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Friendly_flyer
07-25-2006, 01:31 AM
Hi!

While plowing the Internet for references, I came across this site. While made for the benefit of SF-model builders, it has plenty of pictures relevant for us. Note particularely the worn helicopter, the battle damaged transport plane and the bare aluminium finish of a P-38.

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/../tech/wxref.htm

Another site from the 1st Gulf War, showing actual battle dammage and repairs, mainly A-10

http://www.pats-world.com/gulfwar/

Friendly_flyer
07-25-2006, 01:31 AM
Hi!

While plowing the Internet for references, I came across this site. While made for the benefit of SF-model builders, it has plenty of pictures relevant for us. Note particularely the worn helicopter, the battle damaged transport plane and the bare aluminium finish of a P-38.

http://www.starshipmodeler.com/../tech/wxref.htm

Another site from the 1st Gulf War, showing actual battle dammage and repairs, mainly A-10

http://www.pats-world.com/gulfwar/

JMJ33
07-25-2006, 10:44 AM
Interesting link, thanks. The NMF P-38 looks a lot like Hammerds bare metal.

Friendly_flyer
07-25-2006, 11:45 AM
I allway knew Hammerd was good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Taylortony
07-25-2006, 04:04 PM
trouble is the scuffing is indicative of a 60 year old plane that has been stripped and scoured to remove the paint, new metal tends not to have that, it is also done for the application of new paint to give it something to adhere to.

Cool site thought thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
07-25-2006, 11:21 PM
Taylortony, while you're here, how was small calibre holes to metal surfaced patched back in the late war period? Did they use some sort of tape (like Gaffa) or was it patching with metal plates and rivets all the way? I€m trying to skin some P-47s that has seen a lot of ground pounding, and having picked up some small calibre fire and perhaps a bit of shrapnel in the process.

Taylortony
07-26-2006, 03:24 PM
Depends on time and damage a lot of holes from small cablibre fire could result in a wing change, to repair a hole you would dress it to take off the rough edges which can crack then river a round or square patch over it, using a double row of rivets and picking up any lines already on the skin...... ie if it went over the line of an exsiting row, you would drill them out then put them through the patch too....


for help try

http://www.free-ed.net/sweethaven/Aviation/AirframeRepa...pair01.asp?iNum=0703 (http://www.free-ed.net/sweethaven/Aviation/AirframeRepair/AirframeRepair01.asp?iNum=0703)


http://www.free-ed.net/sweethaven/Aviation/AirframeRepa...rameRepair01_TOC.asp (http://www.free-ed.net/sweethaven/Aviation/AirframeRepair/AirframeRepair01_TOC.asp)

Freelancer-1
07-26-2006, 10:02 PM
Some good stuff there, Friendly.

Thanks for the links http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
07-26-2006, 11:55 PM
TaylorTony:
What I was thinking about is the kind of repair we see here:

http://www.spacemodelmania.com/models/instructions/weathering/jg_c5repair.JPG

The repair of small shrapnel damage seems to be done with a form of sticky metal tape. I wonder, is this just a temporary repair? Is it a modern invention, or would they do something similar 60 years ago? I seem to remember that Gaffa tape was originally developed for bomber crews to do "on the spot" repair during WWII. I have seen gun tape repair to the fabric parts of a Hurricane, but what about a metal surface?

Taylortony
07-27-2006, 01:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
TaylorTony:
What I was thinking about is the kind of repair we see here:

http://www.spacemodelmania.com/models/instructions/weathering/jg_c5repair.JPG



The repair of small shrapnel damage seems to be done with a form of sticky metal tape. I wonder, is this just a temporary repair? Is it a modern invention, or would they do something similar 60 years ago? I seem to remember that Gaffa tape was originally developed for bomber crews to do "on the spot" repair during WWII. I have seen gun tape repair to the fabric parts of a Hurricane, but what about a metal surface? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is speed tape, basically it is a thin metal (adhesive backed) tape that you can use to patch holes and is a temporary repair until you can get it to somewhere it can be done properly.......... although I have seen fighters during Vietnam returning phantoms were found to have metal patches added that when removed were made from coke cans.. you can rivet a repair or even use self tapping screws through it... the Jag has a repair if its wing and spar is shot to shhht where they simply drop a preformed pre drilled 1/4 inch plate over the upper wing, drill into the wing then put self tapping screws through it to hold it together... it is then a "war Goer"


they would not have tape like this, BUT they would have dope and farbric as used over the gun ports and they would simply clean it up and dope a farbic patch over the hole........ that is what you see on the Hurri, the fabric is the same as the linen the aircraft is covered with......... so you could use the same on the wings of a spit and unless it was painted it would be red in colour or possible silver as they are the 2 main dope colours, but as said the red would be the stuff at hand as in used on the gun ports.

incidently the damage on the fue****e shown would stop you presurising the aircraft.

a battle damage patch is a quick thing to do, you simply file out the hole quickly, use a pair of tin shears to cut a patch to shape, drop it over the area then drill through and pop rivet it in place

Friendly_flyer
07-27-2006, 01:44 AM
Thanks Taylortony, you're a gold-mine!

slo_1_2_3
07-28-2006, 09:52 PM
Am I the only one that noticed the dump truck sitting on the pickup?

Friendly_flyer
08-03-2006, 02:55 PM
Another interesting picture (A 10):

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/09.jpg

WarWolfe_1
08-03-2006, 05:52 PM
I've seen those pics more than a few times...I've wondered how they fixed it. Being as the damage is in a critical area I'm almost all surfaces were totally replaced.

Friendly_flyer
08-04-2006, 12:59 AM
I guess so. What I find more interesting is the flacking (darker underpaint) and dirt. It seem flacking occur where dirt collect. I don't know why, perhaps the dirt somehow weaken the paint.

Taylortony
08-15-2006, 01:47 PM
The flaking is caused by the impact, it cracks the paint and the airflow lifts it off... most of those parts will simply be replaced, the rear cowl on the A10 is held on by quick release latches for access so you just swop it, you can see the latches on the picture. The cone will be bolted on too so is an easy swop. the rear of the engine pylon could be similar, the rest is a reskin job.