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View Full Version : Serallan (Christian)....I hope this isn't true.



ChessBoxer_36
02-21-2006, 06:34 AM
Over at Team Compete, one of the admins has stated that before the launch of GR2 in Nov. of 2004 he was talking with you at the pre-release event in NYC and he had this to say (his name is skeetypeety btw):

"first things first ...
people need to play the game. we all saw what happened with GR 2. I will tell you this right now Christian Allen the lead dev on gr2 told me straight up to my face after the gr2 preview in NYC "I dont give a **** about the multiplayer... Multiplayer doesnt sell NEW games ... it keeps old games in peoples consoles" This was a direct quote to me outside the event. I was FLOORED and asked him to elaborate and he explained from a software sales side the object isnt to build a game with longevity. The object is to fill a temporary need and leave people wanting more. UNREAL seriously I almost smacked him in the mouth. I have never been more disappointed in someone who's JOB it is to deliver a good product."


Now I understand from a business perspective that statement is 100% on point but I thought Red Storm and Ubi were about product integrity as well as being a market leader.

I am on the fence in believing this guy because I can hear someone who is a lead designer of a game saying that because after all, its your job to sell games. But I also tend to not believe it because of the amazing work you guys have put into GRAW, and you guys being commisioned to work on Multi-player ONLY. I know you can't give us much but can you at least confirm to us that multi-player is indeed important to you and your team?

Thanks,
Chess

MassiveTurd
02-21-2006, 07:11 AM
Multiplayer looks sucky compared to single palyer game.

cknewdeal
02-21-2006, 07:22 AM
I would doubt that's true as any game to have success on Xbox needed a successful MP component to it. Most people, like me, don't even look at SP only games. What's the point?

crociato1985
02-21-2006, 07:24 AM
longevity

This is a problem for a lot of games, the console games are really expensive & they are generally too short. I hope that now with the next-gen also this parameter will grow up

P.S. I don't care much attention to MP I like more SP

theshadowkills
02-21-2006, 07:24 AM
Did you really talked to the guy?

Or maybe he was having a bad day or just drunk. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

l2egulus_
02-21-2006, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by cknewdeal:
I would doubt that's true as any game to have success on Xbox needed a successful MP component to it. Most people, like me, don't even look at SP only games. What's the point?
Totally agree with you.I don't even mess around with single player!!!

CAmoreno
02-21-2006, 10:07 AM
I don't mess around with Sp either but this time it looks like sp and co-op is going to be the games strong points!

ollie3856
02-21-2006, 10:58 AM
sadly the reality is that developers of course want us to keep buying new product, it's how they stay in business, but with the 360, things could be different.

Release a game with amazing Multiplayer content and then preiodically release new content via the marketplace, charge 5-10 bucks a pop and you end up with a steady revenue stream that still leaves gamers 'wanting more' but brings in the reddies in the meantime. Perhaps SP content is also released at a premium, leading up to some kind of a 'cliffhanger' to be resolved in the next iteration of the series that we'll all then go out and buy.

crociato1985
02-21-2006, 11:12 AM
sadly the reality is that developers of course want us to keep buying new product, it's how they stay in business, but with the 360, things could be different.

Release a game with amazing Multiplayer content and then preiodically release new content via the marketplace, charge 5-10 bucks a pop and you end up with a steady revenue stream that still leaves gamers 'wanting more' but brings in the reddies in the meantime. Perhaps SP content is also released at a premium, leading up to some kind of a 'cliffhanger' to be resolved in the next iteration of the series that we'll all then go out and buy.

The downloads that are not free are evils http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif, I mean that the cost of the games is very high & is not right ask more money to customers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. The free downloads are a wonderfull things & show the respect for the customer (that gave 50-60 euro for a game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

Are you with me guys? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

JG27_Arklight
02-21-2006, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by crociato1985:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sadly the reality is that developers of course want us to keep buying new product, it's how they stay in business, but with the 360, things could be different.

Release a game with amazing Multiplayer content and then preiodically release new content via the marketplace, charge 5-10 bucks a pop and you end up with a steady revenue stream that still leaves gamers 'wanting more' but brings in the reddies in the meantime. Perhaps SP content is also released at a premium, leading up to some kind of a 'cliffhanger' to be resolved in the next iteration of the series that we'll all then go out and buy.

The downloads that are not free are evils http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif, I mean that the cost of the games is very high & is not right ask more money to customers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. The free downloads are a wonderfull things & show the respect for the customer (that gave 50-60 euro for a game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

Are you with me guys? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Development time is not free.

It's not like the downloadable content is created before release and put on the sidelines so they can charge for it later if they need too. lol

Game programmers do not exactly get rich making these products. They have to charge for extra content because it takes them time to create it.

I have no problem paying for downloadable content if it is content I would like to see in the game.

On a side note, why would the Lead MP Designer say that about the MP aspect? That makes about as much sense as a fart in a spacesuit.

Serellan
02-21-2006, 12:17 PM
Uhhh...wow, that one has ME floored.

First off, ask anyone that has talked to me from the community, or at E3. Does that sound like something I would say?

I am the Lead MP Designer on GRAW 360. You have seen the work we put directly into the Multiplayer game, with the customizable game mode system, character identity system, etc, etc. There are whole previews at Gametrailers.com, IGN, Gamespy, etc, just on Multiplayer. Based on this, do you think we feel MP is an important part of the game?

Red Storm and Ubisoft are dedicated to providing a quality experience for ALL players, SP or MP, but Ghost Recon as a franchise has always has a huge MP component. GR1 was delayed in production specifically so that it could be released with Live (and even had exclusive Live content)! Island Thunder, GR2 and Summit Strike had a ton of gametypes and maps release for FREE, specifically for MP players (and a lot of that content came from myself and other developers putting in extra hours to get it out to the fans). Now, on GRAW 360, we have an entire team dedicated just to MP (over 50 people full time). Does that sound like we don€t care about MP?

I will give the benefit of the doubt, maybe someone took something I said out of context, and I am sorry he misunderstood my feelings. But I can assure you, that is not reflective of my feelings toward MP. I'll leave it at that.

Calbox
02-21-2006, 12:21 PM
I will not buy a game that doesn't have replay value(MP). Once you're with sp its game over.

I wont pay $60 for a sp 12 level game.

ollie3856
02-21-2006, 12:23 PM
The downloads that are not free are evils http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif, I mean that the cost of the games is very high & is not right ask more money to customers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. The free downloads are a wonderfull things & show the respect for the customer (that gave 50-60 euro for a game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

Are you with me guys? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

I agree that games are more expensive, for us and for the developers, so I think we'll likely see less free DLC and I actually have no problem with it, provided the 'premium' DLC is of the highest quality. As arklight said, development time is not free, we've been lucky in the past to get such a lot of free DLC for the GR franchise, I hope it continues, but am happy to pay for top notch content that truly expands the game (i.e. I dont want to pay for a revamped map/skin/gametype from an older game, that should be free, but give me a new map, new weapons, skins etc and I'll shell out some points for 'em)

GeorgeW2004
02-21-2006, 12:43 PM
I can tell you right now what I do with games that have a good single-player campaign and lackluster multi-player - Rent 'em.

Shishkarob
02-21-2006, 12:43 PM
Multiplayer is the same as it has been. They didnt do something stupid like halo and decide to change the thing from the toes up, all they did is made it look better and added some new guns. Makes me happy. Plus the single player is actually worth playing...In the old games it was the same as the multiplayer just with fake people and tanks.

NYR_32
02-21-2006, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Serellan:
First off, ask anyone that has talked to me from the community, or at E3. Does that sound like something I would say?
No it isn't something you would say. For those who don't know I was at the NY event, and at E3 2005. Like you said, hopefully someone just took something out of context.

cobaka
02-21-2006, 01:26 PM
I think maybe your "short answers" fried his memory.

MikeJW
02-21-2006, 01:39 PM
IMHO devs now a days pay too much attention to MP. It seems all the focus now is on MP.

Moe_14_1990
02-21-2006, 02:05 PM
because it's the new big thing.. I mean once you're done with SP, you got a whole new thrill waiting for you in MP online... it's a different feel to shoot at a player whos 1000 Miles away in another country, than it is to shoot at an enemy AI...

I still think that SP should be first priority, unless it's more of a MP type of game(halo..)..

But i think GRAW will have excellent SP with lots of replayablity, this is next-gen.. so things are gonna get alot better..

StrikerD
02-21-2006, 03:40 PM
yeah, I knew Serellen wouldn't say something like that about multiplayer, it totally rocks in every Ghost Recon game. Although there are certain flaws in GR2 that I don't like (spawn campers) I'm sure RS has always put mp at priority. And at least they post in threads like this to get things straight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ChessBoxer_36
02-21-2006, 03:50 PM
Ok, thank you VERY much for responding Serellan. I appreciate your honesty. I had the exact same reaction as you when I read that and I had to know. Im guessing he either misinterpreted you or is a complete liar.

Chatlistic
02-21-2006, 03:56 PM
Multiplayer is a big deal to me, but when I don't feel like playing against anyone,a SP portion is nice. I usually play a little campaign in Halo 2 before I get online.However, in GR2SS...........you know, the campaign is just boring; so I have to hope online right away with that.

ghostleader09
02-21-2006, 07:35 PM
hey serralian or whatever ur name is, since i now know u respond to these boards, can u plz just plz tell me some info on the ps2...just a few questions because no offense but u are treating the ps2 players like ****..believe me i really want a 360 and im tryin to get one bout for now im with ps2 so.....

1) Do u still get to customize options for ps2 MP

2) Is their a drone, or is it pretty much just a radar

3) Honestly, are the graphics better than GR2 on ps2 cuz u guys really disappointed me with that game and the only big hit lately on ps2 has been BF2:MC and its a perfect time for u guys to get ur fans back on this console


thanks,
ghostleader09

ghostleader09
02-21-2006, 07:41 PM
o and have u put co op online for ps2 or did we get screwed again?

yarsrvenge
02-22-2006, 08:21 AM
One way to keep people from playing a multiplayer game is to have a problem with RED X errors during inline matches and never acknowledge or fix the problem.

I really hope GR3 does not suffer the same fate.

soultaker264
02-22-2006, 09:07 AM
Hello Serellan, My GT on Xbox is UWS Airb0rne82 (I run with the clan United We Stand on WWG and EC)and I feel that there is no game out there that even comes close to any of the GR games. MP or SP. Keep up the good work and thanks for all the FREE DLC's that we have gotten with all the GR titles.


Originally posted by Serellan:
Uhhh...wow, that one has ME floored.

First off, ask anyone that has talked to me from the community, or at E3. Does that sound like something I would say?

I am the Lead MP Designer on GRAW 360. You have seen the work we put directly into the Multiplayer game, with the customizable game mode system, character identity system, etc, etc. There are whole previews at Gametrailers.com, IGN, Gamespy, etc, just on Multiplayer. Based on this, do you think we feel MP is an important part of the game?

Red Storm and Ubisoft are dedicated to providing a quality experience for ALL players, SP or MP, but Ghost Recon as a franchise has always has a huge MP component. GR1 was delayed in production specifically so that it could be released with Live (and even had exclusive Live content)! Island Thunder, GR2 and Summit Strike had a ton of gametypes and maps release for FREE, specifically for MP players (and a lot of that content came from myself and other developers putting in extra hours to get it out to the fans). Now, on GRAW 360, we have an entire team dedicated just to MP (over 50 people full time). Does that sound like we don€t care about MP?

I will give the benefit of the doubt, maybe someone took something I said out of context, and I am sorry he misunderstood my feelings. But I can assure you, that is not reflective of my feelings toward MP. I'll leave it at that.

Mirashka
02-22-2006, 09:18 AM
That Red X sure was a strange problem. My friends and I never received it once but I know a number of people did receive it. I hope since they are using a new engine they won't have the same engine. That said I remember getting the dirty disk error with OGR on my first Xbox though I had replaced the system by the time GR 2 came out.

Shishkarob
02-22-2006, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Serellan:
Uhhh...wow, that one has ME floored.

First off, ask anyone that has talked to me from the community, or at E3. Does that sound like something I would say?

I am the Lead MP Designer on GRAW 360. You have seen the work we put directly into the Multiplayer game, with the customizable game mode system, character identity system, etc, etc. There are whole previews at Gametrailers.com, IGN, Gamespy, etc, just on Multiplayer. Based on this, do you think we feel MP is an important part of the game?

Red Storm and Ubisoft are dedicated to providing a quality experience for ALL players, SP or MP, but Ghost Recon as a franchise has always has a huge MP component. GR1 was delayed in production specifically so that it could be released with Live (and even had exclusive Live content)! Island Thunder, GR2 and Summit Strike had a ton of gametypes and maps release for FREE, specifically for MP players (and a lot of that content came from myself and other developers putting in extra hours to get it out to the fans). Now, on GRAW 360, we have an entire team dedicated just to MP (over 50 people full time). Does that sound like we don€t care about MP?

I will give the benefit of the doubt, maybe someone took something I said out of context, and I am sorry he misunderstood my feelings. But I can assure you, that is not reflective of my feelings toward MP. I'll leave it at that.
Well, that made me happy.

WWGChampion
03-02-2006, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by crociato1985:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sadly the reality is that developers of course want us to keep buying new product, it's how they stay in business, but with the 360, things could be different.

Release a game with amazing Multiplayer content and then preiodically release new content via the marketplace, charge 5-10 bucks a pop and you end up with a steady revenue stream that still leaves gamers 'wanting more' but brings in the reddies in the meantime. Perhaps SP content is also released at a premium, leading up to some kind of a 'cliffhanger' to be resolved in the next iteration of the series that we'll all then go out and buy.

The downloads that are not free are evils http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif, I mean that the cost of the games is very high & is not right ask more money to customers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. The free downloads are a wonderfull things & show the respect for the customer (that gave 50-60 euro for a game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)

Are you with me guys? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact is that the gaming industry has not seen market growth in price of the games in over 10 Years. Now that the XBOX 360 and other Next Gen Consoles are coming out they have increased about $10.00 from the past 10 years average price of $50.00. Name me another BILLION dollar industry that has came even close to the LOVE that the GAMING INDUSTRY has shown to the GAMERS. Then look at the average cost of production of a HIGH QUALITY GAME...MILLIONS. I think UBI uses their own engine software for GRAW & that had to cost a bundle to create. The engine that GOW uses cost about $400,000.00 - $750,000.00 plus 3% - 7% of your sales. I think it is called Unreal Engine. The point is guys and dolls...YES chances are there will be FREE DOWNLOADS and PAID DOWNLOADS.

I am amazed that the Game Developers still have not found a true source to making money after the sale of the game. But that will change in the near future. Yeah they will make more money...BUT the gamers will get more than they ever dreamed about getting from a video game. The future of gaming is coming...one contract at a time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

WWGChampion
03-02-2006, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by ChessBoxer_36:
Over at Team Compete, one of the admins has stated that before the launch of GR2 in Nov. of 2004 he was talking with you at the pre-release event in NYC and he had this to say (his name is skeetypeety btw):

"first things first ...
people need to play the game. we all saw what happened with GR 2. I will tell you this right now Christian Allen the lead dev on gr2 told me straight up to my face after the gr2 preview in NYC "I dont give a **** about the multiplayer... Multiplayer doesnt sell NEW games ... it keeps old games in peoples consoles" This was a direct quote to me outside the event. I was FLOORED and asked him to elaborate and he explained from a software sales side the object isnt to build a game with longevity. The object is to fill a temporary need and leave people wanting more. UNREAL seriously I almost smacked him in the mouth. I have never been more disappointed in someone who's JOB it is to deliver a good product."


Now I understand from a business perspective that statement is 100% on point but I thought Red Storm and Ubi were about product integrity as well as being a market leader.

I am on the fence in believing this guy because I can hear someone who is a lead designer of a game saying that because after all, its your job to sell games. But I also tend to not believe it because of the amazing work you guys have put into GRAW, and you guys being commisioned to work on Multi-player ONLY. I know you can't give us much but can you at least confirm to us that multi-player is indeed important to you and your team?


Thanks,
Chess

WoW...wOw...WOW.

I have a hard time understanding why he would say that...IF he did say that to you there is only about a .00000000000000000000001% chance it was TRUE. But this sounds more like another gaming site and/or gamer from another gaming site pushing buttons.

All in all it makes no sense and I dont buy it.

Mr. Allen has been in the industry longer than most people here have been gaming. Comments like that are not made to GAMING SITES or the MEDIA. If they are made they are behind closed doors.

But this topic really did not need to be posted. Not poking a stick at you man...Just saying that common sense should tell you that UBI and other Leading Game Developers are dedicating large crews just for the MP side of the games. The future of gaming will only grow thanks to the MP side of the game. Also the comment on the developers not wanting a game to last...LOL...The fact is that gamers might keep a game b/c it is really cool...BUT as soon as the new game comes out the old game will just gather dust for the majority of gamers. If the game is good enough to last a full year. That means that is has out sold any 6 month title release that NEEDS another title to keep the gamers playing. It does not matter how good the game is...It will not keep more than 35% of the orginal buyers playing after a year. Games just like songs...get old after playing, playing, playing, playing and oh yeah playing them over and over.

SIMPLY PUT......This is just CrAzY talk and not even close to being accurate. If it was said by him to me, my reply would have been something like...OH yeah I'm sure he said it, right after he gave you the keys to his car and the title to his sweet crib...lol..LOL..lol.

GR3..is on the way...I am already wanting GR4. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

TexasMerQ
03-02-2006, 01:25 AM
I will reaffirm that Serellan most likely said nothing of the sort. I met him and some of the other GR2 team at the UbiSoft Gamer Event in Houston right before GR2 was released in October 2004. They were very enthusiastic about the product and you could tell most of them wanted to play the multiplayer gametypes as much as if not more than all the people who came to check it out. If he really didn't care about the multiplayer he wouldn't be in his position and I'm sure the game wouldn't have been delayed for product testing.

In regards to Free/ Premium DLC I have no problem with either as long as it's a game I plan to play and support. For all the Tom Clancy title's it's pretty much a given that I am going to get them and support Ubi Soft in that manner because for every premium DLC there are probably 5 free ones. I personally waited for all the Halo 2 ones to become free mainly because I don't like dealing with a lot of people there who take it too seriously.

SG_VintageGamer
03-02-2006, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by crociato1985:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">longevity

This is a problem for a lot of games, the console games are really expensive & they are generally too short. I hope that now with the next-gen also this parameter will grow up

P.S. I don't care much attention to MP I like more SP </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There's a problem with video games nowadays.

I STILL play my Super Nintendo games. In fact, I JUST finished going through Super Metroid.

If anything, this made me buy more Metroid games. I would love it if all the games I buy would last me as long as Zelda, or Metroid, or Donkey Kong Country. I would STILL BUT THEM because that means I ALWAYS have something to play. It's pitiful when I sit and look at my Xbox library and only want to play a couple games out of all the games I have, whereas with SNES, I want to play ALL of them.

Next-gen needs to step it up. The video-game industry is already alienating a lot of it's long-time supporters by focusing on ONLY multiplayer. Was I the only one who returned Halo 2 because the campaign blew? If I am, then people need to open their eyes and see that a game is not only multiplayer. Multiplayer is SUPPOSED to be secondary. or, at least, it was.

Dom211
03-02-2006, 12:29 PM
it does seem like more and more that they go for making money rather than give you a game that will last more than a year.

just look at the xbox GR's...

OGR-nov 2002
GRIT-aug 2003
9 months inbetween...

at least they waited over a year to make another..

GR2-nov 2004
GR2:SS-Aug 2005
look at that..9 months again...

would have been 3 months if not for the delay..
GRAW-mar 2006 (was originally for nov 2005)
so would it be good to guess that in 9 months we should expect...
GRAW: (name)-Dec? 2006
maybe just in time for christmas...bet that would make some money.

i'm just saying let me get my money's worth out of a game before it's time to get the new one.