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Spanishdan
03-29-2008, 10:19 AM
Google did it (http://www.google.com/intl/en/earthhour/)

Why not you?

Earth Hour Home Page (http://www.earthhour.org)

Spanishdan
03-29-2008, 10:19 AM
Google did it (http://www.google.com/intl/en/earthhour/)

Why not you?

Earth Hour Home Page (http://www.earthhour.org)

OtnemeM_IroM
03-29-2008, 03:54 PM
Cuz I'll be playing Xbox.

Jinx FD
03-29-2008, 04:57 PM
I will be participating. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do you think playing DS counts since its not technically plugged in?

OtnemeM_IroM
03-29-2008, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jinx FD:
I will be participating. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do you think playing DS counts since its not technically plugged in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, the power came from somewhere, didn't it? Remember, TANSTAAFL, a basic rule of economics...

There
Ain't
No
Such
Thing
As
A
Free
Lunch

This is why this is a ridiculous idea. It's not "conservation", just postponement. Here's a better idea: No Sex in Africa Day. Stop the spread of HIV! Don't have sex in Africa for a day!

/Eye-roll and shrug

Phineas1382
03-29-2008, 06:04 PM
It's gonna be awfully dark with all the lights and what not off, so for the safety of those around me, I'll be sure to turn on all the lights and set all my electronics to their highest settings.

I'm thinking of the children stubbing their toes. The children people, the children.

Ninja Kn1ght
03-29-2008, 06:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OtnemeM_IroM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jinx FD:
I will be participating. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do you think playing DS counts since its not technically plugged in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, the power came from somewhere, didn't it? Remember, TANSTAAFL, a basic rule of economics...

There
Ain't
No
Such
Thing
As
A
Free
Lunch

This is why this is a ridiculous idea. It's not "conservation", just postponement. Here's a better idea: No Sex in Africa Day. Stop the spread of HIV! Don't have sex in Africa for a day!

/Eye-roll and shrug </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The point isn't to save the world by turning everything off for an hour but to raise awareness of energy conservation and encourage people to be more efficient on a regular basis.

Jinx FD
03-29-2008, 06:55 PM
I'm really kind of interested in seeing where the participation rates are high enough that it reduces light pollution for the hour. it would be cool to see what the stars look like for just a little while. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Even though of course this event isn't enough to be a change all by itself I think it's good to raise awareness about conserving electricity. Helps the wallet, reduces the carbon footprint. Win-win!

G4H_KingNothing
03-29-2008, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OtnemeM_IroM:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jinx FD:
I will be participating. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do you think playing DS counts since its not technically plugged in? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, the power came from somewhere, didn't it? Remember, TANSTAAFL, a basic rule of economics...

There
Ain't
No
Such
Thing
As
A
Free
Lunch

This is why this is a ridiculous idea. It's not "conservation", just postponement. Here's a better idea: No Sex in Africa Day. Stop the spread of HIV! Don't have sex in Africa for a day!

/Eye-roll and shrug </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, pretty much true.

Spanishdan
03-29-2008, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ninja_Kn1ght:
The point isn't to save the world by turning everything off for an hour but to raise awareness of energy conservation and encourage people to be more efficient on a regular basis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-29-2008, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spanishdan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ninja_Kn1ght:
The point isn't to save the world by turning everything off for an hour but to raise awareness of energy conservation and encourage people to be more efficient on a regular basis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it's not. The point of it was to "raise awareness about the growing global warming problem". It has nothing to with energy conservation and more to do with pushing a fabricated unscientific idea.

Global warming is a global hoax. End of discussion.

P.S. I know that energy conservation is a good idea and it is a good thing to do however do not be confused with what the objective of this "Earth Hour" was for. It was all about Global Warming.

Spanishdan
03-29-2008, 08:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dropK1CK_ninJA:
P.S. I know that energy conservation is a good idea and it is a good thing to do however do not be confused with what the objective of this "Earth Hour" was for. It was all about Global Warming. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doom on you... doom on you... doom on you... lets play team fortress

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-29-2008, 08:49 PM
I would but I'm in Pittsburgh and all I got is wireless. I doubt it'll work well.

Jinx FD
03-29-2008, 08:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dropK1CK_ninJA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spanishdan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ninja_Kn1ght:
The point isn't to save the world by turning everything off for an hour but to raise awareness of energy conservation and encourage people to be more efficient on a regular basis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it's not. The point of it was to "raise awareness about the growing global warming problem". It has nothing to with energy conservation and more to do with pushing a fabricated unscientific idea.

Global warming is a global hoax. End of discussion.

P.S. I know that energy conservation is a good idea and it is a good thing to do however do not be confused with what the objective of this "Earth Hour" was for. It was all about Global Warming. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it IS about energy conservation as an effort to lessen the carbon footprint, since the going theory is that the carbon emissions are a big part of the problem.

And it's starting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-29-2008, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jinx FD:
Actually, it IS about energy conservation as an effort to lessen the carbon footprint, since the going theory is that the carbon emissions are a big part of the problem.

And it's starting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Carbon dioxide, as a heat insulator is a very understudied compound. There has been published research that is pointing at that CO2's heating capacity is logarithmic. In that, after a certain quantity is in play it no longer contributes anymore to the 'heating' of the planet.

So the carbon footprint argument that Al Gore has attempted to champion is irrelevant until we understand the science behind what we are trying to base policy and action off of.

Still think the carbon is an issue? Try the Sun.

Mars' Ice Caps Are Shrinking. (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html) No humans with SUV's over there pumping out those emissions.

Back to the point: Earth Hour is about climate change. Not energy conservation. I'd be more keen on the ideas and actions if it were about energy consumption.

Don't believe me?

Here is their website: http://www4.earthhourus.org/

Here is their opening paragraph (bold added for emphasis):

"Earth Hour 2008 was a remarkable global event, and in towns and cities across America people "turned out" to lend their voice to the worldwide call for action on climate change."

Jinx FD
03-29-2008, 11:36 PM
While it's true that theories are changing as to the effects of carbon dioxide on global warming (the temperature since 1998 has actually dropped, I believe, and it's leveled off since 2002), there's still no single theory that explains all activities. I believe another new idea is that the sun's overall activity is fluctuating, which accounts for both the changes in our atmosphere as well as that of other planets.

However, even if the event focuses perhaps erroneously on the reduction of carbon emissions as an attempt to reduce global warming, the activity itself remains beneficial. Just because it may not be the biggest factor is no excuse for continuing to be wasteful. Whether you agree with the activity's stated attempt it's still doing good things if it raises awareness and encourages a reduction in wasteful energy use.

DocHolidazed
03-30-2008, 04:27 AM
Meh. This is a good cause. Even if the details of what it stands for are not agreed upon. Saying it has NOTHING to do with energy conservation doesn't make much sense. These are all tied together. Saving the climate requires being efficient and active in doing things that will help minimize destroying our atmosphere. I got these tips from the website that was posted in a related link. These things are easy for everyone to do. At least most of them are. Mw personally. I won't drive a hybrid. Nasty little cars which will only really pay for themselves after around 250,000 miles anyway. Gah. I'm sticking with my muscle cars. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


DISCOVER &gt; Global Forces &gt; Climate Change &gt; What You Can Do &gt; 12 Things You Can Do

Climate Change &gt;
12 Things You Can Do


--Solar powered electricity-generating station.
photo: WWF-Canon /Adam Oswell
The United States is the world's single largest contributor to global warming, with average annual emissions of 19.6 tons per person, nearly five times the world average of 3.9 tons per person. We can all reduce the amount of CO2 that we generate.

==Cut your CO2 emissions by about 20,000 pounds (10 tons) and save money too with these easy actions.

--8 Actions for Conservation At Home
Choose clean energy
Where possible select a power plan that uses at least 50% clean energy. To see if it is available in your state, visit the Department of Energy. If not, send this card with your utility bill. 7,000 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Recycle
Recycling saves a lot of energy needed to make new products. Recycle 50% of your glass, aluminum, plastic, cardboard and newspapers.
2,400 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Adjust your thermostat
Turn it down 3 degrees in the winter and up 3 degrees in the summer.
1,050 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Buy a programmable thermostat
Automatically lower your monthly energy bill by giving your heat and air conditioning a break while you are asleep or out.
1,050 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Replace a worn-out refrigerator with an Energy Star model
The US would 30 need less power plants if all Americans used the most efficient refrigerators. Visit EPA's Energy Star Website to see a list of energy efficient appliances.
1,000 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Turn your computer off overnight and put it into a power save mode
A standard monitor left on overnight uses enough energy to print 5,300 copies.
950 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Wash clothes in cold or warm water
Skip the hot water on 2 loads per week. You'll save energy and should have less wrinkled cloths.
500 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Use compact fluorescent bulbs
It's a bright idea to replace 3 incandescent bulbs with fluorescent bulbs that last up to 10 times as long and use 1/4 of the energy.
300 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==4 Actions for Conservation On the Road
Drive a hybrid or fuel efficient car
Save the environment and money by driving a car that gets at least 32 MPG.
5,200 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Drive 15 miles less each week
Shrink your gas costs and your waistline by walking, biking and taking public transportation.
900 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Avoid idling
Give your engine and the climate a break by turning off your car when you aren't moving... except in traffic or at a stop light of course. Try to cut out 10 minutes of daily idling.
550 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

==Keep your tires filled
Your ride will be smoother and you'll save up to 5% on your fuel tab.
275 Pounds of CO2 Savings Per Year

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-30-2008, 08:36 AM
Conservationists as a whole bothers me since the, as a group, seem so hypocritical.

For instance, recently they have put forward the finalized plans of putting in a "Green" Coal Power Plant. Mind you, we *need* to start creating new power plants since the old ones are decaying and the demand for electricity is only going to rise. Anyways, the here is southwestern Pennsylvania. A Green Coal Power Plant is actually quite simple. It will take the CO2 it produces and pump it into either A. A porous geologic formation in the ground where it can be stored or B. into a natural gas or oil producing formation and help increasing natural gas or oil recovery. Pretty simple, right?

Well conservationists have gone all ape crazy over it. They're protesting because emissions from that power plant is going to affect the climate and conditions of Shenandoah National Park in Virginia, over 200 miles south of us. Forget that climate patterns move west to east, and generally south to north, in this area of the world.

Power companies have also tried to build hydrothermal power plants tucked away in the hills of Michigian where you never know they exist until you came right up on them. Again, conservations jump up and down saying it'll destory the forests and will be an eye sore.

Brimtown
03-30-2008, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dropK1CK_ninJA:
Conservationists as a whole bothers me since the, as a group, seem so hypocritical.

For instance, recently they have put forward the finalized plans of putting in a "Green" Coal Power Plant. Mind you, we *need* to start creating new power plants since the old ones are decaying and the demand for electricity is only going to rise. Anyways, the here is southwestern Pennsylvania. A Green Coal Power Plant is actually quite simple. It will take the CO2 it produces and pump it into either A. A porous geologic formation in the ground where it can be stored or B. into a natural gas or oil producing formation and help increasing natural gas or oil recovery. Pretty simple, right?

Well conservationists have gone all ape crazy over it. They're protesting because emissions from that power plant is going to affect the climate and conditions of Shenandoah National Park in Virginia, over 200 miles south of us. Forget that climate patterns move west to east, and generally south to north, in this area of the world.

Power companies have also tried to build hydrothermal power plants tucked away in the hills of Michigian where you never know they exist until you came right up on them. Again, conservations jump up and down saying it'll destory the forests and will be an eye sore. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't forget that conservationists love to tout the benefits of "green" energy sources like wind energy - until you actually propose putting wind farms where they live. For example, there are proposals to build a wind farm off the coast of Massachusetts - where it could take advantage of strong winds in the area. However, Sen. Ted Kennedy and others have been leading an effort to block said wind farm. A few of the reasons - it will be a blight on the landscape (even though the windmills would be a few miles offshore, barely if at all visible from shore), and that it might hurt birds flying through.

Typical NIMBY nonsense.

Boomhower0311
03-30-2008, 07:31 PM
So if we all turn out our lights for an hour will they shut the powerplants off for that hour? Cause if they're going to stay on and still be burning coal then what's the point of me sitting around in the dark twiddling my thumbs.

As for the recycling paper thing, why should you do that? The higher the demand for new paper then the more incentive the paper companies have to keep their land in forests.

Spanishdan
03-30-2008, 10:31 PM
less carbon emissions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-31-2008, 04:15 AM
So, I was looking up an article about this guy S. Fred Singer because apparently CNBC ran this horrible bit on him and stumbled across this website. (http://z4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/index.php?showtopic=2050)

Mind blowing.

Something I hadn't considered before was this: If carbon is such a horrible, heating, killing greenhouse gas then why is Mars's mean temperature around -47 degrees C? It's atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide.

Ninja Kn1ght
03-31-2008, 06:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dropK1CK_ninJA:
Something I hadn't considered before was this: If carbon is such a horrible, heating, killing greenhouse gas then why is Mars's mean temperature around -47 degrees C? It's atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, I dunno. Maybe it's further away from the Sun or something. And it's atmosphere is 100 times thinner than ours.

Ninja_Raiden
03-31-2008, 07:40 AM
Energy conservation is advertised (don't know if that's the best word to use but anyway) quite often over here on, erm, TV...

What happened the Kyoto Protocol?

I don't drive (because of an eye condition), use a tumble dryer or a dishwasher. Clothesline and by hand! No bloody way am I handwashing clothes though! I used to have to do that on occasion; hateful, hateful chore!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brimtown:
Typical NIMBY nonsense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is NIMBY?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jinx FD:
I'm really kind of interested in seeing where the participation rates are high enough that it reduces light pollution for the hour. it would be cool to see what the stars look like for just a little while. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Even though of course this event isn't enough to be a change all by itself I think it's good to raise awareness about conserving electricity. Helps the wallet, reduces the carbon footprint. Win-win! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you joking? You've never seen the stars?

PaperEleven
03-31-2008, 08:01 AM
NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard

Dangler_Chief
03-31-2008, 09:11 AM
*rant*

I hate the term Global warming, please for the love of God, please use the term "climate change". Global warming is a misleading term beacause the current climate change we are experiencing is the deviation of several environmental constants, from the human perspective. when it comes to weather remeber, Meteorology folks "the study of", not Meteofacty, the authority on.

i do believe that earth hour is a good way of spreading a awarness of the effect we have on the natural process of our planet, both independently and as a society, but every time i here some yuppie spew the phrase "global warming" (which is on the earth hour hompage) my soul vomits. Come on the earth goes through cycles and until we fully realize these process' we CAN NOT assume our role. Don't even get me started on ethanol.

Remember when farmers grew things other than corn? Has anyone else noticed increase prices of wheat, beans and CORN. Why have a crop rotation of corn wheat and beans when you can just have corn-beans-corn and double your money thanks to Mr alternative fuel company rep? I like to eat corn. Great I got me started.

I remember when every summer their were stands on some of the more rural roads up here, but the past couple years..less..and less. Now i have go to a farmers market once a month which has half as many participants becuase everyone is growing corn for alternative fuel research. EVERY gas pump in my town has 10% ethanol and i live in upstate NY; i don't even have a burger king in my town. WTF,even wheat has doubled in price! WHEAT!! I guess i'll finally try that atkins horsesh*t.

Oh wait, beef prices are increasing because feed prices are increasing becuase some farmer is decreasing grain and corn feed production and looking for a little extra bucks only grows corn for alternative f*cking fuel research so United Ethanol Conglomerate can produce enough "cheap clean fuel" so people with hybrid suvs can sleep without guilt; meanwhile i'm still hungry.

I care about the environment and what humankind can do to preserve cyclical homeostasis, but who actually knows what is going on? My stomach and wallet know facts.

They should rename it "pull your head out of your *** and look around hour"

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-31-2008, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dangler_Chief:
*rant*

I hate the term Global warming, please for the love of God, please use the term "climate change". Global warming is a misleading term beacause the current climate change we are experiencing is the deviation of several environmental constants, from the human perspective. when it comes to weather remeber, Meteorology folks "the study of", not Meteofacty, the authority on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

All subjects of science are studies of. Very little things are considered scientific fact. Gravity is still a theory and not a fact in the world of Science.

There is a great book you'd be interested in, Chief, since you're pointing out it's cyclic. Very well written. It can get technical at times.

The real question about climate change, or global warming, or global cooling, is will it Destroy All Life? No. Not at all. Not even close. Human beings will live on. We adapt well. We made it through an icehouse age (which is much harsher) and we can make it through a greenhouse age.

The book is: Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years. (http://www.amazon.com/Unstoppable-Global-Warming-Updated-Expanded/dp/0742551245/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206977075&sr=8-1)


Ninja, I'll get to your other point about thinner atmosphere and distance from the Sun. Just a thought but Jupiter and Saturn are warmer surface temperatures than the Earth. But they do have thicker atmospheres. However, Jupiter, as an entire planet, contains virtually no carbon (trace or bulk).

Dangler_Chief
03-31-2008, 10:10 AM
I'm almost positive i had to read excerpts from this in "ecology, systems and culture" class i took last year, not the expanded edition that just came out though.

I realize that scientific method doesn't involve facts but creates debate by creating theory, providing proof for said theory, and let the next PHD candidate in your field either expand upon or denounce your professional perspective in their Doctoral dissertation.

Theories invloving global warming are just so loaded and beg to be tested immediately, but are so vague they, since they include some accepted theories but expand in bull**** direction dependent on the motive of those writing it (or paying for it). It's sad that money is the most easily observable catlyst to scientific study, not curiosity.

An unwaivering problem with science are studies funded by certain companies, governments and/or research institutions, taht are looking results answers and the studies to prove it, rather than a wide varity of studies and results to prove or disprove a hypothesis.

My mentor's an elitest a-hole but he told me when i left school, "Science is what we make it, fact is IF they take it; a paradigm is when time breaks it". Which, in my un-professional opinion, is a pretty truthful and humble statement to make, coming from a d*ck.

Good to know other people from the Burgh understand and embrace the "scientific method" frame of mind. SOUTH SIDE!

dropK1CK_ninJA
03-31-2008, 10:31 AM
True enough.

However, to be funded to any Science you need a government or buisness grant. What bothers me is that because you are funded by an oil company, for instance, you automatically have an anti-climate change product. However, when someone gets a grant from Greenpeace or the Sierra Club, you don't have an agenda and an honest and true person?

Every scientific article published since we needed the funding has some money source.

Dangler_Chief
03-31-2008, 11:38 AM
Schword, touche, i'm not saying you can't have any funding, any field tech could tell you that much. I'm just saying large amounts of money can easily test the honesty and itegrity of any researcher, Myself included. A lack of integrity will be the downfall of scientific method and "progress" - watch idiocracy if you haven't yet, Mike Judge is on the mark.

final thoughts- in any study, look where the money is coming from and there will always beanother perspective begging to be debated. Its difficult to get a holistic perspective on an issue involving explicit/implicit functions of the entire earth, solar system, **** the galaxy for all we know; THEN try and figure out what sort of cultural implications the entire human population is responsible for. F*ck that back to video games. Unless you're gonna cut me a check.



*edit*
My senior thesis was done in conjuction with a museum close to Montreal. My entire study had to be changed before submission because the curator feared the board would have a problem with my "accurate" account, of why the founder of the museum started the collection.

XBLirael
04-01-2008, 08:53 AM
First, re: Dangler's anti-corn rant. Agriculture isn't changing because of alternative fuel research; farmers are producing vast amounts of corn because that's all that Americans eat. Corn syrup, corn-fed meat, corn meal. It's the single crop powering America's food chain. Watch King Corn (http://www.kingcorn.net/).

Okay. The earth's climate may be controlled by an all-powerful wizard. It may be static and unalterable. It may be subject to scientific laws that we won't understand for several millennia.

But how does this impact me? Even if our actions aren't impacting the world's climate, this doesn't give humanity license to be wasteful heathens.

Someone's hybrid car may not end all war or stop flooding in China, but it is a better product. You shouldn't recycle to save the world, you should recycle because it's logical and responsible behavior.

So, my suggestion (and you can certainly take it or leave it), is that everyone stop getting so angry about the fact or myth that is global warming and just be responsible, forward-thinking people.

Dangler_Chief
04-01-2008, 09:45 AM
Understood, King Corn, will do. "

Global warming" is a loaded phrase "Climate change" isn't

I agree with you on many points, but don't blame me if i get livid about what i can actually observe in my community. As i said before you can do anything with data
documentaries especially.

i don't draw my opinions soley from the media, or the scientific community, i don't want to be mistaken for regurgitating rhetoric or propaganda.

Ultimately what i was trying to say is, my community is could very well be a primary case study for a scientific discussion concerning the degradation of the "community farmers market".


*edit*just adding a couple links from all points of view all using similair source data.

Earth policy institute (http://www.earth-policy.org/Updates/2007/Update65.htm)

Food and Fuel America (http://www.foodandfuelamerica.com/2007/07/american-farm-bureau-food-versus-fuel.html)- when you read the pdf keep in mind Terry Franel is also thier number one advocate of aspartame's safety.

Agricultural issue center, University of California (http://aic.ucdavis.edu/publications/MarketPowerAndEthanolSubsidy.pdf)- keep in mind a marketing agency is on the header

institute for local self reliance (http://www.newrules.org/agri/ownershipbiofuels.pdf)- positive monetary effect of ethanol production for local farming industry

XBLirael
04-01-2008, 10:47 AM
It's true; data is easily manipulated. I cite King Corn merely because it's easy to digest (no pun intended). There's a lot of other evidence of the whole corn phenomenon.

That's not to say that your community farms aren't "selling out" in order to support alternative fuel research. But I think the food trend is having a larger impact. That's too bad it's happening in your area; it's never nice to have to hunt for fresh, varied produce!

Dangler_Chief
04-01-2008, 11:36 AM
agreed, i love corn. why couldn't they use brussels sprouts? then nobody would give a sh*t.

Ninja_Raiden
04-01-2008, 11:41 AM
My sister hates corn. True story