in my opinion buddhism is the best religion

[olaleier]

hi guys

i'm about to convert to buddhism, i'm not very religious otherwise but it was time to make a stand for peace and i figured this was the best way to do it. as i see it all the other religions are about war, killing and domination, buddhist are more like 'nah, screw that noise let's just chill and be brosefs' and that is really something i can relate to.

it's kind of aviation related also because sometimes i feel like flying and that is pretty religious i think

[olaleier]

hi guys

i'm about to convert to buddhism, i'm not very religious otherwise but it was time to make a stand for peace and i figured this was the best way to do it. as i see it all the other religions are about war, killing and domination, buddhist are more like 'nah, screw that noise let's just chill and be brosefs' and that is really something i can relate to.

it's kind of aviation related also because sometimes i feel like flying and that is pretty religious i think

[olaleier]

man that snake is kinda scary i don't mean to offend or anything

sorry in advance for the snake

[MEGILE]

I thought you were dead, or incarcerated or something.

[KDiggity8]

Ola is the norwegian kaiser sose

[olaleier]

sup megile

did you know bgp has had a secret crush on you all this time?

[MEGILE]

I'm a sucker for a red head.

[Loco-S]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Kurbalaganda/magazine_main_032306.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v306/Kurbalaganda/onionmagazine_archive_48a.jpg

[Pirschjaeger]

Nothing wrong with converting.

I used to use XP, now it's Linux.

Life has meaning.

Never forget, what ever you believe, Linux accepts and loves you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Fritz

[Skycat_2]

Some people will do anything to be 'bulletproof' online.

[Korolov1986]

Buddhism is for wimps.

Real men are Pagans.

[BrewsterPilot]

IF this topic was meant seriously (new forum, one never knows...), I'd say atheism is the best religion. The three monotheistic religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) I share nothing with. If I had to choose one to follow, I'd go for Buddhism or Hinduism, perhaps Shintoism.
The reasons are many, please don't make me list them! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Please observer these are my own views, and I seek to offend no-one here.

[Korolov1986]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrewsterPilot:
IF this topic was meant seriously... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heretic.

[BrewsterPilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Korolov1986:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrewsterPilot:
IF this topic was meant seriously... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heretic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
HAHA Spam forum FTW! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

[mortoma]

No offence intended but I have a brother that converted to Buddism and his life has gone to hell in a hand bag ever since. And the mumbo-jumbo he spouts off is for the birds. It's nothing short of idolatry and a false religiion to me. And I have a right to my own opinion. If ya start a thread like this, be ready for others opinions. But I am just being honest and up front ( as always ). I never hold back.

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
No offence intended but I have a brother that converted to Buddism and his life has gone to hell in a hand bag ever since. And the mumbo-jumbo he spouts off is for the birds. It's nothing short of idolatry and a false religiion to me. And I have a right to my own opinion. If ya start a thread like this, be ready for others opinions. But I am just being honest and up front ( as always ). I never hold back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't forget that Buddhism has several different sects...and the two main divisions are Mahayana....that being practised in Tibet, Japan, China, Korea....and Theravada.....in Burma, Thailand, Sri Lanka, Laos, Cambodia....

Although they started from the same place...after the Buddha passed on to Nirvana....differences of opinion on how to interpret and practise the teachings came about.....and as buddhism spread to different countries it became mixed with their original beliefs and corrupted somewhat....

I cannot understand how a true understanding and practise of Buddhism could 'mess somebody up'....perhaps a bad teacher or misunderstanding could be the cause....

[PriK]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
No offence intended but I have a brother that converted to Buddism and his life has gone to hell in a hand bag ever since. And the mumbo-jumbo he spouts off is for the birds. It's nothing short of idolatry and a false religiion to me. And I have a right to my own opinion. If ya start a thread like this, be ready for others opinions. But I am just being honest and up front ( as always ). I never hold back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh great, looks like we have an anti-Buddhite!

Ola is one sharp cookie and if he thinks being Bhud is best you can be damned sure he's done his research.

ola dude, save me a spot beside ya in the rice garden bhuddy!

[LEBillfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Korolov1986:
Buddhism is for wimps.

Real men are Pagans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Religions are nothing more then putting your faith in another "human(s)" to tell you what you should believe in.....

Pick any religion you want, or simply pick faith in God.....Either way, find "your way".

[buzzsaw1939]

I'll drink to that!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

[fabianfred]

Buddhism is not a belief....The Buddha warned against following a teacher just because he is popular, or his teaching sounds good, or any other reason....he said to check out the teaching by personal practise and see if it works....his too...

[olaleier]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PriK:


Oh great, looks like we have an anti-Buddhite!

Ola is one sharp cookie and if he thinks being Bhud is best you can be damned sure he's done his research.

ola dude, save me a spot beside ya in the rice garden bhuddy! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks you PriK.

[Outlaw---]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
It's nothing short of idolatry and a false religiion to me.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To the best of my knowledge, Buddhism in it's purest form (as taught by that guy whose name I can't remember - starts with an S and has lots of consonants IIRC) can't possibly be called idolatrous as there is nothing to worship. Symbols are not necessarily idols.

If it were up to me, I would only allow the term religion to apply to those world views that include at least one deity. Anything else is a way of life.



--Outlaw.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Korolov1986:
Buddhism is for wimps.

Real men are Pagans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Religions are nothing more then putting your faith in another "human(s)" to tell you what you should believe in.....

Pick any religion you want, or simply pick faith in God.....Either way, find "your way". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually paganism, or following the Old Religion of europe has nothing to do with following another human or having anyone tell you what to beleive, it's very much like you said, find your own way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

[Pirschjaeger]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrewsterPilot:
I'd say atheism is the best religion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

No wonder the bible thumpers are upset.

You used the "r" word. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Fritz

[fabianfred]

Often people are mistaken when they see buddhists bowing and prostrating before an image of the Buddha...and think we are worshipping him..

actually one should pay respects to all teachers....and he is the greatest teacher of them all....because of what he endured on his long journey over millions of lifetimes, in order to become a buddha and try to help as many beings as he could find freedom.......the only true freedom........freedom from suffering......Nirvana

Of couse, like all Buddhas, he can only show the way...it is up to us to get up off our backsides and start walking the path http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

[Bearcat99]

I think that that whole issue... what is the best religion ... is so subjective. For me Christianity is the most substantial if you take the history, archeological discoveries and how they relate to OT & NT writings, prophecy and it's fulfillment in history, and the historical Christ etc...

As for what is "best"... well best is such a subjective term... and it is so dependent on what an individual's needs are. For me Christianity answers most of my questions... The who what when where & why & how of it all... but for someone else those answers may not be sufficient.

I do believe that if you look at Chritianity.... at what scripture says.... not what "the church" has said... or done.... and weigh it against other religions... it will hold it's own quite well.

From my vantage point taking it all in and keeping Jesus in the front.... the fact that all his disciples save one died a martyrs death... a true martyr's death.. and the fact that while many folks are willing to die for what they believe to be true... it still happens today... not too many folks are willing to die for something they know to be a lie.. and according to all the men whose writings make up the Greek scriptures.... Jesus healed the sick, made the blind see, the lame walk, fed thousands, walked on water, calmed the seas... even raised the dead.... and finally and most importantly was seen alive after he was killed... not just by one or two or twelve.. but thousands... makes it all a no brainer for me.. No one else has a resume like that..... and here's the other thing... according to his own words and the words of his disciples... if he here in the flesh today... he would not be driving a Benz... wearing a diamond pinky ring, living in a mansion, wearing four figure suits, have his own jet.... etc....

At least thats my take on it.... from what the scriptures said.....

[Outlaw---]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
....at what scripture says.... not what "the church" has said... or done...
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen to that BC. It's depressing to see how some of the major Christian churches have turned so many people away. Note that I'm not excluding the "minor" ones it's just that they don't have the exposure the big guys have. Also, I'm not attempting to minimize the good work that they do, however, I do believe that often times it's in spite of themselves.

I went to a private high school in Baton Rouge, LA that was run by a Baptist Church and I am so thankful that our Bible teacher refused to teach the party line of the church leaders and instead helped us to understand the scripture and have a personal relationship with God. She was able to last 5 years before they ran her off.

--Outlaw.

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I think that that whole issue... what is the best religion ... is so subjective. For me Christianity is the most substantial if you take the history, archeological discoveries and how they relate to OT & NT writings, prophecy and it's fulfillment in history, and the historical Christ etc...

As for what is "best"... well best is such a subjective term... and it is so dependent on what an individual's needs are. For me Christianity answers most of my questions... The who what when where & why & how of it all... but for someone else those answers may not be sufficient.

I do believe that if you look at Chritianity.... at what scripture says.... not what "the church" has said... or done.... and weigh it against other religions... it will hold it's own quite well.

From my vantage point taking it all in and keeping Jesus in the front.... the fact that all his disciples save one died a martyrs death... a true martyr's death.. and the fact that while many folks are willing to die for what they believe to be true... it still happens today... not too many folks are willing to die for something they know to be a lie.. and according to all the men whose writings make up the Greek scriptures.... Jesus healed the sick, made the blind see, the lame walk, fed thousands, walked on water, calmed the seas... even raised the dead.... and finally and most importantly was seen alive after he was killed... not just by one or two or twelve.. but thousands... makes it all a no brainer for me.. No one else has a resume like that..... and here's the other thing... according to his own words and the words of his disciples... if he here in the flesh today... he would not be driving a Benz... wearing a diamond pinky ring, living in a mansion, wearing four figure suits, have his own jet.... etc....

At least thats my take on it.... from what the scriptures said..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those stories about him coming back to life are about as believable as UFOs. I mean, thousands of people have seen UFOs but that doesnt make them true.

Also this is what a martyr looks like,

http://www.adblogarabia.com/wp-content/IraqBombingAd.jpg

Jesus was a Jew not a Christian. He was not about dying so that believers everywhere could inherit eternal life, but about liberating the Jews in his land from Roman occupation. His crucifixion was not about resurrecting the dead but about reviving the living.

His sacrifice was not about heaven or hell for all people in the future, but about release and renewal for the Jewish people in this life. The great conspiracy is the early Christian Church turning his model of liberation from an oppressive state into one of accommodation to the state.

[Outlaw---]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Jesus was a Jew not a Christian.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kind of a meaningless statement don't you think?

--Outlaw.

[joeap]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:


Those stories about him coming back to life are about as believable as UFOs. I mean, thousands of people have seen UFOs but that doesnt make them true.

Also this is what a martyr looks like,

http://www.adblogarabia.com/wp-content/IraqBombingAd.jpg

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would suggest reading some church history. Most martyrs in Christianity died at the hands of others because they would not abandon their beliefs. They did NOT raise their hands against another human being.

The rest is just your speculation. Putting aside resurrection and UFOs that is.

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:


Those stories about him coming back to life are about as believable as UFOs. I mean, thousands of people have seen UFOs but that doesnt make them true.

Also this is what a martyr looks like,

http://www.adblogarabia.com/wp-content/IraqBombingAd.jpg

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would suggest reading some church history. Most martyrs in Christianity died at the hands of others because they would not abandon their beliefs. They did NOT raise their hands against another human being.

The rest is just your speculation. Putting aside resurrection and UFOs that is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luke 19:26-27
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Now the US DoD defines terrorism as "The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Outlaw---:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Jesus was a Jew not a Christian.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kind of a meaningless statement don't you think?

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. The OT was written by Jews, about Jews, For Jews.

The ten commandments? All for the Jewish.. when not a Jew all bets are off.

The NT is Jewdaism for the pagans.

[joeap]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:


Those stories about him coming back to life are about as believable as UFOs. I mean, thousands of people have seen UFOs but that doesnt make them true.

Also this is what a martyr looks like,


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would suggest reading some church history. Most martyrs in Christianity died at the hands of others because they would not abandon their beliefs. They did NOT raise their hands against another human being.

The rest is just your speculation. Putting aside resurrection and UFOs that is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luke 19:26-27
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Now the US DoD defines terrorism as "The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see a pic from an advert, and a misunderstanding of the word "martyr" in the Christian context. I don't have much time gotta go out for a beer or three, I think that quote is from a parable if my quick google is correct.

My point that many peaceful people were killed for their belief and they have nothing in common with those willing to kill stands.

[DuxCorvan]

AHAAAA!

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/spanish1.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/2000AD/batman-family-spanish-inquisition.jpg

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
AHAAAA!

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/spanish1.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v644/2000AD/batman-family-spanish-inquisition.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

see the guy saying....."take them to be fairly tried...and then executed"....that was how it was....already condemned before trial....what is fair for one is not necessarily fair for all

..and for all those in doubt.....Of course UFO's exist...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif...it's just a matter of logic..... only one who has allowed his free will and thinking to be taken away by a belief in a god who made us in his image..and no other....would believe that ours is the only inhabited planet in the whole vast universe

[Bearcat99]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Those stories about him coming back to life are about as believable as UFOs. I mean, thousands of people have seen UFOs but that doesnt make them true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To you... but certainly not to those who took that belief to their graves in the beginning.. those who saw him. Or to those who saw or experienced something that cannot be explained by contemporary means as far as unidentified seemingly extra terrestrial objects.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also this is what a martyr looks like,

http://www.adblogarabia.com/wp-content/IraqBombingAd.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong again.. that is what a suicidal murderer looks like. Regardless to what he believes he is..

<sub>mar·tyr /ˈmÉ‘rtÉ™r/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mahr-ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice.
3. a person who undergoes severe or constant suffering: a martyr to severe headaches.
4. a person who seeks sympathy or attention by feigning or exaggerating pain, deprivation, etc.
–verb (used with object)
5. to make a martyr of, esp. by putting to death.
6. to torment or torture.
[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME marter, OE martyr < LL < LGk mártyr, var. of Gk mártys, mártyros witness; [v.) ME martiren, OE martyrian, deriv. of n.] </sub>

Note that it does not say that it is one who takes his own life and willingly kills as many other people as he can in the process to achieve a political end. Nor does it say one who looses his life in the process of forced conversion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would suggest reading some church history. Most martyrs in Christianity died at the hands of others because they would not abandon their beliefs. They did NOT raise their hands against another human being. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly..... regardless to what came afterwards.... if you look at what the scriptures say... not what the church says... you will find more answers... and see much in the way of why things are the way they are today in the world. When the focus becomes MAN centered.... we get what we have.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Jesus was a Jew not a Christian. He was not about dying so that believers everywhere could inherit eternal life, but about liberating the Jews in his land from Roman occupation. His crucifixion was not about resurrecting the dead but about reviving the living.
His sacrifice was not about heaven or hell for all people in the future, but about release and renewal for the Jewish people in this life. The great conspiracy is the early Christian Church turning his model of liberation from an oppressive state into one of accommodation to the state. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Jesus was a Jew. Bear in mind that Judaism is Christianity concealed.... Christianity is Judasim revealed. From Genesis to Revelation it was always about him. The stories, the prophecies, the construction of the tabernacle, the holy days, the geneologies, it was all about him and what he came here to do. Before you form a solid view on that I challenge you to investigate it thoroughly, and not to just take the sinful deeds of men done in GOD's name as acts of GOD or the things done by the church over the years and look at what the scriptures say.... . The Hebrew & Greek scriptures condemn much of what is done by many segments of the church as a whole over the years and most certainly much of what individuals from pedophile priests to abortion clinic bombers have done over the years... There is a consistancy whitin scripture considering that it was written over a 1500 year period by men and women from all walks of life, from doctors, to kings to priests, to farmers, to fishermen... yet they all say the same thing.

As for the bolded part in your quote above.... I beg to differ. The scriptures themselves from The Torah to the Prophets to the Poems... ALL speak to our kinsman redeemer.

The reason why I can call myself a Christian and mean it.. with all my imperfections, which are many, is that after doing the research and going from The Urantia papers, to the T.O.L.M. to Islam, to Bhuddism, to the more offbeat stuff like Sitchin, Velikovsky ,the Ansars etc... I have found that Christianity when taken in it's full context.... from concealment to revelation, is for me the answer. It doesn't make me perfect. It doesn't change the world magically... but there is no way that anyone who calls himself a Christian and truly believes it can go to the grave sites of veterans and tell their grieving families that IEDs are the hand of GOD, or say that Heath Ledger died because of his Brokeback role.... or that it is their duty to fight for the unborn by killing abortionists.... or call for the execution of the head of state of another government... and say that this is scriptural. Not if the scriptures are taken in the context and in the revelatory order that they were given. Folks who do that are speaking for themselves.... not for GOD. For me the last rule is the same as the last rule for the folks who were there and carried down the message per John 17:20-26 .... not what came down 600 years earlier... In some other scriptures that is not so easily done. You like most of us may believe whatever you wish of course.. that its your right, but it works for me.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101

Luke 19:26-27
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not put that quote in context.... Try reading Luke 19:11-26.

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Those stories about him coming back to life are about as believable as UFOs. I mean, thousands of people have seen UFOs but that doesnt make them true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To you... but certainly not to those who took that belief to their graves in the beginning.. those who saw him. Or to those who saw or experienced something that cannot be explained by contemporary means as far as unidentified seemingly extra terrestrial objects.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also this is what a martyr looks like,

http://www.adblogarabia.com/wp-content/IraqBombingAd.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong again.. that is what a suicidal murderer looks like. Regardless to what he believes he is..

<sub>mar·tyr /ˈmÉ‘rtÉ™r/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mahr-ter] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice.
3. a person who undergoes severe or constant suffering: a martyr to severe headaches.
4. a person who seeks sympathy or attention by feigning or exaggerating pain, deprivation, etc.
–verb (used with object)
5. to make a martyr of, esp. by putting to death.
6. to torment or torture.
[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME marter, OE martyr &lt; LL &lt; LGk mártyr, var. of Gk mártys, mártyros witness; [v.) ME martiren, OE martyrian, deriv. of n.] </sub>

Note that it does not say that it is one who takes his own life and willingly kills as many other people as he can in the process to achieve a political end. Nor does it say one who looses his life in the process of forced conversion.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I would suggest reading some church history. Most martyrs in Christianity died at the hands of others because they would not abandon their beliefs. They did NOT raise their hands against another human being. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly..... regardless to what came afterwards.... if you look at what the scriptures say... not what the church says... you will find more answers... and see much in the way of why things are the way they are today in the world. When the focus becomes MAN centered.... we get what we have.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Jesus was a Jew not a Christian. He was not about dying so that believers everywhere could inherit eternal life, but about liberating the Jews in his land from Roman occupation. His crucifixion was not about resurrecting the dead but about reviving the living.
His sacrifice was not about heaven or hell for all people in the future, but about release and renewal for the Jewish people in this life. The great conspiracy is the early Christian Church turning his model of liberation from an oppressive state into one of accommodation to the state. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Jesus was a Jew. Bear in mind that Judaism is Christianity concealed.... Christianity is Judasim revealed. From Genesis to Revelation it was always about him. The stories, the prophecies, the construction of the tabernacle, the holy days, the geneologies, it was all about him and what he came here to do. Before you form a solid view on that I challenge you to investigate it thoroughly, and not to just take the sinful deeds of men done in GOD's name as acts of GOD or the things done by the church over the years and look at what the scriptures say.... . The Hebrew & Greek scriptures condemn much of what is done by many segments of the church as a whole over the years and most certainly much of what individuals from pedophile priests to abortion clinic bombers have done over the years... There is a consistancy whitin scripture considering that it was written over a 1500 year period by men and women from all walks of life, from doctors, to kings to priests, to farmers, to fishermen... yet they all say the same thing.

As for the bolded part in your quote above.... I beg to differ. The scriptures themselves from The Torah to the Prophets to the Poems... ALL speak to our kinsman redeemer.

The reason why I can call myself a Christian and mean it.. with all my imperfections, which are many, is that after doing the research and going from The Urantia papers, to the T.O.L.M. to Islam, to Bhuddism, to the more offbeat stuff like Sitchin, Velikovsky ,the Ansars etc... I have found that Christianity when taken in it's full context.... from concealment to revelation, is for me the answer. It doesn't make me perfect. It doesn't change the world magically... but there is no way that anyone who calls himself a Christian and truly believes it can go to the grave sites of veterans and tell their grieving families that IEDs are the hand of GOD, or say that Heath Ledger died because of his Brokeback role.... or that it is their duty to fight for the unborn by killing abortionists.... or call for the execution of the head of state of another government... and say that this is scriptural. Not if the scriptures are taken in the context and in the revelatory order that they were given. Folks who do that are speaking for themselves.... not for GOD. For me the last rule is the same as the last rule for the folks who were there and carried down the message per John 17:20-26 .... not what came down 600 years earlier... In some other scriptures that is not so easily done. You like most of us may believe whatever you wish of course.. that its your right, but it works for me.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101

Luke 19:26-27
"I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them-bring them here and kill them in front of me."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not put that quote in context.... Try reading Luke 19:11-26. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok Bearcat you win that round, decent post.

I was just a little irritated by your last post, a simple ""is for me" made all the difference.

I see that your a sane down to earth (heheh) Christian now.

My apologies, if I was offensive in anyway.

-S-

[Bearcat99]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Why not put that quote in context.... Try reading Luke 19:11-26. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok Bearcat you win that round, decent post.

I was just a little irritated by your last post, a simple ""is for me" made all the difference.

I see that your a sane down to earth (heheh) Christian now.

My apologies, if I was offensive in anyway.

-S-[/QUOTE]

NP... If you notice even in the first post I said... for me.. regardless to what I think of religion or what works for me each person has to find that place for themselves.... if I can help them get there by telling them great..... if not.... thats the way it is.. but I certainly would not presume to put my beliefs above anyone elses without qualifying it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[Pirschjaeger]

Religion ,and the choosing of, is the epitome of subjectiveness.

Don't let your Temples of Belief Taxation advise you on other religions or beliefs.

BC is bang on when he says we have to seperate the religious organizations from god if you want to understand.

Fritz

[Blood_Splat]

http://www.myconfinedspace.com/watermark.php?src=wp-content/uploads/2006/06/lol-jesus-brb.jpg

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I think that that whole issue... what is the best religion ... is so subjective. For me Christianity is the most substantial if you take the history, archeological discoveries and how they relate to OT & NT writings, prophecy and it's fulfillment in history, and the historical Christ etc...

As for what is "best"... well best is such a subjective term... and it is so dependent on what an individual's needs are. For me Christianity answers most of my questions... The who what when where & why & how of it all... but for someone else those answers may not be sufficient.

I do believe that if you look at Chritianity.... at what scripture says.... not what "the church" has said... or done.... and weigh it against other religions... it will hold it's own quite well.

From my vantage point taking it all in and keeping Jesus in the front.... the fact that all his disciples save one died a martyrs death... a true martyr's death.. and the fact that while many folks are willing to die for what they believe to be true... it still happens today... not too many folks are willing to die for something they know to be a lie.. and according to all the men whose writings make up the Greek scriptures.... Jesus healed the sick, made the blind see, the lame walk, fed thousands, walked on water, calmed the seas... even raised the dead.... and finally and most importantly was seen alive after he was killed... not just by one or two or twelve.. but thousands... makes it all a no brainer for me.. No one else has a resume like that..... and here's the other thing... according to his own words and the words of his disciples... if he here in the flesh today... he would not be driving a Benz... wearing a diamond pinky ring, living in a mansion, wearing four figure suits, have his own jet.... etc....

At least thats my take on it.... from what the scriptures said..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like your viewpoint and wish more "Christians" thought that way. For me, I knew pretty early on when being dragged off to "Church of Christ" every sunday that something didn't add up, lol. Then I started studying religion, the more I studied the more I realized that "modern" christianity is about as far from any real truth as you could get. Christ in the church disappeared not even a hundred years after he was dead. It boggles the mind that the cristians talk about thier "persecution" so much and it took them about 30 seconds after they got some power to turn around and persecute those who were there before them. I find Christ interesting as a person and most likely a Buddha, but with any research into the pagan religions of europe you will see the christian faith as it is practiced was almost completely "borrowed" from pagan practice in an effort to facilitate conversion. Heck, the biggest christian holiday, christmas, is celebrated on practically the same day as the pagan holiday Yule. Christ is depicted with the little lamb in the manger, how many lambs do you know that were born in the middle of winter? The holiday was intentionally moved to convert. I laugh a good laugh when people say the king james version of the bible is the one you should follow. King James was well known as a historical revisionist. His translations were almost purely political. Don't even get me started on that mistranslation "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", lol. Now don't take me the wrong way, I don't mean to bash any "true" christians, those that beleive in what christ taught and could tell the "church" to go to hell, you guys are cool in my book, it the blind followers that really make me laugh, they know almost nothing about the history surrounding what went on.

[Bearcat99]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
I like your viewpoint and wish more "Christians" thought that way. For me, I knew pretty early on when being dragged off to "Church of Christ" every sunday that something didn't add up, lol. Then I started studying religion, the more I studied the more I realized that "modern" christianity is about as far from any real truth as you could get. Christ in the church disappeared not even a hundred years after he was dead. It boggles the mind that the cristians talk about thier "persecution" so much and it took them about 30 seconds after they got some power to turn around and persecute those who were there before them. I find Christ interesting as a person and most likely a Buddha, but with any research into the pagan religions of europe you will see the christian faith as it is practiced was almost completely "borrowed" from pagan practice in an effort to facilitate conversion. Heck, the biggest christian holiday, christmas, is celebrated on practically the same day as the pagan holiday Yule. Christ is depicted with the little lamb in the manger, how many lambs do you know that were born in the middle of winter? The holiday was intentionally moved to convert. I laugh a good laugh when people say the king james version of the bible is the one you should follow. King James was well known as a historical revisionist. His translations were almost purely political. Don't even get me started on that mistranslation "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", lol. Now don't take me the wrong way, I don't mean to bash any "true" christians, those that beleive in what christ taught and could tell the "church" to go to hell, you guys are cool in my book, it the blind followers that really make me laugh, they know almost nothing about the history surrounding what went on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes well Paul did say that the spirit of Anti Christ was "even now among you". Don't get me wrong.. I do sincerely believe that Jesus was who he said he was... and is truly the only way. But my belief in that as a fact does not give me license to become what I detest the most. I believe that Jesus himself stated in Mark 6:8-11,Luke 9:3-5 and Paul demonstrated in Acts 13:49-51 the proper way to handle people who disregard the message you give as a Christian.

... and He instructed them that they should take nothing for their journey , except a mere staff -no bread , no bag , no money in their belt -but to wear sandals ; and He added, "Do not put on two tunics . And He said to them, "Wherever you enter a house , stay there until you leave town ."Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there , shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."

He didn't say go and chop off their heads or burn them at the stake if they don't believe. He didn't say go and steal their land and almost exterminate them, he said nothing about burning oil, blowing them up, condemning them to eternal hellfire, torturing them until they convert etc.... Yet all that and more have been done in GOD's name... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif and yes you are right about much of what the church does with it's "tradition" basically making the word of GOD to no effect.. but that does not negate the true message that is there in spite of "the church". I think C.S. Lewis said it very well.. "One of the worse things about Christianity is all the Christians..." The job of the Christian is to simply tell them. I have found that people will either believe or not based more on how they see me act over the long haul than what I say in my most inspired moments.

But hey.. I don't want to hijack this thread into a sermon any more than I already have... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif so I am backing out....

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
The holiday was intentionally moved to convert. I laugh a good laugh when people say the king james version of the bible is the one you should follow. King James was well known as a historical revisionist. His translations were almost purely political. Don't even get me started on that mistranslation "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live", lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was going to mention the biblical translations (revisions), but decided otherwise.

The mistranslations, revisions, arbitrary selection of books, inconcistencies, and anachronistic stories, is a whole Topic all in itself... even before we begin to discuss theology.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Hey BC, I like that Lewis quote. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw just a few weeks ago. It was a quote from Ghandi, "I like your Christ, I do not like your christians, they are very unlike christ."

[fabianfred]

The Buddhists recognize jesus as a Boddhisatva...( one on the long path of perfecting himself to evenually become a Buddha)

..and before it was ransacked by the invading chinese, Tibet had evidence that jesus spent some time there, studying buddhism, during his 'long period in the wilderness'

[Friendly_flyer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Bear in mind that Judaism is Christianity concealed.... Christianity is Judasim revealed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Jews have a thing or two to say about that.

[SeaFireLIV]

Nice one, bearcat! I know about all this and can even waffle off the same stuff, but you`re a better man than me to do it.

[SeaFireLIV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
The Buddhists recognize jesus as a Boddhisatva...( one on the long path of perfecting himself to evenually become a Buddha)

..and before it was ransacked by the invading chinese, Tibet had evidence that jesus spent some time there, studying buddhism, during his 'long period in the wilderness' </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, this is the second non-Christian religion I`ve heard of that acknowledges Jesus as a prophet...

[Friendly_flyer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Interesting, this is the second non-Christian religion I`ve heard of that acknowledges Jesus as a prophet... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't seem that amazing to me. Christianity is the worlds most influential religion by far, and Jesus' teachings are of the nice and benign sort.

[Outlaw---]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
No. The OT was written by Jews, about Jews, For Jews.

The ten commandments? All for the Jewish.. when not a Jew all bets are off.

The NT is Jewdaism for the pagans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a meaningless statement b/c before Christ died there were no Christians, so of course he was Jewish.

--Outlaw.

[SeaFireLIV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Bear in mind that Judaism is Christianity concealed.... Christianity is Judasim revealed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Jews have a thing or two to say about that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, the jews don`t believe in the New testament do they? just the old.

this surprised me first when I heard it, but recalling the words of the bible, it was said that Jesus would never be accepted by his own kind... and that continues today I guess.

[Badsight-]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">es, the jews don`t believe in the New testament do they? just the old. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

certian jews dont even accept the prophet books , just the Torah

there isnt any more jews left - you cannot follow judaisim as it was started without the temple

modern jewdaisim started in babylon after the first disapora - when the temple got wasted

it was the increasing of laws to make up for the lack of a temple

[Friendly_flyer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
yes, the jews don`t believe in the New testament do they? just the old. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not really what I meant.

Rant on:
Claiming that Judaism is sort of an obfuscated Christianity is an extremely arrogant Christian chauvinist view. Jews are not Christians, in any form. Nor will Jews readily convert to Christianity under even the most extreme conditions. A millennium of anti-Semitism in Europe reaching high tide in the horrors of Nazi Germany should have told us as much. Faced with the closest thing to Gehenna we humans are likely to produce, they remained stubbornly Jewish.

Yet for a certain brand of Christianity, it's common to believe that Jews are really "Christians with a slight misunderstanding of the scripture". These people makes scenarios where the final days battles will be fought in the holy lands with "christianized Jews" and Christians against the Hordes of Darkness (or whatever). The Israelis (and most Jews) are sick and tired of being presumed to be "almost Christians" by these groups, and even more by the same breathing down their neck to fulfil Christian (i.e. non-Jewish) prophesies.

Rant off.

From a teological point of view it may be claimed that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. The opposite is not true.

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:



Yet for a certain brand of Christianity, it's common to believe that Jews are really "Christians with a slight misunderstanding of the scripture". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point. Historically anti-semitism has found a home with the Christian right, but there also the fundamentalist (literal bible) Christians who see the Jews as God's people.

[DuxCorvan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BrewsterPilot:
I'd say atheism is the best religion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is not a belief, nor a system of beliefs, nor an ideology.

Atheism is simply not believing. Lack of a religion. I'm an atheist, for I KNOW -this is, I'm utterly convinced beyond doubt -contrarily to agnostics- that there is no supernatural.

I don't try to convince anyone of this, nor I think I should, for everyone must have his/her own way to cope with fear-of-death / hope-for-tomorrow / meaning-of-life / understanding-of-cosmos.

Being compassionate and understanding towards others is enough for me, and I don't need a reward nor a threat to be a moral man.

I don't need an immortal soul to be a moral man.

That's lucky, for I don't have one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

"I don't believe in atheism." -Hawkeye Pierce

[Charos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Korolov1986:
Buddhism is for wimps.

Real men are Pagans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Religions are nothing more then putting your faith in another "human(s)" to tell you what you should believe in.....

Pick any religion you want, or simply pick faith in God.....Either way, find "your way". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually paganism, or following the Old Religion of europe has nothing to do with following another human or having anyone tell you what to beleive, it's very much like you said, find your own way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Indeed the way of Wyrd is popularly characterized by what it isnt IE: not one the current BIG 3.

Wyrd, Shinto and Tao the BIG 3 of old, a time before man decided to part company with nature.

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Atheism is simply not believing. Lack of a religion. I'm an atheist, for I KNOW -this is, I'm utterly convinced beyond doubt -contrarily to agnostics- that there is no supernatural.

I don't need an immortal soul to be a moral man.

That's lucky, for I don't have one. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2601013236/m/8961099236/p/2

a lot of those ghosts I mention in my post were atheists....because when they died they just expected the lights to go out and...that it...finish...... so they are rather lost...not knowing why they still exist...or where to go..

So..I suppose you think it is pure chance which decides whether we are born rich or poor/ugly or beautiful/stupid or clever/healthy or sickly...

I know it is a result of past karma...which bears its fruit in this life.....just as if you sow rice you cannot reap apples....if you create positive karma you will reap the rewards..or negative you will suffer the consequences

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Korolov1986:
Buddhism is for wimps.

Real men are Pagans. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Religions are nothing more then putting your faith in another "human(s)" to tell you what you should believe in.....

Pick any religion you want, or simply pick faith in God.....Either way, find "your way". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually paganism, or following the Old Religion of europe has nothing to do with following another human or having anyone tell you what to beleive, it's very much like you said, find your own way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Indeed the way of Wyrd is popularly characterized by what it isnt IE: not one the current BIG 3.

Wyrd, Shinto and Tao the BIG 3 of old, a time before man decided to part company with nature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

QFT

Tao has inspired me a lot as well.

[Bearcat99]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
yes, the jews don`t believe in the New testament do they? just the old. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not really what I meant.

Rant on:
Claiming that Judaism is sort of an obfuscated Christianity is an extremely arrogant Christian chauvinist view. Jews are not Christians, in any form. Nor will Jews readily convert to Christianity under even the most extreme conditions. A millennium of anti-Semitism in Europe reaching high tide in the horrors of Nazi Germany should have told us as much. Faced with the closest thing to Gehenna we humans are likely to produce, they remained stubbornly Jewish.

Yet for a certain brand of Christianity, it's common to believe that Jews are really "Christians with a slight misunderstanding of the scripture". These people makes scenarios where the final days battles will be fought in the holy lands with "christianized Jews" and Christians against the Hordes of Darkness (or whatever). The Israelis (and most Jews) are sick and tired of being presumed to be "almost Christians" by these groups, and even more by the same breathing down their neck to fulfil Christian (i.e. non-Jewish) prophesies.
Rant off.

From a teological point of view it may be claimed that Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. The opposite is not true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said that.... I said that Judaism was Christianity concealed... and Christianity was Judaism revealed.... the fact that there were people even in Jesus' day who did not believe that he was the prophesised Messiah does not change what he said about himself or what his followers believed about him based on the things thy were eyewitnesses to.. It is not for me to debate the issue with you or "rant" about your not seeing what I see. That is of course your prerogative. That Jesus was not only a Jew but a devout Jew is a fact. That Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism is also a fact... IF as Jesus himself and other NT writers along with some of the Hebrew prophets (Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel,Zechariah,Malachi to name a few .. and I could go on...) spoke about him then the seeds of what he taught.. which became early Christianity.. can indeed be found in the old testament. Many of the old Jewish traditions from the construction of the Tabernacle to many of the holidays are shadows of jesus. As for Jews not being Christians... well there are thousands of Jews who DO believe that Jesus IS the Jewish Messiah.... Does that make it true? Depends on where you are.... where I am at.. it is true.... if that makes you angry then there is nothing I can do about that... but don't take it personal.... I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours.... and there are idiots in every faith who give their faith a very bad name... EVERY faith...

[ElAurens]

Ola...

I quote from the writings of Nichiren Daishonin:

"Life is limited, we must not begrudge it. What we should ultimately aspire to is the Buddha land."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
.... and there are idiots in every faith who give their faith a very bad name... EVERY faith... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is a big problem......because people like to judge a religion upon its 'so-called' adherents...which is wrong...

seeing monks acting badly ...you cannot blame the religion..........monks are just people...some good, some bad.........I don't believe there is any religion which teaches to kill and destroy....but people like to point at the moslems and say why do they always look for trouble.........
of course those violent men are not a good example of their religion...they are just hiding behind it and using it as an excuse to make themselves feel important and justify their terrorist activities...they are not in the slightest bit religious as they have corrupted their interpretation of their faith to suit their own requirements

[Badsight-]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they are not in the slightest bit religious as they have corrupted their interpretation of their faith to suit their own requirements </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
the difference is tho that islam makes allowences for violence to be used , by its adherants

under certian conditions , your allowed to butcher your fellow man & still be in Allahs good books , rewarded even

[Charos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they are not in the slightest bit religious as they have corrupted their interpretation of their faith to suit their own requirements </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
the difference is tho that islam makes allowences for violence to be used , by its adherants

under certian conditions , your allowed to butcher your fellow man & still be in Allahs good books , rewarded even </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A little like the Inquisition/Crusade's perhaps.

[Badsight-]

"swords into plowshares"

"live by the sword , you will die by the sword"

there is no allowence for christians to use violence - none . they have to abide by the laws in whatever country they find themselves in

the koran however espouses war to "protect" islamic lands . Allah wont do this himself , & allows his followers to learn how to kill other people

[Charos]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
"swords into plowshares"

"live by the sword , you will die by the sword"

there is no allowence for christians to use violence - none . they have to abide by the laws in whatever country they find themselves in

the koran however espouses war to "protect" islamic lands . Allah wont do this himself , & allows his followers to learn how to kill other people </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Clearly then if history be the judge it would find the sword a lifelong companion of the pius
and thereby have no recourse but to condemn them to death.

[Friendly_flyer]

Hi Bearcat!

No, I'm not angry. After all I'm a die-hard atheist, to me this is a hypothetical discussion about a fictional topic.

I did not fully get your point about "Judaism is Christianity concealed". Now that you have taken time to explain your position, I see that you are not one of those who think Jews are rally Christians. Sorry about misunderstanding what you wrote.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
well there are thousands of Jews who DO believe that Jesus IS the Jewish Messiah.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Jewish concept of the Messiah is not quite the same as the Christian one. A Messiah in Judaism is a powerful figure of the David line, not the son of God. Depending on the brand of Judaism, there can be from one to thousands of Messiahs. The crux of Christianity is believing that Jesus was the Gods son, all neatly summed up in Joh.3-16, so believing that Jesus was a Messiah doesn't make the Christians even by a long shot. Those believing Jesus was a Messiah are those believing each generation has one. Not only Jesus, but a good heap of people, from Alexander the Great to Menachem Mendel Schneerson who died in 1994 has been seen as Messiahs. Here's Wikipedias list of possible Jewish Messiah candidates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah_claimants

As for there being idiots in every faith we all know it's true (there are idiot atheists too). The problems start when those idiots start to act on their conviction. The ones making Israelis less than pleased, are the groups who sponsor causes that seem to bring about their end-of-days scenario, including an all out war across Israeli territory. Israel has enough problems with crackpot groups and bad
neighbour relations as it is.

[fabianfred]

as i said...I don't believe any religion actually tells people to kill others......or it didn't originally.....but now people have twisted and corrupted the teachings...or mistranslated them for their own purposes....

anyway....all killing is bad...and will result in suffering for the offender....those fundamentalists who believe they will go straight to heaven by murdering people....even enemies of their faith....are in for a big shock....they will go staight to hell....do not pass go...do not collect...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

to quote Albert Einstein..."violence is attractive to those of low morals.."

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Trust me, you don't have to tell a pagan about idiots making your faith look bad, lol.

[DuxCorvan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
So..I suppose you think it is pure chance which decides whether we are born rich or poor/ugly or beautiful/stupid or clever/healthy or sickly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think it is because of a chain of logical causes and effects. I'm ugly because my ugly parents decided to couple and have a genetically ugly son, and I ate pizza for years instead of jogging. I'm poor because my poor parents coupled together, had a son, and left him... nothing.

Don't worry about me. I know exactly what to do if you are right and lights don't go out when I die -good news after all. I'll go visit you while you are vibrating or whatever, and remind you you'll have to play Il-2 in an overheating laptop with a mouse in your next life for using d*mn hacks that spoiled your Oleg-karma.

All due respect, Fabian, Buddhism is a neat and wise philosophy, but makes a quite less-than-brilliant religion.

Seriously, world population has doubled in the last decades; if souls migrate from the body of the deceased to newborn babies, whence have migrated the souls of the 3.000.000.000 people that never existed before? Is there a factory of souls there? And if karma decides our starting point every time, what decides that I'm poor or rich, if I have one of those 3.000.000.000 new souls?

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">to quote Albert Einstein..."violence is attractive to those of low morals.." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The recent assassination of a terrorist leader begs to differ

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
So..I suppose you think it is pure chance which decides whether we are born rich or poor/ugly or beautiful/stupid or clever/healthy or sickly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think it is because of a chain of logical causes and effects. I'm ugly because my ugly parents decided to couple and have a genetically ugly son, and I ate pizza for years instead of jogging. I'm poor because my poor parents coupled together, had a son, and left him... nothing.

Don't worry about me. I know exactly what to do if you are right and lights don't go out when I die -good news after all. I'll go visit you while you are vibrating or whatever, and remind you you'll have to play Il-2 in an overheating laptop with a mouse in your next life for using d*mn hacks that spoiled your Oleg-karma.

All due respect, Fabian, Buddhism is a neat and wise philosophy, but makes a quite less-than-brilliant religion.

Seriously, world population has doubled in the last decades; if souls migrate from the body of the deceased to newborn babies, whence have migrated the souls of the 3.000.000.000 people that never existed before? Is there a factory of souls there? And if karma decides our starting point every time, what decides that I'm poor or rich, if I have one of those 3.000.000.000 new souls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your not ugly dux http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Take up cycling/jogging, lose those pounds. You'll be fine.

Seriously no one bar people with congenital deformities (even these can be fixed now) and a small minority are ugly with a capital U. You just have to take a little pride in your appearance. It goes a long way.

[Low_Flyer_MkIX]

I had a Belorussian friend who always responded to questions about his religion by tapping his chest and saying "It belongs in here. Not out there." Whether it was a stock response from living in the old USSR or not I never found out, but always liked that way of looking at it.

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
So..I suppose you think it is pure chance which decides whether we are born rich or poor/ugly or beautiful/stupid or clever/healthy or sickly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think it is because of a chain of logical causes and effects. I'm ugly because my ugly parents decided to couple and have a genetically ugly son, and I ate pizza for years instead of jogging. I'm poor because my poor parents coupled together, had a son, and left him... nothing.

Don't worry about me. I know exactly what to do if you are right and lights don't go out when I die -good news after all. I'll go visit you while you are vibrating or whatever, and remind you you'll have to play Il-2 in an overheating laptop with a mouse in your next life for using d*mn hacks that spoiled your Oleg-karma.

All due respect, Fabian, Buddhism is a neat and wise philosophy, but makes a quite less-than-brilliant religion.

Seriously, world population has doubled in the last decades; if souls migrate from the body of the deceased to newborn babies, whence have migrated the souls of the 3.000.000.000 people that never existed before? Is there a factory of souls there? And if karma decides our starting point every time, what decides that I'm poor or rich, if I have one of those 3.000.000.000 new souls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that some things are outside of our comprehension....certainly whilst we are in our present form ......things like where the universe came from and where mankind came from etc.
the Buddha warned about going mad by thinking about such impossible questions...instead of using our limited time more wisely by working towards our enlightenment...

whilst attaining enlightenment he spent some time looking back at the past lives of beings...and how the law of karma worked its way...back and back...back through millions of lifetimes in various forms.... and he declared that "a starting point is not evident..."

basically meaning that the past is infinite..as is the future.....

so all the beings in various forms have been around a long time...no bank of new souls....just changing form as their karma takes them....

the Buddha once bent and picked up a little dust on his fingernail...and asked his companions to compare it with the whole earth.....a fraction or percentage could not be reckoned....he said it compared beings born in the human realm compared to those in states of woe....(meaning animals/hells/ghosts etc.)

so, some people die and return as humans...the lucky few...many go to the hell/animal/ghost realms....a few go to the heaven realms...and upon the end of a lifetime in a heaven realm of millions of our years then are reborn according to their karma in human/animal/hell etc. (in the lowest of the heaven realms ..one night and one day is equal to 50 of our years...and a lifetime is of thousands of their years)

I have never considered buddhism to be a religion in the ordinary sense...because the Buddha didn't start a religion......he re-discovered the truth, the natural law of karma and about nirvana.........truths which were there all the time, but had been forgotten and lost to us......and they are too profound for any but a Buddha to discover and teach..

western science does not recognise karma...so it has to look for other explanations to account for things like health/intelligence/beauty/etc...and it chooses to put the blame upon genetics....which in fact is only a tool that karma uses for some of its effects

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">to quote Albert Einstein..."violence is attractive to those of low morals.." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The recent assassination of a terrorist leader begs to differ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

why?
you mean it is morally right to kill someone you believe to be wrong.......no...all killing is wrong

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
So..I suppose you think it is pure chance which decides whether we are born rich or poor/ugly or beautiful/stupid or clever/healthy or sickly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I think it is because of a chain of logical causes and effects. I'm ugly because my ugly parents decided to couple and have a genetically ugly son, and I ate pizza for years instead of jogging. I'm poor because my poor parents coupled together, had a son, and left him... nothing.

Don't worry about me. I know exactly what to do if you are right and lights don't go out when I die -good news after all. I'll go visit you while you are vibrating or whatever, and remind you you'll have to play Il-2 in an overheating laptop with a mouse in your next life for using d*mn hacks that spoiled your Oleg-karma.

All due respect, Fabian, Buddhism is a neat and wise philosophy, but makes a quite less-than-brilliant religion.

Seriously, world population has doubled in the last decades; if souls migrate from the body of the deceased to newborn babies, whence have migrated the souls of the 3.000.000.000 people that never existed before? Is there a factory of souls there? And if karma decides our starting point every time, what decides that I'm poor or rich, if I have one of those 3.000.000.000 new souls? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that some things are outside of our comprehension....certainly whilst we are in our present form ......things like where the universe came from and where mankind came from etc.
the Buddha warned about going mad by thinking about such impossible questions...instead of using our limited time more wisely by working towards our enlightenment...

whilst attaining enlightenment he spent some time looking back at the past lives of beings...and how the law of karma worked its way...back and back...back through millions of lifetimes in various forms.... and he declared that "a starting point is not evident..."

basically meaning that the past is infinite..as is the future.....

so all the beings in various forms have been around a long time...no bank of new souls....just changing form as their karma takes them....

the Buddha once bent and picked up a little dust on his fingernail...and asked his companions to compare it with the whole earth.....a fraction or percentage could not be reckoned....he said it compared beings born in the human realm compared to those in states of woe....(meaning animals/hells/ghosts etc.)

so, some people die and return as humans...the lucky few...many go to the hell/animal/ghost realms....a few go to the heaven realms...and upon the end of a lifetime in a heaven realm of millions of our years then are reborn according to their karma in human/animal/hell etc. (in the lowest of the heaven realms ..one night and one day is equal to 50 of our years...and a lifetime is of thousands of their years)

I have never considered buddhism to be a religion in the ordinary sense...because the Buddha didn't start a religion......he re-discovered the truth, the natural law of karma and about nirvana.........truths which were there all the time, but had been forgotten and lost to us......and they are too profound for any but a Buddha to discover and teach..

western science does not recognise karma...so it has to look for other explanations to account for things like health/intelligence/beauty/etc...and it chooses to put the blame upon genetics....which in fact is only a tool that karma uses for some of its effects </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The entire universe is deterministic, what is going to happen is already set in motion.

If you knew how every molecule in this universe reacted in relation to others, you could accurately predict the future.

Kind of invalidates karma does it not?

Also I have a problem with the idea of good karma leads to being born with good looks. This IMO is one of the most shallow things I have ever heard. Also seeing as you cannot remember your past life, I cannot see how you can be held accountable for your actions in that past life. If your memory is erased, you are effectively a different person. A new slate.

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:

The entire universe is deterministic, what is going to happen is already set in motion.

If you knew how every molecule in this universe reacted in relation to others, you could accurately predict the future.

Kind of invalidates karma does it not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is your view...to which you are entitled...but that is the same as the Hindu misconception of karma...that all is predetermined and bound to happen.....

that is an incorrect view of karma...one which the buddha tried to teach was not the truth....to those who would listen

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:

The entire universe is deterministic, what is going to happen is already set in motion.

If you knew how every molecule in this universe reacted in relation to others, you could accurately predict the future.

Kind of invalidates karma does it not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that is your view...to which you are entitled...but that is the same as the Hindu misconception of karma...that all is predetermined and bound to happen.....

that is an incorrect view of karma...one which the buddha tried to teach was not the truth....to those who would listen </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally because I choose to believe science, I'll go with the Hindus. Although I swing between full on determinism and casual determinism. The later being less scary for me.

Can you offer a retort to my other problems with it as well?

"Also I have a problem with the idea of good karma leads to being born with good looks. This IMO is one of the most shallow things I have ever heard. Also seeing as you cannot remember your past life, I cannot see how you can be held accountable for your actions in that past life. If your memory is erased, you are effectively a different person. A new slate."

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Also I have a problem with the idea of good karma leads to being born with good looks. This IMO is one of the most shallow things I have ever heard. Also seeing as you cannot remember your past life, I cannot see how you can be held accountable for your actions in that past life. If your memory is erased, you are effectively a different person. A new slate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just because we have no memory of our past existences doesn't mean that we started afresh in each life...there are some who are able to see their past lives.....only a few to be sure...and some can even see the past lives of other beings....... never heard of the American mystic Edgar Cayce...or do you only believe possible what you yourself can do and see?

[fabianfred]

hey look at our post counts

yours is 2777 and mine is 1110...we must have a karmic connection....lol

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Also I have a problem with the idea of good karma leads to being born with good looks. This IMO is one of the most shallow things I have ever heard. Also seeing as you cannot remember your past life, I cannot see how you can be held accountable for your actions in that past life. If your memory is erased, you are effectively a different person. A new slate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just because we have no memory of our past existences doesn't mean that we started afresh in each life...there are some who are able to see their past lives.....only a few to be sure...and some can even see the past lives of other beings....... never heard of the American mystic Edgar Cayce...or do you only believe possible what you yourself can do and see? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes but If your actually CANNOT remember anything, then your going to be a different person because of environmental effects. If then karma is true, then whoever created it was morally reprehensible.

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
hey look at our post counts

yours is 2777 and mine is 1110...we must have a karmic connection....lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMFAO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I mean I believe in Karma to a certain extent, but its much more akin to consequentialism and cause and effect in the real world. Not supernatural.

[fabianfred]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Yes but If your actually CANNOT remember anything, then your going to be a different person because of environmental effects. If then karma is true, then whoever created it was morally reprehensible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are a different person...in the aspect that you are in a fresh new existence with a different form or body....but it is the continuation of our mindstream...passed from one existence to another by the process of karma.... which is responsible for our actions in a past existence...and for which we recieive punishment or reward in the present..

Karma is the law of cause and effect..... if you like to steal and destroy other peoples belongings....then in the future the same will happen to you..... if you like to kill animals or people or cause them suffering...then you will have short lifetimes and suffer from ill health..... if you like to curse people and speak badly, gossip, lie, get angry...then you will be born ugly with bad teeth and bad breath and people will not pay attention to what you have to say.....if you speak only well of others, praise their good points, do not take part in idle gossip or malicious slander, speak truthfully....you will be born beautiful, with nice teeth and fresh sweet smelling breath...and when you speak people will attend to what you have to say....

just a few examples of the workings of karma

should an evil man like h.i.tl.e.r not suffer the consequences of his actions in the future....do you think he simply escaped any retribution?....no....he will spend a long time in hell...but even that is not eternal..(unlike the christian viewpoint)...so he will eventually be reborn in other states

[Airmail109]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Yes but If your actually CANNOT remember anything, then your going to be a different person because of environmental effects. If then karma is true, then whoever created it was morally reprehensible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you are a different person...in the aspect that you are in a fresh new existence with a different form or body....but it is the continuation of our mindstream...passed from one existence to another by the process of karma.... which is responsible for our actions in a past existence...and for which we recieive punishment or reward in the present..

Karma is the law of cause and effect..... if you like to steal and destroy other peoples belongings....then in the future the same will happen to you..... if you like to kill animals or people or cause them suffering...then you will have short lifetimes and suffer from ill health..... if you like to curse people and speak badly, gossip, lie, get angry...then you will be born ugly with bad teeth and bad breath and people will not pay attention to what you have to say.....if you speak only well of others, praise their good points, do not take part in idle gossip or malicious slander, speak truthfully....you will be born beautiful, with nice teeth and fresh sweet smelling breath...and when you speak people will attend to what you have to say....

just a few examples of the workings of karma

should an evil man like h.i.tl.e.r not suffer the consequences of his actions in the future....do you think he simply escaped any retribution?....no....he will spend a long time in hell...but even that is not eternal..(unlike the christian viewpoint)...so he will eventually be reborn in other states </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe in Karma like that, that only bad things happen to you if your bad. I think bad karma can be passed onto you, for no reason at all. And that one should try not to pass it onto the next person they meet. Kind of like pass the parcel. I don't see it as something spiritual, just physical dominoes.

If Hitlers memory is erased in a future life, no I don't think his new life should be forfitted in anyway. For my already stated reasons, and that punishment creates bitterness.

[fabianfred]

punishment should not cause bitterness if we know that we have done something to deserve it....it should cause us to reflect that we ...like all beings...seek comfort and avoid suffering...so we should try to avoid creating negative karma and try to create only positive or neutral karma

that is the trouble with not understanding the law of karma...you will live constantly bewildered as to why this happens to me or them...and why they are lucky and not me etc.

it is like trying to play a complex game without knowing the rules.....you will always be making mistakes and never progress...same with life...karma is part of the book of rules

[Bearcat99]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they are not in the slightest bit religious as they have corrupted their interpretation of their faith to suit their own requirements </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
the difference is tho that islam makes allowences for violence to be used , by its adherants

under certian conditions , your allowed to butcher your fellow man & still be in Allahs good books , rewarded even </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A little like the Inquisition/Crusade's perhaps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not so at all.... The is no scriptural justification for the inquisition... as for the crusades... while there is no scriptural justification for that either, it did not happen in a vacuum. Christians didn't just wake up one day and decide to go and kill the peace loving Muslims to please GOD. It was a response to the spread of Islam in the holy land... and Islam has always been a faith spread more by violence or the threat thereof, not in every case, but historically, than by acts of kindness. That's why in many Muslim countries today if you tell your family you want to become a Christian you may be disowned or worse.. that isn't to knock Islam either... it is what it is... but the history and the present day facts speak for themselves. I know many many Muslims who would no sooner strap a bomb to themselves than I would, and who would give you the shirt off their backs.. but that has not been the historical Islam... especially where non Muslims are concerned.. and when you factor in the political side of things.. even in the climate of today... it all gets very fuzzy.. although taking mentally deficient women and strapping bombs to them and telling them they are going to the market is a new low... As Charos said, Islam makes allowances for those interpretations... where as in Christianity if you can read, you can see that that is not the case... There is no way you can justify acts of violence in Christianity.. at least not on an individual level.. Now nations go to war... and they always will for some reason or another until they are forced not to... However that may come about.. I have my ideas which I am sure many can guess, but I wont go into that. The one thing that made me loose a lot of respect for the Arab cause.. which is a legitimate cause by the way, is the indiscriminate way in which they go about their business.... It all lost me when they began attacking schools and markets, children etc..


Hmmmm guys lets try to keep this civil.. even if you get excited... no one has gone off the deep end yet.. but you all know this could go kaboom in a heart beat... so even if you get pissed.. lets try to keep the discussion going...... (Not that anyone hasnt thus far.....)

[Charos]

Lao-tzu - Tao Te Ching

When the Way is forgotten
Duty and justice appear;
Then knowledge and wisdom are born
Along with hypocrisy.

When harmonious relationships dissolve
Then respect and devotion arise;
When a nation falls to chaos
Then loyalty and patriotism are born.

___________________________________________

Well established hierarchies are not easily uprooted;
Closely held beliefs are not easily released;
So ritual enthralls generation after generation.

Harmony does not care for harmony, and so is naturally attained;
But ritual is intent upon harmony, and so can not attain it.

Harmony neither acts nor reasons;
Love acts, but without reason;
Justice acts to serve reason;
But ritual acts to enforce reason.

When the Way is lost, there remains harmony;
When harmony is lost, there remains love;
When love is lost, there remains justice;
And when justice is lost, there remains ritual.

Ritual is the end of compassion and honesty,
The beginning of confusion;
Belief is a colourful hope or fear,
The beginning of folly.

The sage goes by harmony, not by hope;
He dwells in the fruit, not the flower;
He accepts substance, and ignores abstraction.
__________________________________________________ ________

He summed it up more eloquently than I ever could.

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:

The entire universe is deterministic, what is going to happen is already set in motion.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The randomness of Quanta keeps things interesting. But we are as much a slave to that randomness as anything else.

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:


should an evil man like h.i.tl.e.r not suffer the consequences of his actions in the future....do you think he simply escaped any retribution? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Should, could, would. All meaningless concepts in this context.

It may not FEEL very nice on an emotional level, but that doesn't make the premise of Karma any truer.

[fabianfred]

well...for me...the law of karma answers any question i have about the whys or wherefores of existence..

it is so logical....and completely fair and unbiased.....unlike some beliefs which condemn one to heaven or hell...for eternity...upon the basis of a single lifetime....a life which does not give everyone the same start or the same chances and opportunities
..it does not depend upon praying and beseeching and trying to gain the favour of a god....a god who is jealous of other gods....and gets angry and spiteful and punishes those who do not worship him

[joeap]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
well...for me...the law of karma answers any question i have about the whys or wherefores of existence..

it is so logical....and completely fair and unbiased.....unlike some beliefs which condemn one to heaven or hell...for eternity...upon the basis of a single lifetime....a life which does not give everyone the same start or the same chances and opportunities
..it does not depend upon praying and beseeching and trying to gain the favour of a god....a god who is jealous of other gods....and gets angry and spiteful and punishes those who do not worship him </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not the God I believe in myself.

[MEGILE]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Exodus 20:5

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fabianfred:
well...for me...the law of karma answers any question i have about the whys or wherefores of existence..

it is so logical....and completely fair and unbiased.....unlike some beliefs which condemn one to heaven or hell...for eternity...upon the basis of a single lifetime....a life which does not give everyone the same start or the same chances and opportunities
..it does not depend upon praying and beseeching and trying to gain the favour of a god....a god who is jealous of other gods....and gets angry and spiteful and punishes those who do not worship him </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tend to agree, any god that demands worship with consequesces if you don't is no god worthy of worship. I generally don't think such gods as that exist outside of the thoughtforms that constant worship has created, no real god would have such petty emotions and needs as that.

[WOLFMondo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Charos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">they are not in the slightest bit religious as they have corrupted their interpretation of their faith to suit their own requirements </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
the difference is tho that islam makes allowences for violence to be used , by its adherants

under certian conditions , your allowed to butcher your fellow man & still be in Allahs good books , rewarded even </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A little like the Inquisition/Crusade's perhaps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not so at all.... The is no scriptural justification for the inquisition... as for the crusades... while there is no scriptural justification for that either, it did not happen in a vacuum. Christians didn't just wake up one day and decide to go and kill the peace loving Muslims to please GOD. It was a response to the spread of Islam in the holy land... and Islam has always been a faith spread more by violence or the threat thereof, not in every case, but historically, than by acts of kindness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not how it happened at all. The Crusades was about money, land and creating a protective boundry from any Eastern threat. It was an ancient Nato. Since the conception of Islam, Muslims, Christians and Jews had lived together in peace from the middle east all to modern Morroco and medieval Spain.

The Pope wanted to control the prosperous trading cities on the Med and it gave a vent for the infighting European nobles to go off and do something other than kill each other which put a dent in the churches coffers. The Crusades were about cash and who controlled trade. It was also about stabalising Europe which was a constant battleground from after the fall of the Roman empire until the Napoleonic wars.

You want to see some pedigree butchery, look no further than European nobles using Christianity as a pretext for taking as much money and land as they could get.

And Islam spread through violence? Islam spread through trade and mainly language and culture. Its not in the same league as Christianity when it comes to violence, oppression and being forced on indigenous peoples.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Thats not how it happened at all. The Crusades was about money, land and creating a protective boundry from any Eastern threat. It was an ancient Nato. Since the conception of Islam, Muslims, Christians and Jews had lived together in peace from the middle east all to modern Morroco and medieval Spain.

The Pope wanted to control the prosperous trading cities on the Med and it gave a vent for the infighting European nobles to go off and do something other than kill each other which put a dent in the churches coffers. The Crusades were about cash and who controlled trade. It was also about stabalising Europe which was a constant battleground from after the fall of the Roman empire until the Napoleonic wars.

You want to see some pedigree butchery, look no further than European nobles using Christianity as a pretext for taking as much money and land as they could get.

And Islam spread through violence? Islam spread through trade and mainly language and culture. Its not in the same league as Christianity when it comes to violence, oppression and being forced on indigenous peoples. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

QFT!

[Friendly_flyer]

I don't think you got all your facts quite right Bearcat. Things has gone up and down, sometimes religion (be it Muslim or Christian) has spread peacefully, sometimes at sword-point. We happen to live in a period where Christianity is uncharacteristically peaceful, and Islam is particularly violent. You don't need a degree in social studies to see the underlying socio-economic trends driving this.

I'll give you one thing though, Christianity and Islam differ very much in their approach to law and practice. Islam was a religion made by the winners. After Mohammad, the religious leaders where in a position to write laws and make social change. Christianity on the other hand, where written by losers. The evangelists and the warious letter writes of the NT (mainly Paul) where in no position to make laws. They where prosecuted and downtrodden. Thus their writing is more about moral and philosophy. This has made Christianity a bit more flexible and a lot better suited to our modern world, but Islam is the religion of choice when you live in a chaotic world with a desperate need for law and order. Tools and tasks and all that...