PDA

View Full Version : It's STARFORCE!



timat13flers
03-14-2005, 12:28 PM
Confirmed. A friend has scanned the retail copies at a local game store, and the latest version of Starforce is used.

I can't play this game. Cheers Ubisoft. Thanks a bunch.

Nieldo
03-14-2005, 12:30 PM
Its been confirmed for a while http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bad luck!

u2336
03-14-2005, 12:31 PM
hummmm pardon my ignorance, but what is Starfooooorce ????
And why it would not work on few PCs....???

thanks for the light up.

Nieldo
03-14-2005, 12:33 PM
http://www.star-force.com/

I think

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 12:35 PM
It's not really much depending on the PC, but rather the programs you have installed. CloneCD, Alcohol120, etc are illegal and Starforce may not run with these programs installed.

On the other hand, you cannot make a backup of the CD/DVD easily.

Nevertheless it's a pitty all customers have to live with these limitations because some people don't understand the concept, that you can pay for a product you use. Piratery is a crime.

u2336
03-14-2005, 12:36 PM
ok thanks. But I dont think I will find on their website why it is not liked by many guys of this forum.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Why would it block the installation ?

timat13flers
03-14-2005, 12:37 PM
Starforce is a Virus masquerading as a copy protection. Most users don't have a problem with it, but certain software/Hardware configurations can cause issues. In my case, my Capture equipment fails to work properly when it's installed, rendering me unable to play any game (or even Demo) where Starforce is used, because it screws my system for other uses.

Please don't accuse me of being a Pirate (Who's miffed because he can't download it). I've had this game on Pre-order for 2 months now. I thought I was safe, with this being a Ubisoft game. I've now cancelled this and Brothers in Arms, which is now clearly going to be Starforce as well. Ubisoft will regret this, you mark my words.

That's me gone. I hope you all enjoy the game, and don't have any probs.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

u2336
03-14-2005, 12:37 PM
ok thanks Capt and Tim !

KiwiVenge
03-14-2005, 12:41 PM
For how much I hate the thought of the Starforce program, it does seem that if you are not one of the unlucky few you should be alright.
Timat13flers seems to be one of those unlucky few. I have been trading e-mails with the Starforce customer service and they seem like reasonable people. I would suggest getting in touch with them and see if they can figure out a fix for you.

Quelthanas
03-14-2005, 12:45 PM
I admit this is not fair for you but don't blame ubisoft for using starforce, just blame all those who illegaly copy games, dowload trhem on edonkey and other soft like this. If they were not as numerous as they are actually no copy protection would be needed but thats not the case.

ParaB
03-14-2005, 12:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
It's not really much depending on the PC, but rather the programs you have installed. CloneCD, Alcohol120, etc are illegal and Starforce may not run with these programs installed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's bollocks. Neither CloneCD or Alcohol120 are illegal. If you can point me to ANY source indicating otherwise I'd be grateful. And I do have games with Starforce copy protection and guess what? They work fine with Alcohol120 installed... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

You will need to close virtual drives though since Starforce doesn't like virtual drive emualtors, which isn't a big deal for me.

Now please carry on with the usual "THE SKY IS FALLING"-routine. It obviously never gets old...

FlyingElvis3
03-14-2005, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quelthanas:
I admit this is not fair for you but don't blame ubisoft for using starforce, just blame all those who illegaly copy games, dowload trhem on edonkey and other soft like this. If they were not as numerous as they are actually no copy protection would be needed but thats not the case. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Starforce only causes hassles for legitimate owners. The pirates can and will crack it.

timat13flers
03-14-2005, 12:50 PM
The thieving gits can still play this game. They'll download the ISO, use Starforce N******E, and play it anyway. Where as me, with my 30 quid, am left high and dry. It's only legit users who suffer here.

Messervy
03-14-2005, 12:52 PM
Slightly OT but om Saturday I installed Splinter Cell chaos theory Demo and something happened to my system.
I am not connecting this with Starforce but I do wonder had anyone else had tsimmilar problem.
My comp suddenly went off and my RAID=0 Array was completly screwed.
I somehowe managed to rebuild it but the system is awfully slow since then. Just switching between windows takes seconds.
Anyone with some idea where to start checking my hardware?

KiwiVenge
03-14-2005, 12:54 PM
Does splinter cell use Starforce?

Quelthanas
03-14-2005, 12:56 PM
Yeah I know those ****.ng pirates will play even with the best protection but you dont understood what I mean. Just if much less poeple pirated games, such trying antipirate softwares will not be bothering honest players.

MooseNoodles
03-14-2005, 01:00 PM
Hey Meservy - have u got starforce drivers on your system?

take a look in here

Mycomputers properties
Hardware Tab
Device manager
view tab - and choose show all devices
scroll down and open non-plug and play devices
look in there for starforce stuff :P

Shado2k2
03-14-2005, 01:02 PM
ParaBellum,

Perfect post, well said

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 01:08 PM
@ ParaB

CloneCD and Alcohol120 are declared illegal by the EuropeanUnion, as their only purpose is to break copy protection and make copies of protected software. Besides the official declaration this way of working makes it illegal in most countries, especially the US.

It's not the problem of having them installed. The Problem are certain settings, memory persistent programs and registry entries, that are detectable by the software.

It's also non-sense, that StarForce doesn't work with virtual drives. It just doesn't work with some programs like Nero and versions of CloneCD that have virtual drivers included. Other legal software like Daemon-Tools works fine.

On the hardware-side, the system CAN collide with some configurations, but that is very rare.

stevenwhiting
03-14-2005, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by timat13flers:
Confirmed. A friend has scanned the retail copies at a local game store, and the latest version of Starforce is used.

I can't play this game. Cheers Ubisoft. Thanks a bunch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

COUGH Rumour COUGH
COUGH Trol COUGH

ivoloos
03-14-2005, 01:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MooseNoodles:
Hey Meservy - have u got starforce drivers on your system?

take a look in here
(...) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just did it. device manager says there's a "StarForce protection Environment Driver v6" installed. The remarks that must be made are, that (1) I don't have any idea with what game it was installed, and (2) that I don't have experienced any problems (like performanceproblems) yet.

Messervy
03-14-2005, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MooseNoodles:
Hey Meservy - have u got starforce drivers on your system?

take a look in here

Mycomputers properties
Hardware Tab
Device manager
view tab - and choose show all devices
scroll down and open non-plug and play devices
look in there for starforce stuff :P <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yep. The sucker is here-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Messervy/Starforce.jpg

I didn`t even know it. Thanks!
Now I got to find that web page where it is explained how to unninstall it!

G## D### M#####F##### Starforce!

Thank you KiwiVenge - thank you soo much! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 01:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
@ ParaB

CloneCD and Alcohol120 are declared illegal by the EuropeanUnion, as their only purpose is to break copy protection and make copies of protected software. Besides the official declaration this way of working makes it illegal in most countries, especially the US. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Neither CloneCD or Alcohol120 are illegal in the US, not in Canada either...the EU is just a hell of a mess. By law in both(Cdn/US) countries you are permited 1 backup copy for personal use. Depending on state regulations however, if you are unable to make a copy the company must provide one if the disc fails free of charge(plus shipping, etc). Copying the disc without payment is illegal(unless it's music and you live in Canada in which case it's legal..no uploads please).

You are also allowed to bypass the copy protection if you own an original, or if it causes you problems.

frog7
03-14-2005, 01:45 PM
Messervy Hang on mate iv got the same on mine...but iv never had problems before...i mean i got all the latest games like Half-life2 Doom3 Joint ops...but are you guys saying that i cant play Silenthunter3?....please let me know now so i can try do do something about it iv got a Dell pc....HELP ME PLEASE

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
I didn`t even know it. Thanks!
Now I got to find that web page where it is explained how to unninstall it!

God D@mn Mother***ing Starforce!

Thank you KiwiVenge - thank you soo much! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That should be the right one:
http://www.onlinesecurity-on.com/protect.phtml?c=55

This should be fun, I use a Promise RAID controller for my system.

MooseNoodles
03-14-2005, 01:46 PM
Mes dont be too hasty i have it too but i know i put it there. Its not all that bad for most people. People get too excited about such things. I am using nero/alcohol 120/ and 3 games that are using said protection types.

No problems here with anything I use this machine for, Ive also used nocd files for certain games i hate being forced to put the cd in the tray, and guess what? no problems with starforce drivers.

All i say is get as much varied info about it off the web as you can, take a deep breath read it all carefully, then search for views on it from other sources rather than the general public that now nothing of the application.

Then make your judgements. If you scare yourself to death like alot of people do, I will dig out some info about the latest SF and previous from the more dodgy end of the internet. They know more about it and are generaly clued up of such matters.

Also there are decent starforce tools about to remove such drivers from your machine, or you can use Starforce Nightmare which is a tool to alow you to disable certain hardware on your machine while you install if its giving you grief. *note* use that wisely if u do and for your own good of paying 40 for a game and cant use it for example.

All the best.

Silmar
03-14-2005, 01:54 PM
Removing these drivers will stop games like Pacific Fighters from working.

Messervy
03-14-2005, 01:54 PM
@Mashiki_a = Tkanks for the link. I uninstalled it the regular way. No problems there.
@ MooseNoodles and Frog7

I said before I don`t blame Starforce. I think there must be a hardware problem. I have another XP OS on a third drive and yesterday I booted from that one and I had identical issues.
Funny thing is that CPU and memory demanding programs like Reason and Photoshop work fine.
The only problem is with windows.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-14-2005, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
On the hardware-side, the system CAN collide with some configurations, but that is very rare. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What configurations? I'm about to buy a new gaming rig, and I'd hate to find that I can't use it when it arrives.

dvdWildsau
03-14-2005, 02:03 PM
theres a programm called "Starforce clean"

you can download ist from http://www.codemasters.com/downloads/?type=utility

i testet it and it works! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 02:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
What configurations? I'm about to buy a new gaming rig, and I'd hate to find that I can't use it when it arrives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does it matter? No. Any copy protection that effects a machine in a negative manner is not worth anything. 'Stealth' copy protection like this is useless...not long back when CSS was supposed to be unbeatable, SHA-1 as well; both are broken. RSA was supposed to be unbeatable...it was broken.

Bah...it's just another arms race. It only takes time.

Messervy: No problem.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 02:11 PM
@ Beeryus

Noone knows before it happens - it's like 99% of PC problems http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

@Mashiki_a
CloneCD and Alcohol are systems to make a copy of copy-protected media. That itself is a crime, except for private use. BUT StarForce as some other systems (e.g.LaserLock) are systems that are integrated into the original CD. If you copy it, you're altering software, even though you don't realize, and THAT is illegal and THAT is why both programs are illegal or at least using them in this way is. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
It's of course perfectly okay to make a backup copy for your own use, several, indeed, as long as you make sure it's installed only on one machine at one time and the software on the media is not altered. With most copy-protections this is automatically the fact, if you dublicate them, which automatically makes it a crime in any country. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BenvZijl
03-14-2005, 02:42 PM
in the netherlands its not a crime to make a copy m8, you make copies for yourself, you only may not sell them.


by the way anyone know if starforce is warned for on the cd case cause if this isn't the case then UBI is breaking some laws cause it installs a program(starforce drivers) while you haven't asked for it to install. so it can be considered as a sort of Spyware http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif i have to search for the laws in my books(i'm a law student in holland) and i have to find out if more countries have a similiar law or sorta like.

Bulwark_
03-14-2005, 02:49 PM
I've never had to deal with Starforce on my system, so I'm not sure about the effects or if I'll even suffer them. My problem is hearing about people who didn't even know it was on their system. Does the installation not inform you that Starforce is being installed? Something like that, that may cause problems for certain users, should at least let you know. Especially since the device drivers are hidden, makes it more difficult to locate the problem if you didn't know where to look in the first place. Installing without the users knowledge... shame on you Starforce.

I'm going to buy the game regardless. I mean seriously, it's too good to pass up just because of one thing we don't like. If it effects my system, I'm sure I'll find a way around it.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 02:52 PM
@BenvZijl

That's what I said. Not all of it, but glad you read the first paragraph. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Of course it is not illegal, you just have to read the installation-text instead of clicking next-next-next-next-install-ok as fast as you can. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 03:01 PM
Maybe somebody needs to make clear what this software does. Seems a lot of Bohoooo around here.

1. There is of course documentation, that StarForce is part of the installation. With the 2 SF games I have (SHOWW2 & GTR), there's a warning on the package, on the inside, on the CD in the installation procedure and in the handbook. Question is, how many people read it - not many, as it seems.

2. StarForce simply differenciates the fake-drives from the real. That's why it's a system-hooked process. There's no simple software that can check it and that's for a reason, because fake drives would not work, if you could easily identify them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

3. StarForce is merely a "driver" that is needed for the game to read the code from the CD that cannot be duplicated, yet. It's no virus or spyware, just a "driver".(and that is infact the reason why there are some problems with very odd or false installed configurations and outdated CD/DVD-drives.

4. The only thing that driver does in effect, is to read the number of the CD and compare it to the key you're given with the game.

It's nothing like spyware or something, just a driver that enables your CD/DVD to read out the Key on CD, that cannot be read by any other copy-program on the market. That's all.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-14-2005, 03:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mashiki_a:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
What configurations? I'm about to buy a new gaming rig, and I'd hate to find that I can't use it when it arrives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does it matter? No. Any copy protection that effects a machine in a negative manner is not worth anything. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm... it matters to me, 'cos I'm about to buy a computer whose sole task (at this point) will be to play this game.

I can't change the fact that the copy protection is Starforce, but with a bit of foreknowledge I can mitigate its negative effects.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-14-2005, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
@ Beeryus

Noone knows before it happens - it's like 99% of PC problems http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said that there have been instances of hardware conflicts. What I'm asking is for specifics. If it has happened, then there are documented conflicts.

Or is this just a case of urban legend: "I know a guy who had a cousin whose entire system blew up when using Starforce and no one knows what damage it can cause until it happens, and afterwards all knowledge of it strangely disappears without a trace - wooooo! Scaaaaarrryyy!"

Somehow, since no one seems to be able to come up with hard facts, I'm beginning to suspect that it's the latter.

Does Starforce de-magnetize all my refrigerator magnets and change all my TV remote control settings too?

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
Erm... it matters to me, 'cos I'm about to buy a computer whose sole task (at this point) will be to play this game.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It's more my fault for not being clear even if you posted it yourself. No matter what you do...if it is starforce, you can't do anything about it. This makes it useless, and you really can't even mitigate the negative effects until you see your machine in action; then you still will have to pour through debug logs to figure out what's going on.

Pr0metheus 1962
03-14-2005, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mashiki_a:
No matter what you do...if it is starforce, you can't do anything about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes no sense. If it's affected someone's hardware in the past, then there has to be a reason, and it must be possible to document the issue. Starforce is not some supernatural entity that arbitrarily chooses which bit of hardware it will not like upon each installation. If it has a conflict with a piece of hardware (or a hardware combination), it will be possible to duplicate the problem using scientific methods, and a list of hardware conflicts can be compiled. If that's not the case, then it's not a real phenomenon, and this is all fearmongering.

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
@Mashiki_a
CloneCD and Alcohol are systems to make a copy of copy-protected media. ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's full of so many contradictions I'm not sure where to start. Breaking copy protection is not a crime if it hinders your ability to use what you've purchased. Fair-use and all of that.

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 03:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
That makes no sense. If it's affected someone's hardware in the past, then there has to be a reason, and it must be possible to document the issue. .... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Funny that. Solving issues relating to computers doesn't always follow the scientific method. You can apply the rules to it, that doesn't mean you'll ever find out the problem since it can be specific to just 'your' computer. Nothing like having one transistor, capacitor or IC being slightly off and doing it all for you, yet everything else working fine for everyone. That leaves you screwed at the end of the day doesn't it?

Seen it happen more then once with copy protection. Ah what a lovely solution...just take that $300 mobo throw it over your shoulder and go on your way. Is that a sound solution, or do you think they'd write a fix for 1:50,000 people who have that specific config issue?

Pr0metheus 1962
03-14-2005, 03:32 PM
All I'm saying is that if there's no documentation about it - if no one is saying things like "it had a conflict with this motherboard, or with this particular chip, or with this graphics card, etc." then it's more than likely an urban legend. If the conflict happened, then it will have a history.

It's just not possible to say "well there was some conflict with my system, and I can't tell you what mobo I had or what chip, or where I bought my computer, and I can't reproduce it, but it was real". I guarantee that if that's all the evidence that can be shown, this is a non-issue.

If it's a real issue, point me to forums where I can talk with people who have had hardware problems with Starforce.

I'm a bit worried that my bull$hit meter is about to break once again - it's getting close to the danger level. I don't know how many of them I've gone through in recent years. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 03:36 PM
You still don't get it, hm?

You cannot copy this game, most games, if not any games that have a copy protection without altering the software. THAT is illegal. Since CloneCD and Alcohol120 are programs that do exactly that (they override or eliminate the copy protection), this is exactly like altering software and that is illegal, no matter what.

But you should know better:

According to Canadian Law, Copyright, Part I 3.1.h: "In case of a computer program or copyright protected data is only allow to reproduce in an ordinary course, other than by using reproductive machines, devices, software or in any case of reproduction during execution."

Using CloneCD IS using other software to reproduce, so yes, it's illegal in Canada. I'll check for US, but it's commonly known, that these rights are very progressive in the US.

Mashiki_a
03-14-2005, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
If it's a real issue, point me to forums where I can talk with people who have had hardware problems with Starforce. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with what you are saying don't get me wrong, you can check out the PC games, and hardware forums on broadbandreports.com ; a good number of people have done work with it and have experienced issues. The biggest thing is compaines don't like to publish stuff like this. Most people who don't understand why a game doesn't work well they call techsupport and get help. Those of us who know what to do go and look up the help on our own.

It's not much different the cars manufactures, if you don't know where to look for the issues with a car...you don't know what's happened or could. The difference ofcourse is they(car manfg.) are mandated by law to provide this to the public; game publisher's don't.

KiwiVenge
03-14-2005, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
God D@mn Mother***ing Starforce!

Thank you KiwiVenge - thank you soo much! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hhehehehahahahahhahohohoh
The curse worked!
*puts away voodoo doll of Messervy, along with assorted chicken parts*
Starforce will be installed on your pc everytime you start a program that is protected by it. Not just when you intall the program itself.
As a wise man said to me, it may be due to older versions of Starforce conflicting with new versions.
I think some of the time some of the problems may be due to spyware and the like, that you dont know about, messing with your system and causing unforseen problems as well. Who know, all just guess work.
Starforce people seem quite adamant that their software is solid. So if you do have problems, go after them for info as they seem quite willing to back up what they say.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 03:44 PM
@ Beeryus

But that's all there is. I never had a confirmed report of a problem with the software, that it FoxtrottUniform-ed an OS or something. Most things are just something like "It didn't work so I returned it." - no description of the exact problem, no discussion about technical issues and what was done to find the problem. So it's really hard to say anything about REAL problems with StarForce.

As long as you don't implement a mass-reproduction DVD-burner in your new rig, I doubt you'll have real problems. Just another hype about a game that didn't even hit the shelves, yet.

Delfin1941
03-14-2005, 03:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dvdWildsau:
theres a programm called "Starforce clean"

you can download ist from http://www.codemasters.com/downloads/?type=utility

i testet it and it works! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But removing Starforce won't stop your games from running?

What If I remove Starforce and then find out that Silent Hunter III does not work anymore ?

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 03:48 PM
You install it again!?

Pr0metheus 1962
03-14-2005, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mashiki_a:
you can check out the PC games, and hardware forums on broadbandreports.com ; a good number of people have done work with it and have experienced issues... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did a search for Starforce and all it turned up were a very few threads, articles and messages regarding software problems (mainly copy software problems - and stopping copying is surely what Starforce is supposed to do). I didn't see a single post that claimed Starforce caused any hardware-related issues.

I see nothing there that indicates that there's any conflict between Starforce and any hardware.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 03:49 PM
(usually the key is read out once. After the initial scan it merely does a normal scan. AFAIK you can remove StarForce then, this bad, bad, spyware, adware, voodoo, dark-side, power-hungry and virus-spilling software..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I see nothing there that indicates that there's any conflict between Starforce and any hardware. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only case I know of is with a CD-ROM from 1999..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

walsh2509
03-14-2005, 04:46 PM
So this Starforce thing that "can" depending on your the config of your PC, effect certain programs and stop you playing games like SHIII and I see one poster said, BIA too!

Is there anyway to tell before I go out and buy SHII and BIA that the software on it , this Starforce will have an effect on my PC?

I read that once these Starforce files are on your PC you can't get rid of them!

Can anyone tell me If I can run anything prior to going out and buying BIA and SHIII that will tell me if I can put SF on my PC and the games will work!

I don't want to buy them and then they won't work!

Delfin1941
03-14-2005, 04:52 PM
Before I install Silent Hunter III, I will make a backup copy of my drive, and also "Create a restore point".

Windows XP let's you do that,..so if you have problems later on you can restore your system settings to exactly what they were prior to the mess. Other then that I don't know what could go wrong.

I have Nero Burning Rom - hope Starforce won't detect that as a 'pirate' programm. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

banzai_alex
03-14-2005, 04:57 PM
Why the hell is this a problem if u dont use illegal programs? Starforce does wat it is supposed to do. Dont use illegal things and u should be alright!

CoolHand20th
03-14-2005, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silmar:
Removing these drivers will stop games like Pacific Fighters from working. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

got news for you..starforce didn't come with PF

Dominicrigg
03-14-2005, 05:11 PM
My ally is the StarForce. And a
powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.

You must feel the StarForce around you.

Here, between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that ship! Between your PC and Silent Hunter 3!

MooseNoodles
03-14-2005, 05:15 PM
yes coolhand i did notice that but wasnt going to return any comment with that one :P

120% alters the copying now does it :P heh there is more of a helping hand with that believe me. And who says its illegal to make copies of your purchased goods? go tell the countries that are allowed to do that btw :P

You all seem to be buying the product here so dont worry about it? Your cd has on it what all the others in the batch run does too, if it does not work with your hardware because of the way the drivers fored onto your system work then get around it in other ways, you have of course paid for the game.

And unfortunatley not all starforce drivers are as easily removed as certain websites with various clean this clean that programs care to tell you.

Capt.LoneRanger
03-14-2005, 05:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So this Starforce thing that "can" depending on your the config of your PC, effect certain programs and stop you playing games like SHIII and I see one poster said, BIA too! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.

The worst thing that happens on the common machine is an error with reading the code, so the game won't start. It won't formate your system drive, delete your registry or explode your CPU.

As it was stated here, most problems with StarForce occur when somebody tries to copy it - and that big one problem is, that it's not possible to copy.

If you have mass-reproduction software on your PC, the game simply won't install or run.

Again, it's a driver to read the code from the CD. Any serious problem you have with StarForce can happen to you with any installation. (Like MouseDrivers, SoundDrivers, etc.) - infact these installations are a lot more risky, as they interfere with running windows - StarForce does not.

The funny thing in this thread is the fact, that probably half of the people posting here in panic may allready have installed it allready, without noticing it at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

walsh2509
03-14-2005, 06:41 PM
As I have said , Im no techie when it comes to files and so on.

"No.

The worst thing that happens on the common machine is an error with reading the code, so the game won't start"


Are UBI saying that anyone with a DVDRW in there PC and the software that came with it, can't load UbiSoft games as Starforce would see the software and stop the game loading?

If thats the case why are companies allowed to sell DVDRW's and Software to copy the games or other software that you buy?

If I went out and bought SHIII took it home and loaded the game onto my PC, why would it not start?

Why with the cd/dvd disc in my drive would the would I get an error?

ChaytonWarrior
03-14-2005, 07:29 PM
You cannot copy this game, most games, if not any games that have a copy protection without altering the software. THAT is illegal.

Making the game not copy able without that you have to alter the software, is at least in my country so far as i know already a illegal act of the publisher. Since according the law here, you are allowed to make 1 copy of your legal game.

Also downloading isnt illegal, the guy the shares or sell it makes the illegal part, againt at least in my country.

Copy Protections, besides CD Keys, are absolute useless money wasting ****, since a "not crack able" doesnt exist and never will. What a human made can be undone by human. I am pretty sure you will find Silent Hunter 3 one day after its release already for download, wouldnt suprise me if you could already download it now, looks like several times that its a insider job.
Copy Protection are a pain and a illegal part towards the costumer who buys it and nothing else.

KiwiVenge
03-14-2005, 07:39 PM
Give Starforce a chance, if it don't work, fix it.

CoolHand20th
03-14-2005, 07:43 PM
it is Legal in the USA to make a copy of your game for your use ONLY....for backup purposes..i have copies of every game i own including UBI games...

its amazing what DVD-X Copy will do.

walsh2509
03-15-2005, 08:33 AM
Thanks for the info, though I thought that you were allowed to make a backup copy of your software, with UBI blocking that are they legally in the wrong?


As I said I have a DVD/RW and with that came software called "Power DVD"!

The Q? is, Will Starforce see "Power DVD" as "Illegal" and stop the installation of SHIII?

ps ... Power DVD is a media player, the other software that came with the DVD/RW is called "Sonic MyDVD" and that's what I use to backup my files or software!

So will Starforce see Sonic MyDVD as Illegal?

JaFO_NL
03-15-2005, 11:12 AM
(1)
If it was real life then Starfarce & co would work like this :

You invite me to your house to play a game, watch a movie, for dinner, whatever.

I enter you house, look through all the cabinets, look under your bed, through your garbage and in all your places you'd rather would have kept private. Then I notice you've got a VCR in your house. Since that VCR could be used by some people to make illegal copies of tv-shows I immediately run outside and return home ...

Wouldn't you think that's a little odd ?

That's effectively what the modern copy-'protection' does to your pc.
IMHO that is what in real life would be called 'vigilante justice'.

Who gives a **** whether or not any program I've got installed may or may not be illegal ?
It does not give Ubisoft & co any rights to search my pc for possible instances of such software.

(2) There are conflicts as the UBisoft-site itself states "this software may not function when user has certain CD-RW or DVD-RW drives"
Why do they fuel the fires of this confusion instead of giving us consumers straight answers to a simple question : will my rig run this game ?

(3) "I know of problems with a CD-rom from 1999"
There are a few Items I rarely replace/upgrade :
- my monitor
- mouse
- keyboard
- CD-Rom drive
Why ?
Because they still function perfectly and don't need to be the 'latest' model to do their job.
At 32x-speed the CD-rom drive is fast enough to install my software.

So it's obvious that given the fact that Starforce & co cause problems with 'old' drives then I'd really like to know *before* I buy this game.

(4) the big lie : you are warned that a game has 'starforce' or similar software.
So far I haven't seen any game provide sufficient warning prior to sale.
At best we get vague warnings (like the requirements listed on the BiA-site).

Note that one of the reasons that a EULA is illegal by default (in the Netherlands) is *because* it's unavailable until after the sale.
Therefor it is simply unacceptable that any warning about Starforce appears whenever we attempt to install the game as that's after the contract has been closed.

If you think such features are normal then I'll give you a blank piece of paper to sign. Don't worry about the details as I'll add them after you've signed ...

TinPins
03-15-2005, 11:19 AM
Interesting article about all this here.

http://www.bookofhook.com/Article/GameDevelopment/TheCopyProtectionDilemma.html

CoolHand20th
03-15-2005, 11:50 AM
the bottom line is this...any program that installs another program without the PC owners consent is Illegal...

bertgang
03-15-2005, 11:58 AM
I often fight against piracy in courts, and my experience teached me that.

Starforce and similar programs are useless against professional piracy; each pirate seller have hundreds of pirate cd and dvd, made cracking officially uncrackable copy protection systems, and massively printed out.

Judges and policemen are ready for this fight, software houses not.

Delfin1941
03-15-2005, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So this Starforce thing that "can" depending on your the config of your PC, effect certain programs and stop you playing games like SHIII and I see one poster said, BIA too! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No.

The worst thing that happens on the common machine is an error with reading the code, so the game won't start. It won't formate your system drive, delete your registry or explode your CPU.

As it was stated here, most problems with StarForce occur when somebody tries to copy it - and that big one problem is, that it's not possible to copy.

If you have mass-reproduction software on your PC, the game simply won't install or run.

Again, it's a driver to read the code from the CD. Any serious problem you have with StarForce can happen to you with any installation. (Like MouseDrivers, SoundDrivers, etc.) - infact these installations are a lot more risky, as they interfere with running windows - StarForce does not.

The funny thing in this thread is the fact, that probably half of the people posting here in panic may allready have installed it allready, without noticing it at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what do you mean by "mass-reproduction software "? Does it have to be "en masse" ?
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-15-2005, 04:43 PM
@ChaytonWarrior
Yes, infact this is true - it is allowed in any country to download anything on your PC. That is not illegal. But the fact is, especially in the US, Canada and Europe ANY file on your PC that you downloaded from an illegal source (e.g. that was copied against the copyright) is. So, yes, the download is not illegal, having it stored somewhere, even on your PC is, even if you didn't install it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Oh, and of course any filesharing software is, as you down- AND upload the file. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

@CoolHand20th
1.It is legal as long as the software is not altered, cause the software itself is copyrighted. That means you are not allowed to make any changes to it. These rights are a lot sharper than those to copy it for your own use. Since the copy-protections are part of the software and the programs you use to reproduce them knock the copy-protection out, it's illegal.
2. Right - that is why the warning is on the box - but if you put it this way, you also install I-Explorer, Outlook, MSM, WMP, WordPad, Calculator, SpiderSolitaire, Minesweeper, etc with windows, too!?
(You also get warned during installation http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )

@JaFO_NL
1. No. This is ignorant non-sense. Taking your example, Starforce would be like you have a Jacket with a serial number on the back and when you enter my house, you use my mirror to check the number on your back. You have no idea what StarForce does.
2. You can easily upgrade most CD-Roms (including the one from 1999) - firmware is a bless.
3. I doubt you use your mouse, monitor, keyboard or CD-Rom to read a DVD.
4. That's a problem of the reseller, not the developers. If you ask the resellers or check FAQs, it's there most of the time. It's printed on the box for sure.

@Delfin1941
It's the firmware of multi-burners that this software detects. I doubt anybody here has such a thing. But there are software-tools that simulate such drivers, as CloneCD does. That doesn't mean it will make a problem, but it can.


This is a witchhunt, not an open discussion. Man, I can feel Gallileos pain, now.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
Never thought that young minds could be so ignorant.

kilrathi36
03-15-2005, 05:18 PM
Bad move on part of UBI, it seems UBI cares more about games such as Brothers in Arms than Silent Hunter 3. They know Starforce causes problems and it has a bad track record in customer satisfaction. All their games so far did not use this protection, even the game that just shipped same time as Silent Hunter 3, Brothers in Arms does not have starforce. Yet SH3 does, that's almost like dissing SH3 from UBI themselves.

KarlLute
03-15-2005, 05:40 PM
Oh my god. i just lloked up my hardware specs and found this starforce stuff already on my computer!? I have no idea how it even got on my computer, but my machine has been working so far. will i have a problem when i try to use SH III?

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 05:43 PM
Nope, already having it on there is a good thing. Should mean your computer runs alright with it on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KarlLute
03-15-2005, 05:50 PM
thanks. I was about to run screaming into the night about it. Are there any other copy protection programs i should know about? I have been waiting for this game for so long. I would even wipe my disk so i could play it if i had to.

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 05:56 PM
I would say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Do the usual spyware and virus checks and things should be sweet.
There is way more you can do, like registry clean ups and such. Personally I would rank myself as an 'average user' meaning unless it is dead easy, easy to find out about and free, I don't do it.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Edit: I am pretty sure if the version of Starforce that comes with SH3 is newer than the version of Starforce that is already on your machine, it has no problems and it just updates it.

KarlLute
03-15-2005, 06:07 PM
Thanks Kiwi. I have never heard of this starforce stuff untill reading these forums. It does sound like bad news for some folks. I hope they perfect it so we can all just have a our fun. We shuoldn't have to worry about hidden programs crashing our machines.

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 06:10 PM
No problem Karl. I had misgivings about starforce when I first heard about it (it is not on my machine yet).
But I figure I will give it a chance, see for myself what happens and deal with it.
More than likely nothing untoward will happen. If it does, look out UBI and Starforce cause here I come!
hehehehehe
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-15-2005, 06:10 PM
You know, KarlLute, that's exactly what I mean. This is a hype, a virtual phenomenon about a problemous unbelievable complicated thing that might destroy earth or at least your PC, while most of the people here allready have games using this type of copyprotection, without ever having any problems at all.
You know, I play a lot of RolePlaying and I once read

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> "In a crowd of 10 people and more substract 40%-pts of the groups intelligence." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what this rule means, now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-15-2005, 06:16 PM
To the BIA - SH3-comparrison - a small note for your notice:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW, and virtual drives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://store.ubi.com/item.jsp?item=68206

ABILITY to READ is a BLESS. If I was you, I'd check out the StarForce installation on my system or return BIA right away, LOL.

A.K.Davis
03-15-2005, 06:28 PM
Brothers in Arms uses Safedisc 4.

Now does the fact that Ubisoft released two games on the same day, one with Starforce and one without, indicate that they were arbitrarily applying it to one game because they disrespect the game and its potential customers? Or does this indicate that Ubisoft probably knows a whole lot more about their markets and pirating of their software? Hmm...

CoolHand20th
03-15-2005, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Brothers in Arms uses Safedisc 4.

Now does the fact that Ubisoft released two games on the same day, one with Starforce and one without, indicate that they were arbitrarily applying it to one game because they disrespect the game and its potential customers? Or does this indicate that Ubisoft probably knows a whole lot more about their markets and pirating of their software? Hmm... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

personally to me..its a bad move on UBI's part..i have asked UBI to comment on this..but of course they won't...SF is a bad thing..and causes more problems then it prevents...and by not telling you it installs itself without consent...is kinda illegal....and what gets me is BIA was conceived waaaaaaaaaaay after SHIII was ever thought of...and yet its running Safedisc..which Safedisc and SecureRom has been in UBI's stable of game protection for a very long time......so why would they do this for this game?....it makes no sense on there part

kilrathi36
03-15-2005, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
Brothers in Arms uses Safedisc 4.

Now does the fact that Ubisoft released two games on the same day, one with Starforce and one without, indicate that they were arbitrarily applying it to one game because they disrespect the game and its potential customers? Or does this indicate that Ubisoft probably knows a whole lot more about their markets and pirating of their software? Hmm... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Neither protection stops piracy, takes extra day for pirates to do the work thats about it. The most effective & best thing to use is cd-key authorization when playing online, since both games have online play I don't see a problem to use that instead. If you look at track record of games protected with online auth when players go play online pirates never got around that succesfully. But protections such as starforce hurt the customer more than anyone else.

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 07:00 PM
What they need to do is figure a way to unload the drivers (without rebooting) when you exit the game.

FMJ-Gecko
03-15-2005, 08:17 PM
Starforce is not unbeatable, i have tried a few games that use starforce (downlaoded games of course, games that i would never actually buy) and there was workarounds within a month for these games and its Starforce protection.

Starforce does not prevent piracy! Plain and simple.

Starforce has been known to cause problems with legitimate users due to the way it detects hardware (and virtual) drives, it installs without your knowledge, it is bad policy.

If it stopped piracy then by all means keep developing it, but it does not stop piracy, so as some ppl have stated, it causes more problems.

And copying software is not illegal, as the software can be used for many types of copying, its all down to choice.

A lot of ppl have complained about Starforce (which wouldnt of bothered me) as it was uncrackable!..But it has been cracked already so most of the complaints are from geniune customers...StarForce is a problem...

vonPletz
03-15-2005, 09:12 PM
Has anyone even read the EULA that comes with SH3 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
I don't have the game yet, but I am curious if there is any mention of the copy protection used in the license.
Still waitng for friday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

KiwiVenge
03-15-2005, 09:12 PM
Yup, it will be in there, no doubt about it.

augie64
03-15-2005, 11:19 PM
This may be a bad thing. Im going ot be doing a review on its compatability in Windows XP pro 64 bit edition, as soon as I get the game. Unfortunatly Starforce may not get along with XP-64

I really hate to fail the game cause of this. but Ill see if it works or not.

http://www.64bitstuff.com/images/subsig.gif

Delfin1941
03-15-2005, 11:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
@Mashiki_a = Tkanks for the link. I uninstalled it the regular way. No problems there.
@ MooseNoodles and Frog7

I said before I don`t blame Starforce. I think there must be a hardware problem. I have another XP OS on a third drive and yesterday I booted from that one and I had identical issues.
Funny thing is that CPU and memory demanding programs like Reason and Photoshop work fine.
The only problem is with windows. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I don't get Messer, is why you have uninstalled Starforce, when you are now getting Silent Huner III game which will install it back on your system.

Messervy
03-16-2005, 12:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delfin1941:
What I don't get Messer, is why you have uninstalled Starforce, when you are now getting Silent Huner III game which will install it back on your system. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have some serious problems with my comp and I can`t figure out what the heck is going on.
So I went with a process of elimination and Starforce happened to be at the top of the list.
I really wonder why eh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

CoolHand20th
03-16-2005, 12:55 AM
well.....hopefully the US version doesn't have SF...one can hope and dream...

i still can't figure out UBI's thinking on this...SF causes more problems then it solves..and yet they used it on Europes copies of the game..and BIA doesn't have it at all..its using Safedisc4...so why the feck would they do it on SHIII..it makes no sense

JG27_Arklight
03-16-2005, 12:57 AM
I don't have any issues with SF on my computer.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KiwiVenge
03-16-2005, 12:59 AM
Haven't had them on my pc yet, hopefully I don't have any issues with them being there either.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Messervy
03-16-2005, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG27_Arklight:
I don't have any issues with SF on my computer.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn`t say it was Starforce. I just started there.
The whole **** thing begun with SC Chaos Theory demo. The rig just went dead in the middle of it.
Anyway I suspect an imminent major hardware failure in a future. I just haven`t decided what will fail though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KiwiVenge
03-16-2005, 01:42 AM
*works his voodoo*
*shuffles around various chicken parts*

Maybe it will be your video card. That way you can go out and buy a top of the line Nvidia card and play with no particles.
But hey, as long as there are rusticles!

NeOsHi_JrEaMeR
03-16-2005, 03:47 AM
erm well star wolves was starforce v3.. and that was cracked.. we'll see how this goes.. still waiting for the game in the EB right below my apartment tho..

aroosendaal
03-16-2005, 04:29 AM
I have issues yeterday evening I tried to install it but the protection system gave an error message that the disc code is not right. Today I installed it on an other PC and it worked. So I think there is something in my PC's hardware that starforce doesn't like.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Guess I have to wait for a solution from UBI or else wait for a download

JG27_Arklight
03-16-2005, 04:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Messervy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG27_Arklight:
I don't have any issues with SF on my computer.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn`t say it was Starforce. I just started there.
The whole **** thing begun with SC Chaos Theory demo. The rig just went dead in the middle of it.
Anyway I suspect an imminent major hardware failure in a future. I just haven`t decided what will fail though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My post wasn't directed at you Mess.

I was just speaking in general.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
03-16-2005, 05:34 AM
JG27_Arklight, I know no person who can honestly say StarForce has caused any trouble in the end.

Just the same as with any new protection that was invented, nothing more, nothing less.

kilrathi36
03-16-2005, 06:19 AM
Lol, just go search starforce issues on google, besides learning that is most trouble some and problem causing protection for customers, you will find games using this starforce were few and bad sellers.

Further, look at the SH3 forums closely there are at least 2 people who got a problem with protection, but hey believe what you want.

bweiss
03-16-2005, 07:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but hey believe what you want. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always said it was the phone company that got Kennedy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

JaFO_NL
03-16-2005, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
To the BIA - SH3-comparrison - a small note for your notice:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> NOTICE: This game contains technology intended to prevent copying that may conflict with some DVD-RW, and virtual drives. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And you still don't see the problem ?

Which ones are valid ? That's the question I want answered by Ubisoft since they seem to know that it doesn't work on all drives ...

They spell out each and every type of videocard that's compatible.
Yet they refuse to specify which drive is 100% perfect for this 'feature'.

Is this getting through ?

So ... do I waste 50 - 150 Euro on a new DVD-RW drive only to find out that it simply doesn't work once I buy SH3 ???

Oh ... and my DVD-Rom-drive doesn't have such a thing as 'user-upgradable firmware', so that's a dead-end.

Ok so my example wasn't perfect, but yours wasn't either.
Let's try again.

Suppose I enter your house and you check my references. In those references you see something like 'subject has visited a shrink'.
Do you conclude that I am criminally insane and deny me acces based on such a small hint ?

That's what Starforce does.
It ignores the fact that Alcohol 120%, CloneCD and various other programs have perfectly legitimate uses.

It's like saying SH3 is **** because it doesn't have wolfpacks ...

//
And to those smartasses that tell me to read the EULA.
The EULA is invalid *because* it's not available *prior* to sale.
Therefor it can not refuse any legal rights I've got.
And to put an even finer point on it ... it's the store that sells the software that's responsible for delivering items that perform as is to be expected.

jack010
03-16-2005, 12:49 PM
Can someone confirm for me that the US retail version is using starforce? After reading all this stuff about starforce, I'm little worry...

Thanks

Gertbeef
03-16-2005, 01:26 PM
Well I suppose I asked for it, I was in the everyone is overreacting to Starforce crowd. I installed the game, no problems. Went to run the CD check, problems.

When it starts doing it's thing is just hangs, keeps thrashing my DVD drive like crazy, but not making any progress. Let it sit there for about 15 minutes before finally giving up.

No virtual drives, no Alchol, or Daemon Tools, or anything of that nature. Just never verifying.

Extremely aggravating, and is quickly planting me in the "I Hate Starforce" crowd. So much for just hanging out at home and playing the game today!

FlyingElvis3
03-16-2005, 01:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jack010:
Can someone confirm for me that the US retail version is using starforce? After reading all this stuff about starforce, I'm little worry...

Thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have the US version and it does not have Starforce CP. Unless it no longer shows as a hidden device in the non-plug and play area.

Gertbeef
03-16-2005, 01:33 PM
Hmm, odd...I have the US version and it DOES show up in the Non Plug and Play portion. I did check beforehand and there was nothing there.

Are you checking after you ran the game? It doesn't install with it, but it showed up for me after I (unsuccesfully) tried to run the game and it went through that whole verification hoopla.

FlyingElvis3
03-16-2005, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vonPletz:
Has anyone even read the EULA that comes with SH3 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
I don't have the game yet, but I am curious if there is any mention of the copy protection used in the license.
Still waitng for friday http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The EULA is in the file named "license US". It does not mention copy protection.

FlyingElvis3
03-16-2005, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gertbeef:
Hmm, odd...I have the US version and it DOES show up in the Non Plug and Play portion. I did check beforehand and there was nothing there.

Are you checking after you ran the game? It doesn't install with it, but it showed up for me after I (unsuccesfully) tried to run the game and it went through that whole verification hoopla. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm, I checked after activation. Got to the main menu and quit. Then checked.

EDIT: Ok, this time I entered a single mission, aborted it, quit out of the game, rebooted. And there are now 3 Starforce drivers installed.

CoolHand20th
03-16-2005, 01:54 PM
so basically SF is installing itself after playing the game once..hmm interesting...anyone have a copy of the EULA that you have to agree to when installing SHIII?...because if its not in there..they are doing a illegal function to your computer without your consent

JaFO_NL
03-16-2005, 02:20 PM
It does not matter one I-ota what Ubisoft writes in the EULA, because it can not be legally binding ever.

kilrathi36
03-16-2005, 02:24 PM
US version uses starforce as well, I just got the game now after I install it if any of my programs get ***** in any way or any my drives dont work as they used to in any shape of form, it will be return time. Btw I noticed manual and even map is on the dvd, very nice.

sskip
03-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Well lads I didnt have a problem with this Starforce Thing...until...I actually got the game.

Turns out that this starforce doesnt like my pioneer dvd drive so I've now waited for years for a game which I cant play becuse the copy protection they hace dedided to use is rubbish and only hurts the people who buy it.

Go figure I only hope that they get a crack out soon and that Brothers in Arms which I have also ordered doesnt have the same protection.

CoolHand20th
03-16-2005, 02:39 PM
your safe on Brothers In Arms..it has Safedisc4...i just installed it..and re-booted..and its all clear on SF..

UBI needs to address these issues with the gaming community..and FAST..

000
03-16-2005, 04:21 PM
For anyone who wants to call ubisoft tech support their number is: 919-460-9778. The call is to North Carolina.

CoolHand20th
03-16-2005, 06:06 PM
thanks for the number http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

but what a surprise...not a 1-800 number..like most gaming companies..

Rommel332005
03-16-2005, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
You install it again!? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I read on the EB Games Web Site you can only install Silent Hunter III 5 times thanks to Starforce. Go to EB and check it out yourself.

Pinpoint2RHh
03-16-2005, 06:22 PM
It's NOT STARFORCE!!!!

But here is the EULA Licence..

LICENCE TO USE THE MULTIMEDIA PRODUCT

Please read this Licence carefully before installing the game ("Multimedia Product").
This Licence is an agreement between you, the "User", and Ubisoft Entertainment and/or its licensors and/or its beneficiaries ("Ubisoft"), which grants the User the non-exclusive and non-transferable right to use the Multimedia Product.
This Licence is valid in the United States of America.
By installing the Multimedia Product, the User undertakes to respect the terms and conditions of the Licence.

1- The Licence

Ubisoft grants the User a non-exclusive and non-transferable Licence to use the Multimedia Product, but remains the owner of all the rights relating thereto.
Any rights not specifically transferred by this Licence remain the property of Ubisoft.
The Multimedia Product is licensed and not sold to the User, for private use.
The Licence does not confer any right or title to the Multimedia Product and cannot be understood as a transfer of intellectual property rights to the Multimedia Product.

2- Ownership of the Multimedia Product

The User recognises that all of the rights associated with the Multimedia Product and its components (in particular the titles, computer codes, themes, characters, character names, plots, stories, dialogues, places, concepts, images, photographs, animation, videos, music and text contained in the Multimedia Product), as well as the rights relating to the trademark, royalties and copyrights, are the property of Ubisoft and are protected by French regulations or other Laws, Treaties and international agreements concerning intellectual property.

3- Use of the Multimedia Product

The User is authorised to use the Multimedia Product in accordance with the instructions provided in the manual or on the packaging of the Multimedia Product.
The Licence is granted solely for private use.

It is not permitted:
- To make copies of the Multimedia Product,
- To operate the Multimedia Product commercially,
- To use it contrary to morality or the laws in force,
- To modify the Multimedia Product or create any derived work,
- To transmit the Multimedia Product via a telephone network or any other electronic means, except during multi-player games on authorised networks,
- To create or distribute unauthorised levels and/or scenarios,
- To decompile, reverse engineer or disassemble the Multimedia Product.

The User cannot sell, sublicense or lease the Multimedia Product to a third party.
The User can only transfer the Multimedia Product if the recipient agrees to the terms and conditions of the Licence. In this event, the User undertakes to transfer all components and documentation relating to the Multimedia Product. He also undertakes to delete any copy of the Multimedia Product from his computer. In this event, this Licence is automatically and immediately terminated.

4- Termination of the Licence

The Licence is effective from the first time the Multimedia Product is used.
It is terminated automatically by Ubisoft without notice if the User fails to adhere to the terms and conditions of the Licence.

5- Warrantee
Ubisoft warrants to the original purchaser of its products (the "User") that the products will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for a period of ninety (90) days from the date of purchase. Ubisoft products are sold "as is", without any expressed or implied warranties of any kind, and Ubisoft is not liable for any losses or damages of any kind resulting from use of its products. Ubisoft agrees for a period of ninety (90) days (or any other longer warranty period provided by applicable legislation) to either replace defective product free of charge provided you return the defective item with dated proof of purchase to the store from which the product was originally purchased or repair or replace the defective product at its option free of charge, when accompanied with a proof of purchase and sent to our offices postage prepaid. This warranty is not applicable to normal wear and tear, and shall be void if the defect in the product is found to be as a result of abuse, unreasonable use, mistreatment or neglect of the product.

Ubisoft offers Technical Support. When you call, please be as specific as you can be about the problem you are experiencing and have the below details available:

- The name of the manufacturer of your computer system
- The brand and speed of the processor
- How much RAM you have
- The version number of windows you are using (if you aren€t sure, right-click on the my computer icon on your desktop and select €˜properties€)
- The manufacturer name and model number of your video card, modem, and sound card.

6- Warrantee Limitation
The User recognises expressly that he uses the Multimedia Product at his own risk.
The Multimedia Product is provided as is. The User is responsible for any costs of repairing and/or correcting the Multimedia Product.
To the extent of what is laid down by the Law, Ubisoft rejects any warrantee relating to the market value of the Multimedia Product, the User€s satisfaction or its capacity to perform a specific use.
The User is responsible for all risks connected with lost profit, lost data, errors and lost business or other information as a result of owning or using the Multimedia Product.
As some legislations do not allow for the aforementioned warrantee limitation, it is possible that it does not apply to the User.
7- Liability
In no event can Ubisoft be held liable for any direct, consequential, accidental, special, ancillary or other damages arising out of the use or inability to use the Multimedia Product, as well as out of the ownership or poor functioning thereof, even if Ubisoft has been advised of the possibility of such damages.
In particular, Ubisoft accepts no liability regarding use of the Multimedia Product contrary to the precautions for use set out in the manual and on the packaging.
As some legislations do not allow exemption from liability in the event of direct or incidental damages, it is possible that the aforementioned exclusion does not apply to the User.
This Licence to use the Multimedia Product grants specific rights to the User and he may have other rights depending on the laws in his State.

Sheik Yerbouti
03-16-2005, 06:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolHand20th:
thanks for the number http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

but what a surprise...not a 1-800 number..like most gaming companies.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do tell, which game companies have 800 numbers. Most of the games I have, have toll numbers to their support teams as well.

EA 650 area code
LucasArts 415 area code
Activision 310 area code

KarlLute
03-16-2005, 07:24 PM
I am not sure if it is starforce, but i installed my game without a hitch. no problems at all. Although i had starforce already on my computer from some previous game. never knew i had it till these forums.

Hawkmoon230
08-24-2005, 09:00 AM
I am not suprised at the confusion caused by this, there are so many veriables on a PC system that there is almost no single piece of softwear (except windows maybe) that will run on every single system in the world. Games seem to be more prblematic than most as they use almost every single driver on your system at the same time and lots of memory so if somthing is gonna give it will be under heavy load. Have the people with problems been in touch with ubi to see if anything can be done.

OH and before I go it is really like you going with my sister and she checks to see if you have any protection and if not she tell you you can't play cos she don't want any non-authorised copying being done!!

BipBip1980
08-24-2005, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
It's not really much depending on the PC, but rather the programs you have installed. CloneCD, Alcohol120, etc are illegal and Starforce may not run with these programs installed.

On the other hand, you cannot make a backup of the CD/DVD easily.

Nevertheless it's a pitty all customers have to live with these limitations because some people don't understand the concept, that you can pay for a product you use. Piratery is a crime.

Well, those softwares are not illegal. You can use them to backup your own CD/DVD. That's the use you make of them that can be illegal.

I'm ok to have a protection on my games, but I'm less ok when a game protection tells me what softwares I should install and which one I shouldn't install on my computer.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that this kind of software behaviour is illegal... as I didn't allowed StarForce to scan my reg base to see whant is installed on my computer.

steve_v
08-24-2005, 03:03 PM
why are u digging up a thread dated from March?
desparate?

will a mod please lock.

Beastttt
08-24-2005, 09:07 PM
why

I'm having problems with starforce disabling my como drive's burner functions
see that others are having problem with sf says that there is a problem and the more that speak up the greater voice we have to get this problem solved before people start getting disgusted with ubisoft and stop buying their products

pretty much now I will be checking out games more thourghly and if it has sf on it I will not get it

Hoatee
08-25-2005, 04:35 PM
Aye,

ain't gonna go thru seven pages of this debate but allow me to quote from 1st page :

'Starforce is a Virus masquerading as a copy protection.'

Does this explain why my anti virus programme displays 2 cookies as being infected everytime I visit the Ubi forums?

Just curious and need to know 'cos malware is driving me nuts (and causing a lot of hassle lately).

jarmstro1957
08-28-2005, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by Capt.LoneRanger:
Maybe somebody needs to make clear what this software does. Seems a lot of Bohoooo around here.

1. There is of course documentation, that StarForce is part of the installation. With the 2 SF games I have (SHOWW2 & GTR), there's a warning on the package, on the inside, on the CD in the installation procedure and in the handbook. Question is, how many people read it - not many, as it seems.

2. StarForce simply differenciates the fake-drives from the real. That's why it's a system-hooked process. There's no simple software that can check it and that's for a reason, because fake drives would not work, if you could easily identify them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

3. StarForce is merely a "driver" that is needed for the game to read the code from the CD that cannot be duplicated, yet. It's no virus or spyware, just a "driver".(and that is infact the reason why there are some problems with very odd or false installed configurations and outdated CD/DVD-drives.

4. The only thing that driver does in effect, is to read the number of the CD and compare it to the key you're given with the game.

It's nothing like spyware or something, just a driver that enables your CD/DVD to read out the Key on CD, that cannot be read by any other copy-program on the market. That's all.

1)There is no notification that StarForce will be installed on my CD Case (UK DVD) and therefore in my opinion it is too late to warn me in the installtion notes, because by the time I get to read them, I have already paid out for the game. It should be clearly stated on the packaging, together with the possible unwanted effects and the fact that uninstalling the game does not uninstal StarForce.
2)On my PC StarForce, when installed, makes my DVDROM unable to read certain DVD films. It would seem that this "driver" in fact runs whenever any CD or DVD is inserted in the drive.
3)I have never pirated anything in my life and have no time for those that do but I strongly object to this copy protection by stealth. Not everyone has unlimited access to the Net and the skills and knowledge to find, download and run the StarForce removal progam (which is imperfect and best done in Safe Mode). StarForce itself is flaky at best hence the endless revisions to the code. I suspect that the only reason UBISoft chose to use it is because it is cheap. A good game ruined by the decietful use of this copy protection system. It is indeed very virus like in the way that it works and as such should not be used.