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PLANEMAD
05-01-2007, 03:09 PM
i hope they make sh5 with british subs. with ALL the 3d cabins. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

PLANEMAD
05-01-2007, 03:09 PM
i hope they make sh5 with british subs. with ALL the 3d cabins. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

K-Squad
05-01-2007, 03:13 PM
Dude! Yer! British subs in the Mediterranean theatre!

ThornNRazor
05-01-2007, 04:08 PM
I hope they make a nuclear sub game in a fictionalized WWIII setting between the allies
USA, UK, Germany, France, and Italy VS. Russia, China, India, Iran, and N. Korea.

PrivateStra2006
05-01-2007, 04:38 PM
I think that Nuclear subs would not be that much fun and would be to complicated for the player.

Nuclear Subs are mainly computers now and are very complicated to operate hence the long time training for their crew. the Silent hunter sewries is a simulation of sub warfare and to keep with that tradition into the nuclear age would force the player into a world i high tech computers and interface that would be too much for a player that only plays for an hour or so due to other personal commitments (e.g work and or family)

With such an interface the player would quickly complain about the new interface is too complicated and takes their focus away from the kill.

for a nuclear sub based came to work would result in the series moving closewr to arcade and less of a simulation.

Just my thoughts

Cheers

ThornNRazor
05-01-2007, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PrivateStra2006:
I think that Nuclear subs would not be that much fun and would be to complicated for the player.

Nuclear Subs are mainly computers now and are very complicated to operate hence the long time training for their crew. the Silent hunter sewries is a simulation of sub warfare and to keep with that tradition into the nuclear age would force the player into a world i high tech computers and interface that would be too much for a player that only plays for an hour or so due to other personal commitments (e.g work and or family)

With such an interface the player would quickly complain about the new interface is too complicated and takes their focus away from the kill.

for a nuclear sub based came to work would result in the series moving closewr to arcade and less of a simulation.

Just my thoughts

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too complicated for the average player, or too complicated for you?

jmmoric
05-01-2007, 05:43 PM
Either The Great War or a working pacific subsim, like SH II and SH III.

rgds

PrivateStra2006
05-01-2007, 05:44 PM
for the adverage player. i'm to smart to be stumped by the modern naval computers.

ThornNRazor
05-01-2007, 05:48 PM
Aren't you guys getting tired of the same old same old? We need something completely DIFFERENT. TO date, there has NOT been a modern nuclear submarine game with the visuals of SHIV. The only ones we have seen have graphics that date back nearly 15 years or more ago. Dangerous waters graphics are blocky and linear looking. There's no graphics in the game so to speak. The gameplay is so-so, but it is all scripted and scripted events = boring gameplay since it's always the same every single time.

Give us a modern nuclear sub game with a dynamic and random world to play in with graphics at least as good as SHIV! UBIsoft, you can do it!

PrivateStra2006
05-01-2007, 05:56 PM
If we are going to go modern how about a modern carrier group or surface fleet from the major countries of the world.

kboardkowboy
05-01-2007, 05:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThornNRazor:
I hope they make a nuclear sub game in a fictionalized WWIII setting between the allies
USA, UK, Germany, France, and Italy VS. Russia, China, India, Iran, and N. Korea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Seeing the french sold nuke subs to both the libyans and the north koreans as did the russians shouldnt the french be on the opposing team lol

ThornNRazor
05-01-2007, 06:00 PM
That's not a bad idea! Just something different for once! My god, we've been playing Atlantic and Pacific back and forth for years now with the same old subs. A COMPLETE naval wargame would be the bomb, where EVERY class of ship and sub was available. I wouldn't mind doing WWII again if that was an option. I would LOVE to command the Bismarck or an American Aircraft Carrier.

ThornNRazor
05-01-2007, 06:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kboardkowboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThornNRazor:
I hope they make a nuclear sub game in a fictionalized WWIII setting between the allies
USA, UK, Germany, France, and Italy VS. Russia, China, India, Iran, and N. Korea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Seeing the french sold nuke subs to both the libyans and the north koreans as did the russians shouldnt the french be on the opposing team lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No! America has sold weapons to Iraq and Russia as well. Who you sell your old gear to doesn't make you their friend. It just makes you smart since you're getting rid of weapons that you can't afford to keep in stock anymore and weapons that you know the capabilities of.

kboardkowboy
05-01-2007, 06:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThornNRazor:

No! America has sold weapons to Iraq and Russia as well. Who you sell your old gear to doesn't make you their friend. It just makes you smart since you're getting rid of weapons that you can't afford to keep in stock anymore and weapons that you know the capabilities of. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty please i wanna blow the french up for a change instead of saving them lol

PrivateStra2006
05-01-2007, 06:08 PM
A modern game with nuclear subs would just be the same battle grounds but with new hardware.

we would still be fighting in the pacific or the atlantic and going back and forth as the modern warfare game improved.

just a repeate of the same old thing with just a new sub.

ThornNRazor
05-01-2007, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kboardkowboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ThornNRazor:

No! America has sold weapons to Iraq and Russia as well. Who you sell your old gear to doesn't make you their friend. It just makes you smart since you're getting rid of weapons that you can't afford to keep in stock anymore and weapons that you know the capabilities of. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty please i wanna blow the french up for a change instead of saving them lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's WOULD be cool. Have all sides available so that anyone can play as whatever country they want. If you want to blow up France, then by all means go for it. Diversity is key to making a great simulator. Playing just one side all the time is getting a bit old. We always play as Nazi Germans or American all the time. True, this is historic, but who cares about history if we can have a modern war that hasn't been written in stone yet.

vietvettwo
05-01-2007, 10:18 PM
Enjoyed SH3 and am enjoying SH4 but I think the sub sim possibilities are running dry.

WWI sim, the subs didn't accomplish much, the escorts did even worse with only hydrophones to use. You sneak in, fire one or two torpedos, dive to 150 feet and that's pretty much it.

WW2 Sim, What's left to do? I realize that folks from other countries might get some additional enjoyment out of playing for the "home team" as opposed to the US or Germany, but what could they do different?

Cold War or Fiction, very sensor and computer oriented. Forget doing anything on the surface. The game evolves around your sonar 95% of the time and your other sensors 5%. Anti Ship missiles put the engagements out to hundreds of miles. Convoys don't exist. You spend most of your missions either playing tag with another sub or on a sneek and peek mission. If you want to expend a lot of explosive ordnance, this is not the game for you.

I just don't see it, or at least not where I would be willing to shell out money to play. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

Rev1917
05-01-2007, 10:36 PM
If you don't think a nuclear sub game can be fun, you obviously never player Red Storm Rising on one of the old school platforms like commodore 128. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Having said that, I personally like historical WWII navy sims. Another game I wish they'd do a remake of us Great Naval Battles of the North Atlantic. I had incredible fun with that as a kid, and I remember fondly a Sea Lion mod that some of the community had done.

Anyway.

-Scott

Rev1917
05-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Actually, Red Storm rising was a whole lot of fraking fun back in the day. With maximum realism settings in that game, you were identifying ship classes by the acoustic signature.

Very nice to play, I was surprised by how fun it was considering the high tech nature of modern submarine warfare. You'd probably have to do cut scenes of hits, etc for the eye candy bit these days... because you are right, 90% of the action is going to take place underwater or far away.

As for the number one target of modern attack submarines (in a cold war turns WWIII simulation,) its actually going to be other submarines.

Boomer hunting is what you'd probably be engaged in 60% of the time.

-Scott

Silencer_42
05-01-2007, 11:43 PM
I think it is the Brits turn on having a Silent Hunter based on them.

Afterall,

When Britain first, at heaven's command,
Arose from out the azure main,
Arose, arose, arose from out the a-azure main,
This was the charter, the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain:

Rule Britania!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

The nations, not so blest as thee,
Must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
Must in ,must in, must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
While thou shalt flourish, shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.

Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.

Rule Britannia!
Britannia rule the waves.
Brittons never, never, never shall be slaves.

jarmstroHX229
05-01-2007, 11:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vietvettwo:
Enjoyed SH3 and am enjoying SH4 but I think the sub sim possibilities are running dry.

WWI sim, the subs didn't accomplish much, the escorts did even worse with only hydrophones to use. You sneak in, fire one or two torpedos, dive to 150 feet and that's pretty much it.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, quite the reverse. For example in WW1:

German subs:
a) Daring raids into the Brirish battle fleet anchorages.
b) Accompanied the Geman Fleet and cruiser squadrons.
c) A single Geman sub caused the Allied fleet to withdraw to open waters at Gallipoli.
d) Jutland
e) If anything the crisis caused to Britain in merchant shipping losses in WW1 by U-Boats was even more severe than in WW2.
f) Mining
g) ASW measures were steadily developed during the war including (my favorite) Q-Ships.
h) Many famous individual sinkings.

Allied subs:
a) Harrowing actions in the Baltic.
b) The sensational and heroic forays into the Sea of Marmara during the Galipoli actions. (Would truly make a great game on its own).
c) Actions against the occupied ports.
d) The Med.
e) Jutland.

etc etc

Losses of Submarines on both sides were severe.

Phantom_Flyer
05-02-2007, 01:14 AM
How about a WW1 sub game, the ships were so much cooler in WW1, real battleships and cruisers etc :P

I know WW1 the subs were very basic tech, but hopefully not too basic to not make it worthy of a game ?

Cant be arsed to search web sites to research this idea to try make myself look more clever than I am, just an idea off the top of my head based on the wanting of the cool WW1 ships http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bewolf
05-02-2007, 02:47 AM
Would love to see a modern sub sim, but with Diesel Electrics and AIP driven subs, not nuclear ones.



Typ 212 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

VikingGrandad
05-02-2007, 03:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarmstroHX229:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vietvettwo:
WWI sim, the subs didn't accomplish much... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, quite the reverse. For example in WW1:

German subs:
a) Daring raids into the Brirish battle fleet anchorages.
b) Accompanied the Geman Fleet and cruiser squadrons.
c) A single Geman sub caused the Allied fleet to withdraw to open waters at Gallipoli.
d) Jutland
e) If anything the crisis caused to Britain in merchant shipping losses in WW1 by U-Boats was even more severe than in WW2.
f) Mining
g) ASW measures were steadily developed during the war including (my favorite) Q-Ships.
h) Many famous individual sinkings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I'd really enjoy a WW1 U-boat sim.

K-Squad
05-02-2007, 03:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarmstroHX229:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vietvettwo:
Enjoyed SH3 and am enjoying SH4 but I think the sub sim possibilities are running dry.

WWI sim, the subs didn't accomplish much, the escorts did even worse with only hydrophones to use. You sneak in, fire one or two torpedos, dive to 150 feet and that's pretty much it.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, quite the reverse. For example in WW1:

German subs:
a) Daring raids into the Brirish battle fleet anchorages.
b) Accompanied the Geman Fleet and cruiser squadrons.
c) A single Geman sub caused the Allied fleet to withdraw to open waters at Gallipoli.
d) Jutland
e) If anything the crisis caused to Britain in merchant shipping losses in WW1 by U-Boats was even more severe than in WW2.
f) Mining
g) ASW measures were steadily developed during the war including (my favorite) Q-Ships.
h) Many famous individual sinkings.

Allied subs:
a) Harrowing actions in the Baltic.
b) The sensational and heroic forays into the Sea of Marmara during the Galipoli actions. (Would truly make a great game on its own).
c) Actions against the occupied ports.
d) The Med.
e) Jutland.

etc etc

Losses of Submarines on both sides were severe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah cos in WW2 they had anti-sub measures in place in contrast to WW1.

RoughRaider1
05-02-2007, 06:24 AM
I'm not into fantasy games. So there wouldn't be much to do in a modern day sub as they haven't really seen the action that they saw in WWII unless it was to fantasize a fictional war. Even then the action would be slow with less targets.
I'd prefer another in WWII with more control and funtioning hardware.

Harlock1973
05-02-2007, 06:59 AM
I doubt I'd ever play a nuclear sub sim. Even if it had magnetohydrodynamic propulsion and supercavitating torpedoes. I highly recommend looking up the latter, the concept of an underwater rocket that goes 200+ knots is very cool.

Part of the fun of being in a WWII sub sim is that you get to pop the scope and see your target up close and personal. No computers, no firing a torpedo over the horizon, no 30+ knots underwater, it's the limitations of both the offense and defense that make it fun.

In short - Firing a torpedo at 500 yards = fun. Firing a torpedo at 50,000 yards a la mark 48 ADCAP = no fun.

jarmstroHX229
05-02-2007, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VikingGrandad:


I'd really enjoy a WW1 U-boat sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So would I. The submarine was such a new tool of war that the individual sub commanders were very much left to their own devices and encouraged to use their initiative. There were so many heroic individual efforts on both sides and there was also chivalry and honour.

Although not to do with submarines my favorite story is that of The Emden and the escape of the landing party (after it was sunk) through Arabia and Turkey. I cant believe it hasn't been made into a film. Sensational stuff!

davejb1167
05-02-2007, 12:19 PM
Modern day sub - buy, load, run 'Dangerous Waters' which is an excellent sim and very realistic in lots of fun places. It suffers, like all programs, in having far too much going on at once, but it gets closer to the cat and mouse of passive detection and tracking than anything previously.

Modern day/late 20th C, is a 4 way battle where the guy who localises the opposition controls the game board - it's sub v towed array ship v asw air v landbased sensor stations operating distant sensors.... DW let's you play any of the first 3, and you can do a lot of the real life doppler geometry stuff - ASW in this era is a game for good brains, DW is pretty fair at providing the challenge.

Other than that, a Brits in the Med WWII version would probably be some fun, but the real heyday of the sub is WWII Atlantic/Pacific and covered in SH3/4. WWI is definitely a period in which the weapons systems enjoyed a significant success, but the culmination of it all is seen in th Atlantic up to mid WWII, and the Pacific after 1943/4.... I can't help but feel that the only real forward steps now for subs are to produce an even better SH3/4 or DW.

Can't see that happening, I'm afraid. (It's certainly not impossible to do, just unlikely to be seen as a commercially viable option for a good while to come, in my view).

I have to say that were I running UBI, and determined to produce another program in the series, I'd probably swap platforms - do something like 'TF Commander' where you get to run a carrier group during the major Pac battles - I'd be looking, I think, to do a 'Harpoon' game for the Pacific.

akuryon
05-02-2007, 05:51 PM
- Red Storm Rising was fun because it was as unrealistic in the interface and control as SWOTL and Aces of the Pacific were unrealistic but fun flight "sims". Most other nucsubsims were 95% sonar screens... fun only for hardcore

alternative scenarios

- check out PT Boats from Ak...
- remember the attempt of mixing SH2 and Destroyer Command. Great Idea, no comment on excecution

both scenarions seem pretty attractive to me. Rather than high tech cold war or battleship szenarios (limited to rare actions) PT Boats and DDs were the workhorses in WWII and would offer tons of variations in the career modes and alternative duties.

StylesCD
05-02-2007, 06:14 PM
Russia/USSR should have a crack at a silent hunter

Rev1917
05-02-2007, 11:21 PM
I liked very much Great Navl Battles of the North Atlantic, as I've said, so it goes without saying that I'd love to see a remake of this game, or something similar. This means Battleship combat in the North Atlantic during world war one. Something that did happen, at least in the early days of the war.

Essentially it ends up being a similar game to Silent Hunter. You are either playing the Germans trying to disrupt convoys, or you are playing the allies defending the convoys.

I'm not really, tbh, interested in the Aircraft Carrier drive fleet battles in the Pacific during WWII. For a game like this, Harpoon sufficed for me.

A strong point for Red Storm Rising was that the outcome of the war could be effected by your actions. I'd like to see that in other games. I thought it would have worked well in GNBNA, and though I'm not sure how this could be implimented in the Silent Hunter series.

-Scott

jarmstroHX229
05-03-2007, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rev1917:
I liked very much Great Navl Battles of the North Atlantic, as I've said, so it goes without saying that I'd love to see a remake of this game, or something similar. This means Battleship combat in the North Atlantic during world war one. Something that did happen, at least in the early days of the war.


Scott </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were no Battleship actions in the North Atlantic during WW1. There were some early German Cruiser forays to the South Atlantic but thats about it.

All the fleet to fleet action took place cooped up in the North Sea.

horseman1985
05-03-2007, 09:12 AM
I'd go for the Nuc boat sim, since I served on both SSN's and SSBN's altho simming a "Boomer" would be a little boring, all you do is tool around 12 knots or so an wait for orders to launch an pray to God you don't get them, SSN's on the other hand have all kinds of exciting missions SEAL team deployment, Recon, Signal an Electronic Inteligence, Following Russians around (lots of memories of that, altho then it was the Soviet Navy) BTW I own 688(I) hunter/killer, Sub Command, and Dangerous Waters and unfortunately all 3 campaign's are heavily scripted so replayability gets a little low

Haggis45
05-03-2007, 09:28 AM
You'll never see a nuclear sub game for the PC today.(or anytime soon)
Far to politicaly incorrect.
When Janes F-15 was released, there was a mod that allowed the B52's to drop a Nuke. Now of course F-15 was around the first gulf war, that meant Bahgdad was a popular mod! Boy did this thing create a mushroom cloud!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Rev1917
05-03-2007, 09:40 AM
That was my mistake, I meant World War II. It was very late at night, early in the morning when I wrote that, and had just been reading a book on Juteland... which might account for the mistep.

Battleship combat in the North Atlantic during World War 2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-Scott

giovy1975
05-03-2007, 11:14 AM
Before sh5 i would like to have a "working sh4" (i.e. at least another patch)

Propfighter
05-03-2007, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">e) If anything the crisis caused to Britain in merchant shipping losses in WW1 by U-Boats was even more severe than in WW2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. 1/4 of all shipping was being sunk by German U-boats... and they didn't have NEARLY as many subs back then than they did in World War 2. In fact, they sank nearly 5500+ ships if I'm not mistaken. The most victorious was the U-35... it was credited with more than 224 ships sunk for 539,741 tons.

However, I should mention this: A grand majority of that was sunk using the sub's deck gun. The most successful commander of the U-35, Lothar von Arnauld de la Periere, only fired four torpedoes during his entire time on the U-35. Of these, he scored three hits and one miss.

And there comes the fact that, during the first 10 weeks of the war, German U-boats sank over 50 British Cruisers. Not bad for a bunch of primitive boats, eh?

But getting back on topic. I would honestly love to see the British get their turn, and the Italians, Japanese, and perhaps just about every other one. Heck, even the Russians, despite the fact that the Russians had the least successful subs in all the war, even with fairly efficient boats under their command.