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steinsoldat
02-16-2005, 11:31 AM
If you could surrender or take prisoners, that would defintaely create some realism in the game....

steinsoldat
02-16-2005, 11:31 AM
If you could surrender or take prisoners, that would defintaely create some realism in the game....

Samy_Fisher
02-16-2005, 11:33 AM
hmm... don't think so... Do you want to go to a work camp?? Isn't much fun if you ask me.

andromedam31
02-16-2005, 11:34 AM
what's fun about surrendering?

jd-scrubs
02-16-2005, 11:35 AM
No you cant surrender, kill or be killed.

Same goes for the Germans that you encounter

steinsoldat
02-16-2005, 11:35 AM
It would be fun to take some people alive, though...

Sgt_George_Luz
02-16-2005, 11:35 AM
im not gonna push the surrender button...forget that. and if i see the germans surrender (raising arms) well...im gonna practice my aim...

oldschool1992
02-16-2005, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by steinsoldat:
If you could surrender or take prisoners, that would defintaely create some realism in the game.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why do you want to surrender are you French or something? lol

steinsoldat
02-16-2005, 11:39 AM
Do you people ever read? Did I say that I would do it? Or that it would be fun? No..I simply stated it would add some real content to the game...

Fun or not, it is a major part of war...at least in WW2. But maybe you guys didn't know that...

btw, french? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif No way....

jd-scrubs
02-16-2005, 11:41 AM
These paratroopers didnt take prisoners, nowhere to put them, and you cant exactly have them following you around till you get to base http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

master_pie74
02-16-2005, 11:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sgt_George_Luz:
im not gonna push the surrender button...forget that. and if i see the germans surrender (raising arms) well...im gonna practice my aim... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And after you will be 'arrested'and stay in jail ur whole life hahaha

andromedam31
02-16-2005, 12:00 PM
I can't read.

A.K.Davis
02-16-2005, 12:44 PM
Sometimes the paratroopers took prisoners, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes they took prisoners and then killed them. Surrending not being in the game has nothing to do with history, it just does not add anything to the gameplay.

DarkCanuck420
02-16-2005, 01:18 PM
You are dropped behind enemy lines where are you going to put prisoners? in your pocket? the only place they will end up is 3 feet under.

Sgt_George_Luz
02-16-2005, 01:41 PM
master_pie74

Patton: When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do.

trust me...some germans probably did try to surrender...and some were probably blasted anyways by the paratroopers and other branches of the military during the war and of all countires...it did not always go punished...

mistahimaskwa
02-16-2005, 01:53 PM
even if you were allowed to take prisoners, what are you gonna do with them? They'd just get in your way.

digital10101
02-16-2005, 02:44 PM
ur BEHIND enemy lines...where would u take them? to the enemy? and say "o look..i got some of ur men..can u keep them? feed them little and work them 22 hours a day? thx."

Olivard
02-16-2005, 04:53 PM
take no germans prisoner just shoot them in the face one bullet no food has to be givin to them

TDC_kar98
02-16-2005, 05:01 PM
Oldschool quit with the French thing.

wse_jack-ryan
02-16-2005, 05:09 PM
Does any one remember in Band of Brothers, like the seccond episode when the paratroopers had finnished the first part of the action, they had all of the surrenduerd germans under gaurd as the dude passed by he made fun of a few and found out that one was from organ and moved for his familys sake; and when he is walking away all of the germans are given cigarettes and you hear a bunch of firing and the paratrooper turns around and says "****".

My social studies teacher was talking about that and how the paratroopers couldent afford the man power to take and gaurd captives, so most germans who surrenderd were shot on sight. It was a ****ty thing to do but ****ty situations call for ****ty things. GEARBOX could have done that but it would have ment a lot of extra work for no real reason, compared to all of the work they did in the first place.

Plus In Raven shield I was so twitchy that I ended up shooting the poor bastards anyways when the occasonal surrendurd, and if one did survive, the whole cuffing thing was kind of stupid, expecialy cause you just left them there.

cond99
02-16-2005, 07:25 PM
There was an event outside Father Sampsons Aid Station I believe (i could be wrong) where one trooper brought back 2 German SS prisoners and then a seargent who was there then mowed them down with his thompson sub machinegun. Im not sure if thats how the story went exactly but it was around those lines and I was at the place in August with author M Bando. There was another account where a tank had rolled up along a paratrooper with 2 SS prisoners also and the tanker told him to forget it, retrieved the thompson in the tank and mowed the two prisoners down. There are at least 4 accounts of prisoners wounding up being killed in Normandy. Like where Don Burgette was lined up by the officer by Leo Gillis corner and German paratroopers came from the side and stuck mp 40s out of the hedge and opened fire on the, two german prisoners that where there tried to escape and some trooper with a thompson shot them before that, they hit the bank so hard the eyeballs popped out of their sockets. (funny how these involve thompsons dont they?)

like i said dont hold me word for word on those events when i have more free time ill look it up and type it out.

loptica
02-16-2005, 07:28 PM
Of course they took prisoners. You could see that in Band of Brothers in Holland. The paratroopers are army unit with medics, supply, hqs -- they had to have a unit watching prisoners.
Although on the other hand, in Bastogne they couldnt supply themselves and the Germans, could they? Interesting topic to research.
But they had to take prisoners or the Germans would never surrender to them in the first place=more allied casualties.

digital10101
02-16-2005, 09:41 PM
I seriously believe the people who surrender SHOULD not be killed no matter what the situation. i mean u have these guys (espically germans, fighting for a cause even THEY didnt know about)...whats up with that? i m sure most didnt want to join the army in the first place...****ed up hitler and his conscription...
if i was a soldier in that time...they would be no way i could kill someone who surrendered (well, i dont think i can kill a man no matter what)...

its just rong. and that "desperate __ calls for desperate measures..." doesnt work..

dustybones
02-16-2005, 09:44 PM
if you could take prisoners one could pull a lt. spears.

wse_jack-ryan
02-17-2005, 04:37 AM
History shows what happend not what you think should happen, and the fact is that you don't risk your life or the lives of your men for a prisoner who would have been dead with his friends if it had been a few secconds earlier. I know it sounds ****ty but war is pretty ****ty. History would be nice if we could go back and Oliver Stone it but we can't. This game is a representation of history not morals.

"Of course they took prisoners. You could see that in Band of Brothers in Holland."

But that was after they had a base of operations and a foot hold. On D-day when this game takes place, they had no time or recources for prisoners.

jd-scrubs
02-17-2005, 04:51 AM
Yeah digital like wse_jack-ryan said, sh√¬*tty situations call for sh√¬*tty solutions.

Its just something they had to do.

In BoB, when O'keefe is eager to get into battle etc. then these 2/3 FRENCH troops shoot some germans that had surrendered. O'keefe's face is a sight thenn.....give the man an Oscar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif bravo

wse_jack-ryan
02-17-2005, 05:08 AM
I remember that, was that the holocaust one? I thought they were british troops?

jd-scrubs
02-17-2005, 05:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wse_jack-ryan:
I remember that, was that the holocaust one? I thought they were british troops? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, they were french.

People often mistake them for british or even american troops

wse_jack-ryan
02-17-2005, 07:40 AM
hey I would kill them just to get my reputation back if I were french.

A.K.Davis
02-17-2005, 08:39 AM
Don't turn this into an apologist thread for any side of the war. The Paratroopers received direct orders not to take prisoners during the night of June 6. Paradoxically, the same order reminds the paratroopers that Germany was a signatory of the Geneva Convention and that they are required only to give name, rank and serial number if captured.

Both sides sometimes chose not to take prisoners. This decision was sometimes circumstantial to the operational situation, but also often emotional. Both side sometimes took prisoners and then executed them. You can try to rationalize it all you want, but any justification you give for paratroopers executing prisoners would apply equally to the SS during the Malmedy massacre (they were pushing deep into enemy lines and faced a similar logistical dilemma regarding the handling of prisoners). Don't forget German officers were put on trial and sentenced for this war crime.

If you believe the Geneva Conventions were not applicable to the Second World War (and perhaps they weren't), just be sure you apply that conviction equally.

wse_jack-ryan
02-17-2005, 09:56 PM
It's kind of a sad example because only 12 officers were hanged. I know this because I got the question wrong on my test.


I dont think that the geneva convention had happened during WW2. The article on prisoners and treatment was passed august 12, 1949.

Wether they were given specific orders or not, It's not like they could have taken prisoners in the first place. War is something that cannot be justified, no matter how just it is. I know that dosent make sence but in the grand scheme of things it does. You can legaly justify taking a life as an act of war but in reality most of those people wernt evil. Most of the people in Iraq are not evil, they are brought up to belive something that clashes to the world opinion of equality, freedom, and as a progression of our culture we need to stop them from regressing it. Imagine being a women, then having your ****orus the most sensitive part in your bodey cut off at the age of 8. If that dosent suck enough it also makes sex hurt like a ***** for the rest of your life. Some call that evil, I sure as **** do, but it is likley that he was raised to believe that, that was right. You cannot justify killing him save by the fact that he would kill you first and that is sadly what war is to the soldier. Kill or be Killed. That is what this game is trying to show over other games like it.

We do terrible things for the common good and in 1944, do you think that in the end they felt good about mowing down prisoners? They probably can't even justify it, even now 60 years later. But as I said war is a ****ty thing, and ****ty times call for ****ty deeds and ****ty actions. You don't have time to think in situations like this till its done. Then you cry.

oldschool1992
02-17-2005, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by digital10101:
I seriously believe the people who surrender SHOULD not be killed no matter what the situation. i mean u have these guys (espically germans, fighting for a cause even THEY didnt know about)...whats up with that? i m sure most didnt want to join the army in the first place...****ed up hitler and his conscription...
if i was a soldier in that time...they would be no way i could kill someone who surrendered (well, i dont think i can kill a man no matter what)...

its just rong. and that "desperate __ calls for desperate measures..." doesnt work.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

then your own commander would shoot your sorry **** for being a wuss

oldschool1992
02-17-2005, 10:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wse_jack-ryan:
It's kind of a sad example because only 12 officers were hanged. I know this because I got the question wrong on my test.


I dont think that the geneva convention had happened during WW2. The article on prisoners and treatment was passed august 12, 1949.

Wether they were given specific orders or not, It's not like they could have taken prisoners in the first place. War is something that cannot be justified, no matter how just it is. I know that dosent make sence but in the grand scheme of things it does. You can legaly justify taking a life as an act of war but in reality most of those people wernt evil. Most of the people in Iraq are not evil, they are brought up to belive something that clashes to the world opinion of equality, freedom, and as a progression of our culture we need to stop them from regressing it. Imagine being a women, then having your ****orus the most sensitive part in your bodey cut off at the age of 8. If that dosent suck enough it also makes sex hurt like a ***** for the rest of your life. Some call that evil, I sure as **** do, but it is likley that he was raised to believe that, that was right. You cannot justify killing him save by the fact that he would kill you first and that is sadly what war is to the soldier. Kill or be Killed. That is what this game is trying to show over other games like it.

We do terrible things for the common good and in 1944, do you think that in the end they felt good about mowing down prisoners? They probably can't even justify it, even now 60 years later. But as I said war is a ****ty thing, and ****ty times call for ****ty deeds and ****ty actions. You don't have time to think in situations like this till its done. Then you cry. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IF I am not mistaken the airborne were given orders not to take prisoners on D-Day

SirSmokeal0t
02-17-2005, 10:12 PM
He meant it more like mowing down a soldier who surrendered. If half a squad suddenly stops fighting and surrenders, you basically have a whole group of prisoners. That doesn't mean you're actually taking them as prisoners.

digital10101
02-17-2005, 10:12 PM
they had to clear the way...no time to take trips to ur friendly neighborhood POW camps...but still..like i said...shooting people who surrender, or u captured is morally disgracing.

oldschool1992
02-17-2005, 10:24 PM
A friend of mine at work is a NAM vet and he said they regularly shot prisoners in the head with their .45's (while questioning them to get them to talk) and would also wrap them in "det" cord to make them talk. And if they didnt talk they would detonate the cord and depending on what was wrapped well you can imagine the body parts not left.