Zulu go codes in Ghost Recon

[Tchaikovsky.]

You guys can remember those zulu go codes in R6:3? (not sure if the earlier ones had it)

You basically gave your team a command to execute a certain action on your sign like "open and clear on zulu" "open frag and clear on zulu". On your sign (on zulu) you pressed (iirc) your white button and than your AI team members did there thing. This probably was the only good thing about R6:3 but still could be made much better.

Like in a GR game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But unlike in R6:3 where only one zulu command could be given at a time why not give multiple zulu codes at once and at a specific soldier. And not only that but also make it so certain ZGC's are executed after one other.

Like this:

Soldier #1/ZGC position #1+#3/Action = (window #1) Breach on ZGC #1, clear on ZGC #3
Soldier #2/ZGC position #2+#3/Action = (door #1) Open flash on #2 and clear on #3.
Soldier #3/ZGC position #3/Action = (door #2) Open and clear.
Soldier #4/ZGC position #3/Action = (door #2) Open and clear.

At first it looks complicated but try to pay attention:
"Soldier #" = Selected soldier.
"ZGC position #" = Position of the ordered action, 1 being the 1st, 2,3,4.... will come after the previous action is executed.
"Action =" = From which entry point (door, window, hole..) plus the type of action that's ordered (breach, frag, flash, open, clear..).

In the above example a room is cleared.
Soldier #1 starts by breaching a window.
Than soldier #2 throws a flashbang in the room from door #1 and after that he goes in.
At the same time soldiers #1,#3 and #4 go in as well and clear the room, only soldiers #3 and #4 take door #2.

Again it looks complicated (read it a few times http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )but you would just have to look at an entry point like a door or window, from there a sub menu could be opened where you can proceed to plan your storming in style. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
If to complicated the more simple ZGC's would imo still make an improvement to this game.

Now imagine you could abseil from rooftops and/or climb into window openings while using ZGC's. No more building clearings from bottom to top but all at once.

What's your opinion on this?

[Tchaikovsky.]

You guys can remember those zulu go codes in R6:3? (not sure if the earlier ones had it)

You basically gave your team a command to execute a certain action on your sign like "open and clear on zulu" "open frag and clear on zulu". On your sign (on zulu) you pressed (iirc) your white button and than your AI team members did there thing. This probably was the only good thing about R6:3 but still could be made much better.

Like in a GR game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
But unlike in R6:3 where only one zulu command could be given at a time why not give multiple zulu codes at once and at a specific soldier. And not only that but also make it so certain ZGC's are executed after one other.

Like this:

Soldier #1/ZGC position #1+#3/Action = (window #1) Breach on ZGC #1, clear on ZGC #3
Soldier #2/ZGC position #2+#3/Action = (door #1) Open flash on #2 and clear on #3.
Soldier #3/ZGC position #3/Action = (door #2) Open and clear.
Soldier #4/ZGC position #3/Action = (door #2) Open and clear.

At first it looks complicated but try to pay attention:
"Soldier #" = Selected soldier.
"ZGC position #" = Position of the ordered action, 1 being the 1st, 2,3,4.... will come after the previous action is executed.
"Action =" = From which entry point (door, window, hole..) plus the type of action that's ordered (breach, frag, flash, open, clear..).

In the above example a room is cleared.
Soldier #1 starts by breaching a window.
Than soldier #2 throws a flashbang in the room from door #1 and after that he goes in.
At the same time soldiers #1,#3 and #4 go in as well and clear the room, only soldiers #3 and #4 take door #2.

Again it looks complicated (read it a few times http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )but you would just have to look at an entry point like a door or window, from there a sub menu could be opened where you can proceed to plan your storming in style. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
If to complicated the more simple ZGC's would imo still make an improvement to this game.

Now imagine you could abseil from rooftops and/or climb into window openings while using ZGC's. No more building clearings from bottom to top but all at once.

What's your opinion on this?

[Brainlicker]

You have some good ideas but are they the right ones for a Ghost Recon game?

I have been outspoken about how the Ghost Recon series has gotten farther and farther away from it's roots; what made the first two games in the series great. But adding more and more and not improving on what already exists is only a consumption of time for very little payoff. If they were to get back to a solid game with strong enemy AI, non-linear level design, more accurate hit detection, and a more solid interface then I would say yes.....go ahead and add a few more things....

The problem that I see is that they are trying too hard to make a great game by adding this and that and doing this and that....and that's all it is...this and thats. That's what happened with GR2 (in my opinion).

It had the potential to be another fantastic game....it really did. But we all know what happened. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif They became overly ambitious, tried to do too much on top of going bigger and better than the others in the series. I think the common consensus is that GR2 fell short of where it should have been and burned a lot of fans in the process. Take the P.C. crowd...the poor guys didn't even get the game (but at least that kept them from getting the dreaded <span class="ev_code_RED">RED X</span>. The lack of support for technical problems, lack of original DL content, etc.........

Yes....I am a little sore about GR2 and that's why I hope they just focus thier efforts on the game at hand....not one that may exist. I hope as much effort goes into enemy AI as it does in the environments. The processing power of the 360 is amazing but won't be worth a krap if the game doesn't meet the fans expectations. What will the graphics matter if it takes thirty rounds to put an enemy down at point blank range? What will action and suspense matter if an enemy can see you from three miles away and shoot you through walls? Do see where I am going? Will you care about squad formations if everytime you connect to live you get dropped or get a "restart your xbox" message? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

So... you have good ideas but maybe they should be adopted after they get this game up and going? A solid game first......and then the gloss and little extra's.

Personally I am hoping that with the new title for the game means that there is hope for a return to a less space age game in the next installment. Ghost Recon 4 in the present anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Tchaikovsky.]

I personally place my bets on GR5 cause in GR4 the technology has advanced so much that they have time machines but something goes terribly wrong and by accident they end up some where in the 1990's and can't go back, so in GR5 everything is back to normall again. (my theory) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But back to topic you can discuss if the dev's are ready for it or not this is purely a discussion of a possible feature (maybe other game dev's read it). If you don't like it you don't or if you do you do and might have something to say about it.

Now it's kind of clear not many gamers liked the new way GR2 followed so this is just an attempt for an idea of what might actually be a good idea for in a possible GR sequel (or even other another similar game). Instead of doing nothing and wait untill another fiasco is out so we can all complain again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[WhiteKnight77]

Hereis a little known fact. John Sonedecker was a level designer for RSE from the Rainbow Six days. He left to join Battleborne a couple of years ago then decided to form his own studio. This studio, Blackfoot Studios was contracted by RSE to do level design work for GR 2 Summit Strike. I have seen (as you can too by visiting GR.net for a link to them) 2 more views of his maps. I can tell you now that the maps are really open and hint of GR1s non-linearity. Why did Ubi have RSE go back to that design for SS and not keep it for GRAW on consoles is beyond me.

I hope Ubi wakes up before things end up in a death spiral for them, but it may be to late.

Some of you may want to check out my interview with JS too, it gives you a glimpse into the happenings of RSE and Ubi and why he started Blackfoot Studios. It will be down the news page at GR.net or in the June archives.

[Agent Green]

Eh...I don't like the Zulu stuff. I mean, what team that practices more than they sleep would need to sit there and plan what they're going to do and then wait for a fancy code word to execute? That's too much time wasted. CQB goes too fast for that. Which is why the real ones need no signals or plans - they know exactly what they're going to do in any given situation. (I've witnessed it in action during paintball and airsoft games with some SF. Had my rear stomped.)

[Brainlicker]

@WhiteKnight77....

Thanks for the news. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

At this point all we can do is cross our fingers and wait and see. It's funny though but from the sounds of it there is a contradiction going on. The sales of GR2 says one thing and the fans say another. What is Ubi to do?

Perhaps the best thing to do is create a spin-off for GR3 "Advanced Scifighter" to please all the fanboys with over-the-shoulder and big explosions and then take Ghost Recon and get it back to its roots as a tactical game with weapons and soldiers of now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[WhiteKnight77]

Rigth now, I don't know if BFS is doing any work on GR3. I hope so as JS knows the series front to back and can deliver the kind of levels we want or I should say, as close to what we want within the constraints of the contract with RSE/Ubi (with Ubi the ultimate string puller).

[jchung]

I alread do this in GR except what I do is position myself at a door with alpha, then position bravo at the back door. Then I zoom in on the tacmap and place a destination point in the building, and as soon as I hear bravo say "moving out" I charge in with alpha.

A bit complicated, so what you are suggesting might be nice if we have some good buildings to do entries on. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Tchaikovsky.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Eh...I don't like the Zulu stuff. I mean, what team that practices more than they sleep would need to sit there and plan what they're going to do and then wait for a fancy code word to execute? That's too much time wasted. CQB goes too fast for that. Which is why the real ones need no signals or plans - they know exactly what they're going to do in any given situation. (I've witnessed it in action during paintball and airsoft games with some SF. Had my rear stomped.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

@agent green
I didn't invented the "fancy" word I just used it cause it's called that way in R6:3, but to answer your question: what about every sane team.

For cases where soldiers don't have specific intel of, like crossing a forest without knowing if or where enemies are. Or using a flank manoeuvre in the middle of a firefight. Soldiers would of course use there training and universal instinct to execute that.
But I don't see what this has to do with it?
Afcourse you may not want ZGC's but if I want proper building attacks my AI team must according to you just "know exactly what they're going to do".

And tell me how would they just do that without given orders??

@jchung
I also tried to give orders to go to certain locations inside buildings but I think it's just to hard to select the exact points using the map even when zoomed in, so alot of times I found myself slightly aiming at the wrong side of a wall which mostly ended up differently than I had in mind. So it can't really be done effectively in GR1. Also the AI tended to get stuck alot on corners which was very frustrating. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

[Agent Green]

The AI should be ready on their own like real operators. I'd like to see them act as I act, not as I tell them to. If the team were to stop at a numbered target building, wouldn't any human assume that breaching the door will come next? When a door is breached, would you not engage room-clearing procedures? It shouldn't be so hard as to program the ability to act based on current circumstances.

There's two doors into this room. There's like a ton of bad dudes in there. Ding just crashed through one door. I guess we'll sit over here since he didn't give the Zulu. That's terrible. I'd rather be part of a functioning team than having to tell them when to wipe.

[jchung]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tchaikovsky.:@jchung
I also tried to give orders to go to certain locations inside buildings but I think it's just to hard to select the exact points using the map even when zoomed in, so alot of times I found myself slightly aiming at the wrong side of a wall which mostly ended up differently than I had in mind. So it can't really be done effectively in GR1. Also the AI tended to get stuck alot on corners which was very frustrating. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is one part of RB6 that is actually better that GR. Your AI in RB6 did move about more efficiently in buildings, also I did not like how in OGR if you were in a narrow corridor and you needed to reverse directions, your AI would simply block your path. At least in RB6 you could push right past your AI.

Also, I only gave my example for how I implemented similar strategies in OGR. You are right that it was too complicated of a process, and it did not work as well as the RB6 commands.

[Tchaikovsky.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The AI should be ready on their own like real operators. I'd like to see them act as I act, not as I tell them to. If the team were to stop at a numbered target building, wouldn't any human assume that breaching the door will come next? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

@agent green
Imagine the farm house on "Farm" in GR1. And you with your team walk pass it, because there are enemies in there should they automatically just storm the place and act on them self? Or shall they just follow you as you enter it? But I wan't to use multiple attack positions so how will they do that? Do they need to be smart enough to automatically find the 2nd door? But what if there are 3 doors or more or other types of entries? And how will they know im ready to storm the place if I'm not allowed to give a ZGC or a signal without them having visual contact of me? And what if I like to experiment every time what the best way is?
I would love to plan all these things instead of everything happening automatically that's what makes games fun to play.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> When a door is breached, would you not engage room-clearing procedures? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you may got a point. After you enter a room or when a window/door is breached, or a frag or flashbang would be thrown in. Than every soldier could automatically start to clear the area unless told specifically not to.
Like in scenarios where the breach, frag or flashbang doesn't have effect because some enemies are out of the blast zone.

Other than that I see to many unlogical situations arising with what you are suggesting.

Also I think AI needs a stress/panic level so if you're having a firefight with AI for a while they need to act diverently than when a grenade explodes suddenly near them. So things like approaching buildings silently actually has a purpose. Same as clearing the building quickly so because of there stress level they won't shoot back so easily as they normally would.

Yeah chung I hate to say it but although R6:3 was way to arcade imo it did had certain aspects that were better. Personally I think that Ubi should stop focussing certain aspects of the games Rainbow 6, Splinter Cell and Ghost Recon in separate games but join them or atleast combine the aspects to make much better games.

Combine the stealth of SC with GR and R6. If your looking at GR1 remove the linear maps in SC and R6 and use open GR type of maps. Although GR should be focussed on wide open areas, that doesn't mean there is no place for proper building clearings. In SC improve the aiming speed. And finally drop the heroïsm in R6 and GR by not focussing on lead characters.

[jchung]

Yeah, a good combination of all three games would be good. The open maps of GR, the efficency of CQB that RB6 had (although not the ridiculous AI), and the stealth of SC.

The stealth aspect is one of the things I missed most in GR2. The way I always ran missions was alpha with all silenced weapons sneaking around and picking everyone off, then Bravo would come in and clean up, plant demos, etc...

I miss the good old days. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[Moe_14_1990]

I think they should put an option for voice recognition commands, that would be awsome. ( gr2s voice rec was pretty lame, but in GRAW it would be pretty cool to give commands like that ) just an opinion.

[crtChunk72]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jchung:
The stealth aspect is one of the things I missed most in GR2. The way I always ran missions was alpha with all silenced weapons sneaking around and picking everyone off, then Bravo would come in and clean up, plant demos, etc...

I miss the good old days. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is, personally, my favorite way to play, as well... quiet...

I like the idea of a Zulu code. I like the precision and teamwork that would bring into the game (especially in SP). I've also tried that "place marker in middle of room, wait for "Moving out" and then move in myself, but it rarely seems to work the way I want it to. They open a door too slowly... they get hung up on a corner... they're waiting for a buddy to catch up... there doesn't seem to be a "blitz" like I'd like to see...

But, then again, clearing buildings is usually the last thing I'll do in GR... I'll clear the entire map (outdoors) before I enter into CQB...

[Jam_Dammer]

Speaking of Zulu Go Codes...

this topic reminds me of the little "clear" or "black" button on the right side of the XBOX controller.

In GR1 it was used to set your ROF "Rate of Fire" from single to 3-round to full-auto.

In GR2, the ROF is changed by holding the A button down for a second and a half and then toggling to the ROF you want and the clear/black button was rendered without any function at all.

How about in the new upcoming GR3, we use the clear/black button to be able to cycle thru our friendly-AI soldiers and be able to direct that individual soldier to stay in place, hold fire until fired-upon, stay "on me", or move that soldier with a "Y button point" to my crosshair spot?

-Jam