German tail fin

[JCS33157]

My problem with these "accurate" games is why cant they get an accurate depiction of actual historical fact? Every single German plane that flew during WW2 that had a tail fin also had a Swastika painted on it not an Iron Cross, yet evry single pic of planes either has nothing on it or the Iron Cross. I know the hurt that the swastika represents to many people but it is History and to make an accurate depiction of those times and leave that out is to make an inaccurate historical depiction.

[JCS33157]

My problem with these "accurate" games is why cant they get an accurate depiction of actual historical fact? Every single German plane that flew during WW2 that had a tail fin also had a Swastika painted on it not an Iron Cross, yet evry single pic of planes either has nothing on it or the Iron Cross. I know the hurt that the swastika represents to many people but it is History and to make an accurate depiction of those times and leave that out is to make an inaccurate historical depiction.

[stroler1]

swastika emblems are banned in Germany and probably elsewhere in the world too...why would I want to make an accurate game that gets banned as a result and therefore cannot be sold...just go and take a look at Battlefield 1942...look no swastikas...gaming has to keep abreast of real world laws too u know.

[Hothand283]

I think you're wrong on the law part: Call of Duty 2 has the emblem and I believe "sons of liberty" screens also have them as well. It doesn't bother me that they're not on the planes; we all know they used it, so no big deal imo. This game isn't historically accurate anyway, so it makes no difference to me.

[Mr.Hanky2005]

Hothand, it is true, the swastika is banned in Germany. With the COD2 maps on the marketplace, it says in the map description "Product can not be downloaded in Austria, Germany, and a few other countries.

I don't know about "Son of liberty".

[Hothand283]

wow, interesting. Must be rules that carried over from the end of WW2. Like I said, though, it doesn't affect the game IMO, and I don't miss it not being on the tailfin.

Btw, I meant "fall of liberty", not "sons of liberty". Sorry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif!
http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3153349

[PolecatEZ]

Absolutely true, we couldn't pass the German ratings board with any kind of nazi references in the game, so the designer/artist stance was just to creatively work around it. Didn't make sense to have 2 versions of the game. I personally don't think we lost anything in the game image we were trying to project.

It wasn't even close to the biggest "content restriction" challenge though, the biggest was probably lack of American aircraft licensing...but we did pretty well that way also. This is one of the things that led to the "over the top" Indiana Jones styling and the cool expiremental weapons. If we couldn't have half of reality, we'll make it fun instead.

[haarspalter]

hi, i am from germany, i would like to comment on the swastika-censorship in germany. here in germany, if i tell people i am interested in ww2 fighter planes, it is enough for fellow citizens to accuse me of being a nazi (which i am not). i talked to people telling them my gaming experiences with tropico (a tongue-in-cheek dictator-sim in a cuba-fidel-castro-look), and the reaction to this was that i was called a nazi (which i am not)and that i should be hanged. plastic model ww2 planes sold here are missing the swastika stickers. swastikas are only allowed here in historical documentaries.a short while ago there was a lawsuit here against a punk mailorder selling anti-nazi stuff with crossed-out swastikas, the argument being that it suggests to foreigners there could be nazi´s still here in germany (!), and therefore it being unlawful. the punk was found guilty and sentenced, much to the joy of all german nazi´s (who are not allowed to call themselves nazi´s, they call themselves national-democrats). after a public outrage and a second trial he was then found not guilty and now crossed-out swastikas are legal now. pictures of adolf hitler are illegal in video games, unless his characteristic beard is shaved off (if you find it hard to believe, check out the old german wolfenstein!). nazi-symbols or persons representing national-socialism are illegal in games because games are treated as toys and are not accredited by law as being art or historical documentary. looking at games like medal of honor (i am referring to the german part 1 on playstation1), nazi´s were very happy at the fact that nazi-symolism was banned in the game, plus adolf hitler in the intro missing, simply because they themselves could play the game without shooting nazi´s and because this law ended up being understood as suggesting that it is not allowed or amoral to fight against nazi´s. this law has not served to stop even one person being a nazi, instead it has been helpful for the nazi´s, people have accidentally voted the nazi party NPD here, because the NPD (making use of the fact) looking alot like a left-wing party to people not much familiar with politics (the name even suggests that they are democrats, which they have to call themselves to be able to take part in legal politics).
i personally am against any censorship and i would not have any problems with nazi-symbols in games, but in online gaming i prefer not to fly a plane bearing a swastika simply because i would be afraid that it could become political or be misunderstood. gaming should all be about fun and/or historical interest, sporty challenges in a friendly manner, not for politics. sadly as a german online i meet americans, english, australians again and again who immediately insult me as being a nazi (which i am not) or laugh at ME that they won the war (hey, i was born 1978, hitler and nazi-germany ceased to exist in 1945! it wasn´t MY war! believe it or not, there are still americans who honestly believe that adolf hitler is alive and currently ruling germany!!! they seriously ask what it is like living under hitler today!!! it happens, and they are surprised to hear he died over 50 years ago!!!). i grew up in australia partially, and due to this i can understand these people. all you hear there in school and tv about germany is world war 2, hitler, concentation camps all over the place and so on and so forth. teachers there would mob me, calling me a nazi and treating me bad (greetings mrs. white!), i didn´t even know what a nazi is at the time, i was just a small child who loved he-man and transformers and ghostbusters! i later began to understand what all the hate against me was all about. what i do not understand here is, if swastikas are banned, why aren´t hammer and sichel communist symbols banned??? they killed even more people (stalin´s or mao´s death toll surpasses even hitler, communism is just as gruesome, just look at pol pot!).
i just wanted to say: for historically-correct visuals, i would love swastikas and hammer and sichels in games, but i prefer to play peaceful friendly fair games with people from all over the world, it is fun and really nice to talk to most of them, so it is probably best to keep political symbols out, because sadly some judge others before they even get to know them.
have fun, be fair, peace everyone! it´s just a game, not war!

[stroler1]

^ listen to this oak.....he knows what he is talking about...history proves to us that for future survival tolerance is not a virtue...its a neceseity...as our civilization or species matures...so MUST our attitudes. I am fortunate to share a country with a great man that CAN change attitudes...that man: Nelson Mandela

Peace brother!!!

[Kada-Dix]

I'm happy to forego the realisim for the sake of these laws, for some people it's still a sensitive issue.

haarspalter i'm sorry to hear about the abuse you have had directed to you in the past online, I hope you understand that it's only the view of childish ignorant fools and not indicative of wider opinions

[scharf]

The entire world is contaminated with ignorance. People nowadays dont give a damn for culture or history, for them is just a boring subject they used to learn in school.

In my point of view, this new generation will be the most ignorant of all times. Consumism and this stupid Media are factores responsible for the inexistence of culture in some countries.

Talking about Symbolism, the Swastika symbol is represented in dozens of cultures, even in the Ancient Times. The Swastika is always remembered as a Nazi Symbol, but they forget about the real origin of it.

I Was playing Blazing Angels 2, and at the Taranto Mission, I noticed there are lots of Italian flags from the fascist period of Mussolini. Why it was not taken out from the game then ?

I care 100% for history realism in games, but sometimes these stupid law restrictions make games more stupid. In COD 2 for instance, russians do not speak their mother language, but with an english with russian accent . Whats the big deal from these guys ? "Because people would understand better english when playing multiplayers sessions than russian ?" Im brazilian, even I do understand english, I would like to play in a game where the language speaking is respected.

I Do not know hows gonna be the future of mankind if ignorance trespass culture.

[wallis96]

The reason they don't have the swastika is due to political correctness aka spastic gay talk, it's silly as it makes us think that German planes didn't have that. I got a model JU 87 Stuka that didn't feature a swastika on the tail on the box art so the transfers had it in two halves

[staffel77]

Wow! I just joined and am reading through these old posts for entertainment. That swastika certainly can cause an uproar, can't it? Austrian born Adolf Hitler didn't exactly invent it, it's been around for centuries before, mostly used as a good luck symbol, and it certainly wasn't used as a personal insult to Jews in WWII, although most of 'em nodays view it that way. The laws Germany has in place today were forced upon it by the Allies after WWII, those being mainly America and England, and those happen to include the outlawing of the beforementioned symbols. So when one visits an airshow in Germany today, you won't see any swastikas adorning the tailfins of any vintage German WWII aircraft, unlike America, where they are proudly displayed regardless of any whining by Jewish groups. WWII reenactment groups here in the US also proudly wear their either original or repro German WWII uniforms, swastikas and all. Kind of ironic, isn't it? The country that had the most to do with outlawing these symbols in Germany has no problem displaying them right here at home. On 2/10/2012, the Idaho Statesman, a newspaper in Boise, Idaho, displayed a photo of a US "Sniper Scout" team in Afganistan posing in front of 2 flags. The top flag was the US flag and the one underneath was an equally large black flag bearing the unmistakable SS symbol. They claimed the SS symbol, which by the way was an EXACT COPY of the one used by Germany in WWII, stood for Sniper Scout. The Marine Corps qouted "naivitee" as an excuse. Can anyone be that uneducated? I'm just like Haarspalter (Hairsplitter), I'm a post WWII German raised in Sydney, Australia who's parents moved to the US at the end of 1963 and I'm still here and can read and write English better than most Americans. My father was an ME-109G-14 fighter pilot of Jagdgeschwader 7./77 (Herz As) , hence my user name, who spent 3 years on the Russian front and flew his last combat mission out of Stavanger/Sola on the SW tip of Norway and didn't have a thing to do with any Nazi Party, concentration camps, an English invention by the way, or the killing of Jews. He just shot down planes and strafed the hell out of anything that got in front of his gun sights. The guys in his squadron "Kämpften für Gott, Vaterland und Brüder", (Fought for God, Fatherland and Brothers), just like anyone else who fought for theirs. The only difference was that they couldn't wimp out after 25 combat missions and go back home to sell war bonds like US fliers did, they had to fight to the last and hoped they survived. He did.