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YAKMAN
01-29-2006, 10:50 PM
Is there any B25 campaigns out there????

YAKMAN
01-29-2006, 10:50 PM
Is there any B25 campaigns out there????

HotelBushranger
01-30-2006, 02:47 AM
Are there any B25 campaigns out there???

Are

Grammar mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

hotspace
01-30-2006, 03:46 AM
There's a sticky thread above m8 listing all known campaigns - not sure about a B-25 Campaign though......but I've just got up, my head is killing me, and the wife is getting on my tits, so they're might be m8 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hot Space

BH-21
01-30-2006, 07:31 AM
Well, I was thinking of making one as a spin off of my current campaign project. Due to recent setbacks and other stuff, I'm not sure when or if I will get it made.

mandrill7
01-30-2006, 03:49 PM
The problem with B-25's is the tendency for AI to dive and repeatedly strafe during and after bomb runs. If you like that, fine. If you just want a level bombing run, it'll drive you to the loonie bin.

A-20's do much the same thing. In my Okinawa campaign, I just gave up and started assigning tac air bomb runs to B-24's.

BH-21
01-30-2006, 05:18 PM
Well, I already have the method for level bombing figured out. I have used it several times.

mandrill7
01-31-2006, 06:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
Well, I already have the method for level bombing figured out. I have used it several times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you let me in on the secret, BH. I haven't figured it out at all. No-one else seems to have figured it out either.

BH-21
01-31-2006, 06:51 AM
Its very simple to intiate, but difficult to actually hit the desired target. Plot your waypoints normally. Meaning 1 waypoint preceeding the gattack waypoint for things like opening bomb bay doors and the flights staying in defensive formation until near the target. Put your gattack waypoint over the target you want to attack, but do not use the set target feature. Also you need a waypoint after the attack and it and the preceeding 2 waypoints (gattack and intial point) need to be in a straight line. If its a moving target your going to have to do it simialr to an intercept. Then put a static camera near by to observe the bomb run. Then you are going to have to run the mission and try to observe the results of the bombs impacts, and move the waypoint accordingly. Only a few places that I have encountered that this has trouble. On the New Guinea map attacking Jackson airfield. For some reason it almost always misses. Also for high altitude bomb drops, you may have to offset the gattack waypoint left or right a bit from the target line. They seem to drift quit a bit. This should get satisfacory results with bombers. If you want samples, try my single mission pack, there are some in there with B-29s, and other bombers.

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-31-2006, 09:09 AM
I am trying to make one. It'll feature the 18th (NEI) squadron of the RAAF. However, it is a bit of a long-term project. Don't expect it in two weeks.

BH-21
01-31-2006, 10:00 AM
Hehe, wasn't the 18th NEI a Netherands unit.

mandrill7
01-31-2006, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
Its very simple to intiate, but difficult to actually hit the desired target. Plot your waypoints normally. Meaning 1 waypoint preceeding the gattack waypoint for things like opening bomb bay doors and the flights staying in defensive formation until near the target. Put your gattack waypoint over the target you want to attack, but do not use the set target feature. Also you need a waypoint after the attack and it and the preceeding 2 waypoints (gattack and intial point) need to be in a straight line. If its a moving target your going to have to do it simialr to an intercept. Then put a static camera near by to observe the bomb run. Then you are going to have to run the mission and try to observe the results of the bombs impacts, and move the waypoint accordingly. Only a few places that I have encountered that this has trouble. On the New Guinea map attacking Jackson airfield. For some reason it almost always misses. Also for high altitude bomb drops, you may have to offset the gattack waypoint left or right a bit from the target line. They seem to drift quit a bit. This should get satisfacory results with bombers. If you want samples, try my single mission pack, there are some in there with B-29s, and other bombers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How high were your B-25's when you did the mission, B-H? Are you sure it wasn't a default programming device re high altitude attacks that kept the Mitchells in formation as opposed to waypoint plotting?

BH-21
02-01-2006, 12:38 PM
I had actually not done it with a B-25 yet. I have done it with He111,Ju88,G4M1s,B-17s,B-24s, and B-29s. I imagine it will be the same. The flight will change formation when the gattack is the next waypoint. Look at stukas and sbds, then get in line ahead, B-24s will spread out of their close formation distance. In my Mission Pack is a very good example of this with B-24s. (IN/A6M5/Guam Defense, or look in IA/Ki-61 or Ki-84/Catching the Wind).

mandrill7
02-01-2006, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
I had actually not done it with a B-25 yet. I have done it with He111,Ju88,G4M1s,B-17s,B-24s, and B-29s. I imagine it will be the same. The flight will change formation when the gattack is the next waypoint. Look at stukas and sbds, then get in line ahead, B-24s will spread out of their close formation distance. In my Mission Pack is a very good example of this with B-24s. (IN/A6M5/Guam Defense, or look in IA/Ki-61 or Ki-84/Catching the Wind). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem you might get is that the urge to dive and strafe will over-ride the waypoints and the B-25's will break formation and head for the topsoil no matter what you do.

BH-21
02-01-2006, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
Put your gattack waypoint over the target you want to attack, but do not use the set target feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed the most important part of what not to do I think. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

BH-21
02-03-2006, 08:43 AM
I did have a B-25 practice mission with this set up. So I did do it with a B-25 and it works, as I thought it would.

mandrill7
02-03-2006, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
Put your gattack waypoint over the target you want to attack, but do not use the set target feature. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed the most important part of what not to do I think. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, BH. I gladly take off my cap and call you Daddy. If you have that mission around still, can you email it to me? I tried everything I could think to get both A-20's and B-25's to stay in formation on an airfield bombing raid in my corsair campaign, but none of the stuff worked - including not setting a target for their gattack WP.

BH-21
02-03-2006, 03:43 PM
How did the bombers start on the map? If they takeoff from a runway on the map. Good luck ever getting them together by variying the flights speeds. If they airstart its realtively easy until you mix aircraft types and or loadout differences. I made my Guam Defense mission with 12 B-24s from the Army with a bombload, but there is 1 B-24 (PB4-Y) from the Navy with no bombload as a recon plane. That was a pain to vary the speed of the recon plane to keep it from running away from the bombers. I even made the whole mess make a turn after the first target and attack a second target, the formation though got more ragged after the turn.

P.S The B-25 one I have is just a single plane attacking targets on a bombing range. So I could get used to the bomb site with it.

red99
02-03-2006, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
I had actually not done it with a B-25 yet. I have done it with He111,Ju88,G4M1s,B-17s,B-24s, and B-29s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Are B-29's flyable in this game?

hotspace
02-03-2006, 04:52 PM
No m8.

BH-21
03-21-2006, 09:14 AM
It seems upon further testing (trying to make one). That the B-25 will only level bomb under the following conditions. Absolutely no scoreable objects in the target area. If there are any objects near the ground attack point the B-25 will try to strafe it like a fighter and will dive/glide bomb it if they have bombs. Don't even mention the AI wackyness with wing men. (B-25 stays in the bone pile it seems for mission building.) Hehe, if we had Rabaul it would be fine.

mandrill7
03-21-2006, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
It seems upon further testing (trying to make one). That the B-25 will only level bomb under the following conditions. Absolutely no scoreable objects in the target area. If there are any objects near the ground attack point the B-25 will try to strafe it like a fighter and will dive/glide bomb it if they have bombs. Don't even mention the AI wackyness with wing men. (B-25 stays in the bone pile it seems for mission building.) Hehe, if we had Rabaul it would be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did a B-25C mission for my upcoming Schlageter '43 campaign which involves the Mitchells level bombing a railway yard in Bayeux with the usual Spit escort and FW190 intercept. The altitude was about 3000 meters IIRC and no targets were set, although normal Gattack waypoints were set out. However, I did liberally strew the railway area with Blue train cars and engines. The B-25's behaved well and did not strafe or dive. Perhaps the key was not designating a target for them. Or perhaps it was the altitude. Or perhaps they cannot be bothered to attack trains. Or maybe B-25C's are not programmed to dive and strafe.

The enigma continues.

VW-IceFire
03-21-2006, 03:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mandrill7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BH-21:
It seems upon further testing (trying to make one). That the B-25 will only level bomb under the following conditions. Absolutely no scoreable objects in the target area. If there are any objects near the ground attack point the B-25 will try to strafe it like a fighter and will dive/glide bomb it if they have bombs. Don't even mention the AI wackyness with wing men. (B-25 stays in the bone pile it seems for mission building.) Hehe, if we had Rabaul it would be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did a B-25C mission for my upcoming Schlageter '43 campaign which involves the Mitchells level bombing a railway yard in Bayeux with the usual Spit escort and FW190 intercept. The altitude was about 3000 meters IIRC and no targets were set, although normal Gattack waypoints were set out. However, I did liberally strew the railway area with Blue train cars and engines. The B-25's behaved well and did not strafe or dive. Perhaps the key was not designating a target for them. Or perhaps it was the altitude. Or perhaps they cannot be bothered to attack trains. Or maybe B-25C's are not programmed to dive and strafe.

The enigma continues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not really an engima. The B-25C has no forward mounted machine guns used by the pilot...just a flexible mount. So the B-25C has a bomber AI. The B-25J has forward guns for strafing...thus the AI considers it a strafer/fighter-bomber and attacks accordingly. The A-20G as well...for obvious reasons.

mandrill7
03-21-2006, 03:49 PM
So the upshot is that the B-25C is safe to use as a level bomber, but all later versions of the plane are dicey?

BH-21
03-22-2006, 07:14 AM
Well the programmers got lazy on the B-25J and didn't give it an altitude sensitive AI like the divebombers and others that react differently to bombing at different altitudes.

Beaufort-RAF
03-24-2006, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

Not really an engima. The B-25C has no forward mounted machine guns used by the pilot...just a flexible mount. So the B-25C has a bomber AI. The B-25J has forward guns for strafing...thus the AI considers it a strafer/fighter-bomber and attacks accordingly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the B25C does have a fixed gun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Next to the flexi, take a close look in the QMB, it's on the starboard side, the same place as the J.

The AI behaviour of the C is fine, no diving down to strafe, no dogfighting.

So this COULD be solved by refining the programming.

mandrill7
03-24-2006, 12:02 PM
It's aleady been suggested that there be different FM's for the solid-nose strafer variants and the glass-nose variants; That way, the glass-noses could be used for level bombing.

mandrill7
03-26-2006, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Not really an engima. The B-25C has no forward mounted machine guns used by the pilot...just a flexible mount. So the B-25C has a bomber AI. The B-25J has forward guns for strafing...thus the AI considers it a strafer/fighter-bomber and attacks accordingly. The A-20G as well...for obvious reasons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried my Bayeux railyards mission again, substituting B-25J's for B-25C's. The bombers were bombing from just over 2,000 meters and had Gattack waypoints set, but no target circles or minimum destruction levels set. The railyards were liberally strewn with Blue railway cars and engines. There was also a Blue flakship off the coast whcih fired at the bomber stream. Spitfire escort and FW-190 interceptors.

Attempt #1: The bombers bombed level on their target with only slight diving and turned away on course. However, they then milled around a little. I then modified the weather conditions from "good" with a little cloud over the target area to "clear". I wanted to see if their confusion stemmed from being unable to percieve ground objects thru the cloud.

Attempt #2: The bombers bombed level with only slight diving and then the a/c I was specifically following turned in the wrong direction and buggered about a little. He then turned properly on course and headed back to the coast. Over the coast, he was hit by FW's and turned a little to try and d/f with them. There were only 3 (of 9) bombers left at this point and no formation worth speaking of and the AI Spits were nowhere to be seen; so maybe the AI reaction was sensible. It is worth noting that with a full bomb load and the initial tight formation and properly formed up escort, the B-25's did not attempt to d/f.

The results were thus better than I had expected. No attempts to strafe or dive bomb. But the planes did attempt to d/f and did not fully keep formation.

I will try further experiments from higher altitude and perhaps without FW's and see what happens.

Daytraders
03-27-2006, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">P.S The B-25 one I have is just a single plane attacking targets on a bombing range. So I could get used to the bomb site with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

can you send me this if you still have it, as i need a training mission for bombing. thx