Can we be told by betas how is the trim system?

[M_Gunz]

Same as IL2? I'm hoping it will move on key press and stop on key release, that would really make me happy!

[Rjel]

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Same as IL2? I'm hoping it will move on key press and stop on key release, that would really make me happy!

To go along with that, if actual trim tabs aren't modeled I really hope the trim isn't visible. To me, it looks silly having the elevator in an obvious down position to maintain level flight.

[horseback]

Accurate visual indication on the trim wheels would be nice; if an in-cockpit animation isn't possible, a HUD indicator (at least while you're making the adjustment) would be very nice.

The old Il-2 '46 delayed by-guess-and-by-God method was always one of my bugaboos, especially on the ultra sensitive trims on the the US late war fighters.

cheers

horseback

[Romanator21]

The point of the trim is to tap repeatedly. You can adjust trim in fine increments this way. It's not really meant for holding down unless you want full deflection right away.

[Ba5tard5word]

As far as I know nobody has the beta except the Maddox developers and they aren't really telling us stuff like this.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Same as IL2? I'm hoping it will move on key press and stop on key release, that would really make me happy!

To go along with that, if actual trim tabs aren't modeled I really hope the trim isn't visible. To me, it looks silly having the elevator in an obvious down position to maintain level flight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually with trim tabs (as opposed to stabilizer trim like on 109's) the elevator is moved by the trim and if it's trimmed for nose down then the surface will be down and the stick will be forward. The tab helps but the surface has to move for tab trim to work.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
As far as I know nobody has the beta except the Maddox developers and they aren't really telling us stuff like this.

We have at least one member here who did beta test CoD. Alpha test no, beta test yes.

[Ba5tard5word]

Really? Well that person must be under strict instructions from Ubi and/or 1C to not tell us anything or else we'd hear about the details.

[Rjel]

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Actually with trim tabs (as opposed to stabilizer trim like on 109's) the elevator is moved by the trim and if it's trimmed for nose down then the surface will be down and the stick will be forward. The tab helps but the surface has to move for tab trim to work.

I always assumed that was the purpose of trim tabs. Wouldn't having the elevator deflected in either direction affect speed and produce more drag?

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Romanator21:
The point of the trim is to tap repeatedly. You can adjust trim in fine increments this way. It's not really meant for holding down unless you want full deflection right away.

And a good slider is finer. Key tap moves by increment with no in-between.

IRL you hold the stick in place and adjust trim. You can feel the back force on the stick get less and less. When you don't feel any pull or push, you are trimmed for that stick position at least until your plane speeds up, slows down, or otherwise changes (power for instance) and then you trim again.
You can't do that so easily without FFB in IL2. You have to feed in trim while easing up on your joystick because holding your non-FFB joystick in one place and adjusting trim is the same as IRL adjusting trim and continuing to pull/push the real stick to keep the force on your hand the same! IL2 gives you stick feel but you don't have any way to hold the virtual stick steady in one position.
AFAICT there was some damping introduced in 4.07 which cut down on some changes in flight making a dynamic feedback with the user-commanded pilot-stick-forces (ie the handling improved) but we're somewhat blind/out-of-touch there due to hardware limits much the same way as we're out-of-touch as to G-forces and slip-feel (when the G-force direction of 'down' shifts).

You can easily tap-tap-tap faster than the delay when you need more than 20 gm force trim change and then wait for the change to be done with no direct indication of when it will be done. What I've wanted since end of 2001 is trim that STARTS when I press and STOPS when I let go. Then I can START trim and ease up on my joystick so when my joystick is at center (no pressure on my hand as IRL) I let up on the trim and oh my, gasp, IT STOPS!

It's been TEN YEARS and a NEW GAME ENGINE so I was KIND OF HOPING!

Add: Some people punt for Red or Blue. Some people for their charts. I punt for really basic things like this above.

[M_Gunz]

Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Actually with trim tabs (as opposed to stabilizer trim like on 109's) the elevator is moved by the trim and if it's trimmed for nose down then the surface will be down and the stick will be forward. The tab helps but the surface has to move for tab trim to work.

I always assumed that was the purpose of trim tabs. Wouldn't having the elevator deflected in either direction affect speed and produce more drag? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it does, but if you need the nose down then the elevator has to push the tail up or something like power/speed must be changed to achieve the same change in balance. Try getting trimmed for straight and level flight and then add or subtract 5%-10% power and see what happens. OTOH you can get close to straight and level trim and adjust power to get closer or spot on.. at least until that bit of work changes the speed of your plane and then you trim or adjust power again. IRL you don't just turn a dial and fly perfectly flat from there on out.. it takes a while to get nearly flat with just how flat being a measure of your skill and outside influences. A long slow shallow up and down is more the reality I know.

The tab helps move the elevator surface. If the surface did not move then your flight would not change. The tab does not affect the movement or balance of the plane noticeably, it changes the force on the stick which hands-off actually moves the stick and elevator. You can feed in trim and hold the stick against it IRL which at times is desired. Some pilots use that as a technique for things like approach and landing.

[Rjel]

Thx M_Gunz. That explanation does make it a little clearer.

[stalkervision]

The trim system comes as an extra paid add-on

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

except on the 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[TS_Sancho]

Originally posted by Rjel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Actually with trim tabs (as opposed to stabilizer trim like on 109's) the elevator is moved by the trim and if it's trimmed for nose down then the surface will be down and the stick will be forward. The tab helps but the surface has to move for tab trim to work.

I always assumed that was the purpose of trim tabs. Wouldn't having the elevator deflected in either direction affect speed and produce more drag? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The forces required are the same whether it be a flettner tab, variable incidence stabilizer or one of the primary control surfaces.

I believe adjustable trim systems on aircraft help reduce pilot fatigue and workload but pay the same aerodynamic penalty in induced drag as the equivalent defection of the elevator/rudder/aileron.

Hope this helps.

[TS_Sancho]

Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Same as IL2? I'm hoping it will move on key press and stop on key release, that would really make me happy!

I'm with Gunz. Press to start movement and release when you get where you want to be with the appropriate cockpit references.

I believe it would be more realistic than what we have now (although the manuel gear operation can stay, its a hassle as it should be.)

How about manuel emergency hydraulic pressure and fuel transfer as part of the damage model as well? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Romanator21]

I realize how trim works IRL, but I rather like the way it is now in IL-2. If I want nose-down trim, I tap-tap-tap while letting up on the stick, or rudder. Even without delay, the change from one angle to another just happens too quickly when you just hold it down.

I doubt SoW will be different, but with clickable pits, it might be possible to click and drag the trim wheels.

[leitmotiv]

Originally posted by horseback:
Accurate visual indication on the trim wheels would be nice; if an in-cockpit animation isn't possible, a HUD indicator (at least while you're making the adjustment) would be very nice.

The old Il-2 '46 delayed by-guess-and-by-God method was always one of my bugaboos, especially on the ultra sensitive trims on the the US late war fighters.

cheers

horseback


Yes. That's a brilliant idea---a flash up HUD showing position of trim wheel, knob, or switch. Movable trim devices are cute, I used them in FSX, but you don't use them fluidly like the real devices (believe me, in the middle of a dogfight you don't want to be trying to turn a trim wheel with your mouse---I have had to do it in FSX and it is a good way to get shot down).

[M_Gunz]

Just what I need when my right hand is on the stick and left hand is on the throttle, a need to mouse around the screen.

I'm going from fast and straight into some tricky maneuvers that I will come out of moving slower. About 20 taps of nose up trim slower. How long should that take to accomplish? How much will be guesswork because I have no way to know when the trim delay is done?

Gee I am so glad that my guns only fire when I actually hold the trigger down. Boy I wish the trim worked that well, that direct and that intuitively.

SURE I can live with the IL2 trim, no question. I HAVE for TEN YEARS. But that doesn't stop me from wishing for better. And GET THIS PLEASE, it might be that way in the new game and I was SIMPLY WONDERING if it might be so. It's not a make or break game killer issue for me, just something I find desirable.