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View Full Version : Ubermann!!!! Is he invincible???



TheRealWulfmann
05-21-2005, 12:52 PM
I noticed that my officers and now chiefs that have recived their third cross (Gold) no lomger get fatigued at all. This means my having 4 torpedo men and 4 machinest to rotate and always have rested people will be a waste as 2 Chiefs with a gold cross will never need relief. Not sure this makes sense as it means one man could stay at the bridge for 2 weeks without sleeping and be in top fighting form.
Not interesting to you. well sorry, I have to do something while I am leaving Lorient and posting here kills the time in the channel!!!
Wulfmann

Mylo42
05-21-2005, 01:47 PM
Wulf,

My opinion, the whole crew fatigue thing is a good concept but it needs to be reworked. There has been some debate about whether it is fatigue or "battle stress" as Beeryus considers it. I would prefer if it would in fact represent fatigue but, my God man, a guy should be good for at least 8 hours.

I would like to see a system where a crewmen is good for 8 hours without penalty. Between 8-10 hours, he is "flagged" with a yellow "warning" which means his effectiveness is reduced by 25%. Between 10-12 hours, a darker yellow "caution" with effectiveness reduced by 50%. Between 12-14 hours, a red "Alert" with effectiveness reduced by 75%. 14+ hours, a black "Ineffective" with effectiveness reduced by 95%. Putting a crew member in quarters in effect "healing" the crew mans fatigue according to the time spent. A crew member left in quarters for 8 hours would be back to 100% effectiveness.

I do agree with the whole "fatigue is shut off" at time comp 64x plus however.

I don't know, this seems like a logical approach to me.

On a similar note (and I just think this would be cool, not that it should be implemented in SHIII), I think it would be cool if the player, as Capt. of the boat ALSO had to rest by going to his bunk and lying down. As long as the player remained in his bunk and did not make any game inputs, with the exception of perhaps time comp, his own fatigue would "heal" (the commander would heal fatigue in any time comp.). A well rested Capt. would play just like the game does now. However, perhaps a fatigued Capt. would experience a more "blurry" world about him, with the higher the fatigue level, the blurrier things get (kind of like when the periscope is being washed over with water). It would make for some interesting decisions on when a player should just simply rest, both himself, and his crew. I think it's a cool concept. Again, I certainly don't expect it.

kruckgp
05-21-2005, 01:58 PM
I don't know guys...for me, fatigue management is as simple as double clicking on their compartment. I think fatigue is a valuable part of the realism of the game--the Gold Cross eliminating it is kinda weird (I would've prefered a big reduction instead of an elimination), and without it, we'd be back in arcade waters. I'm probably one of two (there's gotta be someone else crazy, right?) who thinks the fatigue is close to right.

In the US Navy, at least according to a former diesel sub officer I spoke to, the crew rotated on three shifts; perhaps if the player could dictate who went on what shift it would solve the problem. I would dig that kind of thing--a shift roster that could be manipulated during the patrol, with "emergency" or "contact" crews for situations.

**Puts on fire-******ant suit in preparation for the flaming**

Mylo42
05-21-2005, 02:04 PM
Boooooooooooo.....hissssssss..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Just messing around kruck. I don't think anyone should be set afire for their opinions.

I like the "watch idea". Perhaps if we had buttons that we could assign watches to:

Watch 1
Watch 2
Watch 3
Contact watch.

Click on the watch and the assigned personell attend to their stations while the relieved watch go to quarters for rest. Sounds good to me. However, I still think they should have more staying power.

TheRealWulfmann
05-21-2005, 03:03 PM
I like the watch approach where one could click and the whole watch changes. When I am in 1024TC and go to crew it reduces to 32X and I can go man to man and when I am done I am ready to start again. I also agree the Ubermann is not real as being awarded a medal does not make you ammune to fatique. Still, it is fun. yes, you guessed it, I finished that patrol and started another and am in the channel again. Why not transfer? I have a second career at St Nazerine but this one is one more mission to 1942 and I will switch to a type IX and the coast of America, then I can switch bases. How is Bordeau? Which Flotilla is based there?
Well, checked New Egg for sales and am clear of the channel. Will check back in a couple hours, LOL
Wulfmann

Maj_Solo
05-21-2005, 05:14 PM
I guess everyone is confused about what the devs were thinking. Under normal cruising maybe you can get like 12 hours out of a normal person but not in a row, they always need short breaks, but this can be modeled by being able to have some more men assigned to the same duty and have this trivial micro resting being automatic. Then I imagine reloading torps is like running 4000m, you start working as hard and fast as you can and after that ..... phew! But in this game they have to reload torp 2 3 4 and 5 and 6 aaaaaand 7 cause while a convoy pass ahead you have time to fire 5 forward and at least one aft ... and after that they would definitely say PHEEEW!!!! add battle stress to that .... bout without battle stress I can image they need rest quick for a couple of hours, no, these guys get fatigued for just existing ... so it is phony and silly. There definitely is different kinds of stress, and some people might snap differently, what is it that say an experienced crew who has their heads filled with bad experiences don't snap quicker than a crew full of dumb asses who don't realize how serious the situation is they gotten into or compared with an experienced crew that not by luck but by creative work have worked their way out of difficulties, and who during this work felt and learned that the crew was strong and that they can rely on each other, they might withstand more, on the other hand if they have an experience that 25 percent of the crew snapped last time they don't have high moral cause they feel they cannot count on each other. I would love (said it before) that they start working real hard on this crew management and keep track of a very basic history for each crew member. Getting to know plus and minuses of each and from that assign duties and schemas for when they work, like a hockey coach, now be play 5vs5 now it is powerplay, now we are defensive, it is allready in the game, sailing around, on the surface, submerged, attacking with torps, being attacked, repairing damage etc, this should ofcoure be preplanned and studied by the capain and officers and you cannot have the same schema for evry boat if you want an efficient crew you need to tune it as they get their skill and promotions it also have to change. I just think more things shouls make sense in the game. Would be fun if you could script what the crew does, like when you have given the order for surface attack everyone is in surface attack mode and dont act likestupid apes but are aware, so as a captain you mark which one you want to attack and one determines the AOB and another works on the range and another works on speed and they are all familiar with the attack procedure and we will hear them shouting data and update data as they obtain them.

I wondered about the way they modeled the attack procedure in the game, it introduced and compounded the error so that one nearly always miss, that forced me to search for other in wartime acceptable methods so I started to reverse the procedure, instead I plan the attack and decide where and how I want to shoot and calculate everything before hand a little ahead and then I shoot when the situation is like what has been calculated.

This inturn lead me to (re)discover the 10-12 degree magical shot, I call it magical since somany variable have turned into constants and are out of the equation IMHO.

So I would like and aware crew that operates after routines. If the water is leaking in they repair it, if they can they ****ing yell and say so to one of the officers who yells that he is assembling a repair team and they go and help out .... if I want to I can yell back and give contraorder for some reason.

If I say reload tube 5 they should do so the dumb asses, if they can't they yell that they can and for what reason. If I have shot the bow torpedoes and I have not ordered silent running they should have the **** initiative to reload the tubes if I ordered them there and to be read for reloading tubes, if I have not ordered them there to be ready to reload they should not take that initiative themselves, even if we are not on silent running but ....... folks ...... but they could have a want to reload the tubes because they know we are attacking and we have fired torps and they are submariners and we have torps left so they could ASK PRETTY PLEASE CAN WE RELOAD COMMANDER PRETTY PLEASE just to remind me, then I maight answer NO YOU DUMB *** YOU WANNA MAKE SOME NOISE!!! HUH!! IS THAT IT!!! I would like to bark at them like Red in that 70's show.

No seriously, I would like to see more teamwork, initiative from the crew, questions asked, contraorder etc etc it would spur so much chatter onboard it would create a great atmosphere.

Same with LockOn, better AI, better eventhandling that spurs radio chatter, both sims are empty graphics shells, somehow there is no heart in neither of the sims and there so easily could be one, I am wondering if I need to write code, if they open up the sim for some LUA scripting that the LockOn people was intelligent to include in their product, then I can guarrantee you that if no one else I will be the one that writes script for an intelligent crew, all I require is that they open up for the LUA scripts to be able to play audio files, cause then UBI don't have to hire an army of actors to record all the speach, but we hopefully within the community can find germans and english and US people with good voices both older and younger to say the phrases and I also want all the first names and last names of all crew members recorded too.

I always thinks the priorities should be
1) the core of the simulation
2) audio
3) graphics

for example in the new Operation Flashpoint 2 one example of importance of audio would to sit on watch on a pitch black night on a listening post, who cares then if there is great graphics.


For SHIII this whole crew thing should be reworked, it is not just the fatigue system. And wolfpacks and so on and radio chatter with BdU, I want to feel part of a total war effort.

And this is probably not so difficult programming as it is entirely with SHIII, not that complex compatibility **** you have when you are trying to communicate with the OS and drivers and so on to get anything to show up at all on screen on all systems, this is tiny tiny programming entirely within the application so you can only but succeed, you are entirely within the SHIII "world" when you program, that is why it is so strange that it is not done since the payback would be so great, only excuse can be "out of time", better something than nothing at all.

Better they open up and get help from the community.

Anyways, just as with LockOn you find what works in a product and have fun with that, and I am having more fun again with whole new ways to attack and a new ROE that keep me alive, I bet you that this crew I have now will go far..... even if they don't know when to sleep


(holy ****, did I write this much **** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

kruckgp
05-21-2005, 07:03 PM
Maj_Solo, I didn't read what you wrote, but I just want to give you a Gold Cross for writing that much. It may be the full tax code of the United States, it may be a well-planned doctoral thesis, but one way or the other, thanks for the chuckle http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I love ya man, congrats, you've got my Man-of-the-Week award http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Maj_Solo
05-21-2005, 08:51 PM
"I have a very laaaaarge mind ...... oh God! I feel depressed" /Marvin

TheRealWulfmann
05-21-2005, 08:56 PM
If the only thing I did was write a post while my U-boat made its way out of Lorient, it would be five times that long. LOL
Wulfmann

Maj_Solo
05-21-2005, 09:03 PM
That was the exact reason I was posting earlier this evening, my base is Vilhelmshafen, but since Brest is about to get ready I sailed down and rearmed at Lorient and every time I sail out of Lorient the last month I go to this web board http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


BTW, if you get hit real hard from a DC then the boat should be black in the F7 view until light is restored so you can not overview what is happening http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif nasty!

InfectiousDust
05-21-2005, 09:27 PM
Ubermann? You mean the Ubermensch I think! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TheRealWulfmann
05-22-2005, 07:37 AM
No, I meant Ubermann!

There was a bit on Saturday Night Live years ago about if Superman had landed in Nazi Germany in the 30s instead of the USA. They called him "Ubermann, fighting for lies, injustice and the Nazi way"
That was the joke.
Wulfmann (not Wulfmensch)

HeibgesU999
05-22-2005, 08:26 AM
They should do watches like changing lines are done in video hockey games.

Someone posted an authentic uboat watch schedule, but i can't seem to find it with the search feature. I think they had a "Dog Watch" which kept the same folks from having the same long late night watch all the time.

deKoven
05-22-2005, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
They should do watches like changing lines are done in video hockey games.

Someone posted an authentic uboat watch schedule, but i can't seem to find it with the search feature. I think they had a "Dog Watch" which kept the same folks from having the same long late night watch all the time.

Sorry, but the "Dog Watch" is a common thing in navies all over the world. Far's I know there are "names" for all the watches but I only know the dog watch. I think it's a 4 hour watch starting at 4AM. It allows the watch times to advance each day so that no one always gets the same watch time.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

InfectiousDust
05-22-2005, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by TheRealWulfmann:
No, I meant Ubermann!

There was a bit on Saturday Night Live years ago about if Superman had landed in Nazi Germany in the 30s instead of the USA. They called him "Ubermann, fighting for lies, injustice and the Nazi way"
That was the joke.
Wulfmann (not Wulfmensch)

LOL!
Well that's interesting. Nietzsche, and subsequently Hitler, used to refer to the 'Ubermensch' in their writings, which translates in English to 'Overman' or 'Superman'. Oh well.

TheRealWulfmann
05-22-2005, 02:58 PM
I-dust,
I don't believe either of those guys wrote for SNL, LOL

Well I keep making more of those untiring officers but since I can leave three on duty without tiring and keep the other 2 in the crew quarters I am giving the "gold" to the Chiefs so I can have the sonar and radio men as well as torp, machine and then damage control guys immune to fatique. I will likely get the bunch killed before I am done if Murphy has his way
Wulfmann

Maj_Solo
05-22-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
Ubermann? You mean the Ubermensch I think! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ooooh, you are such a messerschmeister!