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Friendly_flyer
05-19-2006, 11:13 AM
Hi!

A couple of quick questions:

- Where on the plane do the Wing Commander and squadron leader pennon (those light blue and red thingies) go?

- When did the RAF start using the pennnon-markings?

Friendly_flyer
05-19-2006, 11:13 AM
Hi!

A couple of quick questions:

- Where on the plane do the Wing Commander and squadron leader pennon (those light blue and red thingies) go?

- When did the RAF start using the pennnon-markings?

SeaNorris
05-19-2006, 11:19 AM
I think they are under the cockpit area, on the Spitfire and Hurricane at least anyway.

And, most of these I have seen seem to have been after 1942, but I do not have a quote for dates.

Friendly_flyer
05-19-2006, 11:27 AM
Cockpit door, then?

SeaNorris
05-19-2006, 11:37 AM
http://fboizard.blog.lemonde.fr/photos/uncategorized/spitfire.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.goldstarstockists.com/corgi/2005juldec/pic/corgi-96.jpg

And that is a BoB Hurricane, in the last one, so even before 1942.

if I am not mistaken, that is the emblems you are on about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Friendly_flyer
05-19-2006, 11:43 AM
It is indeed!

Thanks!

tomtheyak
05-19-2006, 02:01 PM
Yeah, under the canopy is the usual spot, however I have seen at least one example (a mkIX) with the pennant on the cowling under the exhaust stubs.

Taylortony
05-19-2006, 02:06 PM
It is correctly called a pennant http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif this will help you for all markings

Roundels which when and where

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/01UKAV/roundels/RAF_ROUNDELS.htm

Pennants same as staff car flags see

http://www.flags.net/UNKG07.htm

http://www.fotw.net/flags/gb-rafrk.html

Willy.
05-20-2006, 06:33 AM
From what I've read, they were a pre-WW2 thing within the RAF, that was carried forward (un-officialy) by some, but certainly not all Sqn Leaders, Wing Commanders etc.
This would explain the irregularity of their use.

Also, as per TomtheYak, the waer "mostly" found below the cockpit, but not always. another example of this is the Typhoon Mk 1a of Sqn Leader Dundas OC of No56 Sqn at Duxford in June 1942. He had his pennant above and slightly ahead of the port forward exhaust stub.

Also, Sqn Leaders often had the Sqn No., and a little pair of wings on their pennants, but not always.

So, nothing hard and fast across the board. But, I have noticed that during WW2 these unofficial pennants were quite fashionable amongst Hawker pilots, in particular those in the Typhoon / Tempest outfits.

Friendly_flyer
05-20-2006, 07:33 AM
Thanks ladds, you are a fountain of information!

I was looking for pennants for BoB-periode Hurricanes. I seem to remember only seeing them on later war planes.

Willy.
05-20-2006, 08:30 AM
Interestingly I can find only one photograph (out of many) of a Battle of Britain Hurricane wearing a pennant. That being the Hurricane of Sqn Leader Douglas Bader of 242 Sqn at Coltishall in September 1940.

I have a small theory about why...

Bader, being a pre-war RAF fighter pilot and notoriusly anti-regulation, missed the opening of hostilites due to his flying accident and therefore would also have been out of the RAF during the time when the pennants became un-official.

Then, during the BoB, apart from returning to the RAF and being at the centre of a high level and contorversial row about the running of the Battle, he also became very mediatic and photo's of his aircraft became widely spread in the newspapers, along with the then un-official pennant.

I figure that this helped make the outdated pennant fashionable "nose art" in the RAF, starting off amongst the young fellows who saw Bader as a mentor.

Of course I could be off the mark, but it ties up with all I've read so far on the subject, which is staring to mount up. I like to hear what others think about this.

Edit:- I just found anoher photo of a BoB Hurri with a pennant, that of Sqn Leader A G Miller, OC 17 Sqn North Weald c.August/Sept 1940. So that makes Two photo's so far. Not that many of the "few" and not enough to take back my little theory, at least not just yet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Friendly_flyer
05-20-2006, 04:55 PM
Are the pennants in the regular position seen on later aircrafts?

Taylortony
05-20-2006, 05:55 PM
dont believe what is being said, they were used through the war

closterman had one
park did too

so did AVM Robb

http://www.findonvillage.com/0761_the_swandean_spitfire.htm

http://decals.kitreview.com/decals/sharkattackdecalreviewrk_1.htm

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/spitfire_ix/spit_ix00.jpg

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/spitfire_ix/spitfire_ix.htm

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/Photostory/RonnieMurray...itfire/Spitfire.html (http://www.largescaleplanes.com/Photostory/RonnieMurray/1-24thSpitfire/Spitfire.html)

need i go one...that covers the war period

Willy.
05-21-2006, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
dont believe what is being said, they were used through the war

closterman had one
park did too

so did AVM Robb

http://www.findonvillage.com/0761_the_swandean_spitfire.htm

http://decals.kitreview.com/decals/sharkattackdecalreviewrk_1.htm

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/spitfire_ix/spit_ix00.jpg

http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/spitfire_ix/spitfire_ix.htm

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/Photostory/RonnieMurray...itfire/Spitfire.html (http://www.largescaleplanes.com/Photostory/RonnieMurray/1-24thSpitfire/Spitfire.html)

need i go one...that covers the war period </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't beleive what that was said?

Yes go on if you like, but try and make some sense. No one said these pennants were not used throughout the WW2 period! Just what is your point?

And a bunch of links to pictures of models and post war museum pics don't add up to squat in my book http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Willy.
05-21-2006, 08:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
Are the pennants in the regular position seen on later aircrafts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mostly...I have a bunch of wartime photo's of Tempests and Typhoons with pennants on them and generaly they are placed below the cockpit towards the front.

Like I said, they were unofficial during WW2, but gained popoularity as it went on. From what I've seen in wartime photographs they appear more often towards the end, although they are also seen early on too.

If your looking for a standard, you just wont find one. If your planning a historical skin, I'd suggest getting good photo's of the period to work with. I'd also be glad to help you with that if I have what your looking for.

Friendly_flyer
05-21-2006, 08:05 AM
I'm just in for "plausible", so what you guys have given me is more than suficient!

Thanks!