For those of you that like to play Sharpshooter [Archive]

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by MxSkanduhLESxM:
these polls are biased.. please explain

A. not everyone that plays GRAW comes on these forums.

Does not matter, they are part of the gaming community

B. how can you tell if the people voting are diehard sharpshooter players or just casual gamers.

doesn't matter if they are hard core or casual, they both play the same game

C. who cares what people like... the fact is both sides deserve to have an option/mode they enjoy....THAT IS THE FACT.. and that's the bottom line.

 If people like to Spawn Kill then they will, don't bring your thread into mine

why doesn't your poll have an question about.. "even though you don't like spawnkilling.... should spawnkillers have a game mode to themselves?"

Because this is my thread and there is already a long winded thread elsewhere about what you want

then we can see how many none spawnkillers are willing to stop being selfish and share the game.

Speak for yourself buddy, they aren't the only ones being selfish

The thread is about whether or not you like to Spawn Kill. This thread isn't about having options to allow or dis-allow Spawn Invulnerability.

Originally posted by MxSkanduhLESxM:
how can you tell if the people voting are diehard sharpshooter players or just casual gamers
Are you saying that the casual gamer doesn't have the same voice as the Hard Core gamer? Didn't they both buy the game for relatively the same price to have fun? Why should the votes be distinguished between the two like it actually matters, they both play the same game.

phidave

11-01-2007, 11:45 AM

I do not, nor do I like spawn killing. Rather, I (and the guys I play with) prefer and practice supression tactics.

With that said, we have absolutely no problems removing someone who's taken up residency in our spawn and returning the favor utilizing supression techniques.

MxSkanduhLESxM

11-01-2007, 11:56 AM

mean.. your exactly who shouldnt be in this thread.you showing up in this thread proves how biased this poll is gonna be.

didnt you say in the other thread that you only play sharpshooter and domination to "warm-up" for siege?

this is why this poll isn't valid. .casual sharpshooter players are deciding the way sharpshooter is played for guys that have been playing the game forever...

why is this hard to understand?
if a thread about "siege" players comes up. .i'm not gonna go in there and run my mouth when i only play siege on an occassion. my vote in siege is not valid becuz i only play it when i'm bored.

MeanMF

11-01-2007, 11:57 AM

What part of "When you play Team Sharpshooter do you like to spawn kill?" are you having a problem with?

I guess the poll would be fair if it said "If you are a person who exclusively plays Team Sharpshooter in rooms that allow spawn killing, do you like to spawn kill?"

XBGJackrabbit

11-01-2007, 12:16 PM

Your third definition Spawn Suppression is what I do and what I wish everyone would do...
Just the other day I was playing against some of my fellow clan members and right off the bat they had aftermath(horrid map) locked down. Me and my teammates were able to break through in the early stages but we were forced back into our spawn where the spawn killin began.
Right at this moment I get the feeling what the hell am I supposed to do now, If the person hidin behind the house doesnt get me then the one hidin behind the wall next to him is going to get me...Now this is playing against fellow clan members which kind of makes it worse in some way.
Yes i'm moaning a wee bit thats sharpshooter for you, Siege is where the fun is.....

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by MxSkanduhLESxM:
mean.. your exactly who shouldnt be in this thread.you showing up in this thread proves how biased this poll is gonna be.

didnt you say in the other thread that you only play sharpshooter and domination to "warm-up" for siege?

this is why this poll isn't valid. .casual sharpshooter players are deciding the way sharpshooter is played for guys that have been playing the game forever...

why is this hard to understand?
if a thread about "siege" players comes up. .i'm not gonna go in there and run my mouth when i only play siege on an occassion. my vote in siege is not valid becuz i only play it when i'm bored.

Translation:

MeanMF, you are exactly the type of person that shouldn't be posting in this thread. You responding to this thread proves my point on how bias this thread is and I feel threatened by you.

<STRIKE>Didnt you say in the other thread that you only play sharpshooter and domination to "warm-up" for siege?</STRIKE>

This is why this poll isn't valid. Casual sharpshooter players are voting against what I want and they shouldn't be allowed too unless of course they vote my way. Since they aren't voting about adding for removing options... why the hell are you still talking about that in my thread.

Why is this hard to understand? Why don't you understand that everyone has a say and not just people such as yourself.

If a thread about "siege" players comes up I'm not gonna go in there and run my mouth when I only play siege on an occassion because I have the attention span of a ferret. My vote in siege is not valid because I only play it when I'm bored, although I am only saying that so that you will not see how Hypocritical my theorys are.

Lay off MeanMF and I will lay off you, he has much right to express himself in my thread as anyone. But I will not allow you to confront him because you have some sort of vendetta against him because he does not agree with you.

joyousguard

11-01-2007, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by MeanMF:
What part of "When you play Team Sharpshooter do you like to spawn kill?" are you having a problem with?

I guess the poll would be fair if it said "If you are a person who exclusively plays Team Sharpshooter in rooms that allow spawn killing, do you like to spawn kill?"

I believe his point was that the methodology behind the poll was very limited and inexact leading to a very unsubstantiated qualitative or quantitative analysis or conclussion. Scanduls comments seem to be more towards the structure and thus the result rather than the substance of the poll itself. He's just throwing his 2 cents in on the poll setup itself.

That being said: Take a look at the petition we drafted and asked people to sign on the xbox forums (link provided below). It has one of the highest post response rates of any thread on that particular forum considering numerous factors that contributed to many people disliking it. Considering it was an all or nothing petition, the amount of people who signed in correltaion per the numer of posters on the forums and the number of views makes it much more reliable than a one question poll. If you want I will draft a proper poll/petition for the issue of spawnkilling and see how many people sign it. But as it stands this poll is unreliable and at best inconclusive regardless of the outcome.

But Klown does have the right to ask whatever question he wants, how he wants regardless of the inherent flaws.

http://forums.xbox.com/15812753/ShowPost.aspx

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 12:29 PM

Yes I do, but I would like to know how you think that very simple and broad question is "flawed" or "biased". I think you people are just upset that people aren't voting the way you want them to.

Perhaps I should change the question to, ATTN: Spawn Killers only, do you like to spawn kill? would that be more to your liking? In fact, I already made a new poll just for you.

joyousguard

11-01-2007, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
Yes I do, but I would like to know how you think that very simple and broad question is "flawed" or "biased".

The first probelem with your methodology is the definitions themsleves. Unfourtuantely Webster, to my knowledge, does not include such exact definitions within its confines. This is not your fault but an inherent flaw that cannot easily be overcome. To give an example to this is simple. The Supreme Court of the United States (this is true) had extreme difficult defining what was categorized as "Porn". Many of them responded by saying "I know it when I see it" but they could not give an exact definition. I think many of us know what porn is but can't exactly define it to well.

Similiar is the definition of spawnkilling. You made mention that to spawn kill means "To kill a enemy as soon as he/she spawns". So the question becomes, if I wait a split second after they respawn it is not considered "immediate"? My trigger finger is not pressed immediately and my bullets do not kill them immediately so it must not be a spawn kill? If you shoot someone running around in their own spawn is this too a "spawn kill"? What area is considered the "spawn"? How large is this area?

I think you get the point but if you wish I can go through the same thing for each defintion.

Here lies part of the problem because for me and you the definition of what constitutes "spawn killing", a "spawn kill", a "spawn zone" etc. etc.... is relative to each individual or group of players because it is not really defined by the game itself.

Now in regards to the question in your poll: "When you play Team Sharpshooter do you like to spawn kill?" If I shoot someone running around within their respawn is this considered a spawn kill? The terminology becomes blurred because the term "spawn zone" is often refered to as such a large ambiguous area that technically people who are posted up in their own respawn and are shot actually could be considered getting "spawn killed".

This is one of the reseons why i never liked the artifical rules on non spawn killers. The were obviously too vague and ill defined and the only way youd really know if you broke the rules is if the host yelled at you or you were booted.

If you want I will explain anything in greater detail or break it down even further and continue on but i think you should get the general idea.

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 01:07 PM

You can twist my words, and make them sound even more convoluted than they actually are. But it seems that people understand my definitions and have voted.

You understand the definitions as well but choose to overly analyze them to discredit my poll because a majority of people have voted that they don't like to spawnkill.

joyousguard

11-01-2007, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
You can twist my words, and make them sound even more convoluted than they actually are. But it seems that people understand my definitions and have voted.

You understand the definitions as well but choose to overly analyze them to discredit my poll because a majority of people have voted that they don't like to spawnkill.

I see even you knew your words are convulted to begin with.

I'm not attacking your opinion about anything simply the methods in which you go about displaying and defending your opinions.

1. By your own admission your words were convulted to begin with.

2. I did understand your definitions but mearly pointed out that they are incomplete, flawed and up for debate. I can also understand when someone describes a tree but does not necessarily mean their definiton is accurate or not up for debate or fine tuning. Your defintions leave too much of a gray area.

2. I don't have to discredit your results you did a good enough job of that on your own. All I did was critique the way you went about getting your results or the results you wanted, nothing more.

4. As I check the poll right now only 19 people have voted yet you make it seem as if 19 people are a large sample of the population in question. And you write with the undertone that you have been vindicated proving that you were biased to begin with further casting a shadow on an already dubious poll and methodology. 

5. In addition, according to one of your other polls, some people don't even prefer games with respawns to begin with further seperating and clouding the population you wish to poll and raising even more questions, than legitemate answers.

Shall I continue?

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 01:52 PM

Fact of the matter is the people understand what the subject matter is and are voting.

Spawn Kill : To kill a enemy as soon as he/she spawns - Gee, I suppose if you kill someone as soon as they spawn, materialize, pop up, appear out of thin air, this is what that is

Spawn Camp : To sit, post up, hide, in the opposing teams spawn - self explanatory

Spawn Suppression : To establish a perimeter around the enemy teams spawn - self explanatory

Lets see, lets combine Spawn Kill and Spawn Camp together. Hmmm, well I guess I would be in the other teams Spawn, so that elimates and question of where I would be, and I suppose since I'm in the other teams spawn I would take advantage and kill the other team as they spawn, thusly Spawn Kill.

That sounds pretty good to me, in fact I think that sound just about perfect and isn't vague in any areas and I used my definitions.

Doesn't mean one can't Spawn Kill outside of the other teams spawn, but yet the defintion doesn't specify where the act is done. The Spawn Camp definition states very specifically that a player is in the other teams spawn, which leaves out room for error of location.

It does not matter if they play the Sharpshooter as much as you, more than you, less than you. They still play the game and they know how they like to play. If they didn't like Sharpshooter I suppose they wouldn't play it.

Jermtheory

11-01-2007, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by joyousguard:
Similiar is the definition of spawnkilling. You made mention that to spawn kill means "To kill a enemy as soon as he/she spawns". So the question becomes, if I wait a split second after they respawn it is not considered "immediate"? My trigger finger is not pressed immediately and my bullets do not kill them immediately so it must not be a spawn kill? If you shoot someone running around in their own spawn is this too a "spawn kill"? What area is considered the "spawn"? How large is this area?

I think you get the point but if you wish I can go through the same thing for each defintion.

Here lies part of the problem because for me and you the definition of what constitutes "spawn killing", a "spawn kill", a "spawn zone" etc. etc.... is relative to each individual or group of players because it is not really defined by the game itself.

Now in regards to the question in your poll: "When you play Team Sharpshooter do you like to spawn kill?" If I shoot someone running around within their respawn is this considered a spawn kill? The terminology becomes blurred because the term "spawn zone" is often refered to as such a large ambiguous area that technically people who are posted up in their own respawn and are shot actually could be considered getting "spawn killed".

This is one of the reseons why i never liked the artifical rules on non spawn killers. The were obviously too vague and ill defined and the only way youd really know if you broke the rules is if the host yelled at you or...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

the irony. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

AI BLUEFOX

11-01-2007, 04:38 PM

Well, as I post it looks like a quarter to a third of the voters do like to spawn kill.

Add to that number those who don't "like" to spawn kill, but would be happy to play in rooms were the settings permit it (an option strangely missing from the answers.....hmmmmm......wonder why.....), and you have a significant percentage of gamers who would like those settings returned.

To be honest I thought there would be less. It seems we really do have a case. Thanks for the poll, Klownsnypr.

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Jermtheory:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

the irony. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

I know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BlueFox:
Left it out on purpose, no need to make the poll more complicated than it should be and have answers that have terms to agree to.

XxCH0NGxX

11-01-2007, 05:12 PM

Looks like the majority of those who voted, don't like to spawn kill. So those who voted that do, are in the minority. Majority rules. At least so far.

AI BLUEFOX

11-01-2007, 05:29 PM

Well on the basis that majority rules we should kill off FPV, all game modes except Sharpshooter and delete all maps except Headquarters and Riverbank.

klownsnypr

11-01-2007, 06:17 PM

lol

THEprepKILLER13

11-01-2007, 06:45 PM

wow look at all those words, you guys really must be offended when playing a video game where the object is to kill people

MxSkanduhLESxM

11-01-2007, 10:33 PM

...here i'll break it down for you clown.
A. not everyone that plays graw comes to these forums...the people on this forum are the reason why the option was taken out in the first place after what 6 years?. these same people cried about it to get the option taken out.. and now they are on here fighting for it not to have an OPTION to return... i mean i make posts requesting more options for all and the NO-SPAWNKILLING TROOPS invade the thread calling people cheaters, glitchers, noobs, kiddies.. etc..

they go around belittling people for their tastes.

B. i did my own lil poll in random sharpshooter matches tonight (of people ACTUALLY PLAYING SHARPSHOOTER... both ranked and unranked) and of 16 rooms only 2 were against spawnkilling... 16 rooms of 12 or more people... meaning your 16-9 vote doesn't match to the demographic of people actually playing...

C. Look at the guy that was talking about being trapped in aftermath (spawn suppression)... complaining about getting killed in his spawn.. and yet there's invulnerability timer... what now? . .are you guys gonna vocalize your opinion about how you want a 500 ft perimeter around your spawn that makes you invulnerable? i mean c'mon... aftermath has 20 different exits if you can't get out of it then i dunno what's wrong.
guys like that are voting ABOUT SHARPSHOOTER settings. .and at the end of their response they vocalize their love for siege?

the same way meanmf did. voted against spawnkilling and then thru in the fact "i like siege better anyway" i was just sayin that if you're gonna vocalize your hate for SHARPSHOOTER.. you vote isn't really valid.

that's already 2 votes of SIEGE players trying to pass themselves off as SHARPSHOOTER PLAYERS.

it's not hard to understand that the people that really like to play sharpshooter votes SHOULD count more than those that just play it as a warm-up.

sure their vote counts. as does everyone in graw.. but whats the point of having these polls anyway?... do you want to take more options out of the game? do you want to split the community in half even more? no matter what more than half are FOR spawnkilling. so there is an audience.

All i know is that these forums don't represent the TRUE demographic.

if you want to make a better poll make one like this where people just pick ONE of the following:

*I play sharpshooter RELIGIOUSLY and i think spawn killing should be done away with.

*I play sharpshooter RELIGIOUSLY and i think spawn killing should be optional.

*I play sharpshooter on occassion, but I think there should be an option for spawn killing.

*I play sharpshooter on occassion, but i think spawn killing should be done away with.

*I hate sharpshooter, I just vote against spawn killing cuz I don't like it/never liked it/ so I want to ruin the game for those that do like it.

*I like all the game modes... the more options the better! I want everyone to be happy.

make a poll like that.
and then let's see what people have to say. instead you made a poll that splits the community, doesnt show their stance... and then you want to rule by majority?... like aibluefox said.. if majority rules.. then all this game would be is SHARPSHOOTER IN HEADQUARTERS AND RIVERBANK... wow wut fun! how old would that get in 2 weeks?

XBGJackrabbit

11-02-2007, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by MxSkanduhLESxM:

C. Look at the guy that was talking about being trapped in aftermath (spawn suppression)... complaining about getting killed in his spawn.. and yet there's invulnerability timer... what now? . .are you guys gonna vocalize your opinion about how you want a 500 ft perimeter around your spawn that makes you invulnerable? i mean c'mon... aftermath has 20 different exits if you can't get out of it then i dunno what's wrong.
guys like that are voting ABOUT SHARPSHOOTER settings. .and at the end of their response they vocalize their love for siege?

Yes I know there is a invulnerability timer but in the match I had as soon as I klled one person in my spawn the timer goes off and his mate next to him nabbs me, and this was the pattern that contined for the rest of the match...and there are only three exits to the spawn, hard to get out of with two or more on each exit

I've noticed the little flame war going on aboot siege players commenting aboot sharpshooter rooms, and yes I play clan matches in siege but that doesnt mean I dont play sharpshooter. Re-reading my post it does seem metioning seige being the best does seem a wee bit nosey (best word I could think of) and I am sorry aboot that.

joyousguard

11-02-2007, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
Fact of the matter is the people understand what the subject matter is and are voting.

Spawn Kill : To kill a enemy as soon as he/she spawns - Gee, I suppose if you kill someone as soon as they spawn, materialize, pop up, appear out of thin air, this is what that is

Spawn Camp : To sit, post up, hide, in the opposing teams spawn - self explanatory

Spawn Suppression : To establish a perimeter around the enemy teams spawn - self explanatory

Lets see, lets combine Spawn Kill and Spawn Camp together. Hmmm, well I guess I would be in the other teams Spawn, so that elimates and question of where I would be, and I suppose since I'm in the other teams spawn I would take advantage and kill the other team as they spawn, thusly Spawn Kill.

That sounds pretty good to me, in fact I think that sound just about perfect and isn't vague in any areas and I used my definitions.

Doesn't mean one can't Spawn Kill outside of the other teams spawn, but yet the defintion doesn't specify where the act is done. The Spawn Camp definition states very specifically that a player is in the other teams spawn, which leaves out room for error of location.

It does not matter if they play the Sharpshooter as much as you, more than you, less than you. They still play the game and they know how they like to play. If they didn't like Sharpshooter I suppose they wouldn't play it.

Thank you for demonstarting that you have no idea what your writing about. Glad to see though, through your own definitions and question that even I'm not a spawn killer. That is a load off my mind. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

joyousguard

11-02-2007, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Jermtheory:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joyousguard:
Similiar is the definition of spawnkilling. You made mention that to spawn kill means "To kill a enemy as soon as he/she spawns". So the question becomes, if I wait a split second after they respawn it is not considered "immediate"? My trigger finger is not pressed immediately and my bullets do not kill them immediately so it must not be a spawn kill? If you shoot someone running around in their own spawn is this too a "spawn kill"? What area is considered the "spawn"? How large is this area?

I think you get the point but if you wish I can go through the same thing for each defintion.

Here lies part of the problem because for me and you the definition of what constitutes "spawn killing", a "spawn kill", a "spawn zone" etc. etc.... is relative to each individual or group of players because it is not really defined by the game itself.

Now in regards to the question in your poll: "When you play Team Sharpshooter do you like to spawn kill?" If I shoot someone running around within their respawn is this considered a spawn kill? The terminology becomes blurred because the term "spawn zone" is often refered to as such a large ambiguous area that technically people who are posted up in their own respawn and are shot actually could be considered getting "spawn killed".

This is one of the reseons why i never liked the artifical rules on non spawn killers. The were obviously too vague and ill defined and the only way youd really know if you broke the rules is if the host yelled at you or...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

the irony. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I particularly love how you continue to point out things you believe you see. Then i explain them again using colors, sparkly objects and lots of wooden blocks and show that you had no idea what you were talking about in the first place, and then you become mysteriously quiet....I THINK I SEE A PATTERN FORMING.

DaisyCuta

11-02-2007, 03:21 PM

I have only ever played sharpshooter and if it is done to me, I will give it back.
Normally I block off spawn exits, or run through their spawn doing a bit of lawn mowing action, until I am caught.
Such is the nature of the beast.
However if the host dose no like spawn killing I will not do it.
To answer the question I will have to say yes.
Do I really like to do it? No.

ubermoob

11-02-2007, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by DaisyCuta:
I have only ever played sharpshooter and if it is done to me, I will give it back.
Normally I block off spawn exits, or run through their spawn doing a bit of lawn mowing action, until I am caught.
Such is the nature of the beast.
However if the host dose no like spawn killing I will not do it.
To answer the question I will have to say yes.
Do I really like to do it? No. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

That's about the way it goes. In GRAW 2 the only truly viable tactic is spawn suppression. The mandatory invulnerability makes killing people as they spawn impossible. I don't think that is unfair. If you are playing with a good team you should be able to push people back into their spawn and keep them there. If you are playing on a team with a few good people then you will have a very hard time doing this because it requires a lot of skill and coordination. I think it is much more challenging to suppress people in their spawn than it is to stand there and shoot them as they spawn.

I have played SS against some really good teams. Teams capable of pushing you back into your spawn and keeping you there no matter what map you are on.

I pose these questions:
(1) Have you practiced Spawn Suppression ?
(2) Can you successfully conduct Spawn Suppression ?

If you can answer yes to both of those questions would you please elaborate a little bit on why you dislike this tactic.

klownsnypr

11-03-2007, 01:21 AM

MxSkanduhLESxM:
What you say and what you can prove are two different things. It may be true that you took a poll and it turned out that way but there is no concrete proof that such a poll ever took place.

Although here as we speak here is a poll with such evidence, true the demographic is "smaller" but you would have to consider these players that take there game a little more seriously than those who aren't on these forums.

joyousguard:
Only those who refuse to think outside the box and attempt to see how the other thinks responds in the manner that you do. You are threatened by my seemingly unthreating poll and my opionions and ideals but I have yet to say one Anti-spawnkilling thing in my thread or yours.

You are upset that things aren't going the way the way you want them to be, but this is a opinion based poll. People are entitled to their opinions and their ideas, but you have a problem with this it seems.

The other people that have read, skimmed, voted on this thread haven't voiced any concerns over the poll or over the definitions that I typed up. You and your colleague are the only ones that have a problem although this is by far an anti-spawnkilling thread.

I have wasted enough time trying to explain myself to you. There is no since to try to explain things to you since you do not wish to open your eyes and see things in a different way. My line of thinking in this matter is not very complicated, although for you it seems it is. That being said, this is as far this conversation is going.

klownsnypr

11-03-2007, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by ubermoob:
I pose these questions:
(1) Have you practiced Spawn Suppression ? Yes
(2) Can you successfully conduct Spawn Suppression ? Depends on the team I am on, but yes normally I/we can.

Good questions

MxSkanduhLESxM

11-03-2007, 01:51 AM

there are teams that never leave the spawn.. so if they are never going to leave.. they are suppressed. THEY ACTUALLY choose to keep themselves suppressed?

this is the first time i've ever played this game where a majority of teams keep themselves suppressed (meaning: they never leave the spawn area)..

why is this?

its simply becuz.. they have invulnerability...AND they have the opportunity to spawn behind you (outside the spawn WITH 5 second shield) if you get them off their campy spots in the back corners of the map.

this is an exploit.

this is why the invulnerability timer needs to be optional.. it's one thing spawning in the middle of map behind the people that properly flanked a sniper's position, but it's a totally different thing when you get to spawn behind everyone with an invulnerability shield on.

the new system promotes spawn camping (in the sense of never leaving the spawn).

MxSkanduhLESxM

11-03-2007, 07:21 AM

i dont really have to prove my poll. go on xboxlive and ask the people playing sharpshooter.

ESPECIALLY the ones running rooms other than RIVERBANK and HEADQUARTERS.

Jermtheory

11-03-2007, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by joyousguard:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jermtheory:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joyousguard:
Similiar is the definition of spawnkilling. You made mention that to spawn kill means "To kill a enemy as soon as he/she spawns". So the question becomes, if I wait a split second after they respawn it is not considered "immediate"? My trigger finger is not pressed immediately and my bullets do not kill them immediately so it must not be a spawn kill? If you shoot someone running around in their own spawn is this too a "spawn kill"? What area is considered the "spawn"? How large is this area?

I think you get the point but if you wish I can go through the same thing for each defintion.

Here lies part of the problem because for me and you the definition of what constitutes "spawn killing", a "spawn kill", a "spawn zone" etc. etc.... is relative to each individual or group of players because it is not really defined by the game itself.

Now in regards to the question in your poll: "When you play Team Sharpshooter do you like to spawn kill?" If I shoot someone running around within their respawn is this considered a spawn kill? The terminology becomes blurred because the term "spawn zone" is often refered to as such a large ambiguous area that technically people who are posted up in their own respawn and are shot actually could be considered getting "spawn killed".

This is one of the reseons why i never liked the artifical rules on non spawn killers. The were obviously too vague and ill defined and the only way youd really know if you broke the rules is if the host yelled at you or...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

the irony. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I particularly love how you continue to point out things you believe you see. Then i explain them again using colors, sparkly objects and lots of wooden blocks and show that you had no idea what you were talking about in the first place, and then you become mysteriously quiet....I THINK I SEE A PATTERN FORMING. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif-more "sparkly objects" so you can comprehend my feelings.

just trying to help.

nothing mysterious about it.just get tired of reading your blather and need a break.

the irony in your post can be found with a quick look at "the other thread".

klownsnypr

11-03-2007, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Jermtheory:
the irony in your post can be found with a quick look at "the other thread".

I like how my little catch phrase caught on so fast, or the lack thereof.

MxSkanduhLESxM, respawn invulernability was but in for a reason which was explained by the, at the time, Head of RSE development: Serellan. He writes:

Originally posted by Serellan:
It was taken out because it was unfair. The RULES of he game contributed to a terrible experience for a percentage of players, and broke gameplay (why bother trying to capture the center zone in HH when you could just spawn camp?). Thus, the rules of the game were adjusted.
But since it seems that you have those goggles which was stated in the other thread by Safrole. I have no use for that petty squabble and forgot about your stance on this matter and feel sorry that I have wasted my time, and the time of the readers, on you and your lifepartner.

I wonder if the AA demo is a representation of what is to come. Although I appreciate the game for its total realism, except for the whole killing aspect, I feel that it is going to be a great game for GR veterans of the old guard.

Although I didn't play the Beta COD4 looks like it would be a great game to play. Graphics look great and the hardcore mode sounds like something I could get into.

DaisyCuta

11-04-2007, 12:29 AM

Reply to ubermoob:
"In GRAW 2 the only truly viable tactic is spawn suppression."

I agree with this tactic holy and with the right people and co-operation, as you have pointed out, this is one of the most effective tactics to use.

To answer your question it is a definite,

(1) Have you practiced Spawn Suppression ? ( Yes )
(2) Can you successfully conduct Spawn Suppression ? ( Yes )

To reply to your statement:
"If you can answer yes to both of those questions would you please elaborate a little bit on why you dislike this tactic."

I could have been a bit more clearer in my original post, however I was referring to the question ask for the poll; As it was laid out.

The poll question, is a simple yes or no to spawn killing, in effect not leaving much room to cover other tactics, such as spawn suppression, as a viable method of play.
Hence, putting it under the same banner as, Spawn Rapping.

Spawn rapping is what I was referring to, when I stated my dislike.
"Do I really like to do it? No."
However in the first part of my post, I allowed for the enviable outcome of this happening, because in some rooms this is common practice and in which case I will return the favor, once first blood has been spilled.

I Therefore fall inline with your view:
"I think it is much more challenging to suppress people in their spawn than it is to stand there and shoot them as they spawn."
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

texasironhorse

11-04-2007, 08:06 PM

Whether you like to spawn kill or not it should still be an option as it has been in other Recons.

xDIRTY_H4RRYx

11-05-2007, 01:31 AM

Well...despite the various preferences indicated by various people on this forum, it is the developers that set the rules and not the players. If they decide that spawnkilling has no place in this game then it is NOT a viable tactic whatever your various opinions. Just like the way they took headbutting out of the UFC there will be no more spawnkilling in this series. So Joyous Guard, it's time to change your name to Grumpy Guard and deal with it...

BS PALADIN

11-05-2007, 02:55 AM

Why not use this system?

Each map is marked with zones opposite each other. So zone A1 is in the north and A2 is in the south, B1 is southwest and B2 is northeast etc.. Team one starts at A1 and team two at A2 then after say 60 seconds the spawns switch to another set of spawns, say C1 ( west ) and C2( east ). After 60 the spawns swap againand so on.This ensures that the whole map is used, the gameplay doesnt become stagnant and that players need to constantly re-adjust their positions due to constant flanking. The order in which the spawns swap must be random though.

Kinda eliminates all problems. Plus makes the game more skillfull, tactical and fluid.

joyousguard

11-05-2007, 08:43 AM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
MxSkanduhLESxM:
What you say and what you can prove are two different things. It may be true that you took a poll and it turned out that way but there is no concrete proof that such a poll ever took place.

Although here as we speak here is a poll with such evidence, true the demographic is "smaller" but you would have to consider these players that take there game a little more seriously than those who aren't on these forums.

joyousguard:
Only those who refuse to think outside the box and attempt to see how the other thinks responds in the manner that you do.The "ability to think outside the box" is completely moronic statement in the context you have put it in. It is painfully obvious that I can see exactly what you have said and thus spent my time correcting your errors in logica, reason and simple structure. If i did not see your point of view it is most obvious that i could not have done so. You are threatened by my seemingly unthreating poll and my opionions and ideals but I have yet to say one Anti-spawnkilling thing in my thread or yours. On the contrary, it seems that you are the one who has felt threatened, I on the other hand mearly pointed out the flaws in your poll and structure of your entire argument. If i was threatend by your argument i would not attack your methodology.

You are upset that things aren't going the way the way you want them to be, but this is a opinion based poll. People are entitled to their opinions and their ideas, but you have a problem with this it seems.

The other people that have read, skimmed, voted on this thread haven't voiced any concerns over the poll or over the definitions that I typed up. You and your colleague are the only ones that have a problem although this is by far an anti-spawnkilling thread.If they have not seen the obvious mistakes in your line of reasoning, I am not surprised in the least. Some of us happen to be very logical and reasonable when it comes to gathering supporting evidence. I could get a majority of people to respond to a poll in any manner I so choose if i word it correctly. I could get the vast majority of people to say they love hilter. 

I have wasted enough time trying to explain myself to you. There is no since to try to explain things to you since you do not wish to open your eyes and see things in a different way. My line of thinking in this matter is not very complicated, although for you it seems it is. That being said, this is as far this conversation is going. No your line of thinking is not very complicated. On the contrary, it is very simple and very, very illogical to the point of which I would have to spend hours talking with you about how to form a logical rational argument before you could even attempt to justify your position. Its not the simplicty of your postings but the fact that they are so full of holes I could drain spagheti in it.

joyousguard

11-05-2007, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by xDIRTY_H4RRYx:
Well...despite the various preferences indicated by various people on this forum, it is the developers that set the rules and not the players. If they decide that spawnkilling has no place in this game then it is NOT a viable tactic whatever your various opinions. Just like the way they took headbutting out of the UFC there will be no more spawnkilling in this series. So Joyous Guard, it's time to change your name to Grumpy Guard and deal with it...
The developers are in charge of meeting the expectations and desires of those who have purchased and will purchase their video games. 3rd person was requested and asked for so they have incorporated it into the game. They try to meet the requests of the gamming community.

Well, many in the gaming community like the option to spawn kill and wish for it to be returned. This is failure of the devolpers to meet the desires of a substantial portion of the gamming community especially considering it was a staple of the Ghost Recon franchise for so long. Several of us our here representing that large portion of the Recon community that we have talked with who do not post on the forums who would like the game to return the invulnerability to optional

klownsnypr

11-05-2007, 10:10 AM

What you keep on failing to realize is that Sharpshooter and Spawnkilling were never originally part of the Ghost Recon Series. If it were there would have been a Sharpshooter Gametype put into Ghost Recon and Island Thunder.

Let me educate you a bit on this matter. In Ghost Recon there is a gametype called Last Man Standing and in Last Man Standing you only had one life to live until the next game. Later in the games life, after launch, players found out that one can allow respawns in LMS. Since LMS was not initially built for respawns, but the option was there, it allowed for a Spawn Rape that no player on knows of, unless of course you played the game.

In Island Thunder Sharpshooter was not a gametype but players quickly caught on to changing the settings just like the title before. However the Spawnpoints were placed a little bit better but in fact made Spawn Rapeing alot worse since players could be individually killed instead of in a group.

Back then I was known by the name PcSniper and I did enjoy Spawnkilling. Players would often leave as soon as I pop in the room because they disliked me so much. I gained a reputation of being a SoB when it came to Spawn Killing. Rarely would I ever get spawnkilled, or even rarer to get raped, since I was often better than those trying to spawnkill me. Back then it was alot easier to spawnkill players since if you got hit you were dead, none of this 6 .308 rounds to the chest and you keep on going.

I did after time get very bored of this gametype and migrated over to Siege and LMS for something a little bit more challenging and team oriented. To say that I am an anti-spawnkilling ***** is extremely far from the truth as my stance on the matter has been if you don't like to get spawnkillied don't play sharpshooter, when it became a gametype. My stance has always been that and always will be.

But since you are fairly new to this forum and to the Ghost Recon I forgive you of your past transgressions. But since this poll has nothing to do with an option to allow or disallow respawn invulnerability I wonder why you actually in this thread. This poll is about whether or not people who play Sharpshooter like to spawnkill, which is defined clearly, and not on their stance of spawnkilling. Although their stance could cloud their judgement on this matter it is still their right to vote any way they wish to.

joyousguard

11-05-2007, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
What you keep on failing to realize is that Sharpshooter and Spawnkilling were never originally part of the Ghost Recon Series. Sharpshooter was not originally part of the GR franchise, this is true. However, sharpshooter was the de facto game type created when LMS was given multiple respawns.If it were there would have been a Sharpshooter Gametype put into Ghost Recon and Island Thunder.Spawnkilling was most definetly part of the original Ghost Recon because a large amount of rooms played with infinite respawns thus spawnkilling was most definetly a part of the original game. Just because you yourself did not play that particular type of game does not mean it was not included in the game itself.

Let me educate you a bit on this matter. In Ghost Recon there is a gametype called Last Man Standing and in Last Man Standing you only had one life to live until the next game. Later in the games life, after launch, players found out that one can allow respawns in LMS. Since LMS was not initially built for respawns, but the option was thereIf the option was there than it was built for it. Your argument is self defeating. If it was an option, it was built into the game. If your trying to say that spawnkilling was not built into the game, that is an entirely different argument, it allowed for a Spawn Rape that no player on knows of, unless of course you played the game.Your logic makes absolutely zero sense to the point of witch you must clean this up before i respond.

In Island Thunder Sharpshooter was not a gametype but players quickly caught on to changing the settings just like the title before. However the Spawnpoints were placed a little bit better but in fact made Spawn Rapeing alot worse since players could be individually killed instead of in a group.

Back then I was known by the name PcSniper and I did enjoy Spawnkilling. Players would often leave as soon as I pop in the room because they disliked me so much. I gained a reputation of being a SoB when it came to Spawn Killing. Rarely would I ever get spawnkilled, or even rarer to get raped, since I was often better than those trying to spawnkill me. Back then it was alot easier to spawnkill players since if you got hit you were dead, none of this 6 .308 rounds to the chest and you keep on going.Thank you for bragging about your skill at OGR but noone really cares.

I did after time get very bored of this gametype and migrated over to Siege and LMS for something a little bit more challenging and team oriented. To say that I am an anti-spawnkilling ***** is extremely far from the truth as my stance on the matter has been if you don't like to get spawnkillied don't play sharpshooter, when it became a gametype. My stance has always been that and always will be.

But since you are fairly new to this forum and to the Ghost Recon I forgive you of your past transgressions. New to the forums, yes..new to Recon, no. Before you start giving absolution for sins you think people have commited please learn how to formulate an idea completely and fully before you commit it to writtingBut since this poll has nothing to do with an option to allow or disallow respawn invulnerability I wonder why you actually in this thread. This poll is about whether or not people who play Sharpshooter like to spawnkill, which is defined clearly, and not on their stance of spawnkilling. Although their stance could cloud their judgement on this matter it is still their right to vote any way they wish to. Do you even bother to read what i write, or do you just glance over things and maake it up as you go along. I am definetly seeing a pattern here on these forums. Many of you never bother to read a post and simply respond to things that have not been said or omit things that were said. FOR THE LEARNING IMPAIRED: I CRITIQUED YOUR POLL ON METHODOLOGY AND SUBSTANCE NOT ON ANY DISAGREEMENT WITH SPAWNKILLING OR ANY OTHER FACTOR. I STATED VERY CLEARLY THAT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK WHATEVER YOU WANT, BUT YOU CLEALRY DO NOT BOTHER TO READ ANYON'ES POSTS AND CONTINE TO RESPOND IN THE MOST UNEDUCATED, ILLOGICAL AND ILLRATIONAL MANNER I HAVE YET COME ACCROSS ON THESE FORUMS. PLEASE LEARN HOW TO FORM ONE SINGLE COHERENT THOUGHT THAT DOES NOT CONTRADICT ITSELF BEFORE THE PERIOD IS ATTACHED TO THE END OF THE FIRST SENTENCE. MY GOD, ID LIKE TO HAVE A DISCUSSION NOT A CLASS IN BASIC ENGLISH AND LOGIC. EITHER LEARN HOW TO HAVE A CONVERSATION OR GO SIT AT THE LITTLE KIDS TABLE. I HAVE RESPONDED TO EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID AND RESONABLY AND LOGICALLY PROEN YOU IN ERROR BUT YOU NEVER BOTHER TO READ THE POSTS. EITHER STEP UP TO THE PLATE OR FIND SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAN CONVEY YOUR SCRAMBLED THOUGTHS INTO SOMETHING UNDERSTANDABLE

klownsnypr

11-05-2007, 11:18 AM

Sorry, I don't read those statements which are understood to be yelling on the internet, thusly the forum rule. My arguement is still sound and my poll still accurate, my definitions are understood and have been widely accepted since Ghost Recon. But sense you are on your own imagninary moral high ground there is no sense to try to explain that which you do not wish to understand and comprehend. You have the methodology that everyone else is wrong and you are right and that is where your fault is, Pride.

But since this is a dead thread and I have moved on from your childishness to other better things such as the next Ghost Recon title there is no need to waste efforts on you anymore. However you know that I am right and yet you keep on failing to mention, or perhaps even realize, that we are on the same side and you are in fact a Benedict Arnold.

joyousguard

11-05-2007, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
Sorry, I don't read those statements which are understood to be yelling on the internet, thusly the forum rule.It has nothing to do with yelling, but everything to do with emphasis. My arguement is still sound and my poll still accurate, my definitions are understood and have been widely accepted since Ghost Recon. Your arguments are sound to anyone with a concussion, brain damage or who has no idea how to formulate a rational staement or question.But sense you are on your own imagninary moral high ground there is no sense to try to explain that which you do not wish to understand and comprehend. This has nothing whatsoever to do with morality....nothing whatsoever. I have not questioned anyone' morality nor has it ever been brought up erroneously till now. Will you please stop throwing around words of which you have no understanding of their meaning. My comprehension and understanding are limited to your ability to portray your arguments in a rational, logical and well formulated manner. You have not done so. I have critiqued everyone of your conclusions and methods and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you have no idea what you are talking about nor can you express yourself in a manner consistent with any reasonable coherence.You have the methodology that everyone else is wrong and you are right and that is where your fault is, Pride.Again, you have no idea what methodology is do you? You confuse methodology with intent. please learn to use words properly or look them up before you embarrass yourself more

But since this is a dead thread and I have moved on from your childishness to other better things such as the next Ghost Recon title there is no need to waste efforts on you anymore. However you know that I am right and yet you keep on failing to mention, or perhaps even realize, that we are on the same side and you are in fact a Benedict Arnold. Again, I wish you would use words, terms, names in the proper context and not throw out any random name that you think sounds good. If i believed you were right, iwould agreed with you. I have no problem agreeing with people who are right. But since I have painstakingly documented almost every instance of your flawed argument it would be safe to say that you ar enot right. You have not responded to my critiques but simply side step them and move on indicating that you are either unwilling to do so or incapable to so. I would suspect the later because its very obvious that you do not even understand the defintions of the simplest terms.

klownsnypr

11-05-2007, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by joyousguard:
My comprehension and understanding are limited to your ability to portray your arguments in a rational, logical and well formulated manner.

Incorrect, You comprehension is only limited to your brain compacity and what you wish you understand or are willing to understand. But there is no reason to argue with you since you do not "comprehend" my stance.

Benedict Arnold.

joyousguard

11-05-2007, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joyousguard:
My comprehension and understanding are limited to your ability to portray your arguments in a rational, logical and well formulated manner.

Incorrect, You comprehension is only limited to your brain compacity and what you wish you understand or are willing to understand. But there is no reason to argue with you since you do not "comprehend" my stance. One can not comprehend the incomprehensible. Again, you have side stepped every critique I have made of your argument. You refuse to respond to issues that have been brought up concerning your argument and dismiss them with explaination that people simple do not understand them. This is not how a discussion or argument works. I have read your arguments and responses and posted my critques point by point. You have followed by not reading those critiques, inserting things that were never said, omitting other points that I made, then dismissing the rest as simple ignorance on my part. Once again, stop running, read through my posts and start responding to my comments point for point. I have shown you that courtesy, at least you could respond in a like manner instead of running.

Benedict Arnold. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

MxSkanduhLESxM

11-05-2007, 03:25 PM

Dirty and Klown...

there are 2points I would like to make:

1. So what if the developers decided something!....i could use that same logic toward GR2 thru GRAW1... the developers decided to have an option for no invulnerability/spawnkilling: yet people cried and had options taken away.... the Developers decided to get rid of the ghillie suit... and there is an obvious outcry for it's return.

in no way does our request for an option OR a ghillie suit ruin the game.. so why is there so much hostility toward the return of an option?

2. Klown.... our point is... from OGR to GRAW2... we, the community, had the ability to play the game we wanted to. WE TWEAKED THE SETTINGS and played the game the way we wanted to play it.

Ubi realized this (that people were tweaking settings) so they changed multiplayer to a system where the user was in control... not the developer. Sharpshooter and Spawnkilling were obviously popular gamer-created settings.. so ubi embraced it and ADDED it to the next games.

by tweaking the options... sharpshooter and spawnkilling were born... along with games like "PRESIDENT/ ASSASSIN/ ETC"....

there is no option for PRESIDENT.. or even a gamemode... but people play it.... becuz we choose to play it...we have the option to play it....

now it seems ubi is going backwards and taking away certain options. we can't choose where we spawn in solo elim, we can't choose where we spawn in sharpshooter, we can't choose to spawnkill or not, we can't choose to be invulnerable or not....

i liked it better when we were FREE to choose.
that is what I am arguing for.

people HAVE played this way since the OGR... it doesnt matter that it wasnt built in.. what mattered was that the OPTION WAS THERE FOR IT TO BE PLAYED the way we wanted to. we played it HOW we wanted to play it SINCE the BEGINNING... so why the sudden authority?

instead of pandering to the crybabies.. why couldnt ubi just tell them to create their own rooms... or better yet.. make a new game mode for the non spawn killers to play in?

spawnkilling is not a cheat if both teams CAN do it. spawnkilling only sucks when one team doesn't want to.and the other team does. 2 different tastes playing the same game. separate them and we can all be happy.

if you just so happen to find yourself in a PRESIDENT room or a SPAWNKILLING room and you don't want to play with such settings... just leave.... why do people come on these boards and complain about spawnkilling if they can just leave? OR they can just play LMS or SIEGE? if i found myself in a President room, i'm not gonna cry ....UBISOFT force them to keep the teams even.. force them to stop limiting my weapon choice... force them use the drones.. force them to blah blah blah. .wah wah wah. i would just leave and let the COMMUNITY play the way they want to play.

all those tears and time wasted on these boards could have been time well spent finding a different room or hosting your OWN match with your OWN settings. that's the difference between now and then.

before we could leave the room and make a room that we wanted to.

now with options being forced or taken away.. i dont get the same freedom.

as people requested to have invulnerability forced... i'm requesting it to return as an option for the next game.

all the hostility towards me... people act as if i'm asking for UBI to force no invulnerability.. no.. i'm asking for an OPTION.

there's a difference between people asking for forced options and asking for more options.

selfish vs. unselfish.

this game is gonna go in the garbage if it keeps going down the road of being forced.

rainbow six sucks becuz we cant turn off armor.. we cant turn off the radar.

is this what people want? a game that we have no control over?

klownsnypr

11-05-2007, 04:16 PM

Why do you guys think I am so opposed to what you are wanting. I have been supporting your right to have that option for a while. But your thread and this thread aren't the same and thusly don't see why you are posting here since it has no bearing on your thread whatsoever.

This poll is asking those who play sharpshooter if they like to spawnkill. But yet you keep circling around to your topic which my poll is not about. You say my poll is biased but it is not. Who cares if they are totally against spawnkilling, I would then assume that they don't like spawnkilling and thusly whould vote that way.

However I was making a point to a friend of mine who reads these forums. Joyousguard did prove my point over and over again many a time and has shown his hand as well. That being said since my point was made to my friend and understanding the kind of person Joyousguard is I will no longer responding to posts in this thread.

MxSkanduhLESxM

11-05-2007, 04:27 PM

my bad.. i was just addressing the point about we want to have control back.

the rest of my rant wasnt really directed to you.
just the first part. i guess i should have put a number 3 in there somwhere.

joyousguard

11-06-2007, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by klownsnypr:
Why do you guys think I am so opposed to what you are wanting. I have been supporting your right to have that option for a while. But your thread and this thread aren't the same and thusly don't see why you are posting here since it has no bearing on your thread whatsoever.

This poll is asking those who play sharpshooter if they like to spawnkill. But yet you keep circling around to your topic which my poll is not about. You say my poll is biased but it is not. Correction....biased and flawed.Who cares if they are totally against spawnkilling, I would then assume that they don't like spawnkilling and thusly whould vote that way.

However I was making a point to a friend of mine who reads these forums. Joyousguard did prove my point over and over again many a time and has shown his hand as well. There is no possibility of me ever proving or validating your point because I have mostly critiqued your logical framework and structure. The only point I could havevalidated was if you stated that you have no idea how to think logicaly. Then I would be supporting your point.That being said since my point was made to my friend and understanding the kind of person Joyousguard is I will no longer responding to posts in this thread.That's okay, I'll switch threads and pick up right where the conversation left off....with you running, desperately trying not to defend anything you have written.