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Ravenjunkie
12-01-2004, 06:04 AM
I hope it's not built like GR2. IMO GR2 ruined the series. I really dont know why ubi is doig this to there games. Is there a new generation of gamers now that just dont care or even know whats going on?

I swear I wish the orininal developers of R6 leave UBI to form there own company and continue with a series of there own.

It is clearly obvious that the quality of ubi's games and dramatic gameplay has taken a backwards trend over the last few titles.

Whats even more sad is people continue to buy the garbage.

xC.DemonKnight
12-01-2004, 06:37 AM
no cause ive seen no where that its coming for pc ive only seen xbox and ps2 and neither one online is fun

fubarnzl
12-01-2004, 07:25 AM
well it says on the front page its going for ps2 xbox and pc

qoute from main page
SAN FRANCISCO, CA €" November 30, 2004 €" Ubisoft, one of the world€s largest video game publishers, today announced its plans to launch the next installment in the Tom Clancy€s Rainbow Six franchise for the Sony Playstation&reg:2 computer entertainment system, Xbox video game system from Microsoft and the PC in Spring 2005.
-----------------------------------------

i personaly after seeing the screen shots for ps2 think it looks like ****

the graphics are plain
the actors are boxy
i know it is for ps2 and like xbox are running at low resolution and detail doesnt cut it

i will be waiting untill well after the release if id even think bout getting it and same with iron wraith, no way after ubi killing the r6 and gr games am i NOT going to rush out and buy a beta untested (well you would think it was untested)game.

i really do hope they can improve the r6 games
rvs wasnt to bad for me but the blocking of real mods not mapping they have pointed me in the right direction HL2
HL2 as sp was boring,textures where plain,walls where to flat, no door frames,or window frames but i got it for the mods that are going to come out,
why becoz valve support there customer by releasing the sdk

Tomus
12-01-2004, 07:46 AM
To be fair both the X-Box versions of R6 and Ghost Recon 2 are good games in their own right. However they are not in the same league as the original R6 or GR series. Unfortunately I get the impression that the whole series is slowly travelling down the "Action Shooter" route. And its dumbing down the series massively. I have read some reviews of GR2 in some of the XBox mags and they really treat the game as the absolute height of shooter sophistcation its almost as if the PC versions do not and have never existed.

I truly hope that us PC folk can keep what we liked, the planning, the kit choices, waypoints etc etc and I take hope from the fact that the Ghost Recon 2 PC Release is a long way off yet. So potentially we could get the GR that we all wanted. If Rainbow Six Four goes the way of the X-Box version for the PC then it will be a sad day for gaming.

I can't see why they can't split the series and have the PC and console versions developed seperately.

xC.DemonKnight
12-01-2004, 07:55 AM
ok just saw where it said xbox and ps2 dunno if i care much for seeing the googles watched the teaser video on 3dgamers and i hope there is a way to turn those off

FI_FlimFlam
12-01-2004, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tomus:
Unfortunately I get the impression that the whole series is slowly travelling down the "Action Shooter" route. And its dumbing down the series massively. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely agree with you. It's beacuse of the need to have mass market appeal and sell as many copies on the consoles as possible. Lets face it, an action shooter is going to sell a heck of alot more copies than a game where you have to spen 10-20 minutes planning your route and setting up way points and go codes. It just doesn't appeal to most of todays A.D.D. society. Especially on when the focus is a console game. If you had to do that it would probably be a death sentence for a game on the consoles. It would end up in the bargin bin in a month.

Also look at the limitations of the gamepad verses keyboard. You just have so many buttons and that inherently is going to place limitations on the game design. Sure you can add button combo, or menu options but that is going to make the game harder or slow down the game play and take away from the faster pace they are wanting for this game. Trust that faster pace is definitely what they wanted for GR2 and they completely changed the game because of it. Some like it and diehard fans don't.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I truly hope that us PC folk can keep what we liked, the planning, the kit choices, waypoints etc etc and I take hope from the fact that the Ghost Recon 2 PC Release is a long way off yet. So potentially we could get the GR that we all wanted. If Rainbow Six Four goes the way of the X-Box version for the PC then it will be a sad day for gaming.

I can't see why they can't split the series and have the PC and console versions developed seperately. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that is going to happen. Too much $$. Much easier to just port a console game to the PC than to develop a completely different one for the PC.

I really think the new RVS is going to essentially be GR2 with different window dressing. In otherwords different maps and character models but engine and gameplay will be essentially the same with some minor differences. The description of your team and team command so far sounds exactly the same. Also the release date is so close to GR2 and they have been developed in tandem by Redstorm I think odds are I'm right. I also don't expect them to spend the time adding or changing content for the PC. I doubt they would take the time or the money to do that unfortunately. I'm sure some exec at UBI just sees it as a waste of $$ and resources. Of course only time will tell but I do not expect to be surprised especially considering the lack of (and quality of) support for the current PC version, RvS. Which is a great indicator of just their commitment and opinion of the PC gaming side of RvS.

XsargenX
12-01-2004, 09:10 AM
"I can't see why they can't split the series and have the PC and console versions developed seperately."

UHmm BT posted that Redstorm is developing R64 pc version and UBi is focusing on The consoles! come on guys do alittle reading! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

FI_FlimFlam
12-01-2004, 10:05 AM
There's a preview on Gamespot:
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox/action/tomclancysrainbowsix4/preview_6114141.html

It's an interesting read.

No mention of a PC title whatsoever. XBOX multiplayer is going to be drastic departure from what we are used to.

Persistent world and character. Skills and experience points. Character classes (one that can use deployable turrets - imagine that in a ladder match), and money for purchasing equipment and upgrades sounding similar to Counterstrike.

Read it and make up your own opinion.

CNR_Morten
12-01-2004, 10:10 AM
These games seems to be made for consoles first!!, then converted it to PC!!, and the Arcadish style you get from console games is what im afraid of!!.
Cause it seems most games from now on is gonna be converted from consoles to PC, and not the other way around http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif.
Only time will tell how that is gonna turn out, but I fear that GR2 and R64 is gonna be too consolised/arcadish for the PC gamers, even tho Red storm makes both games for PC!!.

FI_FlimFlam
12-01-2004, 10:30 AM
Think of it this way Morten. Think in dollars and cents and return on investment. A console game is going to make alot more money than a PC one unless it's a major A list title like Doom3 or HL2. Which took years and millions of dollars to develop - not months to 1 year like the the current crop of console games.

With consoles they aren't concerned with pushing technological barrier or developing new graphics engines ala ID and Valve.

They have only one hardware platform per console brand to develop for. Unlike a PC where they at least have to test compatibility for multiple configurations. They have a set developement enviornment. Once they make a game for a console, consecutive games are going to be easier to code for. So development costs for the game is most probably going to be a good deal less than for a PC. Also for the most part once a game is released on a console there is virtually no need for ongoing support for the game. No patches. Maybe for the XBOX they might have some downloadable content but they don't have to have that. For the GameCube or PS2 that doesn't have a harddrive you cannot patch the game. Any bugs found after the release are there for good. The developer doesn't need to maintain a staff of technical support for a game - unlike a PC game where patches are the norm.

If you want to make the most money possible you are going to develop for consoles which now are probably in as many or more homes than computers nowadays. They are going to save the money develop it on the console and then port it to the PC if they want to put the money into it.

I hate it myself since I much prefer PC gaming to console.

Mx21
12-01-2004, 10:33 AM
I'm worried the game will be another buggy RvS like shambles personally and arcadey.

LT.INSTG8R
12-01-2004, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CNR_Morten:
These games a all made for consoles first!!, then you have to convert it to PC!!, and the Arcadish style you get from console games is what im afraid of!!.
Cause it seems most games from now on is gonna be converted from consoles to PC, and not the other way around http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif.
Only time will tell how that is gonna turn out, but I fear that GR2 and R64 is gonna be too consolised/arcadish for the PC gamers, even tho Red storm makes both games for PC!!. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree its so sad that these games have been flipped to Console FIRST PC SECOND I mean GR for Console came out well into GR for PCs lifespan and it seems they found something with that and are sticking to it and us PC Gamers are gettin the Short End of a stick that WE Sharpened

Ofcr_Lawless
12-01-2004, 10:53 AM
Just wondering, has anyone seen anything showing that they are indeed going to port this for a console? Or is it just people stating this because they are pissed about RvS 3 and just starting rumors for the sake of starting rumors?

Bigdog7700
12-01-2004, 11:31 AM
Lawless I Think they are refering to Rainbow Six 4.

You should have seen UBI's press release on the main RvS web page.

Ofcr_Lawless
12-01-2004, 11:39 AM
Yes, I know. It doesn't say anything about it being "ported" that I saw.
I think "some" are making an assumption to make people be dissapointed for no reason.
If it's true, then yes, but does anyone have ANYTHING that shows this to be the case??

If not, it is just a rumor.

CNR_Morten
12-01-2004, 12:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ofcr_Lawless:
Yes, I know. It doesn't say anything about it being "ported" that I saw.
I think "some" are making an assumption to make people be dissapointed for no reason.
If it's true, then yes, but does anyone have ANYTHING that shows this to be the case??

If not, it is just a rumor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are,reffering to my post I have edited it so I hope it doesnt reflect the things you say!!, I wasnt trying to dissapoint anybody or make assumtions of any upcomming UBI release.
It was written in a bit of a hurry and english is not my mother tongue.

Ofcr_Lawless
12-01-2004, 01:02 PM
It wasn't directed specifically at you CNR_Morten,
it has been an idea that I saw snowballing into what others percieved as the truth. I just wanted to make sure that before everyone started going crazy flaming UBI/RSE for porting this game to PC from Console, the truth was told.

Thanks though.

FI_FlimFlam
12-01-2004, 01:43 PM
For the record I haven't seen anything stating that it will be ported. But the feature and annoucuncement on the first RvS page definitely insinuates that it will be the same game. It doesn't note any differences except that XBOX and PS2 will have different multiplayer components.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Ubisoft...today announced its plans to launch the next installment in the Tom Clancy€s Rainbow Six franchise for the Sony Playstation&reg:2 computer entertainment system, Xbox video game system from Microsoftand the PC in Spring 2005. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> They make it sound like it's going to be the same game. Granted the multiplayer for the XBOX and PS2 are different so perhaps that will hold true for the PC as well (one can only hope). As far as the single player according to Gamespot it's going to be the same on PS2 and XBOX. Combine that with the announcement and it sounds like it's the same for all platforms. Right now given that, I would say it's most probably a port.

It's the most economic way after the work has gone into the console games. I don't think they are going to dedicate a completely separate development team to make the same game on PC that looks and plays the same as the consoles. That would be a huge outlay of extra money just for the PC version. UBI is the publisher, Redstorm the developer but odds are the project is funded by UBI. And we know how UBI is about spending money supporting the PC ver of RvS.... Until we hear differently I'm guessing it's going to be a port. And yes that is an assumption not a fact for those interested. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ofcr_Lawless
12-01-2004, 02:15 PM
Just for the record:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And because it wasn't very clear in the press release, RED STORM is developing the PS2 and PC versions while UBISOFT MONTREAL are developing the Xbox version Happy
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> by BT.

SOF_Timber
12-01-2004, 06:02 PM
I think maybe everybody is "barking up the wrong tree". Don't know if anybody is following (I have from the beginning) the Silent Hunter III game on these forums but Ubi is really not holding back on this game. They asked the community what they wanted (a dynamic campaign) and delayed the game till after Christmas ( the game was suppose to be out in October) to change the game to what the players wanted...there-by missing the xmas shopping season. Ubi made Silent Hunter 2 which was a dud...SH3 looks like it will be a winner.
What I'm trying to say here is that you might be surprised that Ubi actually listens to what you guys have to say on these forums and will invest more time & money to make the game you want. If Redstorm is hired to make R64 it is the 1st step in the right direction. If they follow the same path as SH3, with Ubi's backing, there should be a lot of smiling faces here. Let hope so...

ihatetologin
12-01-2004, 08:43 PM
R6-4 and GR2 already? R6-3 isn't done
and r6-2 is still fun. GR1 is still great
too.

How about a Jagged Alliance 3 (or 4 depending
on how you count) with real people playing
all the characters. In the beginner missions
everyone is a merc. The ones that survive build
a reputation and a bank account so they
can move into a management role. Maybe you
want to make money as an arms dealer? Or you could be a doctor/gunsmith/freelance explosives expert. Call it MercQuest (tm).

Goodsport
12-01-2004, 09:21 PM
By the way, the title of this thread is misleading as there won't be a Raven Shield 2.

The current game is called Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield, its first expansion pack is called Rainbow Six 3: Athena Sword, and the next game in the series will be called Rainbow Six 4: [INSERT TITLE HERE]. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


-G

JackelLND
12-01-2004, 09:31 PM
I'm not worried one iota about the new Rainbow Six game. For those of you who haven't yet developed the creative thinking skills to disect the press release, here is a simplification for your small minds.

UBI is NOT making the PC version.

RSE, who have 3 GOTY tactical shooters under their belt, WILL be making R6:4.

RSE is all about PC Games, and they are NOT going to be dumbing down the PC version.

We haven't heard or seen a single ounce of info about the PC version, everything released so far is for the CONSOLE versions.

Yes, the console versions are dumbed down, partly because most console players are younger, and the controller doesn't allow for overly complex games(and yes, action games sell more.)

RSE is a kick *** developer, all this ******ed hype about it being dumbed down is stupid. I have full faith in RSE to pick this series back up and elevate it to classic status once again.

UberZ3U5
12-01-2004, 09:38 PM
Well i just read the IGN preview. Listen to this,

"Rainbow Six 4 features an online economy where money is earned for succeeding in missions in a fashion similar to Counter-Strike. Between matches you can purchase new armor (which degrades), new weapons, and even new outerwear to better showcase your personality. "

Yeah, thats right, they just compared it to CS. We're screwed. So anyone else wanna start a "migrate to SWAT 4" movement with me?

JackelLND
12-01-2004, 09:43 PM
Oh, you mean the IGN preview for the PS2 version?

If you are willing to leave the game because of a review that isn't even about the same game, then by all means, please do leave for SWAT 4.

UberZ3U5
12-01-2004, 10:06 PM
no, it wasnt the ps2 preview, it was the xbox preview (which isnt much better i know). But their PC preview is nothing to gawk at either. The R6 series is a bastion for the tactical gamer, and im afraid that bastion has fallen to the console heads. If you wanna stay and play some dumbed down action game, thats fine. But i for one am not gonna take it. I want tactical gaming and im going wherever i can find that. If R6 4 fails to deliver, im gone, and ill bet there are a lot of you coming with me.

JackelLND
12-02-2004, 05:16 AM
Their PC Preview was nothing to gawk at for a simple reason:

They don't have one.

The "PC Preview" if you noticed, was just a copy paste from the Xbox preview, because no one knows anything about the PC version yet.

RSE INVENTED the tactical shooter genre. With the rainbow series back under their wing, I highly doubt they are going to turn around and start making games that contradict with what they started.

Tomus
12-02-2004, 08:07 AM
RSE made GR2 and that game is an "Action Shooter with tactical elements" that game is not in the same family as GR1.

Whatever plaudits RSE have earned in the past they seem quite content at the moment travelling down the semi scripted war shooter route rather than pursuing the Strategy Tactical games as before.

We can only hope that by expressing our disatisfaction with the way we perceive the series is going on here that someone will take notice and will produce the game we all want.

BMFD
12-02-2004, 11:31 AM
"A couple of examples of these features include highlighting enemies that might otherwise be difficult to spot and assisting with your aim. "

oh look, now they are building hacks in for the players! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Bigdog7700
12-02-2004, 02:18 PM
There is no ponit in getting all worked up yet we are currently have little information about the pc version of R6 4.

I think we should hold off judgement till we have all the facts.

But I must say UBI's behavior in the past and the fact that RSE is owend by UBI does not make me feel any better.

Their past performance is in the past this is the present.

It is not an independent company as it once was and that makes me a little worried.

UBI still has not dealt with this community fairly and have made promises they have not kept yet.

That is not a good foundation for trust.

casaveli
12-02-2004, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BMFD:
"A couple of examples of these features include highlighting enemies that might otherwise be difficult to spot and assisting with your aim. "

oh look, now they are building hacks in for the players! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

JackelLND
12-02-2004, 05:42 PM
Guys, they haven't even released GR2 for the PC yet. It's being developed by a completely different team, with a completely different engine. Yes, they dumbed it down for the consoles, but it's something they've always done, ever since the start of time. Geez, just wait til the PC version comes out...

T2RVS
12-02-2004, 05:59 PM
Well as all of us know that rain comes and go. so is console games. MOst big title games apart from Halo got their fame from PC before migrating to console.

So if the developer of RVS just wanted to develope games for console let them be. Afterall, there will be more companies sizing the opportunity to create games like RVS if UBi doesn't. Therefore, do not fret my friends, the force is with us! The force of the PC community has the power to determine the life span of the game! (Simple look at games like Sum of all fears- it is dead a dry leaf-why coz the pc community has no go for it)

Look at RVS and CS once the pc community is happy about it and they will rave about it. Probably the developers forget one thing is that PC owners are mostly father of those kids who owns console games. If the dad or mum enjoys the game they will buy a copy for their kids so that their kids will not distract thier pc gameplay. IN another words, console are more for kids and PC are for adults and there is where the $$$$ is.

A free advise to UBI if they are ignorant about it. Cause I am one of those adult.

Whatever it is we shouldn't impose our opinion too hard on Ubi or anyone if they stuff up it is their investment. Trust me for sure if RVS 4 have no pc version or not a good version of the next sequel of RVS 3 then we can wave bye bye to RVS 4.

Goodsport
12-02-2004, 09:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T2RVS:
Trust me for sure if RVS 4 have no pc version or not a good version of the next sequel of RVS 3 then we can wave bye bye to RVS 4. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There won't be an RVS 4... there won't even be an RVS 2 or RVS 3.

You most likely meant Rainbow Six 3 and Rainbow Six 4, respectively. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


-G

Rogue Agent
12-02-2004, 10:47 PM
I think people are over reacting big time. A lot of people thought Ghost Recon 2 was going to be a port. We now know that the pc version is NOT going to be a port. In fact thats the reason why the PC version is being released at least 5 months after the console version. The console version of games are always more arcadish compared to the PC version. Ravenshield for the console is way more arcade like on the console compared to PC. Ghost Recon 1 was also more arcade like on the console as compared to PC. I fully expect the pc version of Rainbow Six 4 to be a more tactical and deeper game than the consol version.

Lastly RSE is making the PC version. So after considering how great Rogue Spear and the original rainbow six was I think we have nothing to worry about. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JackelLND
12-03-2004, 12:48 AM
OMG ty Rogue Agent, there is a sane person on this forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rogue Agent
12-03-2004, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackelLND:
OMG ty Rogue Agent, there is a sane person on this forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

D0GSoldier
12-03-2004, 05:21 PM
I will buy the next rvs only if the following criteria are met:

1. Iron Sights
2. Modability beyond map making so theirs atleast a chance at a getting a realistic shooter out of such a investment, and not just another nice-though-cheaply-repeated-geometry-gunmodels counter strike.

If UBI doesn't do this, then that's fine to...I already got Americas Army which at very moment surpasses all i ever wanted in a freaking realistic first person shooter, and it didn't cost $60 out of my pocket to experience.

Total_Ret
12-07-2004, 03:31 PM
for those that are going to be dissapointed, please check out www.totalretribution.com (http://www.totalretribution.com) and the forums.

its going to be a far better game than what ubi could conjor up. we are going to give them a run for their money, cause they dont seem to care it seems. i hope the PC version has no helmets and cornrolls too. candy coat my game to look COOL to apeal to annother genra to make more money, while still using the same name as a game i loved to play with totaly differnt principals than these new games.

just goes to show that when a developer gets sooooo big, they will do anything they want regardless what anyone says. cause truthfully their are people out their that will buy it, play it for a week and through it out and not care... and they know that.... do they not know about the hardcore commuinity? i dunno. i guess they say certain factors are their for them... but are they really?

will we get patches and support after the release? ohh they always say theirs going to be support, nothing wrong with it is their? NOOOOO of course not, but when they stick a team of a few guys that take forever to do anything and high up managers who dont care cause they have other projects being worked on to deley progress on those... man i dont know what this world is comming to, it comes down to just money, and making the staff work their asses off to make a game fast as possible with a community that expected something better.

well im not so sure on any of this you make your own conclusions, would you rather play a free mod that comes with a bad *** game (HL2, with the www.totalretribution.com (http://www.totalretribution.com) modification) or pay for a game with very little support after release and a compainy that has such bad buisness ethics and very little focus on the real community.

drunk_stone
12-09-2004, 05:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by D0GSoldier:
I will buy the next rvs only if the following criteria are met:

1. Iron Sights
2. Modability beyond map making so theirs atleast a chance at a getting a realistic shooter out of such a investment, and not just another nice-though-cheaply-repeated-geometry-gunmodels counter strike.

If UBI doesn't do this, then that's fine to...I already got Americas Army which at very moment surpasses all i ever wanted in a freaking realistic first person shooter, and it didn't cost $60 out of my pocket to experience. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lord no, please don't leave us, omg everyone will miss you so much if you don't play the next rainbow six game.

PLEASE UBI LISTEN TO THIS MAN!!!

Philipscdrw
12-09-2004, 08:05 PM
Wow - it's like 90% of the people here have less than 50 posts, and about 50% have less than 10! No-one sticks about on the RvS forums then?

Since when have IGN been a reliable source of information?

Ofcr_Lawless
12-10-2004, 07:13 AM
Ya, we're around.
*Oh, maybe I'm the 10% you mentioned...lol*