Interesting, ignorant, irrational interview

[sumoaltus]

http://www.edge-online.com/new...ell-was-too-hardcore (http://www.edge-online.com/news/ubisoft-felt-splinter-cell-was-too-hardcore)

As all of you know, I was a huge supporter of Conviction since day one, but the more I play it, the more frustrated I get with the mechanics and gameplay.

Even 2/3 of the co-op was made into a western style shoot-out, and it's kind of a shame. This is one of Belands interviews just arguing the fact that previous Splinter Cells were a bit too hardcore for the casual gamer.

It's more funny than anything else.

[eviljohnny666]

"Too hardcore" ahaha. Then they'd see snes games as ultra hardcore and nes ones as ultra ultra hardcore. You only need to think a bit and don't be too trigger friendly.

[sumoaltus]

Yeah, I don't know. Panthers don't get into gunfights.

[eviljohnny666]

Hey he said he get in in 2008 and they they worked two months for the fugitive conviction, didn't he wanted to say 2 years? Damn I wished so much to be able to play that version of conviction http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[TF141Rook]

Beland says you can shoot out every light in the game. Nonsense what about the lights with the white x marker,<span class="ev_code_WHITE">x </span>?

[Yabab_2]

Chemical lights you mean? Neither EMP's nor shooting will work. So why even bother?

[sumoaltus]

Yeah the lights that are protected can't be shot out.

I would have liked to see a bit more of a saturated storyline.

@eviljohnn666:

I'd love to try that version of the game. We can only hope for Splinter Cell 6.

[Andre202]

This is just crazy. I can understand to make a game more accessible. That doesn't mean the game should become the easiest of the world. You have difficulty settings, what is the problem to offer a difficulty that fits to Hardcore Gamers and the other that fits to Casual Gamers.

Ubisoft is ruining all their good series with their casual campaign. It's just sad to see this. I never thought I would think Beland should be replaced, he is doing his job but after reading this I would like to have some of the old Creative Directors back. If Ubi want to make Casual Games then do so but don't turn Hardcore Games into Casual Games. We are now in 2010 and much more people have computers and consoles. Hardcore Games doesn't mean that only Hardcore Gamers will buy this game there are also alot of Casual Gamers who buy Hardcore Games just to have Challenge.

I think it's really a very bad idea to bash the old titles so it looks like they are jealous about the success of the old SCs. At the end you will have fun with SCC but for how much time? This Splinter Cell isn't at all better then the "grandmother SCs" that had much more depth suspense situations and a story where people were amazed of and were hyped to play the next title. In this title the end, even people who supported the game had an empty head. Actually they should be hyped for the next SC but it looks like this isn't the case.

Keep your Franchises unique and don't make them a 3 JB's copy. It's a shame to see Sam this way. You have to please the consumers that were waiting for the game not Spielberg!

[xXassassinXx92]

Ghost Recon is next for this "noobifying". SC is not for the casual. I'm going to laugh if it sells less than CT, but I doubt it. The only reason that this will sell more is because it had 3 years to get pre-orders and I'm sure a bunch of people didn't know what was coming with SCC.

[stavros_27]

Hey he said he get in in 2008 and they they worked two months for the fugitive conviction, didn't he wanted to say 2 years? Damn I wished so much to be able to play that version of conviction Frown

He was brought onto the Conviction team in 2008. The game was being developed for about 2 years before that...he was brought to fix the old Conviction, but after 2 months working on making it better, they decided to scrap it and go into a different direction.

If you read the article with no bias, a lot of what he says makes plenty of sense. It was a game for hardcore players. How else did sales dip from over 5 million from the first game, to about 1 million in the 4th game of the series? A lot of people found it very frustrating. I can't even go back to the first 2 games anymore because of the crazy trial and error.

If you want to read an interesting interview, check out this out with Mathiue Ferland about the original Conviction in 2007. He was part of the original SC and CT teams at Montreal.

http://game-reviews.ca/news_1618.htm

"Our ambition is to propose a never seen before game play experience, supported by new technologies and new game philosophies. While we are very cautious about Splinter Cell universe and continuity in the brand, we wanted to change the core game play and be proactive to new opportunities in the industry. We also wanted to propose more fun, more quickly, and enlarge our fan-base by proposing an experience that is more accessible but not less exciting!"

If you read that without knowing who it was by, you'd think it was Max Beland or Alex Parizeau. Don't blame Max for Ubi Montreal screwing up the original Conviction so badly that they needed to replace their producers and directors and get a fun, playable version created.

[Andre202]

SCCT sold more then 5,5 million and the first one over 6,5 million. I am not sure if Splinter Cell Conviction will reach these high numbers.

[sumoaltus]

Ergh, that's what frustrates me the most, I wasn't really left with a sense of accomplishment after completing Conviction. I just don't see where the team was trying to go with the whole story.

I've honestly seen commercials with better storylines. The funny thing is, I was an avid supporter of this game since te beginning, it's a shame that I was proved otherwise.

[xXassassinXx92]

Originally posted by Andre202:
SCCT sold more then 5,5 million and the first one over 6,5 million. I am not sure if Splinter Cell Conviction will reach these high numbers. Let's hope not! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[LaurenIsSoMosh]

Okay, so he references Sam Fisher as a "feature," and he also references shooting out lights as a "core value."

ROFI http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[stavros_27]

SCCT sold more then 5,5 million and the first one over 6,5 million. I am not sure if Splinter Cell Conviction will reach these high numbers.

can you post the source for 5.5 million sales from Chaos Theory?

[sumoaltus]

I'm not really blaming Max for any of Conviction's faults, I'm blaming the whole team.

Max basically fed the developers ideas, but he didn't have the final say of what was to be included in the final product, he even said that himself.

[otter2007]

I figured this out since playing the game myself for about 2 missions. Anyone who thought this game was good compared to the other games really needs to be hit in the head.

This game has practically become a shooter with some shadows to hide in and some flashy hand to hand abilities. (Last Stand is a great example of this)

Still shocked that even trained mercs and third echelon people get "scared" when you pop out from around a corner and attack them.

This is a casual game for casual players they have abandoned the old splinter cell players entirely.

Even infiltration mode is a joke you can just grab one guy and then execute 4 more (up to 6-8 with a friend) and pretty much kill everyone in each zone. Not to mention the easy headshot/killing machine the mp5 (not the crappy one, the scoped/silenced one).

My 2 cents.

[Real720]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
I'm not really blaming Max for any of Conviction's faults, I'm blaming the whole team.

Max basically fed the developers ideas, but he didn't have the final say of what was to be included in the final product, he even said that himself.
It's still crazy to think that Max worked on realistic titles, such as Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield...

[Andre202]

Ironically SC got more and more accessible and got rid off the trial and error gameplay and with that the sales were going down. Splinter Cell has difficulty levels. When people play the game on Expert and then complain it's very frustrating then I don't know what to say.

OXM review stated it very good. Splinter Cell didn't need a relaunch. The gameplay was still new and not boring and there was alot of things that could be improved in SCCT although it is the best SC game. People will continue to compare new SC title to SCCT because it is simply the best. Ubisoft should keep Hardcore Games Hardcore Games and make new games for the "Casual" Group.

[otter2007]

Originally posted by Andre202:
Ironically SC got more and more accessible and got rid off the trial and error gameplay and with that the sales were going down. Splinter Cell has difficulty levels. When people play the game on Expert and then complain it's very frustrating then I don't know what to say.

OXM review stated it very good. Splinter Cell didn't need a relaunch. The gameplay was still new and not boring and there was alot of things that could be improved in SCCT although it is the best SC game. People will continue to compare new SC title to SCCT because it is simply the best. Ubisoft should keep Hardcore Games Hardcore Games and make new games for the "Casual" Group.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Well put.

[sumoaltus]

I'm just finally starting to see what the darksiders are talking about, and it puts a smile on my face. I was blind by Ubisoft's marketing, but it's fine, the game's still fun for the time being.

I would now love to see a fully upgraded version of Chaos Theory. I have a feeling that they'll deliver it this time around as well.

Personally, I'd love to see the development team's faces when they look at a majority of the posts on here.

[eviljohnny666]

Originally posted by stavros_27:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hey he said he get in in 2008 and they they worked two months for the fugitive conviction, didn't he wanted to say 2 years? Damn I wished so much to be able to play that version of conviction Frown

He was brought onto the Conviction team in 2008. The game was being developed for about 2 years before that...he was brought to fix the old Conviction, but after 2 months working on making it better, they decided to scrap it and go into a different direction.

If you read the article with no bias, a lot of what he says makes plenty of sense. It was a game for hardcore players. How else did sales dip from over 5 million from the first game, to about 1 million in the 4th game of the series? A lot of people found it very frustrating. I can't even go back to the first 2 games anymore because of the crazy trial and error.

If you want to read an interesting interview, check out this out with Mathiue Ferland about the original Conviction in 2007. He was part of the original SC and CT teams at Montreal.

http://game-reviews.ca/news_1618.htm

"Our ambition is to propose a never seen before game play experience, supported by new technologies and new game philosophies. While we are very cautious about Splinter Cell universe and continuity in the brand, we wanted to change the core game play and be proactive to new opportunities in the industry. We also wanted to propose more fun, more quickly, and enlarge our fan-base by proposing an experience that is more accessible but not less exciting!"

If you read that without knowing who it was by, you'd think it was Max Beland or Alex Parizeau. Don't blame Max for Ubi Montreal screwing up the original Conviction so badly that they needed to replace their producers and directors and get a fun, playable version created. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It still seemed like it was going to be a lot better. I already read that interview a long time ago and thought there were some great ideas. A fugitive, black market, hiding in the crowd, improvisation using your environment, etc... This new Conviction is extremely simplistic, it's all about a rinse and repeat gameplay the missions where you knew they took it off the early build feel extremely simple compared to what I have seen and read about it. It's a very dumbed down game. But I see a difference between both interviews, the second made me interested and maybe even pumped and the first made me irk at times.

[Real720]

Originally posted by stavros_27:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">SCCT sold more then 5,5 million and the first one over 6,5 million. I am not sure if Splinter Cell Conviction will reach these high numbers.

can you post the source for 5.5 million sales from Chaos Theory? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6123173.html

It doesn't mention the number 5.5 million, but it does mention the fact that it sold well over 2.5 million copies in just one month.

[Andre202]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
I'm not really blaming Max for any of Conviction's faults, I'm blaming the whole team.

Max basically fed the developers ideas, but he didn't have the final say of what was to be included in the final product, he even said that himself.
I always think this is team afford too. But there so much interviews where the Lead Directors say, this was Belands idea and this too and this here and that one. It all looked for me like he said what they should do and they have just done that. I don't want to blame anyone, it's there job but sometimes I think where is their logical explanation.

[Eric_Steinway]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
Personally, I'd love to see the development team's faces when they look at a majority of the posts on here.
That will be hard, their hands are in the way.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx109/The_Steinway/facepalm.jpg

[sumoaltus]

The "Oh poop what did I just do" look...priceless.

[Andre202]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
I'm just finally starting to see what the darksiders are talking about, and it puts a smile on my face. I was blind by Ubisoft's marketing, but it's fine, the game's still fun for the time being.

I would now love to see a fully upgraded version of Chaos Theory. I have a feeling that they'll deliver it this time around as well.

Personally, I'd love to see the development team's faces when they look at a majority of the posts on here.
Nice to see that people begin to understand the so called darksiders. The problem is, the realization was a bit late. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[sumoaltus]

Yeah, my seventy dollars is missing me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif *tear*

[SilencedScream0]

I'm not one to say "I told you so" (but I'll be damned if I don't imply it)...

The sole reasons I bought the game were just so I knew where the storyline was and so I'd have another co-op game.

Honestly, co-op is the only thing going for it.

[sumoaltus]

That's all we play dude, and hunter. 1v1 is just a button mashing contest.

[Andre202]

Looks like some Multiplay Modes are nearly dead. Or isn't this the case? But I won't be surprised if I see noone online in Conviction after 3 months.

[SilencedScream0]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
That's all we play dude, and hunter. 1v1 is just a button mashing contest.

It really is.
Solenoid and I played last night, with guards.
I thought there'd be more strategy involved, but it really is down to running and gunning (and button mashing, if you get near the other player), if you really want to win.

I'll enjoy Hunter, Infiltration, and Last Stand until no one's online anymore. Once you guys move on, I'll only ever touch the game when a friend comes over.

[JohnKillerII8]

Originally posted by Andre202:
This is just crazy. I can understand to make a game more accessible. That doesn't mean the game should become the easiest of the world. You have difficulty settings, what is the problem to offer a difficulty that fits to Hardcore Gamers and the other that fits to Casual Gamers. Play the game on Realistic. It will kick your a$$ if you don't use stealth!

[otter2007]

Ya it's no wonder they never showed any multiplayer in any of their trailers, because it sucks! Lol the guys above me is correct about face off. Last Stand pretty much turns into a spray fest. Infiltration and hunter mode are the only two things this game has going for it and the co-op mode.

Oh well I am trading this thing as soon as I can for whatever I can.

[eviljohnny666]

Originally posted by otter2007:
Ya it's no wonder they never showed any multiplayer in any of their trailers, because it sucks! Lol the guys above me is correct about face off. Last Stand pretty much turns into a spray fest. Infiltration and hunter mode are the only two things this game has going for it and the co-op mode.

Oh well I am trading this thing as soon as I can for whatever I can.

Same, it's basically the same ****ing game put in different contexts.

[otter2007]

Originally posted by JohnKillerII8:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andre202:
This is just crazy. I can understand to make a game more accessible. That doesn't mean the game should become the easiest of the world. You have difficulty settings, what is the problem to offer a difficulty that fits to Hardcore Gamers and the other that fits to Casual Gamers. Play the game on Realistic. It will kick your a$$ if you don't use stealth! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So wrong it's not even funny.

Here play this:
Hunter mode, realistic, five-seven, mp5sd3, remote mines and EMP grenades. Set your suit up for all +gadgets. Ya, you will win and it won't even be close especially if you just sit on a pipe or anywhere in the shadows at all and take everyone down not to mention marking and executing 4 people at once if your alone and more if you are with a friend.

Granted you can't just run and gun entirely but you can get pretty close and still be fine.

[Andre202]

Originally posted by JohnKillerII8:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andre202:
This is just crazy. I can understand to make a game more accessible. That doesn't mean the game should become the easiest of the world. You have difficulty settings, what is the problem to offer a difficulty that fits to Hardcore Gamers and the other that fits to Casual Gamers. Play the game on Realistic. It will kick your a$$ if you don't use stealth! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
But forces you to kill people and into firefights? People are stating here that some missions are impossible to ghost (a form of Stealth) and alot of situations where you cannot "use" Stealth.

There are alot of things where the devs said it wouldn't be that way but it was so. Now where are the people who said you don't need to use M&E to play the game and you will be able to play the game without this feature. The problem is the game begins with M&E and ends with M&E. Wow, I am forced to use it. Just as the Action is forced on you. They didn't want to force STEALTH in a STEALTH GAME but they force ACTION in a STEALTH GAME.

[iSplinter]

Originally posted by TF141Rook:
Beland says you can shoot out every light in the game. Nonsense what about the lights with the white x marker,<span class="ev_code_WHITE">x </span>?
It is because they have the cage around them. You need to blow them up with an environmental object like a Red Can.

[eviljohnny666]

Originally posted by JohnKillerII8:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andre202:
This is just crazy. I can understand to make a game more accessible. That doesn't mean the game should become the easiest of the world. You have difficulty settings, what is the problem to offer a difficulty that fits to Hardcore Gamers and the other that fits to Casual Gamers. Play the game on Realistic. It will kick your a$$ if you don't use stealth! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha. Sure, you'll probably want to be stealthy, but thing is, since it's easier to get caught and screw up, it's even easier for everything to become a ****ing shooter. Even on realistic, with an automatic rifle it's not that hard really!

[Isanator]

If the previous Splinter Cell where to hard, all that means is your pretty much bad at stealth games.

That is how most, (not all) stealth games are meant to be, there based off of that. Hitman was real stealthy in a way, you can't run and gun, as it scares the civilians, guards come, etc. Now that I say that, they should of made it more like Hitman (you arn't a hitman of course).

For example. In hitman, there are times where you can run and gun, and you can't. You need to get close to your target, you take out your enemys in the shadows, hide there bodys, sneak up. Once you are close enough, you whip out your guns, start putting bullet holes in brains, and get the hell out of there.

Thats what Conviction should of been, and the previous Splinter Cells. Pure stealth action, but when you are compromised, caught, etc. Its to to whip out the guns. Previous Splinter Cells lacked of that, because you where caught, you where dead most the time. And Conviction had to much of that.

Anyways, back to the point, if it was to hard, it means most stealth games are going to be to hard for you. People who think Chaos Theory is hard, is going to find Hitman hard, etc.

I find RTS games hard. I love them, but I am pretty bad at them. Company of Heros for example (if any of you have played) is a great RTS, I love playing it, but I am just not to good at it. And if your bad at 1 RTS game, your usually bad at the other RTS games.

[Mesotie]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
Personally, I'd love to see the development team's faces when they look at a majority of the posts on here.

I don't think the team even looks at these forms anymore. The only posts they read are the ones that praise and love the game. And based off most reviews, the game is great. Those are what the team looks at, the 8.8 and 9.0, not us complaining about the same stuff we were complaining about five years ago

[aguy16]

Originally posted by Andre202:
SCCT sold more then 5,5 million and the first one over 6,5 million. I am not sure if Splinter Cell Conviction will reach these high numbers.

Uhh.. Since when?

[Andre202]

Originally posted by Isanator:
If the previous Splinter Cell where to hard, all that means is your pretty much bad at stealth games.

That is how most, (not all) stealth games are meant to be, there based off of that. Hitman was real stealthy in a way, you can't run and gun, as it scares the civilians, guards come, etc. Now that I say that, they should of made it more like Hitman (you arn't a hitman of course).

For example. In hitman, there are times where you can run and gun, and you can't. You need to get close to your target, you take out your enemys in the shadows, hide there bodys, sneak up. Once you are close enough, you whip out your guns, start putting bullet holes in brains, and get the hell out of there.

Thats what Conviction should of been, and the previous Splinter Cells. Pure stealth action, but when you are compromised, caught, etc. Its to to whip out the guns. Previous Splinter Cells lacked of that, because you where caught, you where dead most the time. And Conviction had to much of that.

Anyways, back to the point, if it was to hard, it means most stealth games are going to be to hard for you. People who think Chaos Theory is hard, is going to find Hitman hard, etc.

I find RTS games hard. I love them, but I am pretty bad at them. Company of Heros for example (if any of you have played) is a great RTS, I love playing it, but I am just not to good at it. And if your bad at 1 RTS game, your usually bad at the other RTS games.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Eric_Steinway]

Originally posted by streetballdude:
Uhh.. Since when?
I saw the sales figures a couple months ago.

I'll dig through Ubisofts reports later and see if I can find something on CT.

[sumoaltus]

Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sumoaltus:
That's all we play dude, and hunter. 1v1 is just a button mashing contest.

It really is.
Solenoid and I played last night, with guards.
I thought there'd be more strategy involved, but it really is down to running and gunning (and button mashing, if you get near the other player), if you really want to win.

I'll enjoy Hunter, Infiltration, and Last Stand until no one's online anymore. Once you guys move on, I'll only ever touch the game when a friend comes over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, same here, lesson learned I guess right?

[Real720]

"James Bond and Jason Bourne run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly and silently with a sound suppressor, so it’s a lot more dynamic. So we needed to do something with that." -Beland

He should watch this bit (1:36-1:44):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...-0_o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSBRvZz-0_o&feature=related)

"I'm not a tuxedo kind of guy."
"But, but you are some kind of spy."
"Yeah, I'm the REAL kind, NOT the tuxedo kind."

[Maj_Ortiz]

Originally posted by Andre202:
Ironically SC got more and more accessible and got rid off the trial and error gameplay and with that the sales were going down. Splinter Cell has difficulty levels. When people play the game on Expert and then complain it's very frustrating then I don't know what to say.

OXM review stated it very good. Splinter Cell didn't need a relaunch. The gameplay was still new and not boring and there was alot of things that could be improved in SCCT although it is the best SC game. People will continue to compare new SC title to SCCT because it is simply the best. Ubisoft should keep Hardcore Games Hardcore Games and make new games for the "Casual" Group.

couldnt have said it any better myself http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

[sumoaltus]

The problem is with attention span. A lot of gamers now-a-days don't want to earn the right to finish a game, they just want to finish it.


Originally posted by Real720:
"James Bond and Jason Bourne run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly and silently with a sound suppressor, so it’s a lot more dynamic. So we needed to do something with that." -Beland

He should watch/listen this bit (1:36-1:44):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...-0_o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSBRvZz-0_o&feature=related)

"I'm not a tuxedo kind of guy."
"But, but you are some kind of spy."
"Yeah, I'm the REAL kind, NOT the tuxedo kind of guy."

"I'm the one that gets blood on it..."

Haha classic Fisher, too bad he's on vacation for conviction. They just brought in a body double instead.

[Mesotie]

Originally posted by Real720:
"James Bond and Jason Bourne run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly and silently with a sound suppressor, so it’s a lot more dynamic. So we needed to do something with that." -Beland

He should watch/listen this bit (1:36-1:44):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...-0_o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSBRvZz-0_o&feature=related)

"I'm not a tuxedo kind of guy."
"But, but you are some kind of spy."
"Yeah, I'm the REAL kind, NOT the tuxedo kind of guy."

I love that video http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

[Mesotie]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
The problem is with attention span. A lot of gamers now-a-days don't want to earn the right to finish a game, they just want to finish it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
"James Bond and Jason Bourne run fast, they don’t make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly and silently with a sound suppressor, so it’s a lot more dynamic. So we needed to do something with that." -Beland

He should watch/listen this bit (1:36-1:44):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...-0_o&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSBRvZz-0_o&feature=related)

"I'm not a tuxedo kind of guy."
"But, but you are some kind of spy."
"Yeah, I'm the REAL kind, NOT the tuxedo kind of guy."

"I'm the one that gets blood on it..."

Haha classic Fisher, too bad he's on vacation for conviction. They just brought in a body double instead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"I once saw a cat over by the cables..."

That cat was the cat they got for the new Sam Fisher

[sumoaltus]

I just watched the whole thing, I've never seen it before. I love how he tricks a guard into saying his name and number because he thinks it's an exercise, classic.

[Mesotie]

Part one is great too,

"Kill me if you want, but please don't whip me with a towel. You can take my eye out!"

The ending is the best part of it...

"You smell like milk and cookies."

[Real720]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...BgNU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3Cl5wBgNU&feature=related)

0:09-0:31

Sam Fisher's a ninja!!!!

[TreFacTor]

I never really liked Belland. His whole panther tirade, really began to get on my nerves. The maps in conviction really tell the tale of what was going on in the minds of the devs when making the game. the camera is right over Sam's shoulder (was pulled back in previous games), all of the maps are cluttered, and claustrophobic which force CQC or a shootout, and there aren't any multiple entry points (with the exception of the multiplayer ones), or multiple ways to end a level. Conviction is still a good game, but it should have been WAAY better considering the hiatus.

[sumoaltus]

I didn't really feel like a panther at all. I felt outmatched and week.

[Sarapion]

I agree with everything this thread is saying.

The only level i found you could play stealthy was Kobin's mansion, and even then the game is scripted for the guards to yell your name and search for you.

it just really irks me that they butchered this series.
the co-op is THE only decent thing in the game. and surprisingly you can actually bypass SOME enemies.

I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game.

[altair2nd]

Originally posted by Sarapion:
I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game. I agree. I still wouldn't mind Max being in charge, but Redding would do a better job making SC6 have more stealth.

[Joshua Morrison]

Originally posted by altair2nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarapion:
I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game. I agree. I still wouldn't mind Max being in charge, but Redding would do a better job making SC6 have more stealth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? I don't see the logic behind wanting either of them. They didn't appreciate Splinter Cell...plus you don't know anything about who would take their place. You can't be against someone with no knowledge at all, we know Beland and we know a little about Redding.. coop really wasn't that great you had boss battles for crying out loud.

[altair2nd]

Originally posted by JoshuaMorrison:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by altair2nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarapion:
I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game. I agree. I still wouldn't mind Max being in charge, but Redding would do a better job making SC6 have more stealth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Because it's pretty obvious that co-op and deniable ops have alot more stealth then singleplayer. But shanghai could very well be making SC6. But I've heard Beland say "well we've got some plans for the next splinter cell if we decide to make it" or something along those lines. He might've been talking about DLC though.

[shanethebouncer]

Originally posted by altair2nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JoshuaMorrison:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by altair2nd:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarapion:
I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game. I agree. I still wouldn't mind Max being in charge, but Redding would do a better job making SC6 have more stealth. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Because it's pretty obvious that co-op and deniable ops have alot more stealth then singleplayer. But shanghai could very well be making SC6. But I've heard Beland say "well we've got some plans for the next splinter cell if we decide to make it" or something along those lines. He might've been talking about DLC though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh god lets hope hes not a part of the next splinter cell

[Aveelo]

Originally posted by altair2nd:
But I've heard Beland say "well we've got some plans for the next splinter cell if we decide to make it" Yes Say It In Video http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Stealth_chill]

I want to take this time to call out someone who truly matters to me. The person who is always there for me when i need her most. Whenever i need to play a game, but do not want to give the creators my hard earned cash. Check her out..

http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/976/976517/gamefly-to-post-office-stop-breaking-our-discs-20090424060412182.jpg

honestly, i knew from the beginning this was only a rental. Hell, it barley was that. Im glad i did to, the game was ridiculous and mediocre at best. From a rent standpoint, its an ok game. From a purchase standpoint, it aint worth it.

[altair2nd]

Originally posted by Aveelo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by altair2nd:
But I've heard Beland say "well we've got some plans for the next splinter cell if we decide to make it" Yes Say It In Video http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABMAilfgljU&feature=PlayList&p=A41AA55A8214AF7F&playnext_from=PL&index=9) video at 4:30 he mentions that they have some good ideas for the next splinter cell multiplayer, here's an exact quote though:


"Now, umm, we already have some very good ideas if we decide to do another.... *grinning* splinter cell game, I think we've got some good ideas for multiplayer *laughs*"

[newhenpal]

Originally posted by Stealth_chill:
I want to take this time to call out someone who truly matters to me. The person who is always there for me when i need her most. Whenever i need to play a game, but do not want to give the creators my hard earned cash. Check her out..

http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/976/976517/gamefly-to-post-office-stop-breaking-our-discs-20090424060412182.jpg

honestly, i knew from the beginning this was only a rental. Hell, it barley was that. Im glad i did to, the game was ridiculous and mediocre at best. From a rent standpoint, its an ok game. From a purchase standpoint, it aint worth it.

My free trial ended 3 days before I returned that game. I didn't get to sink my teeth into the co-op campaign because my brother's LB and X buttons didn't work, but from playing Hunter, this Archer character came off as an uninteresting d bag. Good thing I rented Dead Rising to wash away the taste of that mediocre game.

[sumoaltus]

Originally posted by Sarapion:
I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game.

I vote the entire team besides Furland scrapped and they bring back Clint Hocking from Chaos Theory.

[Real720]

http://www.mobygames.com/game/...chaos-theory/credits (http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps2/tom-clancys-splinter-cell-chaos-theory/credits)

[Knot3D]

Hey Sumoaltus, I'm glad to see you're seeing the (Dark) Light now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

In the end, it's all Ubi's own call. They wanted a certain change...and for that, they found Beland. He just happens to fit what they wanted.

Now, I do think that the faster, more agile moves and CQC are great renovations to the SC franchise.

But things go wrong at the point where Beland is taking major cues from Hollywood movies and shooting.

SC's main family value is and should be "Your gun should always be your LAST resort."
Quick shooting take downs work in movies, because it releases the tension arc of the scene. Movie scenes are the epitome of handcrafted editing work which is extremely linear.
The fallacy is that they thought this sort of arc works in SC's gameplay loop....

It doesn't ; it hollows out the tension of the player's sneaking which he is doing in realtime.

Also, if Sam's so fast and agile like a super ninja....why the shootouts ? A REAL guy takes 'em out with 90% sneaking upclose, 10% shooting ( and let it be sniper shots ), NOT the other way around. ( M & E )

Beland's hate for the wetsuit is also hypocrit ; He claims it makes Sam look like a Batman super hero....well....somehow....this Conviction Sam, moves and acts like a Marvel Superhero http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Hollywood is not bad necessarily...but shoe horning it into a game is usually the WORST idea.

* Don't worry, I'm still going to give this game a chance to play when it releases on PC. Deniable Ops and Hunter Mode look fun and I'll just minimize use of M & E.

[Cyrus.H]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sarapion:
I vote Patrick Redding takes over and makes the new splinter cell game. he seems to have at least some understanding of what makes a stealth game a stealth game.

I vote the entire team besides Furland scrapped and they bring back Clint Hocking from Chaos Theory. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me clear something up for you.

Mathieu Ferland wasn't even on the Splinter Cell: Conviction development team.

When Ubisoft scrapped the 2007 build of Splinter Cell: ConViction, they also scrapped Mathieu Ferland (the senior producer of the original Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell) and the Chaos Theory development team in favour of Maxime Béland (a.k.a. Monsieur Pew Pew Pew) and his gang of half-wits that bastardized the Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six series.

[HowlinLemon]

You'll find not using M&E difficult. That's what I thought I would do but there are just too many occasions when you're forced into confrontation with unbelievable odds. It's possible but it's not so much fun because the game isn't desinged to allow you to do it really. In fact alot of the time in Conviction is spent being pursued, when the guards, without seeing you, know "Sam Fisher's on his way".

I think if someone posts up a poll of people's favourite level I'd be bet it would be the car park and the rest of the level to a certain extent. For those that haven't played it I won't go into it too much. Needless to say it's the one level that reproduces the old gameplay style and after a ton of shootouts it was the one level that had my heart-pounding again as I slipped by guards inches away without them knowing. The most and for me only really thrillin moment.

[DoxilonQ]

After reading all these posts, I'm starting to feel sorry for my order of this game, but I will still give it a chance, since I don't have a choice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[savior2006]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
Ergh, that's what frustrates me the most, I wasn't really left with a sense of accomplishment after completing Conviction. I just don't see where the team was trying to go with the whole story.

I've honestly seen commercials with better storylines. The funny thing is, I was an avid supporter of this game since te beginning, it's a shame that I was proved otherwise.
Oh my stars, Sumo! Why do you hate change?! Why don't you play the previous games if you want some resemblance of stealth?! You don't have to M&E if you don't want to! There are other people in the world besides you! If you don't agree with me then why are you on the forums??????!!!!!
/sarcasm

[Jazz117Volkov]

To be honest I didn't read the interview... couldn't be bothered. It's nothing I don't already know.

I'm buying Conviction because I believe it will be a good game. A good Splinter Cell game... well I'm yet to be convinced.
But I know what I'm in for and I'm sure I'm gonna have a heck of a fun time playing it to death.
But more to the point of the topic, there is no such thing as a game that is too hardcore.
There is nothing better then a game that fits its player like a glove if you know what I mean.

I love the fact that Ninja Gaiden II (on Mentor) is taking me months to get through because it's so damn hard.
If that game only had Acolyte and Warrior for difficulty settings I'd be very unhappy.

I just thrashed Bayonetta the other day, and I was a little annoyed at how easy the boss fights were. IMO the HARD setting should have been unlocked from the start.

Metal Gear Solid 2 Substance is another good one. It's got six difficulty settings. And the Hardest one makes you fight for every inch, and it's awesome.

But now we have Conviction, and the likes. Were the only thing that in the difficulty list is the easy setting, then the one easier, and finally we have the easiest one, kinda feels like a tutorial mode. (going by the demo, I'm yet to pick up my pre-order)
I hope that the full game is a lot harder then the demo but I still know that it won't be difficult.

Anyways, life goes on... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[solenoid]

Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sumoaltus:
That's all we play dude, and hunter. 1v1 is just a button mashing contest.

It really is.
Solenoid and I played last night, with guards.
I thought there'd be more strategy involved, but it really is down to running and gunning (and button mashing, if you get near the other player), if you really want to win.

I'll enjoy Hunter, Infiltration, and Last Stand until no one's online anymore. Once you guys move on, I'll only ever touch the game when a friend comes over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought it was fun, ESPECIALLY WITH MY EPIC COMEBACK!!!!

Yes I was down, 2 games to none and won three in a row!

[sumoaltus]

Originally posted by savior2006:
Oh my stars, Sumo! Why do you hate change?! Why don't you play the previous games if you want some resemblance of stealth?! You don't have to M&E if you don't want to! There are other people in the world besides you! If you don't agree with me then why are you on the forums??????!!!!!
/sarcasm

Haha Savior I was always a darksider at heart, I just reall had a lot of faith in this game. Now I can see that they didn't deliver, I know you're surprised to see me go this direction though.

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

Originally posted by Real720:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...BgNU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3Cl5wBgNU&feature=related)

0:09-0:31

Sam Fisher's a ninja!!!!

Epic win. Those interrogations give me the lulz

[sumoaltus]

he old Sam Fisher quotes, gotta love 'em.

[insanity76]

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...BgNU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3Cl5wBgNU&feature=related)

0:09-0:31

Sam Fisher's a ninja!!!!

Epic win. Those interrogations give me the lulz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL that guy was so off the reservation even Sam was left somewhat speechless.

And I love 1:22.

"What are you doing here?"
"Ohh.h. What are .. you doing here?"
"Are you stupid?? I have a knife to your throat .."

[sumoaltus]

Originally posted by Cyrus.H:
Let me clear something up for you.

Mathieu Ferland wasn't even on the Splinter Cell: Conviction development team.

When Ubisoft scrapped the 2007 build of Splinter Cell: ConViction, they also scrapped Mathieu Ferland (the senior producer of the original Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell) and the Chaos Theory development team in favour of Maxime Béland (a.k.a. Monsieur Pew Pew Pew) and his gang of half-wits that bastardized the Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six series.

All I know is that this team needs to be stopped before they do some real damage in the gaming industry.

[Aveelo]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
All I know is that this team needs to be stopped before they do some real damage To All darksiders

Fix

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
he old Sam Fisher quotes, gotta love 'em.

One of my favorites has to be

05:47-06:17

You don't get this sort of stuff in Conviction at all. It's all cheesy Hollywood kill quips *sigh*

[savior2006]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by savior2006:
Oh my stars, Sumo! Why do you hate change?! Why don't you play the previous games if you want some resemblance of stealth?! You don't have to M&E if you don't want to! There are other people in the world besides you! If you don't agree with me then why are you on the forums??????!!!!!
/sarcasm

Haha Savior I was always a darksider at heart, I just really had a lot of faith in this game. Now I can see that they didn't deliver, I know you're surprised to see me go this direction though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry the game didn't meet your expectations. We darksiders didn't say "Conviction has fewer stealth options" for no reason, you know. The critics and and user reviews on Metacritic think its fairly pretty good, so I would still get it myself but as you know its not on PS3. Personally, I'd love to slap Jamesdreng on FaceOff for all the times he's bashed Spies vs. Merc but oh well.

[D_R_A_G_x_O_N]

I love how a lot of people feel like me. This game was an embarassment to the franchise. Glad it was a rent. Bring back Hocking and SvM, then the game could be the epic L/S game we all know and fell in love with. Too bad Ubi only cares about their sales and not the hardcore fans like us. I wrote a review in the "Official Feedback" thread. Please read it. Hopefully most will agree. I encourage everyone in this thread to post there and post there real feelings. They need to know. The whole dev team should never be allowed to touch another SC again. This was a sorry excuse for an SC. Only Ubi would screw over it's fans, don't see bungie or epic games changing their successful series. Just building more ontop of it. CT was the best game ever. So unique and now they make SC like every other game out there. Looks identical to Alpha Protocol. If it's not broke don't fix it.

[insanity76]

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sumoaltus:
he old Sam Fisher quotes, gotta love 'em.

One of my favorites has to be

05:47-06:17

You don't get this sort of stuff in Conviction at all. It's all cheesy Hollywood kill quips *sigh* </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And before that, at 5:00, lmao "You know it's not true that you go unconscious before you hit the ground. You see it comin the whole way."

[sumoaltus]

Originally posted by D_R_A_G_x_O_N:
I love how a lot of people feel like me. This game was an embarassment to the franchise. Glad it was a rent. Bring back Hocking and SvM, then the game could be the epic L/S game we all know and fell in love with. Too bad Ubi only cares about their sales and not the hardcore fans like us. I wrote a review in the "Official Feedback" thread. Please read it. Hopefully most will agree. I encourage everyone in this thread to post there and post there real feelings. They need to know. The whole dev team should never be allowed to touch another SC again. This was a sorry excuse for an SC. Only Ubi would screw over it's fans, don't see bungie or epic games changing their successful series. Just building more ontop of it. CT was the best game ever. So unique and now they make SC like every other game out there. Looks identical to Alpha Protocol. If it's not broke don't fix it.

Don't forget about Bioware, they just build on great titles like Mass Effect.

[SilencedScream0]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D_R_A_G_x_O_N:
I love how a lot of people feel like me. This game was an embarassment to the franchise. Glad it was a rent. Bring back Hocking and SvM, then the game could be the epic L/S game we all know and fell in love with. Too bad Ubi only cares about their sales and not the hardcore fans like us. I wrote a review in the "Official Feedback" thread. Please read it. Hopefully most will agree. I encourage everyone in this thread to post there and post there real feelings. They need to know. The whole dev team should never be allowed to touch another SC again. This was a sorry excuse for an SC. Only Ubi would screw over it's fans, don't see bungie or epic games changing their successful series. Just building more ontop of it. CT was the best game ever. So unique and now they make SC like every other game out there. Looks identical to Alpha Protocol. If it's not broke don't fix it.

Don't forget about Bioware, they just build on great titles like Mass Effect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And all the people saying that, after four games, Splinter Cell needed a change?

There have been EIGHT different console/PC versions of Call of Duty (1, 2, 3, MW, WaW, MW2, Finest Hour, and 2: Big Red One). And guess what? Other than graphics and subtle add-ons, they're ALL the same (granted, two of them are not in WW2, and one has zombies - gameplay remains unchanged).

And what game has been at the top of the charts on Live since release?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Metninja]

My fav quote from him was that sam used to move like a grandma... even with the split jump, rolls, etc. so now he scales ledges at 100 feet per second by his fingertips. moron.

[sumoaltus]

Don't forget about captain american jumping twenty-five feet from a rail to death from above a Chatty Kathy NPC.

[solenoid]

Originally posted by SilencedScream0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sumoaltus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D_R_A_G_x_O_N:
I love how a lot of people feel like me. This game was an embarassment to the franchise. Glad it was a rent. Bring back Hocking and SvM, then the game could be the epic L/S game we all know and fell in love with. Too bad Ubi only cares about their sales and not the hardcore fans like us. I wrote a review in the "Official Feedback" thread. Please read it. Hopefully most will agree. I encourage everyone in this thread to post there and post there real feelings. They need to know. The whole dev team should never be allowed to touch another SC again. This was a sorry excuse for an SC. Only Ubi would screw over it's fans, don't see bungie or epic games changing their successful series. Just building more ontop of it. CT was the best game ever. So unique and now they make SC like every other game out there. Looks identical to Alpha Protocol. If it's not broke don't fix it.

Don't forget about Bioware, they just build on great titles like Mass Effect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And all the people saying that, after four games, Splinter Cell needed a change?

There have been EIGHT different console/PC versions of Call of Duty (1, 2, 3, MW, WaW, MW2, Finest Hour, and 2: Big Red One). And guess what? Other than graphics and subtle add-ons, they're ALL the same (granted, two of them are not in WW2, and one has zombies - gameplay remains unchanged).

And what game has been at the top of the charts on Live since release?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's right but they have always been on the charts. If I'm not mistaken, none of those series have "bombed".

Double Agent did bomb, which is why they made the change.

As far as they Call of Duty series goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Double Agent was definitely broken and needed some fixing. In my humble opinion, they went a little too far but we'll see how the gamble pays off on the next game.

[SilencedScream0]

Originally posted by solenoid:
That's right but they have always been on the charts. If I'm not mistaken, none of those series have "bombed".

Double Agent did bomb, which is why they made the change.

As far as they Call of Duty series goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Double Agent was definitely broken and needed some fixing. In my humble opinion, they went a little too far but we'll see how the gamble pays off on the next game.

I wouldn't say DA bombed, per se.
But the whole SC series has never been comparable in sales to CoD. You're definitely right that the change was to try to get the sales up, though.

[Sarapion]

i never had any qualms with double agent. i thought it was fun and it had stealth gameplay.

but with conviction's release and its total lack of stealth.

why can't we be nicer to double agent? lol.

[icenutzz]

Originally posted by Sarapion:
i never had any qualms with double agent. i thought it was fun and it had stealth gameplay.

but with conviction's release and its total lack of stealth.

why can't we be nicer to double agent? lol.

After this, I would take another DA in a heart beat!

[sumoaltus]

I don't mind Double Agent that much, it's a bit more believable than Splinter Cell: Panther.

[Sarapion]

the lightsiders and darksiders need to make a comprehensive list of features that we want for splinter cell 6. and try to find a middle ground.

i've lobbied for this, but nobody seems interested. is there anybody who can try and set this up? or at least get the ball rolling?

[altair2nd]

Originally posted by Sarapion:
the lightsiders and darksiders need to make a comprehensive list of features that we want for splinter cell 6. and try to find a middle ground.

i've lobbied for this, but nobody seems interested. is there anybody who can try and set this up? or at least get the ball rolling? I'll start typing my list now, it might take awhile.

[Sarapion]

the only way this would work is that there will have to be a middle ground. sacrifices will have to be made to appease both parties.

I just want the next splinter cell game to be the best it can be

i hope this is possible. would appreciate more people trying to do this.

and thanks altair2nd for starting this.

[altair2nd]

-Improved stealth mechanics(being able to ghost)
-Body carrying
-Whistling
-P.E.C.
-SvM
-Co-op
-A new story with a new splinter cell in campaign(possibly Sam taking Lamberts place)
-Combat knife
-Co-op moves
-Realistic climbing like in the old SCs
-Limited pistol ammo
-Conviction shooting mechanics


That's all I can think of right now.


Originally posted by Sarapion:
and thanks altair2nd for starting this. No problem, glad to help.

[CaptainROE]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
Yeah, I don't know. Panthers don't get into gunfights.

You clearly need to live in the jungle. Panthers use USP's all the time

[Sarapion]

should there be an actual thread dedicated to this?

I'll make one if necessary.

[altair2nd]

Originally posted by Sarapion:
should there be an actual thread dedicated to this?

I'll make one if necessary. Yeah, I'd go ahead and make one.

Something like "what would you like in SC6?" would be good.

[savior2006]

Real world ballistics. Accounting for gravity, the effect of the earth spinning and moving under the bullet (can't remember the name). Certain ammunition can punch through certain materials. Etc,.
A promise that Beland will not touch it at all, whatsoever.

[logik1911]

Wasn't Ferland responsible for the 07 build? That build almost ended the franchise, lol. The reaction to it was lukewarm at BEST. When it made it's debut, the crowd watching sat there in stunned silence and barely put together polite applause by the time the demo was over. I think Ferland's time has passed and he peaked with Chaos Theory. The series definitely needed some fresh blood.

Beland did his job. He created excitement for the game, got it a Metacritic score of 86 including 90 and above from the more respected gaming sites, and is probably doing decent sales numbers.

from having played the game, I can tell that it only needs to be tweaked more in the direction of stealth and this clearly was a rush job. a damn good rush job at that. You should be thanking Beland for keeping this IP relevant and bringing it back from the brink.

Sam now moves great, shoots great, and faces AI that he must actively elude. Wasn't that the goal of the original 07 build anyway?? I distinctly remember guys getting tossed 20 feet through the air! Give the developers a chance to tweak the stealth in the next game more to your liking before completely writing off the franchise. I see the rhetoric on here but the reality is, you cannot run and gun through Conviction. Sure, ghosting is impossible, but you can play smart, aim for minimal detection, and engage SOME enemies once discovered. I can play without getting into a real shootout until i'm in downtown DC.

[Eric_Steinway]

Ferland wasn't the best man to clean up the mess Ubi Shanghai made with the end of DA obviously.

But I want "Chaos Theory 2", and I think he'd be one of the best people for that.

[sumoaltus]

Originally posted by savior2006:
Real world ballistics. Accounting for gravity, the effect of the earth spinning and moving under the bullet (can't remember the name). Certain ammunition can punch through certain materials. Etc,.
A promise that Beland will not touch it at all, whatsoever.

Coriolis effect I think.

[savior2006]

Originally posted by sumoaltus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by savior2006:
Real world ballistics. Accounting for gravity, the effect of the earth spinning and moving under the bullet (can't remember the name). Certain ammunition can punch through certain materials. Etc,.
A promise that Beland will not touch it at all, whatsoever.

Coriolis effect I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's it. I heard it in the sniper level of COD4.

[Eric_Steinway]

Originally posted by savior2006:
Real world ballistics. Accounting for gravity, the effect of the earth spinning and moving under the bullet (can't remember the name).


That would be pointless in a SC game.

[logik1911]

I just watched sam blow up a hot dog stand in the old build...in broad daylight no less...with an assault rifle.

[oO_ShadowFox_Oo]

Originally posted by LOGIK1911:
I just watched sam blow up a hot dog stand in the old build...in broad daylight no less...with an assault rifle.

It was a silenced MP5.

And need I remind you that he takes on an assault helicopter in the new build

It actually surprises me how much this trailer is similar to Conviction as we know it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EUJYh32KVw

[logik1911]

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LOGIK1911:
I just watched sam blow up a hot dog stand in the old build...in broad daylight no less...with an assault rifle.

It was a silenced MP5.

And need I remind you that he takes on an assault helicopter in the new build

It actually surprises me how much this trailer is similar to Conviction as we know it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EUJYh32KVw </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't get me wrong, parts of the new build were ridiculous, too. I'm not a lightsider or darksider-just someone who appreciates a good game, and what I saw in 07 did not appeal to me at all. Considering the turmoil the game has been under, I consider the final outcome to be a success-one that has plenty of potential and can be improved upon stealth wise.

I just don't think it's the worst game ever made or ruined the franchise like some have been saying. I think it's a pretty good game that averted a potential disaster. I certainly enjoyed the co-op, single player, and most of the deniable ops. I haven't even gone near infiltration yet. It's alot of value if you're a Sam Fisher fan.

[newhenpal]

Originally posted by LOGIK1911:
Wasn't Ferland responsible for the 07 build? That build almost ended the franchise, lol. The reaction to it was lukewarm at BEST. When it made it's debut, the crowd watching sat there in stunned silence and barely put together polite applause by the time the demo was over. I think Ferland's time has passed and he peaked with Chaos Theory. The series definitely needed some fresh blood.

Beland did his job. He created excitement for the game, got it a Metacritic score of 86 including 90 and above from the more respected gaming sites, and is probably doing decent sales numbers.

from having played the game, I can tell that it only needs to be tweaked more in the direction of stealth and this clearly was a rush job. a damn good rush job at that. You should be thanking Beland for keeping this IP relevant and bringing it back from the brink.

Sam now moves great, shoots great, and faces AI that he must actively elude. Wasn't that the goal of the original 07 build anyway?? I distinctly remember guys getting tossed 20 feet through the air! Give the developers a chance to tweak the stealth in the next game more to your liking before completely writing off the franchise. I see the rhetoric on here but the reality is, you cannot run and gun through Conviction. Sure, ghosting is impossible, but you can play smart, aim for minimal detection, and engage SOME enemies once discovered. I can play without getting into a real shootout until i'm in downtown DC.


And so the pleas to wait for a sequel are being made.

Also, don't forget that baddies can still be thrown around like ragdolls in this game; the (small) arsenal of assault rifles; or the hot dog stands in the national mall.

[D_R_A_G_x_O_N]

This is not a Splinter Cell game. It's a rip off of Alpha Protocol from the looks. Change is okay but not the way they did it. It's not the same. You can't play Chaos Theory and then Conviction thinking it's the same series. It's totally different minus characters. I don't get what Max or the dev team thought they were accomplishing when they made this. It's an okay game but an awful part of the series. It just didn't feel right. CoD and Halo are successful because they keep the original fans happy along with bringing in new comers. This game seemed to just appeal to new comers. I loved ghosting levels, now I'm forced to shoot and blow up enemies. It's so linear I can't even sneak by them. Ubi shoved this innovation down our throats. Atleast give me an option. Just give hardcore fans like me or Shadow or the bunch of others on here the rights to the game. I bet we could do more to save this series than a bunch of nimrods who think they are good developers and need to do things their way other than the original SC roots.

[stavros_27]

Couldn't agree more, Logik. The astounding thing is that I remember reading that Ferland wanted to have his team comprised of people who had been with the series from the beginning, and who really knew and invested time in Sam Fisher and history of the series.

It looks like they wanted Conviction to make the same impact on people as the original SC did, with a new, amazing stealth experience never seen before (L&S the first, then crowd stealth and improvisation for Conviction). The problem was that Conviction was not the first game of a new franchise like the first SC was.

You can't remove every core mechanic of the franchise and try to convince us that it's a good thing. The New Conviction removed some of those, and there has been a backlash about it. But they brought a lot of them back, too.

The original Conviction removed ALL of them. I am disappointed that the new Conviction removed some of the gameplay elements from the past, but imagine if we got our hands on Conviction at it's planned release date at Christmas 2007. Worst. Christmas. Ever.

[logik1911]

Originally posted by D_R_A_G_x_O_N:
This is not a Splinter Cell game. It's a rip off of Alpha Protocol from the looks. Change is okay but not the way they did it. It's not the same. You can't play Chaos Theory and then Conviction thinking it's the same series. It's totally different minus characters. I don't get what Max or the dev team thought they were accomplishing when they made this. It's an okay game but an awful part of the series. It just didn't feel right. CoD and Halo are successful because they keep the original fans happy along with bringing in new comers. This game seemed to just appeal to new comers. I loved ghosting levels, now I'm forced to shoot and blow up enemies. It's so linear I can't even sneak by them. Ubi shoved this innovation down our throats. Atleast give me an option. Just give hardcore fans like me or Shadow or the bunch of others on here the rights to the game. I bet we could do more to save this series than a bunch of nimrods who think they are good developers and need to do things their way other than the original SC roots.

What exactly does Halo Wars have in common with previous Halo games?

[Joshua Morrison]

Originally posted by LOGIK1911:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D_R_A_G_x_O_N:
This is not a Splinter Cell game. It's a rip off of Alpha Protocol from the looks. Change is okay but not the way they did it. It's not the same. You can't play Chaos Theory and then Conviction thinking it's the same series. It's totally different minus characters. I don't get what Max or the dev team thought they were accomplishing when they made this. It's an okay game but an awful part of the series. It just didn't feel right. CoD and Halo are successful because they keep the original fans happy along with bringing in new comers. This game seemed to just appeal to new comers. I loved ghosting levels, now I'm forced to shoot and blow up enemies. It's so linear I can't even sneak by them. Ubi shoved this innovation down our throats. Atleast give me an option. Just give hardcore fans like me or Shadow or the bunch of others on here the rights to the game. I bet we could do more to save this series than a bunch of nimrods who think they are good developers and need to do things their way other than the original SC roots.

What exactly does Halo Wars have in common with previous Halo games? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Halo Wars has a different title.. and it doesn't claim to be Halo 4. Convictions does however claim to be Splinter Cell 5.

[sumoaltus]

I just beat it again tonight, it really becomes an all out shooter once you get to the White House map.

[D_R_A_G_x_O_N]

I know. I played the White House map on realistic and beat it but I couldn't beat it without shooting atleast 12 guys. Couldn't sneak because they walk right to you.

[sumoaltus]

...and the Splinter Cells know where you are regardless. It's really just a lose/lose.