Is DA really so bad?? [Archive]

oO_ShadowFox_Oo

11-30-2007, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by TJones2k7:
Look i was like everyone else i though CT was better and DA was horrible. But if u think about it SC was meant to be a stealth multiplayer. But all that was happening was spys running aroud breaking necks and throwing smokes and flash down. At least in DA, they made i harder to do that so it forced u to play stealthy the way the game was meant to be played. So agrue if u want i want the Conviction MP to be the same as DA.

DA is not a stealth game. It is a chasing game. it is extremely easy for the merc to locate the spy without trying.

And saying that all that happened in CT was spies running around breaking necks, well how does one break a neck? By stealthily getting behind a merc and taking him by surprise

ox Se7eN xo

11-30-2007, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by TJones2k7:
Look i was like everyone else i though CT was better and DA was horrible.

what do you mean "like everyone else"? i know hundreds of people who say DA rocked, all reviews said it rocked, and i think it rocked as well

Multiplayer was different yeah, but you learn to love it.

i dont know why people go on about wanting SPies vs Mercs back

if you want to play Spies vs Mercs go play it on CT or PT if you want! Ubisoft made that MP already why make a THIRD iteration of it when they can take a different path (like they did)

and why bring it back in ConViction when they can make yet another groundbreaking MP?

AzureAssassin

11-30-2007, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by S7N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TJones2k7:
Look i was like everyone else i though CT was better and DA was horrible.

what do you mean "like everyone else"? i know hundreds of people who say DA rocked, all reviews said it rocked, and i think it rocked as well

Multiplayer was different yeah, but you learn to love it.

i dont know why people go on about wanting SPies vs Mercs back

if you want to play Spies vs Mercs go play it on CT or PT if you want! Ubisoft made that MP already why make a THIRD iteration of it when they can take a different path (like they did)

and why bring it back in ConViction when they can make yet another groundbreaking MP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why'd Bungie make a third Halo when they could have just had people go play Halo 1 and Halo 2?

pot4

11-30-2007, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by S7N:
what do you mean "like everyone else"? i know hundreds of people who say DA rocked, all reviews said it rocked, and i think it rocked as well

it did rock, its the best so far

Dvlos56

11-30-2007, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
DA is not a stealth game. It is a chasing game. it is extremely easy for the merc to locate the spy without trying.

And saying that all that happened in CT was spies running around breaking necks, well how does one break a neck? By stealthily getting behind a merc and taking him by surprise

Yeah DA had more chasing, but with no offense you had to do a lot of running and hiding. I think mercs had too much **** to find spies though. However you did have to employ stealth.. somewhat.. I prefered the older noise mechanic though.. where if you ran clumsily a merc could follow you.

As far as "how do you break necks by being stealthy" that's BS, you could sticky shock and throw cans of smoke, a merc could know you were coming to kill him a mile away and not be able to get out of harm's way sometimes with all the offensive gadgets the spies had.

The problem with both PT and CT was that it was always more fun for the spy.. eventually spies become TOO offensive oriented. I think with DA they went way overboard. Somewhere between DA's multiplayer and CT's SvM lies the perfect cat and mouse game.

Before you say "But thats how they MEANT for you to play it" I think the reason Ubi Shanghai went so far out into the "Spies are not offensive" extreme was to prove their point of how the game was supposed to be played.

Stealthguy1986

11-30-2007, 09:46 AM

Well, I loved D.A. and the undercover tactics were a refreshing change (although it needs improvement).

legacyzero

11-30-2007, 10:19 AM

I think DA's problem wasn't the game, but rather the game's problems (and lack of effort to fix them.)

DA would still be a popular MP title, but it's connection issues that lasted until just a month or so ago (and in some cases, still does)chased alot of players away.

Another problem with DA is the fact that you cant search for match lobbies that are loading up, but the method of randomly being put into a lobby.

Being randomly kicked from host games.

Window, rail, and couch Droners.

All in all, the idea of DA was perfect. But it's execution (or lack there of) and post support of the game, was lacking horribly. It took the 360 version of the game up until a couple of months ago to get new maps FFS.

But I have to give it to SCDA. It won me over soley on the fact that it was my first actual "STEALTH" MP game. I will love it until UBISOFT does something better.

stinger503

11-30-2007, 01:36 PM

To me the multiplayer is fine, it's the single player that bothered me. It felt too short, espicially for a game that used to be solely single player. The other problem was the endings, where were they? I whole-heartedly expected the JBA and "middle" endings to have bonus levels or heck, cut-scenes as well but all we got were those audio clips. There was alot more potential in this DA too, the pre-story was good, with the Iceland level, but there should have been a bank robbing level and more of the prison. That was disappointing because it was hyped up that you'd be in prison but the prison level itself was extremely short.

The game really surprised me with how short it was. Right after the Congo level was the end level, which I didn't expect at all. Only 7 levels not including the JBA inbetweens(which I don't include because they are in the same enviroment and fairly short). Chaos feature 10 long levels and Pandora featured 8 long missions and the original featured 10 plus the 3 extra missions.

TJones2k7

11-30-2007, 02:50 PM

DA is an awsome MP game if u know wat ur doing. Cause the only reason u would hate it is cause u suck at it. DA will actually get ur adrenaline going. just like when ur a spy u got a full file and half a bar of health and ur teammates r no where near u. can't beat that feeling.

scworld

11-30-2007, 04:49 PM

Uh, getting the last objective in CT in the last second while you see the Merc coming around the corner and he misses a headshot.
That beats SCDA.

Dvlos56

11-30-2007, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by scworld:
Uh, getting the last objective in CT in the last second while you see the Merc coming around the corner and he misses a headshot.
That beats SCDA.

I've seen the same thing happen in SCDA.. especially the ones where you have to run back to the spawn point in the streets with mercs chasing 1 spy down and everyone else is running distraction??

Did you play SCDA?

lochang19

11-30-2007, 09:07 PM

Sorry, my DA experience was hard to muddle through: 53 CTD's, 2 BSOD's, MP wouldn't even start more than 2/3's of the time, and all of this on a computer with well more than the recommended system requirements.

DA could've been good. For me and a LOT of other people, it wasn't even close.

Legacyzero is dead-on.

EskimoBob32

11-30-2007, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by S7N:
i dont know why people go on about wanting SPies vs Mercs back

if you want to play Spies vs Mercs go play it on CT or PT if you want! Ubisoft made that MP already why make a THIRD iteration of it when they can take a different path (like they did)

and why bring it back in ConViction when they can make yet another groundbreaking MP?
That's a very good point you raise. Why should they make a sequel? Why should anyone make a sequel? Screw this, I don't even want any more Splinter Cell, even if it is some of the best gameplay in the world. I'd much rather Ubi focus their efforts on a brand new game that I may or may not like. But even if it is awesome, you better hope it has damn good replay value because I certainly don't want to see a sequel.

It doesn't worry me if people have different opinions on whether they want to see SvM again, but I swear if I see one more person tell people to "go and play CT" I'm going to have to punch someone. And seeing as this is the internet, the person I end up hitting probably will be completely innocent.

what do you mean "like everyone else"? i know hundreds of people who say DA rocked, all reviews said it rocked You know Hundreds of people who liked DA? I sense a slight amount of exaggeration. I didn't even realise over a hundred people liked the game in total http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

As for the reviews, I don't think you could say all raved about the game. Sure, some thought it was good, some thought it was bad, but I didn't see many who thought it was great.

and i think it rocked as well Well, that's what it comes down to doesn't it. You choose to back up your own opinion with exaggeration and truth-bending, it would have been much more realistic to just tell the OP that YOU thought it rocked.

By the way, I'm talking about the 360 and in particular the PC version, if you were talking about the Xbox version please forgive my comments.

Sorry, my DA experience was hard to muddle through: 53 CTD's, 2 BSOD's, MP wouldn't even start more than 2/3's of the time, and all of this on a computer with well more than the recommended system requirements.

DA could've been good. For me and a LOT of other people, it wasn't even close.

Legacyzero is dead-on.
That's true, but the gameplay itself also left a lot to be desired. The multiplayer just didn't have the same intensity that CT had. I think that the simplistic nature of DA multi means that it never can be as intense.

scworld

12-01-2007, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Dvlos56:
Did you play SCDA?
Yes, 2-3 weeks. By then, most players had left, so it'd take almost 30 minutes to fill up a game. Which would crash. And DM-ing the Hard Bots also became repetitive and way too easy.

SCDA is more running around than tactics. Using the PD, you can set up things to lure a Merc in, but CT had way more tactical aids.

Sailormonkey

12-01-2007, 07:29 AM

nope it's not bad. so far the best mp in SC. the maps are really great!

ox Se7eN xo

12-01-2007, 08:12 AM

okay i see lots of people misreading what i said and also trying to prove me wrong so first things first:

Azure Assassin: Halo is a Trilogy and they made Halo 3 as it ENDS the Trilogy. also Halo is an FPS so unless Bungie make it Third Person, MP is gonna pretty much stay the same, ya get me?

also, when did i say "STOP MAKING MORE SPLINTER CELL GAMES!"?

oh that's right, I DIDN'T!!all i said was if you want to play Spies vs Mercs go play it on CT or PT simple as, or even better play ANOTHER type of Spies vs Mercs on DA

EskimoBob: you say this:
"That's a very good point you raise. Why should they make a sequel? Why should anyone make a sequel?"

where in my post does it say dont make anymore sequels? where did i say that? show me...where is it?

and yeah, i know hundreds of people that like the game cos a) i have friends who like the game b) there are LOTS (not number specific) of people on this forum that love it and c) i've played with HUNDREDS of people in MP of DA so yeah

hundreds of people like it..the same way that TJones is "Like everyone else" in not liking it

if ya gonna make a point at someone, make sure you make that point at the other people too

and finally i was talking about BOTH versions XBox and 360 cos they both rock in different ways although i havent played the MP on the XBox version of DA cos frankly i havent got round to doing it

EskimoBob32

12-01-2007, 05:42 PM

I think that you there are showing how you miss the point. You seem to think that a sequel is a sequel just because it is called <insertnamehere> 2. It isn't the case. They need to be the same type of game, for one. This is especially important for single player, I'll admit that, but in a multiplayer as popular and successful as Spies vs Mercs, it becomes just as important. Did you know some people buy Splinter Cell just for the multiplayer? Did you know many people would be willing to play full game price for a re-release of CT multiplayer with updated graphics and gameplay, lacking any singleplayer at all?

The reason I likened this to getting rid of sequels altogether is because by suggesting people "go back and play CT" you could very well be suggesting to people who like SC in any shape or form to "go back and play SC1". It is not unreasonable for people to want updated versions of their favourite games. That is why people buy sequels, I think if you buy a sequel in the hope of playing a completely different type of game you are in the minority.

AzureAssassin

12-01-2007, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
I think that you there are showing how you miss the point. You seem to think that a sequel is a sequel just because it is called <insertnamehere> 2. It isn't the case. They need to be the same type of game, for one. This is especially important for single player, I'll admit that, but in a multiplayer as popular and successful as Spies vs Mercs, it becomes just as important. Did you know some people buy Splinter Cell just for the multiplayer? Did you know many people would be willing to play full game price for a re-release of CT multiplayer with updated graphics and gameplay, lacking any singleplayer at all?

The reason I likened this to getting rid of sequels altogether is because by suggesting people "go back and play CT" you could very well be suggesting to people who like SC in any shape or form to "go back and play SC1". It is not unreasonable for people to want updated versions of their favourite games. That is why people buy sequels, I think if you buy a sequel in the hope of playing a completely different type of game you are in the minority.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Exactly. Thank you.

mag1kr3zin

12-01-2007, 07:51 PM

If DA wasnt so bad,no one would make a thread even asking if DA is really that bad...

ox Se7eN xo

12-01-2007, 08:05 PM

when did i show how i was missing the point? when did i say anything about a sequel "being a sequel" and when did i say that making a sequel is a bad idea?

EskimoBob (if that is your REAL name) and Azure, you guys need to realise that what i said has NOTHING to do with what YOU said

so here's what i wanted to say (but perhaps didnt say it properly or you guys are just ******s who cant read)

1) ALL the Splinter Cell games (imho) have rocked

2) MP has been awesome in the last three

3) Spies vs Mercs (old school) was awesome in both PT and CT

4) Spies vs Mercs (360) is awesome as it deviates from the original Spies vs Mercs

5) if you want to play Spies vs Mercs (old school) still then go play it. it's happily waiting for you in CT or PT

OR

6) if you want to try out the new version, go play DA, which has recieved wide-spread approval and critical acclaim despite what certain fanboys say on cetain forums (hey i never mentioned you guys, eh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

and finally

7) Conviction is a COMPLETELY different type of gaming (single player wise) than any other Splinter Cell game, so therefore you'd expect the MP to be different from previous games as well.

PT's MP fitted in perfectly with PT's SP as they were connected

CT's MP just made the MP from PT even better, making it pretty much perfect

how do you perfect on something that is already perfect? well that's it, you cant so you make a different type of MP game that is just enough to be different from the original but just enough to be the same as the original (i'm talking about 360 not Xbox btw)

and FINALLY FINALLY EskimoBob and Azure, i used to have great respect for you two guys but after the comments (and mistakes) you said in this thread it makes me sad

and not just cos i am the "uber" poster who has been here since the beginning and knows what the hells i is talking about but cos i'm a decent human being who posts on a web forum where to me winning in an argument is alot like the special olympics

it dont matter who comes out on top, we're all still ******s

mag1kr3zin

12-01-2007, 08:20 PM

Hey did you guys hear? The maddden series is gonna quit the football franchise!Yeah,now all the football teams are going to start playing Badminton...Yeah,basically they are gonna take the game that loyal fans played and remove everything the fans were use to and throw it over to another style that they THINK everyone will like without concidering upgrades and new modes and or equipment! And then gay noobs are gonna play the new version and say its better then the old versions because they were HORRIBLE at them,all the while thinking it takes skill to play the new game......oh wait,sounds like UBI's style.

ox Se7eN xo

12-01-2007, 08:32 PM

oh you, i see what you did there!

you took what i said, applied it to a game that has no substance and made me look like a fool

how cool of you!

now i realised why i stopped posting on this forum

cos you guys are just TOO INTELLIGENT for me

i mean c'mon! where have all the good old flamers gone? this isnt even fun anymore, its just hard work!

Mac! if you are reading this, can you please ban me before i say something stupid that may offend someone? i dont think these little kids could take it

mag1kr3zin

12-01-2007, 08:34 PM

What are you talking about?I posted this in another thread before this one..I didnt even read yours...

mag1kr3zin

12-01-2007, 08:38 PM

how do you perfect on something that is already perfect? well that's it, you cant so you make a different type of MP game that is just enough to be different from the original but just enough to be the same as the original

You cant be serious.Just because something is perfect does not mean you cant add to it and make it an even higher level of perfect...

ox Se7eN xo

12-01-2007, 08:38 PM

ya see Mac? this is what i'm talking about!

now we have guys who post the same thing in different threads without even knowing what the thread is about!

that's just BEYOND spam!

bring back Sticky and the old lot, at least you can ban someone properly then

Mac!

Mac?

MAC!!!!!

EskimoBob32

12-02-2007, 01:12 AM

I'm a forgiving kind of person, so I'm willing to put your last few posts down to drugs and/or alcohol. But your point still remains, and you seem to completely miss what we are saying, I don't know how I can explain it any better.

There is no way CT is perfect. You are quite right that if it were perfect, there would be no way to improve upon it and hence no reason to make a new version of the multiplayer. But it is not perfect; the graphics, for one, are outdated. There are some complaints from people about certain aspects. There are threads all over the legacy consoles on people posting their opinions on how to improve CT. See what I'm getting at? Another version is wanted, and people aren't going to get it. We have every right to be annoyed.

As for the "widespread approval and critical acclaim", I was under the impression that the general concensus among SC vets and reviewers alike is that DA multi is inferior to CT, and that it isn't as deep, tactical or simply as fun. Silly me. I must be one those very few "fanboys" who you refer to.

oO_ShadowFox_Oo

12-02-2007, 04:39 AM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Anyone who likes DA MP either

A) Sucked at CT multiplayer
B) Was decent at CT multiplayer, but will agree that DA multiplayer is inferior

I mean, I can understand how people thought some of the new features in it were cool. I really do, they are the kind of features that make people go "wow, that's pretty cool" but why does Ubisoft feel that they have to make changes so drastically?! They essentially butchered the MP that fans had grown to love over two titles and replaced it with a simplified non tactical free for all.

There was no stalking in the game, just running and hiding. Stealth is the art of art of going unnoticed, or so the developers say, but how you use it should be up to you and that's what CT did. If you wanted to stalk the merc and try for a neck break then you could. If you wanted to stay hidden like a mouse you could do it, just as well as you can in DA without all the ******edly over the top acrobatics.

As someone mentioned before, they essentially butchered the ShadowNet outfit with the last installment. It simply wasn't the cool unit that we loved to play as. And the same for the mercanaries. I use to love playing as a merc but the whole time you were playing DA you just felt detatched from the character you were playing. Everything felt so sterile and cold rather than the engrossing, intense of the previous two titles.

They had their flaws, everyone knows. I often cursed and threw my controller away because of the stupid glitches that they never bothered to fix. But at least I threw my fits because I enjoyed the game so much.

I just didn't play DA full stop. The game wasn't the game I was expecting and it just wasn't good as a new type of Spy vs Merc game for the countless reasons that have been listed on here since it release

ox Se7eN xo

12-02-2007, 08:14 AM

Eskimo, i COMPLETELY understand what you are getting at and i can see why you thought i meant that

if there's already a game out with that MP, why make more of the same game, that's what you said (in a mocking way may i add to show me i'm wrong)

i once never said stop making more of these games, yet you seem to think i have. i merely stated that UBi Soft have a different game on their hands here and want to make a different MP

and Shadowfox, i rocked at CT MP, and sucked at DA. i dont think one is inferior to the other, they are different types of gaming, simple as.

all i'm saying is if you want to play Spies vs Mercs old school go and play it on CT cos they are NOT making it anymore

not me, Ubisoft

oh and yeah i was drunk last night hence the ramble

savior2006

12-02-2007, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by TJones2k7:
DA will actually get ur adrenaline going. just like when ur a spy u got a full file and half a bar of health and ur teammates r no where near u. can't beat that feeling.
Yes you can.
Its called playing in Pandora Tomorrow and hiding behind a slim wall protrusion, while a merc comes right next to you and refills on ammo, and you knowing that (if he had turned around) he would have seen you.
Its called you hiding behind a box, and a flashlight beam turns on it, you knowing that the merc is looking at your general direction.
Its called you distracting a merc to look somewhere else while you taser and grab him from behind.
Its called sneaking (not running) to an objective, with one minute on the clock, because the mercenaries hear your footsteps instead of sensing your proximity.
Its called, a merc has seen you and your running through a hospital in construction trying to lose him.
Its called gaining the last objective just before the mercenary's grenade hits the floor and goes off.
As a merc:
Its called, a spy is going for the last viral tube and you manage to kill him with one second left on the objective timer.
Its called you plant a mine near some stairs, and the sound detector picks up something above you. A laser appears on the wall and begins crawling towards the mine you just planted. You turn around and charge away. The mine explodes. Instead of dying you lose a quarter health and see the spy on the secondary ceiling.
Double Agent may give you adrenaline but so does Pandora and Chaos. Pandora is the only online game that ever made me fear for my life, that ever made me sweat profusely. Its like an interactive suspense thriller by Dean Koontz or Stephen King or something.

ox Se7eN xo

12-02-2007, 09:06 AM

This is not just a snapped neck

this is Marks and Spencers supreme stealth snapped neck with extra smack talk added for flavour

not just Spies vs Mercs, but M and S Spies vs Mercs

savior2006

12-02-2007, 10:19 AM

I am not talking smack. Every one of these situations has happened to me in Pandora. Call me old-fashioned or a fan-boy afraid of change or whatever, but I want the original style back and that's just the way I am.

oO_ShadowFox_Oo

12-02-2007, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by S7N:
This is not just a snapped neck

this is Marks and Spencers supreme stealth snapped neck with extra smack talk added for flavour

not just Spies vs Mercs, but M and S Spies vs Mercs

LOL

Very good http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

scworld

12-02-2007, 11:40 AM

Let's see.

CT (released more than 2 years ago): 150-200 players online. (PC)
DA (released 1 year ago): ??? players online (no lobby). Still usually a "Quick Match" doesn't show any servers. So I'll take that as less than 20 people playing.

I guess CT wins based on numbers.

savior, try looking around the PC forum.

EskimoBob32

12-02-2007, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by S7N:
Eskimo, i COMPLETELY understand what you are getting at and i can see why you thought i meant that

if there's already a game out with that MP, why make more of the same game, that's what you said (in a mocking way may i add to show me i'm wrong)

i once never said stop making more of these games, yet you seem to think i have. i merely stated that UBi Soft have a different game on their hands here and want to make a different MP

and Shadowfox, i rocked at CT MP, and sucked at DA. i dont think one is inferior to the other, they are different types of gaming, simple as.

all i'm saying is if you want to play Spies vs Mercs old school go and play it on CT cos they are NOT making it anymore

not me, Ubisoft

oh and yeah i was drunk last night hence the ramble
Fair enough, I suppose. But you must understand how easy it was for me and Azure to take it the way we did; there ARE constantly people on this forum who make stupid comments like "If you love CT so much go play CT" with the meaning that they LOVE the new gameplay (which we have seen next to nothing of, especially in multi) and are happy with the change so we should either be happy too or go back and play the older, outdated version.

And yes, I thought it was alcohol or something.

EskimoBob (if that is your REAL name) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

ox Se7eN xo

12-02-2007, 12:47 PM

savior i wasnt saying you were smack talking, i was jokingly referring to when you grab a Merc and speak to them

i only ever played CT with my mates (apart from Ranked matches) and we used to say stupid things to each other if we got a neck snap

and Eskimo, you do realise the "if that's your REAL name" was a joke right?

unless of course you actually are called Eskimo Bob

Bob_Bobber0

12-02-2007, 01:01 PM

damn wassup S7N, havent seen you in forever

AzureAssassin

12-02-2007, 02:49 PM

No offense to DA fanboys, but I'm assuming the only reason people really truly think DA is better (MP wise anyways) is because they never actually took the time to play PT or CT, or weren't very good at them. Ultimately, people who were around during the Pandora/Chaos days just simply want SvM back because once you've really sat down and fully experienced these games' multiplayer you realize how amazing and unique of a MP it is. It IS time for a new installment of this type of multiplayer, and there are many things left to improve upon. I don't trust Ubi with making any completely new type of multiplayer, I really don't. Lightning doesn't strike twice, so I don't see how Ubi can expect anything new to be as popular as the original SvM.

savior2006

12-02-2007, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by S7N:
savior i wasnt saying you were smack talking, i was jokingly referring to when you grab a Merc and speak to them
Sorry! My mistake then. I never had a headset so I could never do that.
#1 thing to say to a grabbed merc: Should've used the Pythagorean theorem, *****.
#2 thing to say to a grabbed merc: Could've had a V8.

ox Se7eN xo

12-02-2007, 04:04 PM

hey Bob! it has been a long time!

Bob_Bobber0

12-02-2007, 04:45 PM

seriously man! it seems you and Aj are among the few from the old guard that are still here, how things been around here?

scworld

12-02-2007, 05:20 PM

Bobber, some people had to change names. I am frvge. Joined 2002-2003. And still kicking butt.

Bob_Bobber0

12-02-2007, 05:21 PM

ah, i remember you man, wassup, haha you are over on those other forums too eh...

rasheed2006

12-02-2007, 05:24 PM

I want to know who fallowed Spinter Cell from its first release untill NOW and still think SC5 will be an improvement.. I find it those who think the next SC could be better (improve) are those who became SC fans "late"..

Not in all cases, but MOST..

Shadow_Agent1

12-02-2007, 06:08 PM

DA was by far the worst game... There were so many things wrong with it, and it was also the game that destroyed the storyline. And why woulf you want Conviction MP to be liked DA? Da's MP was afful... I'm not even sure if there is going to even be a MP for conviction! C is crowd stealth and missing even the basics for the traditional SP MP, even DA had the basics covered for the MP, but they changed it too much and it turned out to be bad anyway... It just wouldn't make sense fr there to be a MP in C, even if it was as horrible as DA's.

EskimoBob32

12-02-2007, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by S7N:
and Eskimo, you do realise the "if that's your REAL name" was a joke right?
Of course I realised, hence the 'applause' and the connection the alcohol thing.

unless of course you actually are called Eskimo Bob
www.eskimobob.com (http://www.eskimobob.com)
An internet cartoon that I used to love about 5 years ago. Haven't been to the site in a while but I used the name as an email address so now use it as everything out of habit.

ox Se7eN xo

12-03-2007, 12:04 PM

ah, i thought the clapping was to say "you're an idiot, of course my name isn't EskimoBob!"

EskimoBob32

12-03-2007, 09:01 PM

Fair enough, no problem.

rasheed2006

12-04-2007, 10:46 AM

DA is not "BAD" But it is not SPLINTER CELL standard good.. A game on it's own.. It was fun.. They did the 'fallow around the bad guys' just walking back and forth too much.. But a game on it's own, Not BAD.. But compaired to the other SC. HELL YA! It did not compaire.. Story was interesting, and took Sam Fisher to another level.. But that level set up a downfall for FUTURE games.. Like conviction

pot4

12-04-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by rasheed2006:
That level set up a downfall for FUTURE games.. Like conviction

Not really, the idea of escaping a prison, double-crossing terrorists and end up on the run from the law is brilliant. UBI did well on that and using a clever idea of walking in public and keeping a low profile like in AC will make it fun. I don't know why people think SCC will be rubbish.

CatLikeThief

12-04-2007, 02:09 PM

oO_ShadowFox_Oo

12-04-2007, 04:53 PM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

After they've pushed it back to another release date I'm guessing that they've realised that they're going to have to produce the level of gaming their fans expect after the first 3 fantastic titles.

After playing AC and realising how much potential the new gameplay has, I'm acutally kind of excited to play a real SC version of it.

That being said they could have left it for another installment. I can understand that Montreal obviously wanted two teams working on the crowd mechanics so as to make it as good as possible, but the shambles that was DA wasn't enough to pass as a "next gen" L/S game that all the Splinter Cell fans wanted.

But what really aggrivates everyone is the abandoning of Spy vs Merc gameplay. For such innovation into a new style of gameplay 2 releases is not enough! Look how many FPS there are!

Although I can picture a solely MP "ShadowNet" release sitting on our shelves in the future as the demand is definitly there for it

EskimoBob32

12-04-2007, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by pot4:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rasheed2006:
That level set up a downfall for FUTURE games.. Like conviction

Not really, the idea of escaping a prison, double-crossing terrorists and end up on the run from the law is brilliant. UBI did well on that and using a clever idea of walking in public and keeping a low profile like in AC will make it fun. I don't know why people think SCC will be rubbish. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think "brilliant" is pushing it a bit. It's the kind of plot device that movies use all the time. That would be forgiveable, but for me the prison break-out didn't even feel like a prison, and the terrorists seemed to be a bunch of morons who happened to have a smart nuclear scientist rather than the kind of clever politics players we saw in the past.

Its primarily the multiplayer that people think will be "rubbish". But single player wise, people are just used to the type of lights and shadow gameplay they first experienced in previous splinter cells, and just want a next-gen extention of that.
While what you say is true, I'm not sure you can make the statement that it is "primarily" the multiplayer people think will be "rubbish". Nobody has seen any of the multiplayer yet, so it's a bit early to call it rubbish unless the only type of game you like is SvM. I know you were just using pot4s word, but I am not even sure that most people are only concerned about multiplayer. I like both myself, although I may be in the minority, I can't be sure.

pot4

12-05-2007, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by CatLikeThief:
Its primarily the multiplayer that people think will be "rubbish". But single player wise, people are just used to the type of lights and shadow gameplay they first experienced in previous splinter cells, and just want a next-gen extention of that.

you never know, maybe UBI will put in the light and shadow gameplay only sam will just move and fight differently

rasheed2006

12-05-2007, 07:05 AM

When I say "set up a downfall for SC" I am not talking about STORY.. Yes the STORY of DA was GREAT. Possibly the Best story of all the SC. BUT the story is simply an AID to the game. The game in itself was taken in a bad direction. The aspects they took OUT were the wrong ones.

GAME PLAY is #1 - THEN Story

Not STORY - then Gameplay

It's not a movie. (well not yet lol)..

We (the gamer) would play SC without a real story. But we would not play the game without the PLAY.

legacyzero

12-05-2007, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by savior2006:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by S7N:
savior i wasnt saying you were smack talking, i was jokingly referring to when you grab a Merc and speak to them
Sorry! My mistake then. I never had a headset so I could never do that.
#1 thing to say to a grabbed merc: Should've used the Pythagorean theorem, *****.
#2 thing to say to a grabbed merc: Could've had a V8. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL
What me and my buddy like to do on DA is, we'll come up with a centralized theme for that particular round.

For instance. One match will be "famous movie quotes" So when I grab a merc, i'll say something like

"YOU CANT HAANDLE THE TRUTH!!" (*cheesy Jack Nicleson accent*)

or

"FRRREEEEEEEEEDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!"

Or perhaps for a certain match, we'll do funny songs or phrases like-

"here I sit broken hearted... Tried to SH@7 but only farted...."

ahhhhh good times.

davidov

12-09-2007, 12:58 PM

DA IS a great game, you autistic ***gats just cant handle a little change. Everyting about DA (next gen version) was good, the story was one of the best, and I love the story, unfortunatly some many people had to die... you can cry and post **** about it all day, but SPLINTER CELL HAS CHANGED, and thats a good thing. SC was the first game ever I really enjoyed, and of course I miss the old gampelay, but the guys at Ubisoft Shanghai did some pretty good stuff. I cant wait untill my favorite developers at ubisoft montreal come up with ConViction (Note to them: Take your time guys, so we wont get a half-finished game.

Splinter Cell changend. Accept it. You don't have a choise. DA is a good game, and so will ConViction be!

Amen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

scworld

12-09-2007, 01:42 PM

K, if DA is that good, why was I not able to finish DA due to the Loading/Saving bug in Kinshasa3?

For the record: I finished all other games at least 4 times while stealthing through. No kills, minimized KOs. I need a lot of quickloads for that, on the first time through. DA crashes.

So the only thing I EVER returned was SCDA. Don't tell me that it's good, let alone "brilliant". (PC version)

savior2006

12-09-2007, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by davidov:
DA IS a great game, you autistic ***gats just cant handle a little change. Everyting about DA (next gen version) was good, the story was one of the best, and I love the story, unfortunatly some many people had to die... you can cry and post **** about it all day, but SPLINTER CELL HAS CHANGED, and thats a good thing. SC was the first game ever I really enjoyed, and of course I miss the old gampelay, but the guys at Ubisoft Shanghai did some pretty good stuff. I cant wait untill my favorite developers at ubisoft montreal come up with ConViction (Note to them: Take your time guys, so we wont get a half-finished game.

Splinter Cell changend. Accept it. You don't have a choise. DA is a good game, and so will ConViction be!
Amen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif My ****** sense is going off. Just because we don't like the changes made to Double Agent doesn't make us your incorrect spelling of the word "******s".
Davidov, light and shadow was the one unique element that as really going for Splinter Cell (not even Metal Gear has it). You yourself admitted you missed the old gameplay, so can you blame us for whining about it for an entire year? And making a Project mod, that wouldn't be in production in the first place had the developers stuck to what us so-called "******s loved"?
Some things aren't meant to change. Legend of Zelda will always feature Link saving Zelda. Halo will always have the Spartan, Master Chief, gunning down the Covenant. Ratchet and Clank will always have interesting guns with odd (even comical) effects.
You like Double Agent, and its changes? Fine, but don't go around insulting others because they don't.

CatLikeThief

12-09-2007, 04:26 PM

savior2006

12-09-2007, 04:27 PM

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gifI second that motion.

scworld

12-09-2007, 06:34 PM

He is entitled to his opinion. But yeah, he doesnt have all the problems many PC players have, so he's a bit biased. I am not, because I know first-hand about the problems. There.

EskimoBob32

12-09-2007, 08:47 PM

davidov

12-10-2007, 01:49 PM

CatLikeThief: ''I bet Ubi could take a **** down your throat and you would still like it.''

Hell yeah I would!

EskimoBob32: ''I'm not even going to bother.''

Don't

savior2006 ''doesn't make us your incorrect spelling of the word "******s''

That's just lame.

Like me, you guys can state your opinion, but you're just ruing it for the people who did liked the game. I am not going to bore you with facts why DA IS a good game (since I am not intrested in yours either).
The fact remains, DA was what DA was, and ConViction will be what it will be. Not gonna change.
And since I am not a huge fan of prequels (however it's spelled).. Ubisoft went to far down this road to go back, and even if they would, it would make the o-so-dramatic DA and upcoming CV look lame.

savior2006

12-10-2007, 05:22 PM

Much better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif
Now why didn't you say that instead of insulting the "old school" fans?

goclo822

12-10-2007, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by davidov:
DA IS a great game, you autistic ***gats just cant handle a little change. Everyting about DA (next gen version) was good, the story was one of the best, and I love the story, unfortunatly some many people had to die... you can cry and post **** about it all day, but SPLINTER CELL HAS CHANGED, and thats a good thing. SC was the first game ever I really enjoyed, and of course I miss the old gampelay, but the guys at Ubisoft Shanghai did some pretty good stuff. I cant wait untill my favorite developers at ubisoft montreal come up with ConViction (Note to them: Take your time guys, so we wont get a half-finished game.

Splinter Cell changend. Accept it. You don't have a choise. DA is a good game, and so will ConViction be!

Amen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif I gotta agree here! Yes it's different and yes I miss the old style a bit but I liked the change! We had 3 games of the stealth, hiding in the shadows, going undetected, etc, etc and it was great while it lasted but the transition and change splinter cell is going through is nice, it's refreshing really! Most games (and movies) end after part 3 because after that, it just gets repedetive. I may be the only one but I'd take a changed splinter cell over an ended splinter cell any day. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Double Agent imo was a good game and Conviction looks even better! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif But you all have a right to your own opinion, if you don't like it, thats fine. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm just sad that you guys couldn't enjoy it like we could.

marinius

12-11-2007, 05:05 AM

Originally posted by davidov:

Like me, you guys can state your opinion, but you're just ruing it for the people who did liked the game. I am not going to bore you with facts why DA IS a good game (since I am not intrested in yours either).
The fact remains, DA was what DA was, and ConViction will be what it will be. Not gonna change.

You're not simply stating your opinion. If you did, there would be no problem. What you do in a less than elegant manner is to call anyone who disagrees with you an "autistic ***gat". I'm not quite sure, but I believe that's meant as an insult. This disqualifies you from being taken seriously, although your little pearl of wisdom at the end of my quote might indicate that you are in fact a great mind after all.

enareu

12-12-2007, 06:09 PM

The new mercenary gadgets don't allow spies to hide, it more or less lets a merc run around until the heartbeat monitor pops up and then they just follow that. So much of what made splinter cell multiplayer awesome was the hiding and lurking spies could do. They could be right beside a merc and no one even knew they were there, if they were stealthy.

The loss of lasers, cameras, motion detectors, and mines was also detrimental in my book. Spies could just run around doing whatever they wanted in DA, as long as a merc wasn't around. Then they couldn't do anything because they were more or less on radar. And after a month or two everyone knew the hiding places spies would use to hack from so that didn't help spies much either.

For people who say that spies were too offensive in pandora tomorrow and chaos theory, I half agree. But a good merc could easily defeat a good spy. I play a lot of halo so I'm a pretty good shot and I also play a good amount of splinter cell so I'm pretty good at that too. I've not met a spy who was good enough to win the game only by breaking mine and my teammates neck in over a year or two. And I've played against some good spies. But I do agree that its a little ridiculous when a spy runs at a merc with a gun and shocks him, then shoots a flashbang, smoke, and chaff grenade at him in less than a second. So I agree that should be changed.

Overall though I just think that chaos theory and pandora tomorrow were leagues better than DA. So I hope conviction doesn't follow in DA's pattern.

Shadow_Agent1

12-13-2007, 02:05 PM

C only has the option of following the path of DA, because the storyline was screwed up so bad it's impossible to go back.

scworld

12-13-2007, 05:01 PM

A game should never be made for story. Else you would call games 'interactive stories'. Games are made for gameplay.

Shadow_Agent1

12-13-2007, 05:24 PM

True, but the gameplay gets better if you have a storyline to play by, and even better, ONE THAT MAKES SENSE!!! Splinter Cell is a horrible example to try to make a point of storylines being almost un-important. I don't think a game like SC could be done w/ out a storyline. If you DID wwant to play a game with not plot that was made for gameplay, try, "Pong".

CatLikeThief

12-13-2007, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by AzureAssassin:
"Is DA really so bad??"

Yes.

Thread should have ended after this.

Shadow_Agent1

12-13-2007, 06:25 PM

The sad thing is, it's true... That basically said it all.

Dvlos56

12-14-2007, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by scworld:
A game should never be made for story. Else you would call games 'interactive stories'. Games are made for gameplay.

What? This isn't the Atari 2600/Arcade Days anymore, video game as a medium is growing in popularity and doing so by bridging interaction (gameplay) with stories.

I think games with decent stories started showing up in the NES/SNES era and have snowballed to the Halo/Half Life "action" storylines or the detailed and interesting Mass Effect type games.

Games should have a good story that makes you emotionally involved in the gameplay.. sorry scworld, I disagree with you 100% on that.

scworld

12-14-2007, 08:40 AM

k, let me rephrase:

a game without a story (or very little story) can be fun (TF2, loads of shooters, also classics like Pong and Super Mario)
a game without gameplay is not, that's called "movie".

The best thing is:
good gameplay with good story (Thief? I dont know)

next best:
good gameplay with mediocre story (CT)

next:
mediocre gameplay with good story (possibly Conviction)

and finally:
bad gameplay with bad story (possibly Conviction)

So I prefer gameplay over story, but a good story is a nice plus.

VickyTricky

12-14-2007, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Dvlos56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by scworld:
A game should never be made for story. Else you would call games 'interactive stories'. Games are made for gameplay.

What? This isn't the Atari 2600/Arcade Days anymore, video game as a medium is growing in popularity and doing so by bridging interaction (gameplay) with stories.

I think games with decent stories started showing up in the NES/SNES era and have snowballed to the Halo/Half Life "action" storylines or the detailed and interesting Mass Effect type games.

Games should have a good story that makes you emotionally involved in the gameplay.. sorry scworld, I disagree with you 100% on that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true, my favorite games, Mafia and Max Payne. I loved Max Payne for the Frank Miller feel to the story and Mafia felt like a 1930's Grand Theft Auto with a fresh mature story. They where probably the best games I remember playing, not only was the gameplay new and interesting. But the storylines where very compelling, that alone made me want to keep progressing through the game to see the stories end, which where imho satisfying. If you played for the gameplay alone in those, it would get boring after a while due to the repetition, there is no incentive to move on with just the gameplay, and you would be cheating yourself out of good games.

oO_ShadowFox_Oo

12-14-2007, 10:16 AM

Fair enough, but you cant hang a game on it's story and expect that to be the key selling point. A good story will enhance a game's gameplay and draw you into playing it into the long hours of the night, but not if the gameplay isn't what you want to be playing.

There's plenty of movies out there with great storylines that suffer because the rest of the movie isn't up to scratch.

Why everyone is saying that it's ok to atler the gameplay of a classic game (in my opinion) on the ground of storytelling is beyond me!

I'll also acknowledge that UbiSoft obviously wanted to change the gameplay before they fleshed out the story, but it still baffles me that people are using it as grounds for an argument of changing the game.

It has to be one of the craziest moves to abandon so many L&S fans when so many of them felt dissapointed by DA.

I'm all for change, but not when the last change you made was so diabolically unsuccessful.

Dvlos56

12-14-2007, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
It has to be one of the craziest moves to abandon so many L&S fans when so many of them felt dissapointed by DA.

I'm all for change, but not when the last change you made was so diabolically unsuccessful.

I consider myself a long time fan, my first 2 games on the Xbox 1 were Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell. I think SCDA is a pretty good single player game on the 360, but it wasn't up to the same caliber as even PT. Meanwhile the Xbox 1 version was more fleshed out and interesting. However most of the game is still L&S, the JBA missions were essentially L&S. I didn't think it was the greatest but I got my money's worth, and I didn't hate the multiplayer I just prefer my traps/more espionage SCPT/SCCT SvM style.

My biggest hatred of SCCT/SCPT were little kids screaming "LET'S DEATHMATCH HURR!!!", and I guess that's what led to Shanghai's mp ideas *shrug*.

The morality system wasn't necessarily "bad" it just didn't really amount to anything but a gimmick. It was (IMHO) forgettable, not game breaking. Also most of the things seen in SCDA were not "new" thus not as exciting as previous SC games. What you want me to sneak up and laser mic someone? Haven't dont that before.

Creep into someone's office and take a document? Snore.

Yeah I do think the move to change gameplay might be a good idea, they could always slate SC6 as a hybrid game, or have Sam carrying out his final missions for Fourth Echelon.

oO_ShadowFox_Oo

12-14-2007, 11:51 AM

If Shanghai changed the gameplay of SvM in DA to suit the little kids playing DM then I would really really really be dissapointed. Deathmatch was never what the game was about and it bred the aggro into spies that so many people detested.

I peronsally never had a problem with aggro. Any time I died as a merc due to aggro was either because of lag or a poor decision on my part, by thinking the opposition was trying to do something else.

Taking away the ability of spies to engage a merc just forces you to run, which is pathetic. Stealth isn't about running away, it's about going unnoticed (NOTE: Don't anyone try and jump in here and say that's what Conviction is about, because Splinter Cell franchise has always been about going unnoticed using SHADOWS, which is the main reason everyone's so aggrivated by Ubi for tagging the Splinter Cell name on this game). If I aggro and 3xGren a merc he doesn't know what's going on. I can either

A) try and break his neck, and most likely get killed in the process if the merc is halfway decent.

B) make use of the valueable 10 second break to achieve something.

n00bs and young kids will always try for A) because that's what they think the game is about; breaking necks. That's only one aspect of the gameplay (a thoroughly enjoyable one I might add) that helped spies achieve victory by giving you a 2v1 situation for about 30 seconds.

@Dvlos56: What do you think you'll be doing in Conviction? I'm pretty confident that you'll be sneaking into offices to steal documents and 100% positive that you'll have to record at least 2 conversations in Conviction.

There won't be anything *new* in Conviction as far as objectives go, and I'm sure that alot of it will be taking place in Government buildings, much like the first 3 Splinter Cells.

No, the only thing that they'll be changing in Conviction is the gameplay, the one thing that I really held Splinter Cell games in such high regard for.

EskimoBob32

12-14-2007, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Dvlos56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
It has to be one of the craziest moves to abandon so many L&S fans when so many of them felt dissapointed by DA.

I'm all for change, but not when the last change you made was so diabolically unsuccessful.

I consider myself a long time fan, my first 2 games on the Xbox 1 were Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell. I think SCDA is a pretty good single player game on the 360, but it wasn't up to the same caliber as even PT. Meanwhile the Xbox 1 version was more fleshed out and interesting. However most of the game is still L&S, the JBA missions were essentially L&S. I didn't think it was the greatest but I got my money's worth, and I didn't hate the multiplayer I just prefer my traps/more espionage SCPT/SCCT SvM style.

My biggest hatred of SCCT/SCPT were little kids screaming "LET'S DEATHMATCH HURR!!!", and I guess that's what led to Shanghai's mp ideas *shrug*.

The morality system wasn't necessarily "bad" it just didn't really amount to anything but a gimmick. It was (IMHO) forgettable, not game breaking. Also most of the things seen in SCDA were not "new" thus not as exciting as previous SC games. What you want me to sneak up and laser mic someone? Haven't dont that before.

Creep into someone's office and take a document? Snore.

Yeah I do think the move to change gameplay might be a good idea, they could always slate SC6 as a hybrid game, or have Sam carrying out his final missions for Fourth Echelon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're right, the morality wasn't game breaking. The bugs were. The shortness was. For most, the repetition of JBA HQ was. For me and many others, the light missions were.

About storyline, I think it's fine to enjoy a storyline within a game, which I have done myself, but you shouldn't buy a game just for its story. You want good, immersive stories with everything else secondary? Read a book, watch a movie. Those mediums will usually provide better stories than even the best stories in a video game. Take Bioshock, for example. It was praised for having an original and compelling storyline, with plenty of immersion. I agree with this. However, compare this to a good novel or movie and it doesn't come close. Look at Hitman, for another example. While storyline wasn't really a focal point, the games have what many would consider pretty good storylines for games. Then they made it into a movie, one with a pretty abysmal story I might add. And they shouldn't be surprised. The main character is genetically created and trained to be a superior killer. How is that going to translate to anything more than a one-dimensional character on-screen? As much as you might love Sam, I can't help but think a similar sort of thing would happen to him. As Tom Maurstad puts it so well:

"...confirming what common sense could tell you without spending millions of dollars on a special-effects-filled movie: A series of novels is much richer source material than a series of video games."

soron

12-15-2007, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by EskimoBob32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dvlos56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oO_ShadowFox_Oo:
It has to be one of the craziest moves to abandon so many L&S fans when so many of them felt dissapointed by DA.

I'm all for change, but not when the last change you made was so diabolically unsuccessful.

I consider myself a long time fan, my first 2 games on the Xbox 1 were Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell. I think SCDA is a pretty good single player game on the 360, but it wasn't up to the same caliber as even PT. Meanwhile the Xbox 1 version was more fleshed out and interesting. However most of the game is still L&S, the JBA missions were essentially L&S. I didn't think it was the greatest but I got my money's worth, and I didn't hate the multiplayer I just prefer my traps/more espionage SCPT/SCCT SvM style.

My biggest hatred of SCCT/SCPT were little kids screaming "LET'S DEATHMATCH HURR!!!", and I guess that's what led to Shanghai's mp ideas *shrug*.

The morality system wasn't necessarily "bad" it just didn't really amount to anything but a gimmick. It was (IMHO) forgettable, not game breaking. Also most of the things seen in SCDA were not "new" thus not as exciting as previous SC games. What you want me to sneak up and laser mic someone? Haven't dont that before.

Creep into someone's office and take a document? Snore.

Yeah I do think the move to change gameplay might be a good idea, they could always slate SC6 as a hybrid game, or have Sam carrying out his final missions for Fourth Echelon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're right, the morality wasn't game breaking. The bugs were. The shortness was. For most, the repetition of JBA HQ was. For me and many others, the light missions were.

About storyline, I think it's fine to enjoy a storyline within a game, which I have done myself, but you shouldn't buy a game just for its story. You want good, immersive stories with everything else secondary? Read a book, watch a movie. Those mediums will usually provide better stories than even the best stories in a video game. Take Bioshock, for example. It was praised for having an original and compelling storyline, with plenty of immersion. I agree with this. However, compare this to a good novel or movie and it doesn't come close. Look at Hitman, for another example. While storyline wasn't really a focal point, the games have what many would consider pretty good storylines for games. Then they made it into a movie, one with a pretty abysmal story I might add. And they shouldn't be surprised. The main character is genetically created and trained to be a superior killer. How is that going to translate to anything more than a one-dimensional character on-screen? As much as you might love Sam, I can't help but think a similar sort of thing would happen to him. As Tom Maurstad puts it so well:

"...confirming what common sense could tell you without spending millions of dollars on a special-effects-filled movie: A series of novels is much richer source material than a series of video games." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Well stated. I have said before that the story line does not make the game the gameplay does. Make the gameplay and then the story line can be added not the other way around. Thats just bassackwards.

Shadow_Agent1

12-16-2007, 08:02 AM

So your saying to make a game with random levels that you have no idea about what it's going to be, and then make a storyline from what you made? THAT doesn't make sense, especially for a complex game like Splinter Cell, where the storylines have many things going on at once, and are extremely well thought out (well, at least the first 3)...

EskimoBob32

12-17-2007, 02:59 AM

Of course not, the level design will always follow the story. But as well thought out as the stories might be, the characterisation will never come close to that of a good movie or book. Note, never. No matter how much they try to make Conviction about Sam.

Dvlos56

12-17-2007, 09:42 AM

I didn't have glitches and bugs in SCDA (360 version) I hosted multiplayer and no one ever complained about lag in our matches.

SvM was dumbed down to lower the learning curve as well as to keep the game cat and mouse style. The problem with SCPT and SCCT SvM is that spies had no real reason to maintain stealthy .. they only used that to quickly get close to mercs, they had speed and agility and could.. if the merc took his back off the wall and was seperated from his partner... could easily get ripped apart by aggro spies.

I remember playing in matches (granted I had a bad partner) where spies did little to mask their movements they just bum rushed mercs and started spamming smoke/shocks.

That wasn't fun for me, even if I could beat the spies it wasn't AS fun as the earlier stages of SCPT and SCCT on LIVE when spies were scared of mercs and spent their time sneaking around and doing hit and run attacks. That kind of gameplay is more possible in SCDA's multiplayer BUT.. it isn't as fun because the maps are too big, they don't give you many areas to hide in, and you have nothing to truly distract mercs with. You feel useless. The merc PD and drone IMO ruin the game, spies should have been given 2 gadgets, but I do agree the point of the game should always remain "cat and mouse". SCPT/SCCT pretty much had it, they should have just "tweaked" that style of play further.

Like you mentioned making it possible for mercs to break out of neck grabs, or made mercs more ferocious but still kept SCPT SvM concepts in play.

scworld

12-17-2007, 11:10 AM

Wow, guess the players there suck.

The gameplay of SvM is like this:
- go to objective preferably unseen, altho sometimes speed is more important
- hack objective while partner aggressively covers, or hack 2 objs at the same time.
- retreat or use speed to outmanouvre the merc to get to another objective.

tenclub23

12-24-2007, 09:28 PM

i actually liked D.A. alot...but like you guys said it didnt have that stealthy feel. when i play as a spy, i play to kill. its fun...but it be alot better if u could like creep around and have the mercs not even know your there. but in conviction for me, its good and bad. ive always wanted a game where ur a fugitive like jason bourne and have to move threw crowds. But from what ive seen...eh idk its not lookin to good. when sam shoots that propane tank to make a distraction..ino this technique will be SOOOO overly used and will probably be sumthing ur using like every 10 min to get guys away from you. also how he now has super strength and just like throws **** at ppl and throws ppl across rooms. ur this high tech secret agent. u shoudnlt have to chuck chairs and tables at them. u should be able to run up to them and take...them...apart in seconds. and like in the bourne movies take there guns or dispose of them.

multiplayer is a different story here..like i really hope they could bring back the D.A one but better with more skins and upgrade it all. make the spy a little more dangerous.? u had 3 ways to kill the merc. crackin his neck, pulling him over sumthing or falling on him...(twice).

make them be able to hang off shiit like in the solo mode and pick them up and choke them or like get that shock gun like in chaos theory. but it prob wont even be like this. itll most likeley but this new "social Stealth" weve all been hearing about which is just so amazing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

assassins creed, fun game! ...becuase of free running basically...the only reason i still play it. social stealth really...doesnt...work. if anyone has seen the bourne ultimatum the scene in the station with the news paper writer...thats how intense it should feel. the bad guys should not even no ur there. and while trying to complete ur mission if sumthing goes wrong. then if u need too, take out like 6 guys in a min. and have everyone else scrambiling and going crazy except...you.