I would like more Town Types [Archive]

Zamolxis108

04-06-2005, 09:32 AM

I believe I read so far that we'll have 6 towns: 1 new, and 5 from the previous games.

I would have suggested a bit more like:

1. A Knight/Castle/Haven type of town.
2. A Demon/Inferno type of town.
3. A Tower/Order/Academy(/Icy/Showy/Arctic) type of town.
4. A Chaos/Dungeon type of town.
5. A Preserve/Nature/Rampart type of town.
6. A Necro/Death type of town.
7. A Barbarian/Stronghold type of town.
8. A Swamp (H3 fortress) type of town.
9. A new Desert town (scarabs, sand golems, nomads/bedouins, anubits, scorpicores, mummies, sphinx etc)
10. A new Ocean town.

I would really have enjoyed keeping the first 7-8 towns listed above.

ShPhoenix

04-06-2005, 09:55 AM

You do realize that HOMM1 only had 4 towns and that HOMM2 only had 6 and they did just fine...

You may want to wait and see what the towns actually are. You never know, you may just be impressed.

And if you were to ask me, I'd say the Barbarian was split between the Fortress and the Stronghold and I could see a possibile combination of those two towns, or a return to the earlier HOMM1 & HOMM2 barbarian town. But that's my opinion and I imagine not too many people are going to agree with it.

Camay1

04-06-2005, 10:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ShPhoenix:
You do realize that HOMM1 only had 4 towns and that HOMM2 only had 6 and they did just fine...

You may want to wait and see what the towns actually are. You never know, you _may_ just be impressed.

And if you were to ask me, I'd say the Barbarian was split between the Fortress and the Stronghold and I could see a possibile combination of those two towns, or a return to the earlier HOMM1 & HOMM2 barbarian town. But that's my opinion and I imagine not too many people are going to agree with it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very good point of view. I think that Nival is already in love with the series and will do a intelligent job with Heroes V.

We have to be aware that even if Heroes IV development was weird, it's Nival here ! And we dont have any reason to get our old dissatisfaction on to the dev. of Homm V

Yoda_reborn

04-06-2005, 10:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ShPhoenix:
You do realize that HOMM1 only had 4 towns and that HOMM2 only had 6 and they did just fine...

You may want to wait and see what the towns actually are. You never know, you _may_ just be impressed.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You do realize that HOMM2 came after HOMM1, and it's normal it had 6 towns (two more than the previous), because they wanted to give sth more to the fans. And they did. And it was good.

You do also realize that HOMM3 came after HOMM2, so it's normal it had 9 towns, because they again wanted to give more to the fans. And they succeded. The game was a real success.

And what did they do next. HOMM4, with 2 less towns & 2 other mixed in one. Suicidal indeed. What followed was bankruptcy. And now Ubi takes the same path...

But one year is a long time to go. They have more than enough time to realize the mistake they did and corect it. If they want they can create even 3-4 new alignments in one year. But this also depends on us: if we are willing to accept everything they give us or not. I totally support the movement of convincing them to bring back all the alignments in HOMM3!!!

Campaigner_1st

04-06-2005, 11:47 AM

I for one totally support having "only" six towns. You do understand that if the towns isn't diverse enough in tactics and flavor they are just copies of eachother right?
As I've said a hundred times already, I'll much rather have six original towns unique in tactics and flavor than nine towns that are equal. And what exactly makes you think that "more towns = better...?" The Heroes II towns were very different while the towns from Heroes III were much more equal making it worse IMO.

I certainly hope UbiSoft and Nival understands that not all fans support the "more towns is better!!!!!!!"

The-Filth

04-06-2005, 11:49 AM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. During the nexts weeks the towns will be revealed to us. So I'll wait until I know what creatures is in the game, or not in the game, before i join your little crying party here.

If I dont like what I see when we get the creature lists, I'll be happy to voice my opinion, and cry my heart out.
And If i like what I see I'll be happy to fight for what ubi/nival has done.

NailagCiad

04-06-2005, 12:35 PM

Hey, what's with mods editing this thread? I can understand if certain posts came through as a bit on the trollish side(my own included), but why just silently editing them? While I don't agree with certain of the opinions expressed here, I don't think they should be hidden away even if they're unconfortable.

Kareeah_Indaga

04-06-2005, 12:49 PM

Personally I feel it was very intelligent on Nivalââ‚¬™s part not to bite off more than they could chew. HV is their first Heroes game and it is very sensible not to dump in twice as many towns when they have little to no experience with the series. Furthur, this also leaves them lots of room for an expansion or two.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The-Filth:
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. During the nexts weeks the towns will be revealed to us. So I'll wait until I know what creatures is in the game, or not in the game, before i join your little crying party here.

If I dont like what I see when we get the creature lists, I'll be happy to voice my opinion, and cry my heart out.
And If i like what I see I'll be happy to fight for what ubi/nival has done. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Likewise.

Alais_Servius

04-06-2005, 01:55 PM

Totally agree with Campaigner_1st, The-Filth and Kareeah_Indaga. Remember, all of you guys out there that complains about "only" 6 towns:

- This leaves room for further expansions
- The towns are likely to be more varied from each other
-When 3DO and NWC made the third version, they already had plenty of experience with HOMM.
As Kareeah_Indaga wrote, Nival shoulden't bite of more than they can chew.

6 towns is IMO very balanced

Real_King_Louis

04-06-2005, 02:34 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by NailagCiad:
Hey, what's with mods editing this thread? I can understand if certain posts came through as a bit on the trollish side(my own included), but why just silently editing them? While I don't agree with certain of the opinions expressed here, I don't think they should be hidden away even if they're unconfortable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The original post by Zamolxis108 was clearly a bashing attempt. Instead of sending the whole thread in oblivion (that would be hiding something) , I thought it interesting to turn it into a more valuable discussion on the number of towns and their types.

As I cropped a bit the original post, there was no more need for the rebukes, so I also deleted those out, understanding that the maturity of the posters that replied to Zamolxis108 would make them less sensitive to my actions.

So you may still agree or disagree on the number of towns, their tyoes, their mix, or even refer to your experience with the game as it evolved in time from King's Bounty to H5.

Go ahead, discuss at will, we are not hiding anything we are trying to make it a worthwhile discussion.

- Kingo -

NailagCiad

04-06-2005, 02:41 PM

Understood. It's just that it feels kind of strange to have ones posts removed without any note as to why. And I think it's more effective to actually point out when a certain kind of behavior wont be accepted.

phoenixzs

04-06-2005, 02:43 PM

Having not made any heroes games is not an excuse for making a bad game imo.Afterall they made blietzkrieg which is a well designed deep game.Furthermore they have 4 examples and a huge fan database in front of them which they should make use of.
I dont know what system they are using for 6 towns but they will probably leave out some core ones behind to make the castles fit.I am not saying more towns are better but neither is less.I wouldnot mind having 6 towns if the creatures are not left out.Sure to balance 6 towns would be easier than 7 but isnt 5 easier than 6.We could continue this to 1 where all would be equal,but what have we lost?Difference and depth perhaps?
I will wait till the castles are anounced but still its also not wise to defend the makers to the releasing time of the game because at that time there is no need to express our feeling about the game that is already complete.
By the way Nival has already bitten by saying we are going to make Heroes 5,now its time to chew hard and make no excuse for it.

Yuri_Kenobi

04-06-2005, 02:51 PM

Everyone would like more towns, but the problem is limited time and money.

btw.: it's nice that they finally got moderators working here.

RexMund1

04-06-2005, 03:16 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by NailagCiad:
Understood. It's just that it feels kind of strange to have ones posts removed without any note as to why. And I think it's more effective to actually point out when a certain kind of behavior wont be accepted. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe that Kingo feels that it is effeective enough to remove the offending material without bringing undue attention to it. if you wrote something and notice it was clipped...assume it was not something that will be tolerated and you'll have learned the intended lesson.

as to the original thoughts in this thread...
I continue to be amazed that there is a need or desire to complain about what you are getting before you even know what it is..

Seeing Zamolxis108's Ideas...I'm content knowing he/she isn't designing it.

Elor_Once_Dark

04-06-2005, 03:50 PM

I fully agree with phoenixzs

More or less towns isn't an issue of how balanced the game WILL be, just how easy it is for the makers to juggle the different parts. And, well, the easiest would be not to try juggling at all. What's more, though, the towns are much more than different strategies to play the game. They also come with a certain style. I know I didn't play several towns in H3 not because I didn't like the way they performed, but because the style of the town just wasn't my cup of tea. On the other hand, I played others even though they might not have been strategically appealing because I liked the creatures. Now far from expecting to have those cut out I didn't like, I say, hey, others might like those other towns. So more towns, more different atmospheres to play in. Now, I don't say the more, the better, but I think that H3 provided a nice array of different atmospheres, and that I felt H4 seriously limiting in that aspect, because if you don't dig one or two factions, you get seriously limited in your choices.

The-Filth

04-06-2005, 04:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Elor_Once_Dark:
I fully agree with phoenixzs

More or less towns isn't an issue of how balanced the game WILL be, just how easy it is for the makers to juggle the different parts. And, well, the easiest would be not to try juggling at all. What's more, though, the towns are much more than different strategies to play the game. They also come with a certain style. I know I didn't play several towns in H3 not because I didn't like the way they performed, but because the style of the town just wasn't my cup of tea. On the other hand, I played others even though they might not have been strategically appealing because I liked the creatures. Now far from expecting to have those cut out I didn't like, I say, hey, others might like those other towns. So more towns, more different atmospheres to play in. Now, I don't say the more, the better, but I think that H3 provided a nice array of different atmospheres, and that I felt H4 seriously limiting in that aspect, because if you don't dig one or two factions, you get seriously limited in your choices. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldnt have said it better my self.
Actually, for me the towns in Homm 4 didnt have atmosphere at all. Neither of the towns had their own look or theme. They all just looked the same. And that generalization of towns was the biggest reason I prefer Homm 2 and 3 over homm 4.

Omega_Destroyer

04-06-2005, 04:06 PM

I agree that 6 towns is enough. Heroes 2 only had the 6 towns and that is argueably the best game in the series. Having more towns won't necessairly make the game any better. I also agree that it's wise that they are opting for fewer towns on their first attempt.

Real_King_Louis

04-06-2005, 05:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>btw.: it's nice that they finally got moderators working here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are most welcomed. But boards can be self-moderated if all do not respond to threats, or gently steer misguided users into posting responsibly. Trolls kind of go away under their bridge if left alone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Marelt

04-06-2005, 06:12 PM

I, for one, are more in favour of the uniqueness of the towns. According to the Filth, all towns looked the same in Heroes 4. That is true, but that was a pure graphics issue. The towns were adapted to the landscape, which caused trouble with the graphics and uniqueness of the towns themselves. Many ways have been suggested to correct this, so I'm not too worried about this problem happening again.

It is more the uniqueness in strategy that I'm worried about. Heroes 3 had indeed the problem that practically every town worked the same way. They all had the same magic. The lower level creatures were devoid of special abilities and the higher level creatures mostly had generic ones. The only truly unique and versatile creatures were the mighty gorgon and the vampire lord.

Towns in heroes 4 looked the same, but played very differently. Playing with an Order town was a very different battle from playing with a Death or Barbarian town. I just hope that they can preserve this kind of uniqueness

Elor_Once_Dark

04-07-2005, 12:43 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Marelt:
I, for one, are more in favour of the uniqueness of the towns. According to the Filth, all towns looked the same in Heroes 4. That is true, but that was a pure graphics issue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So go ahead, dig UMS out of the bargin bin, if you don't care about graphics. This is a strawman.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
It is more the uniqueness in strategy that I'm worried about. Heroes 3 had indeed the problem that practically every town worked the same way. They all had the same magic. The lower level creatures were devoid of special abilities and the higher level creatures mostly had generic ones. The only truly unique and versatile creatures were the mighty gorgon and the vampire lord. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Demonstrably false. First of all, lower level creatures are lower level creatures because they don't have the be-all-end-all of abilities. But the Gog/Magog had an area attack, and other ranged attackers could attack twice. As for higher level creatures, what for you is "generic"? The devils' teleport didn't look generic to me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>
Towns in heroes 4 looked the same, but played very differently. Playing with an Order town was a very different battle from playing with a Death or Barbarian town. I just hope that they can preserve this kind of uniqueness <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's no playing differently if you don't play the faction at all because you can't stand the units.

khabal

04-07-2005, 01:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Omega_Destroyer:
I agree that 6 towns is enough. Heroes 2 only had the 6 towns and that is argueably the best game in the series. Having more towns won't necessairly make the game any better. I also agree that it's wise that they are opting for fewer towns on their first attempt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that H2 was the best game in the series, but we have to matters here:

Firstly, weâÂ´ve played with 3 brand new factions in H3, at least two of them very, very funny, and weâÂ´re going to lose them. I myself donâÂ´t like anybody taking my tender away. H4 restructured the saga factions and we saw the results: it has followers, but mostly the Heroes comunity dislikes it.

In the other hand, I donâÂ´t think "the more the merrier", but I DO think "if something works, why donâÂ´t improve it instead of change it?"

Anyway, waiting is the smartest thing; IâÂ´ll buy this Heroes V anyway jejeje.

karlito31

04-07-2005, 02:38 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Towns in heroes 4 looked the same, but played very differently. Playing with an Order town was a very different battle from playing with a Death or Barbarian town. I just hope that they can preserve this kind of uniqueness <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreee completely!

And , for strategy game, that is way more inportant than if someone fancy some units or not.

Elor_Once_Dark

04-07-2005, 03:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by karlito31:
Agreee completely!

And , for strategy game, that is way more inportant than if someone fancy some units or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only that it isn't a pure strategy game.

Zamolxis108

04-07-2005, 08:24 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Real_King_Louis:
The original post by Zamolxis108 was clearly a bashing attempt... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm sorry if this is how it looked like. It was not at all my intention. Pretty far from a clear bashing attempt (as you say), it was more a reaction of a fan suddently deeply disappointed.

I am neither a negativist nor an enemy of H5, smb who just joined the forum to "bash" around. This forum is pretty new, but check out the Round Table Heroes Forum, to see my posts. There were people saying there cannot be a real Heroes game without the original team that worked on H1-2-3. I was saying: have patience and give them a chance, you might be amazed. There were people saying for them Heroes can only be 2D. I was saying: if they do it well, we might like it also in 3D. There were people angry on Ubi (or Fabrice) because they were promised a game that doesn't ask many computer resources, and apparently it won't be so (unless it was an April's Fool joke). I was the one trying to calm those down with different arguments. And so on.

It's just that when the news of only 6 towns in H5 stroke me, I wasn't able to handle it anymore. After the H4 half disappointment (as the other half was great, it's just that the low number of creatures & towns spoiled the fun of it) I wasn't doubting for not even a second that Ubi hadn't learned the lesson.

But if this is a forum where you are only allowed to say what a great game H5 will be, where users are not allowed to express their honest disappointment when it happens, I'm sorry I bothered and I promise I won't talk on the subject until more information about the total number of creatures in H5 will be reveald.

(I won't be surprised if this post is also removed...) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Quinea_Pig_King

04-07-2005, 08:28 AM

Nay to Desert town! Yay to Fortress! Yay to Ancient Forest!

Omega_Destroyer

04-07-2005, 08:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> Firstly, weâÂ´ve played with 3 brand new factions in H3, at least two of them very, very funny, and weâÂ´re going to lose them. I myself donâÂ´t like anybody taking my tender away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't get me wrong, I thought the Inferno and Fortress were interesting ideas and were fun to play for awhile, but the Conflux was just terrible. Furthermore, their novelty wore out fast and a lot of players turned to the other factions. It's better to have a few number of factions/towns that people will appreciate for their uniqueness, rather than having a lot of towns which will ultimately be disregarded for stronger ones.

Zamolxis108

04-07-2005, 09:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Quinea_Pig_King:
Nay to Desert town! Yay to Fortress! Yay to Ancient Forest! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What's wrong with the Desert town? It's the only terrain type that didn't have a specific town, and there are plenty of mythological creatures to fill it.

I second you with "Yay to Fortress!", but I'm a bit confused with the Ancient Forest. When I say ancient forest, I think of centaurs, unicorns, pegasi, dendroids, elves and so on, which is more or less the good old Rampart. Is this what you have in mind, but you want a diferent name, or it's smth else?

Real_King_Louis

04-07-2005, 09:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>But if this is a forum where you are only allowed to say what a great game H5 will be, where users are not allowed to express their honest disappointment when it happens, I'm sorry I bothered and I promise I won't talk on the subject until more information about the total number of creatures in H5 will be reveald.

_(I won't be surprised if this post is also removed...) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif_ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I edited your text but kept the essence of it, which was a discussions on the number of towns. We have no qualms about posters expressing their disapointment, we welcome them just as much as the postive comments. (As a matter of fact a few excessively positive comments with abuse of smileys that created noise and clutter were also removed, but let's carry on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Contrary to what you assume, we do not remove any trace of disagreements with what is currently available just to create a false sense of appreciation. It won't achieve any good and would be disrespectful of every fan's opinion. The current post you just did is positive in the sense of backing your disapointment with arguments. Those arguments can be agreed or diasgreed with but that is for the other fans to decide. My take was that your original post was not as well thought of as this one.

I thank you for your understanding of us trying to keep a board constructive and we welcome your opinion. Keep posting, young Jedi.

- Kingo -

Elor_Once_Dark

04-07-2005, 09:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Omega_Destroyer:
Don't get me wrong, I thought the Inferno and Fortress were interesting ideas and were fun to play for awhile, but the Conflux was just terrible. Furthermore, their novelty wore out fast and a lot of players turned to the other factions. It's better to have a few number of factions/towns that people will appreciate for their uniqueness, rather than having a lot of towns which will ultimately be disregarded for stronger ones. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure their novelty wears out that quickly. What's wrong with having a faction that, every once in a while, you use to go on a romp of utter devilry? Muhaha, the gates of Hell are open, and I will get you AAAAALLLLLLLLL!!!

And if the faction is weaker, doesn't that mean it's more of a challenge to pull off something?

Again, I think one's own preferences for certain factions are NOT a good ledger. The factions some like, others will dislike. Which is why it's good to have some diversity: More chance that a given person will like enough of the factions to entice him or her to buy the game

The-Filth

04-07-2005, 09:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Zamolxis108:
I second you with "Yay to Fortress!", but I'm a bit confused with the Ancient Forest. When I say ancient forest, I think of centaurs, unicorns, pegasi, dendroids, elves and so on, which is more or less the good old Rampart. Is this what you have in mind, but you want a diferent name, or it's smth else? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ancient Forest Is a town idea i posted on the Heroes Round Table. Town is as following:

Ancient Forest:
In the deepest realms of the dark forests, the trolls have been lurking for ages. In the shoadows of the trees and in the deep caves underground, a great anger towards humankind has been brewing. The eyes of the forest has now come out from hiding. Now it is time to feast! Now it is time to hunt! With this the age of trolls begin.

Heroclasses: Beastmaster and Witchmaster
Magic: (Pagan)Withcraft

Creatures :

lvl 1.
-Goblin
-Flock of Ravens

lvl 2.
-Gray Wolf. upg - Black Wolf
-Rampager

lvl 3.
-Orc Upg - Battle Orc.

lvl 4.
-Troll. upg - War Troll or Blade swinger.
-Witch

lvl 5.
-Dendroid. upg - Forest Guardian
-Lycanthrope

lvl 6.
-Cave Troll. upg - Elder
***

Also go take a look at it in the Round Table:
Ancient Forest (http://www.forumplanet.com/strategyplanet/homm/topic.asp?fid=5292&tid=1383338)

Also take a look at my full town line up to see what other towns I made:
my town suggestions (http://www.forumplanet.com/strategyplanet/homm/topic.asp?fid=5292&tid=1388472)

Zamolxis108

04-07-2005, 03:30 PM

I got more used with the idea of 6 towns. I think the only way of saving most of the old creatures, and also add new ones, would be mixing some alignments and also having the choice system.

We had that in H4 with Rampart + Conflux that gave Preserve, which (more or less) worked, so I guess we'll have that also in H5, and with Inferno + Necro, which didn't work, so, as we can see, it was separated.

Now. We know Inferno was separated from Necro. That makes two towns. I'm almost sure a Preserve type of town will also be there, that replaces Rampart & Conflux (with a higer chance for phoenix or fairy dragon as a top creature, so I guess we won't see the green/gold dragons again). But which other alignments will be mixed?

I came up with a possible combination Castle + Tower = the announced (more or less) Human Town:
Level 1: Choice between pikemen (upg. hallebardier) and halfling (or dwarf)
Level 2: Choice between archer (upg. marksman or crossbowman) and some golem (with upgrade)
Level 3: Choice between monk (upg. zealot) and magi (upg. arch magi or enchanter or wizard)
Level 4: Choice between crusader (upg. paladin) and cavailer (upg. champion)
Level 5: Choice between angel (upg. archangel) and giant (upg. titan)

What do you think? Is there a chance this might work? I really wish they can tell us more about the creature system, so we know where to look when we are imagining the new game.

The-Filth

04-07-2005, 04:14 PM

The Castle + Tower combo could work, so im not against the idea. But i guess other people will hate this as much as necro + inferno.
I imagine that the Warlcok/Chaos town will suffer the same fate if the developers actually do merge towns with each other. We have already seen the nightmare along with the Inferno creatures. And IMO it fits well. Maybe even the loved Black Dragon appears in the Inferno lineup? If the theme of the town is right, the black dragon just might fit in.
And I would imagine the other Chaos creatures ending up in other towns like a possible barbarian town and in the new town.

**Inferno (with former chaos creatures. Black Dragon?)
**Necropolis (pure necro)
**Castle (wizard creatures in the mix)
**Rampart/nature (maybe even some wizard creatures here?)
**Stronghold/barbarians (former chaos creatures in the mix)
**New Town (totally new creatures? former chaos creatures in the mix. Black dragon maybe?)

It all really comes down to what the New Town is like, and what kind of creature build system they use. Im hoping Chaotic build system, because I can imagine that many creatures can be used in that kind of system.
Also,IMO,if each town and the creatures of each town has their own theme and look, the merges of creatures would be more successfull.

bah...all this worrying is making me worry even more =( Why couldnt they just tell us the towns the first right away? bah...I guess I can wait a while longer =(

vladww

04-08-2005, 01:56 PM

Only 6 towns is a huge step backwards, whichever way you put it.

More town types !!

Zamolxis108

04-08-2005, 02:30 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by vladww:
Only 6 towns is a huge step backwards, whichever way you put it.

More town types !! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's true what you say. For me, taking the Fortress (Swamp town) out of Heroes (or almost any other), it's not like removing the Zulu from Civilization. It's more like removing the Orcs from Warcraft, or the Zerg from Starcraft. Those who don't know the games (at all, or not enough) of course don't care, and might very well appreciate a new Warcraft or Starcraft game without those (if those left are well balanced, and the game otherwise is challanging enough). The same with Heroes. Those who didn't play hundreds of scenarios and all the campaigns with the Fortress (I take this as an example, as it has the highest chance of being one of the sacrificed towns), didn't get the time to fall in love with the creatures, and discover all the secrets of the castle, that can make it even better and cooler than many of the others. There are a lot of H2 & H4 fans that say they have no problems giving up the Fortress Town, that we can have a perfect game without it, but they don't know what they are talking about (they just think they do, because they "met" the town, and know "what's it all about), while on the other hand we really do.

You know I played once Heroes II for a couple of weeks only to understand why some guy was insisting that the Warlock town there was much nicer, and had more personality than the Dungeon in Heroes III (I thought back then that H3 was a step ahead from all points of view). And in the end I started to realize that he actually had a point. I wasn't totally convinced, but I knew enough to be convinced he wasn't talking nonsense, and that I should respect his oppinion, because he might be actually right.

I don't see those that are calling our disappointment "bashing" or "whinning" (or whatever) doing the same with the Fortress (playing with it for weeks, to understand and fall in love with it like us).

The-Filth

04-08-2005, 03:45 PM

Yes Zamolxis, I understand what you mean. The Fortress town is as imortant to you as the Necropolis is to me, and I'd reallly hate it if Necropolis was left out. I also enoyed the Fortress town in Homm 3. I missed the Fortress town in Homm 4, but that wasnt what made me dislike the game the most. There vere other reasons for that, which I wont discuss here.

I would also like to see the Fortress town make a comeback in Homm 5, but for me other towns are more important. The Necropolis and Warlock town being at the top of the list.
Sadly, I believe we wont see the Fortress town come back as it vere in Homm 3, because it was already sacrificed in Homm 4. And i can live with that.

And sadly I believe the Warlock town might be lost in Homm 5, as well as The Wizard town.

I thought 6 towns in homm 6 was ok in theory. But practically seeing what the towns looked like, it wouldnt matter if that game had 4 or 9 towns. What makes you fall in love with a town(s) isnt all based on what town fits your playing style the best. A big part of what makes you fall in love with a town is (for me, at least) based on what the town looks and feels like esthetically. For me the towns has to be appealing to ones esthetic taste.
This is part of the reason I love the necromancer town from H2 and H3, and love the Warlock town in H2, as well as the reason I enjoy the Fortress town and warlock town in homm 3.

So considering what i stated above, 6 towns might be very good in Homm 5 as long as the developers are more innovative with each town.

I also fear that many creatures we like will be lost because of "only" 6 towns. But what creatures are lost really comes down to what the brand new town is like and what kind of creature system the game has.
The brand new town might have all new creatures never seen before in heroes, or it might have old creatures put togheter in a new way and maybe new creatures mixed in.
A chaotic creature build system would be going back to the roots of Homm 2 as well as being innovative. And it also gives room for many creatures to be used.
So lets hope the new town is absolutely awsome and that the creature system allows us to play with many of the creatures we fear might be lost. And lets hope the towns look really good so we can truly fall in love with them, as I did with necro in H2 and H3.

But of course. Even though I belive 6 towns might be good if they are made the proper way, I still would like more towns =) 9 towns I think would be great. And those 9 towns should of course be like my very own town lineup (http://www.forumplanet.com/strategyplanet/homm/topic.asp?fid=5292&tid=1388472) :

**Necropolis
**Infernal Palace
**Forsaken Tower
**Celestial Castle
**Elven Fortress
**Wizards Academy
**Ancient Forest/Keep
**Barbaric Stronghold
**Serpent Hive.

This is to me the ultimate lineup.