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sorrowman
08-02-2008, 08:23 AM
I recently got myself SH4 + U-Boat missions. Even though I used to play SH3 quite a bit back in the day it's been a long while since I last played this series so I'm not quite familiar with all the in's and out's of SH4 and U-Boat missions.

Therfore a small question regaring soundcontacts I keep getting while surfaced (during the navigantion tutorial in this particular case)

Basically...I keep getting sound-contacts while being surfaced. Even though it may come handy as such, it seemed a bit strange to me to get sound-contacts while being surfaced.

What's the deal here...is it historically accurate to get soundcontacts while being surfaced in a US sub, or am I looking at some kind of small bug here?

sorrowman
08-02-2008, 08:23 AM
I recently got myself SH4 + U-Boat missions. Even though I used to play SH3 quite a bit back in the day it's been a long while since I last played this series so I'm not quite familiar with all the in's and out's of SH4 and U-Boat missions.

Therfore a small question regaring soundcontacts I keep getting while surfaced (during the navigantion tutorial in this particular case)

Basically...I keep getting sound-contacts while being surfaced. Even though it may come handy as such, it seemed a bit strange to me to get sound-contacts while being surfaced.

What's the deal here...is it historically accurate to get soundcontacts while being surfaced in a US sub, or am I looking at some kind of small bug here?

dgrayson
08-05-2008, 07:16 AM
It is not historically accurate and in a sense it is a game bug. It becomes less of a problem once you have surface search radar. The reason it is happening is because of the way the game treats sensor information. The game can only keep track of one sensor at a time. There is a hierarchy the game uses. You always receive information from the "best" available sensor and information from the others disappears from the map. The hierarchy is visual, radar then sonar.

If you have radar, that will, in most cases, be your first contact. Radar trumps sonar so you only see the radar information. When the contact gets a little closer, turn off the radar and you should then get the contact on sonar. As soon as the contact is in visual range, the sonar and radar contacts disappear and you only have the visual information. If you are submerged, lower the periscope and you suddenly get that sonar information as there is no longer visual or radar sensor information.

Dave

RockinRobbins
08-08-2008, 07:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dgrayson:
It is not historically accurate and in a sense it is a game bug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, as much as I hate to disagree with Dave, this is probably the most misunderstood fallacy of SH4 "bugs." The WCA sonar was a supersonic listening gear that you see as the two bulbs extending beneath the forward torpedo room on the sub. These were still underwater on the surface, and still functioned. They often detected enemy ships in this configuration and by regulations the WCA sonar station always remained manned until the skipper released them.

I reference the Submarine Sonar Operator's Manual, Chapter 5, page 38. I quote below:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Securing WCA gear

When your submarine surfaces, you will continue searching. While it is running at a slow speed, you will be able to listen efficiently. But at higher speeds the noise becomes so great that you will have to report to the conning officer: "QB, listening conditions poor." Probably you will then be ordered to secure the gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Obviously, they EXPECTED to get contacts using sonar gear on the surface. The word "efficiently" implies that contacts were routinely developed in this configuration. I think that is a pretty clear indication that they did and we should efficiently and effectively use sonar on the surface in a fleet boat.

dgrayson
08-08-2008, 08:31 AM
Thank you Rockin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I stand corrected. Sometimes I get so wrapped up in how the sim works that I get a tad confused about how the real world operated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

I'd like to call it a "Senior Moment", but it is really just a bad case of the "*******".

No one is immune from from spouting nonsense every once in a while. The only fault is to take one's self too seriouly while doing it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dave

RockinRobbins
08-08-2008, 11:33 AM
Dave, in any discussion by SH4 modders and other wonks whose business it is to know, I find myself in a small minority that thinks as I do in the surface sonar question. The vast majority find some point that they feel justifies throwing the manual away as not a credible source.

So I do not accept your plea of a Senior moment or a case of "*******." You make good sense as the majority of "experts" believe. Based on what they have said in the past your statement was a very reasoned and plausible opinion.

But the truth is much more complex and more interesting than "experts'" denial that surface contacts are possible. As you brought out, our simulator has extreme sensor simplification that causes some of the most interesting aspects of operating the real submarines to be out of our reach.

Check out the link to the sonar manual and if you're as curious as I am you'll have a couple of hours of salivating and wishing you had access to all those filters, attenuators, different sonar heads, volume controls, etc. It makes me wonder what the next generation of sub simulators can bring our way. It will be incredible. The mine of World War II submarine simulation is far from depleted. The best is yet to come!