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ZartaxTW
05-11-2006, 12:34 PM
This is not so much a bug as a presentation error. Whenever one creature attacks another their numbers are withdrawn directly in the ATB bar, instead of when they are actually struck on the battlefield. I keep finding myself looking at the bar to get the results quickly instead of at the battlefield. If this would change I would appreciate it much.

ZartaxTW
05-11-2006, 12:34 PM
This is not so much a bug as a presentation error. Whenever one creature attacks another their numbers are withdrawn directly in the ATB bar, instead of when they are actually struck on the battlefield. I keep finding myself looking at the bar to get the results quickly instead of at the battlefield. If this would change I would appreciate it much.

ST_Ghost
05-12-2006, 06:09 AM
Err what are you talking about? The numbers are subtracted after you hit them in the ATB bar. What version are you playing?

ZartaxTW
05-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Well, since I'm as curious as the cat that got killed I've got version 1.00.

jyc2006
05-13-2006, 03:21 PM
LOL. Well, Zartax, what did you expect from a buggy pirated version?

I'd wait until next week when the official release comes out. A pirated version won't let you play online, which is where most of the action is anyway. Plus, you won't qualify for help from the official tech support staff.

If those reasons aren't persuasive, also consider the moral implications... the developers have really made sincere efforts to listen to the fans. They visit and read the posts around here occasionally, and have spent a LOT of time polishing things and incorporating ideas suggested by the fans. So after all that hard work, don't they deserve a little respect? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't think anyone can answer why the bugs in the pirated version create the problem you mentioned. Personally, I think playing a buggy version of a game really kills the gaming experience. It's like watching the CAM version of an acclaimed movie, and being disappointed at the blurry video and awful audio.

vordhosbn1234
05-13-2006, 06:29 PM
Well i noticed the same bug, and i definetly don't think the official release will be different from this "buggy pirated version". It is not some major issue, but still it annoys a little bit.

ZartaxTW
05-14-2006, 05:02 AM
Well, I for one like to evaluate a game before I buy it unless I'm absolutely sure it's really, really good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, I don't believe this is due to the game being pirated. Those bug are usually BSOD, random CTD:s and hangs, not wacky gameplay errors like this. I've also noticed that sometimes the numbers in the ATB-bar isn't substracted at all during the whole fight.

jyc2006
05-14-2006, 05:55 AM
I understand where you're coming from. When I was younger, I would prefer to borrow a game from my friends first. If I really liked it, I would go out and buy a copy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It's too bad that the rental market for PC games isn't as widespread or convenient as the rental market for DVDs and console games.

Many stores also have very strict return policies... in the past, I've bought games which I couldn't run on my computer (even though the specs on the box matched up), because of copy protection reasons or graphics card errors which weren't mentioned on the game's box. When I tried to return them - surprise surprise, I couldn't. I either sold those games to my friends, at a discount, or held onto them until I got a different computer.

I guess we'll see if this bug is present in the official release.

ZartaxTW
05-14-2006, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jyc2006:
I guess we'll see if this bug is present in the official release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope it isn't so there is another argument to buy the game instead of downloading it.

Oh, and please get back to me (via this thread, of course) and inform me of how it is in the retail.

jyc2006
05-14-2006, 06:25 AM
Zartax,

I'll be on vacation until June 5th. Perhaps someone who buys the retail version sooner could be so kind as to post their impressions of the game before then?

A lot of us would appreciate it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
05-14-2006, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZartaxTW:
Well, I for one like to evaluate a game before I buy it unless I'm absolutely sure it's really, really good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence, a Demo was released.

C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s
05-14-2006, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ZartaxTW:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jyc2006:
I guess we'll see if this bug is present in the official release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope it isn't so there is another argument to buy the game instead of downloading it.

Oh, and please get back to me (via this thread, of course) and inform me of how it is in the retail. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The NON-STOLEN version will also connect on-line to Ubisoft and update the game with a patch. This will fix numerous small glitches. Your stolen version WON'T. Well, I kinda HOPE it does, and then they've got your info for forwarding to the authorities.

But if you want an argument for buying the game instead of downloading it, here's one. HONESTY. Sheesh!

ZartaxTW
05-14-2006, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by C_h_u_c_k_l_e_s:
Hence, a Demo was released. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If people were to make a decision on buying the game based on the demo rather than the pirated version Nival will loose many customers, trust me. I, for one, am not stuck in the moral 50's of black & white and actually believe that a genuinly good and thought throu game will benefit from piracy. In these times of bad game spamming one seldom dares to buy a game (atleast that applies to me) before doing extencive research. Pirated games are the perfect source to evaluate a game and give a fair picture of what to expect. If I find a game good I buy it, otherwise I just delete it. It's like testdrivning a car before buying it.

Anyway, I'm not here to debate the pro's and con's of piracy. I'm here since I want information on if this is a piracy bug (probably not) and if not, if it'll be fixed in a patch. These kind of obvious bugs don't say to me "This is a quality product!". If they didn't even fix a bug as easy to notice as this, how many other hard to find-bugs mustn't there be? That's why I hope this bug is related to piracy so I can order the game knowing it is relatively bug free and thus not a waste of my money (which, unlike others, I don't have an unlimited supply of).

PurplePaladin
05-15-2006, 12:03 AM
I can NOT beleive you are actually on here *****ing about something you stole. "

Boo-hoo-hoo, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif my pirated version does not work just right."

Obviously, you pirated you morals and ethics too, because they have MAJOR bugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

ZartaxTW
05-15-2006, 01:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PurplePaladin:
I can NOT beleive you are actually on here *****ing about something you stole. "

Boo-hoo-hoo, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif my pirated version does not work just right."

Obviously, you pirated you morals and ethics too, because they have MAJOR bugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol! You are funny! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

vordhosbn1234
05-15-2006, 04:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PurplePaladin:
I can NOT beleive you are actually on here *****ing about something you stole. "

Boo-hoo-hoo, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif my pirated version does not work just right."

Obviously, you pirated you morals and ethics too, because they have MAJOR bugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you actualy believe that the official release of the game will be different from the pirated? The shipment of the game has already started - thats why it was pirated.

And by the way, imo Ubisoft don't lose so much money from piracy. A little offtopic. In Bulgaria a few days ago the authority made arrests of some torrent uploaders, and accused them for theft of intellectual property and piracy. The amount of damage, they will be sued for was around $ 20 000 000. Seriously, do you think that all, who has downloaded pirated copy of a game, a movie or an album would buy it otherwise? I think not. And in the newspapers there was the owner of the biggest cinema complexes in the capitol. He said smthn about how much money he had lost due to piracy, how his busyness was suffering and so on. Several days after that, i understood that he was building two new complexes. Wow loosing 20 000 000 and still that. So much about piracy. The only way someone can convince me byuing a game is by making it good. No moral scruples will prevent me from stealing it. And Heroes 5 has a big chance to convince me. Sorry for the theme gone so offtopic, but thats my point of view.

P.S.: Big respect to the gyus from Nival - great work.

jyc2006
05-15-2006, 05:06 AM
Quote: "Wow loosing 20 000 000 and still that. So much about piracy."

-In this individual case, the businessman may have not suffered at all from piracy, or may have had an economic cushion to fall back on even in the face of profit losses. This specific anecdote does not disprove the assertion that piracy harms many parties.

Quote: "The only way someone can convince me byuing a game is by making it good. No moral scruples will prevent me from stealing it."

-I fail to understand the logic behind this reasoning. If this is simply articulating your own personal beliefs, fine.

But the reality is that the BETTER a game is, the more likely that pirates will steal it. Also, the better a game is, the greater the frequency of pirated downloads, since there will be greater demand for it.

Thus, for those who aren't discouraged from piracy by 'moral scruples,' the better a game is, the more likely they will download it rather than paying for it.

We've all engaged in piracy at one point or another (such as copying VHS cassettes, downloading music, etc.). From a pragmatic perspective, I believe piracy can only be reduced if laws are in place to enforce sanctions, and companies make it more convenient to obtain and run legal copies.

jyc2006
05-15-2006, 05:18 AM
To clarify, the actual quality of a game has no causal relationship to the legality of the behavior. (i.e. whether people choose to pirate or purchase)

Pirates are significantly predisposed to piracy anyways; absent some feeling of loyalty or respect to the developer/artist/producer, or absent legal consequences, they will still engage in illegal activity.

If a game is so great that it instills feelings of respect, then that may be the case. But I highly doubt that most people who pirate games would develop those feelings, without some sort of connection to the developers (via forums, personal contact, or otherwise).

vordhosbn1234
05-15-2006, 07:04 AM
Maybe but you are missing the point, that MOST people who download games instead of buying it would not buy the game in the first place. As i think, some of my friends (who don't buy games) will never spend their monthly money for a computer game.

In another thread someone compared piracy to stealing. It is a theft, but theft of intelectual property, which is completly different from material stealing. If you are poor and steal a car (which you could not buy), this does not excuse you. But if you steal a copy of an album or a movie or a computer game (which otherwise you wont buy), it IS differnt. I don't steal a game from the shaft. When i download, i don't steal the cd's or the manual included. Niether the package. I steal the game inside.
"Developing personal feelings about the developers" - well when i play Starcraft, Warcraft and Diablo, for example, i do respect Blizzard for making such fascinating games. That is logical.
And finaly i didn't say that piracy is not harmfull. I said that the damage that piracy cause is very overestimated.

Please let's discuss the beautifull game and as said in monthy python's "The Holy Grail":
"Let's not argue about who killed who." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

edit: There is not a one thread, when someone who admited that he plays on the pirate version hasn't been attacked by some other guy. As result here instead of talking about the game we say the same things over and over again. "East European &lt;&gt; West European...", "Stealing!!", "Contribute to such games...", and so on. I registered two days ago and already i feel sick of this piracy discusson. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

jyc2006
05-15-2006, 07:33 AM
Quote: "Maybe but you are missing the point, that MOST people who download games instead of buying it would not buy the game in the first place."

Sigh... that is my point EXACTLY.

Also, while you can try to distinguish physical theft from theft of intellectual property (which is an artificial distinction, as information occupies physical space, and is a magnetic impression), I think you would be upset if you wrote a paper, and someone hacked your computer, downloaded it and used it without your permission. You would be even more upset if they profited financially from it, as many pirates do.

I didn't understand what you were getting at with your businessman anecdote. If you mentioned it for the proposition that the harms of piracy are overexaggerated, an individual anecdote still does not prove that proposition. So many parties are situated much more differently than the businessman. That's why anecdotes are generally not useful... they rely on numerous, very broad assumptions.

Furthermore, although many gamers may respect the quality of the games themselves, that by no means ensures that they will purchase new games released by those developers. I mentioned that point for the assertion that those who have some degree of moral conscience are far less likely to pirate a game once they have developed some loyalty to the series or developer. But for those who don't have any problem with theft, be it physical or intellectual property, that will HARDLY matter.

Lastly, somehow it is wrong to 'attack' those who have pirated copies of the game on an official forum? Morality comes into play when we criticize the act of piracy, but doesn't come into play for piracy itself? That's quite a strange idea. By characterizing the discussion about piracy as 'attacks' and redundant pandering, you are overlooking much of the valuable discussion and points raised.

If you feel the discussion is of little value and are "sick" of it, why weigh in with your opinion and have the last word? It's unfair to claim that you're "sick" of the discussion and to imply that it should be ended when you yourself wish to comment.

ZartaxTW
05-15-2006, 10:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jyc2006:
I mentioned that point for the assertion that those who have some degree of moral conscience are far less likely to pirate a game once they have developed some loyalty to the series or developer. But for those who don't have any problem with theft, be it physical or intellectual property, that will HARDLY matter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You talk about physical and intellectual property as they are the same. They might be by law, but in the real world they are not. There are a very distinct difference. The ability to copy intellectual property without cost.

If I steal a bike, the owner can no longer use it, sell it or whatever he wish to do to it. If I copy a game the owner can still use it, sell it etc. He can do everything he could before the act. That is why you cannot compare stealing to piracy of software.

My point is, if you copy a game it doesn't mean you are likely to steal a bike.

jyc2006
05-15-2006, 12:09 PM
Quote: "You talk about physical and intellectual property as they are the same. They might be by law, but in the real world they are not. There are a very distinct difference. The ability to copy intellectual property without cost."

Well, of course there are distinct differences between physical and intellectual property. What is important is whether those differences warrant less legal protection of intellectual property than physical.

I also agree with your statement that if you pirate a game, that does not mean you are likely to steal a bike. I use the term 'pirate,' since copying your own games for backups would not violate any legal or moral obligations. Illegal copying = piracy. You can dispute that definition if you like, but playing with semantics would distract from more important issues in the conversation at hand.

There are many reasons why people who pirate games are not necessarily predisposed to stealing physical property. Here are some of the ones I can think of:

1. Stealing physical property (PP) may require more effort than finding and downloading intellectual property.

2. Stealing PP runs a greater risk of detection, and therefore punishment, because it is easier to witness and track physical theft than online theft. If ISPs were not so protective of the records of their clients, then things could change. I support the position which ISPs have taken... there's too much room for abuse if records have no privacy protections.

3. More severe penalties are imposed for stealing PP than intellectual property.

4. Theft of PP is widely condemned by most cultures, whereas the relative 'newness' (novelty) of the Internet has not given the world enough time to develop commonly-held standards of conduct and ethics.

5. The act of online piracy itself is very remote... you are very far removed from the 'victim,' whereas in PP theft cases, individuals often are aware of who the victim is. Since all human beings possess some degree of morals, the remoteness of the 'victim' lowers the moral threshhold of the act itself.

6. The belief is that theft of intellectual property does not actually limit the use or enjoyment of the victim's use of that property, so less moral implications are present. "No harm, no foul."

I understood your post as raising the 6th issue. If that is the case, let me ask you some questions:

(A) If I stole just a small amount of money from Bill Gates, who has TONS of money, would that present moral problems, since his use and enjoyment of the money would hardly be impacted?

(B) If the above act would be immoral, how do you justify treating the loss of profits that developers sustain due to privacy protection as no actual harm? Game distributors may choose to raise the prices of the games to compensate for their losses... is this another actual harm that piracy creates?

(C) If stealing just a little of Bill Gates' money is not immoral, then where do you draw the line to what amount or impact is necessary before theft poses moral problems?

&gt;&gt;&gt;

As you can tell, I'm really enjoying this discussion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I guess that's not surprising, since lawyers love to talk :P

P.S. - The law doesn't really treat the theft of physical property and intellectual property as the same. One of the main differences is that intellectual property has a "fair use" consideration. Just FYI. Good lawyers have often been able to win borderline copyright protection cases with the doctrine.

vordhosbn1234
05-15-2006, 12:37 PM
@jyc2006 I should have known you are a lawyer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
About your questions:
I will definately steal money from Mr. Gates! But seriously now. You stated that theft of PP and IP is not the same in the law. Well i don't know how it is in your country, but let me say something about Bulgaria. For murder by imprudence(not sure for the word) the law gives up to 3 years jail. And for theft of IP up to 3 years jail and fine up to 5000 EU. Well, is that fair? Is that just?

jyc2006
05-15-2006, 12:50 PM
LOL VORD... I'll become a lawyer "officially" next year http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't know if that's a good thing... do we really need more lawyers :P

I would also steal the money from Bill Gates, but I refer to it as 'providing legal services.' LOL

Seriously, the criminal punishments you mentioned are not fair. And I doubt that they actually work to deter the activities which they target, since most people would rather not report others due to the severe consequences.

I cast my vote for the VORD reform party http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

vordhosbn1234
05-15-2006, 02:35 PM
Well the Law for Computer Crimes was accepted few months ago and obviously it needs change. I mean if you accidently kill somebody it can't be equal with any kind of theft. Lets assume you are a pro pirate. Even if they find you, track you down, arrest you, the breaking point will be when they sue you. With good lawyers you can easly win and sue the country for improper arrest or perquisition. Soon this law will not be apllyed in BG. Unless changed of course.

edit: and it is vordhosbn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ZartaxTW
05-15-2006, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jyc2006:
I understood your post as raising the 6th issue. If that is the case, let me ask you some questions:

(A) If I stole just a small amount of money from Bill Gates, who has TONS of money, would that present moral problems, since his use and enjoyment of the money would hardly be impacted?

(B) If the above act would be immoral, how do you justify treating the loss of profits that developers sustain due to privacy protection as no actual harm? Game distributors may choose to raise the prices of the games to compensate for their losses... is this another actual harm that piracy creates?

(C) If stealing just a little of Bill Gates' money is not immoral, then where do you draw the line to what amount or impact is necessary before theft poses moral problems?

&gt;&gt;&gt;

As you can tell, I'm really enjoying this discussion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I guess that's not surprising, since lawyers love to talk :P

P.S. - The law doesn't really treat the theft of physical property and intellectual property as the same. One of the main differences is that intellectual property has a "fair use" consideration. Just FYI. Good lawyers have often been able to win borderline copyright protection cases with the doctrine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

(A) I probably wouldn't steal money. Even if he has a lot, I still remove it from his posession unableing him to use it. If I found a bag of money with no name on it on the other hand, I would wait and see how things turn out before I act. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(B) First you must determine wether there is a loss of profit. Developers are not forced by any means to have a CPS (copy protection software). Games without CPS have done just as well in sales as games with CPS.

Profit losses could come from reduced sales since people have the ability to download it instead of buying it. This somewhat applies to me. I often download a game in an evaluation purpose. If the game is bad (imo) I don't buy it and the developer could argue that they have lost profit. On the other hand, I seldom buy games before trying them (or doing other research) so there is no real loss. Also, sometimes you notice games that you'd never see otherwise, and actually go and buy them. In this case the developer gain profit. For me, it's my "profit" (not spending money on a worthless product) vs their "profit" (wasting my money) and I'd take my profit over theirs any day.

Now, you might argue that piracy in general is a loss for developers, but do I really need to feel responsible for that? My responsibilty is to my own actions, and the reasons others do the same act shouldn't affect my "moral status" by downloading a game now and then.

But, to keep the discussion alive, I don't think piracy does generate losses for game developers. I believe that the loss and gain somewhat cancels eachother and that the net is about the same, give or take.

(C) N/A due to (A).

vordhosbn1234
05-15-2006, 07:12 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

jyc2006
05-15-2006, 11:26 PM
In response to Vord (short for vordhosbn):

Quote: "I mean if you accidently kill somebody it can't be equal with any kind of theft. Lets assume you are a pro pirate. Even if they find you, track you down, arrest you, the breaking point will be when they sue you. With good lawyers you can easly win and sue the country for improper arrest or perquisition. Soon this law will not be apllyed in BG. Unless changed of course."

Ok, I wasn't sure what 'murder by imprudence' was. In the US, causing the death of someone through a negligent act (as you mentioned) is called manslaughter or negligent homicide. I'm not sure what other English-law based jurisdictions call it, but it should be the same. Just some irrelevant legal information http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Back to the topic - yes, it appears that the computer crimes law will eventually not be applied in Bulgaria since judges and juries would likely feel the penalties are too harsh. That happens occasionally in America.

Quick note: Even though a law may be overly harsh, that is a separate issue from the morality of piracy itself. Just as punishing the single act of rape with death would be unfair, the act of rape itself is still immoral and unethical.

It was unclear if you were asserting the opposite, or just raising a related point about the enforcement of anti-piracy law and the differences worldwide.

jyc2006
05-16-2006, 12:02 AM
In response to Zartax: It appears that the dispute about whether theft of intellectual property is really theft at all comes down to whether you believe actual harm exists.

I actually took your position, as did many of my law school colleagues, before a series of heated and eloquent discussions in our Criminal Law class caused most of us to change our minds. The most significant thing for me was actually seeing statistics (in our casebooks) of the losses which the recording industry has suffered, even if the industry is bloated and charges ridiculous amounts for CDs to maximize their profits. But that's hardly surprising or unethical business behavior. Indeed, they have legal duties to their shareholders to maximize profits.

We could argue back and forth whether the loss and gain cancel each other out, or that developers and other owners of intellectual property suffer net losses instead, but I don't have any available concrete evidence to support my position (the latter). I have read quarterly financial statements from the various recording industry companies, which have suffered significantly from music piracy. But I don't have any evidence on hand at the moment which extends that same conclusion to the gaming industry.

If you have some evidence to the contrary (which aren't anecdotes), please provide it, as it would be helpful.

QUOTE (ZARTAX): "For me, it's my "profit" (not spending money on a worthless product) vs their "profit" (wasting my money) and I'd take my profit over theirs any day.

Now, you might argue that piracy in general is a loss for developers, but do I really need to feel responsible for that? My responsibilty is to my own actions, and the reasons others do the same act shouldn't affect my "moral status" by downloading a game now and then." END QUOTE

This reaffirms my assertion, in this thread and others, that people who engage in piracy simply are putting their own self-interest ahead of others. That is not surprising, since it is human nature to do so. Also, while you may focus on collective action, and how an individual is not responsible for collective effects, that is artificial. Did the citizens of Nazi Germany have no individual responsibility for the Holocaust?

I know that's an extreme example; but my point is that individual actions add up to form a collective impact, and simply saying that you are responsible for your individual contribution to that impact is much different from saying that you are responsible for the contributions of others. That is an important distinction to keep in mind - you are still morally culpable for your own actions, which contribute to the loss of profits for the developers.

It is convenient us to believe or assume that no harms flow from our actions, to justify to ourselves that our behavior is not immoral, since we only play a small part. It is human nature to do so, because at the end of the day, we want to live with ourselves.

In the end, any self-justifications won't stand up in a court of law, no matter how unfair the law actually is.

Related Note: I understand where you're coming from when you wish to "try before you buy." I think if it was much more convenient to do so (even though demos are available for most games), it would benefit consumers greatly. The companies would not necessarily be benefitted, since poor games would sell even worse. Also, in this age of CD-copying, it's easy to buy/rent a game, burn it, and return it. That's why many stores have strict return policies for opened software.

Given these considerations, a demo serves its function of giving consumers a taste of the product itself. I ask you: what reason would someone have to buy the game when they already have downloaded the full version, and are playing it and really enjoying it? The only serious answer I can think of is that they wish to play multiplayer. But for those consumers who don't really intend to play online, the companies suffer a CLEAR dead loss.

In summary, I believe that it's more reasonable to assume that developers suffer losses from piracy, than assuming that piracy 'balances' its own costs out eventually. If you are honest with yourself that you'll put your own self-interest ahead of the developers and other consumers, I respect that honesty.

But I have not yet heard one persuasive argument as to why piracy is not immoral or is justified. Most arguments rest on the loose assertion that no harm occurs, and that has been disproven in regards to the recording industry, and will likely be disproven in regards to the gaming industry.

The best argument I can come up with for why piracy shouldn't be regulated is because regulation would unecessarily intrude into the privacy of individuals who are acting lawfully.

PurplePaladin
05-16-2006, 01:43 AM
My friend and fellow gamer, a Sherif for 27+ years (just retired) told me uncountable times: The reasons and excuses people he arrests for stealing use, are identical in virtually every way to what pirates say.

A practiced theif will try to convice you of anything; heck, he'll try to explain how it's YOUR fault he's boinking your wife WHILE your in the same bed at the time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Theifs are theifs, the only difference I have ever seen between them all is what particular excuse each one uses for stealing. . .

jyc2006
05-16-2006, 04:42 AM
I feel ya Purple,

If you hold up most of the excuses to the light of day, they quickly disintegrate. Only in darkness and anonymity do these these excuses retain form http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hope to see you online sometime!

vordhosbn1234
05-16-2006, 06:48 AM
1) Pyracy is immoral generaly.
2) Pyracy is NOT immoral for me personaly, if i don't feel guilty after commiting it (for example when i don't like the game and i uninstall it).
3) Because of 1) and 2) the society has the right to punish me for my crime against it.

Guys, thought a somewhat usefull and pleasent this disscussion was, it edns for ME. I don't want to put the final word. I am going right now to begin the necromancer campaign, and i do not intend to argue on this anymore. Have a nice chat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jyc2006
05-16-2006, 06:56 AM
Ok Vord, it's good to know where you stand. I've njoyed our discussion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Have fun with the game... and maybe buy it in the future, so you and I can play multiplayer together http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Swintar
05-16-2006, 11:02 AM
I actually have the same error in my new, vesion 1.00, non pirated Super Delux Edition of Homm V :3. So far it haven't tried auto updating either, and then I've registered it as well.

Sounds like there is a fix though... Guess I should check the main website then ^^.

jyc2006
05-16-2006, 11:17 AM
Cool, thanks for letting us know Swintar. Good luck with the fix http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Swintar
05-16-2006, 03:37 PM
You're welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Unfortunatley no patch seems to be out right now, but I'm sure they'll fix it eventually ^^. It is just a minor issue after all.

ZartaxTW
05-16-2006, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Swintar:
You're welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Unfortunatley no patch seems to be out right now, but I'm sure they'll fix it eventually ^^. It is just a minor issue after all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, that is what worries me. Such a minor, yet visible issue, and it's still there! How come this isn't fixed from the beginning? If this small issue that is so visible isn't fixed, what else isn't fixed!? Call me paranoid, but this bug gives me the creeps! I can just feel my hopes for a new heroes, hundreds of hours of nice gameplay going down the drain, all due to this little bug. It has planted a seed in my brain that won't stop growing, and hearing Swintar confirming that it is in the retail is just nurishment on that seed. I really hope I'm wrong about that feeling, so I can spend my beloved money and get the game for real.