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View Full Version : Petition - Ubi plese make dragon golem insted "lava" dragon!



Iluvan
09-12-2007, 06:38 AM
Dear homm fans and h5 players!

Did U saw alternate upgrade for fire dragon (7th level creature in Fortress) - Lava dragon? No?

There he/she/it is:
Alternate (http://resources.ubi.com/resources/67/67975-HOMM5_TE_PC_SCR_FORTRESS_007.jpg)

In my opinion It's not good alternate, looks very similar to upgraded version. Homm 5 "kick out" a lot of great monsters: nagas, medusas, basilisks, thunderbirds and... DRAGON GOLEM.
Maybe that "lava" alternate would change? Dragon Golem? Rune dragon? Dwarves are smart and talented. They can "make" runes on dragon monuments/dead fire dragon/oldest fire (now stone)dragons!

Please change the "lava dragon" to some kind of dragon golems! Maybe just texture change or completly new design (sometching like http://resources.ubi.com/resources/67/67974-HOMM5_TE_PC_SCR_FORTRESS_006.jpg (http://his) axe).

PhoenixReborn06
09-12-2007, 08:22 AM
No No!! Please make it a fairy dragon!!!

Phoss
09-12-2007, 09:15 AM
Or a dwarven dragen the size of a hummingbird, w000000t! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ImperialDane
09-12-2007, 09:33 AM
Well i am sure this behavior shall help http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

@iluvan: Well i really can't see what your problem is, sure there might be a slight similarity between the dragons, but nothing that big, and the suggestions you come with are a little interesting, but it has been decided that it is dragons so a golem can't be done, besides golems are the academy special... and using runes on them ? Sounds a bit iffy, and how are you going to get runes on a dragon made of magma ?
Perhaps in Heroes VI something might change. But now ? It is too late, the game is out in a month, and unless you want to delay the game for even longer while they make up something new, there is nothing to do.

Elodin
09-12-2007, 11:32 AM
Base creature is a Fire Dragon. Fire dragons are not constructs. Golems are constructs. So no upgrade should cause the fire dragon to become constructed creature. I voted lava dragon.

Xenofex_086
09-12-2007, 11:48 AM
In any case, nearly an year ago, before the release of HoF there were quite a lot of complaints about the "one more dragon" - and they were fair too. Noone responded and here we have the fourth dragon among the total of seven Tier 7 creatures. What makes you think this will change now?
And also the transformance of one elemental creature to mechanical one is not quite... natural indeed.

Elementalist.
09-12-2007, 11:55 AM
It's fine as it is why change it?

Phoss
09-12-2007, 12:05 PM
Because we're bored and need something to talk about?

Elementalist.
09-12-2007, 12:08 PM
Fair enough http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ImperialDane
09-12-2007, 12:28 PM
But if not a dragon or a golem, what should they then have had as a level 7 unit ? A dwarven king perhaps ? Fully clad in very heavy armor perhaps ? .. behemoth ?

Phoss
09-12-2007, 01:14 PM
I'm in support of the idea of a dwarven hero/king as 7th level critter. I don't really connect the dwarves with any monsters as such. Where human legend has knights on horses, dragons, angles and such, dwarves are pretty much just...dwarves.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
09-12-2007, 02:04 PM
I never really cared for the dragon golem from h4. But that being said, I'm all for more mechanical units. As it is, we've only got the golem & war machines. I'm not pushing it to improve the usefulness of "repair" but rather that there are opportunities to explore some skills. March of the golems. Several war machine skills. Something else I'm not recalling right now. A leadership one IIRC. ~edit~ Artificial glory.

ImperialDane
09-12-2007, 02:29 PM
Well what else should there be of mechanical creatures ? Just different types of golems ? Automata ? There are many possibilites. Another possibility could be a large animated statue, possesed by an ancestor .. or a bit of their god. But i like the idea of a dwarven king..

Normandy09
09-12-2007, 02:40 PM
I think a dwarven king/warlord would be great.

I also dont connect many beasts (besides bears and maybe wolves) with the dwarves. Would be a great change, something that should definitely be done in H6.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
09-12-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by ImperialDane:
Well what else should there be of mechanical creatures ? Just different types of golems ? Automata ? There are many possibilites. Another possibility could be a large animated statue, possesed by an ancestor .. or a bit of their god. But i like the idea of a dwarven king..

Remember the Ballista unit for the Haven town in H4? How about more war machine type units? Onager? Battering Ram? Scorpions? Mangonels? Trebuchets? Mechanical could effect SHIPS. Mechanical could effect the CASTLE GATES. There are numerous opportunities to bring this element into the game. They just need to be creative with it.

Inferno015
09-12-2007, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:

Remember the Ballista unit for the Haven town in H4? How about more war machine type units? Onager? Battering Ram? Scorpions? Mangonels? Trebuchets? Mechanical could effect SHIPS. Mechanical could effect the CASTLE GATES. There are numerous opportunities to bring this element into the game. They just need to be creative with it.

Remember how H4 was a huge failure? If the game gets too complex, it starts to suck. They wanted to make H4 a little more realistic and it got terrible ratings. They should keep things simple. If they did give some different alternative upgrade other then the Lava Dragon, then that would just be stupid. You would be faced with the dilema of upgrading your already existing Fire Dragon to a slightly hotter and stronger Magma Dragon, or make it become a machine. I voted for Lava Dragon.

(The only way I could agree with Chuckles on the siege units is if they were still treated as secondary units, such as the Ballista, First Aid Tent etc. It would be pretty cool if they had more siege units to choose from but you could only have say three at a time)

Phoss
09-12-2007, 03:08 PM
You should speak for yourself. I for one was a fan of H4 and liked a lot of the changes from H3. It had some technical difficulties, but not half as many as H5.

War machines would be a great step forward, they are after all one of the most important things in any war ever fought, but it's important to get it right or they'll potentially ruin the game.

Xenofex_086
09-12-2007, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by ImperialDane:
But if not a dragon or a golem, what should they then have had as a level 7 unit ? A dwarven king perhaps ? Fully clad in very heavy armor perhaps ? .. behemoth ? Well, one's imagination could be infinite when it comes to fantasy worlds. Let's say Fire Giant - pretty much the same basic concept of elemental creature, just another skin and maybe no breath attack. Or some huge war machine with area of effect attack - that would've been quite original for Tier 7. Why not even some kind of celestial creature - the dwarves are supposed to be the guardians of the "demon cells", right? And so on...
If the game gets too complex, it starts to suck. Yeah, if you say so. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Inferno015
09-12-2007, 04:02 PM
@Phoss

If you read the end of my statement, you'll have noticed an interesting idea. I am AGAINST the idea of recruitung War Machines, but if there were a choice of about 6 or 7 from the Blacksmith and each hero could have three at a time, that would be pretty cool. But like I said, they would have to be secondary units, that is, they don't have to be destroyed for you to lose combat.

Imaginaut
09-12-2007, 04:18 PM
Hmmm...As I said before I think the top tier dwarven troop should be the Behemoth. Makes perfect sense as they've always been depicted as mountain dwelling all the way back to H3 and the games in need of something beyond the L7 Dragon. Of the creatures dumped since H3, I think the Behemoth (along with the Mighty Gorgon) is the most sorely missed. They just have might and power written all over and they fit the dwarven metaphor way better than the Fire Dragon does.

Another alternative, still superior to the dragon thing, which doesn't seem to fit the metaphor well at all, is something like a Stone or Frost giant. No giants in the game yet, just a Colossus (which seems kinda more like a constrcut in some senses, at least to me).

And speaking of Constructs, H4 did indeed have a construct as a level four unit. I think it was called a "catapult" or somesuch. It was pretty expensive as far as I recall and was the Life city's alternate or expanded level four choice. I think that would make perfect sense, too but, as has been said here previously the dwarven metaphor here is Nordic Rune Mages not Underground Miner/Technologists. So maybe the giant or behemoth would make more sense. Either is better than the dragon.

Inferno015
09-12-2007, 04:26 PM
Maybe the Dwarves are what seem like a perfect master for Behemoths, but they are a snowy theme. The Behemoths we know and love are from the dessert. It might be an interesting change, but I think I prefer the dragons.

The Magma Dragons are actually a replacement for Crystal Dragons. Think about it, Magma Dragons are tough, with 40 defense and relatively high attack. They can't fly, but they are immune to fire which means Armageddon strategy kicks in. Add to that the fire shield and you'll find the Magma Dragons are worth more than what you pay...

Imaginaut
09-12-2007, 09:45 PM
No disputing how durable Magma Dragons are. I actually love the Fortress. They're my second fave after the Sylvan and it's almost impossible to lose with them.

I'm more disputing their thematic coherence. They just don't seem to fit with the other Fortress tiers in the same way that the other factions hang together. I really think the impetus was to get another dragon into the game, one way or another. A bit of a fixation there, maybe. Anyway, if it's the whole magma angle that you're advocating, then I think something like Fire Giants, who work the magma forges, say, would make a lot more sense thematically. Just like in ancient Greek myth, cyclopses forged the thunderbolts, so maybe fire giants forged and constructed the great fortress walls. They could have a similar immunity to fire, like the dragons, but would carry big hammers and be a hand to hand unit. I think something like that would make way more sense.

SrCabeza
09-13-2007, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Imaginaut:
No disputing how durable Magma Dragons are. I actually love the Fortress. They're my second fave after the Sylvan and it's almost impossible to lose with them.

I'm more disputing their thematic coherence. They just don't seem to fit with the other Fortress tiers in the same way that the other factions hang together. I really think the impetus was to get another dragon into the game, one way or another. A bit of a fixation there, maybe. Anyway, if it's the whole magma angle that you're advocating, then I think something like Fire Giants, who work the magma forges, say, would make a lot more sense thematically. Just like in ancient Greek myth, cyclopses forged the thunderbolts, so maybe fire giants forged and constructed the great fortress walls. They could have a similar immunity to fire, like the dragons, but would carry big hammers and be a hand to hand unit. I think something like that would make way more sense.

Well I always thought of the Thanes as another name for Hill/Storm/Frost giants, they don't look very dwarvish to me.

noswej
09-13-2007, 01:08 AM
thane means more like, captain or hero, rather than giant.

ImperialDane
09-13-2007, 02:04 AM
Aye, But a fire giant could be a cool idea actually. Huge burning blacksmiths, of coruse how they should work would be an interesting question, should they just be melee.. or perhaps a caster as well ?

Normandy09
09-13-2007, 07:45 AM
I think that the fire giant would work perfectly, and fit much better than the lava dragon. The dwarves are a very self-reliant faction. With there being 6 out of 7 units as dwarves, they dont rely on much outside help. And then all of a sudden some stupid dragon comes out of the ground or something. The giants would fit much better, because they are actually the master blacksmiths for the dwarves, and such fit the whole self-reliant theme.

As for upgrades, it would be simple. Just follow the cyclops more or less. The basic is melee. But with the alternate upgrade, it can be either a really strong melee, or a caster/ranged unit.

The giant has a ton of great potential.

Phoss
09-13-2007, 07:51 AM
Or throwing around hammers like Thor http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Normandy09
09-13-2007, 07:52 AM
Born from the great forges of their home in the Dwarven Mountains, the fire giants are men of gigantic stature, that serve the vital role in the dwarven society as the Master Smiths. These giants are born with
hardened skin, capable of withstanding the heat of even the hottest forge. During times of peace, they spend their days working the forges,
making sure the dwarven army has only the best armor and weaponry. But during times of war, the giants unleash their monstrous strength upon their enemies, crushing them under the heavy weight of their hammer.

Little description I just came up with in a few seconds. Not great, but gets the point across of what I think they would be like.

Imaginaut
09-13-2007, 09:04 AM
Sounds good to me, and I like the idea of the upgrade throwing their hammers. Too bad there aren't more fire spells in the game for them to wield.

As for the Thanes, yes I think they're still dwarven and not giants. The scale is kinda weird but remember these dwarves are supposed to be nordic in origin and the dwarves of Norse myth were often larger than humans. Dwarf just denoted a race, not a height or size.

Anyway, I'm all for a Giant/Fire Giant.

PhoenixReborn06
09-13-2007, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Inferno015:
Maybe the Dwarves are what seem like a perfect master for Behemoths, but they are a snowy theme. The Behemoths we know and love are from the dessert.

That big shaggy yeti-like creature always seemed like a snow creature to me despite the faction terrain alignment.

____

It's way too late to change any of the creatures in the fortress line up. Or do you want them to patch dragon golems/fire giants etc. into HoF? They could but it wouldn't make a super amount of sense.

Imaginaut
09-14-2007, 08:55 AM
You know what could really work for Giants?Fire Giants? If their specials had to do with equipment and siefe enginnering. So, maybe they could knock down walls with their hammers, like the cyclopses do. But then, as their "special" maybe they could also repair walls and gates and strengthe or weaken ammo carts/ballista and catapults. That would be cool and make them very unique and ditinctive in the game. Having the ability to repair walls during a siege would be incredibly helpful or frustrating depending on your perspective. I like it.

ImperialDane
09-14-2007, 09:28 AM
Or they could cast certain runes using mana instead of resources..

Imaginaut
09-14-2007, 09:37 AM
I actually like the fact that runes require resources. It makes them different from other forms of magic and really helps to make the dwarves distinctive. maybe the compormise would be casting some known spells using resources instead of mana/ Hmmm, that could work.

ImperialDane
09-14-2007, 09:47 AM
Well since they are fire giants amd mastersmiths i thought that the resource requirement could be skipped. But then again, the rune priests might do that instead as they are well.. rune priests.. or perhaps fire giants could keen the weapons of other stacks. and one of the upgrades could rust them..

Gekdoaco
09-17-2007, 05:16 PM
Well the thing doesn't have wings and it only kinda looks like a dragon. In my opinion instead of calling it a dragon you could have just called it a Salamander. you still get the whole fire and elemental thing out of it and you would have to change very little.

Inferno015
09-17-2007, 05:19 PM
Yeah, but Dragon sounds so much cooler than Salamander. But I strongly enforce my previous statement. There aren't anyu complaints about Crytal Dragons being dragons. Magma Dragons look almost exactly the same, in fact, I think the Crystal Dragons were the inspiration of the Magma Dragons.

Edo_555
09-18-2007, 01:27 AM
Anything, just no the Dragon Golem. I had enought in H4. Golems isn't mechanic, but spiritual / magic creation. Golem is craeted like as God created human.

PETITIONS ARE SUPUSED TO BE ABOUT SERIOS ISSUES, NOT ABOUT, I WANT'T THIS AND I WAN'T THAT.


Originally posted by Gekdoaco:
Well the thing doesn't have wings and it only kinda looks like a dragon. In my opinion instead of calling it a dragon you could have just called it a Salamander. you still get the whole fire and elemental thing out of it and you would have to change very little. I agree on this. It could bee caled salamander, and then we would get something other, than dragonhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ImperialDane
09-18-2007, 01:40 AM
Perhaps Edo, but in any case it is a little too late to make a petition unless you want the game to be delayed by months beyond what it is apparently already delayed.

Xenofex_086
09-18-2007, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by Edo_555:
Anything, just no the Dragon Golem. I had enought in H4. Golems isn't mechanic, but spiritual / magic creation. Golem is craeted like as God created human. The golem is any kind of animated "dead" matter. But yeah, the Dragon Golems from HoMM IV were just some steam mechs, not golems.

ImperialDane
09-18-2007, 04:59 AM
Aye, i'll agree on that. No dragon golems. Generally avoidance of certain units from HoMM IV