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View Full Version : Why everyone should use Tab view.



BubbaMc
10-20-2011, 04:53 AM
Just a suggestion, if you think you might be using other learning materials in the future, such as scale diagrams, TAB, chord diagrams, even standard notation - use the tab view instead of the standard view.

i.e. use the view where the low E string (thickest string) is at the bottom - as if you're looking down onto the surface of the fretboard, not through the back of the guitar neck. This is how real Tab and scale/chord diagrams are traditionally laid out and would would be very confusing to someone used to the standard Rocksmith view.

That said, I have not received the game yet so who knows - the standard view could be intuitive, but the issue is something to keep in mind.

BubbaMc
10-20-2011, 04:53 AM
Just a suggestion, if you think you might be using other learning materials in the future, such as scale diagrams, TAB, chord diagrams, even standard notation - use the tab view instead of the standard view.

i.e. use the view where the low E string (thickest string) is at the bottom - as if you're looking down onto the surface of the fretboard, not through the back of the guitar neck. This is how real Tab and scale/chord diagrams are traditionally laid out and would would be very confusing to someone used to the standard Rocksmith view.

That said, I have not received the game yet so who knows - the standard view could be intuitive, but the issue is something to keep in mind.

rmfroyd
10-20-2011, 06:01 AM
I couldn't agree more.

I am pretty used to reading tab, and after trying the game on the default setting for a bit, I quickly inverted it. So much easier.

For a beginner, it may be harder to do it this way at first, but if you are thinking about playing guitar beyond this game, I would invert it right away.

koakawe
10-20-2011, 06:51 AM
Agreed. The Tab view should be the default.

It seemed as if some of the guitarcade games and tutorials default to "Bass E on top" even when I put it in Tab mode though.

Trey_Trey
10-20-2011, 07:58 AM
I believe they talk about that in the "Sting Layout" topic below.

I agree, the tab look should be used if your going to try other songs.

koakawe
10-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Agreed. The default should not be a mirror image of the guitar fretboard.

The "inverted" Tab-like mode should be the default.

RedHotFuzz
10-20-2011, 08:58 PM
I'm not sure why you guys think tab view should be the default when the entire interface of Rocksmith revolves around an actual 3D guitar neck in the typical vertical position. Tab view makes sense if you're looking at a flat fretboard, but you aren't. Frankly I've never understood why tablature is written inversely.

farrgough
10-20-2011, 09:10 PM
A guess...perhaps tab is written inversly (low notes at the bottom) to mirror standard staff notation. It has always made sense to me and i have never thought twice about it until playing Rocksmith, which BTW i have swapped to the tab view so chords are represented in a familiar way.

Martin37
10-20-2011, 09:16 PM
You are Right red is not matter at all...
But I'm that creazy guy keep looking on tabs.. so for me it make sense.

As I said in my previouse post

Regards
Martin.. it's just a mater of what you feel right

r1chard34
10-20-2011, 09:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RedHotFuzz:
I'm not sure why you guys think tab view should be the default when the entire interface of Rocksmith revolves around an actual 3D guitar neck in the typical vertical position. Tab view makes sense if you're looking at a flat fretboard, but you aren't. Frankly I've never understood why tablature is written inversely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because when you glance down at your hand you rotate the guitar towards yourself slightly so you can see your fingers rather than use your X-Ray vision to look through the neck. From that slightly rotated view, the low E is at the bottom of your field of view and the high E is at the top.

Pretty much the way Tab has been written since the battle of Hastings.

Go into any music store and you'll find guitar books written in Tab like this. If you play Rocksmith with the interface inverted, you'll have a much easier time learning the songs in those books.

BubbaMc
10-20-2011, 09:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RedHotFuzz:
I'm not sure why you guys think tab view should be the default when the entire interface of Rocksmith revolves around an actual 3D guitar neck in the typical vertical position. Tab view makes sense if you're looking at a flat fretboard, but you aren't. Frankly I've never understood why tablature is written inversely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Richard said.

When looking at a real fretboard, do you look down onto the surface? Or do you try and look at it through the back of the guiar neck?

Also, having lower pitches towards the bottom and higher pitches towards the top makes an infinite amount of sense musically speaking.

RedHotFuzz
10-20-2011, 09:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by r1chard34:

Because when you glance down at your hand you rotate the guitar towards yourself slightly so you can see your fingers rather than use your X-Ray vision to look through the neck. From that slightly rotated view, the low E is at the bottom of your field of view and the high E is at the top.

Pretty much the way Tab has been written since the battle of Hastings.

Go into any music store and you'll find guitar books written in Tab like this. If you play Rocksmith with the interface inverted, you'll have a much easier time learning the songs in those books. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I know how tab is written on paper (I've read plenty) but it doesn't make much sense in the Rocksmith environment where the notes are flying at you in 3D space.

My point isn't that inverting it is wrong - it's simply a matter of personal preference - my point is that for a beginning player the standard view in Rocksmith makes more intuitive sense than the inverted view if one is more interested in learning to play the guitar than learning to read standard tablature.

Martin37
10-20-2011, 09:46 PM
Just litent this guys because soon or later you will ask for more.. If you are a bigenner you will be lost on tabs...

just revert everinthing will be alaight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards
Martin

IndienStrummer
10-21-2011, 03:11 AM
I've read so many RB3 pro guitar tabs over the past year that I'm used to the low E being on top as it is on the far left in Rock Band, since left-to-right correlates to top-to-bottom--unless you're Chinese I guess. It took me a few months to get used to the vertical scrolling tab in Rock Band, and I can already tell its going to take me a bit longer to get used to Rocksmith's notation. Flipping the fretboard didn't help me any. It's getting used to those colored blocks flying at me in 3D space that I'm getting hung up on. Especially when there are many notes on multiple strings. It's sometimes difficult to tell which note comes first. The good part about that is that it's forcing me to use my ear more to try and discern the intervals between notes instead of just relying on what I'm seeing. Same goes for dynamic difficulty. Instead of just sitting there plucking only the single notes at the beginning stages of the leveler, waiting for the difficulty to ramp up, I try to figure out which notes are missing.

triguy98
10-21-2011, 07:30 AM
I tried inverting it to tab and didn't enjoy it as much in context of the game. Established guitar players MAY find it easier. But after taking a break from guitar for ten years, I don't have any preconceived notions about how things SHOULD be. I just know that Rocksmith works.

And yes, I can read tab. I still have tons of books and Guitar Pro on my computer.

lethalpianowire
10-21-2011, 11:09 AM
Do you guys realize you're arguing a point of preference which is ridiculous?

tab view vs standard view is identical to comparing inverted Y axis for joysticks to normal.

It's a preference which is why it's selectable for you to pick which ever way seems easier for you. Arguing about which should be the default is pointless. Should the default be set differently from what you would have picked - you'd argue to change it = endless loop.

When in doubt - try them both out.
There is no "wrong" choice.

Mr.Meist
10-21-2011, 02:27 PM
i've been playing for years, i can read music, tab and scale diagrams etc. let me just say that it doesnt matter for me how the notes are oriented in the game as far as reading tab. Most tabs are labeled E A D G B E anyway, so you can easily see how it's oriented. i suppose for beginners, it may be different, but i still stand by my personal opinion that it's best to learn is as many different ways as possible, so i like having this extra notation. it just feels like tab to me anyway.

Hab_Fan
10-21-2011, 10:42 PM
I've been playing a couple of years and I have no issues reading tabs with the inverted view and it has become quite natural. I don't know why in the game I find it more comfortable with the view looking through the neck. I think it's because my brain is making the distinction that in that 3D space the notes are coming towards the neck which is see through.

I can see how this could confuse those new to guitar but I would hope that they use other sources to learn and not only the game which would expose them to the inverted view anyways.

AlexLifeson
10-22-2011, 05:22 PM
I tried switching to the TAB mode last night but it made it even worse/more confusing for me. I know how to read tab but for this game it doesnt work since the notes dont scroll left to right like real tab but top to bottom so that wont work very well.

switched it back to normal RS mode view even though I am still getting use to it. Too much 3D / off angle for me. A little less would be perfect.

I realize they couldnt copy the RB mode as that was already patented

DeepDrummer
11-02-2011, 05:16 PM
I prefer the "inverted" view (tab view?) instead of the standard view because every chord chart in the world shows the chords in that view and not as in the standard view. At some point you may actually want to go further than the DLC that comes out of this game and most guitar stuff assumes the inverted (tab) view. Everyone is going to be different but when the chords started coming along I was totally confused until I switched to inverted view (tab?). Then the chords came along and were easily recognised by myself as the finger positions were exactly as they are written in standard chord charts. Personally I'd recommend switching to inverted view rather than standard but I can see the point of looking "through" the neck as well. I'll stick to inverted though. My score moved quicker after doing that.

ForkInSocket
11-02-2011, 05:21 PM
I've been reading tab for a long time. I'm more comfortable with Rocksmith's standard view, but I can see why some might like it inverted for things like chords.

It's not much of a leap between reading tab and finding the right note in Rocksmith.

SeattleSauve
11-02-2011, 05:32 PM
I've spent a TON of time reading tab. I would much rather a view that is much closer to tab... RB3's pro guitar mode with chord numbering on is much easier to read for me because it's closer to tab than RS..

I actually find RS's view is far enough away from tab that I haven't even bothered to shift to "low e on the bottom" mode because my problems aren't related to which string is top/bottom, it's which string is which color, and just trying to figure out which note is coming first when notes across strings are close together etc...

I might try it out the other way around to see if I somehow feel better about it, but my biggest problem with the RS mode is the angles shifting around, and open strings/stuff getting in the way of me seeing the upcomming notes etc...

koakawe
11-02-2011, 07:28 PM
As an experiment, I have been playing in "standard mode" this last week after playing inverted/Bass-E-on-the-bottom up until now.

It doesn't seem to make any difference.
Then again, I'm not exactly Wes Montgomery, so...

Javasaur
11-02-2011, 08:01 PM
I disagree with this completely mainly becasuse it's simply a matter of personal preference and there is no "correct" orientation. Another reason is that this is not tab, so there is no reason to think that it should look like tab. Tab is 2 dimensional and time axis goes left to right. Rocksmith is 3 dimensional and the time axis goes into the screen. I personally like tab the way it is, and I like the default setting of Rocksmith the way it is. I think for Rocksmith it's more natural to have the low E string on top where it actually is in practice. If people like to invert the Rocksmith default view to make it look like tab (which it is not), that's fine by me too.
[correction] Tab is actually 3 dimensional. Time is from left to right, string is in the up and down direction, and the 3rd dimension is the fret number.

ARSMETAL
11-02-2011, 09:44 PM
I agree! I didn't know you could invert the strings at first so I played a few songs in normal view, I didn't like it. Then I discovered you could invert the strings to look like tab. Thats what I'm use to reading so it's perfect.

goldsac
11-02-2011, 10:30 PM
Strange, I'm fully versed in reading tab, and I didn't find the default top-to-bottom view at all jarring when I started playing the game.

I think the default view is more in line with the way I think of the neck intuitively, I guess. I don't invert scales/patterns in my mind to match tab - I invert tab to match my mind. But I'm one to picture patterns from a behind-the-neck perspective - all the power to you if you prefer the bird's-eye view perspective.

I agree with the OP that it might be a good idea to learn using the tab view for beginners, as it will teach good reading habits. That said, I definitely won't be switching. There are too many visual cues that clash with tab, primarily the transparent neck. Tab has the lowest notes at the bottom to mirror standard notation - this makes sense in theory. But visually, tab really is backwards to me, the visual context of the game only making it more apparently so.

All that being said, and like many others have said, suggesting a 'correct' way is pointless. S'all preference.

Goooner1
11-03-2011, 05:02 AM
I'm used to reading tab and don't have a problem with the default setting playing songs.

Only problem I had was in the Chordead game, it was OK with chords I knew, but as when it was one I didn't know the "upside down" chord box totally confused me.

DeepDrummer
11-03-2011, 06:39 AM
Everyone sees things differently for sure and the choice is always yours. I gather that the xbox calls it tab view and the PS3 calls it inverted?

TheDeveloperDad
11-03-2011, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Goooner1:
I'm used to reading tab and don't have a problem with the default setting playing songs.

Only problem I had was in the Chordead game, it was OK with chords I knew, but as when it was one I didn't know the "upside down" chord box totally confused me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This actually explains why I have so much trouble with barre chords. As soon as I hit level 6 I fall apart because I can't place my fingers in the right place. Maybe I'll try Tab and see if it helps.

raynebc
11-03-2011, 12:05 PM
I ran into the same problem recognizing chord diagrams until I set the tab string order. One thing that still bothers me though is that Dawn of the Chordead's chord diagrams have you play the low E string for open position chords when it isn't appropriate. I don't remember all of the chords it did this for, but I believe it did for the A chord. I think they should focus more on teaching people how to play the root position of each chord, and teach inversions later on.

rhinokio
11-03-2011, 07:50 PM
i've used tabs for years, i use rocksmith in default, i was not lost or confused in the slightest.

if anyone playing rocksmith is too stupid to look at a tab and realize its upside down. then there's probably a lot they are going to miss.

my point is . play what feels comfortable to you.

RCblackbelt24
11-06-2011, 07:55 AM
I have been playing guitar for a few years now and I learned reading tab. However I find it much easier to play in standard view because of the way it displays the fretboard. I initially started by changing it over to tablature but i was getting confused by the chord charting. Switched back to standard and havent changed it back since. I think it may have to do with all the time I have spent playing Rockband but I prefer the standard on Rocksmith and still have no trouble reading paper tab. Someone here was right when thy said it was preferential. I imagine it would be good for a "beginner" to use the tab setting but having learned through tab I found standard setting easier.

soniclarity
11-06-2011, 10:36 AM
All the view change does is reverse the strings. It's not a tablature mode, which is why it's still confusing. Tablature doesn't use colors or blocks.

For me, it's still easier to have the low string on the bottom, because I can't view it as if I'm looking through the guitar... that's just not a view that is available to me while I'm actually playing the thing. I'm looking down at the guitar and seeing the low E string at the bottom (which is exactly why it was put there... it makes no sense to have the lowest note at the top).

Rediron7673
01-24-2014, 06:06 AM
Ok, thanks for all your input but I think I understand now...:

There is no right or wrong but there is a choice of views:
1) Mirror - this is the standard view with the fat/low E on top - as you would see standing in front of a mirror or holding a guitar made of glass and stretching out your arms to see through the back
2) Inverted Strings (tablature style) - the fat/low E is at the bottom this is basically the view you see when you are holding the guitar and looking down at the strings or set it on the table in front of you.

It'd be hard to say which is more natural, but I assume RS researched it with real people and decided on the mirror style as the default. Since they target guitar noobs like me, maybe this made sense. BUT, before RS, I did start with tabs and tabs also took a little getting used too. I prefer the up/down view that is used to show chords but this is obviously limited when you have to show the notes/chords that follow. Now, I am having difficulty adapting back and forth between RS and other tab based materials/videos.. So, for me, since tabs is what every other training source is using, it seems to make sense to invert the RS. I tried the 'mirror video' option and I have no idea what if anything changed.

So, it DOES matter and you should choose based on whether or not you intend to go beyond RS for learning. I do appreciate that RS made the option available.

In RS2014, you can invert to tab style by selecting Tools - Options - Play Settings - Invert Strings.

thoman23
01-24-2014, 06:44 AM
Wow...2011. The arguments of "standard" vs "inverted" seem so quaint now. As we all know, in 2014 this debate is firmly settled with everyone in unanimous agreement as to the One True Way to view your strings. Ah, things were so much different back then.

VarriusTX
01-24-2014, 07:30 AM
I play BF sometimes also, and it took me all of about an hour to get used to it upside down (according to RS). At least for me, it isn't going to hamper any future learning, and I've already gotten used to RS being displayed the way it is by default.

AndrewHutch
01-24-2014, 08:21 AM
Doesn't everyone just play Red 2? If anything I find that the oblique angle makes the timing harder to see. Can we have just one string to make the timing better?