Luthier's Update on Cliffs of Dover over at 1C Forums

[JG14_Jagr]

If you have missed it, Luthier posted this to the 1C forums yesterday...

Hi everyone,

As I see, there are plenty of wild rumors circulating on these forums, and of course it's completely our fault. I myself simply cannot spend enough time posting on these forums, as I work 10-12 hour days 7 days a week and barely have time to sit down. I feel the weight of my failure to interact with the community daily, but all I have time for is browsing the forums, not actually posting.

We are however in the process of creating a full-time community manager position and setting up an old team member who will interact with you guys daily, answer questions, and keep you up to date on all events.

Otherwise, the work on the patch continues. The true full-screen mode has been a nightmare from hell. It still does not work properly. Every once in a while, after you hit Esc to go to the menu from inside the game, the game will go into the background and require you to alt-tab to you. And while it may seem like a pretty minor thing to most of you, after everything you've already lived through, it's still bad practice and annoying and we always feel like we're 'this' close to solving it.

The current build we have did address the multiplayer issues, thanks in no small part to the help of the dedicated server hosts. Obviously MP is a larger priority than the full-screen mode. If by the end of the day Tuesday we still haven't solved the full screen issue, we will most likely release the patch anyway just so you guys can have stable reliable MP experience, and add the full-screen fix at a later time.

We are also hard at work on some larger game components. We are also hiring, with quite a few new openings posted recently for our Moscow office. We already have a new team member, an experienced AI programmer, reworking our plane AI code and voice comms, and we are working to expand and improve our team during the coming weeks to make sure we can roll out better more well-rounded updates quicker. We are also hard at work on FM changes and improvements, redesigning GUI to make it more user-friendly, and creating new variants of existing aircraft.

Those team members not hard at work on improving CoD have also been working on new content for a new project for quite some time. We've posted a teaser in our V-E day post. Just to state again, work on that project is specifically designed not to interfere with our CoD support.

Most importantly, please don't take the frequency of my visits as an indication of anything right now. As a matter of fact, if you see me here posting a lot, that's the best clue that we are NOT working as hard as we should. All of us at 1C:Maddox Games, 1C Softclub, and Ubisoft, are fully committed to the game and to the series, and like we always said, we will continue to support it with patches, add-ons and sequels in the coming months and years.

[MB_Avro_UK]

Many thanks for this update http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[shop2801B3296]

Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on. Also, I would concentrate more on the FPS issues rather then the silly little things like the alt tab problem.

Personally, I would like a post that says they are committed to getting us a decent 60 FPS over land instead of the crappy 25-30 FPS I keep getting.

[Outlaw---]

Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on...

Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw.

[Crazy_Goanna]

Originally posted by Outlaw---:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on...

Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Count me in on that
I am strapping on the steel-caps now!!
Point me in the right direction
God I hate whingers of that calibre

[Tiger2709]

Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on. Also, I would concentrate more on the FPS issues rather then the silly little things like the alt tab problem.

Personally, I would like a post that says they are committed to getting us a decent 60 FPS over land instead of the crappy 25-30 FPS I keep getting.

My FPS is okay with a mid level PC, you have given no specs or settings, so no one will be able to assist you improve the games performance, unless of course you are just trolling, then ignore my post as we aren't allowed to feed the trolls.

[nvrsummer2]

SHOP guy up top must not know what a great team 1:C is! This sim will be great in time.

Dont like it? dont buy it...Or... Make your own!

[Gibbage1]

Souldent an AI programmer of been highered BEFORE release? Its still the same crappy IL2 AI. It was good 10 years ago, now its just lame.

[Jaws2002]

Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Souldent an AI programmer of been highered BEFORE release? Its still the same crappy IL2 AI. It was good 10 years ago, now its just lame.

Most likely there was not enough money back then for an extra AI programer.
Anyway. The AI is clearly different. It does some interesting things sometimes.
It needs work, but saying is "the same crappy 10 years old Il-2 AI", makes you look silly.

[Feathered_IV]

I know he means well and has the best intentions, but I'm sort of getting the feeling that Luthier is a little out of his depth as project leader. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Outlaw---:
Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw.

Not at all. But hey, someone who has never really worked hard in their life is apt to take that kind of view, especially about work they have no real experience in doing. A born "upper manager" if you know what I mean.

And to counter the Repeated Big Lie: Maddox Games has not been working on this game full time for any 8 years.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Souldent an AI programmer of been highered BEFORE release? Its still the same crappy IL2 AI. It was good 10 years ago, now its just lame.

They HIRED a new guy (as opposed to giving one an office on a higher floor.. duhhh, "highered").

That doesn't say that they had no one writing AI before, does it?

[RedToo]

Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
I know he means well and has the best intentions, but I'm sort of getting the feeling that Luthier is a little out of his depth as project leader. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I think he was out of his depth when he was in charge of Pacific Fighters ...

RedToo.

[KIMURA]

Originally posted by Outlaw---:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on...

Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all, I think Shop is right on that. After all we did read in the past about the developement of CoD in the past, the picture grew up that a developement plan never ever existed for that game. You have not to wonder that your project fails at the end of the given time frame.

[Quarknova]

Poor Luthier, I am really sorry for you, but what an incredible mess.
There is a french proverb that says "rien ne sert de courir, il faut partir à temps" or "there is no use in running, you have to start on time". Unfortunately I am afraid you all may be running like hell but to where? Like a chicken that runs in a chaotic way when the head is cut off. There are so many open issues that it seems an impossible task. Good luck anyway.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by KIMURA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Outlaw---:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on...

Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all, I think Shop is right on that. After all we did read in the past about the developement of CoD in the past, the picture grew up that a developement plan never ever existed for that game. You have not to wonder that your project fails at the end of the given time frame. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except for the full time for 8 years part, or even the 8 years part. Herr Goebbels must be smiling to see his Big Lie technique getting results.

[Mysticpuma2003]

I sometimes wonder if the release of Cliffs of Dover in such an un-finished state was a calculated move to actually bring revenue into the Company, which has now meant they can employ enough people to actual make it into a useable product?

I don't care if that's what they did in a bid to save CloD from being canned, but if the revunue gained has enabled them to actually complete the project, then it's a very tactically (though not very moral) astute move.

Cheers, MP

[ploughman]

Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
I know he means well and has the best intentions, but I'm sort of getting the feeling that Luthier is a little out of his depth as project leader. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Early days yet F4. Given the product of the last six years of effort a new man at the rudder's got to be a good thing. They are investing in people to get the thing done.

[bigchump]

Maybe the "new team member", the "experienced AI programmer", is Oleg?

[marc_schreck]

Originally posted by bigchump:
Maybe the "new team member", the "experienced AI programmer", is Oleg?

No, it's "Sorlim", Ubisoft's magical community-developer and latest secret weapon thrown into projects which have already been driven against the wall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

[shop2801B3296]

Originally posted by Crazy_Goanna:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Outlaw---:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on...

Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Count me in on that
I am strapping on the steel-caps now!!
Point me in the right direction
God I hate whingers of that calibre </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That might be your opinion, but I have one about the game. I do think it's a shame the game isn't finished yet given the length of time it's been in development and I would have had no complaints if it had stated on the box that it was still in beta stage. The problem I have is that I bought into something not knowing any of this at the time.

[scottmal1]

Shop, I think you've made your point mate, Do you have to keep banging on about the same old thing at every given opportunity? Why not do what the majority do and post when it's something positive that could possibly benefit other forum users, that really is the point of this forum, Cheers.

[danjama]

Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crazy_Goanna:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Outlaw---:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
Shame them 10 -12 hours a day 7 days a week hasn't produced a game that is finished 8 years on...

Am I the only one that would like to kick this guys a$& into the dirt?

--Outlaw. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Count me in on that
I am strapping on the steel-caps now!!
Point me in the right direction
God I hate whingers of that calibre </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That might be your opinion, but I have one to and it's about the game. I do think it's a shame the game isn't finished yet given the length of time it's been in development and I would have had no complaints if it had stated on the box that it was still in beta stage. The problem I have is that I bought into something not knowing any of this at the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've been problematic since you joined this forum. It doesn't bother me too much, because i'm spending less and less time here. However I would like to know, did you actually play the original IL2? How about Forgotten Battles? How about Pacific Fighters? How about the final piece in the series? And not forgetting, all of the paid add-ons that added content, features and campaigns to extend the life of the sim to the point that it's at today; Battle Over Europe, PE2, Aces Over Berlin etc.

If you knew about any of the above titles, you'd probably be able to conlude that they have not been building CloD for 8 years, but have been supporting/improving many versions of IL2.

Maybe you should learn to research a PC game purchase before clicking buy, like everyone else has.

If you're not happy with CloD, go and play il2 1946 for a while, and educate yourself.

[shop2801B3296]

It's the game thats been problematic. I wouldn't even have posted here if I could get the game to run on my computer. I think I'll just have to look for a new game and hope the devs can fix this in the meantime, I guess i'm just frustrated it's not playable for me at the moment, but I'll give it a go in another few months when they patch it.

No I didn't play il2 or any flight sim, I am just getting into them now.

[danjama]

Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
It's the game thats been problematic. I wouldn't even have posted here if I could get the game to run on my computer. I think I'll just have to look for a new game and hope the devs can fix this in the meantime, I guess i'm just frustrated it's not playable for me at the moment, but I'll give it a go in another few months when they patch it.

No I didn't play il2 or any flight sim, I am just getting into them now.

Well, il2 1946 is a good place to start my friend, better than CloD anyway. For £4.99 or less, you get the whole of WW2 covered, and even some pre/post WW2. What are you waiting for? Do you realise il2 looks good even by todays standards? And it WORKS. What makes you think you'll like CloD when it works, if you won't even try '46.

Just sayin'.

[Lake9JG26]

I think that getting my money back was a good move. It is a great shame that after all this time there were so many problems with this game.

[Kongo Otto]

Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
It's the game thats been problematic. I wouldn't even have posted here if I could get the game to run on my computer. I think I'll just have to look for a new game and hope the devs can fix this in the meantime, I guess i'm just frustrated it's not playable for me at the moment, but I'll give it a go in another few months when they patch it.

No I didn't play il2 or any flight sim, I am just getting into them now.

Well, il2 1946 is a good place to start my friend, better than CloD anyway. For £4.99 or less, you get the whole of WW2 covered, and even some pre/post WW2. What are you waiting for? Do you realise il2 looks good even by todays standards? And it WORKS. What makes you think you'll like CloD when it works, if you won't even try '46.

Just sayin'. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Po-cat]

Originally posted by shop2801B3296:
It's the game thats been problematic. I wouldn't even have posted here if I could get the game to run on my computer. I think I'll just have to look for a new game and hope the devs can fix this in the meantime, I guess i'm just frustrated it's not playable for me at the moment, but I'll give it a go in another few months when they patch it.

No I didn't play il2 or any flight sim, I am just getting into them now.

Well, that's telling.

You've joined a community which to a greater or lesser degree has vast experience of buying games which are initially unplayable, and eventually become the state of the art - patience is a virtue, and so is ultimate faith.

Hands up who remembers the last time a game was 100% fit-for-purpose on first release?

For me it works quite well enough to get loads of practice in for when it's fully sorted and everyone's playing it online. That way I may have a chance to use the inexperienced guys for cannon-fodder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[WOLFMondo]

Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
I sometimes wonder if the release of Cliffs of Dover in such an un-finished state was a calculated move to actually bring revenue into the Company, which has now meant they can employ enough people to actual make it into a useable product?

I don't care if that's what they did in a bid to save CloD from being canned, but if the revunue gained has enabled them to actually complete the project, then it's a very tactically (though not very moral) astute move.

Cheers, MP

Its the usual tactic to release a game early to get some money back. Investors want thier cut back or the repayments get a bit much.

[WOLFMondo]

Originally posted by Po-cat:

Hands up who remembers the last time a game was 100% fit-for-purpose on first release?


I can think of quite a few but none as good as IL2 turned out to be.

[M_Gunz]

The IL-2 DEMO was better than what we had.

[Messaschnitzel]

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
The IL-2 DEMO was better than what we had.

I never played the IL-2 demo, I bought the game and it worked as well as any game I bought and played previously. I did buy a a game that had no demo once, (Mechcommander 2) and that was a mistake. I figure that if a game has no demo available, then there may be a reason for that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[Gibbage1]

Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
I sometimes wonder if the release of Cliffs of Dover in such an un-finished state was a calculated move to actually bring revenue into the Company, which has now meant they can employ enough people to actual make it into a useable product?


I highly doubt it. Most dev's dont see a check from sales till MONTHS after the release. Its got to go through a LOT of hands first. First, the store, then the distributor (Ubi and 1C) and then into the Studio's hands. Each step takes a long time since people dont like writing big checks till the last moment.

What typically happens is the distributor's pay the dev's large sums of money up front, and pays out every month to keep them going. Once the game is released, all profit goes into paying off that debt. Once its paid off, THEN they start paying the dev's.

It takes millions of $$ to make a game, and not many dev's can foot the bill. I would be VERY suprised if Oleg was able to fit the bill by himself over 7+ years. Ubi and 1C must of given them some support, and finally demanded to launch the game after so many broken release dates. Thats the ONLY way 1C and Ubi could of forced a release.

[ICDP]

The sim community seems to have a blinkered black and white approach to these scenarios. The poor devs have been forced to release an unfinished product by the evil publishers. It happened with SHV and now with CoD, Ubisoft are a common denominator in both cases but this does not mean they are at fault.

As Gibbage pointed out, the devs would be given an upfront payment from the publishers to develop their game/sim. Deadlines would be set and deals would be made. If deadlines are continuously missed then the publishers eventually reach a point where their investment is under threat. They are left in a position where either they force a release or pull the plug entirely to avoid further loss. In the case of Cliffs of Dover 1C and Ubisoft elceted to release the current version to recoup some of their investment. I do not blame the publishers at all in this case. Maddox Games repeatedly missed deadlines and by their own admission had to start from scratch a few times. After six years of work we have a bug ridden excuse for a sim that will need immense work to get to a reasonable standard let alone reach classic must have status.

I have not even loaded CoD for over two weeks. Even with it running well on my system it still lacks so much that it simply isn't worth the effort.

Broken FM
Broken AI
Broken SP
Broken GUI
Broken DM
Crap sounds

Evert time I find a wow moment it is usually in the midst of a vast number of WTF ones. Now we the latest update from Luthier is that they are hiring people to work on these areas. LOL, hire people after release, good work MG.

[Feathered_IV]

I'm thinking of making a nightfighter campaign. Most of the bad bits can't be seen in the dark. Lower end users could just have models and effects turned up and get rid of the rest.

[arthursmedley]

Originally posted by ICDP:


Evert time I find a wow moment it is usually in the midst of a vast number of WTF ones.

Lol, I like this. Seems to sum up CoD in its present state nicely. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[ploughman]

CloD's a heap of promise of a turd of a sim at the moment. I can't believe how bad the landscape runs. The sky and the sea are pretty good (minus the placeholder clouds) but the land just isn't.

RoF does look great and creates a vivid and believable world in which to shoot stuff up in but the content's never really grabbed me (entirely my bag). Fill RoF with thousand horsepower plus crates and I'd be all over it like white on rice. 777 Studios, get on it.