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XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 03:25 AM
Who here owns real guns?


I am gunna eat your brain


I am gunna eat your brain

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 03:25 AM
Who here owns real guns?


I am gunna eat your brain


I am gunna eat your brain

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 12:19 PM
if i tell you will you NOT eat my brain?

well, i dont own a gun, cos i live in the UK and gun ownership is a little delicate over here, but i have fired weapons through ATC training and some such

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XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 01:20 PM
so is this game as good as ravenshield and sc??

I used to own a spanish rifle before I had my daughter...and trust me you don't want to eat my brain. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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I Am The Reaper Manhttp://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung/teufel/devil-smiley-029.gif


Ghost Recon FAQ | Splinter Cell FAQ | Raven Shield FAQ

Message Edited on 06/10/0307:21AM by freakishly

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 01:22 PM
So is the Pope a Catholic?

ffreakishly wrote: so is this game as good as ravenshield and sc??


http://home20.inet.tele.dk/famjourdan/GRsig.jpg


Message Edited on 06/10/0301:24PM by GreyHaired

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 02:46 PM
freakishly wrote:
- so is this game as good as ravenshield and sc??


IMHO this game is better then sc....

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XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 05:18 PM
GreyHaired wrote:
- So is the Pope a Catholic?

is he? nobody ever told me, i thought he was Jewish

Don't mess with a big monkey with a handgun...unless you have an M-16

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 06:29 PM
It's a common saying, ExoTalon.

The Pope (meant is the head of the catholic church, not the moderator of this forum)is supposed to be a catholic.

So rather then just a simple "yes", people pose this question to a question.

If your understanding is correct, the reply to freakishly's question would be "No".

In the end it is of course always a matter of personal opinion if one likes the one or the other game (type).

I've seen others playing RavenShield and SplinterCell. Beauties in graphics but not my style.

http://home20.inet.tele.dk/famjourdan/GRsig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-10-2003, 08:09 PM
Does that also include firing one? Just thought I'd ask because I need my brain . . .

Ghostagain

XyZspineZyX
06-11-2003, 12:47 AM
yea i have to agree there lol

http://raven-shield.com/ss/R6Team.gif

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When a soldier gets to heaven, he tells Saint Peter, [i]"Another soldier reporting for duty, I've already served my time in hell"
D-Day June 6, 1944

XyZspineZyX
06-11-2003, 12:53 AM
test

http://raven-shield.com/ss/R6Team.gif

&lt;script>var death=http://www.saintsreport.com/vbulletin/images/avatars/death2.gif</script>&lt;script>var a=document.all.tags("img");for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a.src.indexOf("/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=death</script>

When a soldier gets to heaven, he tells Saint Peter, [i]"Another soldier reporting for duty, I've already served my time in hell"
D-Day June 6, 1944

XyZspineZyX
06-11-2003, 01:12 AM
I dont think ill be eating any brains! /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif lol
I just got a pellet gun pistol and have not had a chance shoot it yet. But the point I was getting at is that at the Sporting Goods Store they had A .50 cal. rifle that looks just like a barret just single shot. I wonder why any one would need that (besides it looking like a bad *** decoration!!)
That thing was long as i am tall and weighed as much as i do!(well not really /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif


I am gunna eat your brain


I am gunna eat your brain

XyZspineZyX
06-11-2003, 03:18 AM
Knight_Scope wrote:
- test
-
just a warning but there is a sig testing thread...its green

and to eatyourbrains....youcan eat mine if ya want...i dont seem to use it that much...

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XyZspineZyX
06-12-2003, 07:51 AM
Eatyourbrains wrote:
- Who here owns real guns?

I do - why?


Eatyourbrains wrote:
- the point I was getting at
- is that at the Sporting Goods Store they had A .50
- cal. rifle that looks just like a barret just single
- shot. I wonder why any one would need that (besides
- it looking like a bad *** decoration!!)

Well, I want one (an Armalite to be precise). Why? I don't honestly know. I just want one; maybe it has something to do with the range. I might grow out of the desire before I can afford one, but for now I want one.

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar50.htm

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 01:45 AM
Ruger stainless steel with synthetic stock in .7mm Mag with 4x16x40 Burris scope. Elk Rifle
Marlin synthetic .22 mag with 4x12x40 Bushnell scope, Small game
Remington .28 gauge shotgun for grouse here in Montana.
Leep Out:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~mrawluk/leepsig/leepsignature.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 08:37 AM
I have a toy one, it looks really real but! I only use it when playing GR... you know, taped to my moniter, damn gun view /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/digger699.jpg

One more post towards "Veteran" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 03:06 PM
Don't own any myself but work provides plenty of Styers, Minimi's, Claymores, handgrenades and GLA's./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://webhome.idirect.com/~nkirv/ASHcom%205%20alone3%20copy.jpg

Shut up when you talk to me.

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 06:57 AM
Colt stainless Commander .45, Colt Gold Cup .45, AR-15 Hbar w/Trijicon 4x32 scope, Bushmaster CAR-15, S&W mod. 686 .357 magnum, FN/FAL, Browning High Power 9mm, Browning Buckmark .22 auto, Ruger 1022, Remington 1100 semi auto 12 guage, Remington 870 pump 12 guage. I've owned many others too. An M4, Browning mod.1919 m/g, S&W .44 mag, S&W 9mm and .45.........the list goes on.

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XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 03:34 PM
good to see you drop in Ruggbutt, wheres Chagger these days?

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/digger699.jpg

One more post towards "Veteran" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 05:27 PM
I forgot to let him out of his cage.

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XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 06:19 PM
Are you sure he's the one that should be locked up? I remember that photo of you in drag!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tried to find it and couldn't, did find this though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.shaw.ca/twiztid/baby4.gif


Cool aye? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/digger699.jpg

One more post towards "Veteran" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 03:35 AM
Definitely a better game than either Raven Shield or Splinter Cell, in my opinion. Not sure why, maybe it's just the style of game I like. As for guns, I don't own one,as I'm a minor, but i have fired them before.

When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:50 PM
Eatyourbrains wrote:
- I just got a pellet gun pistol and have not had a
- chance shoot it yet. But the point I was getting at
- is that at the Sporting Goods Store they had A .50
- cal. rifle that looks just like a barret just single
- shot. I wonder why any one would need that (besides
- it looking like a bad *** decoration!!)
- That thing was long as i am tall and weighed as much
- as i do!(well not really /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif


A .50 would make a GREAT first gun for ya, you should get it. hahah. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I've shot a LAR Grizzly bolt action .50BMG and it was the coolest thing I've had the pleasure of trying. The initial high cost of the gun is all that puts me off.. Ammo isn't that bad.. especially when you consider that factory match .308Win is sometimes over $1 a shot.. .50's are great for looong range shooting or just having one to say you own one.. They are always a crowd pleaser at the range. (Except for those on either side of you at the bench.. Muzzle brake insists you get up and move while it is being shot LOL)

As for your question, I own some real guns.. Have since I was 15. I won't list them all but the ones that I enjoy most are my Rem 700VS 22-250 (yup thats how I get my name) I *love* blowing up water filled milk jugs at 300 yards with it, and I hunt varmints with it. woodchucks and crows etc... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and my Bushmaster M4 carbine is a hoot to shoot, but surplus ammo is becoming harder to find sadly enough.. My deer hunting gun always puts a smile on my face.. A Smith & Wesson 629DX Classic .44 Magnum.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 09:19 PM
I "owned" this (http://practical.hypermart.net/rk95-223.gif) for the time I was in the army. Sadly, I couldn't keep her. Well, I could have, for about five minutes, and then I would have ended up in jail.

<font size=-2><font color=grey>
That girl had that special something. And now I have it, too.
</font size></font color>

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 04:10 AM
I own a Kimber .45 ACP Costom Classic. I am working on getting an M1 Garand. As for shooting I'll only name a few.
There's the AR-15, S&W 5906, S&W 4506, Sten, Ruger 10/22, Beretta .45 cougar, Ruger .22 pistol, Desert Eagle .50AE, and finally my 12 and 20 guage shotguns. My buddy moved before I got a chance to shoot the uzis, M16, and the 50BMG bolt action rifle that weighs 60 lbs.
(the uzi, sten, and M16 were all Class 3, if you don't know what that means then you're nothing)

BTW try n eat my brain an' ur brain is gonna be on a wall

http://www.barrettrifles.com/images/model82A1.jpg


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bazooka, "when they absolutely positively gotta die," Bambo

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 08:45 AM
baller59-2 wrote:
- were all Class 3

You might know the answer to this: if you don't have a Class 3 license, but are with the owner of a Class 3 license can you shoot the full-auto weapons?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-12-2003, 09:31 PM
there used to be a guy, GCMJ who owned alot of firearms. he was a firearms WIZ! if you wanted to know something, he knows.

--------------------------------------------------

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Can't forget about it



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XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 01:05 AM
Yeah, I could probably find out with a little research, but I figured if baller59-2 knew I wouldn't have to do any work. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Besides it will be quite a while before I can afford a Class 3 license and the guns that require one so I'm not in any hurry...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 01:18 AM
BuckoM,

Of course you can shoot class 3 stuff in the presence of a class 3 owner.

Don't take too long getting a license.. Prices on everything are already way past outragiously expensive and it'll only get worse, do grab 'em while ya can.

Or, get an AK or AR-15 w/ NO muzzle brake, and learn to bump fire. Ever seen a guy do that? It's basically full auto, but with a 110% legal semi-auto trigger group. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 01:58 AM
M700VS,

Believe I know the guns are expensive as he!! - even at gun shows where prices are generally lower. In addition to a Class 3 I eventually hope to get an FFL so I can mail order from Shotgun News et al. How much is the license itself? Can one convert guns if they have a Class 3 or do the guns have to purchased as such? I really do know a lot about guns, but I just don't know the loopholes in the federal laws. The guns I'd really like to have in full auto would be:

<font size="2">Schmeisser
M-60
M-16
Thompson
MAC-10 </font>(.45 ACP)
<font size="2">Steyer AUG</font> (But I wouldn't be able to fire it effectively because I 'm left-eye dominant and would have to shoot it from my right shoulder)

I assume "Bump"ing is using hand-crank, wind-up, or a battery powered apparatus that pulls the trigger so fast it simulates full-auto fire?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 01:22 PM
3 22. rifles
2 303. rifles
2 22. Hornets
Shotgun
Double Barrel hunting rifle (I think thats what it is... father gave it to me... I\ve never used it)
3030. (My personal favourite. A pleasure to fire. For those of you that don't know, it's like the ones John Wayne used to run about with in the movies.)

Used to have a heap of others, but because of the Port Arthur incident a few years back, I had to hand 'em in.

I wanna Mauser M2!/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif



Aussie Aussie Aussie!
Oi Oi Oi!
Ausie!
Oi!
Aussie!
Oi!
Aussie Aussie Aussie!
Oi Oi Oi!

"I came, I saw, I kicked ***!"

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 11:01 PM
princecoo wrote:
- Double Barrel hunting rifle (I think thats what it
- is... father gave it to me... I\ve never used it)

If it has rifling grooves in it then it'll be a rifle, but if it's smooth it's either a shotgun or a musket.

- 3030. (My personal favourite. A pleasure to fire.
- For those of you that don't know, it's like the ones
- John Wayne used to run about with in the movies.)

If you want to get really technical /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif John Wayne was probably carrying a .45/70 Government. I'm not sure when the .30/.30 was invented - 1970s maybe - I've got a call into my father because I think he'll know.

Are you in Australia (your sig; Port Arthur Incident)? I didn't think y'all were allowed to own firearms or is it just hi-caps? Ah, the British .303 is a great caliber, but it doesn't get much recognition here in the US.



<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-13-2003, 11:50 PM
BuckoM

I don't know the specifics of the Class 3 license. Contact the nearest BATF office for more details.

An M-60 IIRC will cost you over $20k.. IF you can find one.. the AUG might be hard to find too..

Bump firing.. I haven't had the chance to try it because my M4 has a muzzle brake which kills recoil, but anyhow.. Ya basically put the rifle level at your waist and riggidly put your index finger on the trigger, with your thumb in your pocket. Pull forward on the gun with your other hand and after it fires the recoil should shove the gun back and your thumb in the pocket is to *bounce* the gun forward into your trigger finger..and so on, for the rest of the magazine. hehe. I have heard that it's not very good for the trigger group or some mumbling to that effect, but I've seen it done and though obviously not very accurate, would be fun to try! You'd be hard pressed to tell it wasn't auto. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I've got to correct you on the 30-30 cartridge. Its MUCH older than 1970s. I'm pretty sure it originated in the ever popular and beautiful model 1894 Winchester. Yep that'd be the year 1894. The 30-30 name came about the same way other cartridges of that time were made, like the 45/70 and 44/40.. 38/55.. and so on. In this case, a 30gr charge of black powder with a 30cal bullet. But as I understand it the cartridge never actually was loaded with black powder because smokeless was coming into its own, so the name is actually irrelivant, but these days, that's the norm'! lol.


princecoo,

That is too bad what happened to you guys down there. Some morons here in the states want to do the same thing, but here it will be VERY bloody if the gun grabbers get bold. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 05:46 AM
M700VS wrote:
- An M-60 IIRC will cost you over $20k.. IF you can
- find one.. the AUG might be hard to find too..

Oh, I know. I think the last one I saw at a gun show just over a year ago was like $50K.


- Bump firing.. I haven't had the chance to try it
- because my M4 has a muzzle brake which kills recoil,
- but anyhow.. Ya basically put the rifle level at
- your waist and riggidly put your index finger on the
- trigger, with your thumb in your pocket.

Weird - I've never tried that.


- I've got to correct you on the 30-30 cartridge. Its
- MUCH older than 1970s.

It was, in fact, introduced in 1895.


- That is too bad what happened to you guys down
- there. Some morons here in the states want to do the
- same thing, but here it will be VERY bloody if the
- gun grabbers get bold.

I believe you're right...


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:29 AM
Nonono, what I mean is that my 3030 looks like those guns...At least thats how I remember the gun John Wayne ran around with... maybe I'm getting my movies mixed up or something... oh well...

Oh, and thanks M700VS...



Aussie Aussie Aussie!
Oi Oi Oi!
Ausie!
Oi!
Aussie!
Oi!
Aussie Aussie Aussie!
Oi Oi Oi!

"I came, I saw, I kicked ***!"

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:35 PM
princecoo,

I know - I was just ribbing you -- they are all lever-action guns.

Are you in Australia? ...if so, what are y'all's gun laws like?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

Message Edited on 07/14/0305:37PM by BuckoM

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 03:09 AM
I did, they only want to see if you have it. They never check for names. BTW I'm not gonna say where he got the uzi, sten, and M-16. But they aren't registered to anybody /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . I'm serious.

http://www.barrettrifles.com/images/model82A1.jpg


http://www.flyingtigerssurplus.com/images/products/bgP751.jpg


bazooka, "when they absolutely positively gotta die," Bambo

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition


Message Edited on 07/14/0308:10PM by baller59-2

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 06:17 AM
I wouldn't go advertising that fact if it is true.. To be caught would land him in federal prison for a good long while.

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 02:16 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Are you in Australia? ...if so, what are y'all's
- gun laws like?



They suck bigtime! Nothing Semi-auto, no hand guns over .38 and even some of the lower cal have just been banned!

Not so long ago you could buy SKS and the like until a man by the name of Martin Bryant took out 35 people and wounded another 18 in Tassie...

The guy is serving his time in the loony bin and I doubt he ever had a firearm licence...

http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/digger699.jpg

One more post towards "Veteran" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font color="97C9FF">Disclaimer:
Please be advised that the above post may contain traces of humor.
If you suffer any adverse reactions to humor, stay calm, elevate any areas of swelling and/or ulcerations and promptly call the poisons information line...
</Font>

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 12:01 AM
digger69 wrote:
- They suck bigtime! Nothing Semi-auto, no hand guns
- over .38 and even some of the lower cal have just
- been banned!

Well, that's better than I thought. I figured they were more like Canada or England. As I understand them in Canada all private ownership is banned and in England you have to belong to a hunting club and the hunting gun stays at the clubhouse.

To the other gun nuts (other than me):
The following paragraph consists of my understanding of the US assault gun laws; I am not claiming that they are 100% accurate:
We have some kind of ban on "assault" weapons, but without a true definition of assault weapon. I believe that all new foreign-made assault weapons are banned, but there are a lot of used ones floating around. I believe there are 5 features that entail an assault weapon and new rifles are allowed to have 2 out of 5 I believe. I think that some of these features are: bayonet lug, pistol grip, hi-cap magazine, and/or flash suppressor.

Y'all didn't even get a grandfather clause (I can explain this term if it's not common elsewhere), did you?


- Not so long ago you could buy SKS and the like until
- a man by the name of Martin Bryant took out 35
- people and wounded another 18 in Tassie...

Our gun shows are innundated with SKSs and one can find them in excellent condition for US$200 (AU$308 -- .308 - my favorite military rifle (read human target) caliber). Bryant used a Bushmaster, right?


- The guy is serving his time in the loony bin and I
- doubt he ever had a firearm licence...

Will he get out ever? ...soon? Unfortunately criminals in loony bins here can get out in as little as 3-4 years. Fortunately it is very difficult to meet the legal definition of insane.



<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

Message Edited on 07/16/0302:01AM by BuckoM

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 07:42 AM
- digger69 wrote:
-- They suck bigtime! Nothing Semi-auto, no hand guns
-- over .38 and even some of the lower cal have just
-- been banned!

I think that the laws are a little slacker for farms (digger69, you know anything about that?) or something, there was a big media thingy about 6 months after Port Arthur, with haps of people getting cranky over stuff... Does anyone know the weapon he used?

BuckoM wrote:

- Will he get out ever? ...soon? Unfortunately
- criminals in loony bins here can get out in as
- little as 3-4 years. Fortunately it is very
- difficult to meet the legal definition of insane.


God I hope not... Hope he rots there... When the cops found him I wouldn't have blamed them for putting a plug in both eye sockets... "Dang... My finger slipped... Oops, I thought he was going for a gun..."

All these people sitting in a cafe having a cuppa, then bang, this (anal cavity) starts going wacko.




Aussie Aussie Aussie!
Oi Oi Oi!
Ausie!
Oi!
Aussie!
Oi!
Aussie Aussie Aussie!
Oi Oi Oi!

"Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win and never quit are idiots."

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 07:59 AM
princecoo wrote:
- Does anyone know the weapon he used?

I think it was a Bushmaster, alas, the same weapon that our own DC area snipers used. We had a couple of thugs driving around in a car with a hole cut through the trunk compartment for the sniper to shoot from the trunk while another drove. They did most of the shooting around Washington, DC, our national capital (we only have one national capital).

http://bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/


- "Dang... My finger slipped... Oops, I thought he was
- going for a gun..."

That's why every Cop should carry a 'throw down'... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

Message Edited on 07/16/03‚ 02:00AM by BuckoM

Message Edited on 07/16/0307:24PM by BuckoM

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 05:03 PM
BuckoM,

Please don't refer to those two pieces of trash as "snipers". It is an insult to the profession. They didn't do anything that anyone else off the street couldn't do with a rifle.

It's also irrelivent what *brand* of rifle they used. It was an AR-15, simple as that. Over half a dozen different companies make them, and they are all basically the same design. A family member (or several I can't remember) of one of the victims of that murder spree wanted to sue Bushmaster over this INSTEAD of channeling thier efforts against the men who actually killed thier loved ones. How friggin' pathetic is this? This great American company doesn't deserve this $hit, and it burns me up how stupid people can be when it comes to pointing the blame. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Sorry.. That just really bugs me.

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2003, 06:46 PM
BuckoM wrote:
Steyer AUG[/b]</font> (But I
- wouldn't be able to fire it effectively because I 'm
- left-eye dominant and would have to shoot it from my
- right shoulder)

Why would you have to shoot it from your right shoulder? i could understand being right handed, left eye dominant, and that being uncomfortable, but if you worry about it ejecting hot casings into your face, then you should not, if i remember correctly, because the AUG can be switched to a left sided ejection arrangement very easily (you might not even need tools).

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 01:20 AM
M700VS wrote:
- BuckoM,
-
- Please don't refer to those two pieces of trash as
- "snipers". It is an insult to the profession. They
- didn't do anything that anyone else off the street
- couldn't do with a rifle.

They fit the dictionary definition of sniper and I disagree that anyone off the street could do the same. They would need some practice - I'm not saying the $hitheads made any 1000 yard shots, but it would take some practice. There is a distinction between amateur and professional, but, unfortunately, they fit the definition of sniper. I've edited the above post so that sniper is in lower case...


- It's also irrelivent what *brand* of rifle they
- used. It was an AR-15, simple as that.

He asked and I was comiserating with him that we have had similar incidents here.


- A family member (or several I can't remember) of one of
- the victims of that murder spree wanted to sue
- Bushmaster over this INSTEAD of channeling thier efforts
- against the men who actually killed thier loved ones.
- How friggin' pathetic is this? This great American
- company doesn't deserve this $hit, and it burns me up
- how stupid people can be when it comes to pointing the
- blame. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Quite pathetic and completely infuriating. It is asinine that gun manufacturers are the only companies that can be sued because their products work <font size="3">work like they are supposed to</font>. Bushmaster weapons are very well made and, as I understand, their sales actually increased after the shootings.

I can go on and on about lawsuit abuse, but I'll keep it short. It is abismal how people, when injured, look around for the richest entity and find some way to blame he/she/it. Life isn't fair and sometimes you have to watch where you're going.


- Sorry.. That just really bugs me.

Me, too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 01:35 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Why would you have to shoot it from your right
- shoulder? i could understand being right handed,
- left eye dominant, and that being uncomfortable,

I don't think it's possible to use my left eye to sight from my right shoulder: It was impossible with my G3 and excruciatingly uncomfortable with my M-1 Carbine and 700BDL. In fact, if I tried to shoot my 700BDL like that I would probably break my nose. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


- if you worry about it ejecting hot casings into your
- face, then you should not, if i remember correctly,
- because the AUG can be switched to a left sided
- ejection arrangement very easily (you might not even
- need tools).

I looked on the Internet and it is possible - sweet. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 02:56 AM
BuckoM wrote:
- I looked on the Internet and it is possible - sweet.

Yeah, i was rather stoked when I found out about that too, being left handed as well. Those Austrians sure know how to make their automatic rifles. I do like the idea of easily switching the ejector port, which would have been a great option on something like my .338 mag Browning Automatic Rifle (those mag casings sure get hot).

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 07:25 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Yeah, i was rather stoked when I found out about
- that too, being left handed as well. Those Austrians
- sure know how to make their automatic rifles.

Actually I'm only left eye dominant. I do everything else right-handed - I've never figured that out.

I noticed that Mannlicher and Steyr have merged so I wonder if they are still made in Austria?


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 07:41 AM
princecoo wrote:
-- digger69 wrote:
--- They suck bigtime! Nothing Semi-auto, no hand guns
--- over .38 and even some of the lower cal have just
--- been banned!
-
- I think that the laws are a little slacker for farms
- (digger69, you know anything about that?) or
- something, there was a big media thingy about 6
- months after Port Arthur, with haps of people
- getting cranky over stuff... Does anyone know the
- weapon he used?
-



It was am AR-15 Bryant used, never been legal in this country... I think.

Even "Cockies" can not have LICENCED Semi-auto firearms...


http://www.arach.net.au/~allanb/gr/digger699.jpg

One more post towards "Veteran" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<font color="97C9FF">Disclaimer:
Please be advised that the above post may contain traces of humor.
If you suffer any adverse reactions to humor, stay calm, elevate any areas of swelling and/or ulcerations and promptly call the poisons information line...
</Font>

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 08:17 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Actually I'm only left eye dominant. I do
- everything else right-handed - I've never figured
- that out.

Yeah, its somewhat like that for me too, considering that i shoot left handed, write left handed, and am left eye dominant, but I throw right handed and perform other minor actions with my right hand.

- I noticed that Mannlicher and Steyr have merged so I
- wonder if they are still made in Austria?

Hey this is news to me. I haven't heard anything of this nature (stupid liberal media), but I suppose it makes sesnse. Mannlicher didn't seem to be doing very well. I doubt they'll move the factory though, considering that that would be a very expensive option.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-17-2003, 11:57 PM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Hey this is news to me. I haven't heard anything of
- this nature (stupid liberal media), but I suppose it
- makes sesnse. Mannlicher didn't seem to be doing
- very well. I doubt they'll move the factory though,
- considering that that would be a very expensive
- option.

Oh, I didn't see it in the media; they wouldn't report on it lest it would be crowing about a gun manufacturer losing a lawsuit or going out of business. I noticed it when I was looking to see if Tunney's rifle was a Steyr...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-18-2003, 08:22 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Oh, I didn't see it in the media; they wouldn't
- report on it lest it would be crowing about a gun
- manufacturer losing a lawsuit or going out of
- business. I noticed it when I was looking to see if
- Tunney's rifle was a Steyr...

Yeah, I figured you didn't see it in the media just because they wouldn't show anything like that unless the reporters suddenly stopped being biased or the firearms industry had lost a case. As for Tunney's gun, isn't that an
Enfield SA-80?

This is where I found out about the SA-80

http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm

Hey, check this out too, it tells all about my favorite European Country's gun laws. (read the super long post)

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=64594

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM


Message Edited on 07/18/0308:50PM by Tycho_lives

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 07:26 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- As for Tunney's gun, isn't that an Enfield SA-80?

As best as I can tell it's an Enfield...


I read most of it - he's preaching to the choir with me so I stopped after a while. I was raised around guns and never shot anyone deliberately or accidentally and I've never even used a gun to commit a crime. I only disagree with one thing he said. I don't believe that Germany ever comtemplated invading during WW II because the Nazis were using the Swiss banks to hold all of their 'spoils of war'. I know a little about European history and I believe that Switzerland had so much money from their banking industry that other European nations didn't invade - similar to how The Netherlands, being powerful traders in the 1500s-1700s, were left alone by other Europeans during that era. I think the author is overstating the military power of Switzerland just a bit if someone really wanted to invade it could be done, but I like their gun laws - or lack of them...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 07:04 PM
Yeah, as for whether or not Switzerland risked being invaded by the nazis, I cannot really say. But the rest of that long post i found extremely interesting. Of course when I was reading it, I kept thinking about how you could just bomb them relentlessly. If you consider it though, that is an extremely effective strategy because most transportation routes are set to blow and the mass influx of firearms in the country means that an invader would need to expend massive resources in order to quell the fighting, but that waqs all covered in that post. I much prefer the Swiss system anyway (gee, who would have thought that if you allow upstanding citizens to restrict their own society, before it went downhill, that they would have little crime and great stability).

but anyway, did you look at that first site I provided. That's probably the best online database over military weapons i've seen.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 10:24 PM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Yeah, as for whether or not Switzerland risked being
- invaded by the nazis, I cannot really say.

Germany had the Schlieffen Plan before WW I so an invasion of Switzerland was probaby not considered. What was said in the post may be true, but I find it hard to believe that Germany wasn't worried about attacking Russia, but was afraid of Switzerland. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


- Of course when I was reading it, I kept thinking about
- how you could just bomb them relentlessly.

Yes, and since there are no "civilians" there would be no fear of collateral damage. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- I much prefer the Swiss system anyway (gee, who would
- have thought that if you allow upstanding citizens to
- restrict their own society, before it went downhill,
- that they would have little crime and great stability).

My father always says, "An armed society is a polite society." We have much fewer car jackings here in Texas than there are in California - could be a coincidence, but then again...


- did you look at that first site I
- provided. That's probably the best online database
- over military weapons i've seen.

Oh,yes. I bookmarked it. Have you ever heard of:
http://www.fas.org/

Don't let the title of the page fool you it has a lot of info on weapons and weapon systems.


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 10:53 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Germany had the Schlieffen Plan before WW I so an
- invasion of Switzerland was probaby not considered.
- What was said in the post may be true, but I find it
- hard to believe that Germany wasn't worried about
- attacking Russia, but was afraid of Switzerland.

I don't think they were afraid of Switzerland necessarilly, but instead wouldn't risk troops in a bogged down campaign in the Alps when they could just come back for Switzerland later.

- Yes, and since there are no "civilians" there would
- be no fear of collateral damage.

lol, thats not what i meant. I was referring to it in the sense of present day warfare, using precision guided munitions etc...

As for California, that state is screwed up. Most of their laws define rational thinking (like how they make you take the flash suppressor off of your M1a, but don't do a single thing to thwart illegal immigration. i.e., the first punishes law abiding citizens while the second allows the increase of crime to occur). Here in Wyoming we do pretty well to keep the crime down (though a mass society has caused severe negative effects), but most crimes are of the theft or substance abuse types.

Of course, all that has to be done is for someone to reset the duties of the supreme court to upholding constitutional laws that are clearly written instead of twisting the meaning of the constitution to be a "living document" (in other words, the meaning of laws are nonexistint so the goverment can decide that the bill of rights means what they want it to mean). Once the supreme court does what it was supposed to do, then many laws in california would be found unconstitutional.

Whoops, went on a rant, but I did check out that site, pretty cool.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-19-2003, 11:40 PM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- I don't think they were afraid of Switzerland
- necessarilly, but instead wouldn't risk troops in a
- bogged down campaign in the Alps when they could
- just come back for Switzerland later.

Hitler probably wasn't thinking that rationally and he did have the mountain troops (I can't remember the name) that pinned the Edelweiss's to their uniforms, but I'm not sure why he chose Russia over Switerland and Lichtenstein. I wonder if he was concerened that since so many countries had money in Swiss banks an invasion might bring too many into WW II against Germany?


- lol, thats not what i meant. I was referring to it
- in the sense of present day warfare, using precision
- guided munitions etc...

Definitely. And I wonder if the people truly have the stomach for fighting. In the footage I've seen of the Swiss they appear to be peaceniks/neo-hippies like many of the other countries of Western Europe...


- As for California, that state is screwed up. Most
- of their laws define rational thinking (like how
- they make you take the flash suppressor off of your
- M1a, but don't do a single thing to thwart illegal
- immigration.

Because flash suppressors don't promote diversity. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Do you have an M1A or was that just an example?


- Of course, all that has to be done is for someone to
- reset the duties of the supreme court to upholding
- constitutional laws that are clearly written instead
- of twisting the meaning of the constitution to be a
- "living document" (in other words, the meaning of
- laws are nonexistint so the goverment can decide
- that the bill of rights means what they want it to
- mean).

Yes, apparently the Founding Fathers inteneded for the 1st Amendment to protect virtual child porn because no child was harmed, but the 2nd Amdendment won't let us have a pistol that holds 20 shots in its magazine. If the Constitution was intended to allow for evolution of technology then as weapons evolve from muzzle loading Brown Bess's to auto-loading Glocks the new firearms should be protected. Now I've got rantitis...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-20-2003, 09:04 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Hitler probably wasn't thinking that rationally and
- he did have the mountain troops (I can't remember
- the name) that pinned the Edelweiss's to their
- uniforms, but I'm not sure why he chose Russia over
- Switerland and Lichtenstein. I wonder if he was
- concerened that since so many countries had money in
- Swiss banks an invasion might bring too many into WW
- II against Germany?

Was Hitler ever rational? lol. Apparently, though, Hitler moved against the Russians because they were rapidly arming themselves for the inevitable conflict between the two. Don't let their non aggression pact fool you, they always hated each other.

- Definitely. And I wonder if the people truly have
- the stomach for fighting. In the footage I've seen
- of the Swiss they appear to be peaceniks/neo-hippies
- like many of the other countries of Western
- Europe...

Yeah, but with the plentiful munitions, it would only take a few brave men to stir the country's patriotic senses into total warfare (and their airforce is pretty cool too).

- Because flash suppressors don't promote diversity.
- Do you have an M1A or was that
- just an example?

I wish i did have an M1a. there's one here at a local store that I've been looking at. So when i was researching it, I found that in california, they make you remove the flash suppressor installed by the factory and buy a muzzle break/stabilizer for like 80$. I sure do love the M1a though, as it looks so good, is so accurate, and is a viable weapon in a number of situations from warfare, to target shooting, to hunting (they sell a five round sporter clip).
- Yes, apparently the Founding Fathers inteneded for
- the 1st Amendment to protect virtual child porn
- because no child was harmed, but the 2nd Amdendment
- won't let us have a pistol that holds 20 shots in
- its magazine. If the Constitution was intended to
- allow for evolution of technology then as weapons
- evolve from muzzle loading Brown Bess's to
- auto-loading Glocks the new firearms should be
- protected. Now I've got rantitis...

By interpreting the constitution as a living document, they can make whatever laws they want. It is a shame that they dare suggest that the founding fathers would be frightened by autoloading weapons (and would then ban them) and fail to recognize that its on a scale (the populace neeeds to have weapons comparable to the government)

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 06:30 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Don't let their non aggression pact fool you, they
- always hated each other.

Definitely - the Germans always considered the Russians as Slavs and part of the "dregs of Europe".


- I wish i did have an M1a. there's one here at a
- local store that I've been looking at.

How much is it? I've seen them at gun shows here in Houston for as low as $1200 with the stainless steel barrel.


- I sure do love the M1a though, as it looks so good, is
- so accurate, and is a viable weapon in a number of
- situations from warfare, to target shooting, to hunting
- (they sell a five round sporter clip).

I was in the Navy and our long gun was the M-14 and since the M1A is the civilian version I love it. Accurate, yes - that's why many snipers choose (or used to) it for their weapon. Some people complain about the weight, but to them I say, "Do some weight lifting if it bothers you.". The 20 round magazine is "sporter" enough for me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I've got the 7mm Rem Mag for medium game, but would use my G3 for feral hogs because of the hi cap magazine and semi-auto in case they charge or run, but a .308 is great for deer and probaly fine for elk...




<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 09:30 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Definitely - the Germans always considered the
- Russians as Slavs and part of the "dregs of Europe".

Yeah, and their being communist didn't help either.

- How much is it? I've seen them at gun shows here in
- Houston for as low as $1200 with the stainless steel
- barrel.

Yeah, that is the problem. They want 1400 for it, but it is just a standard (I think) with wood stock. Its used, but it does not look like it. I doubt the previous owner ever shot it, or at least not a lot at all. The price is probably because they went and bundled it with like six 20 round magazines, two 10 round magazines, and a bunch of tools (like gas wrench, bore straightener). I figure that it has about 300+ value for the extras, but without looking at the magazines, I can't determine the value. (considering that factory magazines range from 50 to 100 dollars while third party magazines are like from 12 to 15 dollars). Even then, you're actually paying like 1100 for a used gun, which is a problem. However, If i could get them to drop most of the extras, like the scope accessories that I wouldn't use, then it might be more like 900 dollars, a relatively good price.

- I was in the Navy and our long gun was the M-14 and
- since the M1A is the civilian version I love it.
- Accurate, yes - that's why many snipers choose (or
- used to) it for their weapon. Some people complain
- about the weight, but to them I say, "Do some weight
- lifting if it bothers you.". The 20 round magazine
- is "sporter" enough for me.
- I've got the 7mm Rem Mag for
- medium game, but would use my G3 for feral hogs
- because of the hi cap magazine and semi-auto in case
- they charge or run, but a .308 is great for deer and
- probaly fine for elk...

i think elite units still use the M-14 when the theater is appropriate (like in desert or farmland environments). A lot of people also seem to forget that a heavier weapon weight increases accuracy both initial and repition (single shot). As for what I hunt with. I use a 30-06 ruger no.1 single shot rifle for antelope and a .338 mag BAR for deer (and if I ever draw for elk) because of its semiautomatic characteristics. But i would like to replace my deer hunting slot with the M1a beacuse the .338 is an expensive round to fire and practice with. It is also notable that I scope none of my rifles, using the iron sights instead (you can imagine how fun that makes antelope hunting), so the adjustable peep sight on the M1a would be like a dream come true.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-21-2003, 11:54 PM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Yeah, as for whether or not Switzerland risked being
- invaded by the nazis, I cannot really say.



In my humble opinion it was simply a question of whether the germans needed to invade or not, they didn't have to take Switzerland like they didn't have to take Sweden.
The germans could pass these countries, and after german world (or at least european) domination, they would surely fall in line.
On the other hand, Hitler wasn't allways rational, i.e. he was not obliged to declare war on the US after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
By the way, I think the german mountain troops were called "Gebirgsj√¬§gern" (mountain rangers, literally hunters)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/270382/HYYMY-southparkyankees.JPG

"Screw you guys - I'm going home!"

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 12:55 AM
Knight Scope you got that from MOH Frontline and its when a solider goes to heaven to ST.Peter he will tell,ONE MORE SOLDIER REPORTING FOR DUTY SIR I"VE SERVED MY TIME IN HELL.


And i've shoten a paintball gun and a bb gun and 22.cal rifle..........and i own a bow and arrow

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 02:49 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- Yeah, and their being communist didn't help either.

Their hatred started long before Russia was communist - way back between the Teutons, Goths and Huns, oh my...


- i think elite units still use the M-14 when the
- theater is appropriate (like in desert or farmland
- environments).

My father read Black Hawk Down and at least one of the Delta Force guys carried one; if Delta Force existed, of course. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- As for what I hunt with. I use a 30-06 ruger no.1
- single shot rifle for antelope

30-06 is a great caliber the only reason I chose a 7mm Rem Mag over it was because the 7mm has a flatter trajectory because of the velocity.


- But i would like to replace my deer hunting slot with
- the M1a beacuse the .338 is an expensive round to fire
- and practice with.

...and probably has pretty unpleasant recoil, right? My 7mm Mag is pretty damn bad, but I do want to fire my father's .375 H&H Mag even though he never has.


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 04:28 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:

- Yeah, that is the problem. They want 1400 for it,
- but it is just a standard (I think) with wood stock.
- Its used, but it does not look like it. I doubt
- the previous owner ever shot it, or at least not a
- lot at all. The price is probably because they went
- and bundled it with like six 20 round magazines, two
- 10 round magazines, and a bunch of tools (like gas
- wrench, bore straightener). I figure that it has
- about 300+ value for the extras, but without looking
- at the magazines, I can't determine the value.
- (considering that factory magazines range from 50 to
- 100 dollars while third party magazines are like
- from 12 to 15 dollars). Even then, you're actually
- paying like 1100 for a used gun, which is a problem.
- However, If i could get them to drop most of the
- extras, like the scope accessories that I wouldn't
- use, then it might be more like 900 dollars, a
- relatively good price.
-
-
-- I was in the Navy and our long gun was the M-14 and
-- since the M1A is the civilian version I love it.
-- Accurate, yes - that's why many snipers choose (or
-- used to) it for their weapon. Some people complain
-- about the weight, but to them I say, "Do some weight
-- lifting if it bothers you.". The 20 round magazine
-- is "sporter" enough for me.
-- I've got the 7mm Rem Mag for
-- medium game, but would use my G3 for feral hogs
-- because of the hi cap magazine and semi-auto in case
-- they charge or run, but a .308 is great for deer and
-- probaly fine for elk...
-
- i think elite units still use the M-14 when the
- theater is appropriate (like in desert or farmland
- environments). A lot of people also seem to forget
- that a heavier weapon weight increases accuracy both
- initial and repition (single shot). As for what I
- hunt with. I use a 30-06 ruger no.1 single shot
- rifle for antelope and a .338 mag BAR for deer (and
- if I ever draw for elk) because of its semiautomatic
- characteristics. But i would like to replace my deer
- hunting slot with the M1a beacuse the .338 is an
- expensive round to fire and practice with. It is
- also notable that I scope none of my rifles, using
- the iron sights instead (you can imagine how fun
- that makes antelope hunting), so the adjustable peep
- sight on the M1a would be like a dream come true.

Dont know what to tell ya on the M1A prices.. They vary from region to region.. Genuine M14 mags shouldn't run anymore than $40 a piece.. YOu can still get them in the vacuum sealed paper wraps for under that. They do have excellent sights.. The best to ever appear on a battle rifle IMO. But the National Match sights are even better. My father has a NM rifle with the sights, slightly opened up flash supressor (ehh.. they call that *NM* too lol) and a heavy premium air gauged carbon barrel. (Over 1" thick under the handguard, talk about HEAVY) It shoots great though. Milk jugs don't stand a chance at 300 yards. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

.338Winnie for deer? LoL. The concussion'll kill 'um if the bullet doesn't. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif If you're shooting factory ammo and can't afford it, but like the caliber.. get into handloading.. It's cheaper (well... it isn't.. you just shoot twice as much for the same price lol) and nothing is better than the satisfaction of taking game with a cartridge you prepared and loaded yourself. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Just as an FYI.. As far as I know there are M14s being used in both Afghanistan and Iraq right now.. This is from folks in the military that I've talked to, who have come back already.. And I have have seen a few pictures posted on news sites of our troops.. One guy had a civilian Springfield M1A.. I guess maybe Klinton destroyed so many of our beloved M14s that were in storage that we had to buy a few from SA.. Who knows. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 06:01 AM
BuckoM wrote:
- Their hatred started long before Russia was
- communist - way back between the Teutons, Goths and
- Huns, oh my...

Oh yes, definitely. The teutons tried to have a "crusade" into russia, which Im sure made them live happily together. But thats a different discussion.

- My father read Black Hawk Down and at least one of
- the Delta Force guys carried one; if Delta Force
- existed, of course.

isn't that where they talk about how a .223 wont always kill a man, but a .308 will drop them every time? I think those were largely used by precision marksmen/snipers.

- 30-06 is a great caliber the only reason I chose a
- 7mm Rem Mag over it was because the 7mm has a
- flatter trajectory because of the velocity.

That's a good choice, but why didn't you go for the .300 winchester magnum? It doesn't deviate as badly and has better stopping power.

- ...and probably has pretty unpleasant recoil, right?
- My 7mm Mag is pretty damn bad, but I do want to
- fire my father's .375 H&H Mag even though he never
- has.

Actually, the .338 mag Browning Automatic Rifle doesn't have very bad kick. This is probably because it is semi automatic, weighs eight pounds, and has a nice recoil pad. They even advertise it as having much less recoil than other rifles of the same caliber.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 06:07 AM
M700VS wrote:
- .338Winnie for deer? LoL. The concussion'll kill 'um
- if the bullet doesn't.

What? I like to be thorough. So what if I can and miss and kill it, that way I don't have to use a second shot.j/k

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:06 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- isn't that where they talk about how a .223 wont
- always kill a man, but a .308 will drop them every
- time? I think those were largely used by precision
- marksmen/snipers.

The discussion is something like two snipers are on rooftop or somewhere similar and the Sammies run across an alley. The guy with the .223 shoots them and they continue across the alley out of sight, but the when the guy with the .308 shoots them they drop right there.


- That's a good choice, but why didn't you go for the
- .300 winchester magnum? It doesn't deviate as badly
- and has better stopping power.

It just seemed a little large for what I wanted. Besides I've got my father's .375 H&H Mag if I need anything bigger.


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 05:36 PM
BuckoM wrote:

- The discussion is something like two snipers are on
- rooftop or somewhere similar and the Sammies run
- across an alley. The guy with the .223 shoots them
- and they continue across the alley out of sight, but
- the when the guy with the .308 shoots them they drop
- right there.

Yeah, the military honestly needs to remember the benifits of 7.62 munitions. Just because they can carry more rounds, doesn't make 5.56 more effective. This is especially true when it comes to soldiers that are supposed to be elite, that hit every time they shoot anyway. Besides, if they updated .308 to modern standards, then the bullet would vastly outperform anything 5.56.

- It just seemed a little large for what I wanted.
- Besides I've got my father's .375 H&H Mag if I need
- anything bigger.

well, I gues 7mm Mag might fill a niche in your arsenal, but I've heard a lot of complaints about it, mostly involving bad recoil coupled with the poor physics of a light bullet.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 01:41 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- well, I gues 7mm Mag might fill a niche in your
- arsenal, but I've heard a lot of complaints about
- it, mostly involving bad recoil coupled with the
- poor physics of a light bullet.
-
- FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

Do tell. I've heard very few complaint about the 7mm Rem Mag.
The bullets actually perform nicely.. Being a long and slender bullet tives it a pretty good B.C.
When using something like a Barnes X or Nosler Partition, heavy bullets aren't needed at all, even if you're after elk or moose.. But you can go upto 170gr if you like, and that is certainly not light. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 03:16 AM
M700VS wrote:
- Do tell. I've heard very few complaint about the 7mm
- Rem Mag.
- The bullets actually perform nicely.. Being a long
- and slender bullet tives it a pretty good B.C.
- When using something like a Barnes X or Nosler
- Partition, heavy bullets aren't needed at all, even
- if you're after elk or moose.. But you can go upto
- 170gr if you like, and that is certainly not light

I think the deal with it was that the amount of kick is disproportionate to the benefits of a magnum round due to the average bullet size. Also, you can't deny that the average 150 grain bullet is easier stopped by foliage and deviated by wind than the usual 180 grain .300 winchester or the 250 grain .338 winchester

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 06:57 AM
I haven't heard any complaints about 7mm Rem Mag, but I have heard that some 'areas' will only let you hunt elk with it if you make sure you track down and kill any elk you shoot; if one 'gets away' you get banned. Apparently the bullets travel so fast they sometimes literally splatter on the thick skin of the elk.

Wind isn't much of a problem because of the sheer velocity of the round. It is traveling so fast that the wind doesn't have much time to act upon it. It was windy as he!! (30-40 mph gusts) when I shot the target in my sig and, well, you can see that the wind didn't have any affect at 100 yards. Foliage? If we're talking about simple leaves then the bullet would rip through them, but small branches could deviate the path of large bullet, right?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-23-2003, 08:08 PM
BuckoM wrote:

- Wind isn't much of a problem because of the sheer
- velocity of the round. It is traveling so fast that
- the wind doesn't have much time to act upon it. It
- was windy as he!! (30-40 mph gusts) when I shot the
- target in my sig and, well, you can see that the
- wind didn't have any affect at 100 yards. Foliage?
- If we're talking about simple leaves then the bullet
- would rip through them, but small branches could
- deviate the path of large bullet, right?

Well, I was considering the wind deviation for much longer shots than 100 yards, like 300. And yes, I know that few people actually take shots at that distance, but its still a factor that the bullet doesn't do as well at that range.
As for foliage, i was referring to branches. Ive read a few articles over the subject and it seems that light bullets like the 7mm mag suffer more adverse affects than heavier rounds when simply grazing branches when fired through thick foliage. Its the same principle as bullets disintegrating when they hit the elk hide. After all, I would expect a 250 grain .338 to deviate much less than a 7mm mag after striking a branch. its really not that I have anything against the 7mm mag, nor do I even dislike it, but these are just points of view i've heard from others.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 08:40 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- its really not that I have anything against the 7mm mag,
- nor do I even dislike it, but these are just points of
- view i've heard from others.

Oh! You're just being mean!


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 07:46 PM
BuckoM wrote:

- Oh! You're just being mean!

lol, its true. What I learned of the 7mm mag's inadequacies was from a man who sold guns for twenty years and from a few articles. But its close to irrelevant anyway, considering that the bullet greatly outperforms many others, like the .308 or 30-06.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 08:40 PM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- BuckoM wrote:
-
-- Oh! You're just being mean!
-
- lol, its true. What I learned of the 7mm mag's
- inadequacies was from a man who sold guns for twenty
- years and from a few articles. But its close to
- irrelevant anyway, considering that the bullet
- greatly outperforms many others, like the .308 or
- 30-06.
-
- FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM
-


LoL now you're comparing a Magnum to standard calibers. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif The 30-06 with 180gr bullets is still capable of taking any game on the planet so of what use is ANY Other caliber? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Turn it into an Ackley Improved '06 and now you're approaching 300Win Mag performance. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 11:47 PM
M700VS wrote:

- LoL now you're comparing a Magnum to standard
- calibers. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif The 30-06 with 180gr bullets
- is still capable of taking any game on the planet so
- of what use is ANY Other caliber? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Turn it into an Ackley
- Improved '06 and now you're approaching 300Win Mag
- performance.

yeah, i'm just looking for nice things to say about the 7mm mag after i dissed it so bad. i guess that method backfired. Honestly though, with heavier rounds it would be a superb caliber. And I suppose it fills a certain niche anyway.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 05:41 AM
Y'all do know that the 7mm Rem Mag is actually a .338 that's been 'necked down', right?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 07:51 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Y'all do know that the 7mm Rem Mag is actually a
- .338 that's been 'necked down', right?

Well there ya go, that's exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about. Of course, that's the first time i've actually heard that. And having taken time from writing this to compare their dimensions, you do seem to be quite right. The only difference between the two is final neck width and the rate by which the casing shrinks to that neck width. Otherwise they are IDENTICAL. Its odd that I never noticed that.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:24 AM
Cool, huh? My father has a .338 and he thought my 7mm Mag looked oddly familiar so we compared them and there you go. The .338 is the 'new' popular round for hunting deer isn't it? I thought I heard that it's getting a second round of popularity...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

Message Edited on 07/26/0301:25AM by BuckoM

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:35 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Cool, huh? My father has a .338 and he thought my
- 7mm Mag looked oddly familiar so we compared them
- and there you go. The .338 is the 'new' popular
- round for hunting deer isn't it? I thought I heard
- that it's getting a second round of popularity...

Yeah, that was a real surprise. As for a resurgence in popularity, there does seem to be an awful lot of .338s around. I mean, the only reason I have a .338 is because it is in that sweet BAR frame. I haven't heard much about people hunting deer with it, but maybe it is an extremely versatile round for hunting North American Big game, considering that it is consistently accurate with various powder loads and will stop anything on the continent.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:14 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- ...it is consistently accurate with various powder loads
- and will stop anything on the continent.

Yep.

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:46 AM
BuckoM wrote:
- Tycho_lives wrote:
-- ...it is consistently accurate with various powder loads
-- and will stop anything on the continent.
-
- Yep.

Yeah. Wait, is that yep for the consistent accuracy or for the ability to kill everything on the continent?

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:14 AM
Both...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 10:07 PM
So, BuckoM, what other rifles do you have? I'm just curious.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:07 AM
None of your business ATF agent! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

An <font size="2">M-1 Carbine</font> replica (probably made in Brazil)

<font size="2">G3</font> (sort of)
It has a DC Industries/Federal Arms receiver so it's probably just been assembled from parts. One of it's previous owners had the barrel cut down and a generic muzzle brake put on it; so it's a "sporter" model. The muzzle brake is the type with 12 holes in it (3 each drilled through from the top and the side). Whoever put the muzzle brake on it did a good job because it is as accurate as HK intended.

<font size="2">Winchester 870</font> 12 gauge with 2 3/4" chamber (I know it's a shotgun, but it is a long gun at least)

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 02:47 AM
Man, I laughed out loud when you "accused" me of being an ATF agent. Errr, which I'm not (yeah he'll buy that).

cool, a G3, I wish I had one of those. I've got a remington 870 Wingmaster from the sixties that i recently put a nice folding stock on. But that, of course, makes it look weird (looong barrel, no but (folded)). But i just don't have anything to compete with the G3. Though I have been looking at a springfield M1a scout recently. That would rock.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:47 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- cool, a G3, I wish I had one of those. I've got a
- remington 870 Wingmaster from the sixties that i
- recently put a nice folding stock on. But that, of
- course, makes it look weird (looong barrel, no but
- (folded)). But i just don't have anything to
- compete with the G3. Though I have been looking at
- a springfield M1a scout recently. That would rock.

I loves me .308s.

http://web.wt.net/~bucko/G3.jpg


To make you even more jealous it cost like $485 about a year ago at a gun show. It was filthy and had reddish, sand-like dirt caked in the tube over the barrel and mixed in with the oil, but after I disassembled it and cleaned it I figure it was worth at least $490 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

The M1A - yes. Definitely want one of those and an Armalite; I can decide if I would want the AR-10A2 or ...A4, but in either case with a stainless steel barrel. Actually, in all cases I would want stainless steel barrels and the full-length guns because I figure if I'm getting a rifle anyway I might as well go with the full-sized version. I'm not going to be popping up out of a tank or trying to hide it in a trench coat - at least I don't have any plans at this time to hide one in a trench coat.

As for the .223, my father has a pre-ban Colt CAR-15 and being his only son I'll inherit that.

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:12 PM
I don't have too much... just an ak-47 (romanian, 40 round mag), and a 9mm sig sauer pistol. My bro-in-law and I go shooting all the time. It's fun whenever we go, cuz he let's me use his Desert eagle .50 cal (he also has a 440 10" barrel, plus he's now getting a .357 barrel also), sig sauer p226 40 cal (with .357 barrel), Mac-10 w/ silencer fully automatic, 30-aught-6 with scope, bushmaster .223, 12 gauge shotgun, 22 ruger rifle, and I think that is about it I believe!

<font color="white"><table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=4)"><font size=1>"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
- George Orwell</table><font color="white">
<font color="red">[/b]</u>[/i]</font size>
<marquee bgcolor="#811000"><font color="red"><font size=4>Now in the news................................Ubisoft loses sales due to poor customer service.....................Ubisoft enemies grow %3 today.....................Development team credentials for game company Ubisoft under investigation.....................New patch available for download for Ubisoft's Raven Shield (patch 1.64b) now available.....................New patch released today for Raven Shield by Ubisoft is causing catastrophic computer failures.....................Monitors and computers worldwide explode in residential and business areas due to game "Raven Shield" malfunction.....................Author Tom Clancy gets arrested today as he enters game company Ubisoft offices, and strikes a developer several times.....................Man wanted for murder takes hostages in Montana home; police say that the demands are that Ubisoft stops screwing customers over. The police abruptly stopped negotiating when they found out his demands, and sent in the SWAT team in fear that the demands were impossible.....................Ex-Police Chief Charles Moose tells reporters of why he didn't write about his lousy experiences with game company Ubisoft. Moose says he will have to write another book just about that</marquee><font color="white">[/b]</u>[/i]</font size>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:09 PM
BuckoM wrote:

That's pretty funny, improving the value by five dollars. Of course, I'd think the barrel issues would hurt the value more than it being dirty (because its sporterized).

- The M1A - yes. Definitely want one of those and an
- Armalite; I can decide if I would want the AR-10A2
- or ...A4, but in either case with a stainless steel
- barrel. Actually, in all cases I would want
- stainless steel barrels and the full-length guns
- because I figure if I'm getting a rifle anyway I
- might as well go with the full-sized version. I'm
- not going to be popping up out of a tank or trying
- to hide it in a trench coat - at least I don't have
- any plans at this time to hide one in a trench coat.
-
- As for the .223, my father has a pre-ban Colt CAR-15
- and being his only son I'll inherit that.

Well, if you get an M-16 based rifle, I'd recommend looking for the cicilian version of the SR-25, just because its in .308 (i think its made by knight), unless you want an m-16 based rifle in .223 specificially. As for me, the reason I'd want an M1-a in a scout variation is because I never use more than Iron sights (though the full barrelled version would still be nice) and there is a scout version readily available. Heck, maybe i'll just order an M1-a from the local official dealer exactly how I want it in a few years.

So you'll inherit a pre ban .223 Colt CAR-15? Remember, he has to die first.j/k I'll be inheriting some nice guns as well, like a bunch of Rugers (mini-14, .44 mag rifles, etc...) and some winchesters (.30-06 XTR, 30-30 lever action).

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:36 PM
BuckoM,

I like the G3 design. (Why do they call it a G3? The real German battle rifles are select fire) I've had the pleasure of handling a true HK-91 a few years ago and badly wanted to buy it, unfortunately no one had the $2,000 to lend me LOL. I've never heard of the company that put yours together. Is it reliable? A rather new gunshop in my area has a Century G3 in great shape for $500.. but I've heard a lot of bad things about thier quality, its hit or miss basically(no pun intended heh).. You might get a good shooter or a worthless malfunctioning piece of crap.. Not worth the risk I'm afraid. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif One good thing though is the steel magazines are very rugged and still really cheap, compared to M14 mags!

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:03 PM
M700VS wrote:
- One good thing though is the
- steel magazines are very rugged and still really
- cheap, compared to M14 mags!

Hey, but there's good news on that note. The high capacity magazine ban in place by congress should sunset like in March or May of 2004, meaning that you might see cheaper, high quality magazines for the m14 again.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:21 AM
Ambassador wrote:
- I don't have too much... just an ak-47 (romanian, 40
- round mag), and a 9mm sig sauer pistol.

Romanian, huh? That's close enough to Russian so it's probably well made. I'm not a big fan of 9mm, but Sigs are damn good pistols - don't sell it.


- sig sauer p226 40 cal (with .357 barrel)

Now, that's a good caliber!


- 22 ruger rifle

10/22? Those are great - I had one, but kinda' lost it going from friend to friend's house and left it somewhere and lost contact so I lost the rifle.


FYI: .30-06 = "30-aught-6" /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

Message Edited on 07/28/0306:23PM by BuckoM

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:38 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- I'd think the barrel issues would hurt the value more
- than it being dirty (because its sporterized).

Yeah, but I can find a barrel for a lot less than $500 (what would bring up to the average $1000 price) so that wasn't a problem, but it did look pretty bad before I cleaned it up.


- Well, if you get an M-16 based rifle, I'd recommend
- looking for the cicilian version of the SR-25, just
- because its in .308 (i think its made by knight)

Cicilian version, eh? That would be 'bella'? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif You don't like Armalites?


- I never use more than Iron sights

Oh, I don't have any plans to put scopes on assault/military rifles. I've got a scope on my lame-a$$ 7mm Rem Mag and that's enough for now.



- there is a scout version readily available.

If you get the scout version out of convenience it probably won't satisfy your desire completely and you'll end up with the full-length barrel version as well. Not that there's anything wrong with that.


- So you'll inherit a pre ban .223 Colt CAR-15?
- Remember, he has to die first.j/k

He has aplastic anemia and although he's kicked it once with medical help and once without. I think he'll be fine, but he make comments and decisions based on his death. For instance, when he recently bought a new house he bought one that my sisters and I could sell easily or one of us could move into. I won't list every gun, but to give you an idea of what kind of nut gene I have I'll inherit:

32 revolvers
28 semi-auto pistols
10 shotguns
15 rifles

Yeeeeeeee-Haw! Let's git drunk and go shootin'!


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:16 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- M700VS wrote:
-- One good thing though is the
-- steel magazines are very rugged and still really
-- cheap, compared to M14 mags!
-
- Hey, but there's good news on that note. The high
- capacity magazine ban in place by congress should
- sunset like in March or May of 2004, meaning that
- you might see cheaper, high quality magazines for
- the m14 again.
-
- FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM
-

Yep I know all about it. Its a part of the 1994 'AWB'. September '04 is when its set to sunset as far as I know. I'm looking forward to it, I have an M4 carbine just begging me to replace the muzzle brake with a flash suppressor and a 'fake' telescoping stock wanting to be replaced with a working stock. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif The problem with normal cap' magazines though is someone has to want to MAKE them again for us civvies.. Companies like Springfield Armory LOVE selling thier preban M14 mags for $90 a piece.. THey don't wanna sell new ones to you for half that if they can help it.. Good thing is the postban mags that are out there that are marked "Law Enforcement/Military use only" will be legal for us to buy.. Heheh, that'd be great. I'm also hoping SigArms (Mecgar(sp?) makes thier mags for 'em now though) will have aplenty of normal cap' mags for us.. I'd love to get 13rd mags for my P228 for $25 instead of the outrageous $70+ the prebans are going for now.. I've got 3 and that'll have to do 'till then.. and I refuse to buy nuetered postbans.. they are a POS. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:57 AM
M700VS wrote:
- BuckoM,
-
- I like the G3 design. (Why do they call it a G3? The
- real German battle rifles are select fire) I've had
- the pleasure of handling a true HK-91 a few years
- ago and badly wanted to buy it, unfortunately no one
- had the $2,000 to lend me LOL.

I think 'they' call it a G3 because it is made from G3 parts, but effectively it is an HK91 with a G3 foregrip. My uncle has a true HK91 and it is beautiful.

- I've never heard of the company that put yours together.
- Is it reliable?

My guess is that an enthusiast/owner/gunsmith assembled it and not the the receiver manufacturer themselves. I've put a few hundred rounds through it and have never had any problems. My father has a CETME (the predecessor to the HKs) and it will only fire NATO ammo because it rips the shells during ejection. If you can find a CETME you should get one - you can easily find one of those in great condition for $500 and, supposedly gunsmiths can fix the CETME problem so you can shoot factory ammo. Besides, the CETME looks really cool with the wooden stocks and pistol grip.


- A rather new gunshop in my area has a Century G3 in
- great shape for $500.. but I've heard a lot of bad
- things about thier quality, its hit or miss
- basically(no pun intended heh).. You might get a
- good shooter or a worthless malfunctioning piece of
- crap.. Not worth the risk I'm afraid.

I agree. See if the gunshop will order a Federal Arms receiver and/or assemble it for you. The Federal Arms receiver is aluminum (forged I think - I don't see any 'seams'). Someone makes a stamped sheetmetal receiver, but I can't remember the name - maybe that's the Century. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


- One good thing though is the steel magazines are very
- rugged and still really cheap, compared to M14 mags!

I've got 3 20-round aluminum mags for my G3. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ...but I keep cartridges in them so they are a little stronger. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif An odd thing about the G3/HK91 is that the CETME magazines will fit them, but their magazines won't fit the CETMEs. My father bought a case of 10 CETME magazines a while back and gave me 5 - they were only $4.00 each (yes, four). Bring on the food riots!


Tycho_lives wrote:
- Hey, but there's good news on that note. The high
- capacity magazine ban in place by congress should
- sunset like in March or May of 2004

Hopefully. When you say "high capacity magazine" I don't know if you mean 20 or higher, but think about this: If you get a 30-round magazine you might have trouble shooting from the prone position. Someone at work mentioned that to me when I was lamenting about not being able to find 30-round magazines for my G3 and ever since I've been happy with my 20-round magazines.

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:29 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Ambassador wrote:
-- I don't have too much... just an ak-47 (romanian, 40
-- round mag), and a 9mm sig sauer pistol.
-
- Romanian, huh? That's close enough to Russian so
- it's probably well made. I'm not a big fan of 9mm,
- but Sigs are damn good pistols - don't sell it.
-

My Sig Sauer p225 is an EXCELLENT pistol. I've must have popped like 500 rounds through this thing since I've had it an it has not even had a HINT of a malfunction. EXCELLENT made pistol. I could definitely see myself buying another Sig Sauer if I had more money, and didn't need more "variety".
Yeah, the ak-47 is not bad, but I paid way too much for it though...


-
-- sig sauer p226 40 cal (with .357 barrel)
-
- Now, that's a good caliber!
-

Oh yeah, it was excellent. Unfortunately, I don't like the P226's grip because it is bigger than mine. Mine fits me like a glove...

-
-- 22 ruger rifle
-
- 10/22? Those are great - I had one, but kinda' lost
- it going from friend to friend's house and left it
- somewhere and lost contact so I lost the rifle.
-

Yes, my bad!

-
- FYI: .30-06 = "30-aught-6" -

Yeah, but spelled out, that is what it is. I usually put the 30-06 on there, but I don't know, I guess I just felt like it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<font color="white"><table style="filter:glow[color=blue, strength=4)"><font size=1>"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf"
- George Orwell</table><font color="white">
<font color="red">[/b]</u>[/i]</font size>
<marquee bgcolor="#811000"><font color="red"><font size=4>Now in the news................................Ubisoft loses sales due to poor customer service.....................Ubisoft enemies grow %3 today.....................Development team credentials for game company Ubisoft under investigation.....................New patch available for download for Ubisoft's Raven Shield (patch 1.64b) now available.....................New patch released today for Raven Shield by Ubisoft is causing catastrophic computer failures.....................Monitors and computers worldwide explode in residential and business areas due to game "Raven Shield" malfunction.....................Author Tom Clancy gets arrested today as he enters game company Ubisoft offices, and strikes a developer several times.....................Man wanted for murder takes hostages in Montana home; police say that the demands are that Ubisoft stops screwing customers over. The police abruptly stopped negotiating when they found out his demands, and sent in the SWAT team in fear that the demands were impossible.....................Ex-Police Chief Charles Moose tells reporters of why he didn't write about his lousy experiences with game company Ubisoft. Moose says he will have to write another book just about that</marquee><font color="white">[/b]</u>[/i]</font size>

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 03:33 PM
Ambassador wrote:
- My Sig Sauer p225 is an EXCELLENT pistol. I've must
- have popped like 500 rounds through this thing since
- I've had it an it has not even had a HINT of a
- malfunction. EXCELLENT made pistol. I could
- definitely see myself buying another Sig Sauer if I
- had more money, and didn't need more "variety".
- Yeah, the ak-47 is not bad, but I paid way too much
- for it though...

Yep, gotta love Sigs. You got a great pistol there, the P225 has a VERY loyal following.. I picked my 228 over it though, just because I like the double stacked mags better than single stack. The grip still fits me fantastic, like it was molded for my hand. I've put a little under 2000rds through it so far and its never malfunctioned. I've TRIED to limp wrist it, and I've shot it sideways and upside down and at a 45* and everything else just to test ejection, it just refuses to let me down. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif The 3 P228's the U.S. Military tested for thier M-11 contract (for standard compact sidearm) each went 5k without a jam, and thats a combined 15,000rds fired through 3 P228s. Somethin' to be proud of. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 08:07 PM
Ambassador wrote:
- Yeah, the ak-47 is not bad, but I paid way too much
- for it though...

I doubt it. Russian ones are almost impossible to find; I haven't seen one a gun show here in Houston in several years. The closer you get to Russian manufacture the more they are worth.


- Yes, my bad!

No "bad" - Ruger makes more than one model of .22. Is it a 10/22?


- Yeah, but spelled out, that is what it is. I usually
- put the 30-06 on there, but I don't know, I guess I
- just felt like it! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Well, you 'ought' not do that to us. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 11:27 PM
BuckoM wrote:

- Yeah, but I can find a barrel for a lot less than
- $500 (what would bring up to the average $1000
- price) so that wasn't a problem, but it did look
- pretty bad before I cleaned it up.

Well, i'd bet you could sell that rifle (yeah, as if you would, riiiiiiight) for something in between the average and what you got it for.

- Cicilian version, eh? That would be 'bella'

whoops, typo.lol

- You don't like Armalites?

oh yeah, I like Armalites, nothing beats the original manufacturer. For some reason i was assuming that they only made .223 ARs, but after checking that gun site i gave you, I can see my mistake.

- He has aplastic anemia and although he's kicked it
- once with medical help and once without. I think
- he'll be fine, but he make comments and decisions
- based on his death.

Hey, sorry bout the death joke. If I'd known he wasn't in absolute perfect health, then I wouldn't have made it (that's not to say i'm calling him sickly, but just that I wasn't aware of his condition).

- If you get the scout version out of convenience it
- probably won't satisfy your desire completely and
- you'll end up with the full-length barrel version as
- well. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Well, I'd actually prefer to have multiple M1-As, but i do actually like the scout version. I'd probably also put an aimpoint site on it, just because its cool. Yeah, I'll also probably buy a Russian made Ak-103 once I get up enough money to buy it comfortably.

- Hopefully. When you say "high capacity magazine" I don't
- know if you mean 20 or higher, but think about this: If
- you get a 30-round magazine you might have trouble
- shooting from the prone position. Someone at work
- mentioned that to me when I was lamenting about not being
- able to find 30-round magazines for my G3 and ever since
- I've been happy with my 20-round magazines.

Well, I'm mostly referring to 20 round magazines, especially because ammunition boxes divide perfectly into them (like factory .223, not surplus necessarily). Although, I'd most prefer a 75 round drum magazine, just for convenience (like on an Ak-103).

Oh, and cheaper than dirt has 30 round HK 91 magazines (I'm not sure if those will fit a G3)

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM


Message Edited on 07/29/0310:31PM by Tycho_lives

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 12:08 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
-- Cicilian version, eh? That would be 'bella'
-
- whoops, typo.lol

I know, but I just couldn't resist...


- oh yeah, I like Armalites, nothing beats the
- original manufacturer. For some reason i was
- assuming that they only made .223 ARs, but after
- checking that gun site i gave you, I can see my
- mistake.

Did you see the .50? Not as cool as a Barrett, but a hell of a lot cheaper...


- Hey, sorry bout the death joke. If I'd known he
- wasn't in absolute perfect health, then I wouldn't
- have made it (that's not to say i'm calling him
- sickly, but just that I wasn't aware of his
- condition).

Don't worry about it. He's fine - he's just being a baby.


- Oh, and cheaper than dirt has 30 round HK 91
- magazines (I'm not sure if those will fit a G3)

Oh yeah. A G3:HK91::M-14:M1A or M-16:AR-15. Remember from standardized tests? G3s and HK91s are the same except for the fire selectivity. I'll have to check them out - I haven't gotten a catalog from them in a while...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 01:36 AM
For that thirty round G3 magazine, go here:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=122021&imgid=&categname=Magazines&dept%5Fname=H+%26+K&mscssid=BNR2195PF0N09JVMEEM01NUK74B7B7F2

the one you want is listed last

Heh, its kind of funny that you started ignoring this thread at the same time I put forth useful information.

So, what do you think of the Mini-14? I just bought a ranch version of it for $350 used, perfect condition. I know the accuracy is substandard, (like military issue, not match) but 2-3 inch groups at one hundred yards is good enough for prairie dogs or bottles. I have a Bushnell adjustable 3-9 power scope on it, already sighted in. That cost me an extra fifty bucks. i also got myself two twenty round magazines with it in addition to the standard five rounder. unfortuneately, I think I'll have to only load those twenty round magazines to ten due to how cheap they are (I hate jamming). Of course, the 5.56 ammo I bought, being a little bit longer (bullet seating depth, not casing length) than other .223, doesn't help either.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM


Message Edited on 08/07/0312:50AM by Tycho_lives

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:04 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- For that thirty round G3 magazine, go here:

I might need a couple of those 'just because'.


- Heh, its kind of funny that you started ignoring
- this thread at the same time I put forth useful
- information.

I really wasn't ignoring it I could've sworn I replied to it and I just figured it died.


- So, what do you think of the Mini-14?

My father owns one of those that I'll inherit eventually. I think they are great. If I ever come across one and I have the extra money I'll probably buy one. If not I can wait...


- Of course, the 5.56 ammo I bought, being a little bit
- longer (bullet seating depth, not casing length) than
- other .223, doesn't help either.


My father's CETME bursts the shells of factory ammo and can only fire NATO ammo. He bought about 1000 rounds and gave me like 300. Have I told this story on this thread?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-07-2003, 05:12 PM
BuckoM wrote:

- I might need a couple of those 'just because'.

yeah, I bet those nice, straight magazines feed real well.

- I really wasn't ignoring it I could've sworn I
- replied to it and I just figured it died.

well, i guess we'll never be sure what happened, exactly, but this is one of my favorite threads to reply to.

- My father's CETME bursts the shells of factory ammo
- and can only fire NATO ammo. He bought about 1000
- rounds and gave me like 300. Have I told this story
- on this thread?

eh, you've mentioned CETME bursting rounds before, but not that your father bought a bunch of ammunition for his. What's the caliber on this CETME you speak of, .308? i'm thinking that because there are major/minor differences between factory .308 and NATO .308, like casing thickness and length.

of course, the bullets being seated farther forward on that 5.56 ammo i bought is pretty funny. they can barely fit in the magazine and wont feed very well around the magazine curve, so I have to load those twenty rounders no more than ten.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:51 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- What's the caliber on this CETME you speak of, .308?
- i'm thinking that because there are major/minor
- differences between factory .308 and NATO .308, like
- casing thickness and length.

Yes, it is a .308. And the thicker case of the NATO ammo is exactly why they don't rip.


- of course, the bullets being seated farther forward
- on that 5.56 ammo i bought is pretty funny. they
- can barely fit in the magazine and wont feed very
- well around the magazine curve, so I have to load
- those twenty rounders no more than ten.

Now that's odd. The bullets probably look odd, but for the longest time you can't quite tell what's not right about them, right?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

Message Edited on 08/07/0311:59PM by BuckoM

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:03 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- Now that's odd. The bullets probably look odd, but
- for the longest time you can't quite tell what's not
- right about them, right?

Well, you actually can't tell just by looking at them (though it is confounding at first why they feed differently), but you have to put it next to a normal .223 or measure it. I'm sure that higher seating will improve accuracy too.

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 02:22 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- I'm sure that higher seating will improve accuracy too.

You think? There is a school of thought that claims the muzzle is more critical to accuracy than the throat...

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 10:47 PM
It is true that changing the seating depth *can* affect accuracy, if the shooter and rifle are fairly accurate to begin with. Usually the closer to the lands the better. The less the bullet has to "jump" the more consistancy you'll have. As an extreme example, match grade .22LR rifles usually have a very tight chamber. On my Remington M37(dated 1940's can't track it better than that) you literally push the bullet into the rifling upon chambering.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 12:53 AM
Yeah, i was going to say something just like M700 was. Those NATO standard 5.56 rounds I bought (And they are nato compatible, they have the cross on the casing) like touch the front of the magazine. So in effect, the round is that much closer to the rifling. i went out and shot it the other day, and the accuracy seemed better than a normal Mini 14. Of course, accuracy degraded as the barrel got hot, but what are you gonna do?

FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 02:42 AM
M700VS wrote:
- It is true that changing the seating depth *can*
- affect accuracy, if the shooter and rifle are fairly
- accurate to begin with. Usually the closer to the
- lands the better. The less the bullet has to "jump"
- the more consistancy you'll have.

I always thought the throat was more critical, but after coming across an article on Fulton Armory's page I agreed with the logic that says the crowning of the muzzle is probably more important.
Suppose you have a bolt rifle with a 28 or 30 inch barrel you are quite proud of. You shoot thousands of rounds through it until the throat reading is comparable to field reject. The rifling farther down the barrel is still in pretty good shape. So you whack a couple inches off the back end and re-chamber it getting the throat reading back comparable to zero. Will it become that tack driver again? Not likely. You would have been much better off whacking a couple inches off the muzzle end and re-crowning it. You would have noticed great improvement in accuracy. This is because you would have gotten rid of the worn rifling at the muzzle and the exit diameter would be back real close to .300.

Many shooters do not realize the wear that takes place at the muzzle and how important that end is to accuracy. Here is a brief view of what happens. The gases pushing the bullet through the barrel possess a greater velocity potential than the bullet does. At the very instant the bullet breaks seal with the muzzle the gases blow past the bullet. This "blow by" effect at the time of exit tends to wash away metal at the muzzle. As the muzzle erodes, the gases start leaking around the bullet before it is really supposed to be free from the barrel. Any irregularity in the way the gases leak past the bullet will have effect on accuracy. The condition of the rifling at the muzzle and the crown have far more meaning than a few thousandths of wear at the throat. From experience I have found a throat to muzzle wear ratio of about 2 or 2‚ę to 1. With a throat reading of 5, you'll usually see about 2 or 3 thousandths of wear at the muzzle. This amount of wear at the muzzle will account for losses in accuracy.

Full article: http://www.fulton-armory.com/TEGauge.htm


- As an extreme example, match grade .22LR rifles usually
- have a very tight chamber. On my Remington M37(dated
- 1940's can't track it better than that) you literally
- push the bullet into the rifling upon chambering.

What about this:
...too little clearance is a bad thing, too. That is, if there is "negative" clearance and the case has to be forced into the chamber by the bolt, it can wedge the case neck tightly around the bullet, raising pressures by thus delaying bullet release. Then the hot gas will come out the primer pocket...

Full article: http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspace.htm


Tycho_lives wrote:
- Of course, accuracy degraded as the barrel got hot,
- but what are you gonna do?

Water cool it like an 'overclocker'! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 03:42 AM
yes, the muzzle is more important than the breech, but a higher seating on the round, not casing length, will still improve accuracy consistency. Of course, if I want a real accurate rifle, then I'd scope my Ruger #1 in 30-06.

<center>[b]FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 06:45 AM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- yes, the muzzle is more important than the breech,
- but a higher seating on the round, not casing
- length, will still improve accuracy consistency.

...but how? Wouldn't higher seating only have an effect on the throat?


- Of course, if I want a real accurate rifle, then I'd
- scope my Ruger #1 in 30-06.

Of course!


<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 07:40 PM
BuckoM wrote:
- ...but how? Wouldn't higher seating only have an
- effect on the throat?

You know, you may be right. I guess I forgot that throat is the space between the chamber and where the rifling begins. Of course, the closer to the rifling you can get, the better. I know people who reload bullets for bolt action rifles so long that they have to chamber the round (they won't fit in the magazine)

<center>[b]FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 09:57 PM
BuckoM wrote:

-- As an extreme example, match grade .22LR rifles usually
-- have a very tight chamber. On my Remington M37(dated
-- 1940's can't track it better than that) you literally
-- push the bullet into the rifling upon chambering.
-
- What about this:
- ...too little clearance is a bad thing, too. That
- is, if there is "negative" clearance and the case
- has to be forced into the chamber by the bolt, it
- can wedge the case neck tightly around the bullet,
- raising pressures by thus delaying bullet release.
- Then the hot gas will come out the primer
- pocket...
-
- Full article: <a
- href="http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspace.htm"
- target=_blank>http://www.fulton-armory.com/headspa
- ce.htm</a>

Doesn't apply to rimfire.. The case itself isn't being forced at all, only the soft lead bullet. Rimfire bullets are the same diameter as the case they are mainly seated outside the case.. Pushing them into the rifling just ensures every shot is as consistant as possible.

As for the throat wear compared to the muzzle.. Sure the whole barrel wears in time, but the throat is the first to go. Few barrels are actually *shot out* from bullet friction.. The heat from the powder burning and the pressure build up is what destroys the throat. Rechambering *is* a valid way to get more life from a barrel but for the cost unless the barrel is a great shooter, its better to rebarrel. On the muzzle end, recrowning is usually all that is needed. After all its the very end of the barrel, where a sharp crisp edge is needed to keep the gas blow effect equal on all sides of the bullet. Many barrels that have a high accuracy demand are usually recrowned as often as every 500 shots. Throat corrosion isn't as much of a concern in something like a 308 or 30-06.. but overbore calibers (large case compared to the bore size) like many varmint cartridges such as my 22-250 and the 220 Swift do a real job on throats.. My 22-250 throat is gonna be hurtin' at about the 4k mark, but the muzzle will more than likely be in great shape. When that time comes I'll probably re-chamber for 22-250AI (Ackley Improved) to give it a try before I rebarrel for that cartridge. I'll let you know from firsthand experience how a rechambering effects accuracy. I've learned all this from a very respectable gunsmith I know in Idaho. He does work for people from all over the country.

Well, I think I've said more than enough for one day. lol!

Have a nice day.

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 10:09 PM
Tycho_lives wrote:
- For that thirty round G3 magazine, go here:
-
- <a
- href="http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/dept.asp?
- dept%5Fid=122021&imgid=&categname=Magazines&dept%5
- Fname=H+%26+K&mscssid=BNR2195PF0N09JVMEEM01NUK74B7
- B7F2"
- target=_blank>http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/d
- ept.asp?dept%5Fid=122021&imgid=&categname=Magazine
- s&dept%5Fname=H+%26+K&mscssid=BNR2195PF0N09JVMEEM0
- 1NUK74B7B7F2</a>
-
-
- the one you want is listed last
-
- Heh, its kind of funny that you started ignoring
- this thread at the same time I put forth useful
- information.
-
- So, what do you think of the Mini-14? I just bought
- a ranch version of it for $350 used, perfect
- condition. I know the accuracy is substandard,
- (like military issue, not match) but 2-3 inch groups
- at one hundred yards is good enough for prairie dogs
- or bottles. I have a Bushnell adjustable 3-9 power
- scope on it, already sighted in. That cost me an
- extra fifty bucks. i also got myself two twenty
- round magazines with it in addition to the standard
- five rounder. unfortuneately, I think I'll have to
- only load those twenty round magazines to ten due to
- how cheap they are (I hate jamming). Of course, the
- 5.56 ammo I bought, being a little bit longer
- (bullet seating depth, not casing length) than other
- .223, doesn't help either.

I didn't look but more than likely those G3 mags CTD carry are "USA" mags, and they are universally known as the worst junk you can buy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I was going to reply to this a while ago but I forgot lol.. I used to have a Mini-14. Are those 2-3" groups with that scope you mentioned, or irons?? I loved mine, but they have terrible barrels.. Mine was about a 5 MOA shooter with iron sights... My M4 carbine on the other hand, with a chrome lined 14.5" barrel(mil-spec) and muzzle brake, shoots close to 3 MOA with irons and around 1" with a scope. Also, factory 30rd mags aren't $80 a piece like the Mini's! rock solid reliable guns though, that action is great. Mine never gave me trouble.. Of course, my AR hasn't either. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-10-2003, 11:12 PM
the thirty rounders are made by Matco.

<center>[b]FATUM IUSTUM STULTORUM

XyZspineZyX
08-26-2003, 04:48 PM
I own a AR-15 (M4A2 Carbine) civilian version of my great air forces M-16. Attached is a CM-2037 "Flare Launcher". It looks exactly like the games weapons w/grenade launcher. My next buy is the Barret Model 82A1 .50 cal semi automatic sniper rifle. I like the idea of being able to reach out and touch something from a mile and a half away.

XyZspineZyX
08-26-2003, 11:21 PM
Barretts are nice, but I'll settle for the Armalite. Aren't the Barretts like $20,000?

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 01:54 AM
That
Kujo21 wrote:
- My next buy is the Barret Model
- 82A1 .50 cal semi automatic sniper rifle. I like
- the idea of being able to reach out and touch
- something from a mile and a half away.

The M82A1 isn't the best gun for civilian long range shooting.. They are mainly for taking out light armored vehicles... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Too many moving parts (including the barrel!) to get a seriously accurate weapon out of it. For more precision you'd be better off with a single shot bolt action.. They also cost WAY less than half of the approx. $8000-$10,000 price tag. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I don't blame you for wanting a .50 though, they are fun! I've had the pleasure of shooting a 50BMG twice, and I figured that'd get it out of my system... But it didn't work... I want one now even more! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 06:29 AM
I'm telling you the Armalite is the way to go...

http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/rifles/ar50.htm

<LEFT>http://web.wt.net/~bucko/SniperICO.jpg <LEFT>

Don't try to run away - you'll only die tired.

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 01:32 PM
Oh I totally agree that there is alot of components and makes it less accurate. I'm just into the power it has. I've shot a few times with it blowing a 2X4 at 300yards into tooth picks. I think the SEALs actually do use it for vehicles. But yeah if I'm going for accuracy I'll take a bolt action .308 or 300 Weatherby Magnum. Shoot...my Bushmaster AR-15 I have the open sites set for 200 yrds and I can put a bullet down range anywhere I feel like. Thats why the military hasn't gotten away from them. There just that accurate...

http://pic6.picturetrail.com/VOL154/1405542/2677817/32569734.jpg