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drunkrepublican
05-23-2007, 08:38 PM
Remember the movie Jaws? Wasn't it great? Remember Jaws 2? Wasn't it pretty good? Remember Jaws 3...it...sucked.
The first two Spider-man movies were good. The third...was ok..

Why? After a couple of times, the same idea tends to get kind of old. I come to the forums hoping to discuss with fellow players how they're looking forward to ConViction, and there's nothing but whining! Remember E3 2001? Halo got nothing but bad rep..People say the graphics were subpar, the gameplay wasn't varied enough, and the framerate wasn't stable. Then when they gave it a chance, they hailed it as one of the greatest shooters of all time.


It sounds to me like you just come here to complain. If that's the case, a multinational video game company is not going to change a game in the middle of the development process to accomadate a couple of upset fans. Instead of flooding the forums with nothing but why you feel the game is going to be terrible, why not go to another forum for a game you like, and let all of us who are anticipating conViction have the forum here to discuss it instead of having the forum cluttered with negative posts.

braiog
05-23-2007, 08:53 PM
I'd usually agree with that, but...

SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)

The saying is "Go with what works!" "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" "Baseball is impossible game because no man can walk with four balls".

I guess anyone who's bought a SC game and is a fan of the series kind of has the right to say whether they disapprove of what they've seen so far as much as they do to say something positive. And what better place to do that than on the official forums?

Remember the same thing happened in DA. A lot of people said "Just wait til you play it! You might like it" .... well...... you know.... game kinda funked up big time.

Oh, not to mention that it's just SO MUCH EASIER to be pessimistic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FSA_shadow
05-23-2007, 09:07 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Jason-Bourne223
05-24-2007, 12:33 AM
Originally posted by drunkrepublican:
Remember the movie Jaws? Wasn't it great? Remember Jaws 2? Wasn't it pretty good? Remember Jaws 3...it...sucked.
The first two Spider-man movies were good. The third...was ok..

Why? After a couple of times, the same idea tends to get kind of old.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Finally, somebody who's not bashing a game he hasn't played. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I completely agree with what you said, if SC5 would have been the same style as the first few games, it would have been good, but I don't know of anything new or innovative that they could have done with it. I'll talk about SC5 with you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


By the way, Double Agent didn't get "Horrible reviews".

simulacra
05-24-2007, 12:39 AM
Games seldom get the score they really deserbem for some reason most game writers are starry eyed nitwits who seems to be happy as long as it's a game.

Just look at the score deus ex 2 got, and DA for that matter...

Black-S
05-24-2007, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by drunkrepublican:
Remember the movie Jaws? Wasn't it great? Remember Jaws 2? Wasn't it pretty good? Remember Jaws 3...it...sucked.
The first two Spider-man movies were good. The third...was ok..

Why? After a couple of times, the same idea tends to get kind of old. I come to the forums hoping to discuss with fellow players how they're looking forward to ConViction, and there's nothing but whining! Remember E3 2001? Halo got nothing but bad rep..People say the graphics were subpar, the gameplay wasn't varied enough, and the framerate wasn't stable. Then when they gave it a chance, they hailed it as one of the greatest shooters of all time.



It sounds to me like you just come here to complain. If that's the case, a multinational video game company is not going to change a game in the middle of the development process to accomadate a couple of upset fans. Instead of flooding the forums with nothing but why you feel the game is going to be terrible, why not go to another forum for a game you like, and let all of us who are anticipating conViction have the forum here to discuss it instead of having the forum cluttered with negative posts.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Absolutely. What I cant get over is people judging the whole SCC game over 2 Gameplay videos, a couple of spoiler articles and a few images. Ubisoft hasnt even released the game yet and people think they can form an absolutely fullproof argument based on a couple minutes of footage. Personally I think this game is going to be awesome, based on the simple fact that Montreal is developing it and that I think the series needs to take on a new concept.

Chinese_Bookey
05-24-2007, 04:27 AM
You're whining at us whining. It's a vicious circle, my friend. And it sure sounds to me that some of you actually want us to whine, so that you can make these threads to sound "righteous" with your somewhat patronizing "maturity." I'm neither judging nor pointing my finger here at anyone, I'm just stating the somewhat obvious, if you ask me.

If you let us express our anger and frustration, we'll let you express your joy and excitement. You say we whine. We say you oppress. We can hate all we want, and you can love all you want. Not fair enough? You trying to beat some "sense" into us isn't helping anyone at all. It just makes you whiners among whiners you're whining at for being whiners. It'll never end.

What happened to freedom of speech, anyway? People can't say what they want without being flamed at for their opinions? These threads won't solve anything! They're contradictions! They're merely more fuel on the fire that is the negativity and "whining" concerning this game.

Black-S
05-24-2007, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
You're whining at us whining. It's a vicious circle, my friend. And it sure sounds to me that some of you actually want us to whine, so that you can make these threads to sound "righteous" with your somewhat patronizing "maturity." I'm neither judging nor pointing my finger here at anyone, I'm just stating the somewhat obvious, if you ask me.

If you let us express our anger and frustration, we'll let you express your joy and excitement. You say we whine. We say you oppress. We can hate all we want, and you can love all you want. Not fair enough? You trying to beat some "sense" into us isn't helping anyone at all. It just makes you whiners among whiners you're whining at for being whiners. It'll never end.

What happened to freedom of speech, anyway? People can't say what they want without being flamed at for their opinions? These threads won't solve anything! They're contradictions! They're merely more fuel on the fire that is the negativity and "whining" concerning this game.

Yeah Im clearly "oppressing" people to not whine. I havent oppressed anyone. All I am saying is that the so called "whiners" back up their comments with a legitament argument, and not start 20 threads with the same thing of "its not SC anymore". You can express all your frustration all you want I encourage you to do it as long as you give a good argument.

Im just simply saying that it is too early for a game to be written off completely as being a failure considering there have only been 2 videos released and the game isnt even due until the end of the year. By all means post your concerns about the direction the series is taking, but I get annoyed of reading threads which start out as positive and only end with the pessimists saying its the end of the world.

Btw, you must admit the physics in the game are damn cool.

Lil Proximo7
05-24-2007, 05:29 AM
You're whining at us whining. It's a vicious circle, my friend. And it sure sounds to me that some of you actually want us to whine, so that you can make these threads to sound "righteous" with your somewhat patronizing "maturity." I'm neither judging nor pointing my finger here at anyone, I'm just stating the somewhat obvious, if you ask me.

If you let us express our anger and frustration, we'll let you express your joy and excitement. You say we whine. We say you oppress. We can hate all we want, and you can love all you want. Not fair enough? You trying to beat some "sense" into us isn't helping anyone at all. It just makes you whiners among whiners you're whining at for being whiners. It'll never end.

""What happened to freedom of speech, anyway? People can't say what they want without being flamed at for their opinions? These threads won't solve anything! They're contradictions! They're merely more fuel on the fire that is the negativity and "whining" concerning this game.""

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Well said there...now..can you guys actually sit there and really say to your self..this is a splintercell game?..i know i cant..change is sometimes good..but this is more like a whole new genre!!If i recall when DA came out..the WHOLE forum was saying how lame the game was gonna be with him being in jail and bald etc,and it isnt splintercell anymore..now its him with lots of hair, and running from the law..and it gonna be awesome??? i dont get it....like i said early, i dont mind change, but this has gone to far..

Chinese_Bookey
05-24-2007, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by Black-S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
You're whining at us whining. It's a vicious circle, my friend. And it sure sounds to me that some of you actually want us to whine, so that you can make these threads to sound "righteous" with your somewhat patronizing "maturity." I'm neither judging nor pointing my finger here at anyone, I'm just stating the somewhat obvious, if you ask me.

If you let us express our anger and frustration, we'll let you express your joy and excitement. You say we whine. We say you oppress. We can hate all we want, and you can love all you want. Not fair enough? You trying to beat some "sense" into us isn't helping anyone at all. It just makes you whiners among whiners you're whining at for being whiners. It'll never end.

What happened to freedom of speech, anyway? People can't say what they want without being flamed at for their opinions? These threads won't solve anything! They're contradictions! They're merely more fuel on the fire that is the negativity and "whining" concerning this game.

Yeah Im clearly "oppressing" people to not whine. I havent oppressed anyone. All I am saying is that the so called "whiners" back up their comments with a legitament argument, and not start 20 threads with the same thing of "its not SC anymore". You can express all your frustration all you want I encourage you to do it as long as you give a good argument.

Im just simply saying that it is too early for a game to be written off completely as being a failure considering there have only been 2 videos released and the game isnt even due until the end of the year. By all means post your concerns about the direction the series is taking, but I get annoyed of reading threads which start out as positive and only end with the pessimists saying its the end of the world.

Btw, you must admit the physics in the game are damn cool. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That reply wasn't directed at you. Haha. I was just speaking to folks in general here. Sorry. Peace and love.

Gummy-Pants
05-24-2007, 06:40 AM
What disturbs me most is that DA isn't even finished yet -- There are still lots of bugs that need plucking out and fixing on the PC, not sure about the XBox 360, but I bet it's not much better. In order to set our controls/graphics/whatever the way we want is by all means ludicrous, we need to edit the config file because it either cannot be saved properly, or can't be changed at all.

When they started working on a PS3 version of DA I was surprised because, like before, there are still bugs on the other versions that need squashing.

As for Conviction, I knew it was gonna get to that as soon as it was known DA is gonna be different from the rest. Look, DA was a nice diversion, but why change something that so many people have come to love? Why not make splinter-games (hehe) one following the good ol' sneaking in high security environments-Sam, and the other the jailbird Sam, or offer a choice on how you want to play the game. This is much more like freeroam now, and although I never played the Hitman series I cannot help but having a bad feeling about this all.

Like I said on another forum showing the trailer: Where's the 'Splinter Cell' in Splinter Cell gone to?

Black-S
05-24-2007, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:

That reply wasn't directed at you. Haha. I was just speaking to folks in general here. Sorry. Peace and love.

Haha no worries Bookey, my mistake and I apologise. I probably got a little carried away. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Peace and Love right back at ya. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Brownsnakeeyes
05-24-2007, 08:34 AM
I believe I've earned the right to voice my opinion. I've been here for a while now.

People that haven't been here need to stop and be more respectful to the people that have been here longer than them. Because we have a right to be angry at this mess.

Plus I have almost every SC games except the old gen versions of DA. Even PC versions(except DA thank god)!

So you know what? I'll complain if I want too.

You know what?

I have also purchased every game in three different franchises made by UBI. I've spent alot of money on them. So I'll ***** if I want to! If you don't like it, don't read my posts!

Did you guys every think that we're mad or pissed off because UBI never listened to us. But of course it's very convenient for the forum to crash and burn so you new people can't read our comments about when DA first came out.

If UBI would've gone by our comments Conviction would be totally different.

The vets in these forums would most likely agree with me.


Another thing that most of you that agree with the move probably haven't thought about is the fact that if Conviction fails what then? Will this franchise be done because of UBI wanting to change things? Because it's happened before through video game history. or will this franchise become something like the Tomb Raider series. Very bad games until the company realizes what they've done and then returns it to what it was.

Filipe2004
05-24-2007, 09:50 AM
Yeah, i´ve been here a long time now(see the registred age, i thynk i´m the oldest here lol even whyt the thing that i have 14 Y.O) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
so i´l say a few stories, begore DA was on stores people had thys feeling tath it was going to be awesome, then it come to stores an the first complaints were the miserable MP and SP was too short(i agree whyt the fact SP is too short, about the MP i never played it so...)
then the bugs inpc come and ppl were complaining
with the lack of realism.
Then we come to this, everyone hated it becuse of not be original and the SC is diferent, i dont know if many ppl in thys foruns when comes out will give good or bad, but the majority of people will like it.

Brownsnakeeyes
05-24-2007, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Filipe2004:
Yeah, i´ve been here a long time now(see the registred age, i thynk i´m the oldest here lol even whyt the thing that i have 14 Y.O) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
so i´l say a few stories, begore DA was on stores people had thys feeling tath it was going to be awesome, then it come to stores an the first complaints were the miserable MP and SP was too short(i agree whyt the fact SP is too short, about the MP i never played it so...)
then the bugs inpc come and ppl were complaining
with the lack of realism.
Then we come to this, everyone hated it becuse of not be original and the SC is diferent, i dont know if many ppl in thys foruns when comes out will give good or bad, but the majority of people will like it.

Filipe2004, then tell me what the biggest problem people were having with the game( besides the PC community of course and for good reason)?

I'll tell you if you can't remember.

there were too many day missions and JBA missions.


So what does UBI do? They make the next game in daytime. Does that sound like a gaming company that listens to the people here?


I will also guarantee that they will not put a demo up until after the games out. Although there's already a Halo 3 beta out right now. I hope I'm wrong and UBI releases a demo of both SP and MP something like two months before release but who am I kidding.

But it would make better sense to release a demo for both by Christmas, then give us time for feedback on it. Wouldn't that be the best thing to do, since they are changing everything ingame?

braiog
05-24-2007, 10:35 AM
I pretty much agree with what Brownsnakeeyes is saying here.

Ubi has every right to make the game in the manner they want, and sometimes change is a good thing. But SC-CT provide that STEALTH ACTION sold well. It's what the vets of the community craved.

You can chalk up DA's failure to a lot of things. It COULD be that it was a break from previous SC gameplay. It COULD be that people were shunned due to a poor set of system requirements. It COULD be that people were unable to even install/play the game, or waited for a patch that never came.

Either way you slice it, the game failed. A series as popular as SC, doesn't go from Chaos Theory (the best in the series, IMO) to putting out the worst in the series without having made significant changes to what worked in previous SC. And sure enough, for those lucky enough to be able to play the game, we saw that it WAS different.

The community made itself heard. Ubi knows where it's community is, and they know where they can poll our thoughts on the series, to help them cater to the wants of the players. But they actively chose not to do so, and instead going on their own whims. They went creative again, and it may or may not payoff. Thing is, Ubi is all about the money... and how many iterations of poorly selling copies of a flagship series like SC can Ubi go through before they hit a brick wall.

And if at that point, they go back to TRUE stealth action, how much of the community is going to be left to buy into it?

Jackie Fiest
05-24-2007, 10:59 AM
braiog, considering that you are against the change in gameplay, you do not want the community to be polled. Trust me.


To everyone...

Think about it. Splinter Cell has sold around 15 million copies. Do you really think all of these copies were bought by people who post here? There are people who just as die hard SC fans as anyone here but for whatever reason will never chat here. So its definatley premature to say that the negative opinion of a few people represent the majority.

For example...

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/9...65/showpollresults/Y (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/9061084165/showpollresults/Y)

This is a poll in this same forum asking about what people think of the gameplay change. As of the time this was posted, 12 people have said they think the new gameplay will be bad. 28, more than double, have said they are looking forward to the new type of gameplay. This is what the devs that are looking over these forums are seeing and will prolly continue on their path. Obviously, judging by the very negative posts I've seen...the people who are looking forward to the game are not posting. And gee, I wonder why. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Also, it's worth pointing out that the manager of a video game store in the mall here told me that Double Agent for the 360 sold very well. Also, I purchased DA when I was still living in El Paso and I had to go to two different GameStops before I found a copy. I say the 360 specifically because I am not a pc player and I don't know enough about how those "chip set" and "motherboard" stuff works to say. But it also seems this discussion is not about chip sets and stuff, but gameplay.

I am not convinced that things are as bad as everyone says, for either DA or SC:C. Sales numbers and polls seem to say otherwise. People like to scream that Ubi only wants money but also think Ubi would continue on this path if it wasn't profitable? The two don't seem to balance. I'm looking forward to the new installment and I would encourage those that are looking forward to it to the game to keep doing so.

braiog
05-24-2007, 11:34 AM
Jackie-

You gotta admit though, this is no accurate way to poll.

What if you had 10 million FPS junkie gamers, and 1 million Stealth Action gamers.

If a SC turned out more FPS like, you might get the 10 million FPS junkies posting that they like how the game looks, whereas the vets to the game, only tallying 1/10th of the FPS gamers, all say 'no'

The polls show 9:1 in favor of the game's new direction, but are those gamers new or old to the series?

I would personally be more interested in seeing what a poll available to previous players of the SC franchise only. That, to me, would be a more accurate indication of whether the game was going in a desirable direction or not.

But Ubi's done this before (altering the game to cater to possible more business) And last time around, it failed. This isn't to say it won't happen again, but it could be used as a basis to that belief.

ShadownetPT
05-24-2007, 11:34 AM
I think that I'll make one more cameo appearance as this situation warrants it.

Earlier in the month I posted this on the orginal SC forum:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2771048463/m/4...211053755#7211053755 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2771048463/m/4351022755?r=7211053755#7211053755)

There I detailed the simple fact that for us who have been fans of the game since day ONE and have been on these boards since they were formed this new change in direction is troubling.

Now before the official opposition states that we are "whinning", step back a second and try to understand the fact that we are voicing our opinions...most of which are supported by sound fact and knowing a thing or two about SC due to the time we have spent with it.

Therefore, do not by hypocritical when you say we are writing off the game before its release and you are writing off our opinions as "whinning", without looking deeper into what we have to say.

With that being said, the simple fact here is tha SCC is not Splinter Cell. Period. It may be a great game to play, the graphics may be amazing and the plot could be incredibly interesting...but it is NOT Splinter Cell.

If by definition a Splinter Cell is:

"When intelligence deemed critical to national security cannot be obtained by traditional means, Third Echelon is granted clearance to conduct physical operations. Its existence denied by the U.S. government, Third Echelon deploys units known as Splinter Cells: elite intelligence-gathering forces consisting of a lone field operative supported by a remote team. Like a sliver of glass, a Splinter Cell is small, sharp, and nearly invisible."


then clearly this game is no longer about that. By definition this proves it.

You can slap a Mercedes Benz emblem on a Ford Taurus and even though the Taurus still has four doors, four wheels and moves when you press the gas pedal it still isnt a Mercedes. Catch my Drift?

Conversely, if you want to have a fugitive style typed game like we have seen thus far then great! Just make a new game/character etc. But to take the name "Splinter Cell" throw it on the cover art and use it to sell games is what is troubling here.

Now if you have something to say to that, post accordingly so that we can can to a conclusion from our discussion.

braiog
05-24-2007, 11:42 AM
Very well spoken. Good analogies.

IMO, the crowd system might work for Assassin's Creed, and they could have used it somewhat in Conviction if it was just "environmental" and not so integral to the gameplay, but Splinter Cell started out as Stealth Action.

Stealth is hard to define, but Espionage, Subterfuge, Gadgetry, Shadows and Lights, Stalking all seem to be very integral to that type of play.

Free form boxing, fighting, and walking out in public may make for a good game, but it doesn't make for a Stealth Action game.

I feel the term "Active Stealth" is just wordplay to keep the key phrase "Stealth" in the game. It's too early in the game's development cycle to see how it plays out, but as it stands now, the game would seemingly do better with a different moniker.

Jackie Fiest
05-24-2007, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by braiog:
Jackie-

You gotta admit though, this is no accurate way to poll.

You were not talking about a scientific poll, you said to poll the community.

"The community made itself heard. Ubi knows where it's community is, and they know where they can poll our thoughts on the series,"

How else do you poll the community more than a poll in the community?

They are not polling "vets" aka one small group that will run the series into bankrupcy because they can't continue a game on $49.99 x 100. They are polling as broad a range of gamers as possible to see what the masses will like. And while that does obviously involve major change, that doesn't mean it will be bad. It amazes me how some people are ready to write off a series they claim to love based on a game they have never played.

insanity76
05-24-2007, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by TFS_Jackie:
I'm looking forward to the new installment and I would encourage those that are looking forward to it to the game to keep doing so.

I intend to http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Granted I doubt it will top the original, which has been in my top 3 all time favorite games since I got it back in early '03, but it still looks like it's gonna be a very good addition to the series just like the previous 3 sequels, and I'm definitely stoked about it.

braiog
05-24-2007, 12:29 PM
Right, but the Splinter Cell Community is just that. Those who've played SC before. This poll is open to any person, espeically someone who's never played a SC game before, and just likes the style of game Conviction looks to be.

The results are going to be skewed.

There's no way we could get the results I want - I just think it would be neat to see what those numbers were. Like allow everyone 1 vote for every SC game they've bought, and poll only THOSE people. It's not possible, or practical, but would be interesting and I feel more accurate.

MKCC14
05-24-2007, 12:40 PM
I agree there is way too many negative posts and whining at Ubi for a game that hasnt even come close to its release yet and with so little info. I bet if someone makes a topic trying to talk about something positive it will eventually be overrun by people thinking negative of the game and saying:

"This game sucks, theres no sneaking"
"Sam is a hobo, he doesnt even look like Sam"
"Doesnt he look like Snake?"

and much more...

Me myself is looking forward to trying this new experience even though I will miss some of the sneaking and inverted neck grabs. Especially Sam's trademark, the triple-eye goggles.

simulacra
05-24-2007, 12:41 PM
Talk about binary disposition "it is not (in my definition) a stealth game, ergo it is a run n gun fps game".

Have you seen the videos? In what way did those look like ut2004 to you? Or armed assault for that matter? Because sam used a smg to take out a hot dog stand?
So that means that you NEVER used the rifle in earlier games, not once, because that is the only breach of stealthy that I've seen of SCC.

From what I can remeber, I used the rifle to blow stuff up a cpl of times.. oooh sorry, I was in a dark patch when I did it, that makes it stealthy

insanity76
05-24-2007, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
I bet if someone makes a topic trying to talk about something positive it will eventually be overrun by people thinking negative of the game and saying:

"This game sucks, theres no sneaking"
"Sam is a hobo, he doesnt even look like Sam"
"Doesnt he look like Snake?"

and much more...

That's already happened:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/5001010265

DrMeaty79
05-24-2007, 01:15 PM
I think most people are impressed with what's been shown so far(difficult not to be), but some hardcore SC fans can't help wondering what was wrong with Splinter Cell, and why did they choose to stop making Splinter Cell games in favor of this new game?
I guess Bungie could have a guy jumping 20 feet into the air, then coming down and bumping dudes with his butt, collecting coins and ****, make that guy look like Master Chief, and then say, "Here you go, Halo 3 campaign mode!" Sure, if it's your IP, you can take it in any direction you want, just don't be surprised when the loyal fans of the series start to feel pooed on.

Peeter04
05-24-2007, 01:22 PM
I think Montreal deserves to give it a try, since Shanghai had their chance making a daylight oriented game. Maybe even Montreal wants do to a better game now, since the last wasn't so great.

I think this game is similar to Assassin's Creed. Though Assassin's Creed is from a different genre, they are both daylight oriented and have stealth.

MKCC14
05-24-2007, 01:24 PM
I still think its a splinter cell game. No other game has Sam Fisher, and the only game to have him is Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell. Also, there is still gadgets and stealth in the game. Seems like a SC game to me.

Chinese_Bookey
05-24-2007, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
I bet if someone makes a topic trying to talk about something positive it will eventually be overrun by people thinking negative of the game
There's no positive without negative.

MKCC14
05-24-2007, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
I bet if someone makes a topic trying to talk about something positive it will eventually be overrun by people thinking negative of the game
There's no positive without negative. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Theres nothing wrong with having some negative, there will always be negative thinkers here and there...but when its all over the place and people constantly bashing the game and cursing Ubi, it gets ridiculous.

simulacra
05-24-2007, 03:50 PM
So, ONLY dark/light is gameplay?
This is getting beyond ridiculous, if this "cipher complex" is so great, why dont you scurry along over to their forum and start posting there instead.

Just wait and see, and stop being so incessantly negative, why is the dark so important?
The crowd really IS the new shadows, the same rules will apply there as in the dark, the difference is that the crowd moves
You wanna get past a guard, well, pull the hood up and walk on the opposite side of a group of civvies going the same way, PRESTO, you have stealthily gotten past a guard...

Just because you CAN get out of tight spots with more force than used in earlier games doesn't mean you HAVE to.

scworld
05-24-2007, 03:59 PM
The dark is important because 99.999999% of all games are NOT using it. Only Thief. SC lost its main selling piont: being different.

And to add to that: you arent a cool covert spy, but you can walk around like GTA! (again, lost its selling point).

Ghost477
05-24-2007, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by braiog:
I'd usually agree with that, but...

SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)
Funny that you say that, because the reason it got bad reviews in most sites is because the game hardly changed. What? You actually think they hated the Double Agent concept? No, they hated the fact that the Double Agent concept hardly changed the game. Stick to your opinion, hate Splinter Cell Conviction all you want. ***** all you want, in the end... You know you'll buy the game. If not, why even bother posting in these forums? Well unless you suffer from ADD disorder.

Don't get me wrong, all i'm saying is that whining about something you KNOW won't change... Well, doesn't help at all. You're just accomplishing in annoying others. Yes, go ahead, quote me and save your dignity. But keep in mind, you'll either buy this game or you won't. Either way, you know that complaining about it won't help ( You said it yourself, "Ubisoft doesn't give a **** about their consumers". Do you think complaining about it will make them listen to you?).

braiog
05-24-2007, 04:31 PM
Ghost477, it's VERY obvious to me by your post that you don't have the intellect to really put together a post with any kind of valid points in it or to even address someone respectfully - I hope you don't expect people to do likewise for you, otherwise you have a LOT of growing up to do.

Like I prefaced, from a PC Gamer standpoint, the game failed due to mostly technical reasons. Articles explained how difficult it was to install the game, how poor it ran, how often it crashed to desktop, and the lack of patching.

Sites gave it a 2.5/5 star rating, 60%, etc. It's the worst rated Splinter Cell to date - there's no denying that. I don't recall them saying they cared that Sam was no longer using shadows and previous gameplay mechanics.

Heck, I think that if the game played as nicely and stable as Chaos Theory, I probably would have given SCDA's SP campaign a 7.0-8.2, which is more than worth my time and money. But it doesn't, so I didn't.

braiog
05-24-2007, 04:34 PM
Oh, and on the topic of "Whining gets you no-where", aside from your completely incorrect assessment that it is a whine, you may fail to recall that the community stood up and demanded that SvM be added to the PC platform as well in DA.

And thanks to the Community Managers, that got through to them. So that one example there blows your thinking out of the water. If you are happy with the status quo, that's fine - but name-calling those who want progress than regress is immature and hypocritical.

Sorry for the double post.

Ghost477
05-24-2007, 05:05 PM
First of all, i do agree that the PC version sucks. I was referring to the Xbox 360 version.

Secondly, i never mentioned multiplayer, because that's not what this is about.

Thirdly, it's kinda hard to adress someone respectfully when they start to bash something you love. And especially when they start lying to themselves and calling it an opinion. The definition of opinion: "a personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty". When you bash SCC, you say it in a matter of fact tone. Weren't you the one who claimed that this game would fail? According to the dictionary, that's not an opinion.

The Xbox 360 version got good reviews. But not good enough, mostly because they hardly changed much in the game. If what i'm saying is not true, then why does the majority here love the way SCC is shaping up to be?

You respect our feelings about how WE fell about the game, then we'll respect yours. You must give respect in order to earn. Give me a reason to respect you.

P.S
There is a saying: "Those who so blatantly call others a hypocrite, he himself is one".

psyichic
05-24-2007, 05:45 PM
Metacritic has Xbox360 review of DA at 85. It was only surpassed by the original Xbox version which scored an 89. Chaos Theory got a score of 92 for the PC on metacritic and the Xbox version got a 95.

Thus CT got better reviews then DA. Oh and Ghost477 something tells me you where he before under the name Chaos477 or something near that right? Haven't grown up much in about a year have ya?

Anyways onto the topic of the game. They are changing the most basic formula of Splinter Cell. That is not a good idea. It is related to as a stealth game and of course I am sure I will hear the argument "It is still stealth!" Im sorry but when you begin to add animations for throwing chairs and boxing with people in the screet it stikes me as an Assassin's Creed lookalike.

They could have gone down the older Spinter Cell path with new additions such as infiltrating your objective using crowd dynamics and added some new CQB moves to spice it up.

Then you can add new animations for stealth. Make it possible to even more interesting moves and the like. But changing the core is a bad move. Regardless. This is basically taking a brand new game entirely, slapping the Splinter Cell logo on it, and hoping it can be carried by it's name and not it's own gameplay.

Mind everyone that this time I feel no attachment to the series. I am here because I simply love to watch people squirm defending a game pointlessly. I have given up On Ubisoft's competence entirely. The story is the same with DA. Vets say the new direction is bad, new people and the mods say it is good. Last I checked DA didn't do as well as it's predecessors and it's MP insulted the bandwidth it even used.

I am just here to watch a carbon copy of DA unfold again. People blindly defending a new style of play only to watch it burn. Oh and yes I am a sick and twisted *******.

MKCC14
05-24-2007, 06:06 PM
Well SCDA was that bad from what i played. Both 360 and xbox versions. They both had their good and bad parts. So i wasnt screwed over like most of people people are saying(unless you're talking about the PC version). It probably wasnt as good as SCCT from what people are saying but it got good reviews. I dont think getting a review of score between 8-9/10 is bad. That is a pretty good game, you people make it sound like it got 4/10 and 5/10.

Once the game is fun and interesting, its a buy.

braiog
05-24-2007, 09:50 PM
Ghost, I've already determined I don't want respect from you. If you fail to mention PC/XB360, don't take offense when someone misinterprets you. You're as much at fault as the other. This is an ambiguous forum when it comes to platform.

You need to disassociate yourself with the game if you're taking offense when someone expresses their dislike of it. There's no need, especially logically, that you should "come to arms" and defend it. The problem is, you transfer the attack the person made on the game as an attack on you. If someone doesn't like what you like, why be insecure to the point where you need to rally to it's aid?

You're asking me to respect your opinion - but how can I? You disrespectfully call someone's opinion "*****ing" (probably again because you took it as an attack on you) and you want ME to respect YOU? That's just not going to happen if you think insulting someone is justified one way or another.

It's fine if you want to live your life by a saying (even though after reading it 4x over it makes no sense. Calling someone a hypocrite does not make them one. The act of doing what you tell others shouldn't be done, or vice versa is moreso along the lines of hypocrisy.

You like sayings, fine, I got a fortune cookie of one for ya. "It is better to be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." Maybe respect the fact that I don't care for the game (as it stands) and don't call it *****ing, and I'll see if I can then give back the respect you're looking to get from me.

Jackie Fiest
05-24-2007, 10:26 PM
Ghost and braiog,

Being upset with the state of the game or not liking each other in no way makes it ok to bypass the word filter. If you two can't get along, please avoid communicating with each other.

Gummy-Pants
05-25-2007, 01:03 AM
I still love playing CT now and again, but the same missions get boring, I tried to like DA, I really did, but the liking stopped as soon as I completed the first level (for those who do not know, the first mission still embraces the old-fashioned sneaking style, complete with the getup). If only the game was a bit moddable so the community can create their own single/co-op missions, this wouldn't bother us at all. In fact I'd say: Bring it on, we got CT to mod... But we can't.

But Ubi is obviously trying something new here. When we wanted SvM back so badly, what happened? The mode still got ruined according to most. I liked it (with the exception of the lack of lobby, so you will get sling shot around the globe) So it might've as well just been SvS, since it would be a nice diversion. People went back to CT anyway. I bought the old-gen version of DA as well and SvS wasn't that bad... It's just that playing it with a controller's bad.

So instead of hating, try to embrace what it once was. If Ubi is really gonna make it old fashioned-esque, would we like it? Because we know something will change. We can only wait to hope Sam gets back to Third Echelon in the future, to sneak around private buildings and throwing cans into unsuspecting guards' heads.

marinius
05-25-2007, 01:15 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if these are the kinds of "discussions" that we'll have going on in these forums until the game is released, months and months of people that for some reason are very enthusiastic about Conviction basically ordering all SC-vets who are upset that Splinter Cell is no longer Splinter Cell to shut up and leave the forums...?

SC1 is my all time favourite game, I'm a huge fan of the first three SC-games, and I liked the xbox-version of DA. Now, I'm looking forward to Conviction, looks like a fun game. I just wish Ubisoft had given it a different name with a different protagonist. This just to state that I'm not "bashing" the game or "whining" about it. I'll buy it, play it and probably enjoy it.

The thing that really surprises me about the comments flying around the forum is the fact that some people seem unable to comprehend that a lot of us SC-vets are unhappy about losing the elements of Splinter Cell that were to us what that game was all about. That shouldn't be too hard to understand really. There certainly is no call for people to tell us we shouldn't be feeling that way. The new game play with the so-called social stealth might be refreshing and entertaining, but that term itself negates the original definition of what a splinter cell is and how he operates. The fact that we're yet again playing as Sam Fisher doesn't make the new game a Splinter Cell game, apart from the fact that that's what Ubi tells ut it is. If you wanna remove the core elemets of a game franchise, feel free to do so, but then be good enough to alter its title as well.

Oh, and I'm not under the illusion that this little piece of honest expression is gonna do anything to stop the incessant slamming of us SC-purists...

simulacra
05-25-2007, 03:56 AM
Well, I'm ok with a name change, I kinda like 'The Sam Fisher Conviction' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But I cannot, and probably never will understand why the dark/light element is SO much more "splinter cell" than having sam do covert stuff as stealthily as possible, albeit a bit less invisible as in previous games.
Would you then say that a new dark/light game featuring a totally new hero, new organisation and new gadgets could be called splinter cell?
no sam, no thirde echelon no iconic goggles?

Are these 'pillars of value' more important than anything else?, can a splinter cell game really only be defined by having dark/light-gameplay?
In a way it seems more than a religion than a fanbase, there are a few different commandments that MUST be present, no matter anything else, break even one of those and it's not splinter cell anymore.
Well, that's your conviction (teehee), but not mine, I think that sc can be defined in other ways.

marinius
05-25-2007, 05:09 AM
I'm not saying the dark/light element found in Splinter Cell is more authentic than some other forms of stealth in terms of the work a splinter cell would be doing. The art of going unnoticed can be performed in different ways. I'm saying dark/light-stealth play defined the Splinter Cell experience and with that gone, players like myself will lose the SC-feel when playing the new game.

What I'm saying is no longer Splinter Cell is the fact that the character of Sam Fisher no longer fits the description that was given to us of what being a splinter cell means. He is in fact an ex-splinter cell.

And yes, a new character operating for a different organisation would still be a valid splinter cell in my opinion. The concept of a splinter cell doesn't begin an end with Sam Fisher.

As for religion....well, that's just cheap. These days nothing is easier than branding somebody else a fanatic, which is what you're basically doing. It's beneath you simulacra.

simulacra
05-25-2007, 07:30 AM
I wouldn't say I called anyone a fanatic, but you yourself used the word "purists" in a way that which might suggest a "pure" form of splinter cell.
And it's not really possible to change the name since that would mean that ubi would have to present a whole new franchise etc.

And even IF they would use another name these conversations would still carry on, in much the same tone, be it from a different disposition. But it would still be alot of "SC-purists" complaining about the "other game" stealing sam fisher etc etc etc.
So what would be the point of doing anything of the sort?

I remember the mini version of these discussions when the shotgun in CT was presented, a whole lot of whine about it not being stealthy, and I never understand what that was really about?
To me that seemed more like small children in a sandbox crying about not having the red bucket in a way ("I want it this way, and I'll cry until I get it") I cant really find another analogy for it.

This time it's different since the changes are bigger, but the subjective definition of what SC "is" still seems to be the foremost notion.
Not many seems to be taking a more objective view of the changes.
The thing I'm saying is that most posts that are negative about SCC are based on feeling and are so subjective that they in no way can be refuted, no matter how much info the devs'll provide, no matter how many reasons are presented, the feeling still goes above all.
and if that person feels like he was stripped of "his" splinter cell nothig can be fix it, apart from ubi ditching conviction and start doing CT2 instead, which isn't happening either.

I cant say that I'm totally objective either since I feel really psyched about a more IMO realistic spy game, with more of a pragmatic approach towards solving problems and not having a set path with a set methodology.

marinius
05-25-2007, 12:16 PM
I could argue that a thing by definition is most pure in its original form, thus making it relevant to speak of SCC deviating from the purer form of Splinter Cell.

Surely they could have started a new franchise with a new name, they're doing that with AC these days. The reason why they're not doing it with SC is that the name sells too much to drop it. And I don't think anybody would have complained about them using Sam Fisher, because there would be no reason to use his name; a new franchise, brand new gameplay and a new hero - that would've been the way for Ubi to go.

"I cant say that I'm totally objective either since I feel really psyched about a more IMO realistic spy game, with more of a pragmatic approach towards solving problems and not having a set path with a set methodology."

I'm glad you added that last part sim, nobody here is in a position to be objective, and why should we be? People who are psyched about the new direction of SC are feeling every bit as much as people who are sceptical. The latter aren't any more emotional about it than the former. You'll get your new spy game sim, just like you want, but definitely not another Splinter Cell game.

Ghost477
05-25-2007, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by psyichic:
Metacritic has Xbox360 review of DA at 85. It was only surpassed by the original Xbox version which scored an 89. Chaos Theory got a score of 92 for the PC on metacritic and the Xbox version got a 95.

Thus CT got better reviews then DA. Oh and Ghost477 something tells me you where he before under the name Chaos477 or something near that right? Haven't grown up much in about a year have ya?

Said by the person who can't tell the difference between "where he" and "were here". Oh, not to mention "near", when it should be "like". Insulting me just because i don't agree with all of those who think this game would suck... Well, what makes you any different than me? The fact that you believe you're right? Honestly, believe what you want. Just don't drag us into this.

I believe this game will turn out to be great. No... Better than great. Amazing. Bash me all you want, but most support my opinion about the game.

Btw, those statistics you used there just supports the fact that Double Agent wasn't as good as Chaos Theory, because Chaos Theory was something new and Double Agent's gameplay concept was just like Chaos Theory, but more. In other words, you proved my point.

@Jackie: Yes boss. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

P.S
I'll respect Jackie's order and will no further comment on your or Braiog's post.

osborne10
05-26-2007, 08:44 PM
i think it will do good, and might bring more fans to the series,because of it's new style.i think the already SC fans will like it to if they give it a chance,and not like rebel against it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ROLNIK
05-26-2007, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by osborne10:
i think it will do good, and might bring more fans to the series,because of it's new style.i think the already SC fans will like it to if they give it a chance,and not like rebel against it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
I don't like the change, but I will buy it
1. I want to see what happens with fisher
2. I have all SC's - can't miss that one
3. It's a Splinter Cell...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

BIGZFOOT
05-27-2007, 12:32 PM
[/QUOTE]
That reply wasn't directed at you. Haha. I was just speaking to folks in general here. Sorry. Peace and love.[/QUOTE]

Shutup, ya hippie!

Chinese_Bookey
05-27-2007, 12:33 PM
C'mon, don't be like that. Let's make love to each other...

Ghost477
05-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
C'mon, don't be like that. Let's make love to each other... Creepy... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

rogerwilco99
05-27-2007, 08:47 PM
I have an observation. Call it a bit of social commentary if you will.

Why is it that people so often resort to hyperbole to try to make a point? Why do we have to call it "hate" when someone else says they don't like something. Isn't there anything between loving something and hating it? Is it just a way to try to polarize an issue?

I sometimes think that "hate" is the most over-used word of the last 20 years. Far too much of what is said about what someone else says refers to "hate" speech.

Can't one person tell another person that the idea they just told them about is stupid without being accused of "hate" speech or of "hating"

It _IS_ possible to dislike something or someone without hating them. It's also possible to like something without loving it. We have other words to describe the various levels of like/dislike in between, too. But they all get lost in the hyperbole about "hate".

Now, having said that. I don't _hate_ the new gameplay as it has been described in Conviction (I'm not going to call it Splinter Cell). I just don't like it as described. I don't think it makes sense. And I don't think I'll like that kind of game play. If I did, I'd already play Hitman (and I don't).

I _AM_ willing to wait to see what comes out before I make my mind up completely. I might like it. I might dislike it. I might be ambivalent about it. But those who are in favor these changes should also, I think, wait before they jump on the band wagon.

The proof, they say, is in the pudding. I'm going to wait until it's cooked before I make a final decision about whether I am willing to accept it.

Knot3D
05-27-2007, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by rogerwilco99:
I have an observation. Call it a bit of social commentary if you will.

Why is it that people so often resort to hyperbole to try to make a point? Why do we have to call it "hate" when someone else says they don't like something. Isn't there anything between loving something and hating it? Is it just a way to try to polarize an issue?

I sometimes think that "hate" is the most over-used word of the last 20 years. Far too much of what is said about what someone else says refers to "hate" speech.

Can't one person tell another person that the idea they just told them about is stupid without being accused of "hate" speech or of "hating"

It _IS_ possible to dislike something or someone without hating them. It's also possible to like something without loving it. We have other words to describe the various levels of like/dislike in between, too. But they all get lost in the hyperbole about "hate".

Now, having said that. I don't _hate_ the new gameplay as it has been described in Conviction (I'm not going to call it Splinter Cell). I just don't like it as described. I don't think it makes sense. And I don't think I'll like that kind of game play. If I did, I'd already play Hitman (and I don't).



A great post there, Roger http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Aside from true SC, I like Hitman & MGS alot, and i'm really hyped about Assassin's Creed.

With that fact in mind, it is somewhat sad to see SC's core altered, not for the sake of innovation - because that could have been done using Chaos Theory as blueprint -but we now see genre bleedover to take more audience margins.

Without resorting to such blending, the franchise could have expanded installed base as well, but the CEO's & stockholder will try to make gamers believe otherwise.

Don't be their tool, i'd say.

braiog
05-29-2007, 03:33 PM
Wait a tic, Jackie, I'm confused.

Is it ok to curse and let the word filter ***** the word out. But it's not ok to bypass the filter by using different symbols and what not so the filtered word is discernible. Right?

Cause the latter, ok, I can see that as bad. That's bypassing the filter. But the former.... that's freedom of speech!....er.... freedom of type!

What? Where is freedom of type guaranteed in the constitution? Lemme check......

Knot3D
05-29-2007, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by braiog:
Wait a tic, Jackie, I'm confused.

Is it ok to curse and let the word filter ***** the word out. But it's not ok to bypass the filter by using different symbols and what not so the filtered word is discernible. Right?

Cause the latter, ok, I can see that as bad. That's bypassing the filter. But the former.... that's freedom of speech!....er.... freedom of type!

What? Where is freedom of type guaranteed in the constitution? Lemme check......

We are 'convicted', remember ? No more 5th Freedom for you anymore ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Lil Proximo7
05-29-2007, 03:50 PM
THe forums are like america, sensitve and can't use "harsh" wording or someone's feelings will be hurt or feel offended...


wat have we came to be?..i wont answer that, it'll break the Terms...
lol

marinius
05-30-2007, 01:35 AM
Well, you don't really need to use harsh language to make your point, do you? In fact, a well put and thought out argument excludes the use of offensive language in my opinion.

That said, the extreme sensitivity toward offensive language and, say, fairly innocent nudity, that exists within the mainstream media in the US is sometimes rather baffling for many Europeans (a case in point: Janet Jackson at Superbowl a couple of years back...that went right over my head, and a lot of fellow Europeans as well) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

Release_15
05-30-2007, 05:14 PM
I thought the media response was amusing.
I hear the TV world talks about our current time like the 'Post-Janet Jackson era'.

MadamTampini
05-30-2007, 10:02 PM
"Give it a chance!"

How many times did we hear that about DA? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif After the huge let down, why should people give SC: C a chance?

This isn't my point of view (I am definitely going to be buying the game), but after being let down so bad by SC: DA (which is how many consumers felt), why should they give the next installment a chance?

marinius
05-31-2007, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by Release_15:
I thought the media response was amusing.
I hear the TV world talks about our current time like the 'Post-Janet Jackson era'.

Amusing, for sure, but still...to think that a partially nude female breast can cause that kind of commotion is somewhat disturbing to me.

Release_15
05-31-2007, 01:22 PM
How many times did we hear that about DA? After the huge let down, why should people give SC: C a chance?
Seriously, what's so awful about DA (PC version excluded)?
I loved the Xbox and 360 versions, loved the JBA HQ missions (especially on 360), and even though it wasn't a major departure from the standard SC gameplay, I greatly enjoyed the trust system and its implications.
I hear so many people complaining about both Conviction and DA, even though DA sported the old-school SC gameplay. It seems like they just want Chaos Theory 2, without any tangible next-gen innovations...

uniop
07-11-2007, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by drunkrepublican:
Remember the movie Jaws? Wasn't it great? Remember Jaws 2? Wasn't it pretty good? Remember Jaws 3...it...sucked.
The first two Spider-man movies were good. The third...was ok..

Why? After a couple of times, the same idea tends to get kind of old. I come to the forums hoping to discuss with fellow players how they're looking forward to ConViction, and there's nothing but whining! Remember E3 2001? Halo got nothing but bad rep..People say the graphics were subpar, the gameplay wasn't varied enough, and the framerate wasn't stable. Then when they gave it a chance, they hailed it as one of the greatest shooters of all time.


It sounds to me like you just come here to complain. If that's the case, a multinational video game company is not going to change a game in the middle of the development process to accomadate a couple of upset fans. Instead of flooding the forums with nothing but why you feel the game is going to be terrible, why not go to another forum for a game you like, and let all of us who are anticipating conViction have the forum here to discuss it instead of having the forum cluttered with negative posts. I think it looks awseome and its gonna be 1 of my games theat im gettin nxt (im gonna get free running, then assassins creed and then conViction, and some cheap games aswell).
double agent was gud aswell

StealthShottz
07-13-2007, 04:18 AM
I gave DA a chance. I knew that it wasn't a good idea with all of the change, and I was right. Worst SC in series according to reviews and the community ( not all of the community )

I tried to play MP the other day on it. Here is exactly what happened:

I hadn't touched the disc in months.
I cleaned the disc's dust off with a soft cloth.
I put in the disc and started to search for games.
I joined about 4 - 5 matches and it said " host has ended session " when the host did not end the session at all.
I finally got into a game as a merc on boss house.
I tried to use a grappling hook and I got stuck in some stupid animation where I jump up and down for about 2 minutes.
After that was over, I was disconnected from the session again.
I joined yet another game and I was disconnected, then my disc was unreadable.

I just about threw the disc out of the window. I checked my internet ping and it was perfect, no problems. THat is the kind of C R A P that happens to a LOT of the people who gave it a chance.

Since I gave DA a chance and it failed so miserably, I sure as hell won't give Convictions a chance. Don't get your hopes up people...

EskimoBob32
07-13-2007, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by MadamTampini:
"Give it a chance!"

How many times did we hear that about DA? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif After the huge let down, why should people give SC: C a chance?

This isn't my point of view (I am definitely going to be buying the game), but after being let down so bad by SC: DA (which is how many consumers felt), why should they give the next installment a chance?
Thankyou. I didn't think our argument was that hard to see, but no one would seem to get it! I do realise you said this a month and a half ago by the way...

Of course, there's always the fact that we miss SC. Not the name, the gameplay. Will people start understanding that, too...?

MKCC14
07-13-2007, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MadamTampini:
"Give it a chance!"

How many times did we hear that about DA? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif After the huge let down, why should people give SC: C a chance?

This isn't my point of view (I am definitely going to be buying the game), but after being let down so bad by SC: DA (which is how many consumers felt), why should they give the next installment a chance?
Thankyou. I didn't think our argument was that hard to see, but no one would seem to get it! I do realise you said this a month and a half ago by the way...

Of course, there's always the fact that we miss SC. Not the name, the gameplay. Will people start understanding that, too...? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess you have to be lucky and get one of the decent discs that some people got and the game works fine.

EskimoBob32
07-13-2007, 08:33 PM
Oh, my copy of the game worked fine, if you can call it that. I didn't experience too many bugs. The letdown I speak of is the gameplay, the plot, the use of recycled sounds from CT and the overall lazy attitude of Shanghai in creating a second rate game. Obviously you disagree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ROLNIK
07-13-2007, 08:35 PM
Why the hate? Give it a chance!
no

miniferral
07-15-2007, 06:45 AM
hey, im a huge fan of the splinter cell series, and in my opinion this game will be great, its a big change from splinter cell chaos theory...but thats not a bad thing...the only thing that i think will be bad about conviction ( from what i have gathered ), is the goggles will not have ANY part in the new game...thats not good, but not bad either...i dunno why the 2nd game got good reviews ( pandora tomorrow ) because i thought it was a terrible game, and i dont know why double agent got terrible reviews...it wasnt THAT bad.

in all, i think splinter cell conviction will be an AWESOME game

Tidenburg
07-15-2007, 08:35 AM
the only thing that i think will be bad about conviction ( from what i have gathered ), is the goggles will not have ANY part in the new game...thats not good, but not bad either.
You sir, make no sense.

ROLNIK
07-15-2007, 10:58 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

uniop
07-15-2007, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by jasiek.rolnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why the hate? Give it a chance!
no </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
i think peps should give it a chance cause how can u say its crab when u aint even played it yet ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

Tidenburg
07-15-2007, 12:50 PM
How can you say its good when you haven't even played it yet? Huh?

and just for reference I have never said SC:C is a "crab" I know its a video game. :P

marinius
07-15-2007, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Tidenburg:
How can you say its good when you haven't even played it yet? Huh?

and just for reference I have never said SC:C is a "crab" I know its a video game. :P

I believe I might have stated somewhere that it is in fact a lobster, but I'm not sure...

MKCC14
07-15-2007, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Tidenburg:
How can you say its good when you haven't even played it yet? Huh?

and just for reference I have never said SC:C is a "crab" I know its a video game. :P
He didnt say its good, hes saying give it a chance.

EskimoBob32
07-15-2007, 06:57 PM
I know a lot of people aren't giving the game a chance not because they think it looks bad, but just out of protest. Protest of how badly Ubi stuffed up DA, protest of Ubi taking a new direction when they didn't need to, and I'm sure many people have no desire to make Ubi richer when they have already proved they have no problem with screwing us over.

stavros_27
07-15-2007, 09:54 PM
"SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)"

Out of curiosity...where did you get the sales figures from?

Edit: Your mention that DA had horrible reviews. However, the light+shadow version of the game (current gen) got an overall rating similar to the current gen version. The main difference that I see between the current gen and a game like CT was that DA has a much more interesting premise and story. Yet the game was still rated horribly, by your standards.

StealthShottz
07-15-2007, 10:31 PM
Ummm, not just by his standards.

ROLNIK
07-15-2007, 10:52 PM
"SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)"

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif oh well - their loss

StealthShottz
07-16-2007, 12:13 AM
Too bad it is also our loss also. We got cheesed on the next gen SC games.

EskimoBob32
07-16-2007, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by stavros_27:
"SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)"

Out of curiosity...where did you get the sales figures from?

Edit: Your mention that DA had horrible reviews. However, the light+shadow version of the game (current gen) got an overall rating similar to the current gen version. The main difference that I see between the current gen and a game like CT was that DA has a much more interesting premise and story. Yet the game was still rated horribly, by your standards.
I think when people call DA "horrible" they are referring for the most part to the 360 version. I haven't played the current gen version but I have heard it is quite a good game. It actually apparently has a story, something which the 360/PC version was lacking. The potential interest in the double agent plot was lost when they did an extremely poor job of it. And with that gone, the rest of the plot is, in my opinion, boring.

MKCC14
07-16-2007, 06:50 AM
SCDA(xbox) was almost just as good as SCCT...where did these horrible reviews come from?

Xbox360 reviews:

1. GT - 8.9
2. IGN - 9.0
3. GS - 8.5
4. OXM - 9.0
5. GI - 9.0
6. GZ - 9.2

The game didnt get less than an 8, which means the game is impressive and you should buy it. Its less than all the other SC games, but it still didnt get horrible reviews.

StealthShottz
07-16-2007, 07:23 AM
A lot of those companies/magazines give ratings from people who have maybe played the game once. IF they had played all of the other SC's, and were fans of them, then they would for the most part give bad reviews. But since DA is an okay game by itself, it got good reviews. THe game should have been reviewed in comparison to previous games.

I still haven't played current gen version yet but I am thinking about finding a copy out there. I heard that they stopped producing copies of it so I guess I will find a used one.

MKCC14
07-16-2007, 07:43 AM
What you just said, IMO it looks like you are just trying in any way to make SCDA look like a very bad game in every way. When it actually wasnt. Every game has problems you know.

IGN has rated every single SC game, even the handheld versions.
Game Informer has also rated all of them.
Gamespot has rated all the SC games.
OXM has rated I think 2 of them(SCCT and SCDA).
GameTrailers has rated almost all of them.
I dont know about Gamezone.

But from what I just said typed it seemed that the reviews of SCDA from the sites that I posted they have indeed reviewed the other games.

I dont know if it was the same person that reviewed all the games, but that is like for almost every game...not the same people review the same game everytime.

StealthShottz
07-16-2007, 07:52 AM
Exactly, therefore you could get someone new to the series doing the reviews. You see this kind of thing all of the time. You see in a lot of previews or reviews, the reviewer says that something is a new feature or something should have been in the game that doesn't work with the series. I remember in one preview trailer for Double Agent the guy said that he wished that you could drive and explode the trucks in Kinshasa or hijack a tank in it! If that doesn't make you believe he was a noob to the series then I don't know what will.

Oh yes, another REVIEW of a game. Someone said that the knife was a cool NEW feature to DA. I almost pissed my pants, he shouldn't have been reviewing the game! And yes he did give it a high score.

Vets of the games don't always review them, it is usually just a random guy that raised his hand.

MKCC14
07-16-2007, 08:12 AM
It still doesnt say that they would give the other games bad reviews. But, they still didnt get bad reviews at all. If it was just as bad as people say it is it would have gotten a very low score. Bad games get low scores...and it seems SCDA just was not one of them.

Reviews do not compare sequels to the originals. They are there to tell you if the game is good or not.

StealthShottz
07-16-2007, 09:10 AM
You are proving me right here MKCC. It is a good game on its own but is it a good game compared to the better games from the past? The reviewers don't know that because they are noobs to the series. And hardly ever do games get scores based on their multiplayer as well. If the reviewer played the games before, and then wasn't one of the lucky few who didn't have lag issues, and he was rating it with MP included, then it would have revieved a lower rating.

Most people do believe that Halo 1 was better than Halo 2, even bungie does! But hey, every reviewer out there gave halo 2 a bigger score. It is because they are noobs to the series most of the time. Plain and simple, you can't go by reviews of the game.

MKCC14
07-16-2007, 09:19 AM
You say its a good game, but some people here portray the game as the **** of the century. So where does all of this speculation comes from that the game didnt sell well and it failed? Also, horrible reviews....like I said before, some of you are trying to make SCDA look like it was the worst game to ever come out. It is their own opinion if they liked the game or not, but when referring to other people that they say it was a bad game too and it actually wasnt to them...whats up with that?

StealthShottz
07-16-2007, 09:43 AM
I never said it didn't sell well. It did, not as well as the others but it did sell a lot, that reason is because it is called " SPlinter Cell Double Agent" not " Double Agent " People didn't ever say " I hate CT it sucks, it is too laggy to play, the gameplay sucks, the story sucks " and on and on. Why did that only happen for DA on the most part? It is because they ****** up on DA and didn't make it as good as it could have been.

BurningDeath.
07-16-2007, 10:46 AM
Just look at gamerankings when it comes to such discussions:

SCDA: 81.3%
SCCT: 91.5%

Heimdall1968
07-16-2007, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by braiog:
I'd usually agree with that, but...

SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)

It's a bit late to reply to this but I was reading down the thread and wanted to reply to the source.

SCDA did receive some horrible reviews, but mixed-up with a few good ones. The lack of polishing is probably what prevented them from getting very good sales.

They got less and less sales with each iteration, with the exception of Double Agent.

In terms of sales (in dollars), it is superior to CT. On top of that, it was made by a studio (Shanghai) that probably cost them a fraction in development costs. From a business POV, CT was probably a failure compared to Double Agent.

@stavros_27: Sale numbers are available from NPD Research for North America.

Chinese_Bookey
07-16-2007, 12:41 PM
DA on Xbox/PS2 blows just as much as it does on 360. It's boring as feck. :/

stavros_27
07-16-2007, 06:06 PM
It seems like the people condemning Double Agent are the ones who are throwing out lies about the game to make it seem worse than it is. It's one thing to bash a game...but it's pretty low to make things up about it try to help your points.

stavros_27
07-16-2007, 06:07 PM
Chinese Bookey...

Wasn't the current gen version the type of game that you guys wanted anyway? If that game was boring, who is to say that another installment with the same premise would be any less boring?

StealthShottz
07-16-2007, 06:16 PM
Ummm, me disconnecting from 5 games in a row with a perfect connection isn't a lie. Then getting into a game and getting stuck in an animation for 2 minutes. Then getting disconnected some more with NO problems with your internet isn't a lie, it happens to countless people. That is why the amount of people online are countable on your fingers.

ROLNIK
07-16-2007, 06:40 PM
old gen DA's story was better, but it looked worse than CT even thou it was relased 1-2 yrs later

Here's a diagram that expresses my opinion about each SC

SC1 > SCCT > SCDA(current) = SCPT > SCDA(next gen)

DA(360) had some very cool moments, the story wasn't as good as rest.

MKCC14
07-16-2007, 07:43 PM
Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
DA on Xbox/PS2 blows just as much as it does on 360. It's boring as feck. :/
Now explain that to me. It had almost everything you wanted in a SC game. It had all night missions that you wanted, had the knife, gadgets, cool moves, etc. Basically everything SCCT but the graphics was not as good as SCCT.

It had co-op mode with 15 missions and a decent SvS mode. How was it bad to you? I found it a great experience and had a great story.

stavros_27
07-16-2007, 08:14 PM
Ummm, me disconnecting from 5 games in a row with a perfect connection isn't a lie. Then getting into a game and getting stuck in an animation for 2 minutes. Then getting disconnected some more with NO problems with your internet isn't a lie, it happens to countless people. That is why the amount of people online are countable on your fingers.

Sorry..I was talking more along the lines of the people who claimed it had very poor sales and horrible reviews, and the guy who said that it had around 81% average on gamerankings, among other bogus claims. I didn't play any multi so I can't speak for any issues with that. I found the singleplayer experience to be a step up from the previous versions.

EskimoBob32
07-17-2007, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
It still doesnt say that they would give the other games bad reviews. But, they still didnt get bad reviews at all. If it was just as bad as people say it is it would have gotten a very low score. Bad games get low scores...and it seems SCDA just was not one of them.

Reviews do not compare sequels to the originals. They are there to tell you if the game is good or not.
You say that as though that makes it perfectly alright that it got lower reviews. If they are reviewing it based on its own merit, then they can't use the 'it's the same old thing as last time' argument that you people continually use. In that case, it should be the same or even a higher score, as it incoporated new features and improved graphics. But it got a lower score. Why? Because the plot was bad, the new features were stupid and poorly implemented and it was just not that enjoyable? Probably. Don't forget that most reviewers didn't take into account the MASSIVE amount of bugs that DA had, or the subpar multiplayer it included. If I took DA as a game in its own right, separate from the rest of the series, it would be a decent game if you could ignore the bugs. But as a member of SC series, it has a name to live up to. And it failed to live up to that name entirely.

Vth_F_Smith_
07-17-2007, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
It had co-op mode with 15 missions and a decent SvS mode. How was it bad to you? I found it a great experience and had a great story. I loved the coop especially since it was very well tied into the single player plot although a few more interactions with the single player would have been nice in my opinion. Not just creating the chaos but also to actually see how your actions are influencing the single player storyline would have been nice. For example you could have received a message from Lambert telling you that Sam is close to your location and then your partner could have tapped into the surveilance cameras showing Sam + Jamie sneaking by. Or more dialogue based interactions like the one in Seoul (SCCT). It was simply excellent to hear Sam talking in the coop and to hear the coop spies talking to Sam in the single player while they were on the same location! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BurningDeath.
07-17-2007, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by stavros_27:
Sorry..I was talking more along the lines of the people who claimed it had very poor sales and horrible reviews, and the guy who said that it had around 81% average on gamerankings,
Yeah,...bogus...of course...lolnub http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/926927.asp?q=splinter%20cell)

Vth_F_Smith_
07-17-2007, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by BurningDeath.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stavros_27:
Sorry..I was talking more along the lines of the people who claimed it had very poor sales and horrible reviews, and the guy who said that it had around 81% average on gamerankings,
Yeah,...bogus...of course...lolnub http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/926927.asp?q=splinter%20cell) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well there's more than just a PC version (http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/926929.asp?q=Tom%20Clancys%20Splinter%20Cell%20Dou ble%20Agent) out there.

BurningDeath.
07-17-2007, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Vth_F_Smith_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BurningDeath.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stavros_27:
Sorry..I was talking more along the lines of the people who claimed it had very poor sales and horrible reviews, and the guy who said that it had around 81% average on gamerankings,
Yeah,...bogus...of course...lolnub http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/926927.asp?q=splinter%20cell) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well there's more than just a PC version (http://gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/926929.asp?q=Tom%20Clancys%20Splinter%20Cell%20Dou ble%20Agent) out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know that you know that I know that the last-gen version were better, but PC is my platform of interest. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chinese_Bookey
07-17-2007, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chinese_Bookey:
DA on Xbox/PS2 blows just as much as it does on 360. It's boring as feck. :/
Now explain that to me. It had almost everything you wanted in a SC game. It had all night missions that you wanted, had the knife, gadgets, cool moves, etc. Basically everything SCCT but the graphics was not as good as SCCT.

It had co-op mode with 15 missions and a decent SvS mode. How was it bad to you? I found it a great experience and had a great story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please... excluding the night missions, all that stuff you listed is merely garnish, a side dish. Regardless, even the shadows couldn't save this crud from being an intolerable mess. I wanted the atmosphere back from the previous games. I wanted an engaging, original storyline and fascinating missions in exotic and creative locations. I never wanted another CT, and I still don't. Jesus! Ughness.

It was empty and mediocre. There was no excitement, no immersion, no memorable lines or situations. No satisfaction from killing terrorists. It was like killing "just some people." It was tiring, depressing, and straightforward. All the characters were as though cardboard boxes with tongues. I simply couldn't care less about blowing up 2,000 people on a boat or who said what now and killed this and that, and I certainly couldn't care less for Enrica, whom we didn't even get to know (same can be said about all the characters). I didn't even care for Sarah dying so abruptly, because in the end, her death was in vain and totally uncalled for. Nicely done.

The whole "conclusion" with Emile was dumb and silly. The previous games never had any of that generic, good-guy-vs-bad-guy shiyet in them. In CT, Shetland just caught a bullet between the eyes after a brief chat. It was enough and to the point. No bald-guy-with-a-gun-shooting-at-you-while-you-duck-behind-objects-and-try-to-get-from-point-A-to-point-B-alive garbage needed. "You're right, Doug. I wouldn't shoot an old friend."

As for the co-op and the other junk, I neither care for nor play them. Phew. I think that's all. I hope I made sense.

MKCC14
07-17-2007, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
It still doesnt say that they would give the other games bad reviews. But, they still didnt get bad reviews at all. If it was just as bad as people say it is it would have gotten a very low score. Bad games get low scores...and it seems SCDA just was not one of them.

Reviews do not compare sequels to the originals. They are there to tell you if the game is good or not.
You say that as though that makes it perfectly alright that it got lower reviews. If they are reviewing it based on its own merit, then they can't use the 'it's the same old thing as last time' argument that you people continually use. In that case, it should be the same or even a higher score, as it incoporated new features and improved graphics. But it got a lower score. Why? Because the plot was bad, the new features were stupid and poorly implemented and it was just not that enjoyable? Probably. Don't forget that most reviewers didn't take into account the MASSIVE amount of bugs that DA had, or the subpar multiplayer it included. If I took DA as a game in its own right, separate from the rest of the series, it would be a decent game if you could ignore the bugs. But as a member of SC series, it has a name to live up to. And it failed to live up to that name entirely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You say MASSIVE amount of bugs, Im sure you are not talking about the same thing as me. I was speaking of SCDA on the original xbox.

@ChineseBookey: Ok fair enough, but I thought it was just as good as any other SC experience.

Chinese_Bookey
07-17-2007, 07:51 AM
Understandable. To each their own. ^____~

cdehferiuherih
07-17-2007, 08:28 AM
I just tried to play double agent on the pc again and in 1 hour I got 2 crashes and I got stuck in a wall I would rather see that fixed before I buy another ``quality`` product.

EskimoBob32
07-17-2007, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
It still doesnt say that they would give the other games bad reviews. But, they still didnt get bad reviews at all. If it was just as bad as people say it is it would have gotten a very low score. Bad games get low scores...and it seems SCDA just was not one of them.

Reviews do not compare sequels to the originals. They are there to tell you if the game is good or not.
You say that as though that makes it perfectly alright that it got lower reviews. If they are reviewing it based on its own merit, then they can't use the 'it's the same old thing as last time' argument that you people continually use. In that case, it should be the same or even a higher score, as it incoporated new features and improved graphics. But it got a lower score. Why? Because the plot was bad, the new features were stupid and poorly implemented and it was just not that enjoyable? Probably. Don't forget that most reviewers didn't take into account the MASSIVE amount of bugs that DA had, or the subpar multiplayer it included. If I took DA as a game in its own right, separate from the rest of the series, it would be a decent game if you could ignore the bugs. But as a member of SC series, it has a name to live up to. And it failed to live up to that name entirely. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You say MASSIVE amount of bugs, Im sure you are not talking about the same thing as me. I was speaking of SCDA on the original xbox.

@ChineseBookey: Ok fair enough, but I thought it was just as good as any other SC experience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ah, therein lies the problem. I have not played that game. I know that it got better reviews though... more similar to classic SC gameplay, wasn't it?

MKCC14
07-17-2007, 11:05 PM
Had no daylight missions, had all the gadgets/moves/gameplay that you wanted. It was like any other SC game with making choices.

EskimoBob32
07-18-2007, 03:13 AM
Yes, so I hear, which sounds to me like a reasonable game, although I hear the final confrontation with Emile was fairly cliched. That was one good thing with 360/PC DA, you could take out the villains how you wanted, or even not take them out at all. They even had a special animation for Emile and Moss if you like the scripted stuff.

Georg_Maximus
07-18-2007, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
Yes, so I hear, which sounds to me like a reasonable game, although I hear the final confrontation with Emile was fairly cliched.

Yeah - I remember thinking "wtf! - a bossfight??" when entering the final showdown with Emile. It was the ultimate low in a game that was otherwise fairly old-school SC, exept for those decicions you had to make at certain points that directed the story towards different endings, which IMO was totally unecessary and reduced the overall drive of the game. Should SC ever return to it's roots, I'm hoping not only for light/shadow-gameplay, but also for good old linear storytelling that drives you from one progress point to another without the silly distractions of sandbox gameplay and open-endedness.

EskimoBob32
07-18-2007, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
Yes, so I hear, which sounds to me like a reasonable game, although I hear the final confrontation with Emile was fairly cliched.

Yeah - I remember thinking "wtf! - a bossfight??" when entering the final showdown with Emile. It was the ultimate low in a game that was otherwise fairly old-school SC, exept for those decicions you had to make at certain points that directed the story towards different endings, which IMO was totally unecessary and reduced the overall drive of the game. Should SC ever return to it's roots, I'm hoping not only for light/shadow-gameplay, but also for good old linear storytelling that drives you from one progress point to another without the silly distractions of sandbox gameplay and open-endedness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I think the only notable exception was Shetland in CT. Sure, you had the choice of whether to make the hit or give a second chance to an old friend, but it made no difference at all - both had the same ending and even the same video afterwards. They both brought different meanings to the line "You're right, Doug, I wouldn't shoot an old friend", though, which was pretty neat writing.

Damn, I miss Chaos Theory, lol.

MKCC14
07-18-2007, 07:09 AM
The last part with Emile on Xbox SCDA was nothing near a boss fight. He didnt have any health bars and the whole thing didnt even last very long. It was more just like a final confrontation, just like with Shetland. Even though you had a choice of what to do to Shetland. It was just like any other firefight the SC series had, with a twist.

ROLNIK
07-18-2007, 01:29 PM
The last part with Emile on Xbox SCDA was nothing near a boss fight. He didnt have any health bars and the whole thing didnt even last very long.
jeez that reminds me of mario-like games

stavros_27
07-18-2007, 05:40 PM
You could say the same thing about the fight with Grinko (I think it was him, maybe I'm confusing the names) in the Abbatoir level of the original SC.

ROLNIK
07-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by stavros_27:
You could say the same thing about the fight with Grinko (I think it was him, maybe I'm confusing the names) in the Abbatoir level of the original SC.

Not exactly.

Fight with Emile also required that you aviod laser mines. You had to figure out how to move so Emile will move and turn off lasers. It's different thing with grinko because you can just go and kill him.

RedemptionX
07-18-2007, 06:55 PM
Man...I remember having to snipe the Georgian president through the window with only one shot..I loved the atmostphere/how tense it felt.

Anywho - on the matter at hand, I've played every splinter cell since the beginning and im ambivalent about it. On one hand im glad for the change - as the 'core' gameplay is becoming very repetitive and becoming too easy (yes, even on expert) and on the other hand, im scared they'll mess up the game all together.

basically im putting my faith into Montreals hands and they have since to let me down, every splinter cell game they've made i've absolutely loved. SC1 and CT are my two favorite games, I didn't really like Pandora Tomorrow and I liked Double Agent..although the single player was extremely short.

So basically im putting my confidence in Montreals hands and since they've yet to let me down, im not that afraid.

MKCC14
07-18-2007, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by jasiek.rolnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stavros_27:
You could say the same thing about the fight with Grinko (I think it was him, maybe I'm confusing the names) in the Abbatoir level of the original SC.

Not exactly.

Fight with Emile also required that you aviod laser mines. You had to figure out how to move so Emile will move and turn off lasers. It's different thing with grinko because you can just go and kill him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So what? It was just a little twist to figure out how to take him down. Just like when you had to fight all those guys and Grinko you couldnt just run out there and shoot everyone, you would sure die. It was the same situation with Emile. This was also in the Kalinatek building mission. There was a part when you were escaping where those enemies were throwing grenades and shooting at you.

Even in SCPT, in the TV Station, you had to protect that woman and eliminate all those enemies on the bridge. It was tricky since they had NVG on.

The Emile showdown was not anything outrageous where they gave him a health bar and special moves to how to take him down, which are in many boss fights in other games. Like for example, MGS, that game has boss fights.

Crosmanuil
07-18-2007, 10:33 PM
i totaly support Drunkrepublican's first post(the tread opener)

Georg_Maximus
07-19-2007, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
The last part with Emile on Xbox SCDA was nothing near a boss fight.

I don't think we have to go into the semantics of the phrase "bossfight" here, and I guess you're right: there have indeed been similar situations throughout the SC series that may be concidered bossfights. But unlike the other ones, this "bossfight" didn't come very natural with the blazing guns and explosions all of a sudden. And that the lasers changed to give you that extra adavntage of movement was plain dumb. It just seemed like a very cheap ending. Even Gears of War had some bossfights that involved more sneaking and stealthy behaviour than this one, and it's wierd that an action shooter manages to use the stealth concept in a more creative way when fighting bosses than a stealth game.

AgentXVII
07-27-2007, 05:44 AM
I only did it once, but I had a really Splinter Cell style ending to that part where I got to cover, lobbed stun-grenade at Emile, and while he was stunned, deactivated the laser mines from the laptop and jumped a bench before knocking him out with a punch. It was all business, no messing about, but sadly I only managed it once.

MKCC14
07-27-2007, 07:47 AM
Was anyone else able to grab him and interrogate him? I used smoke grenades to get to him.

aniket_nayak
07-27-2007, 08:56 AM
I haven't interrogated him ever. Does he say anything interesting?

ROLNIK
07-27-2007, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
Was anyone else able to grab him and interrogate him? I used smoke grenades to get to him.
Me. I used flashbangs.
I've also interrogated Moss. It was pretty funny.

aniket_nayak
07-27-2007, 09:02 AM
How did you interrogate Moss, when sam tries to grab him, he counters and sam overpowers and kills him right?

CoastalGirl
07-27-2007, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by aniket_nayak:
How did you interrogate Moss, when sam tries to grab him, he counters and sam overpowers and kills him right?
They're talking about the old-gen version.

aniket_nayak
07-27-2007, 09:23 AM
Aaaah...

AgentXVII
07-27-2007, 11:08 AM
Yeah, interrogating Moss was great. He was so angry at being grabbed, it was good fun. Lots of "I'll find out who you are..." and other similar idle threats.

I think I might have managed to grab Emile once, doesn't he want to know if you were ever on side with the JBA or you were against them from the start? The usual response to betrayal, disbelief. I might be thinking of something different though.

Zomgbies
08-03-2007, 09:27 PM
I can't wait for SC:C. I think it'll be better than all of the other splinter cells.

rtm1137
08-03-2007, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by braiog:
I'd usually agree with that, but...

SC 1 (Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC PT (Same premise. Good Reviews! Sold Well)
SC CT (Same premise. Great Reviews! Sold Well)
SC DA (Different premise. Horrible Reviews. Least amount of copies sold in SC series)
SC C (Different premise. ?. ?.)

The saying is "Go with what works!" "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" "Baseball is impossible game because no man can walk with four balls".

I guess anyone who's bought a SC game and is a fan of the series kind of has the right to say whether they disapprove of what they've seen so far as much as they do to say something positive. And what better place to do that than on the official forums?

Remember the same thing happened in DA. A lot of people said "Just wait til you play it! You might like it" .... well...... you know.... game kinda funked up big time.

Oh, not to mention that it's just SO MUCH EASIER to be pessimistic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
um actually double agent did not get "horrible" reviews. It got alot of decent reviews. just b/c it scored a little bit lower than the others, doesnt mean the reviews were "horrible"