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NeoDeo1955
02-19-2007, 05:57 PM
In SH4, I wonder how many ways you can lose your sub?

Listed below is an estimated breakdown of the 52 U.S. sub losses in WW II plus a list of every sub lost by date, name, and estimated loss.

---------------------------
Active ASW---------26 (5 by air, 16 by sea, and 5 by air/sea combo)
Mines-----------------08
Enemy subs----------03
Shore Battery--------01
Air Raid--------------01
---------------------------
Enemy Action Total 39
---------------------------
Ran Aground--------04
Malfunction---------04
Friendly Fire--------02
Circular Torp Run--02
Collision-------------01
---------------------------
Accident Total-------13


1941/1942

1) Sealion: 12/25/1941 Scuttled after an air raid on Cavite Navy Yard P. I. damaged her earlier that month.
2) S-36: 01/21/42 Destroyed by crew after she ran aground in Makassar Strait.
3) S-26: 01/24/1942 Sunk in a collision with its own escort US PC-460 in the Gulf of Panama.
4) Shark I: 02/07 to 03/07/1942 Presumed lost on patrol while off the Celebes.
5) Perch: 03/03/1942 Scuttled off Java after being severely depth charged the day before.
6) S-27: 06/19/1942 Ran aground off Amchitka Island in the Aleutians.
7) S-39: 08/14/1942 Ran aground off Rossel Island in the Louisade Archipelago.
8) Grunion: 07/03 to 08/16/1942 Presumed lost on patrol off Kiska (accident?).

1943

9) Argonaut: 01/10/1943 Sank by depth charging and gunfire on patrol off New Britain.
10) Amberjack: 02/14 to 03/22/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Rabaul(air/sea?).
11) Grampus: 02/21 to 03/22/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the Blackett Strait.
12) Triton: 03/11 to 04/10/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off of Rabaul.
13) Pickerel: 03/22 to 5/12/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu.
14) Grenadier: 04/22/1943 Scuttled after air attack off Malay Peninsula.
15) Runner: 05/28 to 07/20/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu (mine?).
16) R-12: 06/12/1943 Lost in a training accident off Key West Florida.
17) Grayling: 08/19 to 09/30/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Manila.
18) Pompano: 08/20 to 10/15/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu (mine?).
19) Cisco: 09/18 to 11/05/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea.
20) S-44: 10/07/1943 Sunk by gunfire one day out of Attu in the Aleutians.
21) Wahoo: 10/11/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the La Perouse Straits.
22) Dorado: 10/12/1943 Presumed lost en route to Panama (friendly fire?).
23) Corvina: 11/16/1943 Presumed lost on patrol South of Truk (enemy sub?)
24) Sculpin: 11/19/1943 Scuttled near Gilbert Islands after being depth charged to surface and hit by gun fire.
25) Capelin: 11/17 to 12/09/1943 Presumed lost on patrol north of Celebes (mine?).

1944

26) Scorpion: 01/06 to 03/06/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Yellow Sea (mine?)
27) Grayback: 02/26/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea (air?).
28) Trout: 02/29/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off China.
29) Tullibee: 03/25/1944 Sunk by own torpedo North of Palau.
30) Gudgeon: 04/07 to 06/07/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Marianas(air/sea?).
31) Herring: 06/01/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Kuriles (shore battery).
32) Golet: 06/14/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu.
33) S-28: 07/04/1944 Sunk in a training accident off Hawaii.
34) Robalo: 07/26/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Palawan (aft battery explosion?).
35) Flier: 08/13/1944 Sunk by a mine South of Palawan.
36) Harder: 08/27/1944 Sunk by depth charges off west coast of Luzon.
37) Seawolf: 10/03/1944 Sunk by friendly fire off east coast of Samar.
38) Darter: 10/31/1944 Destroyed by gunfire from USS Nautilus after she ran aground on Bombay Shoals in the Palawan passage.*
39) Shark II: 10/24/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Luzon Strait.
40) Tang: 10/24/1944 Sunk by own torpedo off Formosa.
41) Escolar: 10/17 to 11/27/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Yellow Sea (mine?).
42) Albacore: 11/07/1944 Sunk by mine off Honshu.
43) Growler: 11/08/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off the Philippines.
44) Scamp: 11/08 to 12/21/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Saipan(air/sea?).

1945

45) Swordfish: 01/03 to 02/15/1945 Presumed lost on patrol off Okinawa (mine?).
46) Barbel: 02/04/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea(air?).
47) Kete: 03/20 to 04/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol east of Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).
48) Trigger: 03/24 to 05/01/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the East China Sea(air/sea?).
49) Snook: 04/08 to 05/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol near Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).
50) Lagarto: 05/03/1945 Sunk by depth charges in the Gulf of Siam.
51) Bonefish: 06/08 to 07/30/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the Sea of Japan.
52) Bullhead: 08/06/1945 Presumed lost on patrol off Bali(air?).

NeoDeo1955
02-19-2007, 05:57 PM
In SH4, I wonder how many ways you can lose your sub?

Listed below is an estimated breakdown of the 52 U.S. sub losses in WW II plus a list of every sub lost by date, name, and estimated loss.

---------------------------
Active ASW---------26 (5 by air, 16 by sea, and 5 by air/sea combo)
Mines-----------------08
Enemy subs----------03
Shore Battery--------01
Air Raid--------------01
---------------------------
Enemy Action Total 39
---------------------------
Ran Aground--------04
Malfunction---------04
Friendly Fire--------02
Circular Torp Run--02
Collision-------------01
---------------------------
Accident Total-------13


1941/1942

1) Sealion: 12/25/1941 Scuttled after an air raid on Cavite Navy Yard P. I. damaged her earlier that month.
2) S-36: 01/21/42 Destroyed by crew after she ran aground in Makassar Strait.
3) S-26: 01/24/1942 Sunk in a collision with its own escort US PC-460 in the Gulf of Panama.
4) Shark I: 02/07 to 03/07/1942 Presumed lost on patrol while off the Celebes.
5) Perch: 03/03/1942 Scuttled off Java after being severely depth charged the day before.
6) S-27: 06/19/1942 Ran aground off Amchitka Island in the Aleutians.
7) S-39: 08/14/1942 Ran aground off Rossel Island in the Louisade Archipelago.
8) Grunion: 07/03 to 08/16/1942 Presumed lost on patrol off Kiska (accident?).

1943

9) Argonaut: 01/10/1943 Sank by depth charging and gunfire on patrol off New Britain.
10) Amberjack: 02/14 to 03/22/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Rabaul(air/sea?).
11) Grampus: 02/21 to 03/22/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the Blackett Strait.
12) Triton: 03/11 to 04/10/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off of Rabaul.
13) Pickerel: 03/22 to 5/12/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu.
14) Grenadier: 04/22/1943 Scuttled after air attack off Malay Peninsula.
15) Runner: 05/28 to 07/20/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu (mine?).
16) R-12: 06/12/1943 Lost in a training accident off Key West Florida.
17) Grayling: 08/19 to 09/30/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Manila.
18) Pompano: 08/20 to 10/15/1943 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu (mine?).
19) Cisco: 09/18 to 11/05/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea.
20) S-44: 10/07/1943 Sunk by gunfire one day out of Attu in the Aleutians.
21) Wahoo: 10/11/1943 Presumed lost on patrol in the La Perouse Straits.
22) Dorado: 10/12/1943 Presumed lost en route to Panama (friendly fire?).
23) Corvina: 11/16/1943 Presumed lost on patrol South of Truk (enemy sub?)
24) Sculpin: 11/19/1943 Scuttled near Gilbert Islands after being depth charged to surface and hit by gun fire.
25) Capelin: 11/17 to 12/09/1943 Presumed lost on patrol north of Celebes (mine?).

1944

26) Scorpion: 01/06 to 03/06/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Yellow Sea (mine?)
27) Grayback: 02/26/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea (air?).
28) Trout: 02/29/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off China.
29) Tullibee: 03/25/1944 Sunk by own torpedo North of Palau.
30) Gudgeon: 04/07 to 06/07/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Marianas(air/sea?).
31) Herring: 06/01/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Kuriles (shore battery).
32) Golet: 06/14/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Honshu.
33) S-28: 07/04/1944 Sunk in a training accident off Hawaii.
34) Robalo: 07/26/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Palawan (aft battery explosion?).
35) Flier: 08/13/1944 Sunk by a mine South of Palawan.
36) Harder: 08/27/1944 Sunk by depth charges off west coast of Luzon.
37) Seawolf: 10/03/1944 Sunk by friendly fire off east coast of Samar.
38) Darter: 10/31/1944 Destroyed by gunfire from USS Nautilus after she ran aground on Bombay Shoals in the Palawan passage.*
39) Shark II: 10/24/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Luzon Strait.
40) Tang: 10/24/1944 Sunk by own torpedo off Formosa.
41) Escolar: 10/17 to 11/27/1944 Presumed lost on patrol in the Yellow Sea (mine?).
42) Albacore: 11/07/1944 Sunk by mine off Honshu.
43) Growler: 11/08/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off the Philippines.
44) Scamp: 11/08 to 12/21/1944 Presumed lost on patrol off Saipan(air/sea?).

1945

45) Swordfish: 01/03 to 02/15/1945 Presumed lost on patrol off Okinawa (mine?).
46) Barbel: 02/04/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the South China Sea(air?).
47) Kete: 03/20 to 04/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol east of Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).
48) Trigger: 03/24 to 05/01/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the East China Sea(air/sea?).
49) Snook: 04/08 to 05/16/1945 Presumed lost on patrol near Nansi Shoto chain (sub?).
50) Lagarto: 05/03/1945 Sunk by depth charges in the Gulf of Siam.
51) Bonefish: 06/08 to 07/30/1945 Presumed lost on patrol in the Sea of Japan.
52) Bullhead: 08/06/1945 Presumed lost on patrol off Bali(air?).

geoffwessex
02-19-2007, 06:07 PM
Wow that's still a lot of 'Presumed lost.....'. Of the British submarine losses not fully explained, most would have been minefields - the post-war German and Italian records could usually pinpoint where they made successful attacks etc. The lost U-Boats - which is a very high number - have nearly all been identified/located to tie in with Allied attacks. So unless there were no Japanese naval post-war records to read, I'd expect most losses were down to mines.

NeoDeo1955
02-19-2007, 11:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by geoffwessex:
Wow that's still a lot of 'Presumed lost.....'. Of the British submarine losses not fully explained, most would have been minefields - the post-war German and Italian records could usually pinpoint where they made successful attacks etc. The lost U-Boats - which is a very high number - have nearly all been identified/located to tie in with Allied attacks. So unless there were no Japanese naval post-war records to read, I'd expect most losses were down to mines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The info comes from a Navper document dated 1949.

The presumed lost that are not qualified are from depth charging. These were estimated by reserch the Navy gleened from investigating IJN reports as well as there own. The actual cuases can be estimated as to how the boats were destroyed but can not be proved beyond any doubt.

Just like you can not say every U boat that went missing and no report was given by the allies would qualify them as being sunk by mines. You can only esimate that and give reason for the estimation. Like the Navy did for every US boat that was lost.

tambor198
02-19-2007, 11:35 PM
Here's a sobbering thought for you guys. During WW II the "Silent Service" lost 3500 officers and crewman. That's a mortality rate of 1 in every 5 crewman died serving their country. This was the highest mortality rate in the whole US Navy during WW II. Something to think about, huh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



tambor198 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

NeoDeo1955
02-21-2007, 04:38 PM
Yes being a WW II submariner was a very dangerous business.

Just ask the Germans.

While 80% of US submariners survived the war, 80% of German submariners didn't. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif