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I.S.F-Dixxhead
05-18-2005, 12:59 AM
Alright, it might be a bit off-topic, but really the end of this teaser is awsome ^^
(actually the whole teaser is great, though the end is not so off-topic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/vid_1124509.html?mu=http%3A%2F%2Fstreamingmovies.i gn.com%2Fps3%2Farticle%2F615%2F615511%2Fmgs4_trail er_raw_wmvlow.wmv

I.S.F-Dixxhead
05-18-2005, 12:59 AM
Alright, it might be a bit off-topic, but really the end of this teaser is awsome ^^
(actually the whole teaser is great, though the end is not so off-topic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/714/714044/vid_1124509.html?mu=http%3A%2F%2Fstreamingmovies.i gn.com%2Fps3%2Farticle%2F615%2F615511%2Fmgs4_trail er_raw_wmvlow.wmv

nemt
05-18-2005, 05:09 AM
It might be a bit off-topic, but MGS2 was the worst game ever made, in the history of electronic entertainment.

I.S.F-Dixxhead
05-18-2005, 05:22 AM
Wee, your flaming just burned another Thread http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Because Mgs (2) definatly ain't the worst game ever made, in the history of electronic entertainment.

And if you think so than plz give me some stonefirm arguments ^^
Aww, what the hell. Forget 'bout it, I don't want another "Mgs rulez all", "no, Sc is the best, mgs sucks"- Thread.

Just enjoy that teaser, its hilarious.

DarKA55ASSIN
05-18-2005, 06:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
It might be a bit off-topic, but MGS2 was the worst game ever made, in the history of electronic entertainment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it was one of the best games ever made...

Terrax213
05-18-2005, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
It might be a bit off-topic, but MGS2 was the worst game ever made, in the history of electronic entertainment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This might be a bit off topic, but strike 2 nemt ... 3 strikes and you're out. STOP FLAMING

nemt
05-18-2005, 09:48 AM
Sorry, I didn't realize the Hideo Kojima visited the forum and was offended.

BiG_FaT_SpErM
05-18-2005, 10:12 AM
Actually the worst game ever is Charlie Angels for the Gamcube according to Gamerankings (http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/bestworst.asp) anyway.

And I.S.F-Dixxhead thanks for that nice video, liked the little Splinter Cell spoof in it

ox Se7eN xo
05-18-2005, 10:33 AM
i dont see how something in an Off-Topic forum can be "Off-Topic"

unless of course you mean off-topic in the Thread?

in which case its not off-topic, cos you are just expressing a view on MGS, and seeing as this is an MGS thread, why NOT say that MGS2 sucked?

just my two cents http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Omega_224
05-18-2005, 10:53 AM
It was stated as "Off topic" because it was origionally posted in the Xbox CT discussion forum.

I would say that MGS sucked, but I've never played it. Therefore, saying that would be fanboyish. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


...MGS sucks.

Jason-Bourne223
05-18-2005, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It was stated as "Off topic" because it was origionally posted in the Xbox CT discussion forum.

I would say that MGS sucked, but I've never played it. Therefore, saying that would be fanboyish.


...MGS sucks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL!!! Anyway, the only MGS thing I've played, is the demo for the first one for PS1. Kinda old.

Epicurus_13
05-18-2005, 11:11 AM
Now now, MGS is wonderful, just as Splinter Cell is, in its own way. It may not be "realistic", or make "any ****ing sense", but it's still a blast to play. The over-the-top villains and characters, the crazy, imaginative plotlines, the ninjas, it's got it all.

Comparing it to Splinter Cell is not as easy as it sounds - it's an apples/oranges thing IMO, so please do not form or express any opinions, EVER, and we'll all be happy.

Omega_224
05-18-2005, 11:16 AM
lol. Sarcasm. Man, it's good.

I wasn't exactly comparing the two, I was just stating that I thought MGS sucked. It's my opinion... although it's really true...

Epicurus_13
05-18-2005, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Omega_224:
lol. Sarcasm. Man, it's good.

I wasn't exactly comparing the two, I was just stating that I thought MGS sucked. It's my opinion... although it's really true... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is not.

pavo6503
05-18-2005, 03:21 PM
I gotta say, the Metal Gear series is pretty dang fun. Like the other guy said "over the top villans, ninjas, action, etc. The game is just, ummm, fun! I have played Splinter Cell and honestly I think it tries too hard to be realistic. The gameplay is sloooooow, combat is frustrating, the game (at least the first one) is far too linear to offer any replay value. I DO appreciate the realism in some aspects, Sam's equipment (NV goggles, mini cams, the lockpicking is EXCELLENT!) is represented in a fairly bang-on way, light levels play a much better role than in the MGS series, and Sam can interact better with the environment.
But MGS and all the other MG games(I've played 7 of the 9 available) are just, fun. That's why I play games, for fun. If I really want to experience true steath action, I'll break in to an office building or something. Not only exciting, but I run a REAL risk of arrest, jail time and possibly being shot!
If Ubi Soft took a look at Syphon Filter and MGS then did the ol' "take the best, chuck the rest" attitude they could make a very realistic and very fun Splinter Cell. Adding a little speed to SC would definately make it more fun.

Epicurus_13
05-18-2005, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by pavo6503:
I gotta say, the Metal Gear series is pretty dang fun. Like the other guy said "over the top villans, ninjas, action, etc. The game is just, ummm, fun! I have played Splinter Cell and honestly I think it tries too hard to be realistic. The gameplay is sloooooow, combat is frustrating, the game (at least the first one) is far too linear to offer any replay value. I DO appreciate the realism in some aspects, Sam's equipment (NV goggles, mini cams, the lockpicking is EXCELLENT!) is represented in a fairly bang-on way, light levels play a much better role than in the MGS series, and Sam can interact better with the environment.
But MGS and all the other MG games(I've played 7 of the 9 available) are just, fun. That's why I play games, for fun. If I really want to experience true steath action, I'll break in to an office building or something. Not only exciting, but I run a REAL risk of arrest, jail time and possibly being shot!
If Ubi Soft took a look at Syphon Filter and MGS then did the ol' "take the best, chuck the rest" attitude they could make a very realistic and very fun Splinter Cell. Adding a little speed to SC would definately make it more fun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is probably one of the most eloquent and convincing statements of opinion I have seen on the forums - well put! (though I don't agree 100% - just 97%). I mean, it's not as good as the one where I told the other guy not to bust a menstrual clot, but, well, we all have our brillaint bon mots that simply cannot be topped, right? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seriously, way to state your opinion - I enjoyed your post.

Rathitz
05-18-2005, 10:26 PM
Pavo, no offense but I completely disagree. Splinter Cell's very success depends on its realism. That is what sets it apart from other games in the "genre" is that it is meant to be realistic. It is meant to be a step slower, putting you into a suspenseful situation where tactics and thinking matter. If Ubi were to speed it up and add more arcade "fun" to it, it would most likely ruin the series by disenchanting the rabid fan base it has. Also, then it would be directly competing with games like MGS. Currently, SC is so popular because it is the best in its class of games and doesn't need to compete with completely different games like MGS.

Epicurus_13
05-18-2005, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rathitz:
Pavo, no offense but I completely disagree. Splinter Cell's very success depends on its realism. That is what sets it apart from other games in the "genre" is that it is meant to be realistic. It is meant to be a step slower, putting you into a suspenseful situation where tactics and thinking matter. If Ubi were to speed it up and add more arcade "fun" to it, it would most likely ruin the series by disenchanting the rabid fan base it has. Also, then it would be directly competing with games like MGS. Currently, SC is so popular because it is the best in its class of games and doesn't need to compete with completely different games like MGS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, this is true too - but I don't think that your opinions are contradictory. Mr. Pavo stated that he rates his games based on how much fun he has playing them, and apparently so do you, so I guess it's a matter of personal tastes once we agree on that. I think you both put up good reasons why each one is fun for some people - and thus, why it is important to have BOTH games around.

Okay, I have to go to bed - I sound like a kindergarten teahcer when I'm tipsy (and I keep mentioning that I am.)

I'm packing it in for the night, (no jokes), see you later!

Rathitz
05-18-2005, 11:19 PM
Epicurus, obviously it's a question of taste. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Our differing opinion is that he feels sc would be better at a faster pace and more arcade like similar to mgs and I am giving him the reasons why that would be unfeasible.

jchung
05-19-2005, 07:34 AM
Hey, all of this is just business right? I have never run MG, but from what I understand it sells well. In that respect it is a good game.

SC may be more realistic, but the reality is that it is also not a very realistic game. Some examples:

Sam grabs and picks up a guy while hanging upside down.

Sam breaks a neck while upside down (Take Aikido and you will see why I am saying trust me you cannot do this while upside down).

Buildings that are so dark Sam can walk within two feet of someone and they don't see him.

Sam is soooooo quite that he can walk behind someone and he does not hear him (On the bank level, I followed the guys to get past the laser grids, and as they turned around I just stayed behing them and sneaked right past them, uh yeah, realistic).

The guards have no peripheral vision, nor do they see you hanging from pipes from the ceiling.

You shoot out lights and they don't hear the gun (even a silenced gun still makes too much noise to do this, I have shoot many silenced guns, and they were all still noisy). Heck, even a bb gun would be too loud in many of the situations that Sam is in.

You can get into a firefight with someone, and not everyone one the entire map knows.

There are cameras and lights that you cannot shoot out, and I don't care if the casing on the camera is bulletproof, what, did they make the lens bulletproof too?

When you shoot out a camera, even if nobody heard it, a security guard would come out to check why they are not getting feedback from the camera.

There are more, but you get the point.

I'm not complaining, I like this game, I'm just making the point that even SC is not THAT realistic. Video games are just that, they are nothing more. They are for fun and that is about it.

pavo6503
05-19-2005, 10:03 AM
I agree with jchung. While the political situations in SC are much more realistic, the guards in MGS act more like real people would in a tactical environment. He also makes a good point about noise in SC, guards don't seem to actually react to a sound, it's more like they react to triggers, a trigger being a specific ation that sets them in motion. Guards in MGS see your shadow, hear noises you make, investige suspicious changes in the environment, conduct radio checks and check out guards who don't reply, are very persistent in chasing you, call for help, wake up from a butt kicking pretty quick, hobble if you shoot their legs, stop shooting if you shoot their arms, surrender if you threaten them then try to overpower you if don't act quickly, see blood trails, see footprints, etc, etc, ad nauseum.
Guards in SC, wander along set paths, spot you seemingly randomly with inconsistent superhuman ability, are BLIND in the dark (why is the CIA headquarters so poorly lit anyway?), ignore environmental changes, ignore some odd noises but react to others, ignore shadows, keep moving unhindered no matter where they are shot, can withstand amazing ammounts of bullet wounds but are knocked uncoincious by one or two blows (this is actually VERY difficult in real life to do, anbody who has been in a fight can tell you, I was in a fight that lasted for almost an hour and I have no training as a boxer AND neither of us lost conciousness)nobody bleeds (Sam or the guards), etc etc etc ad nausem.
Snake can change camo and disguises (the old cardboard box technique), can hide in lockers and air vents, actually fist-fights and uses ju-jitsu techniques, crawl, run, walk, swim, hang, do chin-ups, shimmy, operate machinery, he even gets sick if you stay wet for too long. In MGS3 you have to treat specific wounds, eat food, find food, sleep, infiltrate and escape mission areas on your own etc etc etc.
Sam doesn't do so much, except sorta look cool. He doesn't use the environment as well, doesn't crawl on command, you get the point.

Let me explain what I mean by "faster". Faster to me in a game equates with responsiveness. Snake is "fast" because the character does what you tell him to quickly and efficiently. I push left, he turns left right away. I can aim freely, "lock on" or shoot in first person. You can move through the game recklessly and kill everyone or take your time and never be spotted or kill anyone.
Sam's reactions slow down when he has a weapon drawn. It takes less that 3 seconds in real life to get off a killing shot. Sam takes forever to draw a weapon, gunslingers of the old west and today can draw in under a scond and shoot accurately. Gabe Logan in Syphon Filter is the same as Snake. Sam lags behind in most cases.
Honestly, MGS isn't such an arcade game as many SC fans might beleive. It may have a silly plot but it sure does play well.

rikakiah
05-19-2005, 11:47 AM
Just a point about the speed/responsiveness. I would tend to agree--it's VERY annoying at times when you want to run and gun. However, I also think it was a good decision and really enhances Splinter Cell for what it is. It's just another way that it encourages players to remain stealthy. Yes, realistically you COULD run and gun these levels. However, realistically, Sam's missions would be compromised if he did that. The slowed gunplay is a way to make the non-stealth approach more difficult while not making it harder for the stealth approach. This game is designed for a different crowd than those who want to shoot everything all the time. Yes, those people play this game and can have an enjoyable experience, but they aren't rewarded as much as the ones who truly go for stealth.

Different games for different people. I prefer SC's style, personally.

Epicurus_13
05-19-2005, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rikakiah:
Just a point about the speed/responsiveness. I would tend to agree--it's VERY annoying at times when you want to run and gun. However, I also think it was a good decision and really enhances Splinter Cell for what it is. It's just another way that it encourages players to remain stealthy. Yes, realistically you COULD run and gun these levels. However, realistically, Sam's missions would be compromised if he did that. The slowed gunplay is a way to make the non-stealth approach more difficult while not making it harder for the stealth approach. This game is designed for a different crowd than those who want to shoot everything all the time. Yes, those people play this game and can have an enjoyable experience, but they aren't rewarded as much as the ones who truly go for stealth.

Different games for different people. I prefer SC's style, personally. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put, I agree.

Omega_224
05-19-2005, 12:06 PM
Yes. I have to say that my behavior earlier in the thread was below top-notch. I actually have played an MGS game (Twin Snakes, whichever that is) and I have to admit... it was fun. It had a different appeal to it. It wasn't based completely around stealth, but it had some very interesting features that I enjoyed. In fact, I wish that SC had some of the features. I won't go into all the details, but...

The disguising, hiding, shooting... those were all very well implemented into the game.

BiG_FaT_SpErM
05-19-2005, 02:07 PM
I have never played any MGS but after reading pavo6503 post i am very tempted to get MGS3.

DarKA55ASSIN
05-19-2005, 02:14 PM
hounestly you should...its a really great game and i love it nearly almost as much as splintercell but my heart is with mgs just because i find it really fun and once u complete it,it doesnt get boring at all because u can unlock extra things which adds to reply value unlike sc3....its alrite few couple of times then sp gets pretty old,if mgs had co op i think it would be better in sc completely overall

Shadow_Net543
05-19-2005, 05:47 PM
If your going to bother playing any MGS you should REALLY get the first 2 first, just so it doent spoil the experience. You'll be much better off playing them in order of release, and you can get for first 2 for like 5 bucks a peice, in most places.

Anyway, the new edition of MGS3 thats coming out will have some sort of online play.

SplinterCell_37
05-20-2005, 12:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Terrax213:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nemt:
It might be a bit off-topic, but MGS2 was the worst game ever made, in the history of electronic entertainment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This might be a bit off topic, but strike 2 nemt ... 3 strikes and you're out. STOP FLAMING </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean 5 strikes. He's been past three strikes loooong ago http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

You know, nemt, at once your idiotic and foolish attempts at humour were so exasperating they were funny. However, you've now crossed the line into complete and utter idiocy, where you seem to be totally incapable of saying something merely exasperating. Now you just make us laugh hysterically with aggravated irritance and suicide. Don't take that as an incentive to keep going. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

If you don't know what I just, which I wouldn't be suprised, read this:
STOP FLAMING THIS ONCE GREAT FORUM AND GET A LIFE WHICH DOESN'T HAVE STUPID JOKES AT OTHER PEOPLE'S EXPENSE!

'nuff said.

AlexJ2005
05-20-2005, 02:13 AM
MGS3 is One of the greatest games ever made... my opinion... It's as good as SC!

BiG_FaT_SpErM
05-20-2005, 02:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shadow_Net543:
If your going to bother playing any MGS you should REALLY get the first 2 first, just so it doent spoil the experience. You'll be much better off playing them in order of release, and you can get for first 2 for like 5 bucks a peice, in most places. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yesh thats what i was going to do. I have watched a lot of the gameplay recently and the one thing that bothers me is the fixed camera. Is that just annoying

DarKA55ASSIN
05-20-2005, 08:56 AM
na trust me it isnt as annoyin as u think and even if u cant see something properly,u can just switch to first person and look around

pavo6503
05-20-2005, 10:59 AM
Here's another fun stealth action game to try out, Tenchu: Stealth Assassins and Tenchu 2: Birth of the Assassins. Both have amazing ninja action, fairly intelligent guards, pretty realistic plotlines (the very first mission has you killing a merchant for his indiscretions) large environments, multiple paths through each level, Each mission hsa 3 seperate guard setups for mucho replay value, sneak and avoid or kill everybody action, punishes you for killing innocents and being spotted, some BRUTAL stealth kills (the toughest to perform lets you break every joint in a man's body) and the T2 even has a mission editor. This game is AMAZING and I have unfortunately not been able to play the latest releases. The first two games are for the PS1, and new releases are on the PS2. UbiSoft could definately take some notes on this series and add elements to newer SC titles.

Shadow_Net543
05-20-2005, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BiG_FaT_SpErM:
Yesh thats what i was going to do. I have watched a lot of the gameplay recently and the one thing that bothers me is the fixed camera. Is that just annoying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new edition of MGS3 is going to have a new camera, alot like SC's.

Epicurus_13
05-20-2005, 06:17 PM
The MGS4 trailer is very funny - I just saw it and I was impressed by the SC reference - it was really nice of Kojima to have the Sam Fisher look-alike be snake - quite a honor, I'd say!

I think that if MGS doesn't swtich to a SC-style camera, they won't make it. I hope they just admit that SC does it better and swtich from fixed-angle to Movable.