Splinter Cell Conviction - Thoughts

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Now I know theres been many posts about the same thing but the ones I've seen have all been basically "it sucks." or "it's amazing." each from two opposite sides of the gaming spectrum: the hardcore, original fans and the new, more casual gamers. I guess i should actually start with Double Agent. Why does it get such a bad rap? As a classic splinter cell fan (first one is the king of all stealth games) i can say i really enjoyed it (not as much as the first three) but it was still a good way to change up the series without losing what made splinter cell, well, splinter cell. I mean when i played it, i still felt like i was playing splinter cell....even with kinshasha and ellsworth penitentiary missions without the goggles and kinshasha and cozumel being set during the day.

The prologue mission, shanghai, and the JBA HQ 4 all were classic splinter cell, and thats already 3 missions. Not to mention the epilogue mission which was also classic albeit super-short. had kinshasha been set at night time, it wouldve felt identical, but even with just the sunglasses and sunlight, it was fun. I will consent that the other JBA HQ missions were mostly a hassle but once youve beaten the game, you never have to see them again, and the rest of the missions are fine. So thats that.

Now onto the true topic. Conviction. Sigh...Well it's not true splinter cell anymore. It's Taken meets Bourne meets Bond (Mini-SPOILER: that scene where black guard at white box burns up from the EMP is something STRAIGHT outta a classic bond film.) I haven't actually beaten the game yet (I'm almost done with the Third Echelon mission) so i cant actually comment on the story (although it seems okay right now.) And the fact that it's EMP has some slight connection to technological warfare seen in the first SC and CT. However, the character direction with Grim is very weird...

It's the co-op that's the best. the ending was a fantastic one (that is kind of disappointing too). but the missions were almost classic splinter cell especially mozdok grounds (no alarms). i played through trying to be as classic splinter cell-y as possible which meant: slowly climbing the pipe and shimmying on ledges in a way that simulated realistic movements, bringing guards to dark corners and then knocking them out, figuring out how to perform non-lethal attacks, getting the famas (and now the sc3000) just to make it look like i have an sc20k, only throwing sticky cams when with my rifle out (so it looks like i', launching it, etc. I know some of that seems childish/ridiculous but to me, every little bit helps. The fact that they set it in russia is also great because it reminds me of hearing the georgian accents from the first game.

Lets also look at the things they have done better/worse.
+You can peer around corners but moreover, even all the way around the wall
+when peering around a corner with your rifle, it looks like how the old games looked when you took out your rifle
+FREE DLC every thursday
-Too many unsilenced weapons
-SC3000 has no scope?? Balls.
-NO HIDING BODIES!!! this alone would raise my rating of the game like...WAY up
-Too many different single-player missions (chase the guy, shoot all these guys, etc.)
+the melee/grab character is actually more challenging than it was in CT and DA because rather than pressing a button and getting an instant KO/kill, it takes a few seconds....enough time to be shot down by guards
-mark and execute....is just stupid. nothing else to say. i never use it
+the game is pretty...
-too bad most of it is obscured by the B&W feature. Speaking of...the shadows arent that dark...at all.
-Stupid 2-speed climbing and pipe hanging. Also, inhuman wall-hang shimmying.
+I found that by slowly moving left or right when hanging on wall and stop before going overhand moves you much slower and more realistic (because you arent ******edly going overhand)

OVERALL: C-....saved by the co-op....otherwise...D- to F

[Datashocker]

Eh, I might give it a C+. I really enjoyed the Co-Op. In fact, I don't ever play any actual story missions anymore, its just Co-Op missions or D-Ops (Which, actually, is kinda lame. I don't see why we need to kill everyone)

EDIT: Also, I don't see why Face-Off gets such a bad rap. With the settings right (Pistols only, no gadgets, guards low or off), it can be amazing. It's a test of stealth skill between two spies. The fact that players are highlighted when in the dark actually makes it more fun, 'cause you can't just rely on shadows to keep you hidden, you have to move behind cover so that they don't see you, and then sneak up for the kill. You also have to move silently if you don't want to be found. This is the downfall of many people when playing against me, I can hear them approaching. If you don't want to be heard you have to move slowly and carefully.

So, because of Co-op and Face-Off, I'll raise my grade for it to a B-. Take the story back to the land of plausibility, and add in the missing features, and you have yourself a winner.

[Hungrydm64gamer]

BoBwUzHeRe1138, just to let you know, the DLC you listed as a pro is actually unlockable content. Basically, they locked content that was ALREADY ON the disc and released it every Thursday to make the game last longer. Now, that means that they were withholding stuff the consumers paid for. As if that weren't bad enough, Ubisoft had the nerve to claim it was DLC. Just thought I'd let you know that.

[InfamousRed]

I know hungryDM64gamer! YOUR SOOOO RIGHT. They should just make all games free from now on, why stop there? What else, that costs money to make, can society just give away for free without hope of any kind of return at all?

As for the OP, the gameplay in SCC felt a lot smoother to me than it did in the other installments in the series. And i can somewhat imagine the idea to leave the bodies where they lie being behind both Fishers new "if it moves, kill it" method and a possibly over cluttered action Queue where ever you looked.

It may have been removed as an attempted to streamline the playing field. I suppose if your really worried about a guys friends finding his brain smeared across the wall, kill all his friends before they find said brains.

[TheSnowmanSaint]

Love this game. Locked content or not, could care less. Great time playing it and will continue to have a great time. Controls are nice, gameplay is smooth and the co-op is hell a lot of fun. Will be playing this game for a long long time.

[mattduck69]

i would give conviction an B+ but i would have to give SPLINTER CELLconviction an C

[kingatrock1]

I give the game a solid C. Was ok, nothing amazing, quickly forgettable. The ending of the coop story: **SPOILER ALERT JUST IN CASE**

"Hey.. kill each other."

"oh, ok."

Game Over

[Dread_stunlock]

How about A+ for Ubisoft finnaly evolving their games rather keeping same ugly UI's same stiff movements in first 3 SC's?

[EagleCorpse]

Originally posted by Dread_stunlock:
How about A+ for Ubisoft finnaly evolving their games rather keeping same ugly UI's same stiff movements in first 3 SC's?
I would rather have stiff animation if it meant a real splinter cell game.

[sameer_monier]

Originally posted by Dread_stunlock:
How about A+ for Ubisoft finnaly evolving their games rather keeping same ugly UI's same stiff movements in first 3 SC's? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif +1

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

I still havent really played Face-Off yet....i do kind of wish you were'nt highlighted though...although i guess it makes sense...its as if the other agent is using nightvision or whatever.

I forgot to add that the A Button was way too overcrowded. It shouldve been A to open doors and pick up weapons (and carry bodies....) and Y for all the athletic movements like jumping up a wall or vaulting things. B works fine as taking enemies out, although i wish you could choose lethal/nonlethal because even with sam out for vengeance and being mad at third echelon...i doubt he'd kill the security guards there who are only doing there job....i HIGHLY doubt theyre in on the whole conspiracy. And i know the ending of the co-op was kinda like "sure...whatever" about the other spy, but well...orders are orders right chief? They could have made Archer argue a bit more...but i just like the idea of a co-op story actually going against the norm and the definition of "co-op"...i cant think of any other game that's done that. i may be wrong, have there been? PS why no true co-op moves? it was still fun but it wouldve been fun to do some of those moves...i do like how they had a throw back to one at the end of the yastreb complex mission.

Oh and yeah, had this game been a Bourne game, a Bond game, or anything else...it wouldve been at least a B-....but this is splinter cell. i didnt buy the first one because i wanted a shooter, i bought splinter cell to have a game that was different than any other game out there...so yes maybe they started to feel the same....but is that truly bad? i mean, lets say that they felt the same. they only felt the same to 3 other games...not every game on the market.

Also A+ for changing their games up? Sure....because Mario has changed so much from his old games and he's still popular because of that...

[Datashocker]

Originally posted by BoBwUzHeRe1138:

Also A+ for changing their games up? Sure....because Mario has changed so much from his old games and he's still popular because of that...

The only reason Mario still sells is because each new generation plays the next Mario game.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Well yes, but so do the fans of mario since he was first created. And also why wouldnt the next generation of gamers buy splinter cell?

[michaelanjello]

honestly, the developers should change a few major things.
1. Bring back the knife
2. only put 1 mark per 1 stealth kill
3. bring back ziplines, lockpicking, hacking and wall split.
4. get rid of warning and detected notices
5.make guards slower, have less of them, and make them more curious-not extremely brave (running into every situation)
6. make passages using vents, ropes, and wall climbs.
7. get rid of hand to hand combat. sweet and simple is best- especially with a knife

----in other words keep the old gameplay- only have fisher faster, a bit more guards that are more inteligent, cover to cover diving and maybe keep mark and excecute.

mike.

[Knot3D]

Originally posted by Dread_stunlock:
How about A+ for Ubisoft finnaly evolving their games rather keeping same ugly UI's same stiff movements in first 3 SC's?

Out of all stealth games from that same gaming era, SC games have always had the most fluid, most athletic moves.

Try Hitman or MGS2/3/4 ; they all move more robotic than SC1,2,3 and 4.

And imo, Conviction has even improved this fluidity of movement ; which imo, is a core aspect of good stealth gaming. It makes the game a lot of fun to play.

Especially Deniable Ops. I'd say B+ or A-

[I_Redemptionx_I]

Originally posted by Dread_stunlock:
How about A+ for Ubisoft finnaly evolving their games rather keeping same ugly UI's same stiff movements in first 3 SC's?

Yeah, because who cares that they ruined the gameplay, as long as he looks SUPER SEXY. The fact that you think this game is "evolved" from its predecessors because he moves faster is an absolute joke.

[BoBwUzHeRe1138]

Hey redemption....lets be fair...

sam has evolved from the previous games...i mean he's evolved his human skills to the point that no other human in the world can match them....maybe he was bitten by a radioactive alien...thats how he can RUN across ledges while hanging....or sam is spiderman on his off days. off from snapping the necks of innocent security guards...sam has evolved his mind as well past the point that he need not worry about moral obligations such as whether murder is right or wrong. he has the fifth freedom when he says he does! and if the u.s. government doesnt like it...he'll kill them because theyre just as guilty for killing his daughter. it doesnt even matter that shes alive!

in closing. What. The. Hell? Seriously? how is this even the same game (story-wise and even in much of the gameplay-wise?)

Before he moved realistically (and not at a grandma speed....id like to see your grandma execute a perfect roll and then climb a pipe)...now he moves like he's an alien spiderman on steroids.

Before it actually felt like you were behind lines and that any slip-up would mean death....now it feels like any slip-up....wait...slip-up? whats that? pew pew pew

Before sam was smart enough to NOT leave bodies and alert an entire building full of armed guards that there was something wrong. now he's too stupid to think about about consequences...that or he forgot how to lift bodies....i mean he has been inactive for like 3 years...3 years is a long time to forget basic body functions. oh wait...i forgot...he EVOLVED. he's badass now! he just doesnt care! nevermind the chances of getting into a firefight with 10+ fully armed men in every room and winning every single one without dying is so small it makes electrons feel like the ****ing empire state building...which coincidentally sam could mark and execute if he WANTED! that building is just as guilty for killing his dead but actually alive daughter!

oh and who could forget the goggles that have sonar that isnt sonar? those things are awesome! they let me see through like 15 walls and then i can press this button that puts that totally realistic arrow above their head...and i can do that to those 4 *******s over there...and then i push this OTHER button and then he shoots them....it doesnt even matter if they move behind concrete....those mother ****ers are DEAD! i TOTALLY felt like i was playing a game and that i killed them with skill and wasnt watching a movie. wait. no. it WAS like a movie! an awesome action movie like james bond....hes a secret agent right? sam shouldve worn a tuxedo! only lame part of the game! cause sam is the REAL kind of spy....not the wetsuit wearing kind of spy...he's the kind of spy thatll mark and execute blood over your fancy wetsuit!

in closing...make SC6 like the original or im a guaranteed non-buyer...i dont mind if the good elements of conviction are there....which i stated....but if m&e and lkp, etc. make a return (which they most likely will)...not gonna buy.

[Falzar]

Originally posted by BoBwUzHeRe1138:
Hey redemption....lets be fair...

sam has evolved from the previous games...i mean he's evolved his human skills to the point that no other human in the world can match them....maybe he was bitten by a radioactive alien...thats how he can RUN across ledges while hanging....or sam is spiderman on his off days. off from snapping the necks of innocent security guards...sam has evolved his mind as well past the point that he need not worry about moral obligations such as whether murder is right or wrong. he has the fifth freedom when he says he does! and if the u.s. government doesnt like it...he'll kill them because theyre just as guilty for killing his daughter. it doesnt even matter that shes alive!

in closing. What. The. Hell? Seriously? how is this even the same game (story-wise and even in much of the gameplay-wise?)

Before he moved realistically (and not at a grandma speed....id like to see your grandma execute a perfect roll and then climb a pipe)...now he moves like he's an alien spiderman on steroids.

Before it actually felt like you were behind lines and that any slip-up would mean death....now it feels like any slip-up....wait...slip-up? whats that? pew pew pew

Before sam was smart enough to NOT leave bodies and alert an entire building full of armed guards that there was something wrong. now he's too stupid to think about about consequences...that or he forgot how to lift bodies....i mean he has been inactive for like 3 years...3 years is a long time to forget basic body functions. oh wait...i forgot...he EVOLVED. he's badass now! he just doesnt care! nevermind the chances of getting into a firefight with 10+ fully armed men in every room and winning every single one without dying is so small it makes electrons feel like the ****ing empire state building...which coincidentally sam could mark and execute if he WANTED! that building is just as guilty for killing his dead but actually alive daughter!

oh and who could forget the goggles that have sonar that isnt sonar? those things are awesome! they let me see through like 15 walls and then i can press this button that puts that totally realistic arrow above their head...and i can do that to those 4 *******s over there...and then i push this OTHER button and then he shoots them....it doesnt even matter if they move behind concrete....those mother ****ers are DEAD! i TOTALLY felt like i was playing a game and that i killed them with skill and wasnt watching a movie. wait. no. it WAS like a movie! an awesome action movie like james bond....hes a secret agent right? sam shouldve worn a tuxedo! only lame part of the game! cause sam is the REAL kind of spy....not the wetsuit wearing kind of spy...he's the kind of spy thatll mark and execute blood over your fancy wetsuit!

in closing...make SC6 like the original or im a guaranteed non-buyer...i dont mind if the good elements of conviction are there....which i stated....but if m&e and lkp, etc. make a return (which they most likely will)...not gonna buy.

Fast ubisoft fast make the next splinter cell game like the original because you are going to lose BoBwUzHeRe1138 as a buyer!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif seriously man grow up...these kind of threats i am sure that makes the devs to laugh till death....guys like it or not conviction was a good game and the reason they are going to continue the series is because conviction did pretty good sales considering the economical crisis....

[Boffcheese]

Bob, I LOVED your post!

I tend to play Conviction as stealthily as possible, since its just too easy if you don't. That's not me boasting, its the truth. Melee one guy, mark four others and press a button. Room cleared. End of.

Also, I genuinely laugh when people say that EVERY two-handed-weapon melee is non-lethal. Like hell it is. Grab from behind with an assault rifle before flinging them to the floor? Neck break. You can hear it. Smashing an enemies head into a wall/desk, their fine right? Nope. They've probably got a broken neck, skull or brain damage, not to mention the worrying gurgling noises coming from them when you drop them...

Anyway...

Sam in this is stupid. Both in intelligence and characterisation. Just because he's a few years older doesn't mean he's suddenly developed super strength and an ability to bend reality to his whim...

[Boffcheese]

Originally posted by Falzar:

Fast ubisoft fast make the next splinter cell game like the original because you are going to lose BoBwUzHeRe1138 as a buyer!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif seriously man grow up...these kind of threats i am sure that makes the devs to laugh till death....guys like it or not conviction was a good game and the reason they are going to continue the series is because conviction did pretty good sales considering the economical crisis....

There are more people than just him, loyal supporters of the franchise, that have already said they won't buy another Splinter Cell. Sure, on their own a single threat like that wouldn't bother Ubi, but there are many, many more.

I have to say, I'll probably buy the next one regardless, but I know of (off the top of my head) seven people who are all fans of the franchise and have not bought it. I have four people I convinced to buy it, and they havent played it after the first week. They hate me ^^.

Don't underestimate the feelings people have about Conviction. Some love it, others despise it's very guts. At a guess I'd say Ubi has lost about 60% of the Splinter Cell fans (Thats not idle fact, thats pure hard speculation!).

That reads more hostile than I intended. Oops.

[Falzar]

Originally posted by Boffcheese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falzar:

Fast ubisoft fast make the next splinter cell game like the original because you are going to lose BoBwUzHeRe1138 as a buyer!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif seriously man grow up...these kind of threats i am sure that makes the devs to laugh till death....guys like it or not conviction was a good game and the reason they are going to continue the series is because conviction did pretty good sales considering the economical crisis....

There are more people than just him, loyal supporters of the franchise, that have already said they won't buy another Splinter Cell. Sure, on their own a single threat like that wouldn't bother Ubi, but there are many, many more.

I have to say, I'll probably buy the next one regardless, but I know of (off the top of my head) seven people who are all fans of the franchise and have not bought it. I have four people I convinced to buy it, and they havent played it after the first week. They hate me ^^.

Don't underestimate the feelings people have about Conviction. Some love it, others despise it's very guts. At a guess I'd say Ubi has lost about 60% of the Splinter Cell fans (Thats not idle fact, thats pure hard speculation!).

That reads more hostile than I intended. Oops. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


well i liked every splinter cell game...i am a huge fan of the series...but i have no problem with changes of the gameplay...also the most strange thing is that ubisoft did not lose fans from double agent or conviction.. here i post again this very interesting thing:

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (XB):2,91 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow (XB):1,42 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (XB):1,11 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent (X360):1,17 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction (X360):1,16 million sales

These numbers are from vgchartz site so go there if you don’t believe me....
You see that chaos theory did the least sales? And it was the best stealth game.. so i think there are others reasons why splinter cell series lost buyers...

[Boffcheese]

Those stats only come from a single platform. Chaos Theory sold way more than that overall, and over all platforms Conviction has done worse than every other Splinter Cell overall, last time I checked. That was a couple of weeks ago, so it might have changed.

Still, my point stands. Just on these forums there is so much disdain for Ubisoft and Conviction. Some of it is outright hate.

Like I said, I personally found Conviction an alright game. It isn't my favourite Splinter Cell, not by a long shot, but it's fun and challenging in parts.

[insanity76]

Originally posted by Falzar:

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (XB):2,91 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow (XB):1,42 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (XB):1,11 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent (X360):1,17 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction (X360):1,16 million sales

These numbers are from vgchartz site so go there if you don’t believe me....
You see that chaos theory did the least sales? And it was the best stealth game.. so i think there are others reasons why splinter cell series lost buyers...

I'm willing to bet CT will have had a much lower return/trade in rate than Conviction when it's all said and done. That's more where the quality and enjoyability of a game should be judged, not how many people bought the game.

[Falzar]

Originally posted by Boffcheese:
Those stats only come from a single platform. Chaos Theory sold way more than that overall, and over all platforms Conviction has done worse than every other Splinter Cell overall, last time I checked. That was a couple of weeks ago, so it might have changed.

Still, my point stands. Just on these forums there is so much disdain for Ubisoft and Conviction. Some of it is outright hate.

Like I said, I personally found Conviction an alright game. It isn't my favourite Splinter Cell, not by a long shot, but it's fun and challenging in parts.

what????you know that conviction was only for xbox 360 and pc???and vgchartz gives only platforms sales....and also you know why i choose xbox to compare? because it was the first console that every splinter cell was released...Here is the site so everybody can see the truth...
http://www.vgchartz.com/worldt...name=splinter%20cell (http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=splinter%20cell)

[Falzar]

Originally posted by insanity76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Falzar:

Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (XB):2,91 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow (XB):1,42 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory (XB):1,11 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent (X360):1,17 million sales
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction (X360):1,16 million sales

These numbers are from vgchartz site so go there if you don’t believe me....
You see that chaos theory did the least sales? And it was the best stealth game.. so i think there are others reasons why splinter cell series lost buyers...

I'm willing to bet CT will have had a much lower return/trade in rate than Conviction when it's all said and done. That's more where the quality and enjoyability of a game should be judged, not how many people bought the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well i am not going to trade conviction..but when i had splinter cell 1,2,3 for GameCube i trade them for other games not because i didn’t like them but i wanted to play other games and to pay 50 Euros for every game is not very easy for me....so that’s another reason why people trade games...
PS: before 3 months i bought the splinter cell trilogy edition for pc for only 15 Euros and now i have all the collection again 3 on pc and 2 of xbox 360 and I am not willing to trade them for no reason...