No dynamic campaign??? Is this true???

[metsflyer]

....

[FlatSpinMan]

Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.

[metsflyer]

Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.


That's pathetic, SIX YEARS and they can't even come up with a dynamic campaign??? that's flight sim 101 - seriously?

Very very disapointed,it's 2011 and we'll have vanilla missions - that's gonna do a ton for immersion.

WOW.

And they want £50 for a collectors ed?

They can kiss it.

[DD_crash]

Yes its the end of the word as we know it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Dont panic dynamic campaigns will be coming according to Luthier. Why not use the time to get to learn the new flight model?

[thefruitbat]

Originally posted by metsflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.


That's pathetic, SIX YEARS and they can't even come up with a dynamic campaign??? that's flight sim 101 - seriously?

Very very disapointed,it's 2011 and we'll have vanilla missions - that's gonna do a ton for immersion.

WOW.

And they want £50 for a collectors ed?

They can kiss it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I won't miss you.

[metsflyer]

Originally posted by thefruitbat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by metsflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.


That's pathetic, SIX YEARS and they can't even come up with a dynamic campaign??? that's flight sim 101 - seriously?

Very very disapointed,it's 2011 and we'll have vanilla missions - that's gonna do a ton for immersion.

WOW.

And they want £50 for a collectors ed?

They can kiss it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I won't miss you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That makes sense. I can't recall saying anything about not playing the game, or not buying it - perhaps you need to put on your reading spectacles old fruit.

[metsflyer]

Originally posted by DD_crash:
Yes its the end of the word as we know it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Dont panic dynamic campaigns will be coming according to Luthier. Why not use the time to get to learn the new flight model?


I know how to fly dude, I just think not having a dynamic campiagn out the box is pretty poor considering the development time.

[thefruitbat]

Originally posted by metsflyer:

They can kiss it.

oh really.

[M_Gunz]

They want $50 for the DVD through Amazon. IIRC it qualifies for free shipping.

Wait and see about dynamic campaign through 3rd party software. There is a good one for IL2 and -if- the game engine hasn't changed much then the DCG should get ported over. So far a lot of what's in CoD is described as IL2:1946 taken upwards and new features. The online Dogfight server options alone look good enough to run better online wars, lot of exciting possibilities.

One thing we don't have details on, a Steam account is required to play online or offline. Another wait and see maybe.

[PB0_shadow]

Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.

You get to fly the 109, 110 & Stuka in the German Campaign iirc

[skarden]

And how many flight sims have had a Dynamic campaign since falcon 4 again?

You clearly havn't enjoyed the plethora of amazing static campaigns made by some of the very talanted mission makers here(flat spin man at the top of this thread included).I'm not worried in the least about the lack of Dynamic campaign,you'll be able to fill your boots soon enough.

[kimosabi79]

W00t! I'm on my third round of your LWP: Defence of the Reich-campaign Flatspin. Just wish CoD:IL-2 can cook up formations like that sometime, with multi core support. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Yeah yeah, DirectX...

[VW-IceFire]

All this hoopla about dynamic campaign being a yes or no completely misses the point. A boring and limited dynamic campaign is never going to be as good as a well crafted static campaign. A sophisticated dynamic campaign, of which everyone holds Falcon 4 as the high example, should be what Cliffs of Dover and subsequent installments shoot for.

Ilya was pretty clear in one of his last interviews that they were aiming high for the dynamic campaign and that it wasn't ready yet.

So frankly if everyone wants a boring dynamic campaign just so you can check the box off (dynamic campaign = yes!!!) then fine. I'll hold out for something more interesting.

On a side note: Just in case anyone thinks that the game will get stale with just a couple of scripted campaigns... I hope you realize that some of the stuff that the third party campaign makers put out is truly superb. We've seen some fantastic efforts like Afrika! and Fortress Europa come out to name but a tiny percentage of works. I'm sure there will be a lot of material available in just a few months time to suit whatever tastes are out there.

[Widowmaker214]

Never did like static campaigns. thats the problem. Static.

A good dynamic campaign set up with Lowengrin's DCG... with supply, units changing positions, battling for a front line. Awesome. The DCG with IL2 was pretty blah but Lowengrins DCG was great.

Im hoping, that with the servers being of the moving type, we can do something similar with a well laid out mission setup.

I spoke with lowengrin about doing a DCG for Cliffs of Dover...
he said if he could port most of it over... if the info coming in/going out was similar to old IL2.. that he would consider it.

But if he had to start from scratch.. it wasn't going to happen.

[Ba5tard5word]

Player-made campaigns are definitely going to be better than any randomly-generated thing. It's just going to take a while for people to create them.

[carguy_]

I think you ppl might want to know that there was a big voting thread lasting about a year IIRC. Close to 50% votes were for static campaign. It is also a lot safer to make a good one in out-of-the-box version for the reviewers.

[horseback]

The original version of Il-2 Sturmovik came without a dynamic campaign, and the community rapidly created dozens of quite good supplements to the original German 109 and the Soviet ground attack and fighter campaigns.

I have no doubt that some enterprising souls will attempt to re-create the early careers of Tuck, Bader and the Polish squadrons on the RAF side, or Molders, Galland, and Wick on the German side, and do it quite well long before you finish your first canned campaign that came with the game.

cheers

horseback

[Chivas]

Cliff of Dover supports "Triggers" which should add alot of variety to any type of campaign, Static or Dynamic.

[mortoma]

The problem with static campaigns is once you've played them, you'll know what to expect the next time you play them. That third mission when you get jump by 109s at high altitude will no longer be a surprise, will it? Need I say more? That was bad enough but once the whole "steam needed to play" revelation hit, I was glad that I hadn't pre-ordered this sim. Oleg won't be getting my money this time!!

I know, I know, you won't miss me. But Oleg will miss my money. Too bad for him and 1C as I'm hardly the only one.

[VW-IceFire]

Originally posted by mortoma:
The problem with static campaigns is once you've played them, you'll know what to expect the next time you play them. That third mission when you get jump by 109s at high altitude will no longer be a surprise, will it? Need I say more? That was bad enough but once the whole "steam needed to play" revelation hit, I was glad that I hadn't pre-ordered this sim. Oleg won't be getting my money this time!!

I know, I know, you won't miss me. But Oleg will miss my money. Too bad for him and 1C as I'm hardly the only one.
Well you get to vote with your dollars and that's fine. If a out of the box DCG is the deal breaker for you... that's your prerogative. It's not a deal breaker for me and lots of people feel the way I do too.

I did want to say that with trigger based missions, however, static missions aren't going to be the same as the static IL-2 missions. It hopefully (if the triggers are good) means I can put in random variables. So those 109s that you bounced the first time are now being bounced by your team... or they are G.50s instead. I guess we'll see on that...

[Chivas]

I agree Ice..."Triggers" if variable could make a huge difference in the game play every time you play the same scripted mission.

[Tiger2709]

Originally posted by metsflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.


That's pathetic, SIX YEARS and they can't even come up with a dynamic campaign??? that's flight sim 101 - seriously?

Very very disapointed,it's 2011 and we'll have vanilla missions - that's gonna do a ton for immersion.

WOW.

And they want £50 for a collectors ed?

They can kiss it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which current flight sims have a decent dynamic campaign?

Of course the 6 years they spent, there was nothing else to do but make a dynamic campaign, fm's, dm's, graphics etc all just created themselves, not that it matters as you wont be purchasing.

[doogerie]

I don't mind that there is no dynamic campagnes we have two what I assume are massive static campagnes and then there are the campagn makers who will add a ton of stuff too the game + the dynamic Campagne that we have been promised is in the works + the goodies that Oleg will no doubt give us in patches and the online aspect. you don't have to buy it but next week (yes it's just a weekaway here in the uk for evryone that pre orderd)I will be thinking of you as i fire up the new spit or whatever for the first time.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Tiger2709:
Which current flight sims have a decent dynamic campaign?

Try Lowengrin's DCG which works for IL2:1946 (and earlier) and IIRC there's a CFS version.

Unless CoD varies greatly enough from 1946 to call for a rewrite, Lo will be porting DCG onto CoD. Until CoD has been out for a while there's no saying how 3rd party friendly it will be. I used to have confidence that it would be so only better than 1946 but recent "how you like me now?" surprises have eroded that in a major way.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally posted by doogerie:
+ the dynamic Campagne that we have been promised is in the works

Luthier said they have no plans to develop a dynamic campaign system in the forseeable future. Sorry.

[doogerie]

my mistake still we have all the other stuff

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Yes, unfortunately. I had been looking forward to it, as mentioned in early updates.
There will be two static campaigns - 1 -f or the RAF and 1 for the Luftwaffe. Both are for fighters.

You what????

All this time and no bloody dynamic campaign - just mission one, mission two etc. Stuff that.

What a disappointment. Not good enough, IC! Not good enough - especially after all this time! Scripted campaigns have zero replayability for me.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by mortoma:
The problem with static campaigns is once you've played them, you'll know what to expect the next time you play them. That third mission when you get jump by 109s at high altitude will no longer be a surprise, will it? Need I say more? That was bad enough but once the whole "steam needed to play" revelation hit, I was glad that I hadn't pre-ordered this sim. Oleg won't be getting my money this time!!

I know, I know, you won't miss me. But Oleg will miss my money. Too bad for him and 1C as I'm hardly the only one.

Precisely. Once you've played them, bang goes the surprise. I was expecting a better, updated version of Rowan's BoB games. What a mistake.

[M_Gunz]

Community will provide new surprises, be sure.

[danjama]

Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
The problem with static campaigns is once you've played them, you'll know what to expect the next time you play them. That third mission when you get jump by 109s at high altitude will no longer be a surprise, will it? Need I say more? That was bad enough but once the whole "steam needed to play" revelation hit, I was glad that I hadn't pre-ordered this sim. Oleg won't be getting my money this time!!

I know, I know, you won't miss me. But Oleg will miss my money. Too bad for him and 1C as I'm hardly the only one.

Precisely. Once you've played them, bang goes the surprise. I was expecting a better, updated version of Rowan's BoB games. What a mistake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realise there will be user-made campaigns available almost immediately - just give people enough time to learn the mission builder, and you will be able to stop crying.

Also, Rowans - while immersive and fun to interact with - will not compare to Olegs BOB.

Screw it - i don't even want to persuade you. We're probably better off with you and your like not involved.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by danjama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
The problem with static campaigns is once you've played them, you'll know what to expect the next time you play them. That third mission when you get jump by 109s at high altitude will no longer be a surprise, will it? Need I say more? That was bad enough but once the whole "steam needed to play" revelation hit, I was glad that I hadn't pre-ordered this sim. Oleg won't be getting my money this time!!

I know, I know, you won't miss me. But Oleg will miss my money. Too bad for him and 1C as I'm hardly the only one.

Precisely. Once you've played them, bang goes the surprise. I was expecting a better, updated version of Rowan's BoB games. What a mistake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realise there will be user-made campaigns available almost immediately - just give people enough time to learn the mission builder, and you will be able to stop crying.

Also, Rowans - while immersive and fun to interact with - will not compare to Olegs BOB.

Screw it - i don't even want to persuade you. We're probably better off with you and your like not involved. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'My like'. Charming. So, just because I want games to move into the future and not be stuck on the same mission one, mission two rubbish, I'm being called 'an undesirable type'? All I did was voice my opinion - which I have every right to, and you start insulting me?? Six years, or however long we had to wait - what the hell where they doing all that time if there's no dynamic campaign? How can you say that a scripted campaign is better than Rowan's Ops room system, where you had full control over the type, numbers, objectives and everything else??

I couldn't care less how many campaigns are made - it's not the same as a dynamic campaign.

Also, how you can claim that a game which isn't even bloody well out yet will be so much better than the best BoB game ever - that's just nonsensical.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by carguy_:
I think you ppl might want to know that there was a big voting thread lasting about a year IIRC. Close to 50% votes were for static campaign. It is also a lot safer to make a good one in out-of-the-box version for the reviewers.



And the other 50%? Or were there actually slightly more votes for a dynamic campaign?

So, what happens if you fail to get past Mission One? You have to replay it again, yes? So things that were bombed to hell miraculously repair themselves, and you go again. That's just one of the many examples of why static campaigns will never be as good as dynamic campaigns.

The last Falcon game was the best flight sim in recent years - that's what IC should've been aiming for. Why was there such a huge delay if there's no dynamic campaign?

And to that prat who insulted me just for voicing my opinion, how would you feel if a feature you expected to be in, after six sodding years of development wasn't included?

[M_Gunz]

Maybe you should get to know the IL2 series better first. And second to wait a bit and see how CoD really works.

OTOH maybe you enjoy playing all bent out of shape as a form of troll bait. In that case oh yes it is the absolute end, CoD is no good, what waste, run about, scream and shout, all fall down!

[Chivas]

There was a dynamic campaign planned, and some work was done on it, but it lost its priority status when the sim was fast tracked for release. They have built a "Trigger" option and if this option is used in the static campaign it could make every mission play differently each time you play it.

With the game engine complete, this could free up resources to build a future dynamic campaign in a patch or addon. I'm sure the community will also have the tools to build there own. The future is too bright to burn the sim because some features were delayed.

[doogerie]

also ther is a QMB and anyway people know hat happend in the BOB it's one of the best documented air wars in world war 2

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Maybe you should get to know the IL2 series better first. And second to wait a bit and see how CoD really works.

OTOH maybe you enjoy playing all bent out of shape as a form of troll bait. In that case oh yes it is the absolute end, CoD is no good, what waste, run about, scream and shout, all fall down!

I have played every single IL2 game that has ever been released, so I know all about the series.

And no matter how good the missions are, there is one area where Rowan's Battle of Britain games will thrash the pants of it - and that's strategy. Maybe you all like flying a series of disconnected missions, well I don't. I like a bit of strategy in my flight sims - you know, planning missions and the like?

Either way, funny that no one has answered my question: If, for example, the game shipped with a dynamic campaign only (like Falcon Allied Assault) and no static campaign, after waiting for it all this time, you'd be nice and happy, would you?

Yeah, right.

As for calling me a 'troll' (which is what I assume you mean by 'troll bait'), I only posted in that manner because I was insulted (being termed a certain unwanted 'type') just for expressing my disappointment at the game following the old fashioned static campaign route.

Then again, most of the IL2 dynamic campaigns have been pretty duff. I don't know - maybe it's beyond IC's abilities to make a decent dynamic campaign, so they bottled it; but just because they can't do it, doesn't mean it can't, or hasn't been done well (like Falcon Allied Assault, once again).

As I said before in reply to the post about the vote, what about the 50%+ who said they wanted a dynamic campaign? The guy said that 'close to 50% didn't want a dynamic campaign', so that actually means that the majority (by a slim margin, but still the majority) did want a dynamic campaign.

Finally, regarding 'getting to know how the game works first', I've bought flight sims with static campaigns before - and each and every time, I've been disappointed. There's simply no replayability value, and as I said before, no strategy. CoD's going to have to go some to take Rowan's Battle of Britain II's crown as the best Battle of Britain game ever.

Maybe I'll look at it when it's £10 or £15, but I'm not paying £30 for a flight sim that's been in development for six years, and all it's got to show is two static campaigns. Wowwweeeee.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by Chivas:
There was a dynamic campaign planned, and some work was done on it, but it lost its priority status when the sim was fast tracked for release. They have built a "Trigger" option and if this option is used in the static campaign it could make every mission play differently each time you play it.

With the game engine complete, this could free up resources to build a future dynamic campaign in a patch or addon. I'm sure the community will also have the tools to build there own. The future is too bright to burn the sim because some features were delayed.

'Luthier' or whoever it is has already said they're not planning a dynamic campaign in the near future.

Look, I'm not talking about something spewing out random missions, the way IL2's dynamic campaign did. I'm talking about an engine that has a clear strategy in mind - how to systematically pick your country's defences apart - and you have to work to counter that. When that's executed to the highest level of quality, no static scripted campaign can compare.

Sheesh, it's like 'dynamic campaign' is a swear word at this forum!! When it actually is a way to give a game hours of playing time when done right - admittedly, IL2's dynamic campaigns were crap, but as I said, that doesn't mean it's impossible to do justice to it.

Are you guys seriously saying you'd say no to the ability to organise your own raids (playing as the Germans)? Or to decide when and where to deploy your fighters (as the RAF), as well as jumping into the cockpit? Honestly?

[danjama]

Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Maybe you should get to know the IL2 series better first. And second to wait a bit and see how CoD really works.

OTOH maybe you enjoy playing all bent out of shape as a form of troll bait. In that case oh yes it is the absolute end, CoD is no good, what waste, run about, scream and shout, all fall down!

I've bought flight sims with static campaigns before - and each and every time, I've been disappointed. There's simply no replayability value, and as I said before, no strategy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No replayability in flight sims with static campaign modes? Oh. My. God. Better tell the people who are STILL playing IL2.



Maybe you all like flying a series of disconnected missions


Once again, maybe you should try some of FlatSpinMan's custom made campaigns, and tell us if it is in any way disconnected, or anything but fun.

I'm done with you.

[GatorSub1942]

Once again - no answers to my questions, only 'I'm done with you', like you're God, or something. Are you this superior and this inflexible in real life? Or is it just when you're hiding behind the internet?

What about strategy? Where's the strategy in static campaigns?


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams"

Coming from someone who wants flight sims to remain in the static state they were more than ten years ago, instead of using the amazing processing power we have now to create believable, dynamic wars? Ha.

[Treetop64]

I have to admit, it is disappointing to learn that CoD will not have a dynamic campaign. Unless one is developed and patched in later, or Lowengrin ports DCG over, then it's pretty much a show stopper for me - I'll pass. I'll just stay with IL-2. I don't care how pretty the planes are, how detailed the ground objects are, or how well paint chipping is modeled, I'm not going to pay $50 plus to fly in a series of canned missions.

In seven years of playing IL-2, I've played less than a handful of static campaigns, the most recent being Ice's Dragon Skies. 90% of the time I use DCG, the other 2.5% with Amagi's Disaster on the Frontiers for DGen. That's not to say that I think DCG is better than static campaigns or DGen, it's just what I prefer

I like DCG because you are really one part of the whole effort in the campaign, and every action on the map has an influence on how the entire campaign plays out. It's unpredictable, engaging, and definitely immersive. Sure, there's no color commentary or storyline but I frankly don't care much about that. I don't play IL-2 to read a story. I'm not exclusively interested in just shooting planes down or looking at pretty scenery. I fly mission after mission to do my part, and to see how the entire campaign develops. DCG is an essential, brilliant piece of work and it brings depth and flexibility to the mechanical aspects of campaigns in IL-2 that it so badly needed.

I've been hooked on dynamic campaigns since Rowan's Battle of Britain first came out for "IBM compatibles" way back in the mid-1990s, and was further hooked when Total Air War came out years later. Unless a static campaign is exceptionally - and I mean, exceptionally - well produced, I get bored with it very quickly and I don't bother.

Again, it's simply a preference. There's no right or wrong, and one can't be objectively better than the other. But it is surprising that the CoD engine will not include a dynamic campaign system and I think that is a big minus for the sim, and it's an especially big turn-off for offliners. Sure, throw in static campaigns, too, if you like, but I think that by now, in 2011, dynamic campaigns in a hard core combat flight sim should be assumed.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by Treetop64:
I have to admit, it is disappointing to learn that CoD will not have a dynamic campaign. Unless one is developed and patched in later, or Lowengrin ports DCG over, then it's pretty much a show stopper for me - I'll pass. I'll just stay with IL-2. I don't care how pretty the planes are, how detailed the ground objects are, or how well paint chipping is modeled, I'm not going to pay $50 plus to fly in a series of canned missions.

In seven years of playing IL-2, I've played less than a handful of static campaigns, the most recent being Ice's Dragon Skies. 90% of the time I use DCG, the other 2.5% with Amagi's Disaster on the Frontiers for DGen. That's not to say that I think DCG is better than static campaigns or DGen, it's just what I prefer

I like DCG because you are really one part of the whole effort in the campaign, and every action on the map has an influence on how the entire campaign plays out. It's unpredictable, engaging, and definitely immersive. Sure, there's no color commentary or storyline but I frankly don't care much about that. I don't play IL-2 to read a story. I'm not exclusively interested in just shooting planes down or looking at pretty scenery. I fly mission after mission to do my part, and to see how the entire campaign develops. DCG is an essential, brilliant piece of work and it brings depth and flexibility to the mechanical aspects of campaigns in IL-2 that it so badly needed.

I've been hooked on dynamic campaigns since Rowan's Battle of Britain first came out for "IBM compatibles" way back in the mid-1990s, and was further hooked when Total Air War came out years later. Unless a static campaign is exceptionally - and I mean, exceptionally - well produced, I get bored with it very quickly and I don't bother.

Again, it's simply a preference. There's no right or wrong, and one can't be objectively better than the other. But it is surprising that the CoD engine will not include a dynamic campaign system and I think that is a big minus for the sim, and it's an especially big turn-off for offliners. Sure, throw in static campaigns, too, if you like, but I think that by now, in 2011, dynamic campaigns in a hard core combat flight sim should be assumed.

Finally, someone that can post in a sensible way about the lack of dynamic campaigns. As he said, sure - throw in the static campaigns, but why not please both groups? More sales that way you know, IC. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I mean, can you imagine BoB's Ops room screen, with CoD's battle engine? But no - we're not going to get that, all we're going to get is Mission One, Mission Two, Mission three, etc.

With dynamic campaigns, ones that have been done well that is, you get the feeling of being a cog in a machine - that you're doing your part. You don't get that in static campaigns, no matter how good they are, and no matter how many of them there are!

@Treetop - I honestly think that a decent dynamic campaign is beyond the capabilities of IC's programmers, therefore they bottled it - after all the dynamic campaign in IL2 wasn't much to write home about, was it? Better keep quiet though, otherwise the Static Campaign Nazis will jump on you the way they did on me, just for voicing my opinion. You see, Dynamic Campaign are swear words here.

[Treetop64]

I'm not sure that programming a dynamic campaign is beyond their capabilities, they probably just budgeted their time, money, and energy for other priorities.

[GatorSub1942]

Judging by IL2's dynamic campaign, I'm not sure. Unlike BoB II's campaign, it seemed a bit random.

[M_Gunz]

Didn't try Lowengrin's DCG then.

[doogerie]

hears a plan Gator SHUT THE HELL UP you don't wan the game don't buy it end of will I miss you NO and to answer you dam question. IL2 is RHE BEST ww2 combat sim out there at the moment beter the BOB2 (also a fine game)the Il2 Flight model is better so is the combat you like BOB2 go play it I like IL2 and i will play the until COD comes out houwa bout you go back under your bridge and never bother us agane (brige because that where trolls come from)

[GatorSub1942]

Bloody hell, just because I post my opinion, I'm a troll? Oh and if you're going to insult people, learn to spell properly first, eh? It's 'bridge', not 'brige'.

And once again, not one answer about the fact that only 'close to 50%' voted for no dynamic campaign, meaning that the slight majority did want it? And not one answer about how you'd feel if there were no static campaigns and only dynamic campaigns. As I said, I bet you'd be praising IC to the hilt if they omitted static campaigns - yeah right.

Last time I looked, the Ubi Forums didn't work under the same system as Nazi Germany. Maybe it's changed since I was last here.

All I know is my first post back here did nothing but convey my disappointment at no dynamic campaigns and Danjarama, or whatever his name is, Mr God Almighty himself, labelled me as a 'type'! My first post back - I didn't insult anyone, I just conveyed my disappointment. Whatever. People like you who can't discuss the pros and cons sensibly aren't worth dealing with. I can.

Pros of static campaigns:

The opportunity to be involved in an engrossing storyline.

Cons of static campaigns:

No sense of being 'part of the big picture'.

Pros of Dynamic campaigns:

The impression of being involved in a larger war that's going on all around you, as opposed to just your missions.

Cons of Dynamic campaigns:

If not done well, they can get samey.

Not one of you has said anything good about dynamic campaign - to you, dynamic campaigns are from the devil himself, whereas static campaigns, they're the future, aren't they (?)

I dare any one of you to say that if you'd just made your first post back and was immediately insulted for no really good reason, you'd be nice and friendly about it all. Sure you would.

I've honestly never met a more bunch of stuck up, inflexible and downright precious people in my life before and that includes forums! Precious because if someone says ONE WORD against your static campaigns, woe betide them. What a lot of Nazis.

[kimosabi79]

IIRC Oleg(or was it Luthier) has stated before that a dynamic campaign will be included in a later update/patch.

Look, a flightsim at this level takes years to complete. Modelling one(1) aircraft takes months, and more months of research about it. 6 years is nothing when you have a small team like Maddox/Daidalos. Besides, the game won't be "finished" at release.

Look at 777 and Rise of Flight, that game is patched almost monthly and the devs work continously to improve the game. You can expect something similar with CoD:IL-2.

Yes, the flightsim community is a weird bunch but you rattle the chain on them as well. Most diehard IL-2 fans already know what I've said in this post and your thread about the lack of a dynamic campaign is not the first posted about it either. Be patient, enjoy the game when it comes out and stay positive. Feedback is best served when you actually have played the game.

2cents

[doogerie]

I am Dislexic <span class="ev_code_RED">EDIT</span>

[GatorSub1942]

In that case, I apologise for my remark, Doogerie. All I'd like in return is an apology for those who have called me a troll just for posting my rightful opinion. I said it before, I'll say it again: how would you feel if static campaigns were not included? Can't you people just answer the question and get down off the high horse?

It's like I've committed some serious crime by wishing that a 2011 game should have a dynamic campaign.

@kimosabi79: If Danjarama or whatever his name is had posted back in a reasonable manner like you, I guarantee, this would've got nowhere near the level it has now. But no, he straight away labelled me as a 'type' that isn't wanted here.

[blairgowrie]

Please calm down doogerie and Gatorsub1942.

[GatorSub1942]

I'm calm. I can see that my opinion means nothing here - only one person has posted with any level of reason.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by kimosabi79:
IIRC Oleg(or was it Luthier) has stated before that a dynamic campaign will be included in a later update/patch.

Look, a flightsim at this level takes years to complete. Modelling one(1) aircraft takes months, and more months of research about it. 6 years is nothing when you have a small team like Maddox/Daidalos. Besides, the game won't be "finished" at release.

Look at 777 and Rise of Flight, that game is patched almost monthly and the devs work continously to improve the game. You can expect something similar with CoD:IL-2.

Yes, the flightsim community is a weird bunch but you rattle the chain on them as well. Most diehard IL-2 fans already know what I've said in this post and your thread about the lack of a dynamic campaign is not the first posted about it either. Be patient, enjoy the game when it comes out and stay positive. Feedback is best served when you actually have played the game.

2cents

Not according to this:


Luthier said they have no plans to develop a dynamic campaign system in the forseeable future. Sorry.

Also, I'd like to point out that I didn't start the sodding thread, I merely replied to it!

[Sillius_Sodus]

I haven't tried DCG yet, and I've never played Rowan's Bob or the Falcon 4 series so I can't comment on their dynamic campaigns. I have played DiD'd Total Air War and EF2000, and their Wargen(r) system was pretty slick even though it took me a while to figure out how to play a campaign, or understand one... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I suppose a good manual or tutorial would fix that.

LucasArt's Their Finest Hour and Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe had a pretty good dynamic component as well, at least for their time.

I suppose you could say that these games are a form of 'art', subject to the tastes (slings and arrows? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif) of the players. I won't have a painting of dogs playing poker hanging anywhere in my home, but my friend does, and I still go over to his place for a beer, where the picture behind his bar.

It's just his thing...

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
I've honestly never met a more bunch of stuck up, inflexible and downright precious people in my life before and that includes forums! Precious because if someone says ONE WORD against your static campaigns, woe betide them. What a lot of Nazis.

Or maybe most of us are NOT worried about dynamic campaigns not being in this release, based on our experiences with IL2.

It's that simple, there's more to it than the -little box- you keep insisting is the case.

[Swallow601]

Gator, as someone who flies online regularly with a squadron, I'll just say (smugly!) that I have the best of both worlds.

Our mission designers (they're a team, talented and dedicated http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif ) produce "canned" missions week in, week out. They're intricate, creative, frequently stunning.

Having tried DGen, etc, (and also, actually, some of the static campaigns and missions that came with the game - and I mean every iteration of IL2!), they strike me as lonely and sterile. The dynamic addons for IL2 always seem to me to be pretty repetitive (but that's just my opinion, of course).

In all honesty, finding a group of like-minded people who are constantly pushing the bounds of what's possible in IL2 transforms the game, and I'm totally confident (especially with the extra FMB tools to be supplied) that CloD will be the same (and then some!).

Really, for me the availability of static or dynamic campaigns is completely moot.

(By the way, for what it's worth, I've been with "The Tangmere Pilots" www.tangmerepilots.co.uk (http://www.tangmerepilots.co.uk) for years now. I'm still rubbish as a pilot, but have a great time with a diverse gang of "chaps" at least three evenings a week. I still can't believe it's basically free!)

[kimosabi79]

Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kimosabi79:
IIRC Oleg(or was it Luthier) has stated before that a dynamic campaign will be included in a later update/patch.

Look, a flightsim at this level takes years to complete. Modelling one(1) aircraft takes months, and more months of research about it. 6 years is nothing when you have a small team like Maddox/Daidalos. Besides, the game won't be "finished" at release.

Look at 777 and Rise of Flight, that game is patched almost monthly and the devs work continously to improve the game. You can expect something similar with CoD:IL-2.

Yes, the flightsim community is a weird bunch but you rattle the chain on them as well. Most diehard IL-2 fans already know what I've said in this post and your thread about the lack of a dynamic campaign is not the first posted about it either. Be patient, enjoy the game when it comes out and stay positive. Feedback is best served when you actually have played the game.

2cents

Not according to this:


Luthier said they have no plans to develop a dynamic campaign system in the forseeable future. Sorry.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, I remembered wrong. PCG interview (http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/02/08/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover-interview-we-talk-to-oleg-maddox-and-ilya-shevchenko/) quote:

"PCG: Some simmers may be disappointed by the lack of a dynamic campaign. Is there any chance you’ll add one in a future expansion?

OLEG: Given the likely shelf-life of the sim, there’s sure to be dynamic campaigns created by third parties, as there was with the original Il-2. Dynamic campaigns simply can’t be historical and we don’t like rewriting history. Missions created lovingly by hand are always more interesting than those generated by a dynamic campaign engine."

Tough luck as far as the intial release goes but Oleg's argument is a good one IMO.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by kimosabi79:
OLEG: Given the likely shelf-life of the sim, there’s sure to be dynamic campaigns created by third parties, as there was with the original Il-2. Dynamic campaigns simply can’t be historical and we don’t like rewriting history. Missions created lovingly by hand are always more interesting than those generated by a dynamic campaign engine."

That does seem a solid indication that Oleg has not cut off the ability for community made DCG's.

Next question is how much alike to what we have already for interactive tools will be in the new series? Lowengrin will not do a complete rewrite but seems amenable to doing a port of his excellent DCG.

People with opinions about static vs dynamic campaigns should respect the opinion of the people who made the sim (we don’t like rewriting history) and be thankful that the tools to expand that sim are included -at all-.

[Extreme_One]

As far as scripted campaigns becoming repetitive there has always been a way to make a randomised campaign in IL2 but the feature was underused.

It works like this:

You create a load of missions, lets say 01.mis, 02.mis, 03,mis etc.

Then you create the file that tells the game what order to play these missions in.

01.mis
02.mis
03.mis etc etc

So obviously you would play these missions one after the other in a totally linear fashion.

This is what most mission builders do however a mission-maker could do this:

01.mis 02.mis 03.mis
04.mis 05. mis 06.mis
07.mis 08.mis 09.mis

now when you complete a mission you will get a random mission from the line below so you could fly 01.mis followed by 04.mis followed by 07.mis etc. etc.
But the next time you play the campaign you could get a different order of play 03.mis followed by 05.mis followed by 09.mis etc. etc.

I expect this feature to be available in CloD too.

I'm not saying this is dynamic but it does allow for re-playability.

Anyway I'm looking forward to seeing what we can do rather than focus on what we can't do when the game comes out.

[ElAurens]

Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
Are you guys seriously saying you'd say no to the ability to organise your own raids (playing as the Germans)? Or to decide when and where to deploy your fighters (as the RAF), as well as jumping into the cockpit? Honestly?

Honestly.

Personally I have flight sims on my computer to fly. Being the Air Vice Marshall has never once been something I've wanted to do.

Strategy games bore me to tears. If I want that kind of experience I'll play chess.

Not saying that wanting good campaigns, static or dynamic is bad, but over the 10 years I've been at IL2 I can count the number of campaigns that held my attention past the second mission on one hand, and I won't need to count my thumb either.

The problem with all of them can me summed up in two letters... AI. Flying against the AI is just so incredibly predictable, and boring. Either they snipe you from across the map with superhuman deflection ability, or they fly like a pack of numb-skulls.

Either way I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to get past them and into the "meat" of the campaign. It's a pity too, because there are some beautifully crafted campaigns out there, but they all fall prey to AI Syndrome, for me at least. I guess I just have flown against human opposition for so long that anything else is just not worth the time anymore.

Oddly, I can play Silent Hunter 4 for hours on end and never be bored by it, but really it's more like chess than virtual air combat.

Just my thoughts.

[danjama]

Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GatorSub1942:
Are you guys seriously saying you'd say no to the ability to organise your own raids (playing as the Germans)? Or to decide when and where to deploy your fighters (as the RAF), as well as jumping into the cockpit? Honestly?

Honestly.

Personally I have flight sims on my computer to fly. Being the Air Vice Marshall has never once been something I've wanted to do.

Strategy games bore me to tears. If I want that kind of experience I'll play chess.

Not saying that wanting good campaigns, static or dynamic is bad, but over the 10 years I've been at IL2 I can count the number of campaigns that held my attention past the second mission on one hand, and I won't need to count my thumb either.

The problem with all of them can me summed up in two letters... AI. Flying against the AI is just so incredibly predictable, and boring. Either they snipe you from across the map with superhuman deflection ability, or they fly like a pack of numb-skulls.

Either way I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to get past them and into the "meat" of the campaign. It's a pity too, because there are some beautifully crafted campaigns out there, but they all fall prey to AI Syndrome, for me at least. I guess I just have flown against human opposition for so long that anything else is just not worth the time anymore.

Oddly, I can play Silent Hunter 4 for hours on end and never be bored by it, but really it's more like chess than virtual air combat.

Just my thoughts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The funny thing is, he ISN'T EVEN DESCRIBING a dynamic campaign there. As you pointed out (pretty much), he's just described a strategy game.

[M_Gunz]

There are a few air war sims that pack a bunch of incidental material, call it background if you will, in between the flying parts of the missions besides the briefings. The Red Baron series for example. It is nice but to demand that of every game in the genre is a bit much.

The thing is that with a good deal of effort it is probably possible to add this to IL2:1946 and CoD to an extent beyond anything from before just because of what our PC's are capable of. I mean this really. At the end of one mission before the start of the next the screen can be overwritten as it can be overwritten to put devicelink gauges on now. That is the hard way, but possible. If played in a borderless window (doesn't look so good) then another window can be opened right over and that can contain a web browser which it is pretty easy to run content in, even multimedia. We have the tools but no one has made the leap as day-um it's a big one! Once it becomes possible though, the rush to fill the between mission shows with html content which should be easier than making skins (anybody got AVI/WMV/FLV clips? Guncam footage?... nahhhh!) would provide a ton of material. Why it isn't there now? No real big demand as there are no crowds clamoring for it, just a few individuals crying to be catered to while ignoring what is already available.

Besides, the Artificial Idiots do really stupid things at times depending on how the mission is crafted. It does take a good bit of skill to not put them into bad-case setups. The crafting includes checking and fixing for the worst of those and even then they are still only going to be so good.
Online without AI you have the community of players and there is plenty of interaction during and between missions without having to play a single bit of added material. Funny but with people the screwups unless malicious just add to the immersion.

[GatorSub1942]

Strategy games without action bore me to tears as well. However, I love strategy games that have an action component (one reason why I'm a real fan of Wings of Victory and the Total War series).

Regarding not describing a dynamic campaign, all the decent dynamic campaigns I've played have had a strategy layer, that you can make as deep as you like. That's why I mentioned strategy in my posts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As I said, I'm not talking about some random mission generator.

Edit: Over at the official forums, there were quite a few people disappointed that there's no dynamic campaign, so I'm by no means alone.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=18546

There are quite a few people there disappointed.

[csThor]

I can't understand the fascination with "strategy campaigns" like in Rowan's BoB or technocratic presentations like in Falcon 4. To me dynamic careers in the sense of having a pilot figure and guiding it through the conflict are a lot more immersive.

I found Falcon 4 as interesting as watching paint dry. Entering cockpits in flight? Cardinal sin. No squadron connection? Cardinal sin. Selecting my mission and task? Cardinal sin.
Worse was even Rowan's BoB. If I want to play a strategy game I start a strategy game. I wanted a flight sim from that one, not Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day with an added flight part.

It still amazes me that the best campaign experience I ever had was with the old Red Baron II (or was it 3D? can't remember http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif ). That campaign style, updated to 2011, would be a major winner ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

[Feathered_IV]

Rise of Flight posted a news update today with further details of their new campaign system that is in the works. They've put an enormous amount of effort into it so far and it seems to designed as the next gen equivalent to the old RB3D offering. Certainly worth keeping an eye on.

Personally I also prefer a good dynamic campaign over a static one. I understand the merits of hand made campaigns, but for me I tend not to enjoy them as much. There are certainly some great ones out there. However I found many more to be poorly written and more akin to a QMB dogfight, just with longer flight times. I've talked myself to exhaustion on the subject at the bannana zoo here (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=10993) and will spare you it here again though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

When one looks at Il-2's Dgen system, it is easy to say that static campaigns are better. I tend to agree, as Dgen really isn't what I'd consider an adequate campaign experience. That certainly doesn't mean that that is all a dynamic campaign can be. Far from it. I was fairly gutted to hear that CloD won't have a proper DC mode, but I'm hoping RoF will cover that one for me.

Maddox Games has zero experience making dynamic campaigns anyway. Dgen was outsourced, and DCG a third party effort, so it seemed unlikely that Olegs team would suddenly make themselves masters of the art. I just hope that their new FMB is more sophisticated than Il-2's.

[GatorSub1942]

Originally posted by csThor:
I can't understand the fascination with "strategy campaigns" like in Rowan's BoB or technocratic presentations like in Falcon 4. To me dynamic careers in the sense of having a pilot figure and guiding it through the conflict are a lot more immersive.

I found Falcon 4 as interesting as watching paint dry. Entering cockpits in flight? Cardinal sin. No squadron connection? Cardinal sin. Selecting my mission and task? Cardinal sin.
Worse was even Rowan's BoB. If I want to play a strategy game I start a strategy game. I wanted a flight sim from that one, not Gary Grigsby's Eagle Day with an added flight part.

It still amazes me that the best campaign experience I ever had was with the old Red Baron II (or was it 3D? can't remember http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif ). That campaign style, updated to 2011, would be a major winner ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Knights of the Sky was fantastic as well - I'd snap up a remake of that immediately. Since most people here don't seem fussed about the lack of dynamic campaigns, mind if I take this a tiny bit off topic?

@Feathered - Is Rise of Flight a singleplayer game, or does it just focus on multiplayer? It's download only as well, isn't it? Does it have the 'aces' feature that Knights of the Sky had (you could meet them in the sky, challenge them and be challenged by them)?


Maddox Games has zero experience making dynamic campaigns anyway. Dgen was outsourced, and DCG a third party effort, so it seemed unlikely that Olegs team would suddenly make themselves masters of the art. I just hope that their new FMB is more sophisticated than Il-2's.

Yep, that stood out a mile when you look at the dynamic campaigns in Forgotten Battles.

@csThor - Agreed - if you want to play strategy, you buy a strategy game - but what about if you want to play both? Strategy only bores me to tears. Wings of Victory does a great job in that respect. Granted, the game was a trainwreck on launch, but Shockwave have stuck with it for an amazingly long time and it's been improved beyond all recognition.

[Feathered_IV]

Both hard copies and DL options for Rise of Flight are available. I have the boxed version myself.

The title got off to a slow start a year and a half ago. It was more of a study sim of Spad XIII vs Fokker DVII. Publishers forced the devs to release early, and it copped a lot of flak for it. The scheme of selling additional cockpits as addons made many people complain too, but I must admit it works well.

Proper online support was given first, as online players tend to shout the loudest. Numbers are not that high though, as the game hasn't been successfully cracked (unlike the legions of freeloaders on hyperlobby). Still fun though. Even for an offliner like me.

The new career mode is due out in late April\May, and includes the aces thing plus arty spotting and photo recon capability. A free demo is available if the current game if you want to check it out.

[GatorSub1942]

Yes, there is a boxed edition. Strange, I could've sworn it was d/l only - must be getting mixed up with another game. Still £30 at play.com though - I'm sure I can find it cheaper than that. I'll give the demo a look anyway, thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[JG14_Jagr]

People were hoping for a truly Falcon 4.0 style Dynamic Campaign where individual events changes the flow of battle. This is what the developers talked about and what they advertised. Its a shame (And I'm sure its devastating to Oleg's team) that after so many thousands of man hours this game is being gutted and will never see the light of day the way it was intended. The "Filter" isn't the fix, the filter is a stop gap while the team rips features and effects out of the game forever.. we won't ever get to play IL2 COD the way the developers intended..and that is truly disappointing.

[JG14_Jagr]

I get the idea that many of you have no idea how a true Dynamic Campaign works.. some if not most of you may have never played Falcon 4.0 Let me give you the idea. You as an offline (or online Coop) set parameters for a campaign..basically it was a split of the forces, 50/50 40/60 60/40 etc.. Then the campaign began and began generating missions that went whether you chose to join them or not. Those missions would be to all sorts, CAS, SEAD, Strike etc. If you were tasked with hiting a bridge before the DPRK could cross it if you did it, they would divert the ground forces to a new crossing and bring up engineers to repair the bridge you hit..the time it would take would depend on your level of BDA. If you struck their air fields it would take pressure off your ground forces. If you downed lots of fighters you'd take pressure off your ground attack and bombers.. it was truly dynamic and had a great interface..you could leave it running and watch the progress of the war and jump in flying missions whenever you wanted.. It was alive and every action would effect every other action..