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View Full Version : End game leveling is completely broken. (40 to 100 insanely fast without bugs)



The88thCrazy
04-07-2011, 10:14 PM
Dear devs:

I am writing to say that the stretch of leveling between [Whatever level you are after completing Vision] and level 100 is entirely too easy, and way too fast compared to leveling prior to level 30 or 40. It's almost the exact opposite of...i don't know...every single other RPG of all time? I think it took me several weeks to reach level 30 or whatever i was when i completed all of the normal events, yet because the leveling is broken in your game, the rest could have been accomplished in 1 or two days. Several weeks for the first 30 or 40 levels. 1 or 2 days for the other 60 or 70. I suppose that you can only imagine how furious i was to find out that you can go from level 40 to 100 in one sitting without using a single regen mnemonic set. I didn't do this, mostly because i was trying to get achievements in the process, but if i hadn't been trying to complete those, i seriously could have done it all in one sitting. it's not even a bug, it's just bad leveling design, or possibly bad mnemonic implementations. I even did this without having all of the extra AP from contract missions. That means that this can even be done without playing Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood once.

All you need are the following Mnemonic sets active at the same time: (except gods, i suppose)
-Italian States (-10% AP Requirements)
-Este Family (+25% EXP Bonus)
-Explorers (+25% EXP Bonus)
-Composers (+10% Max AP)
-Gods (Skill point reset)[Optional, i suppose]
-Games (-15% AP Requirements)
-Ptolemaic Dynasty ( -15% AP Requirements)
-Shroud of Turin (-10% AP Requirements)
-Mars Anomalies (+25% EXP Bonus)

Granted, it does take a fair amount of time and resources to gather all of these, and i'll admit that i actually had fun while on the hunt. It's also worth noting that you'll probably gain a handful of levels while gathering all of these as well. All of that aside, with all of those sets active at the same time you have the following sum of benefits:

+75% EXP Bonus
-50% AP Requirements
+10% Max AP

And that's only from one of each being active. you don't even need any more than that to get to 100 in one sitting, regardless of starting level.

That being said, we all know that Vision is hands down the best event for pure exp gain. it doesn't have any consumables in it's requirements, and it's great:

-Costs 38 AP
-400 EXP Gain
-10.56 EXP/AP Ratio

But with those Benefits:

-Costs 19 AP
-700 EXP Gain
-36.84 EXP/AP Ratio

That's insane.

Now, without all of the additional AP from completing the contract missions, that gives us a base of 697 skill points at level 100 to spend. if we use a Gods set and place all 697 in Conflict, for a total of 702 Conflict, we have an additional 70 AP, for a total of 772 AP. With the Composers Mnemonic, that gives us a grand total of 865 AP to spend at level 100. if you spend all 865 points in Vision:

36.84 XPR * 865 AP = 31867 EXP with an AP refresh at level 100.

While i realize that your total AP is lower for each and every level, and that the math isn't 100% perfect, using all of those mnemonics still gives you enough EXP to gain an entire level, for any level upon AP refresh at level up. this literally means that you can glide through every single level with Vision, and without using a single Regen mnemonic, due to the AP refresh given at level ups. I literally started at level 54 last night, and i hit level 100 earlier today using this exact method, and i didn't even have to bug out the game in any way. It's just an endless chain of level ups, right up to and including level 100 It can even be milked further, because i had excess AP left before each and every level up. sure, it wasn't all in one sitting, but i could have definitely started up at a lower level and done the same thing.

I guess it's not the biggest problem in the world, but it's a little bit upsetting after working so damn hard to beat all of the events in the game while working through the first 30-40 levels over several weeks. It'd probably be pretty upsetting for anyone who made it to to level 100 the long way, without this mnemonic set combination.

To fix this, i think there just needs to be some expansion on the amounts of exp required for each level, because it's always pretty close to the level requirements when using this method (i usually had less than 60 AP left when leveling up, except the lower levels, where i had a ton more.) by doing this, you are requiring the player to wait until the rest of the AP are filled, which probably means that they aren't going to be able to pull of 40+ levels before the timer out on those mnemonics run out.

Another suggestion, and one that i think is a little bit more fair to everyone else who isn't doing this, is to change the way mnemonics work. One way is to put a limit on the amount of active sets. pretty self explanatory. A second way would be to only allow one mnemonic of a certain variety to be active, with the exception of AP regens (1 exp boost instead of 3, 1 ap reduce instead of 3, etc)

I think the reason i bring this up is because the faster that you're letting your players hit level 100, the more likely they are to quit, because let's be realistic...there isn't a whole lot to do at level 100 trust me, i'm probably not going to touch this game again until the next expansion comes out.

The88thCrazy
04-07-2011, 10:14 PM
Dear devs:

I am writing to say that the stretch of leveling between [Whatever level you are after completing Vision] and level 100 is entirely too easy, and way too fast compared to leveling prior to level 30 or 40. It's almost the exact opposite of...i don't know...every single other RPG of all time? I think it took me several weeks to reach level 30 or whatever i was when i completed all of the normal events, yet because the leveling is broken in your game, the rest could have been accomplished in 1 or two days. Several weeks for the first 30 or 40 levels. 1 or 2 days for the other 60 or 70. I suppose that you can only imagine how furious i was to find out that you can go from level 40 to 100 in one sitting without using a single regen mnemonic set. I didn't do this, mostly because i was trying to get achievements in the process, but if i hadn't been trying to complete those, i seriously could have done it all in one sitting. it's not even a bug, it's just bad leveling design, or possibly bad mnemonic implementations. I even did this without having all of the extra AP from contract missions. That means that this can even be done without playing Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood once.

All you need are the following Mnemonic sets active at the same time: (except gods, i suppose)
-Italian States (-10% AP Requirements)
-Este Family (+25% EXP Bonus)
-Explorers (+25% EXP Bonus)
-Composers (+10% Max AP)
-Gods (Skill point reset)[Optional, i suppose]
-Games (-15% AP Requirements)
-Ptolemaic Dynasty ( -15% AP Requirements)
-Shroud of Turin (-10% AP Requirements)
-Mars Anomalies (+25% EXP Bonus)

Granted, it does take a fair amount of time and resources to gather all of these, and i'll admit that i actually had fun while on the hunt. It's also worth noting that you'll probably gain a handful of levels while gathering all of these as well. All of that aside, with all of those sets active at the same time you have the following sum of benefits:

+75% EXP Bonus
-50% AP Requirements
+10% Max AP

And that's only from one of each being active. you don't even need any more than that to get to 100 in one sitting, regardless of starting level.

That being said, we all know that Vision is hands down the best event for pure exp gain. it doesn't have any consumables in it's requirements, and it's great:

-Costs 38 AP
-400 EXP Gain
-10.56 EXP/AP Ratio

But with those Benefits:

-Costs 19 AP
-700 EXP Gain
-36.84 EXP/AP Ratio

That's insane.

Now, without all of the additional AP from completing the contract missions, that gives us a base of 697 skill points at level 100 to spend. if we use a Gods set and place all 697 in Conflict, for a total of 702 Conflict, we have an additional 70 AP, for a total of 772 AP. With the Composers Mnemonic, that gives us a grand total of 865 AP to spend at level 100. if you spend all 865 points in Vision:

36.84 XPR * 865 AP = 31867 EXP with an AP refresh at level 100.

While i realize that your total AP is lower for each and every level, and that the math isn't 100% perfect, using all of those mnemonics still gives you enough EXP to gain an entire level, for any level upon AP refresh at level up. this literally means that you can glide through every single level with Vision, and without using a single Regen mnemonic, due to the AP refresh given at level ups. I literally started at level 54 last night, and i hit level 100 earlier today using this exact method, and i didn't even have to bug out the game in any way. It's just an endless chain of level ups, right up to and including level 100 It can even be milked further, because i had excess AP left before each and every level up. sure, it wasn't all in one sitting, but i could have definitely started up at a lower level and done the same thing.

I guess it's not the biggest problem in the world, but it's a little bit upsetting after working so damn hard to beat all of the events in the game while working through the first 30-40 levels over several weeks. It'd probably be pretty upsetting for anyone who made it to to level 100 the long way, without this mnemonic set combination.

To fix this, i think there just needs to be some expansion on the amounts of exp required for each level, because it's always pretty close to the level requirements when using this method (i usually had less than 60 AP left when leveling up, except the lower levels, where i had a ton more.) by doing this, you are requiring the player to wait until the rest of the AP are filled, which probably means that they aren't going to be able to pull of 40+ levels before the timer out on those mnemonics run out.

Another suggestion, and one that i think is a little bit more fair to everyone else who isn't doing this, is to change the way mnemonics work. One way is to put a limit on the amount of active sets. pretty self explanatory. A second way would be to only allow one mnemonic of a certain variety to be active, with the exception of AP regens (1 exp boost instead of 3, 1 ap reduce instead of 3, etc)

I think the reason i bring this up is because the faster that you're letting your players hit level 100, the more likely they are to quit, because let's be realistic...there isn't a whole lot to do at level 100 trust me, i'm probably not going to touch this game again until the next expansion comes out.

DiscoMcDisco
04-08-2011, 07:05 AM
This was a really interesting post, and I agree with your conclusion about managing Mneumonics more strictly to better tailor the current 'End Game'.

I just wanted to add that I'll only come back to play when something new comes along. Now I've completed (at LVL51) everything that is available, I'll happily sit back until there's something else to do. DDS 2.0 and The Sciences pack should keep me happy for a while.

Great post though, and I really hope DDS 2.0 implements the controls you're pushing for.

If pushed, however, what would you want the controls to be?

i.e Only 1 type of Mneumonic can be used at any one time, up to a maximum of 3

This may help the developers direct the balancing that you think is required.

coryplayspiano
04-08-2011, 07:44 AM
I disagree. The fact that the game gives you those mnemonics and you have to strategize to realize which ones are good for what and then go find them is what I like about the game. Once I discovered those mnemonics, it still took me a long time to get from about Level 50 to 100. A lot of that was because it takes a long time to get some of the mnemonics you mentioned, especially Ptolemaic Dynasty. Until I started getting to higher levels and finishing a lot of the memories, I couldn't really get many mnemonic sets. Once I started having enough AP to get them, the game opened up for me and I realized how cool some of the strategy was. I will grant you that I could have leveled up faster, but I was saving some of my AP regen mnemonics in case the new content came out the next day.

I think you're also overlooking the fact that the AP costs are 25% lower right now, and have been since February 28. Apparently it's a promotion for the Divine Science pack, and they want people to be able to gain levels and find supplies in the run up to the new content and whatever the new "Mastery Level" system is. If the AP costs go back up to what they were before, the game might not have allowed you to do what you did, even with all those mnemonics activated.

I like your post and this discussion though. I wouldn't mind maybe a limit of 5 or 7 mnemonic sets active at a time for the sets that stay on for 20 hours, not the AP regen ones.

The88thCrazy
04-21-2011, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
If pushed, however, what would you want the controls to be? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If i had to put an exact number on it, i would say probably 2 max of one type active (exp gain, ap cost, money gain, etc), and a global max of 6 or 8 active for all types, not including AP regens.

this problem is going to become even more apparent when the new mnemonics are released with the 2.0 update. 2 max of one type would currently allow -30% AP cost and a 50% AP bonus, which would still be plenty to blast through levels, but it would still require the usage of AP regens to be as nearly effective, so 50+ levels can't be gained in a single sitting.

LuigiPT
04-21-2011, 09:17 PM
I'm just going to say this. If you came up some months earlier, before they made the switch to the EXP you would have taken a month to level from 40 to 50, if not more. Even using all the tricks.

Some months ago, they made it easy, because lots of people already had finished the game and were aiming for the level 100 achievement. And it would have taken an year to get there, believe me!

sargorn323
04-23-2011, 02:51 PM
can yuo plese, please tell me EXACTLY in what memory in what chapter in what set is the Vision thingy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Tall_and_Weird
04-23-2011, 10:38 PM
The Vision memory is in Rome, Chapter 4, 1542 - Italy.

And, weighing into the argument, it tooks me a while to realise that using the mnemonics rather than hoarding them was a good idea.

Once I worked out that if you keep using the mnemonics that increase your chance of getting mnemonic components and keep refilling your APs with the appropriate sets so you can keep doing the right memories over and over to build up your stock of sets, everything became easier. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sargorn323
04-24-2011, 05:21 AM
wow, thanks for the help
ILL BE 100IN NO TIMEEEE!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif