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W-r-a-i-t-h
03-15-2004, 05:15 PM
The makers of this game claim to have talked to professionals that deal with firearms.
So when are they going to get the gun recoil to act like it does in real life? I have post this before but did not see them do anything about it. I also post info and videos with it, but they still have not fixed it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

M4
http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/trip04/m4mre.avi

MP5
http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/trip04/mp5ras.avi

Aug
http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/trip04/aug.avi

Once again please at least go to a gun range and rent a gun, or get the correct info before you go and try to make a realistic game.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[This message was edited by W-r-a-i-t-h on Mon March 15 2004 at 08:37 PM.]

W-r-a-i-t-h
03-15-2004, 05:15 PM
The makers of this game claim to have talked to professionals that deal with firearms.
So when are they going to get the gun recoil to act like it does in real life? I have post this before but did not see them do anything about it. I also post info and videos with it, but they still have not fixed it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

M4
http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/trip04/m4mre.avi

MP5
http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/trip04/mp5ras.avi

Aug
http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/trip04/aug.avi

Once again please at least go to a gun range and rent a gun, or get the correct info before you go and try to make a realistic game.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[This message was edited by W-r-a-i-t-h on Mon March 15 2004 at 08:37 PM.]

Philipz
03-15-2004, 05:19 PM
The list of problems with this game continues to grow. Your issue continues to pushed further down list if not off it.

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/phz/images/fritz_nomad_019.gif

DayGlow
03-15-2004, 05:20 PM
are you compensating for recoil by pushing down on your mouse while firing. I like the fact the game doesn't do it for you as it adds skill to firing the weapons.

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W-r-a-i-t-h
03-15-2004, 05:25 PM
The fact is I own a M4 and it does not kick and miss like the game does. I know this will get pushed down the list but at least I try.

DayGlow
03-15-2004, 05:40 PM
I'm interested in how you think this should be handled. Should the gun be stable as in your ingame avitar automatically concepates for the recoil, or should it be up to the player, as it is now, having to actively push down on his mouse to keep it on target?

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PxRGrimJack
03-15-2004, 05:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by W-r-a-i-t-h:
The fact is I own a M4 and it does not kick and miss like the game does. I know this will get pushed down the list but at least I try.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, I dont own one, but I've fired them more than once....and I was taught to adjust to the recoil as I fired

so guess what? I do the same ingame as I did on the firing line...I ADJUST (and hit my target most of the time)

http://home.comcast.net/~mgirten/GJSIGTWL.jpg

W-r-a-i-t-h
03-15-2004, 06:07 PM
No it should not be automatic, but the recoil they have on alot of the guns is to much. Also, the auccuracy is off on the guns too. With the gun on single fire it should hit dead on each time.(when you hold still)

Its a good game, but it just bugs me to see the guns fire like that. I am sure you would feel the same if you fired alot of the guns in real life.
Would be nice to see the run speed change when you carry bigger guns.

50 yards away with M4 rapid single shot fire. This was the first time at the range with this guns and I did not use cardboard behind it. (Makes the paper move all around when you hit it)

pic (http://mrsdriverseducationworld.homestead.com/files/50yrdHead.jpg)

njcl
03-15-2004, 06:16 PM
i dont care how guns react in reallife,its hard enough to even get a bead on a bad guy nevermind deal with a gun that kicks 12 inches into the air.spoils it 4 me......... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.freewebs.com/njcl/Untitled.JPG

Rogue Agent
03-15-2004, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DayGlow:
are you compensating for recoil by pushing down on your mouse while firing. I like the fact the game doesn't do it for you as it adds skill to firing the weapons.

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_"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, I'm not a big man." Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives _
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http://www.lo-mac.com/faq.php
_I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft._
__________________________________________________ _________________________________________<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I have to totaly agree with dayglow on this one. If we have the game do everything for us then skill will have no meaning. The Famas Assualt rifle is a perfect example. Its rate of fire is awsume but takes lots of skill to control the recoil. Only the skilled players own with the Famas.

MindlessOath
03-15-2004, 06:57 PM
the guns in this game are totaly bogus.. just wait for the real mods.

http://www.tacticalcenter.net/mindlessoath/sig_new.jpg (http://www.tacticalcenter.net)
downloads: http://www.tacticalcenter.net/dl.php
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Magn
03-15-2004, 07:45 PM
I'll have to agree with DayGlow, the others who agree, and their line of reasoning. I like the way it is. However, I do agree that the stability values for the guns are, as it's been said, "bogus." From what I read, players tend to ask for the recoil to be lower, because that's the way it is in real life.

In my opinion, it would make the game a little too easy. If select assault rifles were to get a stability increase, I would think that all the other guns may have to also in order to keep the balance (now whether or not you think the weapons are balanced is up to you). But the way I think, the guns are pretty balanced already, so if an assault rifle gets more stability, then the submachine guns and the rest should also. The problem is, many of them are already very stable as it is, which creates several problems:

Very stable guns make the game too easy.
If stability is maxed, should other stats be raised to compensate?
Should these changes favor realism or balance?
Et cetera, et cetera.

Honestly, I don't think the game developers will make any changes, so a mod will probably be your best bet. But if there is a mod, I for one am not likely to download it if it's anything like the acclaimed "NATO" mods of Rainbow Six and Rogue Spear...but that's a different topic.

-Documn

The-Pizza-Man
03-15-2004, 08:31 PM
Well this is a rather controversal topic. I was originally in favor of keeping the recoil the way it is. However, some guns, notably the M4 have recoil that is totally out of line with the other guns. Its all relative you see. If all guns had a recoil caluculated on the actual physical factors involved ie. the round type, barrel length, muzzle brakes, weight, rate of fire etc. Then you'd end up with recoils that were all relative to each other in a realistic way no matter what scalar you put on recoil. The same should be done for all of the stats. Example, recovery, you have a few factors that are determinent in the recovery or quickness of aiming of a gun such as overall length, weight, grips and sighting sytems. For instance the P90 should have a very fast recovery, because:

A. Very light
B. Very compact
C. Has a built in reflex sight

So we put this sort of formula onto the recoil values and compare. Lets start with the G36k and the M4.

They both fire the same round out of a similar length barrel so there is no difference in that area.

They are both reasonably light, around 6 pounds.

Rate of fire is similar around 700-850 rounds per minute.

So you should end up with recoil ratings that are almost the same. In game the story is very different. Controlling the G36K in game is no problem at all, yet it is almost impossible to fire the M4 accurately full auto. So the question isn't should the recoil be reduced or not, it is should the relative recoils be altered to better reflect reality and/or player preference.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/johndenman/Motoko_Shooting_Small_Low.gif

ihatetologin
03-15-2004, 08:33 PM
I think the game is mostly great as it is.

I've fired a mp5sd and a ump45 among
others and if anything the ump needs a little
more kick in the game. But the mp5sd is
very stable in game, so just use that.

Anyway, those videos sure were cool. Reminds
me of the ones included with Covert Ops.

If you're ever in DC go visit the FBI building.
When I went they let you watch an agent
fire a 10mm mp5. You also get to see a little
of the firearms collection and a dog cage
made out of cocaine.

DayGlow
03-15-2004, 09:36 PM
i don't like the idea of changing recoil for game balance. If anything it should be to reflect the actual gun.

__________________________________________________ _________________________________________
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"It takes a big man to admit he is wrong, I'm not a big man." Chevy Chase, Fletch Lives
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I am not an employee of Eagle Dynamics nor Ubisoft.
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Eur0.
03-15-2004, 11:17 PM
there are some guns that dont offfer nearly as much recoil per shot as is depicted in the game. I shouldnt hav to pull my mouse down when firing an mp5 pdw single shot, the recoil is minimal and is directed straight back to the stock and butt, not up and out lik eit is portrayed in the game. It's not just the PDW, it's many of the other weapons. It seems like they only got the recoil on the LMG's correct, because they assumed most people wouldn't use them anyway, and offering realistic stability in an AR would make the game cheap. Oh well, take what you're given, or don't get the game. the recoil was the same in the demo, and I'm sure you didn't pay for that.

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/A11Eur0/Signatures/Eur0rx8sig.jpg http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/A11Eur0/Signatures/3980.gif

teebus
03-16-2004, 01:01 AM
Geesh... I can tell you that any H&K weapon (bar perhaps the G3A3)recoils FAR too much in the game. The G36 and PSG-1 might as well be called something else on the game, but you gotta remember than they have to balance "realism" with gameplay (and weapon balance).

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Jackal-.
03-16-2004, 02:23 AM
Still i think the G36ke is perfect for me though.

Gunny Highway
03-16-2004, 04:03 AM
Anyone notice that the guns used in the videos have a handle, and that makes alot of difference when shooting any rifle/smg, the guns in rvs don't have handles (RIS).

Just wait for the SDK and mods appear, but with everyone wanting their personal adjustments/demands to the physics of the game, will anyone ever be happy?

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gunny/gunny.jpg

teebus
03-16-2004, 08:56 AM
A handle (RIS bar) can reduce the recoil of a weapon, however, it does make actually aiming the weapon extremely difficult--&gt; The dudes on those videos were just showing off- they would never attack anybody like that! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The G36 is very easy to control without a handle. I must say, though- it is a common misconception that weapons with shorter barrels recoil less. Perhaps this is true for some, but the G36K (Kurz) has more felt recoil than the G36. Similarly, the XM8 (Carbine) has slightly stronger recoil than the XM8 Sharpshooter! Just a thought. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Jackal-.
03-16-2004, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyHighway77:
Just wait for the SDK and mods appear<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not smart to wait to the next century. ^^

Gunny Highway
03-16-2004, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackal-.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyHighway77:
Just wait for the SDK and mods appear<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not smart to wait to the next century. ^^<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, yee of little faith...

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gunny/gunny.jpg

teebus
03-16-2004, 03:49 PM
Oh... And BTW- the AUG in the game does have a RIS handle- doesn't help much with its recoil!

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Gunny Highway
03-16-2004, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by teebus:
Oh... And BTW- the AUG in the game does have a RIS handle- doesn't help much with its recoil!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea it's a natural part of the regular Steyr AUG. Anyway single fire, double tapping is the way to go....

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gunny/gunny.jpg

teebus
03-16-2004, 04:15 PM
Well... After using the Steyr AUG in real life, I can't say I like tha handle! Much prefer my humble G36. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Gunny Highway
03-16-2004, 04:23 PM
Havn't noticed you like the g36 teebus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I prefer a Diemaco C8A2 (Colt M4A?) with regular handle and maybe a reddot sight attached, haven't had the oppertunity to try any of the G36 versions yet.

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gunny/gunny.jpg

Usberet
03-16-2004, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackal-.:
Still i think the G36ke is perfect for me though.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry to burst your bubble but there is no such thing as G36ke. A G36E is a full lentgh G36 with non-foldable stock. The G36k is a slightly shorter G36 with a foldable stock. The G36C is a very compact version about the size of an ump.


About recoil, I agree with the first poster its too much. This game favors balance and "character" as some have put it over realism and truth. Oh BTW the sounds suck too.

edit: @ gunny yeah its the Canadian Version of the M16/XM117 series I believe.

Gunny Highway
03-16-2004, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Usberet:
sorry to burst your bubble but there is no such thing as G36ke. A G36E is a full lentgh G36 with non-foldable stock. The G36k is a slightly shorter G36 with a foldable stock. The G36C is a very compact version about the size of an ump.


About recoil, I agree with the first poster its too much. This game favors balance and "character" as some have put it over realism and truth. Oh BTW the sounds suck too.

edit: @ gunny yeah its the Canadian Version of the M16/XM117 series I believe.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The G36KE is the Export version of the G36K and lacks a built in reddot sight...I guess I just re-inflated Jackel's bubble http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Actually the one in the game is the G36KE when you look at the model, but when you see through the scope it's a reddot scope that doesn't excist on that version, go figure...

And the XM-177 Commando is the Colt Car-15 not the M4.

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gunny/gunny.jpg

[This message was edited by GunnyHighway77 on Tue March 16 2004 at 03:54 PM.]

Squarepushr
03-16-2004, 04:59 PM
go back to the videos watch m4 that handle just converts vertical instability to to horizontal see him sway the angle of the camera doesnt really show the sway from left to right

teebus
03-17-2004, 01:08 AM
That is what I was saying about the difficulty of aiming using a handle!

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

KamisoriTenno
03-17-2004, 01:19 AM
Ok, I own a SVD. I can hit everything with it but my friend can't even hold it straight. Guns handle from person to person different. i can't shoot a Deagle without making a backward flip but my friend is shooting with it like it's a water pistol.
I'm not a realistic mode fanatic and the i like the guns how they are in the game...besides the CZ, what monkey was pi$$ing in the guys head when he mput this one in the game.
besides blablablaspammyspamspam...it's just a game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Usberet
03-17-2004, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GunnyHighway77:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Usberet:
sorry to burst your bubble but there is no such thing as G36ke. A G36E is a full lentgh G36 with non-foldable stock. The G36k is a slightly shorter G36 with a foldable stock. The G36C is a very compact version about the size of an ump.


About recoil, I agree with the first poster its too much. This game favors balance and "character" as some have put it over realism and truth. Oh BTW the sounds suck too.

edit: @ gunny yeah its the Canadian Version of the M16/XM117 series I believe.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The G36KE is the Export version of the G36K and lacks a built in reddot sight...I guess I just re-inflated Jackel's bubble http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Actually the one in the game is the G36KE when you look at the model, but when you see through the scope it's a reddot scope that doesn't excist on that version, go figure...

And the XM-177 Commando is the Colt Car-15 not the M4.

Tue March 16 2004 at 03:54 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


really? I never knew about that G36ke, hm.

Anyway on that Colt thing the XM117 was the really the first rendition of the Colt M4 but it was just an M16 with a shorter barrel.

Gunny Highway
03-17-2004, 06:11 AM
Info on the guns:
world.guns.ru (http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm)

G36 versions (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as14-e.htm)

M4 & M4A1 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as17-e.htm)

Colt CAR-15 / XM-177 Commando (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as50-e.htm)

Diemaco C7 / C8 (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as44-e.htm)

http://home1.stofanet.dk/gunny/gunny.jpg

teebus
03-17-2004, 08:52 AM
You own an SVD Dragunov in real life? Where do you live? Could you get something better, or do you just like using it for "fun"?! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

I have fired that thing in real life, alongside the PSG-1, MSG-90, Dakota T76 Longbow, SL9-SD, Blaser R93 Tactical, MSG-90SD, L96AW, SSG-3000 and a few others--&gt; Before you start flamming!

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

njcl
03-17-2004, 09:00 AM
hmmmm the shotguns when fired return to their original position but the ak doesnt..i love this game to bits but find i avoid certain guns cause of recoil,after all its only a game not a simulation,the developers should have kept that in mind

http://www.freewebs.com/njcl/Banf.JPG

Aries73
03-17-2004, 11:23 PM
Hmm, it´s game, i understand there are compromises between realism and gameplay.
Alot of people have complained about the recoil being to hefty, it is infact for most weapons, especially if you don´t interact with the shooting process in RvS to control it, i.e. moving the mouse downwards to compensate and shooting short bursts triggering 2-3 shots at a time. About accuracy, RvS´s natural scope is CQB, as such the map sizes are accordingly small, on most maps in most situations you barely have 100m unobstructed viewing- and engagement distance. That´s distances you could cover halfway accurately with an decent MP in real life, we hit kneeling target silhouettes at 200m with MP2A1´s (UZI´s), and these were really abused ones that maybe went though a thousand recruit hands over the years before it was our turn to shoot them. Ingame they had to somehow set MP´s, Carbines, Rifles and Sniper Rifles apart, i´d guess that accuracy has been proportionally scaled down, to have a noticeable difference between all those weapons at normal ingame engagement distances.

The-Pizza-Man
03-18-2004, 01:25 AM
Accuracy is another thing entirely. I think the balance of the game would be much better if they improved the base accuracy of most weapons. Assault rifles wouldn't own entirely because of there better accuracy and damage. If SMGs had accuracy which was effectively the same as ARs at the ranges on these maps, usually no more than 50 metres, then they would be a lot more useful.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/johndenman/Motoko_Shooting_Small_Low.gif

whorehopper
03-18-2004, 01:29 AM
I heard they will fix all of this when the PROMISED Linux server patch comes out...

W-r-a-i-t-h
03-18-2004, 02:25 AM
OFP is one of the best games for the way a true to life gun works. You dont have this ret bloom junk. When you run or get hurt your sights move, and you can even see the gun move around in 3rd person.
The bullet would have to come out at a 45 to hit like it does in this game when you have ret bloom.

Any ways if you noticed the pic I post, I think you can all say something needs to be done to fix how dead on and fast you can hit a target with single fire burst in this game.


"50 yards away with M4 rapid single shot fire. This was the first time at the range with this guns and I did not use cardboard behind it. (Makes the paper moves all around when you hit it)
click here for pic (http://mrsdriverseducationworld.homestead.com/files/50yrdHead.jpg) "
Oh btw this was with my iron sights and bi-pod not down. At that time I had just bought my scope and did not sight it in yet. click here for pic of gun used (http://mrsdriverseducationworld.homestead.com/files/M4A3-L.jpg)

[This message was edited by W-r-a-i-t-h on Thu March 18 2004 at 01:35 AM.]

Dienekes2
03-18-2004, 10:34 AM
Ok, not to rain on anyone's parade...but if the guns were like they are in RL you'd never miss. I mean seriously, I used to do tourny pistol shooting and I would be hitting targets the size of dollar coins 20-30 feet away on the fly. I usually used a modified deagle or a base glock. If you match the recoil of the RL guns in game there would be none. The M4, M16, M14, and almost every rifle now has the spring going from the chamber to the butt of the stalk. This very literally neutralizes recoil as the shock is driven into your shoulder. Now if it were like that in game if your standing still your shots would never go outside of a 1/2 foot radius. There is a point at which a game is too easy, it already isn't very hard to control the recoil in game. We don't need to make it easier.

Live life by the values of honor, loyalty, and freedom. For these are the only faiths worth dying for.

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The-Gathering (http://www.the-gathering.org)

teebus
03-18-2004, 10:57 AM
I wouldn't say there was virtually no recoil for all weapons if it was to be more realistic... I mean- I have used an AK-47 when on close protection duty in Russia- that had pretty hefty recoil and wasn't terribly accurate at longer ranges. I have also used a FAMAS F1 (old FAMAS) and found it crappy.

One thing they couldn't put into a game is how light and easy to control the G36 is (sorry to go on about it again), and also- how would they integrate both sights? It would get pretty complex.

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Dienekes2
03-18-2004, 11:00 AM
Well not all guns would have little recoil of course...but most people aren't gonna use an ak-47 with realistic aim when they have an M4 with realistic aim to choose from. Kinda like a sniper using a machine gun with a scope attached. :P

Live life by the values of honor, loyalty, and freedom. For these are the only faiths worth dying for.

http://www.the-gathering.org/useravatars/sig.jpg

The-Gathering (http://www.the-gathering.org)

teebus
03-18-2004, 11:23 AM
Like me using a machine gun with a scope attatched... That is a new one! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

ftp://ftp.blueyonder.co.uk/store1/incoming/JSF2.jpg

X35 Joint-Strike-Fighter (F35B US Designation)

Jackal-.
03-19-2004, 02:20 AM
What´s your name in-game teebus?