Would it still be GR? [Archive]

XyZspineZyX

10-26-2003, 09:45 PM

I got to thinking about something well I came to my own decision but I thought I would ask the masses.

If vehicles and stuff were added to GR would it really be the same game? If you could drive and operate the tanks .. jeeps etc in GR would that so drastically change the game into something else not in-line with what made GR what it is a small unit tactical shooter.

I think that adding vehicles is the current "trend" in these types of games ..and quite honestly I don't know if I like the "new direction" but it was worth asking.

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XyZspineZyX

10-26-2003, 09:45 PM

XyZspineZyX

10-26-2003, 11:41 PM

Dago,
I to am leary about adding vehicles that are more interactive then we are now used to. If it is not done with some forethought, it could diminish a very good game, rather then improve it.

XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 12:51 AM

Im glad I am not the only one. I dont think this game needs anything. I have seen super huge lists of things people want to see added to this game, personally I am for leaving it much the way that it is. Take us back to the original sensor kits (the game was more balanced, encouraging of teamwork and fun) before IT and all of the sensor kits that were added. Stay away from vehicles, stay away from super weapons .. tweak the engine .. allow somewhat bigger maps that kind of stuff yes .. but vehicles.. nah I think they would take away from the game.

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 01:29 AM

I bought DFBHD 3 days ago and have finished it already!

BHD has a heavy focus on vehicles, gunning from that is, did I like that aspect?

It was OK.

Will I play it again?

Probably not.

I can't help but wonder would I have enjoyed BHD, MOHAA, BF1942 ect, more if I had never come across GR.

GR for better or worse is what I gauge all othe games by, and after 2 years I have not come across a game that has the same, or even close to the same replayability.

Why? Because they got the gameplay right. Nowhere near perfect but as close to it that I have come across.

If you change the gameplay it ceases to be GR.

Take a look at the games I mentiond above, what do they all have in common?

Similar gameplay, similar replayability... They don't stay on your hard drive long!!!!

Don't get me wrong, the above games all have certain features I would like to see in GR2, but the vehicle thing is not one of them.

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 02:09 AM

You know there are some neat things is BHD .. one like I mentioned in another thread was the having to secure a landing zone to await an incomming helo to medivac your wounded out... I thought that was actually a pretty neat lil inclusion into a so so game.

But I agree GR is so good because there is nothing else like it. Nothing else that has come out after it plays or feels the same lets hope that they dont change much.

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 02:16 AM

Yer, mission wise BHD is good.

Good fire fights, apart from the fact you can get hit several times without damage.

I liked the number of opforce, just not the way you have to take them out.

I like the maps, just not the way you get around them.

I like the ideas behind the game, just not the gameplay!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 01:54 PM

Please, no vehicles into Ghost recon 2. What's the use of asking for the things every other game in the market already has? All we get from that is a bunch of run-off-the-mill-games that look, feel and play exactly the same. If that happens, GR 2 will have nothing to distinguish itself from the rest.

Sure, it will probably sell when you show the screenshots of guys riding jeeps and hopping like rabbits on the battlefields with their covers-half-of-your-screen-plasma cannons. The fans of Counter-strike, Medal of honor and other bunny wabbit games will love it.

But, no, it won't be Ghost recon 2. It will be, in my opinion, garbage.

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 03:58 PM

No no no.

Opening & ending sequences are ok & Tango driven & parked vehicles littered around that you can destroy is also good but driving vehicles in missions or online would change GR for the worse. There are many things that could be added to GR2 & would seem to be an improvement but would actualy ruin the game play.

GR2 needs to keep to its roots & just improve on it's floors, Major game play changes like driving vehicles, jumping & medi packs. would kill a great game.

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XyZspineZyX

10-27-2003, 10:12 PM

I don't understand what is wrong with jumping. Give me a break - like a special forces op can't jump over a fence?

Agree with the vehicles and med packs. Med packs are really bogus

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 02:08 PM

Because what happens in multiplay Mc. In games where there is jumping you find guys running around doing Lil bunny foo foo imitations .. and that is quite honestly not the direction that most of the people that have played this game from the time it came out are interested in.

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 04:15 PM

The reason that GR stands head and shoulders above games that quickly fade from our hard drives is that it adheres to the principles of a pure tactical shooter...as much as possible.

It's simply you, your gun, your skills, your teammates...and the enemy. No gimmicks. The one shot-one kill makes you pay for your mistakes and hones you into a better player. Your strategy determines how the game will play out.

I can't imagine that the creators of GR2 would deviate much from this "recipe".

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 05:42 PM

I still don't think that jumping is gimmicky. If someone jumps around like a bunny in multiplayer, then put a bullet in his head.

A knif would be kinda cool. Rambo had a knife, and he was a green beret. Granted, you would most likely get killed trying to use it, but think of the fun. If you are actually killed by someone with a knife, think of the humiliation! It would be a good challenge in single player too. A way to kill silently.

A bow would be neat, but a tad cheesy

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 09:07 PM

I like the fact that GR does not allow a mouse/keyboard skill expert to perform super human feats; he is limited to ordinary human motion. Also you don't have to perform acrobatics to win. In other words, aiming & tactics are what matters.

I think they could add more gametypes like a Co-op mode called "Siege" where you assault one or more objectives defended by tangos. (opposite of defend with more action than firefight)

XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 11:13 PM

I think vehicles would be a bad thing.

For starters, they're Ghosts. I think that would take away from the whole 'If you see them, you're already dead' part of the game. They're a stealth unit which 'doesn't exist', so giving them a Humvee to drive around in would make them more obvious.

Plus, that'll open up the whole new possibility of kamikaze drivers and with respawn on that'll just be an obvious choice.

Bad bad in my opinion. Keep vehicles out of it.

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XyZspineZyX

10-28-2003, 11:55 PM

Not allowing mouse/keyboard experts to have a huge advantage is teh best argument I've heard so far. GR should reward brains, not dexterity.

Vehicles? I'm still torn, though I think it needs to be implemented in a smart way - not like Halo. No tanks. Maybe driving a stealth boat down a river - you can shoot people, but you risk being spotted and killed (enemies can shoot holes in boats too!).

XyZspineZyX

10-29-2003, 04:08 AM

To Fyredawg,

Like so many have pointed out and myself included that adding vehicles,jumping ,medic pack and the likes etc etc will only bring this game down and disappoint the loyal gamers that have worked so hard to keep this game alive.

Other gamers will buy GR that have come from other gaming styles and want changes because it's not there cup of tea, but there the one's that are here today gone tomorrow. You will never see me try a change a game that has been brought out on the market that's not my style so I wish those other gamers would shut-up and leave this game alone that has found it's niche with us.

There has been a long list of fixes and improvement put forward but lets not steer away from the GR basics that this game was founded on. I suspect that like all gamers that have stayed with GR it's because it's unique and not like the hoards of other games that haunt the retail shops.

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Message Edited on 10/29/0305:31PM by snipe21

XyZspineZyX

10-30-2003, 04:15 PM

I agree guys ... I didnt post this as something in support of vehicles ... med packs or any other such silly stuff.I frequent SEVERAL forums and its a pretty big issue on some. Along with mines sensor activated proximity ect.. just simply silly stuff that would totaly change the way the game is played much like the increase of sensor kits did when Island Thunder was released.Fairly quickly after the release of that expansion pack it seems to me that ladders started to close, the number of players droped ect. It is pretty amazing how the inclusion of more sensors with different weapons changed the game or rather the way it is played online so drasticly. A fun well balanced game turned into a sensor campfest. Plain and simple. I and the guys in my clan played this game all of the time. We kept a server up and running 24/7 we got to be pretty decent at the game /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But that lil simple change pretty much ruined it for us. Immagine vehickles .. proximity mines and that sort of stuff added in addition to this. If I want to ride in a bradly or an abrams I will get an tank sim .. this is an infantry sig I hope that it stays that way I just wanted to check the pulse of folks here.

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XyZspineZyX

10-30-2003, 04:46 PM

To Fyredawg,

I'm with you on sensors as they have brought the game down something fierce. You only have to be an observer and see the amount of gamers using the standard weapon combo OICW no GL and sensors.

When GR2 hits the market I hope that the sensors for MP gaming is placed back to the old way where it was only available with the MP5 weapon kit. Single player mode I don't have a problem but MP is turning out to be a bunch of gamers with there eyes clued on the command map like allot of unskilled players.

This is my opinion but if I had my way in the DEV team sensors for on line gaming would be removed along with enemy showing up on the command map. I would also remove the ability to run while looking at the command map and only have it like it used to be where you had to be stationary to look at it as you would in most cases in real life.

I have heard so many people say that they run around with the command map in there face on the screen along with people running with Binocs clued to there face. The Binocs I have seen them do it and it's just wrong.

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XyZspineZyX

10-31-2003, 12:28 AM

Snipe I agree with you totaly .. in its original release sensors were something you took at the penalty of losing something else. ie you may have some foresight into where the badguys were / are but you can do very little about it. It was balanced. I have gotten numerous kills with the mp5 (uber weapon that it is) but at least things were balanced. IMO it promoted teamwork because you only wanted one or two guys with the things because you lost sooo much firepower in taking them. I know in our ladder matches we only had one guy with the things and he basicly had to be escorted every where cause we did NOT want to lose him. With IT that changed, and in doing so the game and more importantly game balance changed.

I know when we played with 8 of us .. it was 3 oicw's with nade launchers .. 3 sa 80's with frags a support and a sensor (female dog - danged forum software /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ) it was a well rounded team that worked together .. now its like you have said .. a zillion people camped on thier two sensors with an oicw its crazy. I think there was very little thought that went into that one. I honestly think it came about by giving everyone binoc's If you look at the original release, there were several kits that you could take a main weapon and a set of binoc's ... with IT everyone got the binocs and I think to keep the number of kits from droping .. they added the sensor kits. The current kits with sensors are the ones that used to have binocs .. in the same slots in the kit listing .. just food for thought.

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XyZspineZyX

11-02-2003, 05:25 PM

baldie_mcgregor wrote:
- I don't understand what is wrong with jumping. Give
- me a break - like a special forces op can't jump
- over a fence?
-
- Agree with the vehicles and med packs. Med packs
- are really bogus

Do you realize how much the equipment the average US soldier carries, weighs?

They're typically between 40 and 80 pounds of extra stuff with them all the time. It doesn't really make for good jumping ability. Besides, when was the last time you tried to jump over a fence? Most of them, even the short ones would be too high for all but sprinters, and how many sprinters carry 60 pounds of stuff with them when they do jump a fence. Now a soldier could easily climb over a short fence, but that's a different story.

Now I also happen to play paintball and when I play, to be
honest I don't carry more than 15 pounds of stuff, it's probably close to half that, but do I ever jump over anything? No, why? Because I'm carrying a somewhat hefty chunk of aluminum and steel. It throws of my balance and I instinctive refrain from doing anything that could send that chunk of aluminum and steel into my face. If I could force myself to jump, and I would have to force myself because it doesn't feel safe jumping with a gun in my hand I would probably either end up with that gun in my face, or I would end up falling the wrong way and hurting myself because I was trying to keep my gun out of my face. Either way, jumping and guns don't mix.

Note this: I've actually tried to jump while playing paintball just to see what it was like, I bought my center of gravity down preparing to jump, but just would not do it. There is something in our physiology that keeps us from doing things that are not likely to end well. Try putting on a heavy backpack (yes, the weight will probably be better distrubuted on the soldier), pick up a gun or something that resembles a gun (preferably made out of metal) and see how likely you are to jump. Another thing to note is thats it's best (most realistic) to try this outside on somewhat uneven ground with roots and stuff sticking out of the soil. Note: I'm just kidding about doing that outside somewhere with uneven ground, I've seen enough people playing paintball hurt themselves in areas like that without jumping.

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Message Edited on 11/02/0312:33PM by Thoramir

XyZspineZyX

11-03-2003, 06:11 PM

Climbing then. There are obstacles in GR that could/should be overcome by a green beret that are not. Fences are one of those. Maybe jumping is stupid - you make a good argument - but they should at least be able ot climb over things.

XyZspineZyX

11-04-2003, 05:49 AM

Now your talking realism vs playability... Look back to RS and its expansions .. R6 for that matter even. Climbing was included in the game .. and in the MP arena it was a death sentence just about to climb anything .. lol

I agree that there should be some more mobility for players but there is a really really fine line there and quite honestly I would rather them leave it alone than I would see them try to mess with it and make it worse.

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XyZspineZyX

11-04-2003, 09:47 AM

yeah I'm with Fyredawg on that last point.

"there should be some more mobility for players but there is a really really fine line there and quite honestly I would rather them leave it alone than I would see them try to mess with it and make it worse."

that pretty much sums it up. There are so many additions that on first thought are "yeah!!! that would be cool" but on reflection (if it's not done right) would kill an awsome game.

Personaly I'd love the ability to climb but I know that if it would probably kill the game play. (Especialy MP) It's all about balanceing out the game play & thats where GR got it spot on. The gameplay has got to come first then the fancy stuff can be added after that.

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XyZspineZyX

11-05-2003, 03:43 AM

baldie_mcgregor wrote:
- Climbing then. There are obstacles in GR that
- could/should be overcome by a green beret that are
- not. Fences are one of those. Maybe jumping is
- stupid - you make a good argument - but they should
- at least be able ot climb over things.

Ideally yes, climbing was not included due to an engine limitation, the developers simply couldn't make it consistent enough as far as how your soldier handles things like rocky terrain. I think it's something we'd all like to see in Ghost Recon 2 if they can do it right.

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XyZspineZyX

11-05-2003, 10:36 AM

If they do the thing right and leave the core of the gamplay this would be awsome.. (I asume you mean climbing small fences and walls... not big cliffs)

But there is one or two more things i would like to see....

When tossing a nade.. why can't you move... moving while tossing should not be a big problem...

When you switch from primary weapon to secondary and back.... why cant you lay down or get up.... the same thing is when realoading..

The next question is: How real do we want it to be ???

Should wounded people bleed to death... or be paralyzed after a bullet through the spine ? The soildiers scream for a medic.. why shoudn't the other soldiers have a tiny first aid kit(NOT A POWER UP LIKE IN MOHAA)... to avoid people from bleeding to death.. if possible... you are still wounded .. you just don't die

Should powerfull explosives destroy things ? Should the enviroment be more like HL2. (You can do anything to everything..) ?

Some things that GR2 "must" have is:
Buildt in patchable anticheat... With auto update, more like an antivirus.. (cheaters = virus ) (uhh did I say that ??)

and so on and so on...

Anyway .. the most important thing is ... dont ruin the game.... we love the game as it is..
with no cars, no powerups, with limping and all the other things that makes this game special... and changes should be minor and not major.... and as always excuse my english /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX

11-05-2003, 03:52 PM

Ed_1 wrote:
-.... and as
- always excuse my english

Only if you excuse mine /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

But I agree with you on the grenade, you should be able to execute some sort of drop and roll, as in over it and take one for the team kinda thing, or outa the way but theres no glory in that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX

11-05-2003, 05:45 PM

I like the bleed to death - minor first aid kit thing that Ed1 mentioned. That would be very realistic. Why do these guys cry for a medic when they know damn well that they're not getting one until the mission's over? I love the idea of destructible environments.

Jump around. Jump around. Jump up, jump up, and get down!

XyZspineZyX

11-05-2003, 07:17 PM

BTW... Kidbuster is out with a new version..

You can now host 36 players ... join directly via ASE , but not UBI if i did things right....( let's hope UBI make a patch for that ) Nice!!! Now it gets harder for cheaters....

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XyZspineZyX

11-05-2003, 11:33 PM

Thoramir wrote:

- Do you realize how much the equipment the average US
- soldier carries, weighs?

Thor if only the gamers wanting jumping would go and try this and just see how hard it is then they will realise why we say no jumping/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cerberus_88 wrote:

- I like the fact that GR does not allow a
- mouse/keyboard skill expert to perform super human
- feats;

Most of those gamers wouldn't be playing GR because of it's sedate style that GR is. Can you picture it a Ghost soldier jumping of a cliff doing a couple of back flips while shooting 8 tangos,throwing 3 frags,reloading,picking up a health pack,grabbing a new weapon of the dead,picking up a new body armour,reading command map, typing a message to all team mates all before he hit the ground/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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