Food for Thought [Archive]

Arisia

12-08-2003, 06:56 PM

Before I begin, let me clarify a few things.
I bought URU for the game, not for the online gaming feature. I have never been a fan of online gaming because I prefer solo journeys to group efforts.
With that said, let me offer food for thought.
After finishing URU offline, I would stare at the bookcase in Relto thinking, "So many empty slots, so many linking books to be found." I would sigh and exit the game. I began rethinking my stand about online gaming after reading about the additional Ages that would be available in URU Live. My anticipation to go online grew until I was ready, bags packed, for my first trip into the D'ni city. I virtually marched out onto the information highway to the boarding gate of URULIVE.COM, only to be disappointed when I was denied entry. I thought, "No problem, they're not ready...I can wait." After a few days, I began browsing the forums for any information about URU live. I waded through all of the complaints of people waiting to get into the Prologue where there is nothing to do. Explanations as to why it's taking so long, but mostly verbal attacks on the concerns of your potential customers from your moderators. [I think someone upstairs needs to moderate your moderators.] Make-believe reasons why we are still in Prologue stage from the DRC. Multiple excuses why the impatient visitors will have to wait until Cyan has fixed the bugs and widened the servers to handle the onslaught of eager Myst-ians clamoring to get in.
I sat back into my chair and pondered all of what I had read and began sifting out the irrelevant and analyzing the facts. All of which led me to question a probable outcome. What if, when URU goes gold, Cyan throws open the doors to welcome everyone to the online world of D'ni only to realize that no one is there?
In a world of mass electronic entertainment and where everything is available 'on the fly.' Our attention span is extremely short and our patience is almost nonexistence. As a general observation, we do not like to wait. I wonder if the commanders-in-chief at Cyan have considered the ramifications of delay in an industry where a competitor will not hesitate to replace URU with a title of their own or the irate consumer will abandon URU in favor of another popular online game. In effect, causing Cyan to miss the opportunity of the income that could have been generated online. In case you haven't noticed, there is no short supply of alternate online games and they will only continue to multiply.
I myself have enjoyed playing URU, and started off feeling excited about exploring online. I care nothing about the prologue and even now, I can still wait for the full version...but not forever. I now find myself losing interest in when URU Live goes gold and will place the game back in it's holder and up on the shelf with Myst, Riven, and Exile. Soon, URU will be forgotten and I will move on to the next game that will gain my attention.
Poor Cyan, poor DRC, poor moderators...for they all suffered some brief lunacy that their gamers would actually wait indefinitely.

Arisia

12-08-2003, 06:56 PM

mystmum

12-08-2003, 07:01 PM

*standing ovation*

Well said.

__________________________________________________ _________
Every day above ground is another day waiting. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Srikandi

12-08-2003, 07:06 PM

If that happens, it'll be too bad. But I don't see why it would. When Uru live is ready, there will be people who want to play it.

Personally, I feel there are very few really interesting games released each year, and I'm always ready when one comes out. More than a year ago I noticed the sequel to Gothic, Gothic II, was due to be released very shortly. I got interested, and started following it in the forums. It was delayed a couple of months, but was finally released -- in Germany. The company went through a series of different publishers and distributors. The American release was delayed and delayed again. Eventually I "lost interest", stopped reading the forums, and got involved in other games.

But when I noticed that it had finally come out here a couple of months ago, I jumped on it -- a YEAR after its European release, a year after I'd thought I would be able to play it. None of the reasons I had for wanting to play it in the first place had changed, so why wouldn't I?

If your gaming time or budget are very restricted and you can only play one or two games a year, I understand that you have to choose carefully. My gaming time is not unlimited, but there are so few worthwhile games that I don't care when they come out -- I'll happily play them whenever. And if there are two at once, I'll play them serially or simultaneously.

kbennett53

12-08-2003, 07:12 PM

I read your post through several times. It is very well written, thoughtful and you made your point clearly.
I have to disagree with you that people will not wait for Live to be open. I can only speak for myself of course but I am perfectly content to wait for I believe it will be more than worth it.
I have a life and many other things going on at this time of the year so in my case it's good that Live is not going full out. I would have to be dragged from my computer room, kicking and screaming.
I hope you change your mind so we might journey together sometime.

maztec

12-08-2003, 07:18 PM

Well put Arisia.

Not sure about the poor cyan, poor DRC, poor moderators... But oh well.

My personal opinion is that hopefully the delay does get rid of the people with short attention spans -- generally FPS gamers -- it will make for a much more pleasent in-cavern experience.

I've already heard -- when playing in-cavern and from complaints in-beta -- people essentially say online "WHY CAN'T I HAVE A GUN! I WANT TO KILL SOMETHING!" (ok that's a bad paraphrase, but it gets the point across) Isn't the gun in Teledahn enough?

Yes, you're right.. We as moderators have made some fairly negative comments in the past.

One thing you probably don't realize is that many of us who are moderators were not always moderators -- and many of our posts, even though they now bear the "moderator" title near our avatar, were not made as moderators but as other users.

Personally that always makes for trouble and confussion...

I know I have been a bit outspoken when it comes to explaining things to people -- as have several other moderators -- but it is really just as much of a knee-jerk reaction as peoples complaints. Our responses are because we've read the same negative thread rephrased a thousand different ways in hundreds of threads. When we lock a threa and point people to where it's being actively discussed with others they get upset. Yet, we do this with any topic, it just happens that the negative topics result in more negative topics when locked. . and even more if not locked and confronted.

What a horrible tumultuous web we've weaved ourselves.

We'll just have to wait and see how Uru Live goes over time.

But one thing you may want to remember -- if you're still signed up for it and you used a real EMail address. You'll probably get a notice saying when it goes gold. My bet is that people will come out of the woodworks who had previously sworn off Uru because they didn't care -- at least those who had really enjoyed it.

maz

Beancurd

12-08-2003, 07:18 PM

*standing ovation*

Well said.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I agree. I think most people that are excited about Uru Live will still play when it comes around. I've been waiting for it for quite a while, just from the knowledge that it was going to exist at some point. I'll gladly wait a while longer. I may move on to other games in the meantime, but I'll come back when Uru Live is ready.

There probably are some people who will lose interest and never play Uru Live. They're probably also the people who would play for a month or two before moving on, if it opened today. In other words, Cyan won't really be losing much because of it. I think most people that are potential long-term customers are going to play it when it's available, regardless of how long it takes.

A side note...How is Gothic 2, anyway?

ssmurphy

12-08-2003, 07:28 PM

Thank you for the post, very good and to the point.

I think that the loss of people has all ready started. The volume of post about getting in and why are we not letting more in has gone down in volume. I only seem to hear about stuff going on in URU:Live from a few people.

Hope they (CyanWorlds and UBI Soft) numbers of people in game when it goes live. If they can't get the numbers up it will not matter how may awards the game gets. If it makes no money it will be shut down and its servers used for the next MMO type game.

Later

wickedkae

12-08-2003, 07:30 PM

People will come back cuz they will get reminders by email. So there wont be a lack of players tryen out the free month. Who would pass it up? I mean yes, atm, its boring ( im in URU live and its ******ed) but when people get the reminder the customers will come back. Its after this that things will be funny.

Heres the truth about how this game will be played.

You will get your free month and blow through all the content with in a few weeks. before they bill you, you will cancel the account becuase there is no reason to pay for next months maybe 1 new age or so. Players will come back after a few months and blow through the next set of ages in a month and then cancel. Just keep repeating this and you got what this game will end up doing and ultimatly it will probably fail (as much as i dont want to say that)

You can argue "but i want to enjoy the story line". heres another truth. Chances are you will miss most of any event that takes place in real time due to real life and bad timing.

Or how about this one " i want to hang out with my friends". Im sure everyone has a messanger service thats free.....

The ONLY light of hope i can see for any replay value of the game is the fact that you can play capture the flag kind of games )which are impossible to create) and "find the orbs" that you hide for other players to find in the gae (also impossible to set up). these 2 features are lame, go ahead and argue that.

well i think ive gone off course now so im done http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

kpgdenver

12-08-2003, 07:56 PM

Nice post. I agree with most of what you said.

I've been avoiding expressing my feelings about the Prologue, because there has been so much overheated ballyhoo about the whole thing. I still don't think adding my $.02 about it will make any difference. But, I really do think the moderators (and some of the betas) have not handled the criticism very well, and have inflamed things, p'd people off.

As far as what will happen when Live goes Live, I think its anyone's guess. I imagine that most everyone who has signed up will use their free month, even if they never get into the prologue. Beyond that, I think the story is what will make people decide to stay or go.

I think Cyan's decision to call this the "prologue" means something - they are setting up the story. The conversations that have been posted with Phil Henderson, Marie, and Sharper are all about setting up what is going to happen in the future of Uru.

The really sad thing is that allowing this all to happen while most of us are on the outside is that it makes us feel like second-class citizens - "the least".

Sea.n

12-08-2003, 08:18 PM

Yes, well said indeed.
One thing of note. I believe that alot of the frustration from users stems from the fact that there is very little 'offical' information. There isn't even a server status page anywhere. I for one am of the group that is fine waiting, and I actually got my invite last Friday and didn't get a chance to try it until Sunday night. 3 hours later I still hadn't tried it, but not for lack of trying. The thing that was upsetting me to the point of saying 'forget this, I'm not having fun' was that I couldn't get an answer to why I couldn't get in or if my problem was happening to everyone. I checked the forum and checked but no updates. The last email in the News thread is from Friday telling us that a new group is entering, but all weekend people couldn't.
A little communication could go along way to calming the masses.

__________________________________________________ _
..remember its about the journey. stop and smell the fungi~~

Naquiel

12-08-2003, 08:52 PM

Ok im going to respond from a different point of view.

I have played many beta versions of many online games and i have seen what happens when ppl are waiting to get in and what happens to ppl that stay after the game launches. And it can get very grusome.

To start off, many ppl now really want to get in. They want to see what their missing. They really want to wowed and surprized. Wile the ones in beta are a little upset that their viewing a game with many bugs, crashes, and anyother bad thing you can think of. And this is during the first few stages of beta.

Now in the last stage of beta you will have the stress testing, where many ppl get let in to test to see how the servers can handle many different computers, data input and anyother things that make a connection stable(kinda where we are now in prologe, but with only a few ppl in the game atm). We still have ppl pineing to get in, and we have ppl in the game trying to sweet talk the devs to show us more befor we go completely bonkers.

But then the game launches (this is where the stinky stuff hits the fan, and there is alot of it). The game starts to have some serious problems. There is many ppl trying to get online and the servers freak from the pressure of so many ppl trying to sign into the game. Bugs start to pop up from all the different computer variables that didnt show up in beta. And from all this we will see 4 types of ppl that will come out of the aftermath.

1. The diehards. These are the ones that will stick with the game as long as its is avalible and no matter what condition the game is, they will stay.

2. The normal player. The normal player will get the game not expecting much. The play the game, try things and deside if they want to continue. You will get most of your players from here.

3. The ppl that feel cheated. Yes, some ppl that have waited for the longest time will jump in(if they get in)and play but find that what is there is not good enough and deside that it not what they expected. This might be from the bugs that sometimes plage launches, to the slow input of new content. These tend to be the ppl that think the game has to be 100% completed as a game most of the time, but we will not know. But we will still see ppl that will feel cheated.

4. The betrayed. This is mostly for the ppl that have been in beta(not all of them, just some that play beta games hoping for just a free preview). The ones who would help test that dont get to see much, they report bugs and when the game launches, they find that most of the bugs they reported still slip through to the finished game. They are irratated, they feel betrayed, and they leave saying they wont come back, but some do come back to see what has changed but in a small amount.

You will find that many players will be different when it comes to games. I have seen ppl leave on some things that they mostly didnt understand or that they felt that the devs didnt listen to them. Ppl place to much expectation on things when they wait to. They think they will see the grand prize when they get in, when most of the time they get cheesy third prize.

My thing is this, dont expect that the game will have everything you are expecting. Be understanding that there will be problems in the beginning. Dont be in a huff that you didnt get everything. And enjoy what you get knowing that you will get more later down the road. But if all fails, then you have the choice to stay or leave.

Support bactiria-its the only culture some people have.

Whitch2

12-08-2003, 09:09 PM

I think what many people fail to realize is that the Moderators are doing this voluntarily. We are not here to pick on any one person or group we are simply donating our time to try to keep the forums somewhat condensed and more user-friendly, as we were asked to do by Ubisoft.

When we all (the Mods) agreed to do this, it was made clear that we were doing so as forum members...the same as everyone else...with the same right to express our opinions as everyone else. What happens, though, is people see the 'Moderator' tag under our names and immediately come to the conclusion that we are Cyan/Ubisoft employees. That every opinion we express is that of Cyan and/or Ubisoft. This is just not so. The 'Moderators' have disagreed quite a bit (and quite vocally, I might add) with many things that are happening. That never gets pointed out, though. It's when we happen to agree with some point made by Cyan/Ubi , that always seems to get picked up on, then we are made out to be their puppets...their pawns - the 'Bad Guys'.

We are members of this forum, just as everyone else is. Sometimes we strongly agree, or disagree with points made. We express that. We have a right, as members of this forum, to do so. We will, in all probability, continue to do so. We are 'Moderated' quite strictly, as a matter of fact. We are very limited in what we can do, which is basically combine duplicate topics, and keep blatant troublemakers under control by reporting those who are abusive or offensive to other members to Administration.

As for updates, again it is important to realize that over the weekend, there is a much smaller staff working. I would expect it to continue this way until Uru goes Live. At that point, I would expect a full staff 24-7, and I will be just as vocal as anyone else if that isn't so, since I, too, will be paying for my right to access the game. As it stands, while we are in the free live beta (Prologue), if something does go wrong on the weekends, these folks working are trying to rectify the problem, not post to the forums. I accept that as part of the testing period - the freetesting period....note: MY OPINION here. CyanBill posted an update here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=1981034&m=32810091) - today, as soon as he had all the information gathered. I, for one, aprreciated that very much. I only wish more people did, too.

I hear speak of feeling like 'second-class citizens, or the 'Least'. Imagine what it feels like to be a Moderator...an Administrator...a Developer or a Designer for this undertaking. Having complaints, insults, abuse and even threats thrown at you 24/7. Imagine how that makes people feel. I'm not looking for pity here, we all knowingly accepted our positions...I'm asking for the same thing that we are being accused of not doing....seeing the other point of view. Maybe a bit more community spirit and support for the jobs everyone is trying to do and a bit less 'Me, me, me...I, I, I. It could go a long way in making the next month or two go a lot smoother.

It certainly couldn't hurt!

Kwartha

12-08-2003, 10:18 PM

Am I the only person who finds this thread more than a little frightening? I mean, I can understand why some of you are frustrated with Ubi and Cyan over the whole invite fiasco. And I can understand that you harbour a little ill-will towards those you see as responsible for it. But it sounds to me like some of you would be more than a little happy to see Uru Live fail as a product. In fact, you're arguing that it will fail, and yet somehow are not upset by that possibility.

Cyan Worlds is entirely committed to the idea of Uru Live. If Live fails, Cyan will no longer exist. This is the company that was started by Rand and Robyn Miller. The company that gave you Myst and Riven. They will be out of work, and there will never be another Myst game. Ever.

To me, that would be the worst possible outcome. Worse than anything that could ever happen to an individual user. Even if I never get to play the full version Uru Live, I will still believe in the vision Cyan has for the game, and want others to be able to experience its full potential. I want Cyan to live on to be able to produce dozens more titles. I want Rand Miller and everyone else who worked so hard to be rewarded for the excellent products they produced.

It deeply saddens me to think that someone could look at this situation and honestly wish that the utter failure and collapse of Cyan be the outcome. After the hundreds of negative, harsh, critical complaints I've read, Arisia's takes the cake. He, mystmum and their ilk, having declared the grapes to be sour, now wish that no one ever be able to taste them. It's honestly the most selfish, childish and depressing behviour I've ever witnessed.

I don't think I've been this sad since I started reading these forums. Congratulations, naysayers, you've won. My spirit is broken. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong anymore.

wickedkae

12-08-2003, 11:22 PM

its not that we WANT to see it fail, but i have to admot from TONS of MMO experience, the whole idea is kinda doomed.

It wouldnt be had the game been released with more ages and instead of taking an MMO approach to the game they should have just let people play for free over lan and net games. The they could have just released expansions packs for like $30 every few months or so. This is what i would rather have had.

I mean ANY of us could have been hosting our OWN neighborhoods by now with almost NO lag and we could ALL be playing at this moment having fun instead of losing interest in a great game.

Its not that hard to see that the whole structure for this game is unsound.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

maztec

12-08-2003, 11:43 PM

Sea.n you obviously skipped my post in THIS:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=1981034&m=33410971

thread..

-- ask wicked kae all about it if you want more info.

maztec

12-08-2003, 11:54 PM

wickedkae, you really think your computer is up to hosting this?

--- not to mention developing it for LAN play would have probably put it back another year *cough*

wickedkae

12-09-2003, 12:07 AM

1st off i dont mean to sound mean if i have come across like that sorry. Im just bringing up discussions man, so chill out.

anyway, Im not sure if you play other video games or have played in Uru live, but everything ive seen in uru could EASILY be hosted, if not on someones comp then on a dedicated server.

Heres my thinking, tell me if im wrong.

I dont think ive seen more than around 100 people on at once. Ok this amount CANT be hosted i will give you that.

All that i have seen so far in Uru, including the ages, they are small and these sizes could EASILY be handled by LAN or a dedicated server. If you dont think so go play a game like BF1942 where 64 people play on at once and the game world is HUGE and there are TONS of things going on. The ages in Uru are small compared to most other games that are online that are hosted by people, you cant argue that for 1 second.

In uru theres like what, chat, a button on a puzzle being pushed and some people walken around doing basically nothing. hehehe yes this game could easily be hosted.

Now granted the game would have had to have been developed differently from the start for this to possible. And the max players would have to be 64 or less, but thats ok becuase as the original poster pointed out alot of us enjoy the solo aspect anyway. I highly doubt you will ever see more than 10 people in age at once, so hosting games over LAN, etc would be viable and possible. Besides whats the point of having that many people in the same age anyway? seriously, there is no point. Maybe you and a few friends are runnen around, but your not going to want 100 people in THE SAME AGE, that would just suck and ruin you experience IMO.

once again im just having a discussion and not attacking or being so please dont think im haten. Just talken, ill be playen Uru with everyone else online. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

XyZspineZyX

12-09-2003, 12:33 AM

Kawartha, I agree with you.

Arisia, your attention span may be extremely short, but don't assume that you speak for everyone. The Myst games have never been compatible with those people of little patience. I choose to wait until Christmas before I play Uru Prime. I look forward to it, greatly. I look forward to joining Uru Live - sometime. I'm not going to lose any sleep worrying about when.

maztec

12-09-2003, 01:53 AM

wickedkae, I am chilled http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But you're fun to pick on.

Sure, if you go with those numbers this game could be easily hosted by a dedicated server. And yes, I've played on plenty of games developed that way. In fact this game could easily be handled on a system that isn't even a dedicated server since all the server has to do is keep track of where everyone is and what the current "state" of the realm is.

But, then you'd run into the problem with cheaters and the like since you'd have to store your data locally -- yes, there are games with centralized servers that store everyones data. But, that's just a whole different bag of pains in the...

But, just as a side note -- the other night I was in the city and there were 28 people in there (two less than the current max). And the max is always being increased. Since the city is going to be big enough -- I'll bet they'll eventually have way over 200 people in it (and hopefully over 1000) at a time -- or at least the possibility of it.

But skipping beyond all that. There is one thing I would miss with the LAN game or a bi-monthly CD update, that Live gives me. No, not the social interaction. But, the continuously evolving story that everyone and anyone can actively take part in. Sure, it's not much now -- but it holds a lot of promise.

wickedKae you're a playa Hata!

Fabadoom

12-09-2003, 02:46 AM

Naquiels "group 1" holds a lot of people who have been waiting since 1995 to play this game, another couple of months isn't going to hurt and far from being a minority I feel they may just be a *silent* majority.

I don't however feel that many people *want* Uru to fail, that's not the undertone I'm picking up (where's Jero with his latent psychic ability when you need him http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif )I think people are just a little p'd off, once the doors are opened this feeling will change.

In the middle of winter I often wish I could walk barefoot along a deserted golden beach. There's no-one else there, no one to talk to, nothing to do. I sit at work or at home watching T.V. and wish I could do the same in Uru, you know just walk around. if some else is there I'll say hello, if they want to talk I'll shoot the breeze. Myst, Riven, Exile are my escape from reality, from crappy soap operas, endless war reports, reality (duh) T.V. It doesn't matter how long it takes I'll be there and if the only other people there are likeminded then so be it. OK Cyan will go bust in a month but what a month I'll have.

Rose tinted spectacles may well be my middle name but I'm happy and that's good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fabadoom

A little nonsense now and then
Is relished by the wisest men

[This message was edited by Fabadoom on Tue December 09 2003 at 02:58 AM.]

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 03:08 AM

I would be very surprised if there was even a single person on this board who did not want URU Live to be a huge success. I think we can all agree that everyone wants just that. Why else would we be here?

Where we seem to disagree is how to make that come about (or even if it will come about) and whether or not the developers and promoters are doing their jobs as we think they should be done.

Cyan has a good track record of turning out high quality, technology pushing entertainment that appeals to a broad segment of consumers. Not just teenage male tech-savy gamers mind you -- but young men and women, moms and dads, grandparents and children. I think that's quite an accomplishment, and it's what I think will give them the edge they need with URU when they compete for consumers' attention and dollars. I think they can do it. I think many people now will wait for it and that others will be drawn to it and stay with it.

I find Cyan's work inspiring. I would venture to guess that many of you do to. They are weird. What I mean by that is that they are not normal. They don't like to be normal. And they don't like to do things like eveybody else does. Thank goodness for that! For the world would be a little bleaker if they did.

Cyan has a vision to take the world of Myst and turn it not just into a solar system, but an entire universe. Complete with live human interaction on a global scale. Can anyone say "Oh my!?" (Who raised these Cyan people?!? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Is it going to happen? It's happening.

Has it happenend exactly to plan. No.

Will we be blown away? I think we will.

Is it going to happen overnight, in a week, month or year? Yes. (It's going to keep happening.)

I don't think it's going to meet our expectations they way that we think it should. I think it's going to surprise us.

Cyan has put a lot of thought into this endeavour. I think they know what they're doing. I'm glad Ubisoft has taken on the challenge to help them pull it off. Cyan has a vision for URU that they want to share with us. It's going to take time and money to make it happen. It won't be perfect, but it will be better than anything they've done before.

We all have a role to play in it. Cyan and Ubi have their part. Others will be beta testers, forum moderators, and Prologue explorers (making D'ni safe for the general public). And the last group, the ones who have had to wait the longest, are going to be the one's who are the most suprised. They are going to feel the real magic of this. When they link to D'ni and find that D'ni is real.

Let's remember that all parties involved are human and prone to be imperfect. Imperfect words, actions and reactions are part of the deal. How about including some understanding, respect and discernment when reading the cold, lifeless words that appear on these forums without the benefit of body language and voice inflections that help us determine the motives for such posts? I love the suggestion made to "put ourselves in the other's shoes."*

You know what folks? I'm hungry. I'm hungry for good company, great puzzles, and fantastic environments with a dash of intrigue and Mystery. Well, the roast is in the oven, the beer is in the cooler and Srikandi said there were already people peeling potatoes and setting the table (or something to that effect).

As far as URU goes, do you want fast food from the drive thru or a full course meal with all the trimmings. And dessert. And an after dinner walk along the ferry harbour with our best buds where we'll discuss the next area for exploration. We'll all need to pitch in for the latter and it's gonna take a lot more time. Food for thought, indeed.

What are you hungry for?

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

*Actually it was, "...seeing the other point of view." But it still fits.

[This message was edited by Jibjustin on Tue December 09 2003 at 03:37 AM.]

Fabadoom

12-09-2003, 03:16 AM

Great post Jibjustin, I'll meet you at the harbour for a chat and a cigar.

Fabadoom

A little nonsense now and then
Is relished by the wisest men

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 03:17 AM

You're on!

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 11:40 AM

Arisia:

I have not meant to single you out with the reference to food thoughts. It would be very disheartening if once this feast gets served that no one shows up to celebrate.

I have faith in Cyan's goals and their ability to pull it off with Ubi's help. I have faith that it will appeal to a broad section of people and that they will be pulling a chair up to the table for a long time to come.

For those that need some instant gratification, there are many games out there (and coming on the market) that will satisfy those hunger pangs. But I would encourage you to keep an ear open for when Cyan decides to ring the dinner bell!

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

wickedkae

12-09-2003, 11:42 AM

dont hate the playa hate the game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (that works on so many levels)

id agree with you on the story line part maz if I knew how well it worked. since i have no experience with it i cant say that id miss it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. but if its like other MMOs i doubt you would miss it. Honestly unless were gonna see in game things like part of the city collapsing in real time or something dramatic like some dude coming in a ganking one of the docters, i doubt were gonna get anything less than some dude just talking to us. (i'd gladly give up interaction like that to be able to play with my friends for free any time)

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

[This message was edited by wickedkae on Tue December 09 2003 at 11:58 AM.]

wickedkae

12-09-2003, 11:44 AM

I want Uru to succeed very much so. However i just have a hard time seeing how it will, there are SOOOOOOOO many problems that they are facing and going to face.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

Beancurd

12-09-2003, 12:47 PM

I think with the existing online gaming community, it's not going to do extremely well. I think how Uru Live is going to succeed is by getting a whole new market of players who have wanted to play online but haven't found anything that fits their frame of mind. I have talked to a lot of people who have said this is exactly the kind of online game they've been waiting for. We'll see how Cyan pulls off the implementation, and see how it all really comes together. But, I think they have the potential of doing quite well, based purely on new online gamers. It won't be converts from Halo players or Planetside players or Everquest players or whatever, although some of them will surely play Uru as well.

mszv

12-09-2003, 01:06 PM

Hi,
I like all the alternate views, so keep posting please. I also like the other Myst series games and Uru, quite a lot. I not one of those people who is enamored of Cyan though. Maybe I'm too old, but I just can't do that sort of thing. I think they are an interesting company, and they do good products, but I like and admire other game companies too, like Revolution software. I've also got a real fondness for what Benoit Sokal (partnering with Microids) is doing with his Syberia series. I hope that Uru has a place for those of us who are fans, and who stick around and post and play, but who criticize and who aren't really "avid" fans. I do want the Uru to succeed, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to analyze the game and say both what I like and what I don't like.

So after all that, I think the idea of dedicated lan game is swell, another interesting approach. I don't think it would work for me though, since I would not have anyone to play with! There would have to be a place for those of us who didn't have game lan buddies to get together. Still, I know it's not going to happen, but it's an interesting concept. I also want to play with people around the world, don't know if that would be possible in the other scenario.

If I were to guess, I'd guess Cyan wants to keep it like this because they want to keep more control over the progress of the story, and the release of ages, and the game playing environment. I think it goes along with not releasing mod tools. Just a thought.

On Uru Live being ready later - I thought that when it was ready, there would be a flood of advertising to get people in the game, a real build up. I see how they can't do that now, as the live part is not ready. It's interesting that it's an open beta, in that we are allowed to talk about it.

On people waiting to play Uru - well, a lot of people played Myst (it was bundled with some PCs, you know), and some people played Riven. Exile brought in a whole new group of players. Whether they will plan an online game, particularly one that requires broadband, this remains to be seen. On the dedicated "avid" fan base, I think it's dedicated but not huge enough to support a multiplayer game. I thought the idea was to attract new players, people who had never played the other games (or played them through, from everything I've read, most people who bought the games never completed them). I really interested in seeing what happens. What I really want to see is if we finally get an online game for the "elusive casual gamer", as it was described to me - someone who plays intermittedly. I hope Uru is the one.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 01:18 PM

And on the staying power of URU/Myst:

There are certain "worlds" that have remained persistent in the minds of those that follow them, despite the fact that decades have passed since their last new addition. Tolkien's Middle Earth, Lewis' Narnia, Battlestar Galactica, etc. (Granted some probably rank higher in terms of literary status, etc.) Others have had the benefit of more continual renewal (Star Trek & Star Wars).

For some of these worlds years may go by before they are revisited or new tales created that further the timeline and richness of each reality. Some never do. They are frozen in time. Despite that, people do not forget them. They touch a part of us. And the magic that we experience with them stays with us.

People will not forget Myst/Riven/Exile/URU. For those it touches, it becomes a richer and deeper memory with every new addition that Cyan creates or has a part in. It's possible that in a few generations it may hold a place in people's hearts as dear as Middle Earth, Narnia, Wonderland, Oz, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc.

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

Pepsi1953

12-09-2003, 02:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Arisia:
Before I begin, let me clarify a few things.
I bought URU for the game, not for the online gaming feature. I have never been a fan of online gaming because I prefer solo journeys to group efforts.

With that said, let me offer food for thought.
In a world of mass electronic entertainment and where everything is available 'on the fly.' Our attention span is extremely short and our patience is almost nonexistence. As a general observation, we do not like to wait.
I myself have enjoyed playing URU, and started off feeling excited about exploring online.

I now find myself losing interest in when URU Live goes gold and will place the game back in it's holder and up on the shelf with Myst, Riven, and Exile. Soon, URU will be forgotten and I will move on to the next game that will gain my attention.

Poor Cyan, poor DRC, poor moderators...for they all suffered some brief lunacy that their gamers would actually wait indefinitely.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I for one am a gamer that would and will wait indefinately for Uru Live to become it's magnificent self. I have been enthralled with the Myst games from their beginning. I haven't played any of them (until getting into Uru beta) for many years but they still had/have my interest. Of all the games I play (not many online) and have played they have always stuck in my mind. Have always had my interest. Will always be there in the back of my mind swirling around, my mind mulling over each puzzle, each age again and again.

Uru will never be put on the shelf and forgotten by me anymore than Myst, Riven or Exile have. Why should it/they be. They were/are challenging games even after figuring out the puzzles first time through. There is always something new to see when going back into an age because there is no way to pick up all at one time. No way to take in every nuance because as you age you see things in a different light and pick up things you may not have at first.

Uru as are the Myst games are meant to be enjoyed by those who aren't restricted by short attention spans. Those who have patience and are able to "stick out" the puzzle solving and just plain wonderment at the artistry. This is the type of game I have wanted to see online for a very long time. I don't care to play the "shoot'em ups" or the violence based games. I want something to use my brain with (please don't be offended shoot'em up players, I don't mean to say you're brainless), something that my eyes can enjoy and that pulls me into the story. Uru does that. I believe there are more out there like me. Who want a "nice" game to play. Those that, like me, aren't all that co-ordinated (I do manage to do the jumps in Uru) or want to see all the violence in a game they are playing. Myst, Riven, Exile and Uru Prime have been the best game investments I've ever made. And I truly believe Uru Live will be too.

This is only my second foray into online gaming, unless you count playing scrabble. My other is There and it is a totally different kind of venue. I never thought I'd be an online game player it really didn't appeal to me either. But Uru opened my eyes. Uru can and will be a great online game. It will find it's niche and get the required amount of players I'm sure. Because "we" have been waiting for it.

~Pepsi~ http://pepsisplace.homestead.com/files/pepsismilie1.gif

In-game Name: Pepsi
KI ID: 00177669
Member of: Happy Shiny (4) Neighborhood

When you are imagining, you might as well imagine something worthwhile.

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 02:08 PM

I appreciate the critical analysis of URU that many are making. I tend to be more of a "rah, rah" kind of guy in my approach and can sometimes gloss over the troubles in my own mind while pointing out the wonder of it all.

I have also felt the need to be an encouraging voice if I can to, hopefully, spur those in the trenches on to get Live up and running so we can all get in.

I look forward to experiencing what many of you are when I get my first PC later this week (hopefully). I'm sure I'll still be a little "rah rah" but will also try to give some good feedback about it. I think it's good that we encourage Cyan and Ubi to maintain high standards in all that they do.

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

Kwartha

12-09-2003, 02:13 PM

Alright, I feel a little better now. Thanks for the thoughtful replies, everyone. It's tough to see the light at the end of the tunnel sometimes, but logging onto Live and meeting other players is enough to re-convince me that things are improving.
---
wickedkae: What exactly would you do with your friend in Uru at a LAN party??? I can't figure out why you would want this, especially if everyone's already played through all the published content. I honestly can't picture a bunch of people in the same room logging into a local server and having a chat in D'ni. Cone soccer isn't fun enough to justify setting up a dedicated server. Sorry, I just can't see that working.
---
As for other MMOG's, Asherons Call did an amazing job of plotline advancement. Much like Uru, the developers would assume the role of certain major characters, and would either help or battle the players. One month, the devs played a race of giants that tried to destroy every major city in the land. Players could either defend the cities, or watch as they crumbled. Other months, bizarre magical things would start happening to players. New items or components would appear, and everyone would race to figure out what they were useful for.

There was usually a bit of a lull during the summer, to allow new players to get oriented. But most months, there was a huge chunk of new content added. Turbine (the developers) never put out any expansion packs, because entire new islands were simply included in the monthly updates. It was amazing just to witness as a mid-level character, and it showed just how much work a good company can do for their customers.

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 02:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kawartha:
Alright, I feel a little better now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah!

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

wickedkae

12-09-2003, 04:43 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kawartha:
---
wickedkae: What exactly would you do with your friend in Uru at a LAN party??? I can't figure out why you would want this, especially if everyone's already played through all the published content. I honestly can't picture a bunch of people in the same room logging into a local server and having a chat in D'ni. Cone soccer isn't fun enough to justify setting up a dedicated server. Sorry, I just can't see that working.
---
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You missed my point. 1st off had the game been released with LAN abilities, DUH, none of us would have played the content and it would be new. Next, if they released downloadable expansions or something then there would always be new content for you and your friends to play over lan or tcp/ip or whatever.

So it would be a BLAST, not boring at all unless your not social.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 05:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by wickedkae:
...if they released downloadable expansions or something then there would always be new content for you and your friends to play over lan or tcp/ip or whatever.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This would have been a fun way to continue the Myst series after Exile, technology-wise. It would have allowed for multiplayer support and let people solve puzzles together, whether they were in the same room or thousands of miles away from each other. It may have been something they could have released sooner, but they've obviously had other plans.

I guess they are sort of leapfrogging this aspect of gameplay and have their sights set on a bigger more encompassing experience.

Your right wickedkae, now there is a lot more that can go wrong. But also a lot more to go right.

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

mystmum

12-09-2003, 05:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kawartha:
It deeply saddens me to think that someone could look at this situation and honestly wish that the utter failure and collapse of Cyan be the outcome. After the hundreds of negative, harsh, critical complaints I've read, Arisia's takes the cake. He, mystmum and their ilk, having declared the grapes to be sour, now wish that no one ever be able to taste them. It's honestly the most selfish, childish and depressing behviour I've ever witnessed.

I don't think I've been this sad since I started reading these forums. Congratulations, naysayers, you've won. My spirit is broken. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong anymore.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, dear Kawartha, the mod of the world of black and white.
I cannot possibly say the grapes are sour, I haven't tasted them yet. I do, however, say the grapes' skin is less than palatable.
And I don't see the post I applaud as a glee-filled post of "ha ha they're going to fail". I see it as a cautionary tale.
If the mods here can only ever see warnings of possible outcomes as naysaying and putdowns of their volunteer work, I say Cyan has a big problem.
If (some) mods continue to act as now, pushing the positives to the total exclusion of all else, why would not the forum going public think they were paid lackeys?
I know mods walk a fine line - I am one elsewhere - but there is no need to follow blindly the company path. Blaze your own.
And I really, really hope that this game does become viable and remain for years to come, as that is the only way I will get to see it. If it fails early, my chance will be lost.
But I will say again, I think Ubisoft has handled the launch of the CD very poorly and have risked the future of Cyan by doing that.

__________________________________________________ _________
Every day above ground is another day waiting.

wickedkae

12-09-2003, 06:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mystmum:
Ah, dear Kawartha, the mod of the world of black and white.
I cannot possibly say the grapes are sour, I haven't tasted them yet. I do, however, say the grapes' skin is less than palatable.
And I don't see the post I applaud as a glee-filled post of "ha ha they're going to fail". I see it as a cautionary tale.
If the mods here can only ever see warnings of possible outcomes as naysaying and putdowns of their volunteer work, I say Cyan has a big problem.
If (some) mods continue to act as now, pushing the positives to the total exclusion of all else, why would not the forum going public think they were paid lackeys?
I know mods walk a fine line - I am one elsewhere - but there is no need to follow blindly the company path. Blaze your own.
And I really, really hope that this game does become viable and remain for years to come, as that is the only way I will get to see it. If it fails early, my chance will be lost.
But I will say again, I think Ubisoft has handled the launch of the CD very poorly and have risked the future of Cyan by doing that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well put. I too am not laughing and praying for the end of thisgame to come, just pointing at areas that bring up major concerns. if you cant acknowledge these faults then your view of this game is horribly limited.

I also agree that this game was not released correctly and in a good state. Whatever plan cyan has better be good, i mean REAL good.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

Coronagold

12-09-2003, 06:43 PM

(in Moes Tavern) Carl Carlson - "See? This is why I don't talk much."

Funny that within Prologue they're getting ready to split the population with a personal decision, and all this is going on here. I'd say that those totally frustrated with Cyans' attempt to do the impossible, take a shore leave till February 2004. Pop by then & see how things are doing.

http://sargem.hypermart.net/RelJump1sigJ.jpg

mszv

12-09-2003, 08:38 PM

Corona, we aren't being split apart, we are just discussing stuff! I think it's very interesting and very refreshing. There are people who care, there are people who are critical, there are people who care and are critical, there are people who are positive and hopeful, there are people who like the game and people who aren't sure. What could be better! It's a great discussion. It's a lively board, and most people aren't even playing the online game yet!

Carry on.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

Azimuth001

12-09-2003, 09:26 PM

First off, I just want to say that I am sorry I didn't read all of this thread before posting. A thought came to mind, and if I don't put it in writing soon, it might be gone forever http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Someone said that hosting this game on a private server will be no problem. I agree, hosting something the size of Prime would not be too hard for todayâ's computers with a good connection, but (and this is a big BUT)....Have you looked at the full map of Teledahn? Look around that age a bit, and find the map on the desk. We only see one very, very small part of this age. Think of Teledahn as the earth. What we saw of that age might be comparable to Mexico. There is still the entire earth left to explore, not to mention all of the other ages that might be just as large, if not larger. I don't think that any single PC is capable of hosting something that large. It would take a large network of top of the line PCs to host something of this scale, and I have a feeling that the DRC is not even sure how they are going to bring this entire age online yet. I see it opening up as an expansion pack in about 3 years or so.

wickedkae

12-09-2003, 10:08 PM

well it could actually be done rather easy and infact sizes of which you are talking about are being played on and hosted on as we discuss this.

I guess you dont play many large scale games but the size of Teledahn could easily be hosted and played on and in several different methods.

Most of it is water and guess what your never going out there so its not even in the game, that cuts down your map by half at least. So with just that being said not only could you host the entire age, but you could make it much bigger.

Antoher reason why its easy to host is becuase theres just not much going on, sorry, but Uru isnt exactly the most action packed game, so all your server is processing is people walking around which once again is EASILY handled.

so yes the game could be hosted.

but you know what, you will never even see the Uru servers having ages that large.

why? you ask.

Becuase the graphics engine wasnt built to handle the scale. Didnt you ever wonder why the neighborhoods are so small, come on now http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In reality this game is TINY compared alot of other online games (not MMOs) that arebeing hosted by people.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

dano83860

12-09-2003, 10:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jibjustin:
I would be _very_ surprised if there was even a single person on this board who did not want URU Live to be a huge success. I think we can all agree that everyone wants just that. Why else would we be here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surprise!

I really don't give a rip. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jibjustin

12-09-2003, 10:28 PM

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I stand corrected.

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

Azimuth001

12-09-2003, 11:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>well it could actually be done rather easy and infact sizes of which you are talking about are being played on and hosted on as we discuss this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please let me know what games come close to the size of what Teledahn can potential be. All of the games that I know of that are on this scale are all MMOGs. Granted, I donâ't play as many games as I once did, so I might be missing something.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Most of it is water and guess what your never going out there so its not even in the game, that cuts down your map by half at least. So with just that being said not only could you host the entire age, but you could make it much bigger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who's to say that we are never going out in the water? Sharperâ's journal says that he spent a long time on a boat in that age, so it is entirely possible that we can as well (someday). Even if you took out the water, the land mass is still much larger then any single computer can handle. Once you add people, this will put an even larger strain on things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Antoher reason why its easy to host is becuase theres just not much going on, sorry, but Uru isnt exactly the most action packed game, so all your server is processing is people walking around which once again is EASILY handled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll give you that. URU does not have any of the effects that other games have. Nothing blows up and no one is shooting anything...but...URU has (or is supposed to have) real time voice chat incorporated into the game. As you approach someone, you will hear them talk as you would if you were in a shopping mall. This can't be easy for any single PC to handle.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>so yes the game could be hosted<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In it's current state, I agree. This game can be hosted. A few years from now...no way.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>but you know what, you will never even see the Uru servers having ages that large.

why? you ask.

Becuase the graphics engine wasnt built to handle the scale. Didnt you ever wonder why the neighborhoods are so small, come on now
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are some very large ages in prime, and the graphics engine can handle them just fine. It renders in real time, so as you move along it will render new places. It will not render the entire age at once. The only way I can see this as being a problem is if we were able to get an air view of the age. I am also sure that the graphics engine is scaleable, meaning that they can upgrade it, much like the unreal engine is constantly being upgraded. When the developers made this engine, they made it with the idea in mind that this game will never die, which means that it must be able to constantly adapt. Even if it can't handle something now, thatâ's not to say that it can't change to meet the needs of the game, and handle it later.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>In reality this game is TINY compared alot of other online games (not MMOs) that arebeing hosted by people.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In It's current state...maybe, but it's current state is just a very small bit compared to what they have planed, and what they already have designed but are not releasing yet.

wickedkae

12-10-2003, 12:11 AM

Well i gotta be honest every age i played wasnt very big at all(beat the game so i played em all) I guess im just used to big games.

For expample, you take a medium sized BF1842 map and you could fit EVERYTHING that exists in uru live atm in it easy. A large scale BF1942 map makes Uru look like a spec of dust. This game is currently hosted by people with 64 players at once and it runs great. ( and there is much more going on in this game than Uru will ever have)

As far as the engine, well im not sure which one they are using or how much freedom they have with it to expand it. You would think that the ability to upgrade would be a given since this is an MMO, so lets hope so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also even if we could somehow go on the water, which for some reason i dont think will happen sadly, the entire world of teledahn could easily be hosted. I was actually surprised when i looked at that map how small the entire age was.

As far as rendering distance goes its an engine issue, and from what ive seen it doesnt seem like the engine was designed for large worlds of the caliber that other games posses. I dont think we will ever see a full size Teledahn. You should go play bf1942 if u havnt i think you would be shocked at how tiny Uru really is

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

Joannacc

12-10-2003, 05:42 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>For expample, you take a medium sized BF1842 map and you could fit EVERYTHING that exists in uru live atm in it easy. A large scale BF1942 map makes Uru look like a spec of dust. This game is currently hosted by people with 64 players at once and it runs great. ( and there is much more going on in this game than Uru will ever have)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but thats 64 players, not the 1000 odd that a single Uru server will be handling in a persistant world. The overheads in terms of comms are slightly higher. Also, the graphics arguments of yours I don't get at all, the graphics engine runs client side. The graphics for the ages are rendered and exist on your PC, same as BF1942. The engine has been created by Cyan, it's not Unreal nor is it quake 3. The online Uru game, KI interface, gestures etc are a different thing to number of weapons if thats what you mean by 'more features'. Also Unreal/Quake 3 engines could not handle the enviromental changes required to run/maintain the puzzles that Uru contains, which is why Cyan had to make their own engine.

Hmmm.. look try another MMORPG, not an FPS game if you want to make an accurate comparison. These games have zones, so the comms traffic can easily be handled for the 1000s of users involved. Thats probably why ages are small I would say. They have to be, if only to make a distinction between 'local' chat and 'world' chat. And, so your client isn't asked to render too much. And, so network traffic doesnt get out of hand, or server load (you can split zones over seperate servers while mainting them in a cluster representing a world, most persistant world games do this) Be honest, in BF1942 your machine is probably only being asked to track/render at most 30 odd other players. In an Age within Uru it'll have to be able to track/render maybe a hundred, as well as keep up with conversations between the players. Inventory changes, relto page swaps etc, etc.

I'm not in live, so I dunno, but I imagine the servers are also keeping track of everybodys Relto/inventory as well as the many player created hoods. In BF1942, when yr all dead then it just restarts from scratch. Persistant worlds require a completely different development approach to the non-persistant FPS worlds. I can understand entirely your questioning as to why Uru isn't bigger, but your making a very unfair comparison.

wickedkae

12-10-2003, 10:36 AM

so do you even know how uru works?

my camparrison is perfect becuase uru servers are exactly like a hosted server, just with connected servers giving the illusion of an MMO. When u get in Uru live u will know what i mean. You will never see this game be populated in any 1 area like ANY other MMO. the uru servers werent designed for this, thats why they took the easy way out with "neighborhoods".

In a game such as BF1942 )which i guess you havnt played) there is so much going on and being processed theres a reason why you need a seriously awesome to host 64 people. Uru will NEVER process as much as a game like BF1942, theres just not that much going, ig you think things like chat would bog down a server i think you should go pick up a tcp/ip book....

I use a game like BF1942 becuase it shows how large a world can be and still be hosted. But io can even use the unreal 2 engine. If you think about it, so far EVRY AGE is no bigger than the size of a single UT2K level, you cant argue that becuase it s the truth, infact some of UT2Ks levels are even large than any Uru age and again theres much more going on.

So yes this game could EASILY have been hosted and maybe with a little work on cyans part more people could have been added per server.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

graham_614

12-10-2003, 10:44 AM

I'm just thinking outloud here:

If it could be done, it would be done. It seems to me that the lads and lasses at Cyan know what they're doing. So if there's a method for distributing the game, they've probably examined it.

In the case of games like Unreal Tournament (both original and 2k3/4{well, not 4 yet}) and Battlefield 1942 - Somehow the level design doesn't seem as integrated to me. Generally in Uru you have a power system - something that powers all of the age, as well as various interconnected mechanical puzzles. From what I can tell, those machinations are modelled and actualized in game - I just don't see anything that complex in either of those games.

Anyway, that's just me babbling outloud.

Free Urulive!

Jibjustin

12-10-2003, 10:51 AM

wickedkae:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> ...ig you think things like chat would bog down a server i think you should go pick up a tcp/ip book...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can see how text chat wouldn't necessarily bog a server down. What about the voice-over-IP chat aspect of URU Live? Wouldn't that add a big load to a server if 1000 simultaneous users were using that aspect of their KI's? I know that aspect of the KI's may not be fully implemented yet. But it has been discussed as part of the KI's functions for some point down the road.

Also, in regards to water areas, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we were not only able to access water areas (swimming, boating, etc.) in maps, but possibly underwater areas of maps (like in Riven). So, eventually, that might make areas like Teledahn much larger than they currently are, with updates over time.

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

mszv

12-10-2003, 10:53 AM

I'm not going to respond on the technology, but on how Uru feels to me. It may be massively multiplayer, but it feels more personal. I guess the MMO part is that you can play with whoever you want (on your shard), but you won't be playing with all that many of them, at one time. Private ages work well if you are in there by yourself, or with a couple of other people. A neighborhood is not that big, more like a smallish to medium size party - up to 20 seems about right - different people perhaps, but not all there at one time. The city is bigger, but wall to wall people doesn't feel right there either - it takes away from the beauty and the feel of the space. I can't see any location being able to support hundreds of people in one area.

The personal ages are big in that they look expansive, but a lot of it is scenery - vistas in the distance. On where you can go, I don't think it's all that big. I like it because it's managable for me. I'd say the biggest age, in terms of where we can go, when it's all open, is the city.

I did read that Cyan said that some ages would be expanded, such as Teledahn.

Again, I'm not translating this to a LAN vs. MMO game, just that Uru doesn't feel massively large.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

wickedkae

12-10-2003, 11:38 AM

that would rule if they would let us swim. I hate how they wont let you jump into a pond, its trivial but thats something that would bring Uru alive

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

DancnDude

12-10-2003, 11:46 AM

I think the whole point about MMO vs LAN is that the developers want to create a "living", active world. They want to change things daily. Have contests, puzzles, a changing story.

Technically you could place Uru into a LAN environment just fine. I think it would be able to be hosted and run well. It's just that having a continuously changing, active world wouldn't happen. You'd just get a new set of ages with an expansion pack.

LAN games are more geared towards a game that is fun by itself. You just have the game and keep playing because it is fun, even without updates. Uru wouldn't work nearly as well because once you finish the storyline and puzzles, your fun would be over. It doesn't have a great deal of replayability.

mszv

12-10-2003, 11:59 AM

Oh - I can contribute!

What we can get our avatars to do, in the game, might change. I remember reading in the old beta forum (think I did) that they might be expanded later. I'm hoping we get to use our hands and arms, and more importantly, swim!! just sitting in the water (/sit if you are online) is fun, but it's not enough. Again, this is not "for sure", just something I remember reading about what we might get. It's a thought.

If there is an enhancement you want, it could not hurt to put it in, in an enhancement request.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

wickedkae

12-10-2003, 12:18 PM

im actually surprised on how little attention they paid to emotes. I mean, if this is suposed to be a MMO, emotes are an essential part and for some reason they only gave us like 10, which is real bad. The average MMO has hundreds.

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

graham_614

12-10-2003, 12:38 PM

Patience young grasshoppa. I'm sure it'll be addressed.

Free Urulive!

Arisia

12-10-2003, 07:30 PM

WOW! I would have never fathomed that my analysis of a possible outcome would have sparked such a heated debate.
One would have thought that I had said something really bad about the President. Which reminds me...Do you know that if you do a search on Google.com for "miserable failure", the top match will be very funny for Democrats and marginally funny for Republicans?

I would like to respond to some of the comments that were directed at me.
1) Do you really think that UBI will continue URU Live just because a handful of devoted Myst fans (I myself am one) are patient enough to wait until the bugs are fixed or pledge their undying loyalty to URU Live? Myst was ONCE considered one of the greatest games ever created, now most publications joke at how 'dull' it was. The fans of Myst have grown and moved on with their lives (work, wife, kids...) and do not have very much free time left for games. The new generation of gamers have flocked to the shooting/fighting titles available today and they prefer laser bazookas to linking books; find exploring no fun at all if you don't, at least, get to kill someone. The reality is this next generation is the corporate bread and butter. URU will need a huge percentage of these players for success and I am confident that URU will succeed because the game is phenomenal, Myst is very well known, and there is a lot of next-gen players that have grown bored with the shooting/fighting genre. My opinion is that these very gamers that will determine the fate of URU are the ones that will grow restless as they wait to go online and will eventually leave for greener pastures where they can steal a Chrysler Crossfire. In the end, I posed the question to myself as if I was the financial company behind URU. Would I be willing to sacrifice profits for a select number of players or, if there is not enough people signing on, would I send URU to the abyss and make room for another game that will make money? Remember, it's corporate America, the land of the fee.
2) As for my comments about the moderators. Mystmum had posted a response on December 9th in this thread that I think had brilliantly and poetically matched my very thoughts. I would also like to point out that, as a moderator, you have been chosen by UBI/Cyan to play a referee of sorts. You are to maintain civility and peace between the side of company and player without bias. Referees are meant to maintain a fair and equal fight between both sides and do not participate in the battle. I understand that you have your opinions and you feel they are important enough to express. As moderator, this is not ethical or allowed. If you do want to express your personal opinions on another's post, then may I suggest that just as you chose to be a moderator that you request UBI/Cyan to remove the title from your name. For one to enjoy the title, one must endure the responsibility.
3) My original post was only an observation of what might happen, not what will happen. It was only meant to, hopefully, alert Cyan to a possible crisis if left unattended and that's it...nothing more. I do not want to see such a wonderful company as Cyan fail. I do not want to learn that I will never see a new Age as it was intended to be. It saddens me to think that this is even a possibility and I for one will do everything I can to see that URU will succeed, including pointing out flaws in hopes that whomever will see and correct them before it's too late and continue to wait...but not forever.

HG1973

12-10-2003, 07:56 PM

I agree with what you said to some extent Arisia.

I've been waiting since day one, *itching and moaning - Why this?, Why that?

Yet I have stuck it through. It has been displeasing to wait and it does seem pretty un-professional of Ubi/Cyan the way it's been handled since beta, but I'm glad I stuck it through. These boards, along with the great community of sites(plus a little help from other distractions) has kept me interested and willing to keep coming back. Now that I got my invite, it's just about time to go spelunking. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://unrealhell.homestead.com/files/uru_hg.jpg

Jibjustin

12-10-2003, 07:58 PM

Arisia:

You rock!

I am so glad you posted your initial thoughts. It has been a blast responding to them and to see all the viewpoints that have been expressed as a result.

I'll leave the moderators to respond, if they feel the need, to your comments concerning their duties.

As far as the next generation of gamers go, both my sister's family and my friend's family play the Myst series of games as a team. Parents and children exploring the ages and solving the puzzles together. Both are in the middle of RealMyst at the moment and the one friend and his two boys will be starting on URU: Ages Beyond Myst in a few weeks when they get through with Myst.

Your right, they don't have the time to play it through all in one sitting. They just link in as time permits and continue where they left off. Their kids are always looking forward to it. This group of kids will grow up with good memories of playing Myst games with Mom and Dad. There is another thread in these forums where parents are sharing stories of their experiences playing URU with their children.

I think we will see a lot of kids eager to continue their adventures in URU Live and continue playing with Mom and Dad until they are old enough to play on their own. Certainly some will prefer other types of games more and some will enjoy adventure-type games (like Myst) just as much. It will just depend on their personalities. Those that like the puzzle solving and exploration will gravitate toward games that focus on that.

Plus, the next generation of gamers will be much more comfortable with text messaging, instant messaging and voice chat. A game that utilizes those things well will have a distinctive advantage.

Rock on,

Justin

http://homepage.mac.com/justinesparza/nmroadsign.jpg

[This message was edited by Jibjustin on Wed December 10 2003 at 08:06 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jibjustin on Wed December 10 2003 at 08:12 PM.]

mszv

12-10-2003, 09:00 PM

Well, let me try a reply to Arisa's post. It's a long post, so if anyone wants to skip this, fine by me!

On the fans of the Myst series games, what type of fans do you mean? The avid fans who post on the boards, the ones who played one of the games, all of them? It's not clear. People who played the Myst series games include a whole range of folks, including older and younger people who also play other games (role playing games, first person shooters, adventure games, strategy games, MMO games), and people who don't play other games at all. Also, older people play games too, including people with children! I'm sure there are people who fit into the type of people you are talking about, but it's a lot more complex. If Uru is supposed to appeal to only the devoted Myst series game fan as described by you, I think it will fail - I just don't think there are enough of them around (100,000, that's the number I heard bandied about) to support an online game. Sorry, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that all the people who play or played the Myst series games don't play other types of games - just can't do it.

Next, on Uru and making money. Cyan didn't set out to make a "garage game". If you want a garage game, Dark Fall is a great example of one, it was made by one person, who supported himself doing somethng else to make it. Cyan spent millions, and I assume they paid and continue to pay their people competitive wages. (New people too, and not a super small number, look at the list of people who developed it). It's a big ticket, expensive game, made with expensive tools, not a "one or two people working in your basement and you have other jobs" game. Cyan also got money from Ubisoft (maybe other places too) and they got money from the sales of their previous games. I've heard the costs to make the game described as in the millions. Then there is the cost of maintaining the game network - servers, people. Oh yeah, one small aside, Ubisoft is a French company, though they aquired some American companies and have offices all over. They are a very interesting company, if you read about them, on their site - so much for "corporate America"!

I'm also not clear how all this is going to be maintained unless the game sells. How are we going to get new ages, and have the game run on the game servers, and recoup the cost of investing in the game, unless the game makes money? Is there something I'm not seeing here? Hopefully, there's a wrap-up period - you don't need instant high numbers, but it seems perfectly reasonable to me to think that the game has to bring in money for it to continue. I'm not sure why this is surprising to you - do you think it's something Cyan didn't know? Cyan is a smart company. You know, it's not just a labor of love for them, it's a business too. They know the score. If you want games to be produced as part of a non profit arrangement (grants to artists) that's not the model Cyan used. I don't know of any game organization that operates with non profit status, though that would be an interesting model, with different challenges.

Finally, have you played Uru? You know, it's not the same kind of game as the other Myst series games. Gameplay is different. There are logic puzzles, and also jumping puzzles and two timed action sequences. Admittedly, the action sequences are slow, but the game does require something in the way of reflexes. I'd call it an adventure/action game. It's a different sort of game, one that I might think was designed to appeal to more different sorts of gamers than the Myst games series loving adventure gamer (not knocking it, I'm an adventure gamer myself). Just thought.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

graham_614

12-10-2003, 09:54 PM

With all due respect, Arisia, I wasn't asked to be a referee. I referee soccer - and that's certainly not what I do here.

Kawartha and I are often diametrically opposed on a lot of points. We tend to balance one another. However, I refuse to check my opinion at the door; if you get one, I get one too. You've made some good points here, but I personally don't think they're acurate or anything to worry about. I've got a great feeling about this game. Personally I think you're wrong.

Does that make you wrong? Negatory good buddy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You might be right on the money. Here's hoping you're not.

Essentially if I busted the thread up and locked the heck out of it because you posted something I didn't like, well I'd be guilty of abusing the responsibility I've been asked to tend. The threads I locked earlier today were locked because of inaccurate information (one accidental and one intentional bit of misinformation).

So in short, post away, make your points. S'all good, as they say.

Don't expect me to clam up or agree with you just because I'm a mod. I'll grant you the same courtesy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Free Urulive!*

*for the first month. I'm willing to pay for the rest.

HG1973

12-11-2003, 01:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by maztec:
My personal opinion is that hopefully the delay does get rid of the people with short attention spans -- generally FPS gamers -- it will make for a much more pleasent in-cavern experience.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find that statement to be harsh, maybe even bordering on offensive. I've been playing games for over 20 years and the bulk of them have been First Person shooters. I'd dare to go as far as saying I am a hardcore FPS player.

I love them, love them to death. It's not the blood and guts, it's the skills and comraderie it takes to win. No other game can give me the adrenaline rush that FPS's do.

That said, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy a good puzzle, adventure, roleplaying or other genre game when the story and gameplay are just right. Watch those labels there buddy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://unrealhell.homestead.com/files/uru_hg.jpg

mszv

12-11-2003, 01:49 AM

This happens all the time over at an adventure gamer forum I'm a member of. Sometimes people end up slamming the types of games they don't play. Usually they get it wrong, on what the game is about. It's just silly.

Incidentally, all sorts of games have story and adventure now, not just adventure games like the Myst series games. And besides, there are action elements in Uru now, admittedly slow (thankfully) but they are there.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

mystmum

12-11-2003, 02:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by graham_614:
With all due respect, Arisia, I wasn't asked to be a referee. I referee soccer - and that's certainly not what I do here.

Kawartha and I are often diametrically opposed on a lot of points. We tend to balance one another. However, I refuse to check my opinion at the door; if you get one, I get one too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Have you looked at what the definition of "moderator" actually is?
You should have, BEFORE you agreed to take the position.
According to Mirriam Webster it is <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>1 : one who arbitrates : MEDIATOR
2 : one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or discussion: as a : the presiding officer of a Presbyterian governing body b : the nonpartisan presiding officer of a town meeting c : the chairman of a discussion group<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think the important words here are mediator and nonpartisan.
You moderate, you check your opinion at the door, save it for a forum you DON'T moderate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

__________________________________________________ _________
Every day above ground is another day waiting.

_ Paula _

12-11-2003, 07:01 AM

Merriam Webster didn't define our positions as moderators, Ubi did.

We are here to insure that the guidelines that Ubi has set down are followed. At no time has Ubi told us that we can not voice our opinions.

Until such time, I will excercise my right of free speech.

Pa'lua (in Cavern)

Roac

12-11-2003, 09:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Have you looked at what the definition of "moderator" actually is?
...
According to Mirriam Webster it is <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What Webster defines that word as is irrlevant. Ubi created the "player filled moderator" group, and decided their purpose, responsibilities, limitations, and so forth. In short, Ubi.com admin sets the definition of what ubi.com moderators are to do, not Webster.

At present, moderators are allowed to voice their oppinion on the forums; they are moderators and players. As such, they are allowed to participate in all the same types of discussions that players are. That privledge is not voided by their volunteering to help keep the place clean.

If you have other questions about what the moderators here do, please direct your questions to myself (admin), Alahmnat (admin), Khatie (Community Manager), or Randomos (another CM).

-Roac
King of Ravens

[This message was edited by Roac on Thu December 11 2003 at 12:20 PM.]

maztec

12-11-2003, 09:27 AM

HG1973,

Yes, that statement was a bit harsh and overgeneralized. I could have left out the "generally FPS gamers" bit, and the chunk on short attention spans.

Both are somewhat unnecessary because both types of people make solid additions to the player community.

I was focusing more on one type of player who I have seen making a fairly standard exodus. The "blood and guts" or "troll!" style players. I think you can guess what I mean by this, then again I also figured that with the origination post http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'll stand by my first statement still, but will admit to it being over-generalized.

BTW, I've played a lot of FPS games also. Then again, I've also played a lot of text games...

HG1973

12-11-2003, 11:35 AM

I was only giving you a hard time Maz. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

There are some gamers out there that do have problems with slower games like Uru. They expect things to happen every 5 seconds, then get bored and start ranting.

I find playing a balance of game genre, keeps me happy.

http://unrealhell.homestead.com/files/uru_hg.jpg

wickedkae

12-11-2003, 01:16 PM

ya know whats funny, all the people i know that are hardcore FPS players (me included) beat these myst games in a day or so and my friends that dont really get into FPS games tend to take longer. Its just a personal observation of the people i know. I thought it was kind of funny that someone could say that people that enjoy FPS need to be filtered out of this game when they are the people that tend to grasp it much better...

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

Kwartha

12-11-2003, 01:22 PM

I wouldn't agree that someone who raced through Myst in a day has a better grasp of it than someone who took a month. It's far more likely that they simply have a good grasp of a strategy guide http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Myst games are about slow, thoughtful exploration, not racing to the finish. Most of the time, the endings aren't nearly as impressive as the little sights and sounds that get tucked into the hard to reach corners of the game. It's all about reading the journals, making observations, carefully digesting what you've seen, and (in the end) using everything the game showed you to make the right decision. I don't think someone who compresses all that into one day will ever feel they got their money's worth out of a Myst game, be it single-player or multi-player. It's not the same experience at all.

maztec

12-11-2003, 01:27 PM

wickedkae, true enough. Many FPS players are fairly smart and play FPS games just to relax the mind and get a little twitch instinct in.

Many of the FPS players I know have higher degrees in Mathematics, Computer Science and Engineering, Physics, Chemistry, and Engineering.

I don't see many MD's that play FPS, they get enough of the gore in real life.

But, a LOT of FPS players are angsty teenagers who just use FPS as an escape from their family, friends, school, and reality. These escapists (not all teenagers -- many are older also) tend to be very impatient with something not happening instantly and are ready to bolt -- so they flame, troll, and run.

Now, on a purely psychological level -- the reason why FPS gamers are better at games like Myst than the average Joe is because they have better observation skills. FPS games have been proven to increase a persons mental acuity to their surroundings. Games like Myst are completely about your surroundings, seeing everything, taking it in, and figuring out what to do with it. So, FPS gamers have a distinct advantage in this area.

I personally find that a lot of FPS gamers have an easy time of concentrating on a monitor screen -- but give them a piece of paper to figure soemthing out on and they get bored fast -- or scribble.

maz

graham_614

12-11-2003, 02:43 PM

Mystmum,

Again, with due respect, I *did* read over the mod guidelines for this board before I took the position. It said nothing of stifling my own opinion. To be frank, if it came to that - Well Chief, you can have my badge and my gun.

Roac et al have essentially cleared up what it was that I and the other mods were asked to do. I believe I've been doing the job with a smile on my face so far. I apologize if I've offended you or Arisia - but my opinions are my own and unless you've got a mighty good argument, they're not likely to change http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So in short, I'm gonna keep on truckin' - I hope y'all do too. Just because a mod makes a post doesn't make it law. Try not to hog the lanes now, y'hear? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Free Urulive!*

Ki: 00545671

*for the first month. I'm willing to pay for the rest.

On a seperate note, I'm an FPS fiend http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mszv

12-11-2003, 02:49 PM

You know, as a slow adventure gamer with poor game reflexes I find it just so unfair that the smart FPS folks are breezing through both the jumping and the hard logic puzzles! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sigh. I'm actually going to remark on that in my adventure game forum whenever someone says anything bad about FPS games and the people who play them!

Oh - one more thing - I think the problem with a really quick FPS gamer playing Uru is that they are going to be bored. Along with the puzzles, it's one of those beautiful, evocative type games meant to set a mood. I think the deal is that you are supposed to wander around some of the time, reading the little tidbits of info and doing nothing. Maybe there are slow parts in shooters, I don't know aobut that.

Regards, mszv
Game name: amarez
KI #: have to find it
Put that down, you are not in a game, this is my life!

1.2GH, 640MB, GeForce4 TI 4200 128MB, Santa Cruz Surround Sound, DSL, 1200kbps down/200 kbps up, wired/wireless home network, Linksys router

Alahmnat

12-11-2003, 03:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by mystmum:
You moderate, you check your opinion at the door, save it for a forum you DON'T moderate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now there's the pot calling the kettle black. You're not making any friends here, MM, trust me. I know how much you love stirring people up, but it's getting old. Knock it off. You know as well as anyone else that mods can (and you quite often do) post their personal opinions on the game, the community, and the company in the forums they moderate. I've been doing it for two and a half years, and you've not said BOO to me about it on the Exile boards.

----------
Alahmnat
Guild of Archivists, DPWR.NET (http://www.dpwr.net)
Uru Forum Moderator, Community Assistant

CosimoDeMedici

12-11-2003, 03:47 PM

I finally got the fireflies into my Relto, but I'm having a hard time herding them into my armoire.

mystmum

12-11-2003, 07:48 PM

With all due respect Al, I have severely moderated my tone since taking up the stick on Exile, with only one exception that I can think of.
I don't insult other members there either.

__________________________________________________ _________
Every day above ground is another day waiting.

mynx79

12-11-2003, 08:40 PM

As far as FPS style games vs. Uru, I can appreciate both equally. They are completely different styles that fill different gaming needs.

Personally, I love the quick pace of a FPS. It can be a complete adrenaline rush. On the other hand I really love the emmersive calm that comes with playing Uru.

(Us FPS gamers just may be better at jumping...thats all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

graham_614

12-11-2003, 08:50 PM

Oh yeah!

*hop*

As an expert FPS player *hop* I've *hop* got a way with jumping. It's really *hop* all about the *hop* concentraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

*panic link*

So Very Dissapointing.

Free Urulive!*

Ki: 00545671

*for the first month. I'm willing to pay for the rest.

Jerle

12-12-2003, 11:12 AM

Pfffft, graham.... it's all in the wrist if you're going to strafe jump in Uru... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Didn't you download the UruArena mod? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

http://jerle.mystfans.com/temp/UruArena01.jpg

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graham_614

12-12-2003, 11:16 AM

Now that's even funnier than Uru: Live on a Flan. I actually laughed right out loud for that one.

I'm gonna see if I can rocket jump all the way up the great stairs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Free Urulive!*

Ki: 00545671

*for the first month. I'm willing to pay for the rest.

Kwartha

12-12-2003, 11:19 AM

Speaking of Quake, someone needs to record a video of themselves playing through all of Myst in 15 minutes flat. And I mean solving every age, not just grabbing the white page... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

wickedkae

12-12-2003, 12:21 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerle:
Pfffft, graham.... it's all in the wrist if you're going to strafe jump in Uru... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif Didn't you download the UruArena mod? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

http://jerle.mystfans.com/temp/UruArena01.jpg[

Would be much more than what Uru live is now, come on argue with me on that, I dare you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v11/wickedkae/wickedkaex3.JPG

Jerle

12-12-2003, 01:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kawartha:
Speaking of Quake, someone needs to record a video of themselves playing through all of Myst in 15 minutes flat. And I mean solving every age, not just grabbing the white page... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hahahaha.... if someone wanted to make a Myst Quake map, I'd even reinstall Q3A. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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