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View Full Version : What if? ...An Alternate Story Mode.



Mutton-Chops
09-07-2007, 09:01 AM
All the Haze coverage lately has been focusing on the Promise Hand's tactics of exploiting Nectar. It's been Spoiler after Spoiler. I know FRD has been focusing on asymmetrical balance, but the gameplay footage I've seen makes the Mantel troopers look like a joke. It's just Shane Carpenter mopping the floor with them... with a knife! There's been so much coverage of the rebel gameplay that I'm becoming more interested in the Mantel half of the game. Seems like I'm not the only one that feels this way. The Poll on the homepage shows that 57% of the people who responded are more interested in the Mantel playing style.

The premise and storyline for the game are fantastic as is, the whole realization and the calling into question of your morals, both as the main character and as a gamer playing an FPS. Bringing the bloody consequences of your actions to bear. But what if there were a more open-ended storyline where you could make choices along the way that affect the end outcome. The game seems very linear in that at point x you join the rebels and continue on you merry way. What if there were several points, after you start getting an inkling of what Mantel is really about, where you're faced with a moral decision? Where you can do what you are sworn to Mantel to do, or do good for the rebel cause while still within Mantel, before out and out switching sides. This is just a brainfart I had. Maybe the game already progresses in this fashion, but from wht I've seen it seems much more linear. Seems like you just witness atrocities as a trooper and then switch. Too early to tell for sure I guess.

Now, The real big brainfart. A completely alternate story mode. It'd be cool if you could choose from the very beginning which side you wanted to play as. Choose the storyline we're familiar with or choose one in which you start as a Rebel but at some point, lured by high rank, money and power, you join Mantel. As a former Rebel you could supply Mantel with Intel on Promise Hand ops and tactics. Give them the means to counter the nectar counter attacks and crush the Rebellion. Could be interesting. Of course the whole point of calling morals to question would lose it's impact with this type of story mode.

It's probably an awful lot to fit into one game but this sort of thing has been done before. The whole Light Side vs Dark Side of The Force. I'm going to be perfectly content with the game however it turns out. Just wanted to throw this out there and spark some conversation. Got feedback? Got braingas? Let it out here.

Mutton-Chops
09-07-2007, 09:01 AM
All the Haze coverage lately has been focusing on the Promise Hand's tactics of exploiting Nectar. It's been Spoiler after Spoiler. I know FRD has been focusing on asymmetrical balance, but the gameplay footage I've seen makes the Mantel troopers look like a joke. It's just Shane Carpenter mopping the floor with them... with a knife! There's been so much coverage of the rebel gameplay that I'm becoming more interested in the Mantel half of the game. Seems like I'm not the only one that feels this way. The Poll on the homepage shows that 57% of the people who responded are more interested in the Mantel playing style.

The premise and storyline for the game are fantastic as is, the whole realization and the calling into question of your morals, both as the main character and as a gamer playing an FPS. Bringing the bloody consequences of your actions to bear. But what if there were a more open-ended storyline where you could make choices along the way that affect the end outcome. The game seems very linear in that at point x you join the rebels and continue on you merry way. What if there were several points, after you start getting an inkling of what Mantel is really about, where you're faced with a moral decision? Where you can do what you are sworn to Mantel to do, or do good for the rebel cause while still within Mantel, before out and out switching sides. This is just a brainfart I had. Maybe the game already progresses in this fashion, but from wht I've seen it seems much more linear. Seems like you just witness atrocities as a trooper and then switch. Too early to tell for sure I guess.

Now, The real big brainfart. A completely alternate story mode. It'd be cool if you could choose from the very beginning which side you wanted to play as. Choose the storyline we're familiar with or choose one in which you start as a Rebel but at some point, lured by high rank, money and power, you join Mantel. As a former Rebel you could supply Mantel with Intel on Promise Hand ops and tactics. Give them the means to counter the nectar counter attacks and crush the Rebellion. Could be interesting. Of course the whole point of calling morals to question would lose it's impact with this type of story mode.

It's probably an awful lot to fit into one game but this sort of thing has been done before. The whole Light Side vs Dark Side of The Force. I'm going to be perfectly content with the game however it turns out. Just wanted to throw this out there and spark some conversation. Got feedback? Got braingas? Let it out here.

Toad17
09-07-2007, 09:11 AM
But it's the story of Shane Carpenter. It would be cool if you had more freedom but this is one man's account. Might make for an interesting sequel if you could play from the perspective of another trooper though ^_^

mornelithe
09-07-2007, 09:53 AM
Yeah, I'd pondered this one myself, since FRD and Co. had been stating that it's really 'two games in one', I'd wondered if, by way of actions, or choices, you could forgo joining the promised hand, and just be a Mantel Trooper the entire time. But, it doesn't seem that the game allows for that. Either way, it's gonna be a ton of fun!


Morne

deded999
09-07-2007, 11:50 AM
The illusion of choice is an area fraught with pitfalls though; give you a choice of which side to go with, sure, but then you'll start to ask, why can't I go that way? Why can't I shoot him? Why can't I change sides back? The more choices offered the more (impossibly) difficult and time-consuming the game-design has to be. In some ways it would be great to see, but player choice is virtually (pun sort of intended) anathema to effective story-telling.

No matter how great that single choice is, if you're only offered one point to choose in the story, rather than whenever you want, what choice is there really? Besides, the best action stories are about people that have the solitary choice to either die or survive and go forward. Really, in games you are offered that choice every time you 'die' - will you give up or carry on playing?

And, although I can definetly understand where you're coming from Mutton-chops, let's not second guess the storyline before we get to see it; I'm sure it's not quite as simple and clear-cut as you make it out to be. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mornelithe
09-07-2007, 11:57 AM
Oh definitely Deded, and I agree to a certain point. However, with games like Stalker - Shadow of Chernobyl, and other games that have multiple endings (Stalker has 7), it's the choices you make that determine the course of the game/story line. You know?

deded999
09-08-2007, 03:05 AM
Okay, granted, but in my experience, (I haven't played Stalker), the types of games that do this, like Adventures and RPG's quite often don't let you know that you're even making a choice when you do it - how many of these games do you have to check an FAQ to get the alternate ending, or find a certain object to get it? That's counter-intuitive to me. If you're going to be offered a choice, it should usually, (although not necessarily I'll grant you), be fairly obvious that you are going to change things by your decision.

X-Trooper-X
09-10-2007, 09:00 AM
im going to agree, the story line looks limited in its possibilities, BUT, im not one to compare games, cause most games have different style. but if the HAZE online play is good, that all everyone will play, refering to resistance. the campaign, people played it and beat it, BUT everyone really played for the online, so i wouldnt be too worried about the story... even tho i will want to beat the campaign in the hardest mode, but i'll really just wanna play online!

mornelithe
09-11-2007, 08:31 AM
Well, that's a fairly astute assessment of how most games alternate endings occur, however, in Stalker, the whole game is basically choice. It's almost Oblivion-esque in-so-far that you've your main story line, and then you've got side missions galore. So the choice in Stalker is merely...do I just go for the quickest route, or do I explore a 50 square mile map fully, and so on.

This may not be applicable in Haze, but I was just thinking that obviously something occurs to push Shane to switching sides... and if the moment that that occurs is due to a proximity trigger, or some other kind of trigger (ie after a certain battle etc...), it would be kind of cool if FRD had designed it so that at that point, that if you're not really bothered by what's transpired, you could essentially continue fighting for Mantel by either healing up, or re-arming yourself etc... (again, not sure what causes Shane to switch...and when it happens) and just start fighting again or move to point Y etc...

Morne

Definitely check out Stalker if you get the chance, it's definitely worthy of purchase, and online is pretty fun.

Mutton-Chops
09-11-2007, 09:08 AM
Based on screenshots and trailers there are several points where Shane experiences "Nectar Disruption" (http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/813/813327/haze-20070816024008078.jpg) which gives him brief glimpses of the uncensored reality. He starts putting two and two together but there has to be one major event that acts as the final catalyst in his switch to The Promise Hand. Which I guess would be "The day he was ambushed"

deded999
09-11-2007, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mornelithe:
...however, in Stalker, the whole game is basically choice. It's almost Oblivion-esque in-so-far that you've your main story line, and then you've got side missions galore. So the choice in Stalker is merely...do I just go for the quickest route, or do I explore a 50 square mile map fully, and so on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure if you're already recognising this or not, but I personally wouldn't refer to Oblivion as being a game involving much choice when it comes to the story. There may be the illusion of choice, (and I have to admit that after 150 hours I still haven't finished the story), but my impression was that the choice you got was when to play the story events, not the choice to alter the way they eventually happen. If I'm wrong then fair enough, although try to avoid spoilers - like I said, I haven't finished it yet! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Definitely check out Stalker if you get the chance, it's definitely worthy of purchase, and online is pretty fun. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I ever get time with all the games coming out this year, I might, thanks.

mornelithe
09-11-2007, 12:10 PM
Hehe, ok fair enough, I've not played much of Oblivion, but I do know it's got a plethora of side quests that aren't actually a necessity to the main storyline. All I was trying to say, is that while you have a main story line in Stalker, you also have the side missions, and the side missions while up front, they may not effect the outcome of your game, in the back end, the exploration and such (as well as certain other FAQ needed requirements) to open up alternate endings. =) So my apologies, bad game to use as an example.


Morne

deded999
09-12-2007, 02:45 AM
Hmmm, not necessarily - you need to bring up a multitude of games with different story approaches to be able to discuss it properly. Deus Ex is one of my all-time favourite games, and had one of the best stories I've played yet. Although the main story was still fairly linear, (plenty of side quests), it had four alternate endings and offered the chance to do things you wouldn't necessarily expect, like killing certain characters at different points. MGS3 offered you the chance to do this by sniping The End way before you meet him in battle too.

Although none of these really change the story they do give you the sense that you have more freedom than you actually do, something Deus Ex achieved in spades and which other games could well do with trying to emulate. The design of Deus Ex as an FPS/RPG, (Oblivion is somewhat similar), certainly helps this happen though - a straight FPS doesn't offer the same possibilities for character interaction or exploration/manipulation of the environment.

mornelithe
09-12-2007, 11:03 AM
Well, to be honest, I've really not played alot of games where alternate endings are a common thing. Stalker, GTA (and this is merely achievements and bonus'), The 11th Hour (old PC game, sequel to the 7th Guest)...that's really all that's coming to mind at the moment. I just think it'd be sweet to have games that allow for multiple endings/storylines based upon your decisions, be them morale or ethical, or some other driving factor.

KingSilvaback90
09-14-2007, 07:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X-Trooper-X:
im going to agree, the story line looks limited in its possibilities, BUT, im not one to compare games, cause most games have different style. but if the HAZE online play is good, that all everyone will play, refering to resistance. the campaign, people played it and beat it, BUT everyone really played for the online, so i wouldnt be too worried about the story... even tho i will want to beat the campaign in the hardest mode, but i'll really just wanna play online! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i agree with you X. Thats basiclly why i think people played Halo and Gears as well. Yeah in order to look like a fan they memorized the story but they just love the game for the fragfests just like we are probably going to do with Haze

Wii4Mii
10-04-2007, 07:01 PM
I guess that would be good, but I actually like that it's linear. But it's still too short, as it only takes place over three days. I mean god damn, he is a Mantel Trooper, finds something wrong with Mantel, makes a decision, crosses over, is a good Rebel, etc in only 72 hours?

deded999
10-05-2007, 02:27 AM
There's obviously a little more to Shane's story arc than that - that sandwich game only lasts about the same period of time, if not less, (Sandwich: Coleslaw Evolved I mean, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif)

MauserMilitary
10-05-2007, 02:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deded999:
that sandwich game only lasts about the same period of time, if not less </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You know you loved every second of it deded. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif