From ConViction Team

[Orph3O]

Hi Everyone,

Thomas here, from the ConViction Team in Montreal.


We just wanted to give you a little heads up.

When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward... because we believe that we have something exciting to propose you, a new gameplay, that we hope will excite you as much as the Light and Shadow that we created 7 years ago.
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy. Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

All I can say is that we are the original Splinter Team, we are working towards the same standards of gameplay originality and polish, and we hope that as we will provide more info, that you will understand better our objectives and realize that we are not trying to create a subpar splinter cell, but an exciting stealth game, with Sam Fisher, in the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell universe.
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.
We needed to experience new things, we wanted to challenge ourselves and by doing so, are challenging you. We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

Cheers !

PS: as I am writing this post, a screen two rows in front of me is displaying only the Ambiant Occlusion effects (nothing else) of a map... who said we didn't have shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Thomas
Orph3O

Ordo Ab Chaos

[MKCC14]

Strange...out of nowhere these Ubi devs come out to say something on the forums. Well, it should have been expected, they came out of the shadows. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I hope you're new challenges will excite and make us want you to improve on it possibly in Splinter Cell(6): DOuble Convicted.

[marinius]

Well, if this guy really is who he says he is I must applaud the fact that someone from the team actually posts on the forum.

That being said, this post didn't do much to make me feel more enthusiastic about the game:

"When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward..."

Gameplay is for me what defines SC, not Sam Fisher, not the story nor anything else and I can't really see why it was so obvious for the dev team to shy away from light and shadows.

But as I've stated before, I will buy and play this game, hopefully these talented people will at least make a game that is enjoyable to play, although it being far removed from the original SC-experience.

[lochang19]

Are you sure you work for UBI? Check his posts. There's no mention of it in his other 2 posts. Skepticism ftw.

Either way, still not buying the game.

[marinius]

Yeah, I noticed the thing with the other posts too. Nothing about this guy suggests he's with Ubi. Might very well be someone just out to provoke some reactions for his own amusement.

[lochang19]

Precisely. KIK BAN!

[EmmaJordan]

Originally posted by Orph3O:
Hi Everyone,

Thomas here, from the ConViction Team in Montreal.


We just wanted to give you a little heads up.

When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward... because we believe that we have something exciting to propose you, a new gameplay, that we hope will excite you as much as the Light and Shadow that we created 7 years ago.
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy. Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

All I can say is that we are the original Splinter Team, we are working towards the same standards of gameplay originality and polish, and we hope that as we will provide more info, that you will understand better our objectives and realize that we are not trying to create a subpar splinter cell, but an exciting stealth game, with Sam Fisher, in the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell universe.
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.
We needed to experience new things, we wanted to challenge ourselves and by doing so, are challenging you. We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

Cheers !

PS: as I am writing this post, a screen two rows in front of me is displaying only the Ambiant Occlusion effects (nothing else) of a map... who said we didn't have shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Thomas
Orph3O

Ordo Ab Chaos

Well, given the arrogance of the post, I would think it strongly suggests that he/she does work for Ubisoft.

Ubisoft, by ignoring its fanbase and core gameplay, is essentially saying "we are doing this for us" and not the fan. While they would love to have us "on board", it is not essential... (you have to love how they expect to make money while pissing off and/or ignoring their fan base).

If these developers were so "bored" with the core game play, have them work on "Prince of Persia" or to create a new title (I have an idea, how about a "Jason Bourne" title - since that is what the developers evidently want to do) and let others work on the game.

There is much that can be done to make a "different game" while still keeping the game play intact. If these guys could not figure it out, then perhaps they are not as creative as we have all given them credit for.

[Povidone_Stomp]

Deciding to leave the light and shadow gameplay behind does suggest to me the team had grown bored with the formula, and probably felt it was too restricting - they wanted to explore more, different gameplay/stealth scenarios.

I can appreciate that. I'd be happier to hear them offer at least the possibility of returning to the classic gameplay fans really enjoyed.

Conviction to me looks like an interesting diversion for the series, but the degree of its success will probably determine the direction the series takes in the future, and I'm sure there is a bigger market for the faster paced action games (as Conviction appears to be) than the classic SC gameplay style, so I doubt we'll ever see a return to those days, and that, to me, is disappointing.

Conviction will probably be a lot of fun, as I can't imagine Montreal not delivering in that respect, but man am I going to miss the intense, immersive experience SC offered through hiding and striking from the shadows!

[EmmaJordan]

Originally posted by Povidone_Stomp:
Deciding to leave the light and shadow gameplay behind does suggest to me the team had grown bored with the formula, and probably felt it was too restricting - they wanted to explore more, different gameplay/stealth scenarios.

I can appreciate that. I'd be happier to hear them offer at least the possibility of returning to the classic gameplay fans really enjoyed.

Conviction to me looks like an interesting diversion for the series, but the degree of its success will probably determine the direction the series takes in the future, and I'm sure there is a bigger market for the faster paced action games (as Conviction appears to be) than the classic SC gameplay style, so I doubt we'll ever see a return to those days, and that, to me, is disappointing.

Conviction will probably be a lot of fun, as I can't imagine Montreal not delivering in that respect, but man am I going to miss the intense, immersive experience SC offered through hiding and striking from the shadows!

If they wanted to make a different type of game, then get new developers... clearly they have a large fan base that will pay for a continuation of the series in the traditional format of gameplay.

Splinter Cell is now an action game, not a stealth game. OK, I guess you can argue that there is stealth in not being noticed within a crowd, but it certainly is not what got everyone here excited.

There may be a greater potential fanbase for action games than stealth, but do not forget that there are a ton of action titles (many with much better concepts and established fan bases) and Ubisoft has elected to disregard its own fan base in an attempt to get a small share of the action market (as a fan, I will certainly not forget that....)

[Jason-Alaska]

Thanks for the updates Orph3O!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

[Zedblade]

Originally posted by Orph3O:
Hi Everyone,

Thomas here, from the ConViction Team in Montreal.


We just wanted to give you a little heads up.

When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward... because we believe that we have something exciting to propose you, a new gameplay, that we hope will excite you as much as the Light and Shadow that we created 7 years ago.
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy. Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

All I can say is that we are the original Splinter Team, we are working towards the same standards of gameplay originality and polish, and we hope that as we will provide more info, that you will understand better our objectives and realize that we are not trying to create a subpar splinter cell, but an exciting stealth game, with Sam Fisher, in the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell universe.
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.
We needed to experience new things, we wanted to challenge ourselves and by doing so, are challenging you. We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

Cheers !

PS: as I am writing this post, a screen two rows in front of me is displaying only the Ambiant Occlusion effects (nothing else) of a map... who said we didn't have shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Thomas
Orph3O

Ordo Ab Chaos

Good job alienating pretty much all SC fans. Way to ruin a franchise.

I'm not buying conviction. I didn't buy DA becuase of the numerious bugs and for the fact the MP was horrible and a insult to the vets from CT.

Release a stand alone Splinter Cell MP game that is based off of PT/CT's 2v2 Spies vs. Mercs and you will get me back as a customer.

That is if you actually have anything to do with Ubisoft and arn't just some lamer.

[iNinjai]

lolololol, what is this a comic book. I am still so disapointed with da, and this is what you have to offer! I bought every single splinter cell game since sc1, and wont be buying this game.

[Phreaky_McGeek]

DA was disappointing enough. Did the team even bother listening to DA players? Many people wanted the old CT gameplay back, not a different game. I might purchase ConViction but not because it's a Splinter Cell game - I buy SC games because it's the only series around that can get the shadow based stealth just right, not for being able to pick up a chair realistically.

[Rhoulette]

<span class="ev_code_purple">Orph3O is an important figure on the development team in Montreal, so I would kindly ask that you all take a moment to appreciate the fact that we have a development team that is attentive to our community. As you all know, not all of the industry's dev teams are proactively community-oriented, and I firmly believe that both the community and the devs benefit from having a healthy relationship.

They understand that you all are concerned about the changes being made in Splinter Cell ConViction. They wanted to express the philosophy behind their design decisions. Just as there are dev teams in the world who don't care about community, there are dev teams out there who are happy regurgitating the same game over and over again only to add a couple features to each 'new' game the produce.

Our development team in Montreal, arguably the world's best (although I wouldn't recommend trying to argue that point with me; I'm rather stubborn about it), could not be happy simply regurgitating the same game that you all have bought and played multiple times already. They wanted to do something creative and different while embracing the same inherent goals of the original Splinter Cell.


Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

The launch of this game is still far away. There will be plenty of time for you guys to make a decision before it's on store shelves, so instead of jumping to conclusions, be patient and keep an open mind. If by the time it comes out we haven't convinced you that this game will be worth playing, then so be it, but I urge you to HAVE SOME FAITH in the team that caused you to hang out on these forums in the first place. </span>

[MKCC14]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Some people don't want to keep going back to the same thing over and over. New challenges = More fun, the point of a videogame.

[Jackie Fiest]

Hello Thomas! Nice to see you again.

I know Rhoulette has said so, but I just want to back her up to say I know this person is a Ubi Montreal developer. I'm glad to see that someone from Ubi Mon is posting here. http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

[gui_brazil1991]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<span class="ev_code_purple">Orph3O is an important figure on the development team in Montreal, so I would kindly ask that you all take a moment to appreciate the fact that we have a development team that is attentive to our community.</span>

Yea, they come every 5 years to say that they're destroying more and more the game.

[Zedblade]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
Orph3O is an important figure on the development team in Montreal, so I would kindly ask that you all take a moment to appreciate the fact that we have a development team that is attentive to our community.

How would we know who he is. No title, 3 posts. And attentive to our community? HA. What delusional world you must live in. They appear once in every 5 years to tell us they are changing everything we love about a franchise. In between those times, they fail to release a stable game and then refuse to support it or provide the community with any type of REAL help.

[marinius]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<span class="ev_code_purple">Orph3O is an important figure on the development team in Montreal, so I would kindly ask that you all take a moment to appreciate the fact that we have a development team that is attentive to our community. As you all know, not all of the industry's dev teams are proactively community-oriented, and I firmly believe that both the community and the devs benefit from having a healthy relationship.


</span>

Wow, I'm actually rather stunned by this. I thought the original post was fairly arrogant and not at all effective if the aim was to make sceptics a little less sceptical.

But this post from Rhoulette is sadly far worse. In a previous post I in fact applauded the dev for posting in the forums, but being told to be appreciative of it is another matter entirely.

I've bought every SC-game, the original I bought twice - to get the extra missions. I love this franchise above all other games, yet I should apparently take a moment to appreciate a dev finally posting a rather obtuse post about how the dev team really just want to do their own thing, regardless of what the fans think. At the same time I'm being told that this dev team is attentive to the community...

This is arrogance taken to the next level, unbelievable!

[lochang19]

Originally posted by Zedblade:
How would we know who he is. No title, 3 posts. And attentive to our community? HA. What delusional world you must live in. They appear once in every 5 years to tell us they are changing everything we love about a franchise. In between those times, they fail to release a stable game and then refuse to support it or provide the community with any type of REAL help.

qfFe

Unbelieveable, really. Good luck with sales this time around. You geniuses decimated the community with Double Agent, may as well go for the finishing blow and destroy it completely.


edit:
@Rhoulette:
Do you pick the Red pill or the Blue one? Pick the Blue and you'll stay in "Ubisoft cant make mistakes and they are awesome and listen to their customers and they support their games"-land. Pick the Red and I'll show you how deep the rabbithole goes.

Purple is a combination of both red and blue, Scworld.

[wallz0r]

Ow wow an Ubisoft employer finally decides to post on this forum.Why couldn't an Ubisoft employer post when DA was released?Afraid of being butchered?I respect you work and all that and I know it's not easy what you do,but why change completely something that isn't broken.You could've left it as an option.Like i posted in another topic...maybe some want to play it using the new "active-stealth" concept,maybe some want to hide in the shadows.Maybe its too early to judge the game,but after what Double Agent(PC) turned out to be,I'm starting to doubt that change is THAT good

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by wallz0r:
Ow wow an Ubisoft employer finally decides to post on this forum.Why couldn't an Ubisoft employer post when DA was released?Afraid of being butchered?I respect you work and all that and I know it's not easy what you do,but why change completely something that isn't broken.You could've left it as an option.Like i posted in another topic...maybe some want to play it using the new "active-stealth" concept,maybe some want to hide in the shadows.Maybe its too early to judge the game,but after what Double Agent(PC) turned out to be,I'm starting to doubt that change is THAT good
You wanted a Shanghai dev to come on the forums, this guy is a Montreal dev the person who made the xbox version. No one had complaints over that version of the game so they didnt have to justify anything really...so dont mistake this guy for the Shanghai people that you want.

[Llamaguy2010]

What I don't understand from most of these people are why they don't understand a character/series has to have a "dark" point. We had a small point in SC1 when (i think) redding dies from enemy fire. It is , in my opinion, something we have to deal with. The main reason why DA did so badly was because 1. they revamped SvM, and 2. It was a direct port, which caused flaws. If Montreal can back up its history and deliver a quality game like SCCT, then im sure all of these rumors will become null, like "Why dont they just deliver the final blow and kill the series", and "im not buying this game because of MP"

IMO, the multiplayer is something that i would actually play this time around. the regular SvM got very boring after a while. I feel that the new mode would actually get my adrenaline pumping.

[CovertKi11]

Originally posted by Llamaguy2010:
I feel that the new mode would actually get my adrenaline pumping. Compared to hacking the last objective with 3 seconds on the objective, 5 seconds on the game clock and both mercs charging around the corner?

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by CovertKi11:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Llamaguy2010:
I feel that the new mode would actually get my adrenaline pumping. Compared to hacking the last objective with 3 seconds on the objective, 5 seconds on the game clock and both mercs charging around the corner? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We havent even seen the new MP in action, so that question cant even be answered.

[lochang19]

Not disagreeing with you entirely here, MKCC14, but with DA it was:

1) "We haven't heard about MP so you can't judge yet."

We read articles...

2) "Well, we haven't seen it being demo'd yet, so you shouldn't judge it till then."

We see videos...

3) "Okay, but we haven't played it yet, who knows, it could be even FUNNER than CT!"

...and now there's more people playing CT than DA, so we see how that line of reasoning, normally sound, worked out.

[Rhoulette]

<span class="ev_code_purple">


I give credit to them from inventing some highly creative IP, but past that point they either throw out like-minded sequels without fixing bugs, or they go in a direction nobody wanted.


(Yikes, I accidentally deleted the post that this quote came from; I just meant to quote it. Sorry. You're not being censored. My fault. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif)

Do you actually know enough about the game to say that you know this is a direction nobody wanted? I happen to know that you do not. There is hardly any information about this game available and yet you guys are already acting like it's the worst thing that has ever happened to you.

My point is that you might as well wait and see. Again, if it still looks like something you don't want by the time it comes out, don't buy it.


How would we know who he is. No title, 3 posts. And attentive to our community? HA. What delusional world you must live in. They appear once in every 5 years to tell us they are changing everything we love about a franchise.

You probably haven't ever worked for a large company so let me explain how communications strategies work. Our developers have an important job to do which is making our games. This job itself can take 18 hours a day for 7 days a week in crunch time, so they don't usually have time to craft posts for the forums. This is why we have communications people, like Community Managers, hired to help with this process.

In this case, our devs said that they wanted to address these concerns directly because they wanted to explain that the decision to make some big changes in Splinter Cell wasn't just made on whim. They have passion for their work and they are doing all they can to make SCC a quality product. It will be stealth, and just as they defined stealth action with the first Splinter Cell, their goal is to expand the entire genre with a new approach.

My call for appreciation is simply this: they didn't have to write that post. It was intended to at least give you some perspective into their reasoning, whether or not you will agree. I think it's courageous for them to put that out there when keeping silent would have been easier.

</span>

[braiog]

Sounds like they're trying to win back some trust from the community. They want us to trust them because they are the original Splinter Cell team. And to THAT credit, and that credit alone, I have SOME trust for them.

However I also have the major disappointment that Double Agent was. And yes, I know that wasn't Montreal, but the bottom line for me was that it had the Ubisoft name on it.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but Ubi has next to NEVER made a post on these forums. If they're too busy, or have whatever other reason, fine - I can accept that. However, your "first" posts on a forum should not be "Hey guy, trust us".

To me, one of the cornerstones to trust is communication. Trust needs to be built, and like respect, it's not just handed out on a whim. So not to sound disrespectful, but it's going to take more of an effort on Ubi's part than to ask for trust.

If it turns out the games does well, you'll have vindicated and earned trust (maybe enough for me to forget about DA) And it's noble to say that you're open to going back to SC-SCCT's gameplay if Conviction doesn't do well. There are a lot of open endings to the complete picture, and only time will tell.

[Zedblade]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Some people don't want to keep going back to the same thing over and over. New challenges = More fun, the point of a videogame.

I've played for years and have yet to get tired of the game play. Tired of the bugs and glitches, tired oft he same maps. Yes. Not tired of the game play.

PT/CT's Gameplay is something I want over and over. Change isn't always good. (points to DA.)

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by Zedblade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Some people don't want to keep going back to the same thing over and over. New challenges = More fun, the point of a videogame.

<span class="ev_code_purple">EDITED</span>. I've played for years and have yet to get tired of the game play. Tired of the bugs and glitches, tired oft he same maps. Yes. Not tired of the game play.

PT/CT's Gameplay is something I want over and over. Change isn't always good. (points to DA.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Haha, yeah i really suck if i could blindly run through all the current SC games without any difficulty. Yes, on hardest difficulty too. Even SCDA for xbox, where you get no ammo and gadgets. Now its time for something that i have never played before that will frustrate me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[lochang19]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
[Haha, yeah i really suck if i could blindly run through all the current SC games without any difficulty. Yes, on hardest difficulty too. Even SCDA for xbox, where you get no ammo and gadgets. Now its time for something that i have never played before that will frustrate me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

FYI: Zedblade was referring to MULTIplayer mode, not singleplayer. Multiplayer has no difficulty settings and you can pick whatever gadgets you want!

[Iservealot]

Thomas, thanks for the update! It's good to see that a developer took time from his work schedule to post on the forums.

Conviction is looking interesting and I wouldn't mind getting my hands on it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Rhoulette]

Originally posted by braiog:
To me, one of the cornerstones to trust is communication. Trust needs to be built, and like respect, it's not just handed out on a whim.

<span class="ev_code_purple">I agree 100%, which is why we are trying to improve upon this trend, starting with more communication from devs, either through our Community Managers or by them posting themselves on occassion. They are still going to be super busy, which is good for everyone, so I don't want to set expectations that they will be posting all the time because that's frankly not their job. They're paid to be brilliant designers, I'm paid to help streamline communication with the community.

To that end, Jinx and I will also be taking more responsibility for helping to improve communication for this title. We're lucky to be dealing with devs who have tough enough skin to not be scared off by things like insta-flaming when they post. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </span>

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by lochang19:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
[Haha, yeah i really suck if i could blindly run through all the current SC games without any difficulty. Yes, on hardest difficulty too. Even SCDA for xbox, where you get no ammo and gadgets. Now its time for something that i have never played before that will frustrate me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

FYI: Zedblade was referring to MULTIplayer mode, not singleplayer. Multiplayer has no difficulty settings and you can pick whatever gadgets you want! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok then, that is something i thought i excelled at, I havent played everyone online but most of them that i did play were just predictable. I did some of my own OWNing and left them quitting the game.

Yeah, i enjoyed the SCCT SvM so much, it was my fave MP game, i couldnt stop playing myself. Things do wear off after a while.

[Zedblade]

Originally posted by Zedblade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Some people don't want to keep going back to the same thing over and over. New challenges = More fun, the point of a videogame.

I've played for years and have yet to get tired of the game play. Tired of the bugs and glitches, tired oft he same maps. Yes. Not tired of the game play.

PT/CT's Gameplay is something I want over and over. Change isn't always good. (points to DA.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Telling a person he sucks is no more disrespectful or rude then telling a black person he is black. I fail to see the problem. I'll be more 'respectful' in the future though. Can I go outside and play now Mom.

[FlamingGimp]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<span class="ev_code_purple">
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I give credit to them from inventing some highly creative IP, but past that point they either throw out like-minded sequels without fixing bugs, or they go in a direction nobody wanted.

Do you actually know enough about the game to say that you know this is a direction nobody wanted? I happen to know that you do not. </span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't commenting on conviction, my post was about how I highlight my perception of ubi's mentality when it comes to franchises, in general of course.

[Aj6627]

Thomas, if I may ask, is Martin Caya back on the SC dev team for Conviction?

Thanks.

[slit1neck2speed]

Thomas , Its great to have a Dev post on these forums. The Devs must really look at these forums after all. Lol.

So If I may Im going to shoot away and ask a question " Will sams knife be implemented into Conviction's Gameplay in anyway ? Im into the whole new CQC approach your team has gone for.I used to love the knife in CT. It delivered a lot of depth in terms of gameplay. If Sam is a known fugitive ; he has to use anything he can as a weapon right. Does this hint in anyway that the knife will be back ready to kick some *** Sam fisher Style. If so it will be a much appreciated return.

XD

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

[Knot3D]

Thanx for the post Orph30/Thomas,

As a SC fan since 2003 (i bought the Xbox FOR this game) i am glad to see dev team members post here.

That being said, i am sorry to say i am not in the least, excited about the direction SC Conviction seems to be heading - even considering, i LOVE Hitman, Metal Gear Solid and GoldenEye 007 on N64 AND i am hyped for Assassin's Creed.

I can kind of understand dev teams need new challenges (I've been at a studio for short time myself), but imho, it would have been ALOT more wise to do this new direction with a brand new IP.... or maybe even a spin off featuring another 3rd Echelon member. Maybe some off-tangent character like Shetland was in SC PT.

With the information Ubi has provided us, many of us remain sceptic and see elements in this game creepily resembling Hitman, Assassin's Creed and others, in a way as if it seems tacked onto the SC universe.

Also, may i point out to the many post of others and myself which describe great ideas of how the core of SC Chaos Theory could have been given way more depth and brought to the next level.
Unfortunately, these ideas & wishes get brushed off and ignored too easily...

Still respecting the Ubisoft Montreal team, I can tell you I am still NOT looking forward to SC Conviction.

Thus my budget for stealth game kicks will probably go to another game (MGS4 for example)

Best of Regards,
Knot3D

[Liquid_Mario]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
Do you actually know enough about the game to say that you know this is a direction nobody wanted? I happen to know that you do not.

This question is getting rather old. Everytime any displeasure comes from something that isn't released, people are quick to defend it with the tired old saying "Don't say it sucks untill it comes out."

Its goes both ways i'm afraid. Don't say its good untill you played it. Also, if information is slowly being released and that information makes the game sound like it won't be fun. We will say it doesn't sound fun UNTILL something is released that changes our mind. Same goes with the reverse side.

People said the same thing about DA. Stop judging it when you haven't played it, stop jumping to conclusions. Guess what, we were right. It sucked.

We will form our conclusions based on what information is available. Whether it be good or bad.

/rant.

[Stealth_chill]

Originally posted by Orph3O:
This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward...

so basically your saying "we thought about doing what the fans wanted, but instead we did what we wanted

no disrespect at all sir but i am very concerned about the way that this series was going. Seeing as how everything that made splintercell an award winning game has been destroyed. I'm sure you saw how double agent failed when it tried to take things in a new direction. SP and multiplayer failed. You remember how CT multiplayer was,people were always playing even after DA was released. After the drastic change you put on DA's multiplayer there is practically no one playing anymore.

it just saddens me to think that you guys don't do whats best for your fans. WE loved Spy vrs. merc and we have grown very found of it from PT. How you can take it away from us in convictions is not right in my opinion. I would love it if we had a choice, maybe make that a second option for multiplayer. Have the crowd mechanics multiplayer ples traditional spy versus merc. As in Chaos theory multiplayer but revamped with new gadgets and some of the stuff from DA (minus the PD).

I just think that it would be wise if you guys came on the forums and said "what would you guys like to see in the next splintercell game." I was baffled when assassin_411 said that the ideas that some of the community members including me and braiog made were being passed on to ubi. THAT, is what i want to see.

I commend you though sir for coming on to this forum and giving us some inside view. You are also a person that actually seems to care about the community and gives them some info. but still i think that there should be more involvement of the community. Seeing as we are the ones that buy the games and review them and spread the word of mouth to friends family and others. so isn't it a good idea to get our point of view in this situation.

All i am asking is to please have the community more involved in it. I respect Montreal more than any company in the world because they were the company that gave birth to this masterpiece of a series. I just didn't think that you would be the ones to take it down this road. If anything please bring back Spy vs merc multiplayer. i don't care if ConVictions gets delayed for another year because of it, i just want to be happy with a product i am buying.

Thank you,
Ron
AKA Stealth_chill

[marinius]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

This new and improved form of communication from Ubi via the community managers apparently revolves around arrogance and patronizing the people who effectively pay their salaries. This condescending tone that recently has been introduced will hardly come across as the best way of communicating with the fans. A case in point:

"You probably haven't ever worked for a large company so let me explain how communications strategies work. Our developers have an important job to do which is making our games. This job itself can take 18 hours a day for 7 days a week in crunch time, so they don't usually have time to craft posts for the forums. This is why we have communications people, like Community Managers, hired to help with this process."

This helpful explanation by Rhoulette on how the communication strategies of a large company work is both belittling the people on the forums as well as serving as a public relations no-no 101. You don't insult the intelligence of people you're trying to sell a product and you don't assert yourself a communications expert while doing so.

I thought these forums were created for discussions about SCC, based on what we have learned so far. I was obviously mistaken.

[Georg_Maximus]

Originally posted by Orph3O:
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.

As has already been said: if it ain't broken, don't fix it. It's really sad that the SC fans have more faith in the potential of traditional SC gameplay than the dev team itself seems to have, and that Ubi presumably conciders it impossible to develop the series further without streamlining the gameplay a more generic action genre. But I guess ubisoft, like all huge companies, has its own marketing team who's advices often are the final word when market strategies are being made. These are the guys who can barely switch on a computer, but who decides what the coders and designers will create. I'll stay open minded and surely buy the game, but by the looks of things, it won't be a SC game.

[Georg_Maximus]

Originally posted by marinius:
This helpful explanation by Rhoulette on how the communication strategies of a large company work is both belittling the people on the forums as well as serving as a public relations no-no 101. You don't insult the intelligence of people you're trying to sell a product and you don't assert yourself a communications expert while doing so.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Respect! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Rhoulette]

Originally posted by marinius:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

This new and improved form of communication from Ubi via the community managers apparently revolves around arrogance and patronizing the people who effectively pay their salaries. This condescending tone that recently has been introduced will hardly come across as the best way of communicating with the fans. A case in point:

"You probably haven't ever worked for a large company so let me explain how communications strategies work. Our developers have an important job to do which is making our games. This job itself can take 18 hours a day for 7 days a week in crunch time, so they don't usually have time to craft posts for the forums. This is why we have communications people, like Community Managers, hired to help with this process."

This helpful explanation by Rhoulette on how the communication strategies of a large company work is both belittling the people on the forums as well as serving as a public relations no-no 101.

<span class="ev_code_purple">I was not trying to belittle you, you are the on e reading arrogance into the post. By pure statistics it is likely that most people here are still in high school or college, first of all. Those here of the working force may or may not have worked for a large company. If you have, then the information wasn't directed to you.

I had hoped that this might have been informative for those who do not see the daily lives of game developers. Marinius, perhaps you are a developer and know full well the time constraints that developers struggle with as an inherent part of their job. My information would be useless to you in that case, but there are likely non-developers on the forums who were not previously aware of this game industry condition.

I wasn't being condescending, you are seeing malice where there is none intended. I have no reason to want to insult, patronize, or condescend to anyone here. I regret that you misinterpreted my post as arrogance and I agree that such misunderstandings aren't the best way to start off communication. </span>

[marinius]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marinius:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

This new and improved form of communication from Ubi via the community managers apparently revolves around arrogance and patronizing the people who effectively pay their salaries. This condescending tone that recently has been introduced will hardly come across as the best way of communicating with the fans. A case in point:

"You probably haven't ever worked for a large company so let me explain how communications strategies work. Our developers have an important job to do which is making our games. This job itself can take 18 hours a day for 7 days a week in crunch time, so they don't usually have time to craft posts for the forums. This is why we have communications people, like Community Managers, hired to help with this process."

This helpful explanation by Rhoulette on how the communication strategies of a large company work is both belittling the people on the forums as well as serving as a public relations no-no 101.

<span class="ev_code_purple">I was not trying to belittle you, you are the on e reading arrogance into the post. By pure statistics it is likely that most people here are still in high school or college, first of all. Those here of the working force may or may not have worked for a large company. If you have, then the information wasn't directed to you.

I had hoped that this might have been informative for those who do not see the daily lives of game developers. Marinius, perhaps you are a developer and know full well the time constraints that developers struggle with as an inherent part of their job. My information would be useless to you in that case, but there are likely non-developers on the forums who were not previously aware of this game industry condition.

I wasn't being condescending, you are see malice where there is none intended. I have no reason to want to insult, patronize, or condescend to anyone here. I regret that you misinterpreted my post as arrogance and I agree that such misunderstandings aren't the best way to start off communication. </span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for clearing that up. I do realize that you didn't intend to come off as arrogant (btw, I never thought it was malicious), it would have been strange indeed if you did. Any form of communication, though, is open to interpretation. It isn't necessarily a recipient's fallacy if his interpretation of a message differs from what the sender's intention of said message might be.

I found in your previous posts an underlying tone of arrogance telling people to keep quiet with their criticisms because you obviously know more than we do. Now, I'm glad to hear that wasn't what you were trying to convey .

I'll leave this discussion here and go back to sharing my opinions on aspects of the new game with other SC-players, expecting continued interesting debates and less bashing from all sides of this new pro/con-SCC divide...

[S.a.S-Valserp]

Hey, by the way... I've got 3 words for your "absolutely stunningly new and fresh gameplay"...

Here they are: "Hitman Blood Money".

[psyichic]

Meh same old same old. This reminds me of Double Agent honestly. Community members get upset over the new direction, someone official comments(new in this case though, I think), Community members continue to berate the developers, Rhoulette steps in and tells us to back off, game is produced, game sucks, game dies after a few months.

Do I dare come back for SC6? Meh probably not. Hello Crysis!

[legacyzero]

I acknowledge the Dev Team posting here. That's awsome. although it was not the response we were hoping for. My "opinion" is this. I dont care what you do to the single player. I looks great and i'm excited to play it. It's somthing new. But the public has clearly stated that when it comes to "NEW" Multiplayer should not be touched! Granted make it better. Smooth it out! I dont want to be hiding in a crowd as some random dude in the multiplayer. YOU GUYS CAN BE COMPETING WITH HALO FFS!! AND WIN!! I have been playing DA since day one. Although the game clearly has issues, like the server issues and bugs. I've still had the time of my life with it. Dont take that away from us! Rhoulette!! Tell us you've seen this new multiplayer, and give us your opinion on it. Tell us if it's worth it. You wont will you. It's your job not to. but you know deep down that this direction is ludicrious and the means to an end for yet another SC. And as for the DEVS. You mean to tell me, that out of all that gaming genious and know-how, that they cant type over 100 words per minute, long enough to interact with this community. For the sake of making more money! I dont want to call up Blockbuster to see if they have a copy of SC:C. I WANNA HAVE IT ON RESERVE! To gladly shell out 80 bucks (YES 80) if i have to, for a great game, that I can burn up yet another 360 while I play. Sure, include this new direction in the multiplayer. But you cant tell me that also including SvM is a bad idea! WHY NOT HAVE TWO DISCS?? WHO CARES!!! I would even pay 60 bucks for it as DLC for XBL! I have absolutely no problem giving you guys more money for a great game. Take heed to this. THE KEY TO SUCCESS IS LISTENING TO YOUR END USER! WHY WOULD YOU MAKE A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT SELL!?!? Evidentally DA was a failure, but people not realizing this, bought it anyway. But the public knows now. Your sales will decline, and then what? all that money you spent on production? GET REAL UBI!! NOBODY CARE WHAT DIRECTION YOU WANT. YOU SHOULD CARE ABOUT US!!

[EmmaJordan]

My call for appreciation is simply this: they didn't have to write that post. It was intended to at least give you some perspective into their reasoning, whether or not you will agree. I think it's courageous for them to put that out there when keeping silent would have been easier.


Wow, let's give him a medal. He posted on a user forum.

Bravo!

You clearly do not get it. You make games for the fans. If no fans buy your games, you don't make money. If you don't make money, you are out of a job. Hence, customer satisfaction should be a huge concern. Yet, from each of your posts, I don't get any indication that you are listening to what many (likely a majority) of the fans here are saying. The arrogance is stunning.

Rather, you ignore our very valid concerns to explain to us what we already suspected - that Ubisoft is not concerned about the game play that fans want, but rather are more interested in creating a game that they want to make.

If you are sick of making this game, then give it to another Ubisoft developer (or, hell, outsource it). Don't ruin a great franchise.

Clearly, as you have pointed out, you developers have very little time to waste on your fan message boards. Fine. So let me help you save a bit more time. Your post could have been summed up as follows:

"I am sorry that so many people do not like the direction that we have taken, however, we don't care, we are still making a game that the broad fanbase does not want and if fans don't like it we don't need them"

[Hypno1988]

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orph3O:
This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward...
I'm sure you saw how double agent failed when it tried to take things in a new direction. SP and multiplayer failed. You remember how CT multiplayer was,people were always playing even after DA was released. After the drastic change you put on DA's multiplayer there is practically no one playing anymore.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ubisoft Montreal has never made the multiplayer for Splinter Cell games until now. Ubisoft Annecy were the ones responsible for the multiplayer component, from PT to DA. So Montreal had nothing to do with DA's multiplayer nor it's singleplayer. I think you're turning to the wrong man if you have some complaints regarding DA.

[EmmaJordan]

Originally posted by marinius:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

This new and improved form of communication from Ubi via the community managers apparently revolves around arrogance and patronizing the people who effectively pay their salaries. This condescending tone that recently has been introduced will hardly come across as the best way of communicating with the fans. A case in point:

"You probably haven't ever worked for a large company so let me explain how communications strategies work. Our developers have an important job to do which is making our games. This job itself can take 18 hours a day for 7 days a week in crunch time, so they don't usually have time to craft posts for the forums. This is why we have communications people, like Community Managers, hired to help with this process."

This helpful explanation by Rhoulette on how the communication strategies of a large company work is both belittling the people on the forums as well as serving as a public relations no-no 101. You don't insult the intelligence of people you're trying to sell a product and you don't assert yourself a communications expert while doing so.

I thought these forums were created for discussions about SCC, based on what we have learned so far. I was obviously mistaken.

What I do not understand is how there are actually people on this board that are applauding this great "communication strategy".

Any communication that is taking place is clearly one-sided. There has been no discussion. Rather, we get patronizing posts from "insiders" at Ubisoft that try to explain to us that they care little for what we, the fans, actually want.

I work at a very large company. I know for a fact that, if any of the employees here were so patronizing and inattentive to our customers, that they would be immediately fired. You see, our company understands that you need customers in order to succeed. Thus, customer satisfaction is ever important.

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by Hypno1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orph3O:
This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward...
I'm sure you saw how double agent failed when it tried to take things in a new direction. SP and multiplayer failed. You remember how CT multiplayer was,people were always playing even after DA was released. After the drastic change you put on DA's multiplayer there is practically no one playing anymore.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ubisoft Montreal has never made the multiplayer for Splinter Cell games until now. Ubisoft Annecy were the ones responsible for the multiplayer component, from PT to DA. So Montreal had nothing to do with DA's multiplayer nor it's singleplayer. I think you're turning to the wrong man if you have some complaints regarding DA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is something that is really bothering me here on the forums. Its like they are blaming for what happened to SCDA on them(Montreal) when they clearly made the xbox version. I cant remember hearing ANY complaints over the xbox version of SCDA. Everyone i know liked it and was even recommended more to buy than the 360 version.

So as you can see, everytime Montreal creates the next SC game they do excellent on it, and come out with little to none complaints. SCCT came out with a 9.9 rating and others that were above 9.5/10...could you really ask for more in the game that had so much. Anyways, i dont think its going to be this time that Montreal messes up making a SC game, when they just kept getting better and better from SC1-SCDA.

[timmieboy2]

Originally posted by psyichic:
Meh same old same old. This reminds me of Double Agent honestly. Community members get upset over the new direction, someone official comments(new in this case though, I think), Community members continue to berate the developers, Rhoulette steps in and tells us to back off, game is produced, game sucks, game dies after a few months.


Got the same feeling, only at DA most of us cooled down after being heard they listened to us and implanted SVU instead of SVS for PC so we just waited patiencely to see what DA would be.

But alot of us probably are affraid Ubisoft going very wrong direction with this.


Originally posted by Orph3O:
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy


I've got the feeling you are redefinding stealth instead of expanding. What we are seeing in movies is solve mistakes you made by alert guard by doing some "cool moves".
That doesn't make sence at all, someone makes a mistake and you reward him by giving him the chance to do a "cool finishing move"?
And when I heard the term "active stealth" I first laughed, but then got very scared. Active Stealth..
Let's ask Wiktionary:

1. Having the power or quality of acting; causing change; communicating action or motion; acting; "” opposed to passive, that receives; as, certain active principles; the powers of the mind.
So active is opposed to passive, then what does stealth means?
Wiktionary:


Noun
stealth

the attribute or characteristic of acting in secrecy, or in such a way that the actions are unnoticed or difficult to detect by others.
So we are going to be very active but not be detected. To be active you need to move fast, but to be not detectable easy you implant alot of "stupid" people into the game that don't recognise you?
To me stealth means taking the time to do things perfectly, I've always hid everybody and wanted to grab everyone to see if they had something to say and explore everything. Not running around a fameous place to shoot some icescream truck to run inside a store from back, meet some guards which I "pwn" by doing COMBAT moves and then block the door. Several things wrong there:
1. Allowing to move fast allowed
2. Shooting something and it explodes.
3. Combat moves.
4. Blocking door, again you reward someone who did something wrong (alerting guards) which something cool which is moving objects to block a door.

And for alot of people (mainly the vets/(old) fanbase) we want a multiplayer we can enjoy. Where our skills can be improved and impress/humiliate others in a good way, by sneaking up and distract him.
The multiplayer sounds to me like a simple game: Find the person with brains between the person who are programmed. Probably the first way to recognise them is that you know NPC's don't jump/crouch.


Originally posted by Rhoulette:
I firmly believe that both the community and the devs benefit from having a healthy relationship.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Please don't be offended by that's just lol. I've (yes I have, so that's just my feeling http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif) got the feeling you (Rhoulette) are sending weekly a e-mail to someone at ubi about what's happening at SC forums and that person decides if the devs get's it. When that happens (I think once in 3 months) you are informed by small info and tell that to us to cool us down.
I'm not saying you are not doing your job (properly), just saying that I think the communication between devs and us.

I'm still at this forum because I got little hope I once get to enjoy SC (multiplayer mostly). I play fulltime WoW now, but take time to visit it here.

Post got way larget then intended. But it's late and my english isn't that very good and sometimes write wrong words (just typed something instead of sometimes '-.-). I'm trying to get SC as good as it was by contributing to this forum. Not here because you might think I'm bored/feel like insulting (which I certainly don't aim for).

[Stealth_chill]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hypno1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orph3O:
This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward...
I'm sure you saw how double agent failed when it tried to take things in a new direction. SP and multiplayer failed. You remember how CT multiplayer was,people were always playing even after DA was released. After the drastic change you put on DA's multiplayer there is practically no one playing anymore.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ubisoft Montreal has never made the multiplayer for Splinter Cell games until now. Ubisoft Annecy were the ones responsible for the multiplayer component, from PT to DA. So Montreal had nothing to do with DA's multiplayer nor it's singleplayer. I think you're turning to the wrong man if you have some complaints regarding DA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is something that is really bothering me here on the forums. Its like they are blaming for what happened to SCDA on them(Montreal) when they clearly made the xbox version. I cant remember hearing ANY complaints over the xbox version of SCDA. Everyone i know liked it and was even recommended more to buy than the 360 version.

So as you can see, everytime Montreal creates the next SC game they do excellent on it, and come out with little to none complaints. SCCT came out with a 9.9 rating and others that were above 9.5/10...could you really ask for more in the game that had so much. Anyways, i dont think its going to be this time that Montreal messes up making a SC game, when they just kept getting better and better from SC1-SCDA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont need a ubisoft 101 course, i know that annecy has been making them. I was just saying how double agent has failed, does that mean that im saying its their fault? of course not. i was just giving them an example of what happened because of the drasti cchange of their multiplayer. Montreal has done so many good things to the splinter cell series making it great. but now it seams that htey are bringing it down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hypno1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orph3O:
This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward...
I'm sure you saw how double agent failed when it tried to take things in a new direction. SP and multiplayer failed. You remember how CT multiplayer was,people were always playing even after DA was released. After the drastic change you put on DA's multiplayer there is practically no one playing anymore.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ubisoft Montreal has never made the multiplayer for Splinter Cell games until now. Ubisoft Annecy were the ones responsible for the multiplayer component, from PT to DA. So Montreal had nothing to do with DA's multiplayer nor it's singleplayer. I think you're turning to the wrong man if you have some complaints regarding DA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That is something that is really bothering me here on the forums. Its like they are blaming for what happened to SCDA on them(Montreal) when they clearly made the xbox version. I cant remember hearing ANY complaints over the xbox version of SCDA. Everyone i know liked it and was even recommended more to buy than the 360 version.

So as you can see, everytime Montreal creates the next SC game they do excellent on it, and come out with little to none complaints. SCCT came out with a 9.9 rating and others that were above 9.5/10...could you really ask for more in the game that had so much. Anyways, i dont think its going to be this time that Montreal messes up making a SC game, when they just kept getting better and better from SC1-SCDA. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont need a ubisoft 101 course, i know that annecy has been making them. I was just saying how double agent has failed, does that mean that im saying its their fault? of course not. i was just giving them an example of what happened because of the drasti cchange of their multiplayer. Montreal has done so many good things to the splinter cell series making it great. but now it seams that htey are bringing it down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My post is directed to all doubters, not just you.

[Liquid_Mario]

It doesn't matter who made what. In the end its Ubisoft and the Ubisoft execs are the one that give the final go ahead. Personally I'm judging Ubi as Ubi. Not as seperate entities.

[MKCC14]

So your going to blame the people that didnt even make the 360 SCDA version which most hated, the people that made the xbox version that was much better. Doesnt seem fair to me. I dont think its Montreal's job to clean up what Shanghai did...and I wouldnt judge them as a whole because they all dont do the same work.

[Liquid_Mario]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
So your going to blame the people that didnt even make the 360 SCDA version which most hated, the people that made the xbox version that was much better. Doesnt seem fair to me. I dont think its Montreal's job to clean up what Shanghai did...and I wouldnt judge them as a whole because they all dont do the same work.

Its the company as a whole that is responsible fore the bad support. I'm not blaming Montreal for DA, your making stuff up. I'm blaming Ubisoft for DA.

[Demented_turkey]

Why could'nt the devolpers just went to there old splinter cell roots and built the game up from there. I can see Conviction getting crappy reviews etc. I used to love the series know montreal is after taking a leap of faith in a new direction that will dissapoint a load of die hard fans.

Being a Spy was what made the series. It will probably turn out how the angel of darkness turned out ; nothing like the orignal and it got tonnes of bad reviews. I used to love splinter cells old gameplay. Why is ubi montreal breaking somthing that doesent need to be fixed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

[savov]

And all u think, after THE "thing" called Double Agent(for 360, PS3 and PC) with its poor singleplayer and REALY bad multiplayer, the trust of the Community will be back just from nothing? Think again... it isnt so easy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Chinese_Bookey]

You'll never take me alive, Ubisoft brainwasher! *wraps tinfoil around his head*

[IgGy001985]

I actually wont complain about the new direction of Splinter Cell franchise, because I, believe it or not - like it.

I even like the fact that Ubisoft actually doesn't make a "annual update" with its most successful franchises, like some other publishers do.

But I DON'T like the fact that Splinter Cell: Conviction for PC will probably be another buggy, crappy port with no additional support whatsoever.

There'll probably be a patch or two, and "there you go kids, have phun, we're outta here".

Now I believe that Rhoulette will probably completely ignore this post, or she actually will reply, with a standard PR shyte "Oh, but you are completely wrong - We love the PC!".

Am I right?

[Hypno1988]

Originally posted by IgGy001985:
I actually wont complain about the new direction of Splinter Cell franchise, because I, believe it or not - like it.

I even like the fact that Ubisoft actually doesn't make a "annual update" with its most successful franchises, like some other publishers do.

But I DON'T like the fact that Splinter Cell: Conviction for PC will probably be another buggy, crappy port with no additional support whatsoever.

There'll probably be a patch or two, and "there you go kids, have phun, we're outta here".

Now I believe that Rhoulette will probably completely ignore this post, or she actually will reply, with a standard PR shyte "Oh, but you are completely wrong - We love the PC!".

Am I right?
Why are you bashing Montreal for lack of patches? Chaos Theory for the PC got no less then 5 patches and two additional CO-OP maps. And when the community asked for shader model 2.0 support, they got it. You show me another team who did that for their customers.

[IgGy001985]

Originally posted by Hypno1988:
Why are you bashing Montreal for lack of patches? Chaos Theory for the PC got no less then 5 patches and two additional CO-OP maps. And when the community asked for shader model 2.0 support, they got it. You show me another team who did that for their customers.

Chaos Theory probably was Ubisoft's last game with some kind of support for the customer, but every other game was "Xbox 360 this, Xbox 360 that, next-gen, yada yada yada". I'm not talking only about the Splinter Cell franchise.

Btw, as far as I'm aware, Chaos Theory had SM 2.0 support all the way.

[SBD_SWAT]

Thanks for the update! I understand why you are going in a different direction with the SP, it makes sense. But there is no reason IMO to change the MP. There is no story line for it to begin with. I've played SCCT since the day it came out everyday until i got 360 on launch date, and still play it today. It has GREAT replay value. I got Double Agent when it came out, and yes it was cool for awhile but it still isn't the good ol' Spy vs. Merc that SOLD the series since Pandora Tomorrow.

All i can say is if its not broke, don't fix it.

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by SBD_SWAT:
Thanks for the update! I understand why you are going in a different direction with the SP, it makes sense. But there is no reason IMO to change the MP. There is no story line for it to begin with. I've played SCCT since the day it came out everyday until i got 360 on launch date, and still play it today. It has GREAT replay value. I got Double Agent when it came out, and yes it was cool for awhile but it still isn't the good ol' Spy vs. Merc that SOLD the series since Pandora Tomorrow.

All i can say is if its not broke, don't fix it.
Ok, to explain it to you, they are changing the MP because they want it to be at least similar to what they are doing in the SP. So that when people stop playing the SP it would be easy for them to just jump on the MP and play with no HUGE differences.

[Stealth_chill]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SBD_SWAT:
Thanks for the update! I understand why you are going in a different direction with the SP, it makes sense. But there is no reason IMO to change the MP. There is no story line for it to begin with. I've played SCCT since the day it came out everyday until i got 360 on launch date, and still play it today. It has GREAT replay value. I got Double Agent when it came out, and yes it was cool for awhile but it still isn't the good ol' Spy vs. Merc that SOLD the series since Pandora Tomorrow.

All i can say is if its not broke, don't fix it.
Ok, to explain it to you, they are changing the MP because they want it to be at least similar to what they are doing in the SP. So that when people stop playing the SP it would be easy for them to just jump on the MP and play with no HUGE differences. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesnt have o be similar, who cares if it is similar? SVM was never really similar to the SP anyway, i dont remember being chased by mercs with grenades at ll in DA. i mean seriously, SVM was he best game ever. theres no need to have to change it because of singleplayer. People will play multiplayer far longer than they will single player (i f they have xbox live), so why make such a drastic and un needed change to it.

[lochang19]

Originally posted by Hypno1988:
Chaos Theory for the PC got no less then 5 patches and two additional CO-OP maps. And when the community asked for shader model 2.0 support, they got it. You show me another team who did that for their customers.

Only 2 of the 5 did anything for multiplayer, and one of those was released pre-launch. The next one fixed the Radeon bug and that's about it.

The game is still flawed in many ways, it's been documented doznes of times on here and nothing's been done other than make 2 more games.

[Hypno1988]

Originally posted by lochang19:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hypno1988:
Chaos Theory for the PC got no less then 5 patches and two additional CO-OP maps. And when the community asked for shader model 2.0 support, they got it. You show me another team who did that for their customers.

Only 2 of the 5 did anything for multiplayer, and one of those was released pre-launch. The next one fixed the Radeon bug and that's about it.

The game is still flawed in many ways, it's been documented doznes of times on here and nothing's been done other than make 2 more games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You should take into consideration that Annecy were the ones responsible for the multiplayer, not Montreal, so wasn't it Annecy's responsbility to patch the multiplayer as they were the ones who made it in the first place? And as people are still playing Chaos Theory online today, it can't be that bad.

[lochang19]

I didn't say anything about Montreal, Annecy or any of the others at all. I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Do you play CT for PC? Yes, of course it's still being played today, but that has no bearing on that it still has some major flaws in it that needed to be fixed long, long ago.

[IgGy001985]

Originally posted by Hypno1988:
You should take into consideration that Annecy were the ones responsible for the multiplayer, not Montreal, so wasn't it Annecy's responsbility to patch the multiplayer as they were the ones who made it in the first place? And as people are still playing Chaos Theory online today, it can't be that bad.

Hey, even if it was developed on darned Arctic, I, a customer, wouldn't care because it's - a producty by Ubisoft. Montreal? Shanghai? Annecy? Whatever?
I. DON'T. CARE.

I mean, there's literaly ONE game that is actually supported for the PC platform, and that is GRAW 2, but I'm sure that'll change with GRAW 3 or whatever the next Ghost Recon game will be called.

So, I have a newsflash for you: Ubisoft almost completely abandoned support for the PC platform and that'll continue even further, for sure.

They're acting like "Here you go your crappy console port, and you better be grateful we actually even did that."

[simulacra]

Abandoned support for the PC?

What do you expect, that UBI outs together a whole other team JUST to work for the PC when the 360 and PC version share API?
Some here seem to be a bit too ideal for their own best, money rules.

Ghost Recon has always been different, it was here BEFORE the xbox screwed the pc-platform up bigtime, ubi chose well to give the graw project to grin to make a completely pc-centric game, and there are others, take silent hunter 3 and 4, no xbox version as far as the eye can see.

What ppl dont seem too understand is that when the xbox and pc sharing the same api the development does not suffer from co-development, the bad things start to happen when the 2 versions branch off an platform specifics come to the surface, in the case of pc it's mostly about optimization which takes time, when the testing is lapse and optimization is bad ppl blame it on the codev, when it actually was the actual pc-centric dev that failed.

A pc-only team does not magically make problems like these go away...

[IgGy001985]

Originally posted by simulacra:
Abandoned support for the PC?

What do you expect, that UBI outs together a whole other team JUST to work for the PC when the 360 and PC version share API?
Some here seem to be a bit too ideal for their own best, money rules.

GRAW has always been different, it was here BEFORE the xbox screwed the pc-platform up bigtime, ubi chose well to give the graw project to grin to make a completely pc-centric game, and there are others, take silent hunter 3 and 4, no xbox version as far as the eye can see.

What ppl dont seem too understand is that when the xbox and pc sharing the same api the development does not suffer from co-development, the bad things start to happen when the 2 versions branch off an platform specifics come to the surface, in the case of pc it's mostly about optimization which takes time, when the testing is lapse and optimization is bad ppl blame it on the codev, when it actually was the actual pc-centric dev that failed.

A pc-only team does not magically make problems like these go away...

When I buy a game for the PC, I want it to be:

a) Fully supported, just like the console version
b) Bugless (as much as it can be)
c) And yes, PC-centric as much as it can be.

No, I don't want a dumb console port because I didn't bought a console game, but a PC game.
I don't want the game to force me to use a gamepad.
(If) I want to use my mouse and my keyboard, I want it to be perfectly balanced. Why? because I bought a darned game for - the PC.

If a developer does not meet this criteria, then why even bother developing the game for the PC in the first place?

[simulacra]

What you have bought since the beginning are "ports", even though the word isn't even applicable anymore...

[alex1090]

Why can't Montreal easily continue the work they finished with Chaos Theory?

I want to say: Chaos Theory SP was nearly bugless, the story was great, the graphics were good and the gameplay was fantastic. That was a Splinter Cell-Game, like it should be. Only remind the sarcasm dialogues between Lambert and Sam! Things like the one in the last level etc. - SCCT was the best one.

In SCDA there were - uncountable many - bugs, the story was - thats my opinion - bad (not only because Sarah died - it was the whole double-agent-thing) - the graphics were good, but not as good as they where promised - the gameplay was... well... good, but not as good as SCCT - and, as I can remember, there was nothing of Sam's dark sarcasm that he had always before.

The entire comunity was waiting for SC5. We all thought that Ubisoft will realize that SCDA was stupid. We all hoped, that Montreal - that was known for SC1 and SCCT - will do good work like they always did. But as it looks now, the SP will only have good graphics and a perhaps good gameplay - but not the gameplay we know and want.

The MP was very good at CT, a little less good in DA - but as it looks now, the MP of SCC will be like the SP in SCC - that means it will be an entirely different Gameplay. That's the problem: If we dont like the gameplay in the SP, then we wont like the gameplay in the MP.

Why cant you just hear, what the community says - It's a minority, but you cant please everyone. If someone wants to hide in the crowd, etc., he can buy Assassins Creed - but Splinter Cell Conviction isn't just Splinter Cell.

That's the same as if someone says that it's boring to kick the ball with the foot at soccer. If he wants to throw it with the hands, he can change to another sprot like basketball. But nobody would change the soccer-rules. You can transfer that so Splinter Cell: If I wanna hide in the crowd, then I should buy Assassins Creed, and not change the Gameplay of Splinter Cell to another game.

[simulacra]

It's montreals decision and they have decided, nothing to talk about really, they'we spent 2 years on SCC, they can't and won't go back.

[Killdozer0000]

If the devs want to earn back trust, I'd suggest by first apologizing for all of the bugs in Double Agent and the subsequent lack of support. Then I'd suggest explaining how even though they work for Ubisoft, they're not going to let this new game be forced out the door unfinished. Montreal, Shanghai, Annecy....who cares whose making this new game? With its latest releases, Ubisoft has shown itself to be a company that cares little about providing its PC customers with a quality product and so far noone from the company has said anything to suggest that the future will be any different. Conviction sounds fun to me. Too bad I won't be spending any money on it until its predecessor is patched or my money is refunded. I'd suggest anyone else who was burned by Double Agent do the same.

Don't let Ubi steal your money again.

[K-Xi]

I don't really understand something. If they will change every thing about SC, so why do they call this game "Splinter Cell"? Change it, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

[KhaosTheory2005]

I am a long time member. I don't post very often, however I frequent these forums since day 1 of the SC series. I have been reading and following the ConViction forums for a couple of days now and I just have to say something.

Everyone is so whiny...

I look at it this way. I fell in love with the first game. I still remember staying up all night and playing through missions and sitting in the complete darkness. I loved it.

I did the same for all of the rest of the games, but none ever brought that feeling back that I had from the first (ALTHOUGH I LOVED EVERY GAME). I am a true fan.

Enter change. So after 7 (SEVEN YEARS) they decide to switch it up. Great! Why not. I don't want bored dev's working on my game. Bored developers make crappy games. (I am a developer, not for UBI though.) And as for bringing in new talent... not a good idea either. I don't want someone with no experience working on the game either.

Open your mind a little and chill out. The game will be awesome, and 90% of you that are already saying 'I am not buying it' will end up buying it in the end. And for the other 10%... good. Don't buy it. I won't have a problem getting it @ release.

Peace out.

[MMusumeci]

I think you're right KhaosTheory, people need to chill out a lil bit. And we need to let the people that make the story for the new SC and maybe for other people that have the same job to free their mind and let them surprise us and entertain us. SCDA was not easy to make, this people had put two multiplayer modes (I THINK)and a single player mode.Its difficult to put all this in a game that have such great graphics and especially when the fans put pressure on them. In this game(Conviction)they decided to put thier imagination at work...their talent. And i'm sure they were thinking of the fans too.

[NuclearDragon]

i think convicitions is the best sp game ever to me.i like h2h kombat nd fighting!i am new here too.i hope it is not rated m coz that sux coz i am 14.gogo convictins!

[NuclearDragon]

hello how are you mister?are you new here too?

[simulacra]

It's rated M

[braiog]

For 'M'onkeyballs.

[Liquid_Mario]

Originally posted by NuclearDragon:
i think convicitions is the best sp game ever to me.i like h2h kombat nd fighting!i am new here too.i hope it is not rated m coz that sux coz i am 14.gogo convictins!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

way things going, the only people left on this forum will be people like this guy. Thats a really GOOD COMMUNITY!

[MMusumeci]

Doesn't matter if its rated M. I always buy ubi games from its store. I have been buying only ubi games for like the last two years.

P.S. And I have been in the forums for like since 2004. But I don't like forums coz' people always are fighting for stupid things. That's why I dont write a lot here.

[Peeter04]

Actually its nice to see so many people upset and refusing to buy this, because then the developer can't live on promises, like the last developer did with the previous game.

[Azev1992]

I Cant find any where else to put this so I am going to put it here.

The first thing that i have to say is that I really hope that Ubi does eventually fase the new SPC to PS3.

The Other thing that i have to say is that me (and I am sure many others in the world) would like it if you would add certain options like the choice to have excessive blood and swearing.(especially swearing) That is all i have to say now.

P.S Please consider this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[Azev1992]

QUOTE]I Cant find any where else to put this so I am going to put it here.

The first thing that i have to say is that I really hope that Ubi does eventually fase the new SPC to PS3.

The Other thing that i have to say is that me (and I am sure many others in the world) would like it if you would add certain options like the choice to have excessive blood and swearing.(especially swearing) That is all i have to say now.

P.S Please consider this [/QUOTE]

I noticed after reading this message that i messed up typing it.

When i said "The Other thing that i have to say is that me (and I am sure many others in the world) would like it if you would add certain options like the choice to have excessive blood and swearing"

I ment to say The Other thing that i have to say is that me (and I am sure many others in the world) would like it if you would add certain options like the choice to have excessive blood and swearing turned off

[MKCC14]

I never seen a game where you could turn off swearing. This game doesnt even need those options. Its an adult game, going to be rated M. Just like in R6V there was alot of blood and swearing and its rated M because its an adult game. We dont need any option to turn them off or on.

[Deg__]

Originally posted by Orph3O:
We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

Thanks for the reassuring post, Thomas! It's got me excited for what's to come.

Cheers,
- Deg -

[Azev1992]

I guess your right about the options to turn off blood and swearing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

But I know of two games where you can turn off the blood and swearing

Gears Of War and Ghost Recon (the first one)

I am sure that there are other games too

[NuclearDragon]

is dev going to say more??

[ninthintheline]

<span class="ev_code_purple"><Inappropriate content edited></span> I mean, clearly no-one has seen enough of the game to comment completely, so your arguments are ridiculous and immature. I have complete faith that Conviction will be absolutely mesmerising. I personally loved Double Agent and all Splinter Cell's before it. However, that said, I think the series is in need of some degree of change to ensure it's longevity. Conviction is right up there at the top of my most anticipated list, I can't wait. So everyone shut up and let the game speak for itself.

[SoFSpyy]

You know what? If Mathieu Ferland produced Chaos Theory, which was the best of the Splinter Cell series in my opinion, then I will put my faith in whatever he does with the Splinter Cell series! SC:CT was just a joy to play from beginning to end. Double Agent however was a disappointment not just because it was too easy, but because the AI could do cheap things like shoot at you through walls. So gay when you are walking in a corridor and you end up getting killed by a guy who shoots at you through the floor from the second floor! (apparently if you are in plain sight, anyone can shoot at you, even if they are behind what seem to be concrete walls to my eyes, so just being near an alerted enemy is enough to magnetize all shots fired) I guess they rushed that game, even with 1.02 the AI still does cheap things that spoil any realism. SC:CT was flawless in making sure the environment reacted realistically with the actors, and this the players could take for granted. I rarely stopped to gripe or complain about SC:CT because there were never any major bugs worth getting upset over, and this allowed me to always focus on surviving the mission and enjoying the experience! Shrapnel doesn't hit you if you take cover behind a wall. Bullets don't hit you if there is a bullet-resistant object between you. This wasn't the case with SChttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifA! I liked Enrica though. As a game, Chaos Theory was just unprecedented! I LOVE THAT GAME! You Rock Mathieu! I hope you gusy also bring back a coop-mode where you play in an AI-based mission.

[phil4321]

im going to hold off on ripping on this game until we get alot more info but judging by the fact that ubi

1)retires sam fisher
2)probably no multi purpose rifle for half of the missions
3)more than half of the missions are double agent involved
4)and every thing mentioned in the first post

its not loooking too good for my favorite series.

i hope the game is bug FREE for 2 reasons

1) it will give this game the best shot at being good
2)if ubi changes to much and the community hates the game than hopefully ubi will see it is their new gameplay we dislike and not the thousands of bugs like those that riddled SCDA.


this is the main problem of taking turns developing between shanghai and montreal. once the game is released and the community gets to give feedback about the new gameplay nothing can be done about the next game becasue its allreay too far into development. if montreal hadn't started convictions until they saw the feedback on DA we might not even be having this conversation. we would have to wait alot longer for the game but it might be a game that every single SC fan would be totally hyped to play and because its being done by montreal you know it would be a highly polished nearly bug free game to-boot.


-Phil

[FARLEYFAN]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<span class="ev_code_purple">The launch of this game is still far away. There will be plenty of time for you guys to make a decision before it's on store shelves, so instead of jumping to conclusions, be patient and keep an open mind. If by the time it comes out we haven't convinced you that this game will be worth playing, then so be it, but I urge you to HAVE SOME FAITH in the team that caused you to hang out on these forums in the first place. </span>

Funny, that is exactly what you said about DA. It sucked, I do not have high expectations for convicions. What is the matter with Ubi$oft... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

[marinius]

Originally posted by ninthintheline:
Why doesn't everyone just shut up, I mean, clearly no-one has seen enough of the game to comment completely, so your arguments are ridiculous and immature. I have complete faith that Conviction will be absolutely mesmerising. I personally loved Double Agent and all Splinter Cell's before it. However, that said, I think the series is in need of some degree of change to ensure it's longevity. Conviction is right up there at the top of my most anticipated list, I can't wait. So everyone shut up and let the game speak for itself.

Uhm yes, your arguments are anything but ridiculous and immature...you haven't seen any more than anybody else, yet you have "complete faith that Conviction will be absolutely mesmerising", wow, you've put us all in our place buddy! Maybe we *should* all shut up, why don't you start?

[ninthintheline]

<span class="ev_code_purple">Insulting other community members is against the Terms of Use and warrants a ban.</span>

[Chinese_Bookey]

Originally posted by ninthintheline:
I mean, clearly no-one has seen enough of the game to comment completely
http://www.kuvaton.com/kuvei/loppu_haamottaa.jpg

[Rhoulette]

I've got the feeling you (Rhoulette) are sending weekly a e-mail to someone at ubi about what's happening at SC forums and that person decides if the devs get's it. When that happens (I think once in 3 months) you are informed by small info and tell that to us to cool us down.


<span class="ev_code_purple">I can't blame you guys for not understanding my role in communicating things to the devs because I don't give a lot of visibility to the process. It would take everything twice as long for me if I narrated all of my actions on the forums, but I have thought of writing my life story, Memoirs of a Community Manager, to cast some light on how community feedback gets to the devs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Until I can get to writing that, please know that my job entails much more than a weekly email. For example, I was in Montreal last week and one of my tasks was to meet with developers about in-game features desired by community. I took a list with me that I had compiled from community feedback. Some of your feedback from Double Agent couldn't apply because of the inherent differences in ConViction, but much of your feedback was discussed and deemed valuable.

But just because the devs have ideas for features on their project lists DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE GUARANTEED TO BE INCLUDED!!! I'm sure we have some programmers and software designers around who can help me confirm that the typical development process involves cutting many features that were originally planned. It's inevitable given the time constraints of development, devs can't always do everything they wanted to do. That's life.

This is, however, another point in the dev process where my influence can come in to play. I try to help PRIORITIZE features based on how badly the community wants something. If we have Feature A, B, C, D, and E, but 2 of the 5 have to be cut, I fight for the ones that are most important for community. Now granted, I don't work out of the Montreal office so all my nagging has to be done through email, but I try to make up for that with frequency. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

One of the other things I help to do is coordinate post-launch support strategy. Post-launch support is governed by MANY different factors that I can't begin to scratch the surface of here today, but some of them include resources, timelines, game complexity, etc., and each dev studio has different measures of these things. We hold calls before the game's launch that are attended by people like the producers and members of the Ubi Support team. I communicate all the things that I anticipate will be crucial to community in the form of support. We discuss what things are possible and plan a timeline and strategy. After launch we have calls and exchange emails about any bugs and concerns that are being described on the forums and in emails/calls to Ubi Support, we then prioritize fixes based on what is possible. Lastly, I come to the forums to communicate what I can.

Hopefully this helps clarify things a tiny bit. </span>


But I DON'T like the fact that Splinter Cell: Conviction for PC will probably be another buggy, crappy port with no additional support whatsoever.

There'll probably be a patch or two, and "there you go kids, have phun, we're outta here".

Now I believe that Rhoulette will probably completely ignore this post, or she actually will reply, with a standard PR shyte "Oh, but you are completely wrong - We love the PC!".

<span class="ev_code_purple">I don't have anything to say about this right now. I absolutely plan to push our devs about supporting the PC version, and in my experience (from Chaos Theory), the Montreal dev team does a very good job anticipating these needs and are good at responding when we point out a problem being discussed on the forums. </span>


Then I'd suggest explaining how even though they work for Ubisoft, they're not going to let this new game be forced out the door unfinished. Montreal, Shanghai, Annecy....who cares whose making this new game? With its latest releases, Ubisoft has shown itself to be a company that cares little about providing its PC customers with a quality product and so far noone from the company has said anything to suggest that the future will be any different.

<span class="ev_code_purple">A different development studio can make a huge difference. As I said above, each development studio is dealing with it's own set of factors that influence how they make the game and how they support it after launch.

No company can expect to survive if they refuse to learn from past mistakes. The outcry of dissatisfaction from Double Agent has not gone ignored. On the contrary, the unhappiness of the community has been a common topic of discussion and, from what I have seen and heard, steps are being taken to improve the process. Ubi is a big company so I certainly only see a fraction of the gears turning for change, but I guarantee you that there are people around here who do intend to learn from the mistakes of the past, and I believe that's representative of the whole. </span>


is dev going to say more??

<span class="ev_code_purple">Actually, Thomas is on paternity leave as of last week! What timing, eh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif He will be back soon, but for the time being he is at home with his new baby like he should be. I know, I know... developers aren't supposed to have lives, they're only allowed to work on our games! I told him that but he didn't listen. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </span>

[IgGy001985]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But I DON'T like the fact that Splinter Cell: Conviction for PC will probably be another buggy, crappy port with no additional support whatsoever.

There'll probably be a patch or two, and "there you go kids, have phun, we're outta here".

Now I believe that Rhoulette will probably completely ignore this post, or she actually will reply, with a standard PR shyte "Oh, but you are completely wrong - We love the PC!".

<span class="ev_code_purple">I don't have anything to say about this right now. I absolutely plan to push our devs about supporting the PC version, and in my experience (from Chaos Theory), the Montreal dev team does a very good job anticipating these needs and are good at responding when we point out a problem being discussed on the forums. </span>


Then I'd suggest explaining how even though they work for Ubisoft, they're not going to let this new game be forced out the door unfinished. Montreal, Shanghai, Annecy....who cares whose making this new game? With its latest releases, Ubisoft has shown itself to be a company that cares little about providing its PC customers with a quality product and so far noone from the company has said anything to suggest that the future will be any different.

<span class="ev_code_purple">A different development studio can make a huge difference. As I said above, each development studio is dealing with it's own set of factors that influence how they make the game and how they support it after launch.

No company can expect to survive if they refuse to learn from past mistakes. The outcry of dissatisfaction from Double Agent has not gone ignored. On the contrary, the unhappiness of the community has been a common topic of discussion and, from what I have seen and heard, steps are being taken to improve the process. Ubi is a big company so I certainly only see a fraction of the gears turning for change, but I guarantee you that there are people around here who do intend to learn from the mistakes of the past, and I believe that's representative of the whole. </span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, thank you for responding to my post, I really respect that.

But, I have conspiracy theory of my own about Ubisoft and the PC platform, which actually starts with a question:

Why does Ubisoft continues to "support" the PC platform?

I mean, as far as I can see Ubisoft's games (not only Splinter Cell) for the PC, they are obviously just a financial expedinture.

- they are a direct console ports with extra content as bugs, lack of optimization and malfunctioning multiplayer services
- there's virtually no marketing budget for the PC version(s)
- they are aimed only for the high-end PC configurations
- they severely lack additional support

So, the obvious message from the Ubisoft team is - Yes, you can pay for the PC version, but you'll be sorry. And that's how we'll force you to buy the console version with which you'll get all the support you can imagine, you'll know that your version actually exists through ads, marketing campaings etc, you'll actually be able to play it because it'll be developed "exclusively" for your platform (not a silly port). And yes, you'll even get to play with your friends on the Internet.

Now, here's a thing.

I. DON'T. WANT. TO. BE. FORCED. TO. PLAY. A. DARNED. CONSOLE. VERSION.

Why?

BECAUSE. I. HAVE. A. DARNED. PC. TO. PLAY. ON.

So, if I payed a game as a "full priced" game, then I CERTAINLY WANT EVERY POSSIBLE SUPPORT THAT UBISOFT COULD PULL OF - AND THEY CERTAINLY PULLED IT OFF FOR THE CONSOLE VERSION.

I'm not interested where it was developed. Even if it was developed on darned Mars with a super-duper next-genish stuff... I. DON'T. CARE.

Thank you for reading.

[NuclearDragon]

thank you for your reply rhoulette nd i hope he has fun time on leave

[Killdozer0000]

I appreciate the reply to some of our concerns, but there's still really nothing to indicate that future Ubisoft PC releases will be any different. If Montreal really plans on learning from the mistakes of Double Agent, then that's great. Unfortunately for them, a lot of us won't be taking their word for it. I currently don't plan on purchasing any new Splinter Cell games until Double Agent runs on my computer and I'm sure I'm not alone.

If Ubisoft really has heard the outcry of dissatisfaction for Double Agent, then it's not too late to fix their mistakes. Id just released a new patch for Quake 4 today and that was released in Oct 2005, almost 2 years ago! Patch Double Agent or give us refunds. Only then does Ubisoft stand a chance of salvaging some of the respect and loyalty the PC community previously had for their name.

[simulacra]

Fact remains, the definition of "port" is abit to loose for discussion here imo.
Fact: The PC and xbox share the same API, is it then logical to have 2 devteams doing the exact same thing? Splinter cell doesn't really have any advantage in being dev:ed totally separate in 2 different studios like graw was, a milsim game are working in a different kind of enviroment where the game enviroment realy has to be vastly diferent on the 2 different platforms.
In less realistic titles like SC the xbox/pc gameplay isn't that different, there is no 1 shot 1 kill like in graw, you can take being shot, as long as you can control sam efficiently the game will work on many platforms wihtout actually having to be dev:ed by 2 different teams.

That is why I dislike the word "port" these days, the ports of old are gone, very few studios of rank does crappy quick conversions like mgs2 for pc and others like it.
Todays games are codev:ed, and rightly so, but that doesn't lend the studios the right to totally ignore the pc-specifics once the 2 versions have to be separated in some code, the first 3 titles was well supported on PC.
There is a reason to why us PC-players had to wait for our version once the game was completed for the consoles, manpower would have to be shifted for PC-specific bughunting, the builds had to be extensively tested on different configs etc.
It's MUCH easier to hunt for bugs when the platform is as well defined as in consoles, hopefully the "games for windows" will make it easier for devs to have less problems with testing and bughunting.

[phil4321]

im thankful that Rhoulette posts on here and tries to keep us somewhat out of the dark, and some of you guys need to lay off with your pointless BS.

also thank you for passing on our ideas

ON THE OTHER HAND THOUGH, i think what really needs to be done is have a head dev come on here, start a stickied thread that says "POST YOUR IDEAS FOR THE NEXT SC" or have a forum admin start it and make sure the devs are aware of it.

i have faith that this community would build a thread full of nothing but ideas for the game. maybe thats putting to much trust in some of you people that would post garbage like "oh wow a ubi dev on the boards its about time"

thats probably the main reason they don't come on here is because immature little kids cant keep their mouths shut and stay on topic. if i were disrespected on here as much as the ubi devs i wouldn't come around either. i wish they would tell us that too, instead of getting forum admins to tell us their too busy to sit down at the computer for 15 minutes and give us some updates and receive feedback.

such a thread would need to be closely monitored every day, multiple times per day and delete any posts that are not directly related to game play ideas.

i think that there should be a warning to all members in the post that says post only ideas or nothing at all or you will get a temp ban. if you do it again you get a longer ban, then 3 strikes and your out...goodbye and dont come back. the kind of people that disobey the rules are not the kind of people we want here anyway.

@rhoulette, im not sure how in the loop you are when it comes to the games but if you are aware of WHEN or IF SC6 is going to be made you should start such a thread with such strict rules. if you need someone to watch/modderate that particular thread so closley i voulunteer (i know your busy) to do it and send you names of people that need a good banning

-Phil

edit: it would be excellent if in someway people could vote "like" or "dislike" for each persons idea. maybe the best way to do this is not with a thread but with a completely separate board (strictly for SC6 ideas and ONLY SC6 ideas) then each person can start a poll, post their ideas and then every one can vote so the ubi devs can see in a bar graph whether the community like the idea and wants to see it implemented or not,

[stavros_27]

We represent a minority of their fanbase. They want to get new fans. They know the ones here will already be buying the games, or be interested anyway. Their plans are to expand the fanbase, not to isolate it and keep the same group while not making more money. Using the same old formula is not going to increase sales consistently for a series like this one.

[phil4321]

unfortunately for ubi they need to realize that this style of game won't intrigue all people. some gamers simply cant play this game. like my brother for instance, who loads up a level and the first thing that he wants to do is liquefy someones spine with a shotgun blast point blank. alot of people just don't like stealth action.

[Vth_F_Smith_]

Originally posted by phil4321:
unfortunately for ubi they need to realize that this style of game won't intrigue all people. some gamers simply cant play this game. like my brother for instance, who loads up a level and the first thing that he wants to do is liquefy someones spine with a shotgun blast point blank. alot of people just don't like stealth action. That's why there are now even more options available. You can play the game "chairs/guns/printers etc. blazing" (of course this might result in some uncomfortable consequences), stealthy or in a more natural/normal way.

Just like in every previous Splinter Cell game - it's you who decides the way you want to play the game - the devs are simply offering you the tools. Just to give you a small example, Mathieu once used in an interview:

If you want to use a chair you have various options on how you want to use it. Do you want to throw it? Do you want to take it and leave some impact on other NPC heads? Or do you simply want to sit / stand on it? It's your decision - now even more than ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Or for another example - the Hot Dog stand.

Sure, you can lure guards away from a position by blowing the stand up, but you don't have to. Maybe if you steal the radio from a cop and then place it somewhere near a guard, it might get his attention and lure him away. The game basically puts you in a specific situation and then asks you: "Ok, what now? How do you want to react?" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil4321:
unfortunately for ubi they need to realize that this style of game won't intrigue all people. some gamers simply cant play this game. like my brother for instance, who loads up a level and the first thing that he wants to do is liquefy someones spine with a shotgun blast point blank. alot of people just don't like stealth action. That's why there are now even more options available. You can play the game "chairs/guns/printers etc. blazing" (of course this might result in some uncomfortable consequences), stealthy or in a more natural/normal way.

Just like in every previous Splinter Cell game - it's you who decides the way you want to play the game - the devs are simply offering you the tools. Just to give you a small example, Mathieu once used in an interview:

If you want to use a chair you have various options on how you want to use it. Do you want to throw it? Do you want to take it and leave some impact on other NPC heads? Or do you simply want to sit / stand on it? It's your decision - now even more than ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Or for another example - the Hot Dog stand.

Sure, you can lure guards away from a position by blowing the stand up, but you don't have to. Maybe if you steal the radio from a cop and then place it somewhere near a guard, it might get his attention and lure him away. The game basically puts you in a specific situation and then asks you: "Ok, what now? How do you want to react?" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
MANY, many, many people dont realize that. They see something in the trailer, and they think they will be forced to do it, no matter what. Geez, people, this isn't Splinter Cell 1. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Vth_F_Smith_]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
MANY, many, many people dont realize that. They see something in the trailer, and they think they will be forced to do it, no matter what. Geez, people, this isn't Splinter Cell 1. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I know and I have to admit that the trailer focused so much on the various new action-based features, that it didn't show the many stealth possibilities the game now has to offer. The live presentation which you were able to see during the ubidays event on ubidays.com (I think it's still there, so give it a try) did a much better job, I think (especially since Mathieu did a great job explaining the depth of the new gameplay).

However, I understand why Thomas and the rest decided to use the first trailer - it simply attracts new people which were previously not interested in the stealth-action genre and opens a lot of space for discussions! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Originally posted by Rhoulette:
Ubi is a big company so I certainly only see a fraction of the gears turning for change, but I guarantee you that there are people around here who do intend to learn from the mistakes of the past, and I believe that's representative of the whole. Exactly! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Brownsnakeeyes]

Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by phil4321:
unfortunately for ubi they need to realize that this style of game won't intrigue all people. some gamers simply cant play this game. like my brother for instance, who loads up a level and the first thing that he wants to do is liquefy someones spine with a shotgun blast point blank. alot of people just don't like stealth action.

That's why there are now even more options available. You can play the game "chairs/guns/printers etc. blazing" (of course this might result in some uncomfortable consequences), stealthy or in a more natural/normal way.
<span class="ev_code_RED">So basically it's going to probably be like mercenaries, where you are given a mission or objective to do something and then you have multiple ways of completing it. The only problem I have with that is the fact that all games like don't specialize in just one thing like stealth or "blazing". They tend to dilute both and either one isn't really that good.

I've played mercenaries and I really hope that it doesn't turn into something like that. But since I have seen explosions in Conviction it leads me to believe that in fact this is where the SC series is headed. I'm sure it will have stealth. But it won't be all about stealth, which this series is known for.

I also must say that CT is the only SC game before DA to try and let the player go in guns blazing. This is evident with the addition of the shotgun and noisy sniper. So basically UBi is trying to attract the deathmatch crowd along with the regular fans. Which that explains why we are now seeing more CQC moves. And no more silenced weapons.

But of course we haven't seen everything yet I guess. But I still believe that this is where the series is headed. If Conviction has any success then you can bet that UBI will most likely move closer to the same gameplay of a mercenary type of game. More or less a sand box game. </span>

Just like in every previous Splinter Cell game - it's you who decides the way you want to play the game - the devs are simply offering you the tools. <span class="ev_code_RED">Actually going guns a blazing in SC 1&2 would get you killed. Sure you can go blazing in, but you won't last that long because you don't have that many life packs and ammo.</span> Just to give you a small example, Mathieu once used in an interview:

If you want to use a chair you have various options on how you want to use it. Do you want to throw it? Do you want to take it and leave some impact on other NPC heads? Or do you simply want to sit / stand on it? It's your decision - now even more than ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <span class="ev_code_RED">I'm just wondering why they didn't apply this way of thinking towards what CT had already brought. I really don't buy the reason they gave us for changing the gameplay. They could have applied the same way of thinking to the shadow/light gameplay too. They could've made the AI smarter with dealing with shadows/light. Maybe using flashlights a little better. Then throwing chairs or books could have been changed to other objects around the area of the maps. They already gave us the ability to throw bottles and cans. I also seem to remember being able to knock out the enemy with those things. So what's the difference if they would've just added the abilities that have been put into Conviction into a CT clone with much better AI and shadow/light casting?</span>

Or for another example - the Hot Dog stand.

Sure, you can lure guards away from a position by blowing the stand up, but you don't have to. <span class="ev_code_RED">This is the explosion example.</span> Maybe if you steal the radio from a cop and then place it somewhere near a guard, it might get his attention and lure him away. The game basically puts you in a specific situation and then asks you: "Ok, what now? How do you want to react?" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> <span class="ev_code_RED">Just like I mentioned earlier it's going to be like mercenaries. You'll have a few objectives and given multiple options on how you achieve those goals. I see the stealth getting diluted to the point that it will get old and stale. And then people will try going in guns a blazen and have more fun with it. The new gameplay videos that I've sen with CQC confirms my belief that this is going to be an arcade title. Nothing more. Just a crowd stealth system that will be very limited by the stupid AI.

Because lets all face it, the AI in games aren't really all that smart. I don't see where UBI will be able to make the AI so smart or hard to give us a continued challenge three months after getting the game. And this isn't even counting the multiplayer either. And if the AI is anywhere to being good, the other parts of the game will suffer. I also have a feeling this game will be a short one.</span>

[Rhoulette]

<span class="ev_code_purple">Good discussion, everyone! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Keep it up. </span>

[FARLEYFAN]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:


<span class="ev_code_purple"> how community feedback gets to the devs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

</span>

Wait a minute! Our feedback actually gets to the devs? Sure as hell doesn't look like it. If they had any idea at all, then they would have spy vs merc in convictions. I may not even rent this game if it doesn't have it.

[Brownsnakeeyes]

Originally posted by FARLEYFAN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rhoulette:


<span class="ev_code_purple"> how community feedback gets to the devs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

</span>

Wait a minute! Our feedback actually gets to the devs? Sure as hell doesn't look like it. If they had any idea at all, then they would have spy vs merc in convictions. I may not even rent this game if it doesn't have it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure the feedback does get to them. But the way I look at the situation is that the devs are trying to move the series into a place that will bring in more people. Which means those people that don't like stealth. It's as simple as that.

Because what stealth fan doesn't or hasn't played a SC game?

So basically when you are watching a video or reading an article of the devs and they say they're trying to reach more people, think of this.

If there trying to reach more people then there trying to reach people that aren't fans of stealth games. That's why SC will become deluted with time.

This is why we are seeing more CQC in Conviction. And I'm pretty sure that Conviction will be some what a success because most people will just buy it without looking into if the game is good or not.Or at least the people that don't come to these forums.

I will most likely not purchase Conviction. But I will be looking into what AC offers.

I'm just not convinced that Conviction's AI will be any better than other SC games. I also see it becoming very repetitive.

[dznrgnsgrl]

Hi there Thomas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Well I must admit I would have never believed it if I had not seen it with my own eyes. This new splinter cell game looks fantastic but strangely enough the new Sam Fischer looks almost identical to my significant other. He had recently picked up the Issue 176 of the Edge and eventually turned to the Conviction spread. I was amazed at the likeness right down to his every day dress. So I guess if you guys are in need of a real life Sam Fischer, you know where to find him.

Take a look for yourself...
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=n509314021743718462rf1.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0047bg1.jpg

and
http://img252.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0045zs2.jpg

[FARLEYFAN]

Assassins Creed will probably take the place of Splinter Cell in my book. Doing the right thing with their series - I think it will be a series - and making it freaking awesome. If they throw in a Assassins vs Guards mode for online, then I will probably never touch a Splinter Cell game again. Assassin's Creed features stealth, assassinating, and coolness - Just like CT and PT...

[legacyzero]

LMFAO!! @ dznrgnsgrl

[dann2004]

Originally posted by Zedblade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orph3O:
Hi Everyone,

Thomas here, from the ConViction Team in Montreal.


We just wanted to give you a little heads up.

When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward... because we believe that we have something exciting to propose you, a new gameplay, that we hope will excite you as much as the Light and Shadow that we created 7 years ago.
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy. Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

All I can say is that we are the original Splinter Team, we are working towards the same standards of gameplay originality and polish, and we hope that as we will provide more info, that you will understand better our objectives and realize that we are not trying to create a subpar splinter cell, but an exciting stealth game, with Sam Fisher, in the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell universe.
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.
We needed to experience new things, we wanted to challenge ourselves and by doing so, are challenging you. We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

Cheers !

PS: as I am writing this post, a screen two rows in front of me is displaying only the Ambiant Occlusion effects (nothing else) of a map... who said we didn't have shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Thomas
Orph3O

Ordo Ab Chaos

Good job alienating pretty much all SC fans. Way to ruin a franchise.

I'm not buying conviction. I didn't buy DA becuase of the numerious bugs and for the fact the MP was horrible and a insult to the vets from CT.

Release a stand alone Splinter Cell MP game that is based off of PT/CT's 2v2 Spies vs. Mercs and you will get me back as a customer.

That is if you actually have anything to do with Ubisoft and arn't just some lamer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>amen

[zmanster]

clearly none of you have plaed da beacause story wise its smart. have you seen a guy in a black jump suit with night gogs walking around in a park thats a little weird and were will he get that stuff. i am really exicited about scc and want it for chistmas.

p.s.are they brining the knife back?

p.s.s.will it out before or on christmas

[marinius]

Originally posted by zmanster:
clearly none of you have plaed da beacause story wise its smart. have you seen a guy in a black jump suit with night gogs walking around in a park thats a little weird and were will he get that stuff. i am really exicited about scc and want it for chistmas.



No, clearly none of us have. You're most likely the only one sir! Because if we did play it, then we surely would agree with you, right?

[zmanster]

thank you and have you played it? i am courious about lambert. i think you should steal cars to run them into stands and other things. the thing is that sam is a wanted criminal who is still trying to stop a conspici. but he is a criminal. and will it be for xbox and 360?

[wallz0r]

Originally posted by zmanster:
i think you should steal cars to run them into stands and other things.

I'll pretend that I haven't read that.And to answer your last question,the game will be Xbox360 and PC exclusive.

[NuclearDragon]

i agree with stealing cars nd hitting persons nd robbing shobs.maybe you can get extra money to buy guns at the blak market

[Llamaguy2010]

yeah how about we dont flame someone on their opinions eh? so what he has a few spelling mistakes, it doesnt make us a bad person

[zmanster]

i did not mean like steal a car and really drive i meant like hit the car in front of it. and i am not the only one who cant spell.

[FARLEYFAN]

I don't think cars belong in SC, they belong in halo, gta, pgr, and forza. Maybe hiding under cars, but other than that, not at all.

[matt01992k9]

i think first you should totally copy everything you consider as successful, like MGS an 24, and other movies. make sam look exactly like snake. then you should be able to get in cars, get prostitutes for health, recruit gang members, beat people up for money, totally take out the spy gameplay, throw consumers some wacky story they dont care about.

totally ruin the franchise and totally $h!t on the coolest game character ever that was sam fisher.

then you will have a bad@ss game.

make sure you can do awesome stuff like drop a cell phone around a corner.

[matt01992k9]

cuz we all know cell phones are suspicious. its the soviets, theyre coming and theyre all on cell phones

[lochang19]

Originally posted by matt01992k9:
totally take out the spy gameplay, throw consumers some wacky story they dont care about.

totally ruin the franchise and totally $h!t on the coolest game character ever that was sam fisher.

then you will have a bad@ss game.

make sure you can do awesome stuff like drop a cell phone around a corner.

Zomg! Liek conViction!?

You should've trademarked the idea, UBI beat you to it!

[Agentfisher2006]

Atleast you guys will make it better than those Shanghai who ruined DA so I am sure Conviction will be a good game and its time for something new.

[swlaurie]

Some of you people on here who are *****ing about "it isn't SC or SCPT or SCCT" really need to grow up. I didn't have high hopes for DA when I first saw that some of the missions were going to be in broad daylight, that Sam was going to have limited access to his gadgets and arsenal. But you know what? I played the game and I liked the change. Sure, Ubi could go and make Splinter Cell:Regurgitation and hash out the same scenarios but I think the development team is dead on with what they are doing and where they see the franchise headed AT THIS POINT IN TIME. It makes sense for Sam to be doing what he is doing if you follow the storyline after DA. And for him to do what he is doing in Conviction, something obviously needed to change. Here we have him on the run from the very government he worked for. He doesn't have access to the gadgets he had so readily available in the first 5 games so he needs to improvise. And I believe the dev team knows Sam better than us players, so they are simply following the logical progression of what Sam would do...

[marinius]

Originally posted by swlaurie:
Some of you people on here who are *****ing about "it isn't SC or SCPT or SCCT" really need to grow up. I didn't have high hopes for DA when I first saw that some of the missions were going to be in broad daylight, that Sam was going to have limited access to his gadgets and arsenal. But you know what? I played the game and I liked the change. Sure, Ubi could go and make Splinter Cell:Regurgitation and hash out the same scenarios but I think the development team is dead on with what they are doing and where they see the franchise headed AT THIS POINT IN TIME. It makes sense for Sam to be doing what he is doing if you follow the storyline after DA. And for him to do what he is doing in Conviction, something obviously needed to change. Here we have him on the run from the very government he worked for. He doesn't have access to the gadgets he had so readily available in the first 5 games so he needs to improvise. And I believe the dev team knows Sam better than us players, so they are simply following the logical progression of what Sam would do...

Thanks for stating your opinion swlaurie. I know I for one value a first time poster who doesn't pussyfoot around but really sets us, who need to grow up, straight.

[Jinx FD]

Hey guys, just a couple things:

* Please don't evade the word filter. It's there for a reason.

* Please try to keep this on topic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There are a LOT of threads where you can discuss what you think of the changes to the game with each other. There aren't any other threads to respond (civilly, please) to Orph3O about his letter to the Splinter Cell community.

* Please be respectful to one another. When you descend to personal attacks any valid points you may have go out the window.

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

[Knot3D]

Ubisoft,

If you really think this is the right direction for this game, then why didn't you officially renamed it into something like Sam Fisher : The Conviction

If you are so sincere about this concept then you'd do without the Splinter Cell name just as you abandoned the vintage SC gameplay. Or is that too sales sensitive all of a sudden ?

[wallz0r]

Originally posted by Knot3D:

Or is that too sales sensitive all of a sudden?

I think that's the real reason. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

[Buck_Rogers007]

All I can say is "here we go again". I was a GR and GRIT fan hardcore then GR2 came out it was so changed i hated it. It seemed to mix alot of RB6 into GR. I never really liked Rainbow6 at all until RB6 Vegas, and its not my favorite its just ok. But i hear alot of RB6 fans say its too much like GR now.
But with Splintercell i always thought it was safe from change because there's nothing like it. Its unique. But wait Assassin's Creed is coming out soon... who makes that? UBI!!! Look at that assassin walking through the crowds. Why does each game Ubi make have to be similar to eachother? Why cant Splintercell be Splintercell, Assassins Creed be Assassins Creed and GR be GR? If i wanna be an assassin walking in broad daylight mixing with crowds i'll play Assassins Creed. If i wanna be a splintercell working for secret government infiltrating in the shadows cant i just play splintercell?

[Chinese_Bookey]

I very much agree. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[simulacra]

Yes, all crowd games are the same, AC, SCC, kane & lynch, heavenly sword has a lot of enemies, that's a crowd.
It couldn't just be so that crowd interaction is a part of what is called "next gen" no?
*sigh*
AC != same gameplay as SCC, they share CROWDS, nothing else, the interaction you have in AC is different.

[Buck_Rogers007]

I dont think you see my point. Im not saying they have the same game play. But like GR and Rainbow tried to add elements of each other. Not making them have exactly same game play just similar. Now with splintercell look how much they had to change the game to add the "crowd element" of AC.

[matt01992k9]

Originally posted by swlaurie:I think the development team is dead on with what they are doing and where they see the franchise headed AT THIS POINT IN TIME. It makes sense for Sam to be doing what he is doing if you follow the storyline after DA. And for him to do what he is doing in Conviction, something obviously needed to change. Here we have him on the run from the very government he worked for. He doesn't have access to the gadgets he had so readily available in the first 5 games so he needs to improvise. And I believe the dev team knows Sam better than us players, so they are simply following the logical progression of what Sam would do...

oh wait where have i seen this before, oh yeah, Metal gear solid, and 24... hey is that Sam Snake!!!! the other brother!?!?!

[matt01992k9]

Originally posted by Knot3D:
Ubisoft,

If you really think this is the right direction for this game, then why didn't you officially renamed it into something like Sam Fisher : The Conviction

If you are so sincere about this concept then you'd do without the Splinter Cell name just as you abandoned the vintage SC gameplay. Or is that too sales sensitive all of a sudden ?

EXACTLY

if youre ruining sam fisher give us some new splinter cells to play as

not "the adventures of sam fisher in jail and running through crowds"

[matt01992k9]

Originally posted by Buck_Rogers007:
All I can say is "here we go again". I was a GR and GRIT fan hardcore then GR2 came out it was so changed i hated it. It seemed to mix alot of RB6 into GR. I never really liked Rainbow6 at all until RB6 Vegas, and its not my favorite its just ok. But i hear alot of RB6 fans say its too much like GR now.
But with Splintercell i always thought it was safe from change because there's nothing like it. Its unique. But wait Assassin's Creed is coming out soon... who makes that? UBI!!! Look at that assassin walking through the crowds. Why does each game Ubi make have to be similar to eachother? Why cant Splintercell be Splintercell, Assassins Creed be Assassins Creed and GR be GR? If i wanna be an assassin walking in broad daylight mixing with crowds i'll play Assassins Creed. If i wanna be a splintercell working for secret government infiltrating in the shadows cant i just play splintercell?

thats crazy i never even thought about the link between AC and SC5.

i bet they run a lot of the same code and everything for crowd AI, especially since they wre all bragging about the crowd AI being superior on 360, then this game is a 360/PC exclusive, hahahah

sad really

[zmanster]

here we go..... agin. it would be stupid to have sam sneaking around in his jumpsuit in the african embasy. its stupid because the government is trying to get him. WHY IS A CON SNEAKING AROUND IN A JUMP SUIT WITH NIGHT GOGS.
i mean you cant have him doing that stuff as a con.

[wallz0r]

But he can sneak without his equipment...I mean why throw away all that training and experience and turn into Rambo?...ow well that's just my opinion so don't flame me or anything http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[Knot3D]

Originally posted by zmanster:
here we go..... agin. it would be stupid to have sam sneaking around in his jumpsuit in the african embasy. its stupid because the government is trying to get him. WHY IS A CON SNEAKING AROUND IN A JUMP SUIT WITH NIGHT GOGS.
i mean you cant have him doing that stuff as a con.

In SC DA (old gen consoles) : Dufraisne (in a radio convo with Sam who asked where his equipment is, during the Kinsasha mission ) ; "Fisher, if you remain unseen you don't need your eequipment"

'nuff said

[RED_Hunter_00]

Originally posted by MKCC14:
(...)

I hope you're new challenges will excite and make us want you to improve on it possibly in Splinter Cell(6): <span class="ev_code_RED">DOuble Convicted</span>.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif What about Double Con<span class="ev_code_RED">VI</span>cted

[devilwolf1977]

i have been reading this post now and is it just me or are there alot of people on here that just want shadows and not a plot??

I have played all the splinter cells and am just getting into DA, yes ubi could release the same stuff with a diffrent story line, but how long would it be before everyone was asking for something a lil more challenging?

We have played the games, gotten to know Sam as a lone agent. I think the death of his daughter is a good way to turn, im sure DA progresses with more of a story line that would lead nicely into conViction, With a little bit of luck as we play the game, we will get the chance to clear sam from being an escaped prisoner and terrorist and bring the game back to its original format for an amazing finale.

Be honest, how many times have you played something like pandora or chaos and thought it would be cool if the enviroment was more interactive? I like the knife skills, its a nice change to the pistol.

So how about all the closed minds out there open up and at least see if the story is as good as it could be, try the demo when its released and THEN make a judgement call

[Buck_Rogers007]

devilwolf, I played the 360 version of DA and the lighted missions did not bother me. The only missions that bothered me was the JBA headquarter missions because they were slow paced and had to do em about 4 times. But the real thing in DA that bothered me WAS the plot(and the MP). like many have stated, the plot was not played out well at all for DA on 360 (and apparently PC too). And ConVictions is just a continuation of that. Why on earth would we welcome a game that continues off of DA for 360??? Besides the plot not being played out well, the ending was sooo incredibly unsatisfying. And i dont think ruining our heroes life was such a great way to turn plotwise.

[devilwolf1977]

is it not possible that they are trying to reflect life in the game? granted i cant say how DA ends at the moment, but its an intresting twist to it all. And again i think that conViction should at least be given a fair crack before all the judgements come out

[dznrgnsgrl]

Originally posted by legacyzero:
LMFAO!! @ dznrgnsgrl
You can LYFAO at me all you want...from looking at some of your other postings you sound like a 24 yr old with no life other than in front of a computer who just complains and moans. It sounds like you should maybe invest your time in learning how to make video games instead of complaining about the people who work their hardest at making what is currently available. GAL legacyzero! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

[Hypno1988]

Originally posted by dznrgnsgrl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by legacyzero:
LMFAO!! @ dznrgnsgrl
You can LYFAO at me all you want...from looking at some of your other postings you sound like a 24 yr old with no life other than in front of a computer who just complains and moans. It sounds like you should maybe invest your time in learning how to make video games instead of complaining about the people who work their hardest at making what is currently available. GAL legacyzero! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yay, resort to insults and prejudices when you feel that someone disagrees with you. Way to go!

[legacyzero]

Originally posted by dznrgnsgrl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by legacyzero:
LMFAO!! @ dznrgnsgrl
You can LYFAO at me all you want...from looking at some of your other postings you sound like a 24 yr old with no life other than in front of a computer who just complains and moans. It sounds like you should maybe invest your time in learning how to make video games instead of complaining about the people who work their hardest at making what is currently available. GAL legacyzero! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
ummmmm, I dunno why your attacking me, but I just laughed at somthing that you said about 7 pages ago. I dont know what your problem is, but get off my back toots.
Heeeeere lady ladyyyy. Got some tamps for yaaaaa. I was just trying to be friendly and laugh at what you said. But if you want to menstral **** about it, sorry lady, I got other annoying chicks to deal with. oh and by the way. WE PAY THEM!! And tell me why it is that all the other devs can fix their games. COD2 for instance. Lagged like hell for the first couple of months, they patched it, they fixed. End of story. UBI just insists on abandoning DA's problem, to produce yet another peice of **** MP wise. If others can do it, and UBI is WAY bigger than Infinity Ward. How is it that small fry like IW can fix their problems?? And thanks Hypno. I did absolutely nothing wrong to her. she just flamed the **** out of me for no reason.

As a matter of fact I know what I laughed at now. She posted on page six of this thread with pics of her "HUNNY" (feel sorry for him, poor guy) claiming that he was the spitting image of the new Sam Fisher. I laughed because, Oh ya, spitting image. If they were to make a flick on this game, I'm sure he could stand in line for casting and be considered. (Provided his cranky other half allows him to) Know what your barking at before you do it, and why, you stupid dog.

[Vth_F_Smith_]

Originally posted by legacyzero:
I did absolutely nothing wrong to her. she just flamed the **** out of me for no reason. And so you thought it would be necessary to return the flaming? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I strongely suggest that you think about this:

If someone is flaming you and you return it, how big are the chances that the flaming will ever end?

[marinius]

Originally posted by legacyzero:
I got other annoying chicks to deal with. oh and by the way. WE PAY THEM!!

Lol, you know, that's illegal in some countries legacy... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Btw, I agree with you, that was quite uncalled for what that lass fired at you mate.

[legacyzero]

Originally posted by marinius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by legacyzero:
I got other annoying chicks to deal with. oh and by the way. WE PAY THEM!!

Lol, you know, that's illegal in some countries legacy... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Btw, I agree with you, that was quite uncalled for what that lass fired at you mate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh wow. I didn't even think about that! I shoulda started another paragragh...... lol

[devilwolf1977]

legacyzero and dznrgnsgrl this is the way i look at these sorts of online "arguments"

its like taking part in the disabled olymipics....even if you win, your still ******ed

[manicman89]

Is this still a 360 exclusive game? If so why because I love playing SC and it or it's a real shame that it will not be making an appearance on the ps3

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by manicman89:
Is this still a 360 exclusive game? If so why because I love playing SC and it or it's a real shame that it will not be making an appearance on the ps3
Yes it is still an exclusive, and it wont come to another platform soon or even ever. Microsoft payed Ubi for it.

[EskimoBob32]

People seem to be forgetting that this is a videogame, not a movie. Storyline should NOT dictate gameplay. Sam ended the last game on the run, so in the next game it should be completely different because he's no longer a superspy, right? No, they should write into the storyline something about Sam going back to being part of Third Echelon, because THAT'S what makes a Splinter Cell game.

If a character from Grand Theft Auto turned legit and became a pro basketball player, should Rockstar then make a GTA game in which you control a basketball team? No, if they wanted to do that they'd make a separate franchise of basketball games.

Oh, and please don't flame me with things like "It's completely different!" or "Stop whining about it not being Splinter Cell!" because this is my opinion and there is no reason for me to not post it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[gtrlk003]

Well, this game will be revolutionary and I think that Ubisoft Montreal is doing right thing changing the gameplay... Hope that this wouldn't be something like Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness - interesting storyline but the thousands of bugs made this game almost impossible to play (of course Eidos has released some patches but it was for nothing becouse game engine was a piece of ****)

[sktuchifyde]

yeah..and if ConViction is a flop and the end of the series...there is always prequels(sp?)

[EskimoBob32]

Originally posted by sktuchifyde:
yeah..and if ConViction is a flop and the end of the series...there is always prequels(sp?)
Yeah, someone (I think braiog) was saying in another topic that Ubisoft said that's a real possibility if this flops.

[Roberto1223]

so if montreal wants to go through what shangai did but obviously evading the bad errors shangai did, does that mean that montreal wont pick up the storyline where the shangai dudes left it, and then wait for shangai team to fix their problems with the community on sc 6? or are they gonna try to fix what the shangai team already busted??

[Chinese_Bookey]

Actually, if Conviction flops, the devs said they'll probably go back to the vintage gameplay.

[Knot3D]

Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
Actually, if Conviction flops, the devs said they'll probably move forward with the vintage gameplay, evolving it.

fixed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Chinese_Bookey]

Point taken. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Crosmanuil]

I don't get what everyone thought was so wrong with DA and who says the devs are going to do it again plus I Loved SC because it has PASSION even Halo doesn't have the feeling and well thought out characters SC has. I fully suport the changes and think that if your going to scream at the devs that brought u SC-PT,CT(which you all seem to love) then you shouldn't even have the right to buy Conviction(ignoring the fact thats legally imposible) so if you have a problem tell them but DON'T GO SCREAMING AT THEM just because their most loyal fans(like me i guess) actually like the story as much or more than the game.

thanks,
crosman1

[pietjevlip]

I took my time to read all this, and I can come to only one conclusion: Gamers are generally too whiny when it comes to "changing" something in a franchise... they may be right, DA wasn't as good a step as CT has been, but when a Dev from Montreal asks for our trust, we should remember the last title developed by them, and not the last title of the franchise... as Montreal ain't responsible for the flops in DA, so don't blame them for it...

I myself am curious how they will fit the stealth into this, how to make it challenging enough for hard-core-SC-players when you have that many options.

I strongly suggest to whoever is making the trailers: We've seen the "active" part, now show us the "stealth". If you do, you might win the trust of most of the "doubters" around here...

But my curiosity does not mean that I will drop trust with the team... I think theydid a great job on SC and SCCT, and I hope SCC will live up to that... And that the minimum specs will not be that high!

Furthermore, I wish to point out to multiplayer-players: As we haven't seen the new multiplayer mode, we can't judge it to be worse than the SvsM mode in CT... Suppose you get more fun and challenge from the new introductive modes, would you keep saying that... I now Montreal can do great things, including multiplayer, so I don't think there is any reason they won't this time...

To Team: Untill now, jou done a great job, keep on doing so, and everyone might forget about mistakes made by others...

[shadownet_363]

Originally posted by Zedblade:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orph3O:
Hi Everyone,

Thomas here, from the ConViction Team in Montreal.


We just wanted to give you a little heads up.

When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward... because we believe that we have something exciting to propose you, a new gameplay, that we hope will excite you as much as the Light and Shadow that we created 7 years ago.
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy. Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

All I can say is that we are the original Splinter Team, we are working towards the same standards of gameplay originality and polish, and we hope that as we will provide more info, that you will understand better our objectives and realize that we are not trying to create a subpar splinter cell, but an exciting stealth game, with Sam Fisher, in the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell universe.
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.
We needed to experience new things, we wanted to challenge ourselves and by doing so, are challenging you. We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

Cheers !

PS: as I am writing this post, a screen two rows in front of me is displaying only the Ambiant Occlusion effects (nothing else) of a map... who said we didn't have shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Thomas
Orph3O

Ordo Ab Chaos

Good job alienating pretty much all SC fans. Way to ruin a franchise.

I'm not buying conviction. I didn't buy DA becuase of the numerious bugs and for the fact the MP was horrible and a insult to the vets from CT.

Release a stand alone Splinter Cell MP game that is based off of PT/CT's 2v2 Spies vs. Mercs and you will get me back as a customer.

That is if you actually have anything to do with Ubisoft and arn't just some lamer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif i totaly agree,chaos theory was by far the best in the series,if ubi montreal can produce a new sc game of that quality and caliber that would be sweet,and for the sake of cheese dont let ubi shaghai get their mits on it after pandora tomorow i lost complete faith in ubi shanghai

[AgentXVII]

Originally posted by Crosmanuil:...just because their most loyal fans(like me i guess) actually like the story as much or more than the game.

I actually agree with this. For me the characters and storyline have always been an important part of what draws me to the franchise. I liked the way that as the games have continued, Sam's character and the whole storyline has evolved.

People are saying that this is a videogame, not a movie, but there's a reason that films have a larger following than games, and the story is a big part of that. I'm not saying that I don't want there to be another light and shadow SC game, I think it'd be cool if they could do some more with that when the tech gets better, but first I want them to finish the arc they started with DA.

What was so wrong with DA anyway? There was stealth, action, dark and shadow use, all the things from the other games. Plus it had the decision process, one of the most interesting story-lines from a character perspective and one of the most compelling endings of the entire franchise.

Are all the complaints centred around MP? I've always felt that SCs single player mode was vastly superior to the MP one. MP was a nice distraction, but it was the storyline and characters of SP that kept me coming back for more.

I don't know if they're are any more like me and Crosmanuil out there, but I will certainly be buying SC:C. I want to follow Sam as a fugitive, learn to play with a new type of stealth, can't wait to see crowds in action, the three button system if it makes it to final release. I want to sneak around an office without the aid of shadows to protect me.

For me this game is like Ubisoft saying "Ok, you've sneaked around in the shadows, had a guard walk past micrometres from your nose, but you've always known this wasn't realistic. No-one lights a corridor so there's great big shadows all around. And shadows are hardly enough to hide a man properly. Here's you chance to try it for real, you can't hide for long, got to keep moving, got to use objects to hide behind. Keep moving, keep thinking, that's the name of the game."

So, calling all freaks, any like minded individuals out there? Ready for the next SC challenge? I know I am. Bring it on.

[pietjevlip]

Don't worry, me too... for those MP-fans: maybe you'd search for a map-pack for CT or DA...

[Vth_F_Smith_]

Originally posted by AgentXVII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crosmanuil:...just because their most loyal fans(like me i guess) actually like the story as much or more than the game.

I actually agree with this. For me the characters and storyline have always been an important part of what draws me to the franchise. I liked the way that as the games have continued, Sam's character and the whole storyline has evolved.

People are saying that this is a videogame, not a movie, but there's a reason that films have a larger following than games, and the story is a big part of that. I'm not saying that I don't want there to be another light and shadow SC game, I think it'd be cool if they could do some more with that when the tech gets better, but first I want them to finish the arc they started with DA.

What was so wrong with DA anyway? There was stealth, action, dark and shadow use, all the things from the other games. Plus it had the decision process, one of the most interesting story-lines from a character perspective and one of the most compelling endings of the entire franchise.

Are all the complaints centred around MP? I've always felt that SCs single player mode was vastly superior to the MP one. MP was a nice distraction, but it was the storyline and characters of SP that kept me coming back for more.

I don't know if they're are any more like me and Crosmanuil out there, but I will certainly be buying SC:C. I want to follow Sam as a fugitive, learn to play with a new type of stealth, can't wait to see crowds in action, the three button system if it makes it to final release. I want to sneak around an office without the aid of shadows to protect me.

For me this game is like Ubisoft saying "Ok, you've sneaked around in the shadows, had a guard walk past micrometres from your nose, but you've always known this wasn't realistic. No-one lights a corridor so there's great big shadows all around. And shadows are hardly enough to hide a man properly. Here's you chance to try it for real, you can't hide for long, got to keep moving, got to use objects to hide behind. Keep moving, keep thinking, that's the name of the game."

So, calling all freaks, any like minded individuals out there? Ready for the next SC challenge? I know I am. Bring it on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[Jackie Fiest]

Originally posted by AgentXVII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crosmanuil:...just because their most loyal fans(like me i guess) actually like the story as much or more than the game.

I actually agree with this. For me the characters and storyline have always been an important part of what draws me to the franchise. I liked the way that as the games have continued, Sam's character and the whole storyline has evolved.

People are saying that this is a videogame, not a movie, but there's a reason that films have a larger following than games, and the story is a big part of that. I'm not saying that I don't want there to be another light and shadow SC game, I think it'd be cool if they could do some more with that when the tech gets better, but first I want them to finish the arc they started with DA.

What was so wrong with DA anyway? There was stealth, action, dark and shadow use, all the things from the other games. Plus it had the decision process, one of the most interesting story-lines from a character perspective and one of the most compelling endings of the entire franchise.

Are all the complaints centred around MP? I've always felt that SCs single player mode was vastly superior to the MP one. MP was a nice distraction, but it was the storyline and characters of SP that kept me coming back for more.

I don't know if they're are any more like me and Crosmanuil out there, but I will certainly be buying SC:C. I want to follow Sam as a fugitive, learn to play with a new type of stealth, can't wait to see crowds in action, the three button system if it makes it to final release. I want to sneak around an office without the aid of shadows to protect me.

For me this game is like Ubisoft saying "Ok, you've sneaked around in the shadows, had a guard walk past micrometres from your nose, but you've always known this wasn't realistic. No-one lights a corridor so there's great big shadows all around. And shadows are hardly enough to hide a man properly. Here's you chance to try it for real, you can't hide for long, got to keep moving, got to use objects to hide behind. Keep moving, keep thinking, that's the name of the game."

So, calling all freaks, any like minded individuals out there? Ready for the next SC challenge? I know I am. Bring it on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif hear hear!! Very well said.

[timmieboy2]

Originally posted by AgentXVII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Crosmanuil:...just because their most loyal fans(like me i guess) actually like the story as much or more than the game.

I actually agree with this. For me the characters and storyline have always been an important part of what draws me to the franchise. I liked the way that as the games have continued, Sam's character and the whole storyline has evolved.

People are saying that this is a videogame, not a movie, but there's a reason that films have a larger following than games, and the story is a big part of that. I'm not saying that I don't want there to be another light and shadow SC game, I think it'd be cool if they could do some more with that when the tech gets better, but first I want them to finish the arc they started with DA.

What was so wrong with DA anyway? There was stealth, action, dark and shadow use, all the things from the other games. Plus it had the decision process, one of the most interesting story-lines from a character perspective and one of the most compelling endings of the entire franchise.

Are all the complaints centred around MP? I've always felt that SCs single player mode was vastly superior to the MP one. MP was a nice distraction, but it was the storyline and characters of SP that kept me coming back for more.

I don't know if they're are any more like me and Crosmanuil out there, but I will certainly be buying SC:C. I want to follow Sam as a fugitive, learn to play with a new type of stealth, can't wait to see crowds in action, the three button system if it makes it to final release. I want to sneak around an office without the aid of shadows to protect me.

For me this game is like Ubisoft saying "Ok, you've sneaked around in the shadows, had a guard walk past micrometres from your nose, but you've always known this wasn't realistic. No-one lights a corridor so there's great big shadows all around. And shadows are hardly enough to hide a man properly. Here's you chance to try it for real, you can't hide for long, got to keep moving, got to use objects to hide behind. Keep moving, keep thinking, that's the name of the game."

So, calling all freaks, any like minded individuals out there? Ready for the next SC challenge? I know I am. Bring it on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif (Hopes no-one noticed i don't really agree but just trying to be cool)

[Frelli.]

What was so wrong with DA anyway?
Hmm .. all the bugs that made it unplayable (talking PC version)? No updates fixed it either. DA is already history for UBI.

[AgentXVII]

Ah. I've only played the XBox version. From what I've been reading, the 360 version was recieved less well than the XBox version. Not sure about the PC version, but if it was full of bugs, they should've at least had the decency to patch it properly.

[LennardF1989]

Be honest people, we need something new.

I'm a BIG (note: REALLY BIG) fan of Splinter Cell since the very first game, I love the sneaking a lot. You all forget, that even though Da had much light and less shadows (which was kinda cool), you still have the sneaking around! Which is the real apsect of Splinter Cell, even without a shadow, you are still able to sneak around, but while holding your heart hoping your not getting detected.

Take the Kinshasa mission for example, daylight, couple of shadows, a lot of small entrancesand hiding places. Even though it misses the shadows, ITS STILL A LOVELY AND WONDERFULL Splinter Cell level where you can have fun sneaking around.

I'm sure of it that the same thing I mostly like (sneaking around without getting detected) will get back in Conviction... You all seem to forget that this is a SC game, and not a Hitman game were you have so much crowded areas... Even though there will be some of those levels, I''m sure there are also levels as seen in previous games.

I actually cannot wait to buy Conviction to see how it turned out.

LennardF1989, A devoted fan :P

PS. Splinter Cell isn't really a game, but a challenge, a challenge to finish a level as a real spy, undetected and unseen, the daylight mission make that much more of a challenge than darker levels where you can hide yourself every inch...

[marinius]

Originally posted by LennardF1989:
You all forget, that even though Da had much light and less shadows (which was kinda cool), you still have the sneaking around! Which is the real apsect of Splinter Cell, even without a shadow, you are still able to sneak around, but while holding your heart hoping your not getting detected.

Take the Kinshasa mission for example, daylight, couple of shadows, a lot of small entrancesand hiding places. Even though it misses the shadows, ITS STILL A LOVELY AND WONDERFULL Splinter Cell level where you can have fun sneaking around.


Well, what you state so insistently is merely your opinion. To my mind, the biggest problem with DA was the daylight missions. Why? Because the game still used the old core mechanics of L&S-sneaking which didn't work well at all outdoors in the light. You say it yourself, you had to simply hope not to be spotted as the new "stealth metre" was basically useless and the level design didn't fit the needs for the new daylight play.

This game is something of a hybrid in that it couldn't decide what it wanted to be, a little of the old SC and a little of what seems to be the new SC - running around in daylight. Although I'm sceptical of SCC, I believe it'll be a better game than DA because it will likely represent a complete break with classic SC-gameplay.

[LennardF1989]

Originally posted by marinius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LennardF1989:
You all forget, that even though Da had much light and less shadows (which was kinda cool), you still have the sneaking around! Which is the real apsect of Splinter Cell, even without a shadow, you are still able to sneak around, but while holding your heart hoping your not getting detected.

Take the Kinshasa mission for example, daylight, couple of shadows, a lot of small entrancesand hiding places. Even though it misses the shadows, ITS STILL A LOVELY AND WONDERFULL Splinter Cell level where you can have fun sneaking around.


Well, what you state so insistently is merely your opinion. To my mind, the biggest problem with DA was the daylight missions. Why? Because the game still used the old core mechanics of L&S-sneaking which didn't work well at all outdoors in the light. You say it yourself, you had to simply hope not to be spotted as the new "stealth metre" was basically useless and the level design didn't fit the needs for the new daylight play.

This game is something of a hybrid in that it couldn't decide what it wanted to be, a little of the old SC and a little of what seems to be the new SC - running around in daylight. Although I'm sceptical of SCC, I believe it'll be a better game than DA because it will likely represent a complete break with classic SC-gameplay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but all level still had the sneaking aspect. If its eather light or dark, as long as i can sneak around and grab some guys with a bit of story in the back of my mind, it's a Splinter Cell game to me.

If they would replace this sneaking with something else, I would immediatly stop buying the games.

Btw. Kinshasa has everything todo with observing the walking guards and timing your actions right. It's a great way of playing a game IMHO. You think a spy only walks around at night in real life (to be discreet :P)? If they putted in these kind of daylight missions from the beginning, we would have never complained about it.

[marinius]

Originally posted by LennardF1989:
True, but all level still had the sneaking aspect. If its eather light or dark, as long as i can sneak around and grab some guys with a bit of story in the back of my mind, it's a Splinter Cell game to me.

If they would replace this sneaking with something else, I would immediatly stop buying the games.

Btw. Kinshasa has everything todo with observing the walking guards and timing your actions right. It's a great way of playing a game IMHO. You think a spy only walks around at night in real life (to be discreet :P)? If they putted in these kind of daylight missions from the beginning, we would have never complained about it.

It is my firm belief that spies aren't allowed to be outdoors except during night. Their bosses lock them up in the daytime so as not to blow their cover.

I disliked the Kinshasa-level quite intensely. I didn't think the game mechanics suited that style of gameplay at all. I know you should observe guards etc. and I did get a perfect score (as in not seen by enemy), but still, I thought a bit too much was left to pure chance. Sometimes I was spotted when I was sure I wouldn't be and other times it was vice versa. I find such things annoying, but hey, that's just me.

[pietjevlip]

No, it's not... I find it annoying too...

[LennardF1989]

Yes, i agree, I sometimes find the guards can "look" too good... But hey, I got 100% (wihout knocking/killing out anyone! I also didn't use any tools - excpet smoke grenade, emp and sound emitter - or fired any bullet, only if i had to like, the docter in SHanghai) in every level up to Kinshasa now (I'm not past Kinshasa yet with this profile), so I won't complain...

BTW. It's really great to see how the NPC freak out with a SOudn EMitter :P Whixh is also a good tool for gettighn 100% stealth.

[locsphere12]

to be honest I hate change. Give me the same game with the same character with a different story and Im good. I wasn't going to buy conviction at all. but after seeing an actual response from the team developing the game I am happy to say ill be getting this game. As long as you guys listen to the fans and make responses like this I'll stay on board. Thanks so much for the responses can't wait to see the game.

[locsphere12]

P.S. I know this is imposssible but seeing SC go back to CT days would be nice after this game. with slight improvments on gadgets.

[zoozilla]

What does everyone want here?

*Everyone shouts 'Chaos Theory with better graphics!'*

You know, you people are a very lucky bunch. The Splinter Cell series is one of the best franchises ever made. Pretty much every game has recieved high praise from critics, and they have all sold well to boot. Do you understand how risky it is to change the direction of the franchise like this? Extremely risky - about as risky as trying to make a stealth game that would hold up against Metal Gear Solid.
The way I see it, you are very selfish to act this way. The devs are taking all of this time to make a game that is both new and would cater to the hardcore audience, and yet you complain and insult them just because they're not doing what YOU want.
Let's make this clear: Chaos Theory will NEVER happen again. It was a great game, it will always be a great game, and it will never be made again. I imagine that if Ubi released exactly what you wanted, CT with new levels and new graphics, thousands of people would complain "it's Chaos Theory 1.5" or "it's just an expansion." Look, if you want classic SC gameplay, you've got 4 classic SC games. But instead of going the easy way out, the team is actually going to create everything from scratch, for you.
A series doesn't progress by releasing the same thing every year. A series progresses by trying something new. It's like a band making a new album. Sure, the old music might have been great, but they want to do something new. It's the developer's decision, and their decision has been made. You can hope and pray for them to change their minds and release CT:2, but it'll never happen. So accept it or, frankly, you're never going to be satisfied.

Wow, I wrote that in a hurry and I don't even know if I really mean all that I wrote, but there it is.

[pietjevlip]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Wonderfull way with words...

[CoastalGirl]

Originally posted by zoozilla:
But instead of going the easy way out, the team is actually going to create everything from scratch, for you.

You actually believe that? WOW. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

[Knot3D]

Originally posted by zoozilla:
The way I see it, you are very selfish to act this way.

What a ******ed thing to say. A prime example of diluted consumerism.
You can claim anything...except THAT what you said there.

The only true & factual selfishness is corporate profit and greed. The Conviction game might prove a fair SPIN OFF game eventually, but it's reason-to-be is NOT based on noble motives.
If you think so, keep on telling that yourself like amen.

[eskimosound]

You guys just like slating things...
We all love Splinter Cell...for it not to progress would be a pointless exercise...can we all just be patient and see what cool game the team come up with?
They have completely redisigned the games engine from what I understand which is a phenomenal task..
To mention the pathetic game Metal Gear Solid in the same breath as Splinter Cell should get you ban..I have nevre played such a dull stealth game...it reminds me of Rambo on the Commadore 64...
Think like this...If Ubi hadn't made Splinter Cell 1,2,3,4 this would be the first one...and you would have no comparisons, it will still knocks the socks off any stealth game.
We all love the Shadow and Light and the sneaking but so what, we should also love the character, the progression, the music, the genre, the whole experience...
We've seen one scene and you lot are up in arms.
Well you want something better? Go and make your own...stop moaning because at the end of the day Ubi have made the best Stealth series thats on the market..
We love it, end of.

[kevin8998]

...Yhea

[locsphere12]

I'm a military man and after serving I now watch movies like rambo and laugh at how he never has to reload and survives impossible things. My friends talk about after being in the service it ruins action flicks knowing that a casing shouldn't be around a bullet after it's been fired, like in sniper. That being said, does working closley or on the Games that come out ruin the game play experience for any of the UBI Team?always wondered that. Remembering maybe how something was put together or incorperating a game engine on certain parts while playing the game. I hope this makes sense.

[gtrlk003]

It's been a while since we've go last info or movie about ConViction - Ubi please feed us...

[CellAgent51]

My impression of the franchise so far.

The original. Exactly the type of game I had been waiting for. Strategy stealth play mixed with brief stints of action. The cast of characters was awesome. Sam Fisher - immediately memorable. The playful banter between Grimsdotter and the team was great. There were some elements of the game that threw you out of the moment, but most were forgivable given that it was the first game.

Pandora Tomorrow. Felt a bit rushed, but built on the solid gameplay mechanics. Added sound threshhold detection. Very good addition. Multiplayer couldn't be beat.

Chaos Theory. Probably the strongest story of of all three games. Added some new gameplay elements that were basically cosmetic. Anybody that had played the previous games played the game the old way. Side note. This game added the abomination Starforce copy protection. It screwed up my computer so badly that I had to rebuild it. But before I did that, I disconnected it from the Internet and finished the single player game. After I rebuilt the computer I threw the game away so I am never tempted to install it.

Double Agent. Never finished it. The game changed from what I loved - stealth play in the dark. I understand conflict is the basis for human drama, but to tear Sam down to that level was gratuitous at best and a very arrogant design decision at worst. Because I was more annoyed with the game I noticed the things that ruined the immersion level. The green, yellow, red stealth detection lights drove me absolutely insane with hatred. What part of the game I played offered no advantage to taking the stealth route when it was available. What finally turned me off was the whole mini game within a game thing. Specifically the putting the pins in the mines. When I was playing that, I swore and swore and swore. If I would of met the person responsible for that idea, I would of given them a few very well chosen words of disdain.

Conviction. What little bit I have read doesn't look good. But I also understand that the hardcore fanbase that takes the time to post (including me) are very concerned where the game is being taken. The original post of the game developer seems sincere and he (like us) wants to bring back the original excitement that the original SC had. I feel that is nigh impossible given expectations to date. My computer won't play the latest high powered games so it is very unlikely I will be buying the game until I get a new gaming rig - well into next year. I'll buy the game and give it a fair shake, but if I don't play this one all the way through I will give up on the SC franchise altogether and look elsewhere to get my stealth gameplay fix.

[Derek_Jeter2007]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gifNicely said.DA was totally rushed IMO with all the freakin JBA levels and **** [xbox360]CT didnt leave me with a good impression for 2 reasons,1.I played it with way to high of expectations,2.I originally played it on the PS2.When I played on Xbox it pretty much gave me Orgasms.PT was way to strict i.e. "Fisher if you breath this mission is over" but holy **** was it intense!The original SC was my fav. game of all time and really got me into videogaming.SCC looks cool but I hate the fact that Sam can do things that would make the Incredible Hulk blush.Otherwise I like the new direction.

[davidov]

I liked DA, the Wii/Xbox as well as well as the 360, and I think Ubisoft Shanghai has proven himself worthy of making SC games again, after the good, but not that great SC:PT, but I'll be honest with you guys, I player DA 360 version way before I played the wii/xbox version, and I think that one was the better one.

It strongly reminded me of CT, and even the first SC game (the first game I ever played since SuperMario on the NES) when I was 11.

And I am thrilled that you folks at Montreal are working on ConViction, but I can't stress enough you guys have to come up with a good story, because I'm afraid you'll let Sam simply walk away after what happend in DA, and just move on to the next story. With all that happend in DA (Sarah dead, Lambert dead -or non?-, Mr. Fisher on the run) it's to late to go back to the good ol' days.

Anyway, SC has always been my game for over a quater of my life, and I'm looking foreward to play ConViction in, what? March '08?

[davidov]

Oh, and I laughed my... what? Arse off, when I saw Sam just pick up this guard and threw him into a bunch of contained that flew in all directions, as if they were made out of cardboard... and some other tiny bugs, but I'm sure you guys figure it out over there in Montreal... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[davidov]

Originally posted by CellAgent51:
My impression of the franchise so far.

The original. Exactly the type of game I had been waiting for. Strategy stealth play mixed with brief stints of action. The cast of characters was awesome. Sam Fisher - immediately memorable. The playful banter between Grimsdotter and the team was great. There were some elements of the game that threw you out of the moment, but most were forgivable given that it was the first game.

Pandora Tomorrow. Felt a bit rushed, but built on the solid gameplay mechanics. Added sound threshhold detection. Very good addition. Multiplayer couldn't be beat.

Chaos Theory. Probably the strongest story of of all three games. Added some new gameplay elements that were basically cosmetic. Anybody that had played the previous games played the game the old way. Side note. This game added the abomination Starforce copy protection. It screwed up my computer so badly that I had to rebuild it. But before I did that, I disconnected it from the Internet and finished the single player game. After I rebuilt the computer I threw the game away so I am never tempted to install it.

Double Agent. Never finished it. The game changed from what I loved - stealth play in the dark. I understand conflict is the basis for human drama, but to tear Sam down to that level was gratuitous at best and a very arrogant design decision at worst. Because I was more annoyed with the game I noticed the things that ruined the immersion level. The green, yellow, red stealth detection lights drove me absolutely insane with hatred. What part of the game I played offered no advantage to taking the stealth route when it was available. What finally turned me off was the whole mini game within a game thing. Specifically the putting the pins in the mines. When I was playing that, I swore and swore and swore. If I would of met the person responsible for that idea, I would of given them a few very well chosen words of disdain.

Conviction. What little bit I have read doesn't look good. But I also understand that the hardcore fanbase that takes the time to post (including me) are very concerned where the game is being taken. The original post of the game developer seems sincere and he (like us) wants to bring back the original excitement that the original SC had. I feel that is nigh impossible given expectations to date. My computer won't play the latest high powered games so it is very unlikely I will be buying the game until I get a new gaming rig - well into next year. I'll buy the game and give it a fair shake, but if I don't play this one all the way through I will give up on the SC franchise altogether and look elsewhere to get my stealth gameplay fix.

Yesterday, in the bus, I noticed that I once again, was listening to SCDA in-game music, while reading SC: Operation Barracuda, while thinking about SC: ConViction, now if you were a true SC fanboy, you would worship the guys at Ubisoft as if they were Gods, and what ever they come up with is sacred. And that's what it is to me. Shure, there will be some change. Tough, you just suck it up and smile. If you can't handle the change, then it's your problem, not theirs. For years you guys have been crying all over the web that Sam's character was to shallow, now you'll have two (perhaps a 3rd, after ConViction?) games that really explore Sams past, present, future and character, and now ''The game has changed to much''

[CellAgent51]

It's an arguable point, but Splinter Cell redefined stealth gameplay and as such has generated a huge following of loyal gamers. I don't envy Ubisoft and the decisions they have to make in coming out with a new Splinter Cell game. They have a hot property on their hands and they want to keep a good thing going. They want to strengthen the franchise by getting new gamers and they want to retain the existing gamers. Getting new gamers is a function of appealing to the entertainment dollar of the consumer - mainly through innovative gameplay and advertising. Keeping existing gamers is a function of keeping the game fresh but different enough to appeal to their entertainment dollar.

If a person is familiar with Venn diagrams, the areas of overlap betweeen those 2 domains (innovative gameplay) is where the smart money is invested. This is precisely what Ubisoft is doing. Ubisoft's track record in this domain is very good. One of the best in the business even. Will lightning strike in the same spot again? The bet by Ubisoft management is that it will. I wish them all the luck they can get - I really do.

The old Splinter Cell gameplay style that I want and love does not mean that I want the game to stagnate. I just means that I want to play more of the game that I love. I like exposition and development of characters. I like it when things are changed up a little. But Splinter Cell is the first game that I have encountered that has really hit the sweet spot in me. I love everything about it. If I could, I would play the same light and shadow stealth play almost forever. That is why I am writing to this message board. To let Ubisoft know that I am very fond of the L&S gameplay style and that they are guaranteed to get my entertainment dollars if they keep that formula. That's all.

-CA51

[Chinese_Bookey]

I think it's quite ignorant of Ubisoft to think that L&S has somehow run its course; they've barely scratched the surface! :/

[Release_15]

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

I applaud this post.

I think it's quite ignorant of Ubisoft to think that L&S has somehow run its course; they've barely scratched the surface! :/
How so? If they make that concept any more realistic, the guards would simply notice us in the shadows, and we'd have nothing to hide behind... Except cover. And that's been done. I honestly think people are trying too hard to hold onto their old, familiar SC. It's not because CT was such an amazing game, that the series won't suffer if they start making endless sequels, adding a gadget or a new move with a each subsequent one. It's gonna get redundant, and the quality will suffer.

I'm gonna look like a total suck-up for saying this, but I've always supported the idea of Conviction, and though most of the animations seem a bit clunky and 'off' to me (of course, it's been a while since that trailer was released, so who knows what it looks like now), I can't wait to get my hands on it. I loved both versions of DA, and thought the 360 version was a nice experiment that faltered a little in the story and AI department. Nevertheless, I've enjoyed playing each SC sequel, and have always been immersed in Sam's plight. There's only one way to describe people who want the same game over and over again: purists. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But it could very well mean that they're not in synch with a big aspect of modern gaming, at least when it comes to SC: evolution. Light/Dark is possibly the simplest stealth concept ever to be realized. It started with the masterful 'Thief' series, and it's had a good run, especially in the more recent SC series. But it's no longer a challenge from a design standpoint, nor does it stand out among newer, more innovative games. Regardless of what purists may say, more complex AI alone will not shake up or evolve Splinter Cell in a significant way. The series could've benefitted from it a while ago, but it won't make a difference in yet another 'typical' sequel. Change the situation. Change the story. Change the gameplay. Change everyting. It's scary, but it just might work, considering how long they've spent on the concept and the integral features of this new approach.

Therefore I can't wait to see social stealth in action. I believe both MF and JR when they say neither game (AC nor SC:C) ripped off the social stealth concept, and both games use it to facilitate their own unique premise. I enjoy seeing Sam in a more Jack Bauer/Jason Bourne situation, a place where he can finally adapt to a situation on the fly, rather than have unlimited time to get past the next lit room. SC:C will give us that experience. He's alone, he's dangerous, he's a wanted fugitive. And he'll finally be able to show off what 20+ years of combat/stealth experience can do to heighten a man's senses and hone his skills. Without the fancy gadgets or familiar goggles. It's a whole new world, and it smells fresh to me... This could be such a tense, exciting thriller. Richard Kimble meets Jack Ryan. But so many people are stuck on their 'familiar SC', due to the slightly disappointing narrative of DA. I'm not gonna tell anyone to get over it. I'm just wondering why it's so impossible to imagine that Montreal knows what they're doing, even it's not what you would expect. Like they said, they brought us the original SC. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt, at least? Did they disappoint us with the original SC, or CT? For the record, I have nothing against Shanghai. I loved PT, and thought DA for the 360 was a success, especially the tense HQ missions. The only way to create a different, more immersive narrative is to affect the character and the gameplay. The only way to keep a franchise alive is to keep it fresh. The only way to keep a franchise fresh is take a big risk every once in a while. This isn't EA, it's UbiSoft. Most of their franchises have always turned out great. I have confidence SC will remain an amazing series.

Anyway, this overlong post is basically my way of saying: rock on, Ubi! Don't let naysayers deter you from your goal. Maybe they'll come around once they play the game.

[pietjevlip]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gifHoly text-wall moly!!!http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

at least you placed enters once in a while, and the stuff you say makes sence, in a way...though I do understand those naysayers since CoastalGirl epplained it in a briliant way...

[Chinese_Bookey]

Originally posted by Release_15:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I think it's quite ignorant of Ubisoft to think that L&S has somehow run its course; they've barely scratched the surface! :/
How so? If they make that concept any more realistic, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Screw realism. Keep the shadows, innovate all else. No revolution, just continuity. But nay, naaaaaaaay.

[Crimsonwolfumi]

I just felt like throwing this out there...
I know the PS2 versons of the games couldn't really compete with the others graphics wise but I am still shocked and angered that Conviction will not be made for PS3. All the previous games have been on the PS platform, why not this one? I mean if i had the money I'd buy a 360 just to play this game but I don't and it still urks me. I just felt like letting that out thank you ^^

[soron]

Originally posted by Rhoulette:
<span class="ev_code_purple">Orph3O is an important figure on the development team in Montreal, so I would kindly ask that you all take a moment to appreciate the fact that we have a development team that is attentive to our community. As you all know, not all of the industry's dev teams are proactively community-oriented, and I firmly believe that both the community and the devs benefit from having a healthy relationship.

They understand that you all are concerned about the changes being made in Splinter Cell ConViction. They wanted to express the philosophy behind their design decisions. Just as there are dev teams in the world who don't care about community, there are dev teams out there who are happy regurgitating the same game over and over again only to add a couple features to each 'new' game the produce.

Our development team in Montreal, arguably the world's best (although I wouldn't recommend trying to argue that point with me; I'm rather stubborn about it), could not be happy simply regurgitating the same game that you all have bought and played multiple times already. They wanted to do something creative and different while embracing the same inherent goals of the original Splinter Cell.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

The launch of this game is still far away. There will be plenty of time for you guys to make a decision before it's on store shelves, so instead of jumping to conclusions, be patient and keep an open mind. If by the time it comes out we haven't convinced you that this game will be worth playing, then so be it, but I urge you to HAVE SOME FAITH in the team that caused you to hang out on these forums in the first place. </span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look bro, as a serious gamer for 20 years and a avid fan of Splinter Cell I understand where your coming from. However, to take out light/shadow game play is the fatal flaw of this series. Fans hated it in DA and will hate it in Conviction. I thought you would have noticed by the reaction from DA that we hate it. I don't have a problem with you adding new game play but please keep the basics of the game true to the series, that is why we play Splinter Cell and not Halo or AC(not that we don't play those too). Splinter Cell fans want light/shadow game play. Give the people what they want. If you want crowd stealth fine, feel free to add it but please keep what your fans want as well and we will love you for it. Why do you "need to move away from light/shadow?" that makes no since to me. Any ways I loved every SC game up to DA(not horrible but not that good either). Thank you for the great games you did make and I'm sorry for the negativity but I know what I like and you used to deliver it.

[soron]

Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
I think it's quite ignorant of Ubisoft to think that L&S has somehow run its course; they've barely scratched the surface! :/ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
I would like to see light/dark mixed with the social stealth concept. That would be so sweet. Like sneaking though an ally in the dark and emerging into a crowded street and blending in with the crowd then into a dark area again. That would be great!!! I hate the idea of taking out light/dark or restricting it to certain levels or areas but I would like to see it used in conjunction with other stealth tactics(ie: hiding around objects, smoke bombs, camo, disguises, distractions, and climbing over buildings). The gadgets and weapons are another aspect I will miss like hacking computer terminals and cameras. wow I really will miss that, maybe another series will take over what this series is abandoning.

[soron]

Originally posted by Release_15:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

I applaud this post.

I think it's quite ignorant of Ubisoft to think that L&S has somehow run its course; they've barely scratched the surface! :/
How so? If they make that concept any more realistic, the guards would simply notice us in the shadows, and we'd have nothing to hide behind... Except cover. And that's been done. I honestly think people are trying too hard to hold onto their old, familiar SC. It's not because CT was such an amazing game, that the series won't suffer if they start making endless sequels, adding a gadget or a new move with a each subsequent one. It's gonna get redundant, and the quality will suffer.

I'm gonna look like a total suck-up for saying this, but I've always supported the idea of Conviction, and though most of the animations seem a bit clunky and 'off' to me (of course, it's been a while since that trailer was released, so who knows what it looks like now), I can't wait to get my hands on it. I loved both versions of DA, and thought the 360 version was a nice experiment that faltered a little in the story and AI department. Nevertheless, I've enjoyed playing each SC sequel, and have always been immersed in Sam's plight. There's only one way to describe people who want the same game over and over again: purists. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But it could very well mean that they're not in synch with a big aspect of modern gaming, at least when it comes to SC: evolution. Light/Dark is possibly the simplest stealth concept ever to be realized. It started with the masterful 'Thief' series, and it's had a good run, especially in the more recent SC series. But it's no longer a challenge from a design standpoint, nor does it stand out among newer, more innovative games. Regardless of what purists may say, more complex AI alone will not shake up or evolve Splinter Cell in a significant way. The series could've benefitted from it a while ago, but it won't make a difference in yet another 'typical' sequel. Change the situation. Change the story. Change the gameplay. Change everyting. It's scary, but it just might work, considering how long they've spent on the concept and the integral features of this new approach.

Therefore I can't wait to see social stealth in action. I believe both MF and JR when they say neither game (AC nor SC:C) ripped off the social stealth concept, and both games use it to facilitate their own unique premise. I enjoy seeing Sam in a more Jack Bauer/Jason Bourne situation, a place where he can finally adapt to a situation on the fly, rather than have unlimited time to get past the next lit room. SC:C will give us that experience. He's alone, he's dangerous, he's a wanted fugitive. And he'll finally be able to show off what 20+ years of combat/stealth experience can do to heighten a man's senses and hone his skills. Without the fancy gadgets or familiar goggles. It's a whole new world, and it smells fresh to me... This could be such a tense, exciting thriller. Richard Kimble meets Jack Ryan. But so many people are stuck on their 'familiar SC', due to the slightly disappointing narrative of DA. I'm not gonna tell anyone to get over it. I'm just wondering why it's so impossible to imagine that Montreal knows what they're doing, even it's not what you would expect. Like they said, they brought us the original SC. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt, at least? Did they disappoint us with the original SC, or CT? For the record, I have nothing against Shanghai. I loved PT, and thought DA for the 360 was a success, especially the tense HQ missions. The only way to create a different, more immersive narrative is to affect the character and the gameplay. The only way to keep a franchise alive is to keep it fresh. The only way to keep a franchise fresh is take a big risk every once in a while. This isn't EA, it's UbiSoft. Most of their franchises have always turned out great. I have confidence SC will remain an amazing series.

Anyway, this overlong post is basically my way of saying: rock on, Ubi! Don't let naysayers deter you from your goal. Maybe they'll come around once they play the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I like that they want to add more types of stealth but why would you ignore what works?

[soron]

Originally posted by Orph3O:
Hi Everyone,

Thomas here, from the ConViction Team in Montreal.


We just wanted to give you a little heads up.

When we started thinking about ConViction two years ago (just when we finished SCCT) it was obvious for us that we needed new challenges, and that we needed to shy away from the light and shadow gameplay.
Obviously our main concern was YOU, as we knew that for the hardcore Fan, SC was defined by a gameplay, not a universe, not a character or else. Touching the gameplay was touching your very own perception of SC.

This we acknowledged, but decided to move forward... because we believe that we have something exciting to propose you, a new gameplay, that we hope will excite you as much as the Light and Shadow that we created 7 years ago.
I believe that it is all about perception. To us, Splinter Cell was about Stealth, Light and Shadow is only a mechanic to create stealth gameplay. We are working hard to keep on going with Stealth, however, we decided to expand the mechanics and to provide you more options to be stealthy. Splinter Cell was also about innovation, and we want to stay true to SC... ConViction is gameplay innovation.

All I can say is that we are the original Splinter Team, we are working towards the same standards of gameplay originality and polish, and we hope that as we will provide more info, that you will understand better our objectives and realize that we are not trying to create a subpar splinter cell, but an exciting stealth game, with Sam Fisher, in the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell universe.
We didn't want to redo what we already did, we wanted to explore and take you with us in a new form of gameplay, a new way to play stealth. Change can be daunting to some, but we needed to move forward for our own sake, and hopefully have you onboard.
We needed to experience new things, we wanted to challenge ourselves and by doing so, are challenging you. We are not light and shadow, but we are Splinter Cell as much as we were 7 years ago, and I am convinced that once you'll have your hand on ConViction you will have the same pleasure of discovering a truly unique experience.

So for those who are supporting us in this delicate shift of direction, thanks for your trust in us, this is what makes us work even harder, and for those disappointed, we hope we will find a way to reach you and that you will let us prove to you that you can have an exciting Splinter Cell experience without Light and Shadow.

Cheers !

PS: as I am writing this post, a screen two rows in front of me is displaying only the Ambiant Occlusion effects (nothing else) of a map... who said we didn't have shadow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Thomas
Orph3O

Ordo Ab Chaos
I'm sorry but from the clips I have seen so far the game looks really repetitive. I hope the whole game is not relying on this crowd stealth and distraction and h2h combat. If so warn me now b4 I waste the money to rent it. I prob wont buy it at any rate because so far it does not even attract my interest. I don't think the crowd stealth will hold on its own, even AC had climbing heavily involved. this looks like a snoozer. I really hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

I would like to see light/dark mixed with the social stealth concept. That would be so sweet. Like sneaking though an ally in the dark and emerging into a crowded street and blending in with the crowd then into a dark area again. That would be great!!! I hate the idea of taking out light/dark or restricting it to certain levels or areas but I would like to see it used in conjunction with other stealth tactics(ie: hiding around objects, smoke bombs, camo, disguises, distractions, and climbing over buildings). The gadgets and weapons are another aspect I will miss like hacking computer terminals and cameras. wow I really will miss that, maybe another series will take over what this series is abandoning.

[soron]

Originally posted by LennardF1989:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marinius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LennardF1989:
You all forget, that even though Da had much light and less shadows (which was kinda cool), you still have the sneaking around! Which is the real apsect of Splinter Cell, even without a shadow, you are still able to sneak around, but while holding your heart hoping your not getting detected.

Take the Kinshasa mission for example, daylight, couple of shadows, a lot of small entrancesand hiding places. Even though it misses the shadows, ITS STILL A LOVELY AND WONDERFULL Splinter Cell level where you can have fun sneaking around.


Well, what you state so insistently is merely your opinion. To my mind, the biggest problem with DA was the daylight missions. Why? Because the game still used the old core mechanics of L&S-sneaking which didn't work well at all outdoors in the light. You say it yourself, you had to simply hope not to be spotted as the new "stealth metre" was basically useless and the level design didn't fit the needs for the new daylight play.

This game is something of a hybrid in that it couldn't decide what it wanted to be, a little of the old SC and a little of what seems to be the new SC - running around in daylight. Although I'm sceptical of SCC, I believe it'll be a better game than DA because it will likely represent a complete break with classic SC-gameplay. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but all level still had the sneaking aspect. If its eather light or dark, as long as i can sneak around and grab some guys with a bit of story in the back of my mind, it's a Splinter Cell game to me.

If they would replace this sneaking with something else, I would immediatly stop buying the games.

Btw. Kinshasa has everything todo with observing the walking guards and timing your actions right. It's a great way of playing a game IMHO. You think a spy only walks around at night in real life (to be discreet :P)? If they putted in these kind of daylight missions from the beginning, we would have never complained about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> ha ha ha ha.....you think anything about this game is what a real spy does? THIS IS FICTION!!! The fact is most fans played these games because of the light/dark stealth none of this is close to how it really works that is why it is fiction. If you ever bothered to read about real spys, they are almost always ppl from other gov. who are entrusted with classified info and sell it for $$$. I don't want realism in games; that is boring. That defeats the whole purpose of games. Real spying is lame. The idea of Splinter Cell would never work in real life. I am sick of ppl defending the taking away of light/dark stealth by saying its unrealistic. That is the whole point. Have you seen Rambo lately? How entertaining would it be if he started shooting his machine gun and got killed in the first scene by a well placed round? Or Back to the Future? He gets in the time machine and starts it and it goes nuclear... roll credits. You know in real life James Bond is taken out and shot. Every time you see a bad guy miss when his target is out in the open you know that is total ****. There is a reason game are unrealistic...its because that is entertaining.

[soron]

Originally posted by LennardF1989:
Yes, i agree, I sometimes find the guards can "look" too good... But hey, I got 100% (wihout knocking/killing out anyone! I also didn't use any tools - excpet smoke grenade, emp and sound emitter - or fired any bullet, only if i had to like, the docter in SHanghai) in every level up to Kinshasa now (I'm not past Kinshasa yet with this profile), so I won't complain...

BTW. It's really great to see how the NPC freak out with a SOudn EMitter :P Whixh is also a good tool for gettighn 100% stealth. I like to kill every one even the civilians if I can do it without ending the lev. but thats just me... some times I like to mess with them b4 I kill them because it is more fun that way. Like the one Martigraw lev. in Hitman Blood Money. Lol so much fun. I used to play perfect dark on 64 and just kill kill kill. I miss the laptop gunhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[soron]

Originally posted by locsphere12:
I'm a military man and after serving I now watch movies like rambo and laugh at how he never has to reload and survives impossible things. My friends talk about after being in the service it ruins action flicks knowing that a casing shouldn't be around a bullet after it's been fired, like in sniper. That being said, does working closley or on the Games that come out ruin the game play experience for any of the UBI Team?always wondered that. Remembering maybe how something was put together or incorperating a game engine on certain parts while playing the game. I hope this makes sense. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Yeah it sucks watching ppl stand in the open and shoot at each other in movies. Its like who ever shells out the most rounds wins. And the way they fire the guns in most movies; they usually blind fire. And ppl only get hit when it fits with the story never when their right in the middle of doing something. I always wanted to make a movie like that for a joke; have a good guy get shot in the first half hour doing some thing stupid...roll credits. The End.

[soron]

Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
I think it's quite ignorant of Ubisoft to think that L&S has somehow run its course; they've barely scratched the surface! :/
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

[minjon]

I believe that the new game will make use of both L&S and social stealth. I think it has been mentioned in the developer's blog sometime this summer.

There seems to be a lot of resentment on these forums about changing the core mechanics of the game but I have to ask a question: for every person here who complains on the forums about the gameplay been different in SC5, how many others would just go 'meh, more of the same, this is getting old' if Ubisoft somehow decided to stick to the same L&S formula? It's not because a few people on the forums are VERY vocal against the evolution of the series that every fan is as apprehensive. I'm certain that the silent majority is very excited about the new direction.

[Chambly.Noire]

The light & shadow mechanic made for some great games, that is for certain. It allows you to get almost right on top of your prey, which ratchets up the thrill factor. Really, there's not much like it.

That being said, if the new style of gameplay that's being cooked up in Montreal right now can match or exceed that familiar high level of tension (and fun!) from the previous games without relying on L&S, then that sounds cool too.

[soron]

Originally posted by minjon:
I believe that the new game will make use of both L&S and social stealth. I think it has been mentioned in the developer's blog sometime this summer.

There seems to be a lot of resentment on these forums about changing the core mechanics of the game but I have to ask a question: for every person here who complains on the forums about the gameplay been different in SC5, how many others would just go 'meh, more of the same, this is getting old' if Ubisoft somehow decided to stick to the same L&S formula? It's not because a few people on the forums are VERY vocal against the evolution of the series that every fan is as apprehensive. I'm certain that the silent majority is very excited about the new direction.
I think a lot of ppl still want to see L/S but they prob just gave it up and don't bother to post here, after all the only reason to post about it is maybe it will change. If you read my thread about here is what I would like to see maybe you could add a few suggestions of your own and not be so critical about L/S being in Conviction. I don't want them to get rid of crowd stealth but you like that there is no L/S? Why would you want there to be no L/S in conviction? It can be used in conjunction with the crowd mechanic making this game stand out from games like AC and stay true to the SC series.

[indylink90]

no
body
said
that
the light and shadow won't come
back.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[soron]

Originally posted by indylink90:
no
body
said
that
the light and shadow won't come
back.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Well this game may kill SC if it does horrible and then there will be no SC, L/S or no L/S.

[Dvlos56]

If all you want is to hide in dark areas, replay SC and SCCT, I thought Splinter Cell fans were fans of the not only the gameplay but where the story was taking them.

If its the later it is a mistake on the part of the poster to automatically assume the new SCC's gameplay will be a failure, or a success when no one's played it yet. Also "all the clips shown" have been very limited, showing brielf some scenes in a park and some hand to hand brawling and escaping. Other than labeling it as "different" I don't see how the new gameplay is already "broken".

I also don't recall the dev's saying there would be NO L&S anywhere in the game.

[rasheed2006]

Splinter Cell was the REVOLUTIONIZOR of Stealth games.. They took it to another level.. The baiscally made what play with sounds, lights, and shadows ARE.. To take that out, is a BIG mistake..

I have never seen a game get this much heat before it's release.. You would think this would get UBI SOFTS attention, and get them to understand that WE are the "DEMAND" and they are the "SUPPLY" They are acting like they know whats good for us.. What we'll want in a game.. NO, WE TELL YOU..

The expanses of the lights and shadows, were going in a great direction with SC 1,2,3.. They were experimenting, and going FURTHER in that direction.. with DA they took a 90 degree turn away from what SC is known and loved for.. Now it looks like it will be a full 180..

If they do not fix this, sales will not be good.. And then I will have to say R.I.P. Slinter Cell.

[AgentXVII]

Originally posted by rasheed2006:
Splinter Cell was the REVOLUTIONIZOR of Stealth games.. They took it to another level.. They basically made what play with sounds, lights, and shadows ARE.. To take that out, is a BIG mistake..

That isn't true. Splinter Cell took an idea that started with Thief: The Dark Project and applied it to a modern stealth game, rather than use the method used by Metal Gear and Tenchu (line of sight).

Hyperbole isn't a good way to support your argument.

[rasheed2006]

^^ SC is the REVOLUTIONIZOR of it^^ Not the inventor.. I understand the basic ideas were there.. But it was not seen to that effect untill SPLINTER CELL. I have played all the games you typed and SC does REALLY take it to another level.. You could not even compare. when it comes to those aspects

[Dvlos56]

I'd like to see the dev team that created one of my all time favorite franchises just get the chance to put together a complete game before people start bashing it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[MKCC14]

Originally posted by AgentXVII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rasheed2006:
Splinter Cell was the REVOLUTIONIZOR of Stealth games.. They took it to another level.. They basically made what play with sounds, lights, and shadows ARE.. To take that out, is a BIG mistake..

That isn't true. Splinter Cell took an idea that started with Thief: The Dark Project and applied it to a modern stealth game, rather than use the method used by Metal Gear and Tenchu (line of sight).

Hyperbole isn't a good way to support your argument. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think it is true that they did redefine stealth action, but it is sort of an opinion. It was on the front cover of the first game's boxart.

[VIP_EJC]

There's only so much that can be done with lighting and shadows. Some fans are ignorant to change but it's time for change. And that change is ConViction.

[soron]

Originally posted by VIP_EJC:
There's only so much that can be done with lighting and shadows. Some fans are ignorant to change but it's time for change. And that change is ConViction.
And some fans are just Ignorant or not really fans.

[lochang19]

Originally posted by VIP_EJC:
There's only so much that can be done with lighting and shadows. Some fans are ignorant to change but it's time for change. And that change is ConViction.

And some fans are belligerantly opposed to people with opposing viewpoints.

I still am waiting with the answer that if L&S gameplay is 'so boring and overdone' then why didn't anyone say that BEFORE UBI arbitrarily decided FOR us to get rid of it.

Funny how it's so OLDSKOOL now that it's gone, and the fanboys call those who harken back to those days IGNORANT.

But that's how these forums are run nowadays. Guess nobody should be surprised.

[Stealthguy1986]

Generally the light and shadow techniques are effective in jungle operations.Although I do agree that the technique is so popular mainly because of Splintercell,however in games like thief,Splintercell the way they were carried out is questionable.For eg. 'you are standing in the dark and the guard infront of u at a distance of 2ft doesn't even notice you'.Moreover after a while the method gets boring, atleast to me.So I think the change in Convictions is quiet a refreshing change from the traditional light and shadow method.

[scworld]

If it's boring to you, leave the SC-franchise alone and play UT3. Don't ruin it for the people who still like it.

[ljm2008]

I thought this was for adult gamers.
Please re-read the original post from Orph30 and check for tone. I'm not reading arrogance.

Could it be they may want to remain competitive in the market and make improvements? TG for free enterprise. It's their story. You want a different ending, write your own.

I can't wait to play. Thanks for many years of fun.

[Vth_F_Smith_]

Originally posted by ljm2008:
I thought this was for adult gamers.
Please re-read the original post from Orph30 and check for tone. I'm not reading arrogance. Exactly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[scworld]

Noticing but disregarding the people that pay your salaries = arrogance.

My customer: "hey, make me a guestbook please"
I give the script
My customer: "This isn't a guestbook!"
Me: "na, didnt want to make it. It's a photo upload system now."
My customer: "wtf? I didn't order this"

People expect a Legacy SC, so they might buy convicion and get a totally different experience. Which is stupid.

[Reubened]

You know, as I looked through this topic, I've noticed that the arrogance isn't on the side of the developers; it seems to me that some of the users are the ones showing their share of arrogance.

It appears to me as though the developers posted a rather well-worded letter to try to explain that they weren't diverging from the "stealth" aspect of the game. Then in return they get a bunch of people yelling at them from eliminating stealth from the game. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Also, I'd like to stress that YOU are not the developers; The developers are, and they have every right to take THEIR project in any direction that THEY choose. It's not like we put an order into Ubisoft for Splinter Cell. I don't see where the team's obligation to stick to the exact same formula comes from. It's not their responsibility to stick to the same old gameplay. It's their responsibility to put out games that they think people will enjoy, and sometimes that involves diverging from the beaten path. The logic of "it's not what I've liked so far, so I don't like it" doesn't make sense. If that thought process held true in other aspects of life, everyone would just eat one dish for their entire lives because it's what they've liked "so far", and everything that is different isn't what they've liked so far, and is therefore horrible.

The devs have given you at least three games (I've been seeing complaints about Double Agent as well) that you've loved, putting in years of work for the single purpose of your enjoyment. And now that they're trying to diverge just a little bit from the same repetitive formula of "wait in shadows for guard , knock out guard, repeat," a good number of people are instantly throwing fits!

I think there's a lot of closed-mindedness going around when people are throwing out phrases like "destroying a franchise" when the game is still pre-Alpha. They've already come through with four great games, in my opinion. So why not let go of the freakish doomsaying and give them a chance to do what they've always done in the past?

[CoastalGirl]

I'm going to let you in on a secret that will just about blow your mind (so prepare yourself; I cannot be held responsible for deaths resulting from fully blown minds):

Nobody, not even the magically mystic suits at Ubi, knows me better than I do.

See, told you it was mind-blowing.


We've been down this road before, Reubened. In fact, we live on it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Reubened]

Actually, I bet the marketing department goes through a lot of trouble to know you better than you do. But that's beside the point.

The point is that it's absurd to tell the developers how to do their jobs, and to tear apart a project that is still so early on in its creation process that it doesn't look anything like the finished product.

Because, even if the mystic suits don't know you better then you do, it's a sure thing that they know how to produce a good game better than we do.

[CoastalGirl]

Originally posted by Reubened:
Actually, I bet the marketing department goes through a lot of trouble to know you better than you do. But that's beside the point.
LoL Yeah, if "I" were a guy, aged 18-24, that might be true. Problem is, I'm not.
Ubi has Rockstar to thank for my money; if it weren't for Manhunt, I wouldn't be here.




The point is that it's absurd to tell the developers how to do their jobs, and to tear apart a project that is still so early on in its creation process that it doesn't look anything like the finished product.

Because, even if the mystic suits don't know you better then you do, it's a sure thing that they know how to produce a good game better than we do.
Again, we've been down this road many, many, many, many, many times. Read the rest of the forum.

[Reubened]

Originally posted by CoastalGirl:

LoL Yeah, if "I" were a guy, aged 18-24, that might be true. Problem is, I'm not.
Ubi has Rockstar to thank for my money; if it weren't for Manhunt, I wouldn't be here.

...I don't know whether you took that as a joke or not, so I'll just say "I was making a joke" anyway.

But I will say that the remark about guys ranged 18-24 was pretty funny in return.


Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
Again, we've been down this road many, many, many, many, many times. Read the rest of the forum.

Well, I think I can tell that this is going to go around in circles for a loooong time. So methinks there's no real point in going on any further, is there?

[CoastalGirl]

Originally posted by Reubened:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CoastalGirl:
Again, we've been down this road many, many, many, many, many times. Read the rest of the forum.
Well, I think I can tell that this is going to go around in circles for a loooong time. So methinks there's no real point in going on any further, is there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, that depends on you. I've been arguing the same point for ages, but I'm okay with that because I'm stubborn and obnoxious, and it works for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But seriously, read the forum. It may give you more insight on where some of us "anti" people are coming from.

For example - a post from me that some "pro" people seemed to understand. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/6301014795?r=4701074895#4701074895)

[Reubened]

Well, I have to admit that that post provides a new side to the argument, yeah. But the counterpoint hinges on whether you like Light & Shadow because it's Light & Shadow, or whether you like Light & Shadow because it's stealthy.

If the latter, then I don't think Conviction's new style is very much of a problem. Although Light & Shadow is one form of ninjinity (could have put ninja-ness, but that's just not as much fun to say), but blending into a crowd to evade enemies can be the same as blending in with the shadows. I could say more, but the gist of it is that if you like Light & Shadow for the stealth factor, there's definitely other forms of stealth (you know, just in case you hadn't heard that before http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ).

Now, on the other hand, if you like Light & Shadow because it's Light & Shadow, well...that's a pretty infallible opinion, and I can see where your coming from. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[CoastalGirl]

Well, I said on another thread that I'm agoraphobic; I love L&S, and I can handle LoS, but keep the people away from me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Jackie Fiest]

Yes, the last thing she wants is a crowd following her to Denny's. She will never get a table. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

[CoastalGirl]

Originally posted by TFS_Jackie:
Yes, the last thing she wants is a crowd following her to Denny's. She will never get a table. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif
Will Sam be in that crowd? Because then it might be okay...he and I could get take-out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

[Rack316]

I don't have a problem with the addition of "Open Stealth" or whatever they're calling it. I welcome it. My problem is that they could have made it an ADDITION instead of a REPLACEMENT. Would it be so hard to put BOTH types of gameplay into the game, being used on different missions?

I keep checking back here periodically to see if the Devs have come to their senses and have at least included a few L/S missions, but oh well.

I won't be buying this one, but hopefully they'll do the smart thing include BOTH styles of gameplay (maybe even using both styles on a single mission) in the next game.

[rgswoohoo]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif To the Devs: Hi guys, just giving you a vote of confidence. I am a Splinter Cell fan and will eventually buy the game just because is a part of the series. My only problem will be getting a new computer or an xbox to play it on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/images/blocks/block-cybermen.jpg

[Miketavion]

[quote]rgswoohoo
Posted Tue January 29 2008 08:31 Hide Post
To the Devs: Hi guys, just giving you a vote of confidence. I am a Splinter Cell fan and will eventually buy the game just because is a part of the series. My only problem will be getting a new computer or an xbox to play it on.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif We know that you guys will do a great job with this game! I've been there from the beginning and loved every minute of it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now all I have to is buy them all again because they all got stolen..booo...lol

[TreFacTor]

The problem that I have is not that they are moving away from the old format to a more open enviroment, but the game just doesn't scream Splinter Cell from the gameplay that's been made available. I mean The Assassin's Creed game seems to have more stealth detail and polish than conviction. i would expect at least something comprable with conviction and with more of a mean streak seeing as Sam is on the lamb. The game looks like Sam in San Andreas. Graphicly it really looks last gen instead of next gen, and I know the game isn't finished, but just some of the character interactions seem more robotic than robotron. Until I see something more polished and promising,my opinion won't change. Sad because I have been a splinter Cell fan even before the first game was released when they were showcasing what great lighting the game had... anyone remeber that, the hostpital room with the curtains swaying.. i'm not seeing the same inginuity with this game.

[drooid]

Wow there really are some know-it-all soap box drama queens here!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I would like to add some respect and support for the creators of Sc:c, I'm not a 'Gamer' by any stretch of the imagination but i am a complete SC nutjob!! I LOVE IT!

I myself like so many felt completely ripped off with Double Agent, It was so disheartening. To be clear i really liked some newer elements of the gameplay, and the story, but i spent more time in the menu's than the actual game trying to get it to work properly, and visually it looked really bad http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Now about SC:C... While most people seem upset that the whole black ops light/shadow thing is removed [for now at least], the reason i'm such a huge fan of SC is not only the stealth gameplay, but also simply the characters of SAM/Lambert is what keeps me going. And in any good story, character development is not an afterthought, but a neccesity!!!. So, I just wanna get amongst the world of sam fisher, in his unusual and dark life!

I appluad the experimentation, and it seems Ubi have learnt some hard lessons from DA and are making sure there will be no more buggy games [?!]

I personally would like to see one of two things after SC:C ;

1. Sam re-unites with third echelon and goes back to work in the traditional sense [there is still room for better storylines, innovative gameplay etc guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif at the very least one more time around would be great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ]

2. Sam trains the 'Next Gen' Covert Agent?? Lets face it, he's getting old! the scope for a character of his replacement is reasonably large, no? Sam could almost then assume a 'behind the scenes'; job, popping up from time to time in the game, that would be a blast! Would be like catching up with an old friend...

I will be buying SC;C because i think it will be a killer game, and anything Sam does, i wanna do too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

[Thumpy]

I support Ubisoft and I am desperately waiting for Conviction to be released. As I am a big fan of SC, it's nice to look at SC outside the shadows. I love the storyline that accompanied the previous SC games.
Am I dissapointed with the change, just slightly. It's hard to see such a good game go through such change.
About DA, I really enjoyed playing it, but when I got to the point where I have to choose between killing Lambert or saving him, it was clear that he wouldn't be back later.
As long as Conviction keeps the Third Echelon and the characters from previous games, I will definetly play it.

[Voodooguy]

Guys..... i dont get why they should rid out SHADOWS n LIGHT gameplay to bring us new Assasin Creed style "run away and melt with other citizens" //

Why not just combine both gameplay styles? Some mission should happen in night with old school gameplay, and some should happen in daylight.
There is almost year before game will be released so UBISoft montreal have time to change lot of things.

I got idea how to mix up both NEW and OLD gameplay styles in Conviction!!!!

Just listen up everybody!!! Especially devs from UBISOFT Montreal!!!

You should implement changing of daylight, game should have dinamicly changind time of the day and of course lighting,
(just like in GTA, or any other game where are DAY and NIGHT where 2 real minutes....
But judging on my SC series experience,
I think the best Value is 1 real hour = 1 in game Day = 24 in game hours)

it will be really innovative but with flavour of previous SC games, also it will bring us more VARIABLE gameplay with 2 different styles !!!!

1) when there is a day in a game, there are many peoples around and no shadows where Sam can hide, so we all should use NEW STYLE gameplay.

2) But when night time is coming in Conviction, then there are not many peoples on a street (at nights peoples usualy doing their things at work\home\clubs) so Sam cannot hide like he can at Day, but its NIGHT TIME and its TOO DARK so here we forced to to play with lovely OLD SCHOOL Splinter CELL STYLE Gameplay!!

Also while daylight slowly and dinamicly changing we should move faster until shadows disappear and Sam become visible, or until peoples get back to their homes...
So periodical in game will be hot situation ^_^ - when its early morning and late evening there are not enough peoples on street and not dark enough, it will be time when Sam almost cannot hide and he may be spoted very easy. (that mean Loading of previous save)
U know what its mean? It can be deadline time for each mission! Just imagine:
We have One day for a mission, and we have choice:
we can wait for a night and try to beat all goals with old STYLE gameplay, or we can Try to start at Sunny day with NEW STYLE gameplay... but even if we did any of this choices we possibly can do everything not so fast so night will change the day and we will Change gameplay style and combine both styles in one mission...

Also its good idea to make a lot of DARK INDOOR AREAS so even when its not night yet Sam should be using Old school style in dark areas!


I know that technically its hard and may take extra time to develop such style of gameplay i described above... but UBISOFT montreal is the best Dev company in a world, there are nothing impossible for montreal guys!
I have Faith in UBI montreal mad skills, i even planing to move to Canada after i finish University and really planing to become one of the UBISOFT Montreal developers (Game designer and Plot\Script writer)

Aint it would be great??? Im wondering why nobody in UBIsoft Montreal have same idea?

That would be best compromise between fans who love old Sam fisher and between your new vision of stealth technique!

P.S. - but there is Unfinished business for UBI, that all of fans want UBI to finish - PC VERSION OF SCDA, year have passed but not shanghai not Montreal didnt take care about PC UPDATES, critical bugs not fixed yet, and PC owners dont have DLC (downloadabel live content) with 2 new maps and female spies.

Also i still cant understand how come that Shanghai and Montreal developed 2 very different SCDA (not direct port, true different game with different levels, hud, gameplay and even different story)?

Why didnt u synchronised work and didnt created to exacly the same game with different GFX for old and new gen consoles?

And which version should be count as CONVICTION prequel? GC\PS2\XBOX one by Montreal or Shanghai`s PC\360\PS3?
In Shanghai`s version both Lambert and Enrica survived (and there is no clues about Williams work... i know that he is main bad guys just because i played ESSENTIALS) so its generaly changing the story...
by the way i have another idea:

Create game with few different beginnings:
One where Lambert survived, othere where survived Enrica, third where both survived, and lastone where nobody survived...

If Enrica survived thats a great opportunity for love story line, if lambert survived... 1st fisher didnt killed him and we will very happy to see lambert at every next part of game)
(by the way if lambert officialy dead... u can revive him and hide, as another cover Sam didnt knew about)

[Voodooguy]

still no reply?