Why did Sam Fisher become weedy?

[Jazz117Volkov]

Chaos Theory
He's not ridiculous, but there's a fair amount of beef on those bones, especially his shoulders. It's just part of being who he is, he's a big guy... well, maybe not particularly tall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv139/DODcrazy/samfisher4.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/splintercell/images/f/f9/Sam_Fisher_stealth_suit.jpg

Double Agent
I think he was even more built.

http://mktplassets.xbox.com/NR/rdonlyres/EDC8855E-FBEB-4CD4-90EF-6E3DE3B60A76/0/ILM_Splinter_Cell.jpg

and now... Conviction
aka weed man!
Seriously, what's up with the shrinkage?

http://scrawlfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/conviction-could-ps3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/kinster101/SCC.jpg

[Jazz117Volkov]

Chaos Theory
He's not ridiculous, but there's a fair amount of beef on those bones, especially his shoulders. It's just part of being who he is, he's a big guy... well, maybe not particularly tall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv139/DODcrazy/samfisher4.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/splintercell/images/f/f9/Sam_Fisher_stealth_suit.jpg

Double Agent
I think he was even more built.

http://mktplassets.xbox.com/NR/rdonlyres/EDC8855E-FBEB-4CD4-90EF-6E3DE3B60A76/0/ILM_Splinter_Cell.jpg

and now... Conviction
aka weed man!
Seriously, what's up with the shrinkage?

http://scrawlfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/conviction-could-ps3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/kinster101/SCC.jpg

[SolidSage]

Er age? Depression and absence from training and active duty?
Or maybe it's just that he's got baggy clothes on rather than the zexy skin tights. Which needs to make a return. Where's our wet suit gone?

[MergingPlatypus]

Because Matt Damon isnt built like that.

Sams definatly bigger in Double Agent. When you land the helicopter in Shanghai he folds his arms and its almost funny.

I honestly didnt notice how cracked out he looked until Mustache told him to "move his boney ***."

[Jazz117Volkov]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:

Depression and absence from training and active duty?
Or maybe it's just that he's got baggy clothes on rather than the zexy skin tights. Which needs to make a return. Where's our wet suit gone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> "Go and Google Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, and look at the images. You're going to see some images of Sam, he looks as if he could be in the same world as Batman. He's wearing that f##king wetsuit and he's super-built, and the rain and the goggles, and you look at him and you think he could be in the Batmobile with Batman. "
- Maxime Beland.
___________________________
Just remembered how much I want to puke when I read that.

[SolidSage]

Who's been talking shiz about Batman?! Other than the ears and cape, he's got Solid's sneaking suit on.
The new Batman is so good BECAUSE they made him more plausible, like a spec ops guy, rather than a foo foo on stage.

CT spy outfits were cool, and the spies better be jacked up in their line of work.

[Fraeulein]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:
Er age? Depression and absence from training and active duty?
Or maybe it's just that he's got baggy clothes on rather than the zexy skin tights. Which needs to make a return. Where's our wet suit gone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think it is the first part combined with the more relaxed attire.
Both.

[newhenpal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MergingPlatypus:
Because Matt Damon isnt built like that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[greyfox24]

While Conviction certainly wasn't one of my favorite games in the series (doesn't make the top 3) it had probably the best character.

The first three games, while great from a gameplay perspective, lacked character depth. Chaos Theory and Double Agent were low points, turning him to little more than a cut meathead (Mr. Super Commando). Sam Fisher circa Conviction was far more human.

[shobhit7777777]

I think they intentionally went for the leaner, agile physique. Besides have you seen his legs and forearms..they're massive. I think SC1 Sam had the best physique....and Conviction Sam was the closest. Chaos Theory and DA were far too bulky IMO.

As for Batman comparisons....puhleeez. Batman is way too cool for Sam. Sorry, I love Sam but the Bat is a demigod.

[Jazz117Volkov]

I'm marginally indifferent, but I wish they'd just make up their mind and stop changing what he looks like. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

But that said, personally I found it more believable for him to be a little more built.
Conviction Sam just seems a little weedy.

@ Shobhit:
One of the main problems with SC1 Sam is that he's not actually anatomically correct. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[shobhit7777777]

@Jazz

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> not actually anatomically correct </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You..you mean..that..that Sam is..is a..

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KEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ZOMG!!

[codenameeric]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
not actually anatomically correct.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How so? I never noticed that.

I think the best representation of Sam is the cover art for Splinter Cell 1. He's slimmer, which makes sense to me. Sam's missions call for agility over brute force.

[Punisher Cork]

Yeah, thank Jack Bauer and Jason Bourne, two weenies who couldn't take Sam Fisher on their best day. g4 tv had a review on Conviction, they said, "why is sam smaller than he used to be, he looks like Nathan Drakes older brother." and "we found ourselves not using mark and execute to add challenge to the game."

[Kanuch]

replay the game. in the first chapter, the part where he talks to Sarah, wears a t-shrt. those biceps are larger than his head.

[SolidSage]

Yeah, flashback Sam from SCC is the best Sam ever, followed closely by the CT image, knife behind back that Jazz posted earlier here.

Give the dude a break guys, he cracked 50 and lost some beef, the fact that he can still low walk, pipe climb and ledge shimmy, should be evidence enough of his physical aptitude.

Sheesh, look at all the grief he gets for doing a casual friday just once.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Yeah, flashback Sam is the correct build.
He doesn't have that cracked out look.

And about the anatomy in SAR.
If you look at Sam when he's moving around you'll notice how skinny his waist is. In fact, a lot of him is kinda lanky.
And his eyes are too small. Not sure how he can see really.
Not that it's as bigger deal, but his fingers a little stubby too.
But most of the problems lay in the thickness of his upper legs and lower torso.

[Real720]

Ironically, he's able to shimmy across ledges 3 times faster than he did in the previous games... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

[Fraeulein]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
Ironically, he's able to shimmy across ledges 3 times faster than he did in the previous games... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, yeah. 'cause he has lost some body mass.

[Real720]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fraeulein:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
Ironically, he's able to shimmy across ledges 3 times faster than he did in the previous games... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, yeah. 'cause he has lost some body mass. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I knew that he lost body mass. It's still extremely absurd when you think about it.

[SolidSage]

No. What was absurd was how slow he shimmied in earlier iterations.

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:
No. What was absurd was how slow he shimmied in earlier iterations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, since I've just returned to the forums and half the quotes I've used have been your posts, but....

Have you ever shimmied a ledge at height?

[SolidSage]

Shadowfox,
You bit on that one didn't you, I thought you might.
In answer to your question, well as a matter of fact, I have. There's a topic around here not too old, where I specifically mentioned it.

I've shimmied along the gables of my house, just like in SCC, hand over hand, foot over foot, horizontally, and sloping vertically upward and downward for some distance, (more than 20'). Not just once, it's a physical exertion that I, (so plenty of others) can perform repeatedly, for well, about as long as I had to I suppose, over the course of a day. I can run for hours, I can work in a high physical capacity for 8 or more hours, daily, forever...I'd probably get slower and sloppier towards the end of the day, but I'm not an ex seal nsa 3e spy am I.
Speed wasn't hard to achieve. I done a lot of wall climbing actually, a bit of belaying and some of the other stuff. Full sized hand holds, like a meaty concrete ledge, coupled with good foot tractionable wall surfaces are a breeze.
Pipes like we see in SC games, big ones, just sticking out of the wall waiting for us to pop on are also an easy climb, unless the bolts holding them to the wall let go, that could lead to some fun.
I don't free climb above 20' or so but there are plenty, better than me that do.
Of course random structural variances would prevent a person from being able to do it as frequently and cleanly as in SCC. Indefinite hanging isn't doable either, but you know, it's not really real.
There are plenty of older climbers who can do much more than I am capable of. The hard climbing is where only the ends of your toes and your fingertips can find purchase.

Meaty handholds Shadowfox.

Have you seen American Ninja Warrior? I mean these are guys from varied walks of life, and they're doing those elements all in the course of one long day. Sure they're not shooting or stealthing around as well, but you know, half of that stuff is a stretch too...SuperManSam.

Sam might look weedier than before, or cracked out as Jazz puts it. I think he just looks older, there's a threshold that gets crossed with age, a point where you're no longer on the climb to the zenith, but after that, where your prime is behind you.
I observe it, you can see it happen sometimes. Not in a, la de da BAM, "you just got old kind" of way, but you can see it still.

[shobhit7777777]

@SolidSage

Wasn't there a video somewhere where it showed kids almost FLYING along the wall, exactly like Sam in SCC?

[Jazz117Volkov]

I distinctly remember there being a vid-doc where Beland said how they put tons of work into making Sam.
What his face looked like, how built he was. I recall they even went through a bunch of models but none of them really met every ones expectations so they went with a more artistic approach.

My question here is how come they arrived at such a grizzled and cracked out visage when there was already such a well established and accepted concept to work from. Which for the record was more fitting for a former SEAL.
The look we have atm is that of an undernourished athlete.
It's a little weird IMO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:

Meaty handholds Shadowfox. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like this?
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTcJohx32iWAcygLUEGBvT0GoTUY8Cqv UqP0E7Er-IOj-affOrv

[SolidSage]

@Shobhit
I haven't seen it but I KNOW I've done it at SCC relative speed, and I'm closing in on 40 fast and not an exceptional athlete.

@Jazz
Like that yes, but remember, except in the glory situations, it's ALWAYS 3 points of contact...so where are the other two? He he.

I don't think SCC sam is bad, he looks a little distinguished, like he aged fairly gracefully. What previous version are you referring to? DA Sam I hated, he got more Italian (nothing against em), but it seemed like his DNA changed. SAR, PT and CT Sam were good, he looked a bit taller in those games than SCC.
I don't agree about the "look more fitting a former SEAL" though, I've grilled on a beach in Rosy Rhodes with some fairly chunky ugly ones!

[Jazz117Volkov]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:

@Jazz
Like that yes, but remember, except in the glory situations, it's ALWAYS 3 points of contact...so where are the other two? He he. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> don't need to tell me brother. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
But as for the guy in the image... well, as with most people nowadays, the source of the problem is a lack of education.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What previous version are you referring to? DA Sam I hated, he got more Italian (nothing against em), but it seemed like his DNA changed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ubi Shanghai did a pretty poor job of interpreting his look into 3D.
The ingame model from both versions of Double Agent was horrible.

I'm referring to the 3D models used in the Chaos Theory and 6th gen Double Agent cut-scenes (they're different, but still recognizable as the same guy.) And from the Chaos Theory promotional artwork.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't agree about the "look more fitting a former SEAL" though, I've grilled on a beach in Rosy Rhodes with some fairly chunky ugly ones! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Just mean body mass.
I haven't seen too many SEALs, but from what I can gather, they're usually pretty big guys. Sam from Conviction is not a very big guy. As the thread titles implies, he looks weedy. Especially his upper arms, they're tiny for a guy of his caliber.

[SolidSage]

@Jazz
Yep, the SEAL's I've been around were all thick, the older one or two were not so defined but carried plenty of 'insulation'. Not fat, but, well, meaty.
Can't seem to escape that word now.

[shobhit7777777]

@Jazz @SolidSage

I've met some SF (Army ParaCdo...they are equivalent to your Rangers, Army SF and Delta..rolled into one but more heavy on the sharp end) guys and all of them were the lanky, reedy, marathon runner types. They were not defined or bulging with muscles....but were pretty strong and athletic. Then again, the pics you see of most US SF are pretty built....I guess they focus more on strength training. Nonetheless..I preferred Lanky Sam to Beefy Sam. SCCT Sam was fine but SCDA Sam was FAT! SCC Sam was IMO apt.

[sameer_monier]

Actually as many other have said, he become like this due to many reasons, Age, Depression, Being away from the field for 3 years, He kept himself in shape as much as he could, but it is different from back in the days where he was always in missions

Also DA Sam looks kinda wrong, I didn't bother actually, but he seems to be bulky, and that maybe due to being in prison he focused on training himself like that so he can remain out of trouble

Don't get me wrong, I like the whole muscle thing in CT, I wish we see the same details in SC6

[Jamsedreng22]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SolidSage:
No. What was absurd was how slow he shimmied in earlier iterations. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, since I've just returned to the forums and half the quotes I've used have been your posts, but....

Have you ever shimmied a ledge at height? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have. I once lived in an apartment. There was a pipe with electrical cords going across one roof to another, which lead to my open balcony window. I had lost my keys so I actually climbed the drainpipe at a fair enough speed and then onto a balcony, then checking if the pipe could support my weight which it appearently was able to. I then used my arm strength to raise my legs onto it and moved my *** across a 3 story fall. It's simple. Cross your feet above the pipe and drag yourself along.

[eoj19]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kanuch:
replay the game. in the first chapter, the part where he talks to Sarah, wears a t-shrt. those biceps are larger than his head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

That's hilarious but true lol


But on a serious note, I agree w/ SolidSage:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Er age? Depression and absence from training and active duty? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Tim_Noonan]

Of all the things that were wrong with Conviction, Sam Fisher's build wasn't one of them.

[Jazz117Volkov]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tim_Noonan:
Of all the things that were wrong with Conviction, Sam Fisher's build wasn't one of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No one's talking about right and wrong here bud. It's just a drastic change. Seems the new direction favored a more JB esque physique, and less of a built former SEAL.

[Tim_Noonan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jazz_117:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tim_Noonan:
Of all the things that were wrong with Conviction, Sam Fisher's build wasn't one of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No one's talking about right and wrong here bud. It's just a drastic change. Seems the new direction favored a more JB esque physique, and less of a built former SEAL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We weren't going to have a buff Sam either way.

[Jazz117Volkov]

Sam Fisher was once a Navy SEAL. And he was a lot more muscular in previous iterations.
Learn your history man!

[Tim_Noonan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jazz_117:
Sam Fisher was once a Navy SEAL. And he was a lot more muscular in previous iterations.
Learn your history man! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think you misunderstood me. I said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tim_Noonan:
We weren't going to have a buff Sam either way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Meaning that even if Ubisoft hadn't changed direction and gone with the 2007 build of ConViction we still wouldn't have a muscular Sam. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[Jazz117Volkov]

Who's talking about SCC07? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

[Tim_Noonan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jazz_117:
Who's talking about SCC07? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought that you made a reference to it...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jazz_117:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tim_Noonan:
Of all the things that were wrong with Conviction, Sam Fisher's build wasn't one of them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No one's talking about right and wrong here bud. It's just a drastic change. Seems the new direction favored a more JB esque physique, and less of a built former SEAL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But I guess not.

[Jazz117Volkov]

You guessed right.

[JPL90]

sam fisher est musclé http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

[shobhit7777777]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sam fisher est musclé </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
le Troll???????????????

[Soulid_Snake]

Well Sammy boy isn't like Soulid Snake who magically went from 5'10 - 6ft at the tender age of 26.

Mind you aren't spies supposed to be average sized to sneak into the tiniest of places?

[Jazz117Volkov]

@ Soulid Snake:
Well, I don't think it's height that's really the problem. It's just his overall body size, like muscle mass, that has shrunk. I find it a little weird. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Actually, I recall that his height was supposed to be 6 ft in SAR and PT, but was dropped to 5'10 in Chaos Theory... but perhaps I'm mistaken. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

[codenameeric]

I actually preferred Sam's physique on the box art for SC1. He was lean and fit, which makes more sense to me for someone stealthy.