I don't believe in ghost or UFOs.

[CUJO_1970]

I'm just saying.

I really don't believe in either one of them. Honestly.

I'm wondering if anyone else here doesn't believe in either of them.

[CUJO_1970]

I'm just saying.

I really don't believe in either one of them. Honestly.

I'm wondering if anyone else here doesn't believe in either of them.

[SeaFireLIV]

Well it`s a bit of a mouthful since you`ve put two rather different subjects into one then you expect a same agreement?

I`m far too open-minded to say that ghosts don`t exist and that UFOs don`t exist. I simply cannot be like others who rock-soldily say, `There`s no such thing` when they themselves have not searched the universe or died and had a look around to see then come back with experience.

[Pirschjaeger]

Ghosts = 99.99% no

UFOs = 99.98% no

Seafire already gave the reasons.

Fritz

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
I'm just saying.

I really don't believe in either one of them. Honestly.

I'm wondering if anyone else here doesn't believe in either of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same.

Also for Allah, Yahweh, Zeus et al.

[HotelBushranger]

Ghosts 99.999...etc% (Factoring in the unknown elements of the universe percentile)

UFO's - 99.99...etc% about UFO's but about 'aliens' in the universe...99.99...% sure.

[Blood_Splat]

Muhahahaha
http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

[roybaty]

Well I'm convinced something is stealing my forks, as I live alone I'm sure no one is misplacing them.

Maybe I have "An Entity" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

[VW-IceFire]

I'm a skeptic but I believe its important to keep an open mind just in case I'm wrong.

[buzzsaw1939]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roybaty:
Well I'm convinced something is stealing my forks, as I live alone I'm sure no one is misplacing them.

Maybe I have "An Entity" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Or a pack rat!.... had that same experiance once, found them under an old truck manifold along with other stuff and mouse turds. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[-HH-Quazi]

Just wait til you take your first ride and then come back and say you don't believe in UFO's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Just wait til you take your first ride and then come back and say you don't believe in UFO's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is it with Aliens and their affinity for the delusional?

[stalkervision]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Just wait til you take your first ride and then come back and say you don't believe in UFO's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and they will probably stick a huge anal probe up his butt just for saying that. Soon he will be able to get HDTV without even using a TV set..! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

[-HH-Quazi]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Just wait til you take your first ride and then come back and say you don't believe in UFO's. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

and they will probably stick a huge anal probe up his butt just for saying that. Soon he will be able to get HDTV without even using a TV set..! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>OOOoooo Deliverance.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[roybaty]

Then weird thing is I've moved twice, and it still keeps happening. I don't think about it much but when I do it's seems pretty damn freaky.

I've lost about 6 in the last year, and 1 so far this year, I'm down to 2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by buzzsaw1939:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roybaty:
Well I'm convinced something is stealing my forks, as I live alone I'm sure no one is misplacing them.

Maybe I have "An Entity" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Or a pack rat!.... had that same experiance once, found them under an old truck manifold along with other stuff and mouse turds. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[buzzsaw1939]

Even after moveing huh?... mmmm..well don't feel bad, I kept looseing socks in the dryer...tell my wife goes to put on a sweater! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

[Low_Flyer_MkIX]

Wanna hear my ghost stories? ...nah, you'd all laugh at me. I know I experienced the inexplicable.

[joeap]

I wouldn't but it's up to you.

[roybaty]

Real or not this freaks me out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRwilKsm3Xk

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roybaty:
Real or not this freaks me out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRwilKsm3Xk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My dad who's the biggest skeptic/cynic on the planet claims he's seen a ghost.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Me, personally I like to wind him up about it.

[stalkervision]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roybaty:
Real or not this freaks me out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRwilKsm3Xk </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seen a ufo with my father and "black helicopters" regularily buzz my house which is smack dab in a ufo "hot spot" and your frecked out! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only thing imo that has saved my behind from a custom extream anal equiupment install is a large stinky case of constant gas caused by a real drippy sinus.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[stalkervision]

i advise you to get more "ruf***e" in your diet.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Enforcer572005]

Um, we already got an ongoing UFO thread/debate on the Texas UFO job. No use on repeating a very complicated and interesting discussion on this one.

As far as ghosts, well, that ghost hunters show on sci fi channel is pretty creepy sometimes, but as long as whatever does all that leaves me the blazes alone, I don't really care.

UFOs are very real. See the thread I mentioned above.

[fabianfred]

I believe in both..

to me it seems entirely logical that amongst the billions of galaxies out there there must be billions of planets with life....so not assuming that we humans are particularly advanced...I reckon there are plenty with higher technology than us...........they just don't want anything to do with us cave-men...not close up anyway...we cannot be trusted not to shoot first and ask questions after....

as for ghosts.......it is a matter of vibrations..... all things vibrate at different rates......just like wireless frequencies....a radio has to be adjusted to hear different frequencies.... a very few people are able to see ghosts because they can attune their frequency to be close to that of the ghosts

some people can see them if perhaps it is a relative or someone close and perhaps the spirit can make a contact with that person

by practising meditation...using drugs or alcohol our frequency can be adjusted so as to be able to see them

heaven, hell and the other realms are right here around us...just that we cannot perceive them......and some meditators etc. can adjust their vibratory rate to seemingly 'visit' those locations

ghosts are actually beings who have died....but not gone on to be reborn according to their karma...but are stuck in an in-between state....either because their death was sudden and they have not yet realised they are dead...or have an unusual atraction to a place....such as being very attached to ones possesions...and unwilling to part from them ...even in death

[Bewolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
I'm just saying.

I really don't believe in either one of them. Honestly.

I'm wondering if anyone else here doesn't believe in either of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not a matter of believing. I could also believe in the big giant Spaghetti Monster and nobody could prove me wrong.

Bad approach.Either it's there, or it's not. Until I haven't seen it with my own eyes or seen proof, there is not a single logical reason for me to believe in this stuff. Just doe snot make sense. Could also believe in fairies and flying mushrooms. Only difference, there is not so much fuzz made about it.

[Pirschjaeger]

Recently there were studies done in the UK that may just shed a lot of light on the ghost phenomenon.

It turns out that wherever ghosts are reported, there are very low sound frequencies. There seems to be a connection. I will try to find some info on it.

It's very interesting.

Fritz

[SeaFireLIV]

The problem with most people is they want the proof shoved in their face. Not just proof, but big massive, titanium proof to come along and slap them around the face throw them about and sit on them.

It makes me wonder what right do we to expect such incredible proof? Is this not what immediately blinds us? How can we begin to understand if we`re not prepared to make some effort on our own behalf?

It`s more like laziness, rather than wanting to know.

Anyway, I was visiting an old museum in my area called the Newarke houses Museum. As I entered I saw a woman in a long black gown with a white neck collar thing and a black head covering type thing. She was just standing to the right in the little garden area by the entrance. I glanced at her, but she didn`t seem to want to be noticed..

I went into the museum and looked about at all the English civil war stuff. Interesting stuff, btw.

On leaving, I asked the lady if the woman in the garden was doing some kind historical re-enactment. She said to me that that was probably the ghost since there`s no lady dressed up in black except her sometimes.

I was shocked.

Every time I pass by I look to see if I can see her again, but I never do now.

There was also another case when i was very young, but that`ll do for now.

Ghost? random woman? Museum trickery? Who knows? but i`m afraid there isn`t going to be any titanium proof to prove it.

[Pirschjaeger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The problem with most people is they want the proof shoved in their face. Not just proof, but big massive, titanium proof to come along and slap them around the face throw them about and sit on them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I prefer explanations.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
It`s more like laziness, rather than wanting to know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The same could be said for those making the claims. I think by saying "It's a ghost, god, or ufo" many who make the claims look no further.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Ghost? random woman? Museum trickery? Who knows? but i`m afraid there isn`t going to be any titanium proof to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting Seafire and even if ghosts do not exist, I would still believe you actually saw it.

Here's why. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound)

The study of infrasound is relatively new but the findings have been really interesting. In studies it has been shown that infrasound can induce visions. If the scientists are right, it's an evolved survival instinct.

I saw a Nat Geo documentary last year about this. A couple scientists in the UK went to places ghosts are often reported and took some readings. It turned out that all these places had a lot of infrasound.

Turn it around in the lab and monitor the brain while playing infrasound, and the results were high anxiety and fear.

Interestingly many animals use infrasound. The tiger for example, roars as it attacks. Why? Because the infrasound in the tiger's roar freezes the victim for a very short time, but long enough for the tiger to get the first strike.

The military has been experimenting with infrasound for years. In the Nat Geo documentary they showed how directed infrasound can take a man down.

Other animals such as elephants use infrasound to communicate over vast distances.

Anyway, don't get me wrong. The infrasound/ghost relation seems to be there but there is nothing conclusive yet.

See, we're not all lazy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Fritz

[buzzsaw1939]

Very interesting post Fritz!.. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[hotspace]

Time to look a 'Pratt Time' lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I believe in both because I've seen both:

1st when I was in Bournemouth last year a group of the buggers flew over the town and was videoed (and seen by me and my other half when walking along the beach)........the video was put up on the Local Papers Web Site and I guess it made the Local News as well, but by that time I was back home.

I've seen a ghost and so have my cats (Oiii, stop laughing now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ))

I live in a house that was built in the 1880's and when me and my old girlfriend at the time moved in my cats would stare at the top of the stairs in unison........so being the fools we were we did our version of 'Most Haunted' or 'Ghost Hunters' or whatever.......however we caught nothing and after awhile we gave up. About 6 months later we were in bed (no we were talking u naughty people) at night with the cats on the bed and the cats started to go mental just fixed in fear looking at the wall which the bed were up against: we saw just outside the bedroom door a figure.......scared the **** out of us and we didn't sleep upstairs for awhile and alway's kept an eye open when the cats went ga ga - thankfully it doesn't happen too much anymore.

I guess you might think the above is **** and I'm just talking the bull?

In 2001 my mother was dying of cancer and all of us apart from 1 brother was there when she died - the brother who wasn't was in Holland at the time and at the time of her death he saw her, she smiled and went. He phoned us up asking if she died, we said 'yes' http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

So I guess UFO's can for the most part be explained, but for me, Ghost's........no.

[Bewolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The problem with most people is they want the proof shoved in their face. Not just proof, but big massive, titanium proof to come along and slap them around the face throw them about and sit on them.

It makes me wonder what right do we to expect such incredible proof? Is this not what immediately blinds us? How can we begin to understand if we`re not prepared to make some effort on our own behalf?

It`s more like laziness, rather than wanting to know.

Anyway, I was visiting an old museum in my area called the Newarke houses Museum. As I entered I saw a woman in a long black gown with a white neck collar thing and a black head covering type thing. She was just standing to the right in the little garden area by the entrance. I glanced at her, but she didn`t seem to want to be noticed..

I went into the museum and looked about at all the English civil war stuff. Interesting stuff, btw.

On leaving, I asked the lady if the woman in the garden was doing some kind historical re-enactment. She said to me that that was probably the ghost since there`s no lady dressed up in black except her sometimes.

I was shocked.

Every time I pass by I look to see if I can see her again, but I never do now.

There was also another case when i was very young, but that`ll do for now.

Ghost? random woman? Museum trickery? Who knows? but i`m afraid there isn`t going to be any titanium proof to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very simple. Because UFOs and Ghosts are nothing more then the Unicorns and Fairies of modern day. In medieval times ppl believed in griffons and dragons as really existing. They got tidbits of infos they could not explain, like dinosaur bones, and made up their stories. So I am sure believing ppl when they report of strange phenomenoms. I hardly buy into their made up explainations about UFOs and Ghosts, though.

*shrugs* I personally thought modern day is a bit more scientificly orientated, but I suppose for soome ppl life and reality as it is is a bit too boring and uninspireing.

[SeaFireLIV]

UFOs are a modern case, but a scientifically-based modern case. With the understanding of space, its vast size and the impossibility of we being the only sentient creature here, UFOs became a possibility, even if what we think we saw were not actually aliens, but optical phenomenon. Ghosts have been believe in for thousands of years. You can`t just sweep the issue of ghosts or UFOs away as just Unicorns or faeries.

So you`re completely wrong there.

[Pirschjaeger]

Although the belief n ghosts goes back ca. 70,000+ years, ufos are nothing new. Evidence of believe in ufos goes back thousands of years.

But it's only evidence of belief.

Fritz

[Bewolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
UFOs are a modern case, but a scientifically-based modern case. With the understanding of space, its vast size and the impossibility of we being the only sentient creature here, UFOs became a possibility, even if what we think we saw were not actually aliens, but optical phenomenon. Ghosts have been believe in for thousands of years. You can`t just sweep the issue of ghosts or UFOs away as just Unicorns or faeries.

So you`re completely wrong there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I do consider it pretty probable there is more life out there. I also actually like that idea. But there is a grace difference between consideration and "believing". And it's an even greater jump to come to the conclusions little green men in all their given forms circle the earth in flying saucers. Hardly convincing but to those that want to have a go at it.

Same with ghosts there. I am sure there are reasons for that phenomenom. Be it mans urge to have the feeling loved ones are still around, hallucinations or indeed ghosts after all.
But eh, there are so many possible explenations that it's a ctually pretty convienient to settle on one idea. Taking ppl's understanding of the world from 70.000 years ago as basis, though, I'd say that's a little bit bold.

You don't by chance also still think the earth is flat, do you? There are such ppl out there, too.

[Blood_Splat]

The fact that we are conscious breathing creatures should be strange in itself. Look around open your mind we are the paranormal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[SeaFireLIV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:


You don't by chance also still think the earth is flat, do you? There are such ppl out there, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, I do. I see it every day, I walk along and the road is always straight. It`s also pretty obvious that a turtle holds it up safely for us too.

Silly boy.

[Bewolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:


You don't by chance also still think the earth is flat, do you? There are such ppl out there, too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, I do. I see it every day, I walk along and the road is always straight. It`s also pretty obvious that a turtle holds it up safely for us too.

Silly boy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do not forget those 4 elephants. Gotta love Pratchett. But I think you got my point.

I am not saying there is nothing out there, or that there are no ghosts at all. But I think the hype around it and the huge "fanbase" is completly artifical by it's very nature.

[Pirschjaeger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blood_Splat:
The fact that we are conscious breathing creatures should be strange in itself. Look around open your mind we are the paranormal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I don't like your altitude.

I resemble that remark.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The problem with most people is they want the proof shoved in their face. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when was the requirement for proof a problem?

A problem for mediums, psychics, theologians etc. no doubt.

Scientific proof is the slayer of deceit.

[SeaFireLIV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The problem with most people is they want the proof shoved in their face. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since when was the requirement for proof a problem?

A problem for mediums, psychics, theologians etc. no doubt.

Scientific proof is the slayer of deceit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you need proof that air exists about and around us?

Do you need proof that you have a brain in your head?

Do you need proof that the universe is enormous and made up of millions of suns?

Do you need proof that the earth is round?

Do you need proof that you`re really here and not a figment of your own imagination and it`s all just a big illusion?

Science `proves` only one level of reality, but not everything.

[SeaFireLIV]

hmmm, now I`m confusing even myself. lol.

[Enforcer572005]

OK, all I'm gonna say here is that there is alot of difference between evidence and proof. You need alot of one to make the other, but the argument is usually over how much evidence it takes to establish proof.

I highly recommend if you are interested in UFO stuff that you check out the interesting thread about the UFOs over Texas on this same forum. There is really no use in posting all those arguments again.......really.

As Fritz can attest, it basically boiled down to whether or not people should, or even be allowed to, discuss UFOs at all due to their non PC nature and society's tendency to scorn anyone who sees anything unusual, no matter how credible or how many they are.

Dismissing something out of hand with no real investigation is not wise. Just because one $20 bill is fake doesn't make them all fake, but I said that on the other thread, so I'll go back home now.

[Bewolf]

I do not see any discussion coming up about wether or not it is allowed to discuss UFOs. We are living in free countries. But, as with any other controversial issue on subjects based more on personal preference and opinion instead of hard facts, heavy Flak from all imaginable directions is for sure to be expected. As this this all is such a highly artificial subject, basicly created out of thin air, mysterious "ufo crashes", consipracy theories, without hard data whatsoever, ppl have nothing to orientate themselves upon but sppeculations. The result...countless different opinions, supported by some comic relief in the lines of "we are the victims!".

It's hard to argue on the basis of simple faith into something.

[danjama]

I didn't believe in UFo's until 2006, when i was at 36000ft in my P47 butt kicker, and a La5 with 2 busted cylinders crawled up behind me ( i say crawled but he was closing in at about 4000ft per/min), and chopped my tail off with his rotor.

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:

Do you need proof that air exists about and around us?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's called Chemistry.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Do you need proof that you have a brain in your head? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

physiology

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Do you need proof that the universe is enormous and made up of millions of suns?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Astronomy

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Do you need proof that the earth is round? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

geology

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Do you need proof that you`re really here and not a figment of your own imagination and it`s all just a big illusion? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Circular reasoning let you down.