Actual Intelligent Thread About Serious Game Flaws

[JasonFMTX]

Ok, its very late and I'm tired so my sentence structure and spell is going to be off here I'm sure but bare with me.

I want to make a real thread about the flaws of this game. Not a childish immature random rant like everyone else is doing. If you act like that no one listens to you. I want to be constructive about this.

Let me start off by saying UBIsoft... I love your work, I am a huge fan and a good customer. I LOVE the Ghost recon series, I have all of the PC versions and have played them over and over and over and over. I was heartbroken when I found out GR2 wasn't for PC so I went out and bought ax Xbox so i could play the 2 games. I have to say that once again I am heartbroken at the flaws of this game. Granted, nothing is perfect and you can't please everyone... but this game is completely loaded flaws. I decided that I did not like this game by the second mission but PUSHED myself to play it not only because I spent what I consider alot of money on th is game but in hopes that it was just new. Well, I am on Guardrail IX, checkpoint 3 and I am officially done with this game. I can not play it any longer.

Ill state some issues in an outline form.

1. No quicksaves. This is the first PC game I have ever played that did not have quicksave. Not only that all other UBI games do have quick save including Splinter Cells and the other Ghost Recons. Heck, even the Splinter Cell Chaos Theory for Xbox has quick save and you never see quick saves for console games. I am tired of constantly having to redo sections of missions only becuase I'm stuck in a part later on. Ad the time up... hours get wasted. I play video games for pleasure in my spare time. I can't waste 3 hours at time replaying same issues of a mission over and over. This is annoying..... HIGHLY. Its one of the reasons I'm a PC gamer is for the quicksaves.

2. Lone missions. This game is hard enough on the easier setting then all of the sudden your thrown into a mission without your team. In MayDay MayDay. Its pitch black and the Bad guys can see you and they dont even have night vision ??? How is this possible ? Then when you fire it temporarly blinds your night vision from the fire from the barrel of the gun. How can you see if you got the guy ? Then bad guys have the ability to get back up...next thing you know your dead (see complaint number 1).

3. One of the flaws in the PC version is it has the largest maps. Bad guys are everywhere, I can't count how many times I am killed from people I have no clue where there are. I played the Xbox version of this and I must say I didn't like it at first but came to like it very soon and did very well.

4. In the Xbox version you can save whenever you like at the checkpoint trailer stations as well as refill health for your team. Why does the PC version not do this ?? I think I may go back and re rent the Xbox version. It was much better and easier to play.

5. This software is RIDDLED with bugs. Setting aside the CONSTANT crashes. I actually had the function to select the orders for your team quit working and my keys remapped. I had to completley uninstall the game and REPLAY all my missions all over again. I also had to reinstall the patch 4 times. The first three times I Couldnt even load the game, it immediately crashed !! Also, other minor bugs "Kirkland" going into a raid of constantly repeating "WAIT... I HAVE TO RELOAD !!.... RELOADING CAPTAIN" (again, see complaint 1) Try listening to that for hours on end.

6. Why the massive differences betwen the 360, XBOX and PC version... thats just more of a question than a complaint. But splinter cell they are all the same or at least extremely close. There are basically all different games for these systems. You can climb ladders and so fort in the Xbox amoung the other things I mentioned.

7. I won't even go into the multiplayer problems.

8. Signal Jammer missions. I payed alot of money for a next gen game. Paid alot of money to update my computer so I could have High Rez graphics only to go playing hours on end with fuzzy signal jammed vision. I think we get the point, you dont have to make the vision fuzzed. This is EXTREMELY annoying.

9. No anti aliasing. Seriously, this is a Next Gen game. No antialiasing ?

10. Shimmering of graphics. This may be do to no anti aliasing but everything constantly flickers. There are times it flickers where bad guys use to be that I have shot and I keep refiring at nothing because of the flickers. But again, this is bad for a next gen game. Chaos Theory and Lockdown dont do this. Superb graphics.

11. Team not moving, tanks etc. Why is it that sometimes you give orders for yoru men to move and they dont. or dely, or get halfway there and stop for no reason ? This was a problem even in teh first Ghost recon. I can see it was never fixed after 5 years.

12. Extremely instability of your weapon. Sniper rifle is the most stable and all it does is even wobble. I get in close firing range with other guys and Im spending five seconds on steadying my weapon and they already have me shot !!

13. no health refill, and even if you restart a checkpoint half the time your health square is already orangish yellow.... not green.


I'm going to stop here for now, again I'm tired and its late. Continue the discussion

[redbeardeddevil]

Good post. I concur.

[cajun16]

Good post. I agree with everything. And how about after hours of getting to a certain point (with no saves) one of your team members becomes "stuck" in a pile of rubbish or between a lamp post and some other object and you have to restart from your last computer generated save and spend another hour or two just getting back to where he was stuck? For all its good points, I for one am pretty upset with this PC game. I'll continue to buy Ubi games in the future, but only after and if after the game is on the market for a period of time and it proves to be worthwhile to spend my money. My Walmart does not take games back once the "seal" is broken, darn it.

[JasonFMTX]

Yes, I will continue to buy UBI games as well. I'm not being an immature little kid about this saying "UBI sucks, i'm never buying there stuff again I've totally lost faith in them...blah blah blah"


I'm just saying I seriously disagree with alot of the features of this game and I don't know what in the world happened.

I would really really like someone from UBI to read this. I don't care if they actually end up doing anything about it (ie make patches) but I just want someone to read it and see that this game truely is messed up so their fine line of games never has to re endure this again.

[JasonFMTX]

Oh yes, and I agree about your guys getting stuck. I've had that happen MANY times. How does that even happen anyway. They get stuck in places where they never even were.

You reload the game and Kirkland is stuck halfway across the map and doesnt respond to commands ???? You actually have to go all the way over and get him, risk your health or the halth of another man and dont forget how m uch time you waste doing EVERY SINGLE TIME becuase there is no quicksave. So everytime you reload the checkpoint you have to do this or survive without your teammate.

I think one of the most major complaints is complaint number one on my list. No quicksaves, alot of these problems wouldnt exist or could be easily gotten around if quicksave was enabled. Patch UBI ?


Another thing, does anyone know how we can directly contact someone from UBI so they can see this thread ?

[owlgore]

Originally posted by JasonFMTX:

12. Extremely instability of your weapon. Sniper rifle is the most stable and all it does is even wobble. I get in close firing range with other guys and Im spending five seconds on steadying my weapon and they already have me shot !!



I don't have this problem. My weapons are all rock steady.

I am puzzled.

[owlgore]

"I have to reload."

Once a team member gets stuck saying this, you really can't get him to stop, not even after you visit a chopper for more ammo. I am pretty sure they are out of ammo and stay out of ammo. This has gotten me to wonder whether they get any new ammo at all at a ammo-reload chopper.

On one occasion I tried changing weapons for the out-of-ammo team member. This did not work either. The guy kept saying he was trying to reload.

He even refused to use his secondary weapon. Not amazingly, he soon got killed because he did not fire back at a bad guy approaching his position.

So, is this a bug? Do the team get ammo when you reload at a chopper? Is there any way we can tell?

[KungFu_CIA]

The biggest and most obvious problem with this game as has been mentioned ad infinitum is it was never even close to finished when they released it.

Add to that the developers, GRIN, are brand new to this genre and wide-scale, retail releases and only listen to a select few on GhostRecon.net and you have what amounts to a mediocre game which caters to a very few select individuals -- if that; half of the fanboys are fanboys because they don't want to publically admit GRIN screwed them over as well.

Not to be a forum Troll or sound like a smug E-Thug...

But I can't get over the irony of Bo (GRIN's CEO and lead Designer) claiming that if they made the game everyone wanted it would sell exactly one copy. This was his clever retort to all the requests they kept getting on GR.net about making it more like GR1... Yet look how well GRAW PC has sold. It did terribly as far as initial release sales figures go.

In fact, I went to my local EB Games today and there were about three or four used copies of GRAW in the Previously Owned PC section. This may not be indicative of over all sales around the country, but the game has been out for less than three months and already people are bringing it back.

[RiesenSchnauzer]

All of these problems seem to fall under the common theme of the game being very counterintuitive in many aspects. Its as if the Grin designers weren't capable of imagining the game from the viewpoint of a typical pc player.

Who honestly thought that a person would want to watch long cut scenes every time they fired up a mission? Who thought that everybody would want a crowded HUD without the ability to toggle some of the features off? Who thought that through long and hard missions a PC player wouldn't want reasonable save points?

Some of this stuff is so obvious it begs the question. Are the Grin developers out of touch? Or maybe they were in a hurry and these are the cut corners which will hopefully be fixed in the future.

[megaonerigist]

I agree with everything

[gyrocx]

1. It is annoying when you cant quick save although I saw it as a challenge between each save point which offered different senarios.

2. Mayday Mayday was easy. It was hard near the end though.

3."I can't count how many times I am killed from people I have no clue where there are."
Welcome to the reality of urban warfare. Look before you move and take "advantage" of the tactical map.

4. "I think I may go back and re rent the Xbox version. It was much better and easier to play." Yeah, I think you better. It'll be much easier for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

5. "The first three times I Couldnt even load the game, it immediately crashed !! Also, other minor bugs "Kirkland" going into a raid of constantly repeating "WAIT... I HAVE TO RELOAD !!.... RELOADING CAPTAIN"" Wow, thats never happend to me before. The only crashes ive had were online when I was dissconnected for no reason.

6. Something you need to ask UBI. IMO, the story was what messed up the PC version. Its pure Hollywood.

7. "7. I won't even go into the multiplayer problems." Why not? Letting the devs/ubi know the exact problems you are having online will help them troubleshoot for the next patches this summer. Well, it doesnt matter, I guess this is just a rant thread anyways since almost none these points except for the bugs(which you can be more spcefic) will help grin and ubi improve the game in a later date.

8. LOL, what is it supposed to look like when a jamming signal interupts with you head set? Blame the writer of the story for allowing the jamming signal event in the game. I didnt find it annoying at all tho, its part of the story. It sorta underlines the disadvantage of advanced technology.

9. I agree on the AA. I never heard of a next gen game on a PC though. I always thought that was a term that was reserved for consoles. All PC games that are released are always concidered current Gen.

10. Never heard of that one. Ive never seen problems with this "flickering" but ive seen some physics problems and such.

11. I've noticed this too although I found out that when you send them into an exposed area, they may not go to the exact location because they will look for a new posistion nearby that has cover. In other words, if you set them a marker that is right in the middle of the street, they may go in the general area but stick next to a car, tree or wall close by.

12. "Extremely instability of your weapon. Sniper rifle is the most stable and all it does is even wobble. I get in close firing range with other guys and Im spending five seconds on steadying my weapon and they already have me shot !!" Um yeah, you better go to an easier game. lol. My advice, stay away from Sniper Elite.

13. When you restart at a check point your health and your teammates will fill up slighty. Unrealistic IMO but I guess they needed to add it for those who cant handle a more realistic approach. A better complaint would have been they should just added med kits with in you regular load outs.

Based on your complaints I pretty sure this game is not for you. You need to make sure to get a game thats easier to play.

[JasonFMTX]

Yeah another complaint being the long cut screens.


also another one i forgot, I had to redo the last checkpoint of the quarterback mission 12 times because when Guardrail 9 loaded it immediately crashed and it doesnt save until that mission starts... not when the previous mission is complete. It was easy to blow through this check point thats why i was so willing to redo it so many times. if it was one of the harder ones i probably would of done it 2 maybe 3 times before I called it quits. Like one of the missions that took me an hour or so to get through.

to the guy above. thats great you like this game but you have to be more sympathetic to how games should be... most people dont like a game to be near impossible. if i wanted THAT realistic of a game I would of stayed in the marine corp. and also... just as my opinion, I'm shocked that anyone agrees with the way this game is. After voicing all of my gripes about this game I am shocked at how well I hypnotised myself into forcably playing it this long. I feel this game is extremely bad, not just physically as in bugs and what not.. but just in the basic game structure and setup.

I have NEVER seen a game get this many complaints before. Go to the King Kong boards,or Splinter Cell boards and count how many posts/threads say they hate the game. You'll find slim to none.

Keep the gripes coming people, maybe if this thread gets popular enough someone will read it.

My most forward motion is a patch for quicksaves, to me THAT is the main thing that needs to be fixed above all.

[clec]

I just finished vip2 after countless attempts.
My only question is why did they let that mission go for so long without a checkpoint?

Very next mission they had a checkpoint save about five minutes into the mission, whats up with that?

This is not a bad game, but the checkpoint saves are poorly placed.

Granted, i am only on mission 4 but do they get better?

Are there more vip2 no saves in store for the rest of the game?

[srl50]

Yes, I agree with the author of this thread. I simply don't have the time or patience to replay a segment of a mission over multiple times only to get killed again and then have to replay that part of the mission all over again. OK, kill two AI guys here, run up the hill, kill two more there, across the street and kill the guy behind the tree, etc. Then after 15 minutes of advancing in the level, get killed and, then, kill two AI guys here, then up the hill, etc. This is just plain torture after a while, and not fun at all. I have given up on single player for now until a quick-save mod or patch is created or released. I'm encouraged by so many posters in this thread sharing their mutual frustrations along these lines. I love this game even still. But we need a quick-save option to 'save' this game. For now, I only play COOP missions online and that is really rewarding, even with the long loading times and buggy play. Here's hoping for a good next patch this month.

[JasonFMTX]

yes sir, well said.

[KoldStrejke]

The Game Engine Should Have stuck with the GR Engine Just Updated. It woulda been better then RvS:LD I am sure.

[clec]

This game reminds me of Project I.G.I, another tactical shooter with no quicksaves.

It was released about five years ago and i just played the missions over and over until i finished the game. It was just like GRAW today, but with bad graphics.

I dont know what it is, but having no quicksaves sometimes pushes a gamer, leaving us so determined that you will finish the chapter, just to make sure you kill every SOB that made you play the mission from the start over and over again.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif.

[Ghidrah_]

So why wasn't Redstorm tapped for GRAW?
In all the sites I go to, I haven't seen anyone ask that question yet.

[JasonFMTX]

to Clec, no it doesnt get any better

see my original post about the mission mayday mayday. You dont even have your team and badguys are everywhere, pitch black but they can still see you with no night vision and they surround you at all times. guys on the rooves, coming in from APC's, gun nests.

Of course its possible to beat these missions, I along with many others have done it but its SO hard that it isnt fun anymore, espeically having to repeat the same things over and over. That is ridiculous.

[mumzor]

Originally posted by RiesenSchnauzer:
All of these problems seem to fall under the common theme of the game being very counterintuitive in many aspects. Its as if the Grin designers weren't capable of imagining the game from the viewpoint of a typical pc player.

Who honestly thought that a person would want to watch long cut scenes every time they fired up a mission? Who thought that everybody would want a crowded HUD without the ability to toggle some of the features off? Who thought that through long and hard missions a PC player wouldn't want reasonable save points?

Some of this stuff is so obvious it begs the question. Are the Grin developers out of touch? Or maybe they were in a hurry and these are the cut corners which will hopefully be fixed in the future.


agreed, after all GRiN make arcade machines. not tactical shooters for pc

[owlgore]

Actually, this game plays a lot like Vietcong or Far Cry, which is why I like it. I think the game could use some more save points, but (unlimited) quicksaves actually spoil the game by making it too easy.

As to the game not being "finished," I assume this has to do with something other than the single-player game.

[owlgore]

Jason, the May Day mission is actually no harder than any other mission once you figure out how to approach it.

May I suggest you equip with a sniper rifle, the MP, and extra sniper ammo. Then hunt the bad guys. Kill them all.

[owlgore]

NO FSAA? Here's why:

"The game runs on Diesel Engine 6.0. The engine’s characteristics and capabilities are largely kept secret by the developer who is, however, known to have close relationships with Nvidia. We are familiar with some details, though. The game supports high dynamic range mode (HDR) and uses a deferred shadowing method that allows rendering the lighting of a scene after its geometry has been rendered. In theory, this method is faster, but it is not compatible with FSAA."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nvidia-gf7950gx2_18.html

[JasonFMTX]

Originally posted by owlgore:
Jason, the May Day mission is actually no harder than any other mission once you figure out how to approach it.

May I suggest you equip with a sniper rifle, the MP, and extra sniper ammo. Then hunt the bad guys. Kill them all.

thanks for the info, but I've long since beaten Mayday. Im actually on Guardrail IX . This is if I even decide to continue to play it. The game has pretty much lost all luster since the second mission. Its more work than enjoyment to me now.

[Emenance]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

[FlyBono24]

This game is seriously pissing me off. I haven't played since 5/31/06... almost two weeks now. I've been playing more of "The Godfather" lately, which is a good game, kind of repetitive but still fun.

Anyways I was wondering why I took so much time off of THIS game, and after playing for about 6 minutes I was reminded why I put this piece of **** down the FIRST time... the damn thing CRASHED on me!! It was very early in the VIP 2 mission... I had reloaded from the save point twice, and on the third time I just started walking and suddenly the screen froze, but I could still hear myself walking and all of the ambient noise... but the screen was still frozen in place. I tried ALT+F4... didn't work. Even trying to shut it off from the Task Manager didn't work. I actually had to log off my account so the damn thing would reset!! This is about the 20th time this has happened since I purchased the game, and every time it just makes me want to throw the game away.

These bugs NEED TO BE FIXED!! This is ridiculous!! I have a very fast machine, all updated drivers, the newest patch, and it's STILL crashing randomly!!

[Forrester1975]

Originally posted by FlyBono24:
This game is seriously pissing me off. I haven't played since 5/31/06... almost two weeks now. I've been playing more of "The Godfather" lately, which is a good game, kind of repetitive but still fun.

Anyways I was wondering why I took so much time off of THIS game, and after playing for about 6 minutes I was reminded why I put this piece of **** down the FIRST time... the damn thing CRASHED on me!! It was very early in the VIP 2 mission... I had reloaded from the save point twice, and on the third time I just started walking and suddenly the screen froze, but I could still hear myself walking and all of the ambient noise... but the screen was still frozen in place. I tried ALT+F4... didn't work. Even trying to shut it off from the Task Manager didn't work. I actually had to log off my account so the damn thing would reset!! This is about the 20th time this has happened since I purchased the game, and every time it just makes me want to throw the game away.

These bugs NEED TO BE FIXED!! This is ridiculous!! I have a very fast machine, all updated drivers, the newest patch, and it's STILL crashing randomly!!
First check system requirments, second make sure you have the latest drivers, that should fix your problem.

[Forrester1975]

I found playing hard at start, later on I got the grips on the game and now I am moving on quit easy. Vip2 took me some time, and luck.
The game runs allright with me, not real good, but hey, I dont have â"š¬500 for a graphics card....
Installing the 1.06 and 1.10 updates brought the savegame issue but I fixed it by plaing the last mission as a single mission until the last savegame and continued the campaighn from there on.
Off course the game differs friom GR1 too much in my opinion, I liked the gametype, with the specialist and so on, even without cheating on myself by unlocking anything. I liked the story in GR1 better, and especially the mission info and after that the weapons choice, hey in real life you can encounter situations that would require other weapons but graw lets you go in fully unprepaired.... some advice would do.
There are ups and downs with this game. I hope this game will turn out as a serious follow up for GR1 with modderators which make nice new campaigns, weapon kits and so on for frr download, it makes teh game worthwile for much longer as it is still lots of fun playing GR1.
Keep up the good work, leave the bad for repair.

[Ed_1]

I didn't find GRAW hard... .. and i died only when i tried to take some "shortcuts" and ran into unknown areas

[Snipe4Me]

to the guy above. thats great you like this game but you have to be more sympathetic to how games should be... This is a very important point, Just Imagine how much better (read: enjoyable) this game would be w/o all this bugs and glitches from an unfinished game?

It appears to me that some people don't mind because:

A.- They have to much money
B.- Mommy buys the games for him
C.- Has no idea and still believes money grows on trees http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


most people dont like a game to be near impossible. if i wanted THAT realistic of a game I would of stayed in the marine corp. and also... I like my games as real as possible to reality but C'mon, we grown-ups need to take care of business, kids, dinner, sports, etc, etc, hence, why we want to play a PRETEND game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


just as my opinion, I'm shocked that anyone agrees with the way this game is. After voicing all of my gripes about this game I am shocked at how well I hypnotised myself into forcably playing it this long. I feel this game is extremely bad, not just physically as in bugs and what not.. but just in the basic game structure and setup. I can't agree with you more. I have finished the game but I can't seem to want to go at it again because of the agony of starting missions that I may not be able to finish.

Far Cry was the same as this game when it comes to save points, although, you could go everywhere w/o getting the ole painfull "You're leaving the Mission Area Mitchell, get back in the game"http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but, once I was able to find me a crack for QUICKSAVES, I busted that game open for hours on end... I don't see this happening with this game, unles of course, a crack for that appears soon.

I guess I am lucky that a friend of mine bought the game and his kid was going to toss it, otherwise, there's NO WAY in hell them bastards are getting my hard earned money.

As I said again, some claim that the game is tactical. awesome, good, etc, etc,...OK, imagine how much better would be if they have finish it and give it to us how it should be?

What gets me is how easy you guys are give your money away... they know that, hence, why they can/are getting away with it. If they do, the next game will be worse than this one when it comes to bugs and glitches because they know they can get away with it.

This is much like the latest movies from hollywood or from Good Actors that are now capitalizing on how good they were before by making ****tyass movies and sending them pout to the population just cuz they need to make money.

Again, this is a constructive thread, don't misconstrue my post.

[Hatchetforce]

Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
The biggest and most obvious problem with this game as has been mentioned ad infinitum is it was never even close to finished when they released it.

Add to that the developers, GRIN, are brand new to this genre and wide-scale, retail releases and only listen to a select few on GhostRecon.net and you have what amounts to a mediocre game which caters to a very few select individuals -- if that; half of the fanboys are fanboys because they don't want to publically admit GRIN screwed them over as well.

Not to be a forum Troll or sound like a smug E-Thug...

But I can't get over the irony of Bo (GRIN's CEO and lead Designer) claiming that if they made the game everyone wanted it would sell exactly one copy. This was his clever retort to all the requests they kept getting on GR.net about making it more like GR1... Yet look how well GRAW PC has sold. It did terribly as far as initial release sales figures go.

In fact, I went to my local EB Games today and there were about three or four used copies of GRAW in the Previously Owned PC section. This may not be indicative of over all sales around the country, but the game has been out for less than three months and already people are bringing it back.

You are not being an E-Thug. The only E-Thugs are GRIN who refuse to engage anyone in a forum where they are not thoroughly guarded. Instead they do so from locations where they can be a bunch of protected keyboard bullies.

When he received his first negative post, the Dev Team leader Bo threatened to never post again. Well if that is the case he might as well learn to be a ditch digger. They made the game in a vacuum - they posted that their realsim research came from the internet or movies - and only for certain hardware. Regardless of a systems power.

The game is done. They'll have a few fans that, as you said, will be hangers on. That's all.

In one conversation they tried to justify why they don't allow you to run and reload at the same time, despite the fact we do this in the real world. When called on the carpet about this error in gameplay realism, they responded that they wanted the gameplay to be like a puzzle. Is it a military shooter, or Chinese Checkers?

The inability to look at something and say, "Yeah, we could have handled that better" never enters their arrogant narrow minds. Having to stand still and reload works great in an office, just not in the real world. Actually it works bad in an office too. Plenty of people have run to cover only to discover they run into an enemy that has a full mag. The player also has full mags...just not in his weapon. Whoopty do, there's a puzzle. Do I let this guy kill me as I am reloading or do I sprint back across the plaza and die in the open. Let me see...

Personally I hate to see the series go in the toilet. But GRAW PC is the PS2 lockdown version of Ghost Recon. GRIN can live in their pretend world on some other site, but they trashed Ghost Recon.

[owlgore]

Originally posted by FlyBono24:

Anyways I was wondering why I took so much time off of THIS game, and after playing for about 6 minutes I was reminded why I put this piece of **** down the FIRST time... the damn thing CRASHED on me!! It was very early in the VIP 2 mission... I had reloaded from the save point twice, and on the third time I just started walking and suddenly the screen froze, but I could still hear myself walking and all of the ambient noise... but the screen was still frozen in place. I tried ALT+F4... didn't work. Even trying to shut it off from the Task Manager didn't work. I actually had to log off my account so the damn thing would reset!! This is about the 20th time this has happened since I purchased the game, and every time it just makes me want to throw the game away.

These bugs NEED TO BE FIXED!! This is ridiculous!! I have a very fast machine, all updated drivers, the newest patch, and it's STILL crashing randomly!!

Could be a heat problem. All my random crashes went away when I cleaned the system and added a fan.

[spm1138]

In fact, I went to my local EB Games today and there were about three or four used copies of GRAW in the Previously Owned PC section. This may not be indicative of over all sales around the country, but the game has been out for less than three months and already people are bringing it back.

Irrelevent, really. I was reading somewhere that the first couple of days sales are the only thing that really counts.

Most people don't even fire up the MP mode.

[JasonFMTX]

on a good note, I actually decided to put Singple player on hold last night and retry multipplayer mode...... it actually decided it was going to work for a few hours before a crash.


until it did crash of course, it was a blast, COOP mode is awesome. Then it froze.. THEN crashed.

[Delta_Hoot]

Here's my list of complaints (Only SP mode):

- Linear maps + way too scripted missions - The SP game feels like we are attached to strings like damn marionettess. There's no freedom of movement nor too many choices, there's only one way to play: the way the game tells you and that's it.

- No ammo pick for weapons, except for the weapons chambered for the 5,56mm caliber. There should be refills for 7,62mm, 9mm, and the .50 BMG too (Enemies do use these calibers in GRAW)

- Very slow follow up shots and high recoil in Single-Fire Mode. This forces you to use auto-fire thus wasting more ammo. Single-fire should have a High rate of fire by pressing the buttom quickly and way less recoil as in OGR. It's an assault-rifle for christ's sake, not a muzzle-loader! Fix that.

- Very artificial way of creating difficult. (by forcing the player to fall right into traps, crossing the line of fire on purpose, having to redo the same maps over and over just to reach a save point). This isn't hard, it's only frustating and hella annoying.

- Poor damage model. Enemies surviving more than 2 or 3 rifle rounds to the head/neck? Please! Are they humans or zombies?? This sheeit needs to be fixed ASAP. No more enemy A.I bouncing back and up like rubber dolls on springs. Also, it doesn't seem to have any sort of damage based of different body parts and this is ridiculous.

- Not to many weapon choices. Why the heck did Xbox kiddies get a ****load of guns and PC folks don't??

- Too many bugs! (too many to list)

[Chazmeister73]

I have to agree with most of the negative comments here as the lack of being able to quick save is starting to really kill this game for me. To start with I quite enjoyed this game but the bugs and flaws are just too big to be ignored.

My major gripe is your AI team mates, you just never know what the hell they're going to do next. Even when given orders through the tactical interface you still can't trust them. Why when you ask them to take up a good covered postion to provide covering fire do they insist on strolling out into the open in a fire fight to get a better shot, it's plain suicidal. Then when you want them to move by themselves, like when they come under enemy fire, they just stay put soaking up bullets whilst informing you of the fact over the intercom. And that thing where they stop for no reason when following a way point or comand, it happens so often I just can't belive that it was never noticed during play testing.

Due to these problems that VIP2 is a really busting my balls and driving my frustration point through the roof. I must have tried that last bit about ten times and I still can't finish it with all my squad alive. Despite anchoring them down in the ruins they still break cover and run out in the open to tackle enemy soldiers. And generally once the first tank turns up one of them is usually caught out in the open and dead meat. Like I say I've tried that bit ten times now and whilst I can now do my bit like clock work the performance of my AI team mates is just completely unpredicatable everytime. Getting all my guys past that is just going to be down to sheer luck.

On the flip side the game has had it's moments and taking cover behind cars as they're getting raked with machine gun fire is pretty cool. And its the promise of more moments like this thats making me persevere with it.

[Chazmeister73]

Originally posted by owlgore:
Actually, this game plays a lot like Vietcong.

Despite being quite tough Vietcong 2 was no where near as frustrating as this game and was certainly a lot more fun. The ability to be able to quickly rise up and peak over your cover to let off a few shots was a god send feature and I don't know why more games don't have it. This game could certainly do with it. I think I'll reinstall VC2 actually as I only played it through the once and I really enjoyed it.

[owlgore]

Chaz, Vietcong I is just as good, if not better, than Vietcong II. The game is very hard on "normal" mode, impossible on "hard," and a nightmare on "realistic." I made it thru on hard just once.

It has an "Easy" mode that allows one unlimited quicksaves. The higher level begin to limit them in number.

I also agree that the ability to peek over obstacles and fire from all stances is great. You do have that ability, to some degree, in GRAW. There is an exta bit of height one can get by pressing "V" while standing.

[owlgore]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmeister73:

Due to these problems that VIP2 is a really busting my balls and driving my frustration point through the roof. I must have tried that last bit about ten times and I still can't finish it with all my squad alive. Despite anchoring them down in the ruins they still break cover and run out in the open to tackle enemy soldiers. And generally once the first tank turns up one of them is usually caught out in the open and dead meat. Like I say I've tried that bit ten times now and whilst I can now do my bit like clock work the performance of my AI team mates is just completely unpredicatable everytime. Getting all my guys past that is just going to be down to sheer luck.
QUOTE]

Try this:

Place two snipers on the corner of the building, far right viewed from the embassy. Place third grunt, rifleman or SAW, behind the embassy covering the back. You take the embassy second floor until you rescue the VIP. Then move to same building as your snipers. Target the second tank as soon as it emerges from tunnel. Then move to the other side of this same building. Target the third tank as it emerges onto the plaza.

The beauty of this technique is that your snipers are covered from the first tank by the monument in the center of the plaza, while you target the second and third tanks as soon as they are visible. In the meantime, the snipers take out everything that moves in the plaza, while your rifleman protects the rear.

[FlyBono24]

Originally posted by Forrester1975:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlyBono24:
I have a very fast machine, all updated drivers, the newest patch, and it's STILL crashing randomly!!
First check system requirments, second make sure you have the latest drivers, that should fix your problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't I just say that I had a fast machine and new drivers?

Asus A8N-SLI board
Athlon 3700+ San Diego CPU
1GB OCZ PlatRev2 RAM
Geforce 7800GT OC video (8421 drivers)
SB X-Fi (1144 drivers)

[FlyBono24]

Originally posted by owlgore:

Could be a heat problem. All my random crashes went away when I cleaned the system and added a fan.

I wish it were that simple. I have an extremely efficient heatsink on my CPU, I rarely see temps reach 45â?C at full load (I leave Everest running in the background to test it), and I live in Southern California!! My GPU peaks at around 55â?C while running the game.

[Venom_2006]

More points I found annoying, Video streams when missions updated, the audio level is extremely low and maybe just me but not adjustable...

Silencer - Hardly much quieter considering its primary purpose....

Squad members - Of course all the points raised so far with their ability to be controlled without added delays waiting for them to react, but why do they have to shout all the time...

I dont mind the check point saves system, Its not hard to learn the positions of the enermies after the 3-4th attempt, If fact when you know your due a checkpoint save its worth doing the harder parts of a mission first then go to a check point save.

Allow a save between missions atleast..

As for leaving the mission area, in the hints it says always flank... But in some cases you cant flank on both sides because you will leave the mission area on some maps.

<B>Jumping...</B> Where is that feature, Cant even step up on to a raised flower bed... !!!

More team member instructions in the com menu
Run
Hide

Tank movements - they run over parked cars but get stuck turning corners if a lamp post is close by and a waste of time adding them to the mission with the palace.

Maybe a Fraps or codec issue but unable to record GRAW audio using fraps (Maybe a good thing or I could record the audio of my team mates being given orders and they reply but do nothing for awhile.

Dev feedback - Your forums, we're posting away and nothing offical back from you guys... We're lining your pockets and buying your game and no-one has been tasked with posting future features your looking in to and going to fix. Come on show us you care, because if this is your idea of good customer service, your going to lose a large amount future sales due to poor feedback.

Plus more...


Venom / Havoc

[Hatchetforce]

Originally posted by owlgore:
Chaz, Vietcong I is just as good, if not better, than Vietcong II. The game is very hard on "normal" mode, impossible on "hard," and a nightmare on "realistic." I made it thru on hard just once.

It has an "Easy" mode that allows one unlimited quicksaves. The higher level begin to limit them in number.

I also agree that the ability to peek over obstacles and fire from all stances is great. You do have that ability, to some degree, in GRAW. There is an exta bit of height one can get by pressing "V" while standing.

Vietcong 1, particularly the European version(Although I live in the States, I picked up both editions) stands as 'how to do a Special Forces game correctly'. The dev team's historical research is impeccable, and their atmosphere spot on. The Team members have character - especially Hornster. Yes it has it's issues, but GRAW for all it's so called bells and whistles pales as a gaming experience in the light of VC1.

[covert_oops]

Some points I agree with you original poster but for #1 I think it is fine. I didn't even like the save point concept. I came from the Rainbow Six series (up until Raven Shield) so no saving for an entire mission already got me used to it. The only stupidest concept they have that is in common with R6 Lockdown is that once the leader died the whole mission ends. At least let me continue the mission as the remaining guy given that I can no longer play them. Sometimes your AI team member is really brain-dead and the only way to do it properly is by doing it right youself.

[owlgore]

Hatch, you got it. VietCong I was simply a great game. But, GRAW is so much like VC I, I suspect that the code for this game or perhaps the programmers can be traced back to VC I more than it can be traced back to GR 1. Notice, for example, how, when the AI "peeks" from behind cover, they appear exactly as they did in VC I.

[owlgore]

Flybono, you didn't mention your power supply. It could be overheating as well, or producing something less than required on one of the rails when your run the game at higher resolutions.

[Forrester1975]

Originally posted by FlyBono24:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Forrester1975:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FlyBono24:
I have a very fast machine, all updated drivers, the newest patch, and it's STILL crashing randomly!!
First check system requirments, second make sure you have the latest drivers, that should fix your problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't I just say that I had a fast machine and new drivers?

Asus A8N-SLI board
Athlon 3700+ San Diego CPU
1GB OCZ PlatRev2 RAM
Geforce 7800GT OC video (8421 drivers)
SB X-Fi (1144 drivers) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You didn't customize anything? Overclocked? original and tested rig? than you are very unlucky since you are one of the few which have a bug?
You have got a nice rig, but i see lots of people who build their own rig and don't know that some components do bite eachother, that's why I allways stick to rigs build by people who know what they do.
My sistem has less than yours (apart from better CPU) and the game runs fine, though loading takes a few minutes sometimes.

[JasonFMTX]

NEW COMPLAINT

Went against my own rules and played the game in single player again after I said I was done. Just thought I might give it a little dabble.

Got to mission "fiercest resistance" Now...... you can NOT tell me that this scrambling thing fuzzing the vision is not annoying. Bad enough when its in broad daylight. Try it when your using the night vision. YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING !!! with a map as big as the world itself it seems you cant see bad guys anywhere, espeically when some are perched behind concrete walls 200 ft off the ground in towers you didn't know where there or are in dark corners in gun nests that you couldnt see anyway, espeically in the dark with fuzzed night vision.

This game is just so unreal. I read somewhere else the reason the Grin guys dont read here is because of teh bashing they would recieve. 1. I can see why, this is the most hated game ever. Why shouldn't they recieve it. 2. what..? they only what feedback as long as its good ? You have to take the good with the bad, these guys aren't five year olds in preschool that need to be babied. Own up to your mistakes.

I realize I'm starting to get off the handle myself, but this is just ridiculous. I'm more hurt than anything becuase I want to like this game so much I'm forcing it. Cant put a square peg in a round hole I guess.

I can see why they didnt release GR2 on computer, if it was worse tahn this how bad is that !?!?

I'm digging splinter cell and rainbow six back out of the drawer to play until eitehr these are fixed (which we all know isnt going to happen) or Double Agent comes out. (i think that one is more likely)

[Forrester1975]

Originally posted by JasonFMTX:
NEW COMPLAINT

Went against my own rules and played the game in single player again after I said I was done. Just thought I might give it a little dabble.

Got to mission "fiercest resistance" Now...... you can NOT tell me that this scrambling thing fuzzing the vision is not annoying. Bad enough when its in broad daylight. Try it when your using the night vision. YOU CANT SEE ANYTHING !!! with a map as big as the world itself it seems you cant see bad guys anywhere, espeically when some are perched behind concrete walls 200 ft off the ground in towers you didn't know where there or are in dark corners in gun nests that you couldnt see anyway, espeically in the dark with fuzzed night vision.

This game is just so unreal. I read somewhere else the reason the Grin guys dont read here is because of teh bashing they would recieve. 1. I can see why, this is the most hated game ever. Why shouldn't they recieve it. 2. what..? they only what feedback as long as its good ? You have to take the good with the bad, these guys aren't five year olds in preschool that need to be babied. Own up to your mistakes.

I realize I'm starting to get off the handle myself, but this is just ridiculous. I'm more hurt than anything becuase I want to like this game so much I'm forcing it. Cant put a square peg in a round hole I guess.

I can see why they didnt release GR2 on computer, if it was worse tahn this how bad is that !?!?

I'm digging splinter cell and rainbow six back out of the drawer to play until eitehr these are fixed (which we all know isnt going to happen) or Double Agent comes out. (i think that one is more likely)
good luck http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Chazmeister73]

Originally posted by owlgore:
Chaz, Vietcong I is just as good, if not better, than Vietcong II. The game is very hard on "normal" mode, impossible on "hard," and a nightmare on "realistic." I made it thru on hard just once.

It has an "Easy" mode that allows one unlimited quicksaves. The higher level begin to limit them in number.

I also agree that the ability to peek over obstacles and fire from all stances is great. You do have that ability, to some degree, in GRAW. There is an exta bit of height one can get by pressing "V" while standing.

Yep I played Vietcong 1 when it came out too and that was also rock hard and had the occasional buggy mission. I never got past that mission where you had to free the GI from the bamboo cage. No matter what I did I always set off the alarm and got the guy killed. Otherwise though it was an excellent and atmospheric tactical shooter, it was the first one that really did proper jungle fighting.

My only gripe with Vietcong 2 was that it was way too short and that there weren't enough jungle bits. The street fighting in VC2 though is just excellent, one of my favourite bits was running through all those back gardens down the back alley near the embassy.

As for your tips on VIP2 I'll give them a try thanks. As for pressing "V" thats OK when you're on foot next to tall obsticals but no good when you're crouching next to a wall that's just a bit too high to put your gun over, stand up and you die.

[owlgore]

Yeah, that rescue the prisoner mission was hard. I found the trick was to move up to a tree in the shadows near the cage, wait until the guards are moving away from the cage, then simply walk, not run, up to the cage, open the door, and walk back the way you came. Running alerted the guards. You could do this without sniping anyone with your silenced pistol.

[Hatchetforce]

Originally posted by Chazmeister73:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by owlgore:
Chaz, Vietcong I is just as good, if not better, than Vietcong II. The game is very hard on "normal" mode, impossible on "hard," and a nightmare on "realistic." I made it thru on hard just once.

It has an "Easy" mode that allows one unlimited quicksaves. The higher level begin to limit them in number.

I also agree that the ability to peek over obstacles and fire from all stances is great. You do have that ability, to some degree, in GRAW. There is an exta bit of height one can get by pressing "V" while standing.

Yep I played Vietcong 1 when it came out too and that was also rock hard and had the occasional buggy mission. I never got past that mission where you had to free the GI from the bamboo cage. No matter what I did I always set off the alarm and got the guy killed. Otherwise though it was an excellent and atmospheric tactical shooter, it was the first one that really did proper jungle fighting.

My only gripe with Vietcong 2 was that it was way too short and that there weren't enough jungle bits. The street fighting in VC2 though is just excellent, one of my favourite bits was running through all those back gardens down the back alley near the embassy.

As for your tips on VIP2 I'll give them a try thanks. As for pressing "V" thats OK when you're on foot next to tall obsticals but no good when you're crouching next to a wall that's just a bit too high to put your gun over, stand up and you die. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's too bad you never got past that mission because it just keeps getting better. To this day I run VC1 at least 1 time a week. I just used a lot of stealth and came up on the left side of the cage area. VC1 was so full of atmosphere you could cut it with a knife.

[Alex_HS]

Originally posted by Hatchetforce:

That's too bad you never got past that mission because it just keeps getting better. To this day I run VC1 at least 1 time a week. I just used a lot of stealth and came up on the left side of the cage area. VC1 was so full of atmosphere you could cut it with a knife.

I beat the original campaign atleast 3 or 4 times and bought the original one and the Purple Haze pack that included the Fist Alpha expantion (EU versions, full swearing and gore).

I developed the perfect tactic to beat the POW mission using only the combat knife on the congs sleeping inside the huts and the hush puppy on the patroling ones. I took the wright path crawling towards the river, you can kill all of them in full stealth very easily this way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif .

Saddly the FA expantion felt rushed and not has polished/smooth has the original game, VC2 lost the jungle appeal and become too CoD alike, it also performed bad and had many flaws, they took their time with VC1 and did it right, unfortunetly after VC2 Pterodon shut down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif .

I might reinstall VC1 since there is no new good military FPS's coming out, i think VC is a classic overlooked by many people.

[Hatchetforce]

I just got a buddy hooked on VC1 last night. I showed him some of the movies I made and he was impressed. He is a former SF Team Leader and was floored by the work the deve team managed to do. It isn't the prettiest game, but listening to Hornster complain is worth it. That guy had us in stitches. The AI has a few pathfinding issues sometimes but I have yet to see them do the GRAW disco dance. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when your new high speed PC title gets clobbered by a 3 year old title. So Solly GRIN. Not.

[owlgore]

Yeah, there is a difference from Cross-com chatter with some Generals and the constant, but very entertaining, banter of your SF team from VC1. VC1 was, and still is, a much better game than GRAW.

[JasonFMTX]

well, after a several day break I decided to keep pushing on being I only had 2 missions left. May as well get my money's worth.


Surprisingly, the last two missions were pretty easy, blew right through them. I liked the little drama they had there witn the "inside guy". Too bad about Bud though.

[big_perm]

Originally posted by Hatchetforce:
I just got a buddy hooked on VC1 last night. I showed him some of the movies I made and he was impressed. He is a former SF Team Leader and was floored by the work the deve team managed to do. It isn't the prettiest game, but listening to Hornster complain is worth it. That guy had us in stitches. The AI has a few pathfinding issues sometimes but I have yet to see them do the GRAW disco dance. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when your new high speed PC title gets clobbered by a 3 year old title. So Solly GRIN. Not.

All the best games are old. Were currently in a dark age of gaming. Gameplay is always greater than graphics but the game companies have lost sight of that. It seems nowadays games are turning into interactive movies.

That said, GRAW has a great foundation. It could be an awesome game... in a year or so.

[Hatchetforce]

Originally posted by big_perm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hatchetforce:
I just got a buddy hooked on VC1 last night. I showed him some of the movies I made and he was impressed. He is a former SF Team Leader and was floored by the work the deve team managed to do. It isn't the prettiest game, but listening to Hornster complain is worth it. That guy had us in stitches. The AI has a few pathfinding issues sometimes but I have yet to see them do the GRAW disco dance. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when your new high speed PC title gets clobbered by a 3 year old title. So Solly GRIN. Not.

All the best games are old. Were currently in a dark age of gaming. Gameplay is always greater than graphics but the game companies have lost sight of that. It seems nowadays games are turning into interactive movies.

That said, GRAW has a great foundation. It could be an awesome game... in a year or so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unlike OGR, in a year no one will remember GRAW.