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RedTerex
06-27-2004, 05:40 AM

RedTerex
06-27-2004, 05:40 AM

Redwine
06-27-2004, 07:02 AM
I vote the first, with the remarks of game must to include a feature......... when you shoot a life boat with any weapon, when you back home you must to fired out of the campaing with a sentence you must to go to martial court.......... and you and your campaing ...are done.......

It is not a crazy thing, this feature was included in Red Baron 3D, when you kill a friendly the game kills your campaing and thre is a AVI video of you in jail waiting the martial court......... Red Baron series start up before 1995..........

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Bruno_Lotse
06-27-2004, 07:31 AM
I also voted for the first, however, I have doubts about court-marshal thing. To prosecute someone we need evidence. Yet where realistically speaking we could find them? There is no witnesses. No survivors on the life boats. No record in a log book. Only a handful of men on the watch saw what actually happened. Yet I do not think they will be willing to rat on their Kapitan, firstly, because if they saw what happened that means they did it and therefore implicated as well, secondly, there's such thing as Kameradschaft, and thirdly, they would understand that they owed big time to their Kapitan, because it was he who saved their own hide by bringing boat safely to the base. As Old Man in Das Boot novel says - 'We'd have had to wipe the slate clean. Typical case...' (Chapter 'Return Voyage')

Bruno Lotse
U743

RedTerex
06-27-2004, 08:52 AM
I voted the first one as well.
But as for court martial, I'de say no because we are then going into another curriculum and perhap digressing too far away from what the game is about and that is to find and sink merchant shipping.

As for life-boats, survivors etc there is no way I'de shoot em up, perhaps pull along side and throw them some supplies, cigarettes or drinks yes. That would be cool.

regards

RedTerex

Bruno_Lotse
06-27-2004, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
As for life-boats, survivors etc there is no way I'de shoot em up, perhaps pull along side and throw them some supplies, cigarettes or drinks yes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly.
In things like that everything should depend on our conscience - our personal conviction, inner sense of what is right and what is wrong. Some people might think that a boat loaded with survivors is still a legitimate target - so bomb them. Others will stop from firing torpedo at the enemy destroyer as long as they realize that that one is fishing out survivors from a sunken scow. They strongly believe that unwritten law prohibits attacks on ships engaged in rescue operations. Your choice is cigarettes - not bullets. Physically, nothing in the sim should prevent from shooting survivors. But apart from physics there is such a thing as our moral fiber which means - there is no way I can do it.
Bruno Lotse
U743

jagtigermk2
06-27-2004, 01:43 PM
What would happen if you tried to ram a lifeboat, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif if it's Indestructible?.

Would it sink your U-boat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Access_granted
06-27-2004, 02:31 PM
... I just notice that the only people who wrote on this thread, are those who vote for the first...
I guess there are trying to justify themselves...

RedTerex
06-27-2004, 03:18 PM
Anyone can post on this thread. Its as open democracy as much as open conscience. this forum has always supported freedom of speech as long as its not abusive etc to others.

If you want to post anti-lifeboat texts then that is ok. This SubSim Community as I have always discovered likes to express wide and varied views on everything associated with SH3.

Sometimes peoples views are actually swayed by reading posts as to the whys and wherefores of certain issues.

Posting about these issues is what these forums are all about. So if you wish to post your views on reasons NOT to have lifeboats even if you are reiterating from previous posts then please do.

Lifeboats as an issue is one I thought about a lot and eventualy agreed with myself that it would be good to have them included in the game, as we are trying to appraoch as much realism as possible with SH3.

It will hopefully be a SIMULATION and not an ARCADE ' game' and consequently there may be one or two things about it that are not favourite with everyone, but thats real life albeit simulated.

Respectfully

RedTerex

HeibgesU999
06-27-2004, 03:49 PM
If someone wants to shoot lifeboats, I say the game should allow them to do that.

But if the tech/code isn't in there now, its not going to be. And I wouldn't want anything really important skimped on to get the lifeboats in there.

Defintely keep it on the drawing board for SH4 though. It really would be a very realistic touch.

ingsoc41
06-27-2004, 04:03 PM
I agree with having lifeboats and the ability to sink them..from my reading it was done on both sides...probably more a decision up to the commander and his "ethics" of war...but remember that those in lifeboats probably fared not too well..but besides that..they could pinpoint locations of zones of operation of enemy boats..on both sides....I remember in the very very old "secret weapons of the Lufwaffe" by Lucas arts...you could shoot down the parachusts of downed pilots..heck...not sporting..but if you think they jut get up in another plane and go after you again..Im sure it happened...and remember few if any prisoners were taken for long on either side of the war in Russia (I know there were the one thousand plus prisoner caputers early in Barbarossa..but most of them died along the march..were put in camps or forced labor...Russians as well as germans routinely shot prisoners..I have a friend who was in one Of pattons recon unit who said shooting prisoners was a daily occurance..not officially sactioned.but some guys in the unit were known to have had all their prisoners "try to escape".it was war....having said that..lifeboats are not a make or break for me..and if it probably adds lots of code...and may slow down game play on slower machines..either way.its something to consider but not a dealbreaker by any means..its like saying..why not have seagulls ocassionally fly over the uboats when they neared a port ? would be cool..but not absolutely necessary......

Redwine
06-27-2004, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruno_Lotse:
I also voted for the first, however, I have doubts about court-marshal thing. To prosecute someone we need evidence.

Bruno Lotse
U743<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Iwas not thinking in a court simulator Bruno !! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I was thinking in the game just fire out you from the campaing........... no more complex behavior, just erase all your data and scores ........

But it is true in Red Baron II and Red Baron 3D you finish in jail with no complexity of eyewitness

About eyewitness.......... you can not kill your crew............. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Redwine
06-27-2004, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Access_granted:
... I just notice that the only people who wrote on this thread, are those who vote for the first...
I guess there are trying to justify themselves...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You are extremelly wrong man, and you have not any thing to justify you words..........

Life boats can add lot of ralism to the sim ........

Specially because if a ship dont sinks at first shoot, you must to wait for ship evacuation to make a second shoot to sink it, if not you can kill innocent people..........

Be fired out of the game or campaing can be a good penality for those who needs an Unreal Turnament instead a Subsim............

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HeibgesU999
06-27-2004, 04:52 PM
Lifeboats in SH3 should play the same role as sampans in the original silent hunter.

Bruno_Lotse
06-27-2004, 08:09 PM
@Redwine
Red,
To my knowledge, there was no BdU or from other German authority order PROHIBITING killing survivors of a sunken ship. Therefore you cannot court-marshal Kriegsmarine officers should they been suspected in doing so. On the contrary, I believe that so called 'Laconia Order' contained description of the goals of UBoot operations as 'destruction of enemy ships and their crews'.
About eyewitnesses. There is no need to kill your own crew. Your own crew won't rat on you. Crew is a family with Kapitan as a Father figure. Whatever happened in the middle of Atlantik is strictly between family members. Can you imagine that guys from Das Boot would rat on the Old Man? Preposterous! I am aware of a single and lonely case when some members of the crew denounced their Kapitan - Oskar-Heinz Kush (http://uboat.net/men/kusch.htm) from U-154. That's all.
Bruno Lotse
U743

Redwine
06-27-2004, 09:37 PM
You still not understand me Bruno......... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I am not talking about real history.......
I am not talking about any real fact......
I am not talking about to have "court" simulator...... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I am making a reference to another simulator where you shoot a friendly and you are fired-out of the game........ thats all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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HeibgesU999
06-27-2004, 10:05 PM
In Ace Combat 4, a great game, but hardly a simulator, if you shoot at friendlies you are declared a traitor and your allies come after you.

In Wing Commander 3 there was a killboard and interaction with other NPC's.

One way to handle it would be if you shot sailors in lifeboats, the other kalue's won't drink with you at the O'Club. You would get a reputation as not being an officer and a gentleman....if there is an Officer's Club in SH3.

RedTerex
06-27-2004, 11:53 PM
I hope I can close this ' court martial ' thing for ever by saying this, or rather by reminding you of this.

Hitler actualy ordered all survivors of torpedoed vessels to be shot and Admiral Donitz was'nt too fussed either and sort of went along with it.
So therefore a court martial for shooting survivors is impossible on the contrary you would more probably have had a hand shake form Hitler and perhaps a " well done " thrown in !

It was the most disregarded order that Hitler ever made. U-boat Commanders used to state in their reports ' No survivors ' to get round it.

So Not to shoot survivors is disobeying Hitlers orders and a court martial could have technicaly resulted for that.

So in keeping with historical accuracey you wouldnt shoot survivors and risk a court martial.

Its reversed LOL
regards

RedTerex

Leif...
06-28-2004, 01:57 AM
&gt;Hitler actualy ordered all survivors of torpedoed vessels to be shot and Admiral Donitz &gt;was'nt too fussed either and sort of went along with it.

Not quite right:
Ô"Hitler seized upon the Laconia incident to advocate the outright killing of survivors: "It is nonsense to offer provisions to survivors in their lifeboats, or provide sailing instructions for their return home. I hereby order that ships and their crews are to be destroyed, even if the crews are in lifeboats." An eyewitness recorded D├┬Ânitz's reaction as follows: No, mein F├╝hrer. It goes against the honour of a seaman to shoot at shipwrecked survivors. I cannot issue such an order. My U-boat men are volunteers, waging a costly struggle in the belief they are fighting honourably for a good cause. Their combat morale would be undermined by this order. I must request that you withdraw it."
Hitler, lapsing into a Viennese dialect, backed down: "Do what you want, but no more offering assistance and sailing instructions."

This was a cut from Neither Sharks nor Wolves The Men of Nazi Germany's U-Boat Arm 1939-1945 by Timothy P. Mulligan
And the quote was found in the article Ô"Treatment of Merchant Ship Survivors by U-boat Crews 1939 ľ 1945 by Ken Dunn at http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55

LeifÔ...

Redwine
06-28-2004, 06:52 AM
I must to mention.........

I had used the words "martial Court" to put some name to the feature I am prouposed as an idea...... only to put some name.......was not my impetption to request a martial court simulation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

My idea is, is you fire a life boat, the game must to close you campaing and quit all your condcorations and fire-out you of the game erasing all your data.............leting you in fresh installation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



About real life.........things was exactly as LEIF had described..........Hitler gives the oreder of not help survivor, and eliminate enemy salilor together with the ship...... Admiral Doenitz refused the order in the face of the Fuherer.......... (very dangerous action) as LEIF has described, and pass to the History as an Officer who said NO to a direct order of the fueherer in his face..........

In the mind od submarine crew this kind of actions was not honourable...... they was warriors not killers.


I remember the first or second ship sunk by Kap. Kretschmer, he approach his sub to the survivors and ask if they have some people wonded, or need water or some thing, and give them the direction to more near land............

Captain of ship sunk, said him "Thanks for to approach us", ship was the Glen Farg.

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RedTerex
06-28-2004, 07:29 AM
I'm sure that the SubSim community in general will be happy that we have clarified all the speculation and facts over life-boat usages.

My appologies to Admiral Doenitz.

If life-boats cant be included in SH3 maybe we can have them in SH4 !

regards

RedTerex

RedTerex
06-28-2004, 11:37 PM
DevTeam take note, out of 34 votes to date 86% want life-boats of some description.

Could we have a reply on this one please as to yay or nay ! your views, however concise would be nice.

regards

RedTerex

BONFLECK
06-29-2004, 12:35 AM
I'd love to have life boats with full realism! Ordering your crew or manning the guns yourself to cut the boat and survivors to ribbons would be sweet! After all, if you were spotted by them and they were rescued by a friendly shortly thereafter, they'd tip em off to your position and endanger your boat and crew! This is a sub simulation of a "WAR" isn't it? As the skipper, you should even have access to a Walther or Luger to deal with the possibilty of a sailor that's lost his mind and abandoned his post under fire or as the last defence against enemies boarding your vessel. (I think the last part would really be a stretch, but what the F@#$!)

RedTerex
06-29-2004, 08:32 AM
Boneflicker says oops I mean Bonfleck says quote:
"...manning the guns yourself to cut the boat and survivors to ribbons would be sweet!..."

It might be sweet to you but I find it to be sad and deplorable. Hmmm lets have you as a survivor in a dingy, yeah cool, just escaped from your sinking sub, getting better LOL, and lets see if you like being shot to pieces, yeah way cool, by a merchant ships 30mm cannon..delicious !

yeeehaaa!

RedTerex

delphin-U190
06-29-2004, 09:01 AM
Yeah great, or chained up to a towed noise-maker to attract acoustic torpedoes ? Would be fine... baoum and see the bad kaleunt diseparing in water projection and smoke plume

hum may all the uboat survivor attached to the hull of the cargo to be used as anti torpedo belt ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Shooting survivor is a non sens, and probably you had never seen a dead body, or even a guy injured, crying and calling for mum...

I think it's more difficult in reality than during a game !

Redwine
06-29-2004, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BONFLECK:
I'd love to have life boats with full realism! Ordering your crew or manning the guns yourself to cut the boat and survivors to ribbons would be sweet!

As the skipper, you should even have access to a Walther or Luger to deal with the possibilty of a sailor that's lost his mind and abandoned his post under fire or as the last defence against enemies boarding your vessel. (I think the last part would really be a stretch, but what the F@#$!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Do you understand me guys when i talk about a psichiatrician ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

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jagtigermk2
06-29-2004, 02:08 PM
Maybe we could use the lifeboats as target practice for our deck gun crew. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Remember, it's only a game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
06-29-2004, 10:47 PM
Maybe that can be the first deck gun training mission and then a torpedo mission! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Keep on Smiling'

HeibgesU999
06-29-2004, 11:48 PM
that would be interesting if there was a boarding party scenario. after you surfaced and started to abandon ship maybe it takes 4 minutes to scuttle the boat and toss all the secret junk overseas.

the uboat commanders handbook says you should always have hand grenades and tommyguns[sic] ready when receiving launches from merchants you are inspecting.

BONFLECK
06-30-2004, 01:04 AM
Maybe the developers can add a fully interactive galley! That way, everyone who finds playing war games deplorable can sit in there and bake cookies for the enemy sailors in the lifeboats. We could petition the developers for a top secret torpedo that would blast confetti and marshmallows all over the deck of a stricken enemy vessel.

jagtigermk2
06-30-2004, 02:09 AM
lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Pito_1st
06-30-2004, 02:46 AM
Also possibility to pick up survivors and take them on board, and put them ashore or home would be "nice to have" option.
At the beginning of war that wasn't forbidden.
And it would also affect crew morale.

P.

delphin-U190
06-30-2004, 03:08 AM
I make a great difference between a war game simulator with realism and a shoot'em up game !

In the first you simulate a war, you need tactical mind and skill in your job to sink freighter.

In the second you shoot everything can be, doesn't matter what it is (old lady, dog, cat, survivor, alien, bean can, sucker...)

I think SH3 should be the first, ok for survivor, ok if you want to shoot them, but the game must punish you for this type of act !

And finnaly, U571, is a garbage holywood movie, don't think it's an historic event ! The british capture an intact U-boat who surrender after being damaged. The crew flee the boat so fast than they forget to destroy the classified material. And that's all !

sav112
06-30-2004, 04:50 AM
Well the game has crew moral. I think any Captain firing on innocents on life boats would loose respect from there crews and effect them in that they feel morally bad and therefore lower there moral.
But then again transporting survivors or radioing there positions would give you a high moral surly. You sink the ship (mission accomplished) and help fellow sailors(Bonus).

Survivors were transported during the war and transfered to supply ships when at sea.

Bruno_Lotse
06-30-2004, 07:22 AM
1. No attempt of any kind must be made at rescuing members of ships sunk, and this includes picking up persons in the water and putting them in lifeboats, righting capsized lifeboats, and handing out food and water. Rescue runs counter to the most primitive demands of warfare for the destruction of enemy ships and crews.

2. Orders on taking prisoner captains and chief engineers remain in force.

3. Shipwrecked are only to be rescued in case their information is important to the boat.

4. Be hard, remember that the enemy has no regard for women and children when he bombs German cities.
Laconia Order (http://uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55)
This is the content of 'Laconia Order' September 1942.
So, if Kapitan will be obsesses with getting Bonuses by helping fellow sailors (i.e. enemy), such Kapitan most probably will have encounter with a court-marshal.
Bruno Lotse
U743

bertgang
06-30-2004, 07:57 AM
I voted for the second, a thing that worked on Red Baron I; shooting at parachutes was possible but useless, as they were unbreakable.
An opportunity to see survivors could be nice, an opportunity for virtual war crimes less.

Redwine
06-30-2004, 05:50 PM
About to bake cookies for survivors in an interactive galley and torpedoes with confetti............


From real life :

Abril 1940 U23 intercept a cargo ship, U23 shoot with 20mmm canon as advertence.....
Capiatan Kretschmer wait for ship evacuation ad only then he shoot a torp........
He approach the life boats and ask them if they have wounded men and give them the nearest coast heading.
Captain of sink ship gives "thanks for approach us", ship was the Glen Fargo.
-----------------------------

July 1940 U-99 detect a cargo ship and shoot it.
Cap. Kretschmer rise the sub and ask for wounded men, he gives survivors the heading to Irish coast at one night rowing , and a bottle of cognac for the cold of the night.
Ship was the Magog.
----------------------------

July 1940, U-99 intercept a cargo ship, they made an advertence shoot with cannon, crew of the ship abandon the ship in life boats, Capitan Kretschmer approach them and remain surprised when he watch 7 women on the life boats.........
He ask for the ship's capitan, ask for wounded, and give to the ship capitan the order to come back on board of the ship another time........... and go to Burdeos Port............. and surrender the ship.
He do not sink the ship because there was women on board................. believe it or not.
Ship was the Merisaar from Stonia............
-----------------------------

July 1940, U-99 detect a cargo ship and shoot it, sub capitan approach survivor in life boats, and give them heading to safe shore and ron and cover for the cold night...........
Ship was the Woodbury..............
-----------------------------

July 1940, when U-99 sinks the Jersey City he remains in the zone, and after few hours a frigate stops to rescue survivors, U-99 was there watching the frigate stopped and rescueing survivors, and not shoot it..............
-----------------------------

September 1940 U-99 sinks the Luimneach, Sub approach survivors to ask for wonded, and gives them heading to safe coast and medicine, bandages and anticeptics, cigarettes and ron for wounded.............
-----------------------------

September 20 1940, Prien advice about a convoy, Kretschmer and Prien meeet at night to attack the convoy with more subs, Kretschmer sunks 2 ships, the Invershannon and the Baron Blythwood, wich remains both floating with very hard damage...............when he attempt to sink them with cannon, he watch an alone survivor floating on a piece of wood, with a white shirt as flag in a kind of mast and with no clothes, only with underpants...............he was a survivor of the Baron Blythwood.
He take the survivor and put it onboard the sub, the officers give him food and ron, the survivor was wonded in his head, he recieve medical assistance, he sleep all nigh onboard........... believe it or not.
The morning later Kretschmer sails searching for another life boat to let the wonded survivor with them.................
He found a life boat with the captain of the Invershannon, and traslate the wonded from the sub to the life boat, and give them, bandages and food and water, and heading to safe coast, when Kretschmer start up to let the boat, the capitan of the sinked ship, pick up a box from the boat, and launch it on the sub cover.............. was a box containing lot of cigarette packages...............
-----------------------------


I read in some place, one time, Kretschmer give to survivors, cloths, covers for cold, and a complete barrel of ron due they have to row a complete day and one night to arrive to Irish coasts..............


There are many of this situations, dozen of them if we watch in history books............

When the sub was not in danger, they suface the ship and gives help to the survivors............. this was near to a standard.

To kill survivors was not a standard procedure, may be a sadly exception, but not the standard procedure.

Best Regards, Red.

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[This message was edited by Redwine on Thu July 01 2004 at 05:33 AM.]

Bruno_Lotse
06-30-2004, 08:02 PM
Both Kretschmer and Prien belong to the category of "The Old Guard". These 'Old Guard' Capitans shared 'antiquated credo' (Buchheim, Das Boot) - 'Concern for the fate of the shipwrecked is the first duty of every seaman'. Most of them did not survive 1941 though: Prien - sunk, Shepke - sunk, Kelsh - sunk, Endrass - sunk. Kretshcmer survived 1941 only because the same year he was captured by the British. And then there was a new breed, and a new 1942 year, and a new Order - Laconia Order of September 14, 1942. Things became nasty. Total Krieg was the order of the day. Germany was posed to hit the enemy hard. And in the warfare against supply shipping nothing hits the enemy harder then the loss of the enemy crews. Not ships - US can churn out thousands of them. Experienced crews are much more valuable from a military point of view. It is much more difficult to find replacement for a good skipper then to build a scow.
Bruno Lotse
U743

Bruno_Lotse
06-30-2004, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Redwine:
From real life :

Abril 1939 U23 intercept a cargo ship, U23 shoot with 20mmm canon as advertence.....
Capiatan Kretschmer wait for ship evacuation ad only then he shoot a torp........
He approach the life boats and ask them if they have wounded men and give them the nearest coast heading.
Captain of sink ship gives "thanks for approach us", ship was the Glen Fargo.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
April 1939?
Red, I thought WWII started in September. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Bruno Lotse
U743

Redwine
07-01-2004, 06:32 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thanks Bruno http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif I forget to take the "blue" pill" yesterday........ or was the white one ?

Yes April 1940..........

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Bruno_Lotse
07-01-2004, 08:10 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Bruno Lotse
U743

TASKFORCE1x1
07-03-2004, 12:03 AM
Could get quite crouded if we took men aboard. Would be great to assimulate new crew from an abandoned neighboring sub. If we sunk a boat that had some military nurses I would be happy to save them! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-03-2004, 01:15 AM
Its just possible that lifeboats may get included now that the Sim is being "worked on" to add new features.

Dont Worry TASKFORCE1x1 I'm sure somebody will throw you a lifebelt if in peril ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif no honestly.
And I wouldnt mind sharing one of them with a WRAC or even a WREN !

Ship ahoy !

RedTerex

Redwine
07-03-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Could get quite crouded if we took men aboard. Would be great to assimulate new crew from an abandoned neighboring sub. If we sunk a boat that had some military nurses I would be happy to save them! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good idea !! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Women must to be traslate onboard the sub ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Coming back, the modelation of life boats is a great thing to be considered by the Team........

This feature can make the game spectacular and impresive, and can give us what means to shoot a top against a ship........ not only an increase at the tonnage score, it is the hell for sailors of the ship.............

______________________________
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http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
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The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

jeroen-79
07-03-2004, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Would be great to assimulate new crew from an abandoned neighboring sub.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Resistance is futile!<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If we sunk a boat that had some military nurses I would be happy to save them!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why not paint the boat pink as well then?

TASKFORCE1x1
07-05-2004, 02:09 AM
Pink? Like in Operation Petticoat? Women were on board there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-05-2004, 10:28 AM
There were times when females were actualy on board submarines.
More often they were Secrect Agents being taken to a destination for insertion into enemy territory. Or Visa- versa, being picked up by a U-boat after a mission.

We must not forget that U-boats carried out these type of missions as well as ship hunting.

dive, dive, dive !

RedTerex

jeroen-79
07-05-2004, 12:19 PM
Did this happen often?
All I know about is a few U-boats taking saboteurs to the US.

bausbis23
07-05-2004, 04:10 PM
i know of a women on a u-boat . check das boot , when you look closely you can see a women hiding from the camera in the controll room . i never noticed but if you have das boot the directors cut and turn on the directors commentairy you.ll find out . but really i think if they had women an submarines (esspecially on u-boats in war time) i would feel sorry for them when they are surrounded by a bunch of guys who would like to get it on.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-07-2004, 08:51 PM
If there were to be life boats I would like to see various kinds. Would be funny to see 2 guys in a rubber raft with a tiny outboard motor like the one in battlefield 1942! LOL. If they come twards from behind and we didnt know us give the comand "Dive Dive Dive" then we hear from the soundman "High speed screws detected sir." , The rubber raft crosses over us. Sound man says "Beer cans in the water sir!" , "up periscope" then we look around. Ahh Atlas! Its only 2 drunken seamen! LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Iohann Moritz
07-08-2004, 06:31 AM
I agree with the shootable lifeboats. Although if I understood correctly the chat script there won't be any http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif It would be great that the crew morale dropped if you ordered them to shoot the seamen or by chance a shot hit a lifeboats.

Operation Petticoat is such a great film... I saw it when I was very young and I didn't remember the name. Thanks Task Force http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Have a nice day.

Redwine
07-08-2004, 08:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Iohann Moritz:
I agree with the shootable lifeboats. Although if I understood correctly the chat script there won't be any http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif It would be great that the crew morale dropped if you ordered them to shoot the seamen or by chance a shot hit a lifeboats.

Operation Petticoat is such a great film... I saw it when I was very young and I didn't remember the name. Thanks Task Force http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Have a nice day.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmhhhh........... I read bad or understand bad..........

The Team said........ "you will not able to shoot them"

This do not means the boats will be not modelated.............. I am wrong ?

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

bertgang
07-08-2004, 09:11 AM
You aren't wrong, but the meaning is unclear.
Why we can't shoot at lifeboats?
Because they are indestructible, or because we can't find them? Or because our fire against the ships destroy them on board? (an accident quite frequent).

Redwine
07-08-2004, 09:49 AM
Agree with you ...is not clear at all, and I think so is not a casuality, may be they do not decide if to modellate it or not.........

I put my opinion........ it must to be modellated and if you shoot them, you must to be fired out of the campaing and loss all your records and name and all medals..........

But if this complex to be modellated, just make the boats as "phnatoms", with no "colision box" and thats all...........

Flight sims take hand of both methods, in many you can pass through the parachutes, in IL-2 if you pass through the parachutes your plane explodes and you are done .......

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

bertgang
07-08-2004, 10:10 AM
Then my choice is for phantoms.
Explosion of sub should be a bit excessive...
Few penalties for war crimes before Nuremberg.

Noline72
07-08-2004, 11:23 AM
so most of you guys dont mind blowing ships out of the water, killing most of the crew in the first blast but shooting a few bullets at a lifeboat isnt allowed ? tsss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Redwine
07-08-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noline72:
so most of you guys dont mind blowing ships out of the water, killing most of the crew in the first blast but shooting a few bullets at a lifeboat isnt allowed ? tsss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Interesting point, yes..... war is not a party, but the main objective is to stop the flow of merchancies to a enemy country, not kill undefense people......... it is extrange but some level of marality can be manintained even at war...... I think so.

Best Regards, Red.

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

Drebbel
07-08-2004, 01:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noline72:
so most of you guys dont mind blowing ships out of the water, killing most of the crew in the first blast but shooting a few bullets at a lifeboat isnt allowed ? tsss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shooting ships is primaraly against equipment (the tonnage must be sunk). Wether the crew dies or not was generally and historically not interesting at all.

But when attacking a lifeboat you are primarly attacking a crew.

RedTerex
07-08-2004, 05:18 PM
Shooting up lifeboats is a cowardly act, perpetrated by immature schitzophrenics. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

And when someone asked the Devteam in the chat room "...Can we have lifeboats so we can shoot em all up..." or words to that effect I just thought..OH well that guy has just sealed our fate now..And as far as I know now..we will NOT be getting lifeboats of ANY description. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

So it will be up to the modders like the PA team to mod a Sampan or something to resemble them. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

sheeesh !

ADDENDUM

I think TASKFORCE1x1 our resident community subsimmer who was in the chat along with myself actually has the transcript of the occaision and may be able to print up this episode and the Devs reply...to satisfy you with what I have just said.

"taker her down 300 feet all ahead standard."

RedTerex

HeibgesU999
07-08-2004, 05:47 PM
How about fleets of fishing boats to hide in?

TASKFORCE1x1
07-09-2004, 12:24 AM
Not going to name a name but here is the question someone wrote and the answer to follow.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[12:37] What about the lifeboats? Will the player be able to shot them or to make prisioners? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> [12:37] &lt;SH3DevTeam&gt; No way you will be able to do that! = <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there goes our chances to save allied crew. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I think though its just too much to code into the game. When the ship sinks and you see lifeboats being boarded it is just too much action to program. Already I'm happy though we can see debris in the water and some debris sink and float to the surface. Having lifeboats I think should be a good thing for your score if you were to save lives and a bad thing if you shoot at them. I've seen a U-boat shoot at the lifeboat before. It was quite disturbing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-09-2004, 03:54 AM
Thank you TASKFORCE1x1 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
and I agree that a debris field is in itself quite a nice feature, with some of it sinking and some floating..yes a nice touch indeed. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

You see guys especially SubSimmers new to this forum; what we are trying to achieve by lobbying the DevTeam as much as we have is for as much detail in SH3 as is computeristically ( new word there LOL) possible.

The more detail equates to more realism which in turn equates to more enjoyment and more enjoyment of the game over a longer period of playability.

The delay that we have incurred due to these lobbies WILL benefit every single person who finaly purchases it.

roll on Q1-2 2005 !

Surface, Ahead flank, Man the AA guns, Man the Deck gun and prepare for war !

RedTerex

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Fri July 09 2004 at 03:04 AM.]

Iohann Moritz
07-09-2004, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Not going to name a name but here is the question someone wrote and the answer to follow.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[12:37] What about the lifeboats? Will the player be able to shot them or to make prisioners? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> [12:37] &lt;SH3DevTeam&gt; No way you will be able to do that! = <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there goes our chances to save allied crew. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not necessarily. Although I agree that it would be a huge load for the program, the DevTeam answered denying the possibility to shoot at them (and then intelligently changed the subject given the inappropiate question). But I still have a little hope they are included as long as they don't require too many resources.

Anyway, you DevTeam tell when the Campaign is ready and then read all this small talk, ok? For almost all of us, dynamic campaign goes first and foremost http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Have a nice day.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-10-2004, 09:13 AM
RedTerex Thankyou and Iohann Moritz Oh yes I agree too with you in part it will be a bit graphic(model) intensive for every ship to have a uniquely accurate lifeboat added. If they had a way though I wouldnt mind it at all. The decision to leave lifeboats out must be because they wouldnt survive the rough seas anyways and possibly also AI wouldnt see then so they get run over all the time because they cant row fast enough! Row Forrest Row! LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif Also could be because AI in a raft or row boat could end up spinning in the wake of another passing AI ship.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-10-2004, 06:28 PM
21st century state of the art programming will be employed in SH3. They have the money they have the technology they can rebiuld it, Steve Austin 6 million dollar man LOL remember the anicdotes LOL

Lifeboats..yes....the old nutshell.

Its not a case of can we, but shall we, the programming is already there for it.
..ie; a boat, small, bobbing up and down on the ocean.

If realism aka detail is put forward as the end and all of SH3 which by all intents and purposes it is, why else back date it till 05 !

So Devteam......please consider the lives of those merchant shipmen, give them a chance to live dont just say " NO " let em drown n die.

Put LIFBOATS in SH3.


wearily yours.

RedTerex

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sun July 11 2004 at 04:35 AM.]

TASKFORCE1x1
07-10-2004, 08:02 PM
Instead of lifeboats which could cause too much graphic lag I would "ok" the use of AI anti-lag sharks to clean up the scraps in the water as long as its enemy and not us. Meanwhile if our boat sinks and we are a drift we would get a ride from a sea plane and whisked to safety. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (I'm big with happy endings cant you tell?) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

HeibgesU999
07-10-2004, 11:21 PM
There are so few times you would be able to hang around and watch the lifeboats, that I'm sure it wouldn't end up being very taxing.

Joe the Killerman
07-16-2004, 07:04 AM
If there are lifeboats, would be nice to model damage on them. Lots of time they were afected by snapshrell, althought they weren't a target. You know, you keep shooting your gun and you can blow something in the ship that destroys a lifeboat not far from it. Or your shots are too short or too long.
Deliberate shooting at them should mean the end of the campaing, accidental should be feasible (only with AI shooting the gun, otherwhise may mean end of campaing, since a lot of people would end learning how to "accidentally" shoot a boat). Of course, we should be able to help them. Would be nice to model a world in wich the Laconia incident could happen, but this is too much for this game!

Das Panzerkunst!

RedTerex
07-16-2004, 04:03 PM
Lifeboats should be included because thats what happened in real life..A ship sank and lifeboats were manned.

There you have it.

Whats the problem? Why are we geting so tangled up in petty beaurocracy, red tape and BS.
High detail and ultra realism please. Dont let the modders have to do it and then we patch patch patch away !

Ahead 1 third !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-16-2004, 04:44 PM
I would love to see the lifeboats included. With all this talk about lifeboats and seeing that this is a popular topic thread we should have our wish just like the dynamic campaign. But maybe it could be a topic that has gone wrong and too far. Now the sim of the year will be called Silent Lifeboat III http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But seriously, having lifeboats should be just as important as eyecandy itself. I guess the difficult thing to do with lifeboats is to model the evacuation from the ship. It would take alot to make a lifeboat to be boarded and lowered into the water especially when the ship is listing quickly. I would be happy to donate money to have lifeboats added. Even if the lifeboats have people we cannot capture or hurt I would be happy sail closely passed a lifeboat. Close enough to see their mad faces would be enough for me. Maybe they could throw debris from the lifeboat to fend us away. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Pappy55
07-16-2004, 05:55 PM
i'm happy to have them if there not interactive in anyway, just there for eye candy..

"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

RedTerex
07-17-2004, 04:47 AM
I don't see the actual mechanism of the lifeboats as realistic as being lowered into the water and being individualy manned by little pixel fellas !

How I would encompass it would be as simple as lifeboats 'appearing' along side a ship AS the ship is sinking.

Animated characters within the lifeboat would not be neccessary.

Merely modelled as is on a representative basis instead of nothing at all.

If Debris can be modelled and included in SH3 then lifeboats can too.

I will continue to lobby for them as I believe that for a realism feature it will be unsurpassable in any Naval gaming Sim/game and will help to set a definate presidence of realism thereafter.

The merchant vessel is sinking Sir !

RedTerex

SailorSteve
07-17-2004, 05:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noline72:
so most of you guys dont mind blowing ships out of the water, killing most of the crew in the first blast but shooting a few bullets at a lifeboat isnt allowed ? tsss http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The difference between sinking an enemy ship and shooting lifeboats in the water is the same as the difference between shooting down an enemy plane and strafing the guy in his parachute. One is an act of war, the other is an act of murder. You've been playing too many sniper games.

Or, to put it in the British vernacular: "It simply isn't done, old chap!".

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-17-2004, 04:19 PM
I agree with RedTerex.

I think our ability to have lifeboats is shot down though. Maybe we can start asking for something more in budget like Life Preservers! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Pappy55
07-17-2004, 04:21 PM
well if there non intercative you can shoot them up..well you can waste ammo trying :P

"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

Noline72
07-18-2004, 08:46 AM
SailorSteve, the germans did it in the battle off britain "strafing the guy in his parachute", and submariners had orders from Berlin to shoot survivors me thinks so.....its not a pretty world out there he ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

Drebbel
07-18-2004, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noline72:
&lt;snip&gt;, and submariners had orders from Berlin to shoot survivors me thinks so.....&lt;snip&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, never heard of that, what is your source ?

Noline72
07-18-2004, 03:07 PM
mmm huh no, im wrong there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif i looked it up, i was thinking of the lakonia order but it doesnt say shooting

1) Every attempt to save survivors of sunken ships, also the fishing up of swimming men and putting them on board lifeboats, the setup right of overturned lifeboats, the handing over of food and water have be discontinued. These rescues contradict the primary demands of warfare esp. the destruction of enemy ships and their crews.
2) The orders concerning the bringing in of skippers and chief engineers stay in effect.
3) Survivors are only to rescue, if their statements are important for the boat.
4) Stay hard. Don't forget, that the enemy didn't take any regard for woman and children when bombarding German towns.

though im pretty sure Hitler wanted it like this site says
http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/nsdap/Donitz.html

Drebbel
07-19-2004, 02:16 AM
Yep, and we all know what caused this Laconia order.

But no proof any where of a "shoot survivors order" !

TASKFORCE1x1
07-19-2004, 07:56 AM
In SHII some ships wouldnt sink for maybe many,many hours. If we had life boats we could select men to board the vessel and help scuttle their ship. +1 for our vote. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Noline72
07-19-2004, 09:18 AM
no there is more about the laconia order, read this site : http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/nsdap/Donitz.html

if you do you could read "It is also asserted that the German U-boat arm not only did not carry out the warning and rescue provisions of the
Protocol but that Doenitz deliberately ordered the killing of survivors of shipwrecked vessels, whether enemy or
neutral. The Prosecution has introduced much evidence surrounding two orders of Doenitz, War Order Number 154, issued in 1939, and the so-called "Laconia" Order of 1942."
there must be more on this subject anybody knows any good sites ?

bertgang
07-19-2004, 11:33 AM
Some historian said the opposite.
Hitler wanted the murder of survivors, Doenitz not.
Nuremberg was a different affair...

Joe the Killerman
07-19-2004, 05:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noline72:
no there is more about the laconia order, read this site : http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/nsdap/Donitz.html

if you do you could read "It is also asserted that the German U-boat arm not only did not carry out the warning and rescue provisions of the
Protocol but that Doenitz deliberately ordered the killing of survivors of shipwrecked vessels, whether enemy or
neutral. The Prosecution has introduced much evidence surrounding two orders of Doenitz, War Order Number 154, issued in 1939, and the so-called "Laconia" Order of 1942."
there must be more on this subject anybody knows any good sites ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here!

http://uboat.net/ops/laconia.htm

Here!

http://uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=55

And here!

http://uboat.net/history/peleus.htm

And here, again!

http://uboat.net/history/athenia.htm

Commonly, KL helped or tried to help the crews of the ships they sank. Even D├┬Ânitz himself refused to acomplish a Hitler's order. There is only one documented case in with KL ordered fire against the wreck -there should have been more cases, actually-, but it doesn't look to be the most common fact.

Das Panzerkunst!

macker33
07-19-2004, 06:22 PM
There was an incident in the mediteranian where an allied hospital ship was starting to sink and it sent out a distress signal,3 uboats in the area were immediately ordered to offer assistence but during the rescue the ubouts were attacked by allied airplanes and suffered from the attack,thereafter uboats were forbidden by hitler himself to respond to allied distress signals.

macker33
07-19-2004, 06:25 PM
Sorry about that,its already been said,i'll have to remember to read everything before posting.

RedTerex
07-20-2004, 12:48 AM
For those like myself who are screaming out for realism in SH3, well they would NOT shoot up lifeboats.

Why wouldnt they?

Well the answer is simple; It would NOT be realistic to do so, as in real life it never happened (albeit once)So therefore the REAL subsimmer would not shoot lifeboats up because the Historic accuracey of doing so would null and void his entire patrol/career in SH3,by default.

U-BOAT SHOOTS LIFEBOAT, KILLING ALL SURVIVORS !
yeah right !
That type of headline was Allied propoganda and this propogana spread like wildfire until in the end it was accepted as the truth. Excellent propoganda by any proportion.

Lifeboats will bring a realism to SH3 of the like that will put this entire WWII sub warfare experience into perspective.

Surface, surface the Boat !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-20-2004, 08:09 AM
Could be a couple of reasons we wont get the lifeboats. One may be just what we are talking about that too many people would shoot them up. Another reason could be so many people in the life boat they would starve at sea and possibly a few would resort to cannibalism. Or if only a man and a woman survived on one boat...well you know what could happen. Things could get X rated over there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Jolly good fun. You would always have perverts peeking at them closely with a periscope behind their boat without them knowing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-20-2004, 08:52 AM
Haha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Yes true, very true but I think that they would be more interested in their survival than procreation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Thats not the kind of realism I was lobbying for, but I'm sure that once the lifeboat has been rescued and the survivors taken to a port that any females and males that have found new freindships http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif can be animated with special modelling and rendering to bring SH3 up into X rated adult entertainment.
But which members of the Devteam are going to provide the sound effects? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Lifeboats are for life not just for Christmas!

Periscope depth, ahead standard.

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-21-2004, 08:06 AM
If we get The Sims(Maxis) integrated into SHIII then we could have some action. Can have lots of people to save. Would be nice to have a 1st person shooter mode where you can jump off a ship or you can see your buddy afar jumping off his sub or ship. Maybe another reason the lifeboats are to be left out is because of map limitations? Im not sure about this but maybe we cannot circle the world. If there is actually a stopping point on the map I wonder if we still can fall off the map. If thats true then the under powered life boats would never have a chance anyways as they would get cought in a current and fall off the map like it were a waterfall. (would be quite commical LOL) Im sure everything is fine with SHIII and we should be able to roam around the world if we want. I will test every one of my curiosities. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-22-2004, 06:06 AM
yes indeed, as far as I know the U-boots operated in all areas during WWII, So a world cruise could be in order.

And dont worry about survivors drifting in their lifeboat, they could be picked up by a SHÔú version of the Carpathia http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-22-2004, 06:55 AM
If we do a round the world trip do you want to patrol with me RedTerex? Maybe others will follow. We can plot a course around the world and maybe the panama canal will be done by then. Who knows what we will find alongs the way. We could expect anything. Local reports says there is heavy lifeboat activity in the golf of mexico. We will find crouded lifeboats and makeshift rafts crossing the golf to come to America. We will once and for all know if lifeboats have been included into SHIII. They had eastereggs in SHII. WHo knows what we may find in SHIII. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Pappy55
07-22-2004, 08:56 AM
a jetski with a torpedo launcher :P

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

RedTerex
07-22-2004, 10:38 AM
Great Idea, in fact if we could get a few more regulars from this forum and all leave a selected port together and play in real time, each in our own subs. sort of wolfpack. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

we could play for say 4 hour intervals, save-game them rejoin again at next set day/time.

reccomend 12.00 till 16:00 GMT or thereabouts.

Times/dates/ hours can all be arranged.

The fact that we could play in real time would be as real as possible with no time copmression etc the MP game could last for a week or more LOL that would be a scream.
And of course sink a few ships along the way !
indeed even target some harbours, Porstmouth and Southhapmton could be on our hit list ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm actually British, but what the hell, I'm a mercenary and will fight for whatever side pays LOL. Reichmarks are fine yep ! just sent em Suisse ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anyone interested in the 2005 SHIII forum Wolfpack?
If so we shall start a new thread on it.

ahead flank !

RedTerex

RedTerex
07-22-2004, 10:47 AM
The 1st Virtual Flotilla Group.
(1VFG)
rofl http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

RedTerex

RedTerex
07-22-2004, 05:56 PM
DevTeam Please note:
Results (93 votes counted so far):

63%
YES. include life-boats with full realism.

24%
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at

4%
NO. I dont want them.

9%
I'm not fussed either way.

So far that totals up like this;

87% want lifeboats and if we add the 'not fussed' thats 96% happy with life boats being included in SH3. With just 4% who dont want them.

we could say that 93 people are a fair wedge of society and speak on behalf of millions more.

Lifeboats, aah yes indeed, just think the crews of those merchant ships CAN be saved.

ahead standard !

RedTerex

macker33
07-22-2004, 08:07 PM
Maybe a world cruise maybe a round the world sub race,

Some things would need to be worked out in advance,like the starting and finishing points,wether everybody had to take the same route and when the race could actually take place,it doesnt have to be an online event as long as everybody agrees to be honest,as soon as somebody completes a lap of the world they can post their time on one of the boards.The prize which is a good one is that person will forever be the first person to sail around the world,**** dasterdly and muttely never saw this coming.

Maybe there could be waypoints,seven waypoints for the seven seas.Again it depends on peoples honesty to start at the same time as everybody else and to post an acurate time plus the route taken and a captains log.

hauitsme
07-22-2004, 11:53 PM
Why not take screen shots of certain landmarks as proof of where you've been and the time it took to get there. But then you have to have fuel, food, and other supplies to get there too! Just watch out for those pesky, and sometimes helpfull currents. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

RedTerex
07-23-2004, 12:48 AM
well after thinking about this a bit more how about instead of the world cruise we just form an attack pack.
Set of from Kiel&lt;variable heading for Porstmouth&lt;variable and sink as many NME as possible all done in real time at
4 hour stints&lt;variable

Macker33 and Hauitsme some good ideas there, lets keep em coming and try to formulate something out of this.

It promises to be excellent fun whatever we decide and with good comms between subs it will be realistic as hell almost like going back in time and doing it for real LOL

Lets face it guys, Computers rock ! &lt; big time

regards.

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-23-2004, 01:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Lets face it guys, Computers rock ! &lt; big time

regards.
RedTerex
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I used to life in NY in queens and I wonder how my old neighborhood is now. Computers are so kool now-a-days I bet no one hangs around out on the streets at night except 1 or 2 basketball kids with no money. (was there, done that) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-23-2004, 01:17 AM
All the action, tension and drama is no longer on the streets, its all been transported over onto the PC Monitor.

I love playing Raven Shield Rainbow Six-3 for example and all the guns I want are in that game and its great blasting all the bad guys.
"all the guns I want " &lt;&lt;&lt;check that out LOL and not one of them can hurt anyone EVER&gt;&gt;cool eh !
"great blasting bad guys"&lt;&lt; check it out as I quote myself again LOL. Totaly legal and no-one realy gets hurt as its all virtual.

" my world is my monitor ! and as the B Gates crew so rightly said..Where do you want to go today ? "

I used to shoot real guns in a proper gun club and meet Military RE-enactment guys and it was all so blinking expensive..but not on a PC haha!

Yep PC'S are cool, cool, cool,

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-23-2004, 04:12 AM
I agree. I get a kick out of what happens to people's characters on the net. I really like multiplayer and its the FIRST I look for in a game or sim. Its always fun to sit somewhere with a sniper rifle and wait for someone to get comfortable next to a flag in a capture the flag map and smoke their ****. LOL do it enough times and you really tick them off. I got patience like you wouldnt believe and will be somewhere that is not so obvious. Its always good fun to detonate remote charges and rock someone's world. Good times in BF1942 and Vietnam LOL. On certain maps of Vietnam I would snipe the pilot through an open door. Now that really gets their blood boiling. LOL its so much fun especially when they start to look for you and they cant find you. Its a real scream! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-23-2004, 06:19 AM
I play a lot of Single-player mode, but its never the same as playing against real dudes on the other end of that monitor LOL in MP.

regards.

RedTerex

RedTerex
07-23-2004, 06:22 AM
Ooooops! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif I must appologise to everyone who reads these last posts as they have been slightly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif

Got carried away ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

Up-periscope!......ahead standard.....Ok, surface the boot !

RedTerex

LPV
07-23-2004, 06:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pito_1st:
Also possibility to pick up survivors and take them on board, and put them ashore or home would be "nice to have" option.
At the beginning of war that wasn't forbidden.
And it would also affect crew morale.

P.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Shooting survivors on the deck would be to simple at least if you use you deck gun it is a "stray shell" that sinks the life boat.

run slient run deep!

LPV
07-23-2004, 06:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
Could get quite crouded if we took men aboard. Would be great to assimulate new crew from an abandoned neighboring sub. If we sunk a boat that had some military nurses I would be happy to save them! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

me to but I wouldnt save there clothes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Keep on Smiling'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

run slient run deep!

Herr Kaleun
07-23-2004, 08:54 AM
I have been reading the Das Boot book and there is a lot in there not in the film or mini series. For instance they stop a ship on the surface, believing it to be an american liner. In fact it was sold from the us to the spanish, but the 1WO didnt check the register properly. Anyway they were late sending acrros a boat with the papers, so U-96 fired a torp at it, which failed. Then the boat came across and the mistake realised, the captain told Buckheim that if the torp has hit, they would have had to erase all evidence, ie sink lifeboats.

I think that sinkable lifeboats and dd's stopping to pick up survivors should be included, then it is up to the player to decide wheter to sink them or ignore them just like real life

Alaaaarrmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!

TASKFORCE1x1
07-23-2004, 10:02 AM
I think the other reason we wont see lifeboats modeled in the sim is because possibly they would be always to blame for tripping allied mines. All of a sudden BOOM! POOFT! there goes another lifeboat. Could be seen as cruel and unusual punishment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

vmannz
07-23-2004, 11:13 AM
My grand father was sunk 3 times and said he saw the sub that hit them once and the sub waited 10 mins before firing the 88 in to the old girl time for crew to pull away

Egan2.0
07-23-2004, 05:39 PM
Anyone read 'Run Silent Run Deep' Here?

Spoiler for anyone who wants to read it................................................ ............................................



At the end of that book the Skipper orders his boat to run over each of the life boats to make sure that there is no possibility of Bungo Pete getting to shore and commanding another ship.

Now, what struck me about his wasn't the idea of a court martial but the horror of his crew towards him. They still followed orders and so on but, clearly, there morale took a real beating.

If this feature is ever likely to be added then I would say that, even more than A court martial for players who enjoy cold blooded murder, the morale of the crew should be altered in such away that all reacton times etc be damaged for the remainder of the time the skipper controls the boat, thus simulating the crews disgust for a captain who went 'too far.'

Of course, the other major difference to keep in mind here was that the skipper in RSRD had been ordered to destroy Bungo Pete whatever the cost and Pete WAS a warship skipper and not a merchant sea-man....

TASKFORCE1x1
07-23-2004, 08:38 PM
With so much interest in lifeboats maybe UBI will make the first sim LifeBoats-Do or die. LOL

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-24-2004, 06:25 AM
With now over 100 votes and many many people posting and reading this thread the interest is definately there.

Results (101 votes counted so far):

66%
YES. include life-boats with full realism.

22%
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at

4%
NO. I dont want them.

8%
I'm not fussed either way.

The majority are for life-boats to increase the tension, drama, trauma and added realism to SH3.

Can Ubi-Soft ill-afford to ignore this important issue. So far they have been meggafantastic in all areas of this community,
viz;
Customer relations
Customer support
feedback
Interest
Community support
Live chat

So we now need an answer to this issue that has grown almost into a soap.

Looking at these figures and enlarging the total (rounded off to 100)we could say;

If 5 Million people(an estimate on everyone who buys SH3 worldwide) voted then 4,400,000 of them would have voted for life-boats of some description being included into SH3, including the 'not fussed' this would rise to a huge lead of 4,800,000 votes for life-boats leaving a mere 200,000 saying they didnt want them.

96% The figures NOW speak for themselves.

Life-boats MUST be included in SH3.

ahead flank!

RedTerex

Pappy55
07-24-2004, 06:36 AM
lol what is with all this life boat talk.. this might as well be a forum for Sim Coastgurad http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

and inter-op with Lifeboat Commander LOLhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

TASKFORCE1x1
07-24-2004, 08:07 AM
SHIII with the Baywatch addon...to be announced. LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

negus1
07-24-2004, 10:18 AM
pacific fighters will have lifeboats, see www.il2sturmovik.com (http://www.il2sturmovik.com). and of course they will be destructable.

so why not in SHIII?

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

RedTerex
07-24-2004, 06:15 PM
Thanks for that interesting notification there Negus1.

SH3 should not IMHO be bettered, what with all the extra add-ons and other specific requests being implemented. Life-boats, although mentioned by myself as an added drama, tauma and tension into the Sim, should be there as a requirement more from a whimsicle want.

As you say ' Pacific Fighters' already have them so the DevTeam must have thought that they had a reasonable impact in the game to have actualy included them.

I will keep on lobbying through this media until we have a satisfactory answer to this issue of extra realism that brings the game/sim into the 21st century as far as excitement and historic based programming goes.

regards.

RedTerex

HeibgesU999
07-24-2004, 06:29 PM
Or more correctly, of the 200,000 worldwide who will buy SH3..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Dawg-of-death
07-24-2004, 10:43 PM
If this is a WWII Sub Sim, I would sayKILL THE ENEMY. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

TASKFORCE1x1
07-25-2004, 12:37 AM
I think they have plans for DC. They just dont want us to toy with the lifeboats in the water with the nose of our sub like a seal plays with a ball in a pool. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-25-2004, 03:24 AM
We will have, sea(&lt; important) harbours, ships, subs, u-boot pens, coastline, DC, etc etc but no life-boats are scheduled http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

I'm British and when I sink a BRITISH ship in SH3 I WANT the survivors to be saved in LIFEBOATS.
or I wont enjoy the game knowing that those poor little British pixel fellas have ALL drowned, burned up, blown up or otherwise demised.

German players arent too fussed, ok thats cool I can dig that but British players should be fussed.

sigh! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

RedTerex

hippy-dude
07-25-2004, 03:35 AM
well it would be cool on multiplayer if you sink a ship and the caption of the sunken ship actually gets to command the life boat and you can give them the option whether to join the dark side (My sub) lol or die. Now that would be amazing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Peace dude (LOL) i love annoying hippys

hippy-dude
07-25-2004, 03:38 AM
or even have a realism option for people who don't like shooting them. To plz everybody.

Peace dude (LOL) i love annoying hippys

LPV
07-25-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hippy-dude:
or even have a realism option for people who don't like shooting them. To plz everybody.

Peace dude (LOL) i love annoying hippys<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that idea is perfect it suits people like me who want to sink the lifeboats with "stray shells" and for those who dont want to touch the lifeboat/rafts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

run slient run deep!

TASKFORCE1x1
07-25-2004, 06:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I'm British and when I sink a BRITISH ship in SH3 I WANT the survivors to be saved in LIFEBOATS.
or I wont enjoy the game knowing that those poor little British pixel fellas have ALL drowned, burned up, blown up or otherwise demised.

German players arent too fussed, ok thats cool I can dig that but British players should be fussed.
sigh! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
RedTerex
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm German (but live in america 99% my whole life) I'll go with you RedTerex as a wolfpack and if we came across the chance to save people I would do that. The sim should show tonnage and sailors saved as a score. If we cannot have the lifeboats and we have to sink everything with people on board then maybe the dev team should make them look like something different than people so not to hurt the feelings of some of us. The little blue people could be lemmings instead. We are used to see lemmings die in the lemmings game. When one jumps off the ship the others follow is typical of lemmings. Then we dont have to worry when they catch on fire,they get squished, explode, suicide, etc..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hippy-dude
07-25-2004, 07:51 AM
well im one little phycopathic b****d so i say just have the option to be able to blow them to peices with the aa's and have it turned on by deafault http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif

Peace dude (LOL) i love annoying hippys

hippy-dude
07-25-2004, 01:07 PM
well what doe's eveybody think about my multiplayer idea p-6 i think http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Peace dude (LOL) i love annoying hippys

hauitsme
07-26-2004, 01:38 AM
Yes, there should be lifeboats, and No, you shouldn't shoot them. Save your ammo for something that can shoot at you. Instead, just line up your sub and run em over, back up, and do it again! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

LPV
07-26-2004, 04:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Yes, there should be lifeboats, and No, you shouldn't shoot them. Save your ammo for something that can shoot at you. Instead, just line up your sub and run em over, back up, and do it again! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that would take to long use a "stray shell" to sink the lifeboat and use the AA gun to kill anyone who is left in the water. Spend to much time running the survivors over and you could miss the chance to sink that ocean liner think how many lifeboats there would be.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

run slient run deep!

TASKFORCE1x1
07-26-2004, 09:19 AM
Should be able to shoot at them but at a price. It should effect your score and have some effect on your crew. Maybe the crew will loose moral and also maybe they should be less reactive to your commands because of their feelings of uncertainty about how you command. I vote for more constructive means of simplay. I would like to save not only lifeboats but also many mermaids. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Drebbel
07-27-2004, 10:04 AM
I also want rotting corpses in the sea, sharks eating people, sailors abusing woman, officers abusing their power, people getting a nervous brake down, babies with their guts out floating in the water, animation of sailors visiting the *****house, skinny starving people in a raft, people that shi-t in their pants from fear, burning humans jumping of ships, coats insulated with jew hair, drowning people, animation of a death squad for court martialed sailors, and last but not least a chest full of watches like in Das Boot.

Only then SHIII will be realistic enought for me !

negus1
07-27-2004, 10:18 AM
I do not understand why we can not have a serious discussion on this issue.

As someone else pointed out already: it can also give you a good feeling to see that survivors made it to the lifeboats.

I personally always feel better when I play Il2 online and I see that the other guy was able to bail out (and of course I do not kill him).

So from my point of view you the dev team should include lifeboats. I do not understand why we have parachutes in IL2 and liferafts in Pacific Fighters but not in SHIII. Isn't it much more problematic to have no lifeboats which means that all crewmen will go down with their sinking ship?

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

TASKFORCE1x1
07-28-2004, 08:08 AM
Would be great to get a reward if we could help survivors. It would be like a medic score of something added to our list on the server score tables. It would also add a bit of danger for when we try and save our fellow comrads who might of been lucky to surface long enough to abandon boat. A time limit could be added so you would have to hurry to save men in the water if after 15 min to a half hour or so depending on temperature. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-29-2004, 12:26 AM
Dont forget that we had a close encounter with the Life-boat theme when we had to rescue the downed pilot in his dingy in SH Commanders Edition. Saving the little pixel fellah was always a highlight and a satisfying thing to do.

Just imagine 2 or 3 life-boats rammed with little pixel fellas, Its only 'basically'the tonnage sunk that counts Hurrah! but not the actual lives of pixel fellas.
moreover, several tons of supplies have not made it to enemy territory due to your efforts and skill, the crew is irelevant, so why not have them saved?

And can we have some sensible answers please guys. One can often feel like a spaceman and head of to Mars with ideas.

regards.

RedTerex

hauitsme
07-29-2004, 01:56 AM
You can't take any prisoners. There just isn't the room or stores. Only the high ranking officers, if any, and there better be orders to that effect. How many people are on each ship? How many ships did you get? You've still got lots of fuel and torps, but now what? Back to the nearest friendly port to drop off prisoners?

Taxi, Taxi! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I've looked at the layouts of dozens of types of subs, but still have'nt found the brig. How many of your useless crew do you assign to guard duty? (They didn't have anything else to do!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Yes, there should be lifeboats.

Wow, what a subject! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Drebbel
07-29-2004, 02:10 AM
There are many examples in WWII submarine warfare of prisoners taken aboard submarines. For the AXIS as well as the ALLIES.

RedTerex
07-29-2004, 06:35 AM
The idea of actually taking lifeboat survivors on board as prisoners hasnt actualy occured as a feature that is wanted or needed.

Yes indeed many incidents occured out there on the high seas during WWII and it would be nice if most if not all of it was reproduced for SH3.

Its what makes the difference in many ways from that of an Arcade style game to a moving, tension, drama filled sim.

And because its not historically accurate to shoot at any lifeboats I would go along with many of your suggestions that would employ the termination of the game and deletion all scores if you did so, that would solve that little problem.

RedTerex

bertgang
07-29-2004, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
And because its not historically accurate to shoot at any lifeboats I would go along with many of your suggestions that would employ the termination of the game and deletion all scores if you did so, that would solve that little problem.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That would solve this problem, as well as the phantom lifeboats (an option I'd prefer), but a different problem is still open.
Why to have lifeboats, without visible men on the enemy ships?
Lifeboats have to be put at sea by crewmen, not to magically appear next sinking ships; little sense to have lifeboats at sea if, before that, nobody was seen on the bridge. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
07-29-2004, 07:20 AM
Thinking quietly to myself tapping the side of my head with my finger I'm thinking that possibly the dev team regrets putting people on board those ships because now we need many lifeboats to save them. I'f it was a money issue I would like to donate some of my money for the cause to have lifeboats. Ya just cant live without them! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I bet someone in the next live chat brings this subject up again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-30-2004, 12:38 AM
Bertgang, professes "...Lifeboats have to be put at sea by crewmen, not to magically appear next sinking ships; little sense to have lifeboats at sea if, before that, nobody was seen on the bridge..."

See it as proportionate representation as opposed to disproportionate representation viz the subject of Lifeboats.

You wont see all the boxes, canvas, toilet rolls and crates modelled on the decks but by golly you will see all the debris from said items floating on the surface after a ship has sunk !

Whereas Bertagang admonishes lifeboats on the grounds that the crew arent visible http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
is trivial. There are crewmen on those ships somewhere, believe me.

RedTerex

RedTerex
07-30-2004, 12:44 AM
And Taskforce1x1 LOL the idea of raising money for lifeboats made me ROFL..good one.

It reminded me of the days here in the UK when the RNLI appeal was abundant ( Royal National Lifeboat Institute) and many fund raising schemes appeared like the ' Blue Peter Appeal' all to raise cash to buy them.

So I would gladly donate towards the SHLF (silent hunter lifeboat fund)

Lets start the appeal buddy !

RedTerex

ps:
check these votes out. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Results (110 votes counted so far):

68%
YES. include life-boats with full realism.

20%
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at

5%
NO. I dont want them.

7%
I'm not fussed either way.


Kind of says it all, the interest IS there DevTeam take note !

hauitsme
07-30-2004, 02:15 AM
OK , How about this.

Debris from sinking/sunk ships.
Different size pieces of debris.
Hopefully lots of variety.

Remap a piece of debris as a lifeboat.

Now if you shoot it, it's still only debris, right?

But no, now they're people!

But then they were people also before you put a torp in thier ship.

Isn't this fun!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

bertgang
07-30-2004, 04:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:

Whereas Bertagang admonishes lifeboats on the grounds that the crew arent visible http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
is trivial. There are crewmen on those ships somewhere, believe me.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right as principle, but if SHIII shows only empty enemy ships, probably you will see no more than empty lifeboats.

TASKFORCE1x1
07-30-2004, 08:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:

Remap a piece of debris as a lifeboat.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That should work well. You can swap textures and models easy in SHII and ghost recon and change their names to be called up by the mission. Funny thing though you could get a side effect like some of the SHIII debris float to the surface. Would be funny to see a lifeboat full of pixel fellas rise break the surface like a Uboat. LOL! I hope they give a model editor or at least make it compatable with my Lightwave program. Would be nice to have the ability to have an autoloader installed on our server/client sides of our SHIII program so we can get updated silently with new files. In quake2 when ever you connect to a custom server the game autoupdates the client with the new map and texture files. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
07-30-2004, 08:52 AM
Almost forgot: Should be able to also set model attributes too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-30-2004, 09:41 AM
REF: Shooting up Lifeboats.

This true story (link below) is for people who like the idea of shooting up Lifeboats.

Well I tell you, go and join the Japanese Navy, because that was the only thing those little yellow ****** were good for.

www.usmm.org/felknorhovey.html (http://www.usmm.org/felknorhovey.html)

The Germans in the Kriegrsmarine-Unterseebootwaffen were more honourable, hence stories of them shooting up lifeboats are as rare as rocking horse faeces !

and SH3 is NOT a Japanese Sub Sim or I would not even entertain the idea of lifeboats.

ahead full !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-30-2004, 09:52 AM
Thanks for the site RedTerex. I read that just now. That made me mad to know how lame they were to shoot and try and ram the lifeboat. For a culture that was so into honor it was a disgrace that the japanese went out and did such things. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
07-30-2004, 10:04 AM
Knowing the Japanese likes to erase any of their trails they leave with their sub if they always atacked Lifeboats like that this is what I would do about it if I were in charge.


If it were me in WWII I would set a boobie trap out there and plant a few lifeboats together say about 20 yards apart with a rope to keep them sort of together. The fake bodies fully clothed would be filled with flares. The next time they shot at a lifeboat it would be their last. If its night our sub would be near and since the japs would be blinded cause they set off the boat of flares it should be easy giving the medicine they deserve. Surface for AA guns, Main guns, or torpedo and they wont ever know it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif The duke would never hit a little guy! Japan back then just didnt war fair! I think Japanese people now are good. I like them. But this is to reference the ones only without any honor. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Keep on Smiling'

negus1
07-30-2004, 10:09 AM
I think one has to understand the mentality of a Samurai. If defeated any honorable warrior would go down with his ship or commit Harakiri. Who escapes to water or lifeboats has lost his honour and deserves to be killed.

I do not share this opinion but one should see this different cultural perception of honour!

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

bertgang
07-30-2004, 10:13 AM
It's a sad side of japanese martial culture.
A defeated warrior lost his honour too.
Better to kill him, if is unable to do seppuku/harakiri.
In that way, killing survivors is quite an humanitarian action.

negus1
07-30-2004, 10:26 AM
And don't tell that Germans were so honourable (although I am German myself). Okay, Kriegsmarine was quite honourable. But also think of units like the Waffen-SS that expected no pardon but also gave no pardon.

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

RedTerex
07-30-2004, 03:13 PM
Negus I said "...The Germans in the Kriegrsmarine-Unterseebootwaffen ..."

I did not say all Germans, I JUST stipulated those of the Kriegsmarine-Unterseebootwaffen.
I dont give a monkeys cuss about OTHER armies as that is totaly irelevant in this forum.

However in a more civil responce to your post and not being hypocritical by digressing into OTHER armies I would add this:

Agreed, the SS were a mob of murderers who disgraced Germany.

But. NOT all of The Waffen-SS should not be tarred with the same brush as the general SS, and SD however. The SS-Liebstandart Adolf Hitler regiment for example were quite honourable, brave and proffessional winning many battle honours with valour. They were a stalwart regiment of the highest pedigree and should not be besmirched by the unfortunate actions of others.

regards

RedTerex

Pappy55
07-30-2004, 03:31 PM
I dont belive all the SS were evil..Only hitler and the hight party officials were true Nazies, and maby a handfull of thugs in the armed forces but i would say at least 90% were just normal people who were scared and followed thee orders due to living in fear..

Take a quote from the film Cross Of Iron (may not be to the letter, but along these lines)

"Hes not fighting for his country, or the stinking party, hes not even fighting for himself hes fighting for his survival god bless him"

I have actually spoken to a veteran who was in the SS he was suprisingally fully againt it all but had to do some awefull things under orders, and if he dident follow then he would proberly suffer the same fate.

and on the sunject of Japanese Samurai culture. I am facinated by there fudual era warrior and there art of the sword. i have consicered doing Keindo stick training http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I have always found the Asian's intesting. Asia's people are some of the nicest and friendliest people I have meet, they all seam to have a mutual respect for each other which is greatly lacking here in the west http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
but back on topic.. I cant believe this lifeoat poll has gone on for so long, its amazing how somthing so small is big at the same time.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

AK235
07-30-2004, 05:54 PM
Although i wouldnt do this so what if ppl will shoot the lifeboats ino realism is what ppl want but its not real at the end of the day so if ppl do shoot up the life boats it doesnt harm any1, altho they r abit messed up at the morality of it!
Stick them in and let the ppl decide if they shoot them or not also how can u b punishd for it the crew wont say out incase they r in the frame aswell wouldnt they, because if they didnt obey the captain they would b shot. Like in Das-boot (gr8 film) Yohann goes mad n tries to escape and what happns the captain fetches his luger! Ok so he didnt get shot but that would b the outcome 4 unruly crewmembers.

RedTerex
07-30-2004, 06:15 PM
Its more political than anything AK235. Although you have posted some realistic ideas in your post, it wont make the grade in the eyes of the all seing all doing Ubi-soft.

They do not want to be associated with the slaughter of innocents and poeple who cant fight back, in any video games and I dont blame them.

Its a very precise and touchy subject is Lifeboats and it needs to be handled with great care.

One suggestion that I read on this forum and thought it had a great possability was the idea of 'phantom ' Lifeboats.
These would have an all singing all dancing pixel fella crew waving and shouting "ahoy there" etc but be totaly impervious to bullets and bombs etc just like Captain Scartlet of Gerry Anderson Fame.

But seriously a 'phantom' lifeboat would add that extra bit of realism to complete the ship as it sinks.

1.Ship spotted.
2.ship tracked
3.ship lined up for the kill
4.ship hit
5.ship sinks
5a.Lifeboats remain
6.Submarine bogs off for another target.

RedTerex

AK235
07-30-2004, 06:31 PM
Yeah i can agree to "phantom" life boats either way im not too fussed really because ino i wont gun them down because I'd imagine what that would b like if the scenario was reversed as in me in the life boat n sum lovly AA guns pointing at me i wouldnt like to b shot up so i wouldnt do it to others. One thing has to b said when has war n politics gone hand in hand? One thing about the moral thing about slaughtering life boat crew wouldnt the crew work harder because they r scared of the captain as he seems a butcher not a submariner. Either way i cant c it being included because ppl would find gunning them down funny because you can get away with it. Take grand theft auto vice city for example. If uve played it im sure uve gon on a rampage n trashed everyone and everything in site once uve borrowd a tank. People aint really botherd about it. Then again tho that is expected of GTA games so it aint really a shock to any1 but i suppose some ppl would find it quite sick for you to gun down life boat men, even tho this actually makes the game more realistic as you face the same choices as a u-boat captain shoot them or leave them be

HeibgesU999
07-30-2004, 06:38 PM
Although I think GTA is fantastic and certainly groundbreaking, the gameplay between that and a subsim (traditionally for adults) is much different.

But I also think GTA would be amazing even with no violence. The scope of that game is what is really amazing.

RedTerex
07-30-2004, 08:28 PM
You see Gents, "realism", this is the main watch-word of this entire forum, but, how real, how much and how far do we go with it...I say all the way...BUT...

We must take all avenues into consideration for the millions who will play SH3, not just our own. Inescapable politics dictate that a GAME as oppossed to real life should contain certain eddifices such as censorship and sensativety clauses.
A fine line has to be met and will be met regardless of what we want to that extreme.

I have merely lobbied for a representaion of LifeBoats in SH3 as opposed to nothing at all.

The full realism aspect is defined in my paragraphs above as to the thinking of Ubi-soft, although I would like to see Full realism ie shootable Lifeboats myself &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;that I would not shoot at personally&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; They will not be included into SH3 as stated in the recent chat.

So "Phantom" lifeboats would be an acceptable option..albeit the only option.

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-30-2004, 09:31 PM
HeibgesU999 GTA1 I like that game. I liked it so much I modified the maps so when I play multiplayer with someone as we map share you can use the garages to repair the cars. I played it so hard that we would run out of cars! LOL. Good game with or without the violence. I laugh at the unrealistic commical death animation and the audience says "ohhhhh" when you get drilled. Kinda feels like being watched in a colosseum. The music too is commical.

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
07-30-2004, 09:45 PM
RedTerex, I agree with you. I would like to say though that in my opinion SHIII should have everything real life has. I build plastic and wooden models. As a model builder I know that the more sharper detail and content the better model. To play it safe in SHIII I would program SHIII to have everything shut off by default. There would be a parental control for the master screen that requires a password. After you get passed the screen you can have selections that have an on/off button attached to those selections. If people want to see something then its up to them to select the option. Ive seen questionable games make the market anyways and they had options that could be turned on and off. Its a good idea to have this for 2 reasons: One is for those who cannot stomach certain events and two, those who cannot process the extra images due to slower PC's. Its a win-win situation. I like to see everything as it is in real life. For someone to say to me that I cannot see something suggests oppression. I use common sense. I was given eyes from my creator. If someone forces me to not see or hear something I know thats just wrong! People need to lighten up in here and enjoy life. Most my posts are to keep people happy and to just enjoy the forum while we wait for SHIII to come out. RedTerex Im happy you started this post about lifeboats. Its fun to play with the idea weather or not it does come out in SHIII as an added feature. Anyone who complains about lifeboats being over talked about is complaining to either show they kiss @$$ with someone who they think are popular/special, or they live in a screwed up oppressed society of complaining people. As my motto goes Keep on smiling Everyone lighten up. BTW its funny that this post goes on and on. I look forward to adding to this post always. It keeps me laughing(happy) and its something to DO while we wait for Q1 2005!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
07-30-2004, 11:46 PM
TaskForce1x1, I thank you so very much for expressing my exact feelings. This is the first forum I've spent more than a second reading (most seem to be occupied by 5-yr olds), and I'm not good at expressing myself. But like I have tryed before to explain but not clearly I guess is this little thing almost everyone wants that we refer to as 'REALISM'. To have the option to turn on/off the settings for everything, that would be GREAT.

And no, in real life I would never shoot at a lifeboat, but this is not real life, it's just a game. But to be REALISTIC, you have to be able to do even unsavory things, whether or not you agree with them.

Then how can anybody even think about torpedoing a ship. How many people are you killing with every shot you take? Remember that merchant you got last night? Well, come to find out, it just happened to have a couple hundred women, children, and wounded men on board. Sounds like you should lose command of your ship, your campain should be over, maybe your hard drive should be erased automatically.

Was it wrong to shoot at lifeboats? YES
Did it happen? YES
Did it happen in the Atlantic? YES
Should your morals be IMPOSED on me? NO, NO, NO

One persons Freedom Fighter is anothers Terrorist.

RedTerex
07-31-2004, 12:53 AM
In a way this thread has covered more aspects of SH3 than just lifeboats.
There have been quite a few 'feelings' expressed here that are right at the heart of this sim and that is what its all about. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I have never got uptight about what I have read here, indeed I earlier expressed this when I said that everyone has the right to post anything they like here as long as it doesnt attack/abuse an individual and no-one ever has..we are a good community here, one of the best. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

Yes this thread has gone on for a while, all due to you people putting in valuable input and I hope the DevTeam take note of this particular thread ans summise it in depth as to what we want, Historically, moraly, relistically and polititcaly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

There have been some brilliant analogies/thoughts expressed here by people who are obviously intelligent and knowledgable on all aspects of Sub warefare its morals, its stregths and weaknesses. All of this valuable input makles this forum as interesting as it is. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

There are some regular posters on this forum and these guys in particular have SH3 to heart like myself and who dont stop thinking about SH3 everyday. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Not a day goes by when at some point I think about our intrepid Devteam and I think, I hope they do this, or I hope they do that etc in SH3.

The big day will be on 'chat' day Aug the 4th when that question..oh that question will be put forth "will there be lifeboats in SH3?"
and that answer will come either YES or NO. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

If its NO then thats it..realism, yeah right ! not in my eyes anyway. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

If its YES then realism will take another step forward in SH3, for the better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

And yes indeed, as I have said, look at this wonderful input...make it an option to set in the main menu for Lifeboats...good one Taskforce1x1.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
07-31-2004, 01:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
In a way this thread has covered more aspects of SH3 than just lifeboats.

RedTerex.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree and I like to add that when we think of something new we can share it to everyone and maybe some more can be added. I just played Joint operations and when I was swimming in shallow water your can see plant life. It would be really kewl if they could add seaweed and plant life near shore for more effect. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Long Live this thread.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Redwine
07-31-2004, 07:38 AM
Mmmmhhhhh......

I think so the conversation is taking a side runway.........

Back to the boats..........

As I said before...... add life boats could be a step forward in realism.........

Life boats in a subsim, are exactly the same as parachutes in a flightsim.............

Parachutes are in flight sim from the start up of the times, as phantom parachutes and no morality conflict was happen.........

Even with shootable parachutes as in IL-2...........

Off course I think so, to shoot survivor is not a moral action, and this action was the excepion and NOT the rule in the WW2..........

Phantom life boats can be a good solution.............

I think so, the prsence of life boats can have the inverse effect, they can shows us the fact of to shoot a torp is not a happy success........ may be an exit to hit a ship so far after many minutes of calculations......... but it means the hell for another persons............

I think so may be a contribution to rise up the moral in war games........

Off course we can do nothig for those with an insame mind and waiting to shoot undefese people in life boats............ due to this I think so phantom boats may be the best solution...........

______________________________
.
http://personales.ciudad.com.ar/pietraroja/imagenes/firmas/EscudoU552b.jpg
.
The Ancient History of the Submarine
"Subgenesis" (http://www.iespana.es/Subgenesis/subgenesis/sg00.htm)

Manual TDC
"HTDC Tutorial" (http://www.iespana.es/rotteufel/htdc_tutorial/a_start.htm)
.

hippy-dude
07-31-2004, 07:39 AM
The option will sort everyone out, me and other sick c**** can have the evil satifaction to know that noone suvived from that DD that was tryng to depth charge you, and the less metal people so they can help them with food everyones happy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Peace dude (LOL) i love annoying hippys

TASKFORCE1x1
07-31-2004, 03:09 PM
Redwine , well put! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
07-31-2004, 07:49 PM
Agreed Taskfocre1x1 on the recognition of Redwines post. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It has to be said that Redwine's posts are always of optimum value, due to the guys knowledge on U-Boats and PC Games in general. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

We need more posative input of this calibre to bring this theme home to the DevTeam. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

And only you guys out there can help to do this, not just for me but for all the seriuous gamers out there that woukld love to see this little feature added into the Sim of SH3. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I know that I must seam to be a bore to many of you for my repetative posts on this topic, but I think it will be worth it to add the " icing " to the cake that will be SH3. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Detail and more importantly attention to detail will make SH3 an enjoyable and rewarding SubSim for 100,000's of players. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

respectfully.

RedTerex

[This message was edited by RedTerex on Sat July 31 2004 at 11:20 PM.]

macker33
07-31-2004, 08:52 PM
If you have to give the order abandon ship will you yourself end up in a lifeboat?
Will you be shot on and killed by a nearby destroyer?maybe the destroyer will take you prisioner or a friendly destroyer will rescue you,perhaps you will starve.

At the end of each mission in cfs2 a nice picture would come up showing your fate,e.g.if you got shot down over the jungle and got killed a picture of a crashed plane in a jungle covered in vines would appear with the message"you were killed"
If you bailed out over the sea and were rescued then a picture of you being pulled out of the sea by a sub would appear telling you of your fate.

If you abandon ship in sh3 there could be a similar thing,if you are captured then a picture of you and your crew behind bars could tell you of the "good news",if you are killed by a depth charge then a picture of a uboat being destroyed by a depth charge can tell you of the bad news,that type of thing is always a nice touch in games.

Lastly,if the dev crew(team) do decide to impliment a similar feature then we should be able to substitute our own pictures for the stock ones,this could greatly inhance any future user made campaigns.

hauitsme
08-01-2004, 03:35 AM
Has everyone voted yet? But will it even make a difference?

Last time I looked there were 116 votes taken w/

70% 81 - shootable
19% 22 - non-shootable
4% 4 - none
7% 8 - don't care

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

RedTerex
08-01-2004, 06:41 AM
96% including the 'not fussed' crowd want LifeBoats in SH3.

So far its been a succesful poll with 116 people taking time out to cast their vote. This shows again and again regardless that the community in general aka the HUGE majority want Lifeboats.

This thread has now become a 'must read' for most members of this community. With 166 posts and 2508 views ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

Its like following a serial on the Telly LOL.

regards

RedTerex

Drebbel
08-01-2004, 10:36 AM
And the lifeboat madness goes on and on and on.

Hahaha

Guess people do not realize the dev-team already told us the answer.

The sharp eyed reader already knows if they will be included and if they can be sunk. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

hauitsme
08-01-2004, 03:03 PM
Hopefully Wednesday we'll find out EXACTLY what the game will or will not include. Since we were asked for input to ALL aspects of the game, this subject has taken on a life of its own. To ignore this (the wish for SHOOTABLE lifeboats) I think would be suicidal for them.

But to save themselves from the backlash that will occur, just enable the modding community the tool(an editor)to be able to change/add items to the game to satisfy the VAST majority of users.

Why ask for our input if it's just to be ignored?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

RedTerex
08-01-2004, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:

...Why ask for our input if it's just to be ignored?...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly !

RedTerex

HeibgesU999
08-01-2004, 06:54 PM
I think talking about any "huge backlask" over the lifeboat issue is being a little melodramatic. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

hauitsme
08-01-2004, 07:04 PM
I was only trying to point out that to ask for our input and then to ignore it 'Why believe anything they have to say?' afterwards. Who would trust them again? I'm not saying they have to do everything we ask them to (their not on my payroll), but to ask for suggestions then ignore them would make me ignore them. Once you lose someones trust, it takes quite a lot to earn it back. Nothing nasty was meant by my post, just an observation!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

macker33
08-01-2004, 07:23 PM
the dev team might mean suggestions instead of opinions,
wether you can or cannot shoot lifeboats is a stupid thing to be stupid over,so what if you cant shoot lifeboats?so what.

There are other more important things.Is there anything hugely obvious that they might have missed?like anchors,lifeboats,chains,chain sounds?
I personally think the envoirnment is more important than being able to shoot lifeboats and would be very disappointed if i thought the dev team was wasting their time on damage moddelling lifeboats when they could be figuring out smooth frame rates.

HeibgesU999
08-01-2004, 07:35 PM
I think the fact that they listened to what we had to say about the dynamic campaign, and decided to implement it, gives them huge amounts of credibility.

macker33
08-01-2004, 07:38 PM
They get my vote,i cant wait to get my hands on it,i just know its going to be good,the same as sh2 but better.

hauitsme
08-01-2004, 08:16 PM
I really don't care myself for lifeboats, I'd much rather have some A/C for the Carriers and resupply, but the question was about lifeboats. As for the Dynamic Campaign, that's still to be seen how they mean to do it, and whether or not we'll be able to roam for targets or be limited in mobility.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

RedTerex
08-01-2004, 11:53 PM
The programming of LifeBoats into SH3 will NOT replace any major or minor items from finding their way into it.

Lifeboats would be on the basis of "as well as..."

No time would be wasted modelling Lifeboats over smooth frame rates, better modelling of ships and the sub etc as all of these will be modelled to top spec anyway along with everything else.

Extra time has been granted by Ubi_soft to include many features that frankly were not going to make it into SH3, Lifeboats I hope is going to be one of them.

Periscope depth, ahead standard !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
08-02-2004, 08:26 PM
Lifeboats under tow.

Would be funny to see one of us when its almost dusk and we see a dark silhouetted uboat with a string of tiny lifeboats behind it under tow. (like a mother duck and its ducklings) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

macker33
08-02-2004, 08:32 PM
And then they hit an underwater mine,mines are probably as important as lifeboats.Imagine a major naval base without nets or mines or little boats going about their duties.

RedTerex
08-03-2004, 12:01 AM
Mines are another good feature, if they are included I hope that we also get the 'mined area' charts. Bdu should be able to compile them I would have thought from information received...er..from..U-boats..er..hey wait a minute..no !...shukks..thats US !!
WE will be compiling them and sending them to Bdu.
Sssshhh lets keep quiet about mines !

RedTerex

Pappy55
08-03-2004, 08:29 AM
no its MINE!!! you cant have it lol

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

TASKFORCE1x1
08-03-2004, 10:46 AM
If lifeboats turned fact and we were able to see them after a ship sinks maybe a couple of things could happen that could be bad.

Bad#1-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could just sit there and do nothing for the rest of the game. -Boring http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Bad#2-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat in the middle of the atlantic could catch a good wind and end up in Germany. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Bad#3-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could be haunted. (Different things could happen here; the crew could see a mirage, think their buddy is food, or an extra person is on board but its not part of their crew when they wake up from a daily midnight sleep. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bad#4-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could catch a depth charge that a DD threw in the air with their K-guns and land in their lap ready to time out and explode. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Bad#5-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could be dragged by a anti-torpedo net from an old Dreadnought for miles and miles. (just in case they do have dreadnoughts.)

Bad#6-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could get cought in a waterspout from a windy storm and be put back on the sinking ship they were trying to escape from. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Bad#7-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could be filled all with lawyers. Once saved they will sue our butts when we get back to court. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Bad#8-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifEven though 2 people were saved,if they were male and female then those 2 could become a 4,8,16,24 now in a lifeboat which could be crouded in a hurry.

Bad#9-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat Noah's Arc could see other lifeboats as competition and attempt to fight at sea. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

Bad#10-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe lifeboat could last only a few hours because no one figured that rats and insects like termites would seek salvation from a sinking ship. Unless the crew were all handy with a puddy knife, they dont have a chance with all the holes they would be getting in the hours ahead. The lifeboat crew may get one but can they kill them all? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Bad#11-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifThe atlantic freezes just like everywhere else in cold weather. Would be unfortunate for one of these babys to get stuck in the middle of a freezing ice sheet. Slowly the ice freezes them in...slowwwwwly. Or they all freeze and become ice pops. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Bad#12-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifWho would notice a lifeboat at sea? I wonder how many got runned over from high speed ships?

Bad#13-http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifLighting could hit...and then they're gone. Now u see it now u dont! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

But I still http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif love http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif lifeboats. I promiss to take care of them if you put them in.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

jagtigermk2
08-03-2004, 03:43 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.u-boote-online.de/bilder/sonstige/prisenordnung_1.jpg

Xanthippus
08-03-2004, 05:01 PM
That's the closest i expect we're going to get to seeing a life-boat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RedTerex
08-03-2004, 11:40 PM
Nice pic JAgT !
On closer inspection......
Haha, its the DevTeam ! "Sub Ahoy there !" LOL

Maybe they are testing out the idea before putting it into the Sim. Well done guys !

Also, some devlish ideas there Taskforce1x1 ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

RedTerex

Pappy55
08-04-2004, 07:06 PM
but what u cant see is RedTerex in the AA gun ready to shoot them :P

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

LPV
08-04-2004, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pappy55:
but what u cant see is RedTerex in the AA gun ready to shoot them :P
and I will waiting behind redterex to have my turn at shooting the survivors http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

run slient run deep!

RedTerex
08-05-2004, 12:07 AM
With a Big Spud and a Spud gun, who knows, that lifeboat crew could be in for a bad time ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

Spodge, Phut, splat ! hehe

RedTerex

Pappy55
08-05-2004, 03:14 AM
Hey guys a word on life boats..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/lifeboatcopy.jpg

I think this is what you all want to see.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

RedTerex
08-05-2004, 10:30 AM
ROFL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Good one there pappy55, Sim Lifeboat LOL !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
08-05-2004, 10:43 AM
Pappy55, LOL! Hey look closely to that lifeboat. Doesnt it look kinda flimzey? Looks like its made of cardboard. Cigars were in fashon back then werent they ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Keep on Smiling'

Pappy55
08-05-2004, 03:31 PM
LOL i actually found it on some random site that happened to be about the Titanic, ya gotta love google image search :P

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v329/Pappy55/usig.jpg
"They won't catch us this time! Not this time! They haven't spotted us! No, they're all snoring in their bunks! Or, you know what? They're drinking at the bar, celebrating our sinking! Not yet, my friends. Not yet!"

TASKFORCE1x1
08-05-2004, 08:27 PM
LOL. if we saw lifeboats and we could see the crew faces I think people would next complain about everyone looking the same(AI clones or like the movie MeRobot (or was it IRobot i forget)) LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
08-05-2004, 10:59 PM
Well, I looked at the log of the chat and not a single person asked the most pressing question in this forum. THIS ONE!!!

Unedited Chat (http://www.skyhoppel.de/rob/sh3_chat2.txt)

Can I ask a favor of one of you German speaking members? Just what is the the most predominate questions being asked/talked about on the German site? Are they the same or different than the ones asked here?

Looking at the post, it appeared to last about 90 minutes, with about 40 or so questions asked, but not a single person even mentioned our favorite LITTLE topic! And what about all the other questions this forum has about other things not mentioned? Are we going to have somewhere to have them answered?

And of course, not a mention was made about my most pressing question(Where are the A/C?)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

[This message was edited by hauitsme on Thu August 05 2004 at 10:20 PM.]

RedTerex
08-06-2004, 01:00 AM
Yes indeed it appears to be true that no-one asked about Lifboats.

Its a simple enough add-in to the game, but we have all met with a wall of silence from the DevTeam there and now Silent Hunter means a new thing LOL. Silently Hunting for answers to our question WILL THERE BE LIFEBOATS?

Right I will TRY to post a PM ( private Message) to Ubi_Razz and will then post up his reply on this thread...stay tuned.

RedTerex

negus1
08-06-2004, 01:11 AM
hauitsme: there was no chat in German. German questions were translated to English and you can recognize them by the "DE_Forums".

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

hauitsme
08-06-2004, 01:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by negus1:
hauitsme: there was no chat in German. German questions were translated to English and you can recognize them by the "DE_Forums".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn,t asking about the chat. It was the German Forum I was wondering about.
German Forum (http://ubbxforums-de.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=frm&s=59010161&f=469102863)

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

negus1
08-06-2004, 02:30 AM
sorry! okay here a brief overview:

1. lifeboat discussion, but more sophisticated and camouflaged as "Humanity in WWII".

2. ghost harbours: traffic in harbours

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

TASKFORCE1x1
08-06-2004, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Well, I looked at the log of the chat and not a single person asked the most pressing question in this forum. THIS ONE!!!


Looking at the post, it appeared to last about 90 minutes, with about 40 or so questions asked, but not a single person even mentioned our favorite LITTLE topic! And what about all the other questions this forum has about other things not mentioned? Are we going to have somewhere to have them answered?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


hauitsme, Once the room went +moderated only the devs and ops could talk. Alot of behind the scenes were missed in chat. Here is the questions Ive sent to Thunak from people in this forum that couldnt make it for wednesdays chat- - - &gt;

[[S VIIC_41]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - I'd be interested to know about how exactly damage will be handled in SHIII.Just how many different damage areas will there be in SHIII? Will it be the exact same as SHII or is there going to be more?I was kind of wondering about this after seeing the fusebox in the in-game footage trailer, can that be damaged?

[[RedTerex]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - "Will we have LIFEBOATS ?"

[[sdcruz]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - How will the final sequences play out of us in our sinking and doomed U Boat when we succumed to depth charges?Thanks Shelton.

[[Bertgang]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - How will the final sequences play out of us in our sinking and doomed U Boat when we succumed to sinking u-boat, and all related topic; death in the deep, death on surface, abbandon boat, surrender.

[[Bertgang]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - Well, my last big concern is about navigation system.Will it be free, as it seemed by some post, or will we have the forced system, as planned at the beginning?Free navigation is a must for a dynamic campaign, on my point of wiew.

[[sdcruz]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - Will you be portraying ASDIC searching from destroyers correctly.Thanks Shelton.

[[macker33]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - If someone thinks of it could they ask about being able to circumnavigate the world via the suez and panama canals and maybe throw in a few landmarks along the route,also maybe the caspian and black seas.

[[Silkensus]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - Will it be possible too zoom in and out with the scrol of your mousse(not sure its writen like that)!Can we perhaps also raise periscope with the scroll??It would be verry usefull in having that!

[[Sockeye45]] Our member from ubbxforums.ubi.com couldnt make it to chat but asks - Will a custom keyboard loadout be possible?

I cant prove others sent the same messages privatly but in respect to the forum members that couldnt make chat I did send these. I have no control though over weather or not the devteam would pick up and answer some of these questions. I do know that we could never know how many people did ask the moderator of the chatroom the forever sacred http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif Lifeboat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif question . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

M.Ortega
08-06-2004, 02:24 PM
I voted first. But not gory.
Of course your campaign finish with that action.

Regards

RedTerex
08-06-2004, 04:29 PM
Haha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif, gentlemen lets smile in the face of adversity as the best U-Boat Commanders would.

This Lifeboat topic has grown almost into its own game and Pappy55 was before our time in posting the Lifboat Sim pix LOL (that was funny http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

I have made a private topic with Ubi_razz and so-far he remains as elusive and exclusive as ever bless him !

Lifeboats I feel will at some time enevitably end up in SH but probably by those magnificent chaps over there in SubSim land aka Pacific Aces. And the devteam for P.A ARE Aces themselves. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif Lets not forget their megga achievment with PA.SH2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

I think we will be looking to them, (the few.) to mod this in for us if all else fails.

wearily

RedTerex

negus1
08-07-2004, 12:51 AM
I disagree. If a lifeboat procedure is not implemented in the game engine we have no chance to mod it. I mean we don't want the lifeboats just to appear somewhere after a ship was hit, do we?

"Negus 1 an alle kleinen Br├╝der, wir greifen an! Kameraden, dicht aufschlie├čen zum Sturmangriff! Die Begleitgruppe aufpassen auf Indianer. Wir machen Pauke, Pauke; nur die Ruhe, Kameraden, alles mir nach!"
Maj. Dahl JG 300

RedTerex
08-07-2004, 01:33 AM
I'm clutching at straws , I know !

RedTerex

jagtigermk2
08-07-2004, 07:00 AM
This picture is when the RHEXENOR crew were taken aboard u-217, after being torpedoed and gun fired in the north Atlantic south east of Bermuda (24 59N 43 37W)

The U-boat Captain allowed the wounded to be treated aboard before loading them once more into their lifeboat, but he retained the ship's Fourth Officer Mr. Graham Allen.

http://tinypic.com/1it0n

RedTerex
08-07-2004, 06:24 PM
NICE pic and interesting info there JagT. I'm impressed. That pic looks so dramatic and tells a thousand stories.There is so much sincerity, human emotion and feeling in that single isolate picture.

I hope ALL of you guys can see why I am lobbying so strongly for lifboats in SHÔú.

The feeling, envolvement, trauma, desperaration and other attributes surrounding LifeBoats is second to none in Naval warfare.

It would be an added realism that would help to secure SH3 as the benchmark for ultra realism and emotion that WAS the Atlantic war and beyond in those terrible years.


respectfully

thanks for sharing this with us ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
08-07-2004, 09:28 PM
Lets sign this into law shall we! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Keeping AI sailors alive should give us extra bonus points. Possibilities are endless. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-08-2004, 12:32 AM
Yes, extra points could be rewarded for saving ships crew. good idea.

RedTerex

LPV
08-08-2004, 03:27 AM
But you wouldnt be saving anyone the crew in the lifeboat still have to be rescued. unless the sunken ship was apart of a convoy, trying to find a small group of lifeboats in the wastes of the Altanic would be worse then trying to find a needel in a haystack. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

run slient run deep!

CB..
08-08-2004, 06:50 PM
survivors were somtimes approached to establish the name/details of the ship sunk with some exchange of provisions as incentive ;(i suppose)
so it would be profitable to the u boat to make the effort ....perhaps in the game it self..if (to continue the theme but allow for the limitations of gameplay) you were to approach a life boat and offer assistance the game could randomly award you some intelligence re ship movements , there fore shooting them ( which would i reckon cause far too much loss of morale to be worth it and be the cause of reprimands on returning to port even demotion and transfer / certainly grave disaproval from fellow commanders) would be against the run of the game and could cost you dearly;

they might even be GERMAN/ITALIAN etc...


it could be done adapting the same routines as the "Rescue Downed Pilot" set ups in some other games..?

sea-gulls next?

RedTerex
08-08-2004, 11:49 PM
Sea-Gulls and aquatic life are already under consideration CB ! Cant rememeber where I saw it now, its on the forums somewhere ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Would survivors in LifeBoats actually give out any info to a U-Boot crew ? I know that I wouldnt. But the Idea holds water and could be implemented. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I have noticed that there has been not one remark from any member of the Devteam in this thread ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

This post must kinda stand out a bit I thought what with 208 replies and 3140 views ( this is as many as the thread titled " a letter from Florin" ) but no answers, zilch, zip or nothing ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

We the consumer definatley have the interest in this controversial topic but it is evident that the Devteam do not ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

RedTerex

CB..
08-09-2004, 05:36 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif definitely a big fan of seagulls here..!!!
superb atmospherics with the sight and calls of sea birds, and as they tend to appear as you near coasts an aid to navigation the are much more than just eye ear candy.. so i'm in one that idea...

on the information gathered from survivors...i read in the book "Shooting the War..the memoir and photographs of a U-Boat Officer in World War II"
by Otto Giese

he was allways ordered to question any survivors found regarding their vessel..without fail (as long as it was safe of course) i was surprised aswell wondering the same thing ..surely they'd tell him to " go take a leap" (or similar http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif) but they usually didn't
knowing they were in a pretty dire situation and any help could could well be life or death in the long term...usually it was lone merchants
as he was patroling in the Indian ocean mostly ..

Lets hope they add these little details as they can add a lot to a sim... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

LostGunner
08-09-2004, 09:17 PM
Another possible solution to this life boat thing is IF you come across surviors in a life boat and you shoot them ( or even shooting the life boat trying to sink it ) the game would automaticly "END" right there and no possibilities of restarting that particular game. ( incase you had a save before this shooting ) You would have to grit your teeth, let out a few choice words and start over a new game. That would be quite the discipline, but it might make a better gamer out of you. An allfull lot of gamers that have not been in any actual war for some reason just love to shoot and kill virtual man. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

RedTerex
08-09-2004, 11:40 PM
Interesting pothasis CB, Indeed, dire consequence can play a major part and must not be overlooked...ie...give us some info or you will be left to die, can change 'some' attitudes. granted.

Sea-Gulls adding atmospherics is slightly on par with Lifeboats..in of course the aestetical dep't. let alone their actual "simulation worth"

Budsvilleusa adds another angle even though it has been mentioned before along the lines of...
Shooting lifeboat survivors equals a penalty of some description.
from loss of points/scores
to loss of entire career/game plus saves ?

All good input there guys, all pheasable too.

RedTerex

hauitsme
08-10-2004, 12:07 AM
You people are getting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/353.gif


Hey, if we're gonna have seagulls, how about some GIANT squids? And do we get to see the barnacles on the bottom of our subs/enemy ships? Where's the Kracken? And if you happen to end up in the pacific, how about Godzilla?

This post is supposed to be about LIFEBOATS people!!!!!!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/banghead.gif

If you want to talk about anything other than 'LIFEBOATS', go start another post!

Please? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

RedTerex
08-11-2004, 12:04 AM
The LifeBoat POLL thread it appears is like the place to hang out http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif chew the grit with the guys n chill a while.

Onlooker: Hey ! have you been to Disney Land?
Subguy: No..but I have been to the Lifeboat poll/thread in SH3 forums
Onlooker: WoW !
Subguy: Yeah ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RedTerex

hauitsme
08-11-2004, 12:47 AM
Yah, I know, but it just takes so lllloooonnnngggg to read through all the posts, just to find out there's maybe 1 or 2 out of 10 that are even relevant to the topic.

But to get back to the subject, maybe some of the newest members that have just started posting could put their views down about our favorite 'little' topic? The more, the merrier?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif

CB..
08-11-2004, 02:09 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif now now don't go overboard

hauitsme
08-11-2004, 02:11 AM
I don't dare w/o my LIFEBOAT!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/redface.gif

O'yeh, if you haven't voted yet, go back to the first page of this post and DO IT !

The latest tally is:

129 total votes so far
91 shootable http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/pirate.gif
23 non-shootable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif
05 no boats http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/thumbsdown.gif
10 don't care either way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
08-11-2004, 08:08 AM
If you guys have read Silent Hunters book there was a commander that torpedoed a merchant ship. All the while they were in shallow water. The current started to make their boat drift and soon their bow surfaced because their keel was hitting the sand on the bottom. They were fortunate that the crew of the merchant ship manned their http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif Lifeboats http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif and not their guns as quoted by their green commander on their first war patrol. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-11-2004, 10:42 AM
Im going to quote this guys post again...in here the lifeboat thread..more appropriate...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Xanthippus:
Would be a nice touch, for me its the only issue which makes the lifeboat topic important, i.e. bringing to life the human side of the war rather then just the machines that were involved in it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the few lines that this guy used he said it all "...bringing to life the human side of the war rather then just the machines that were involved in it...."

THAT is primerily what I have been going on about but didnt word it so well.

Its all steel vs steel in SH3 and the human side seams to be inconseqeuential which is slightly off centre. The unfolding battles of the Atlantic were desperate times for all involved and will be desperate times for us too when we imerse ourselves into the Atlantic war..albeit simulated.

How many of us are "just playing a game.." when we are in our virtual world...not me nor you either I'll wager.

Lifeboats will add another dimension to the game, will make it more real, more immersive, more playable and will be an historically accurate inclusion into this Naval scenario.

RedTerex

Kapitanleutnant--Martes86--Mix
08-11-2004, 10:48 AM
Yes, I agree with you, but I won't cry if they don't make it. I think that there are other things more important like being able to see your own people, and be able to walk through the entire sub with no restrictions.

Visit my Das Boot album http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v106/martes86/
http://personales.ya.com/bukanero/banner.jpg

Lead translator and public relations officer for PlanetSHIII.

If you speak Spanish, don't forget to visit the WPL's 24th Flotille: http://www.24flotilla.com/

RedTerex
08-12-2004, 05:37 PM
Walking in the sub, seing crew is being dealt with elsewhere on this forum..this thread is about lifeboats.

2 have or not 2 have lifeboats ? that is the question,
Whether it is nobler in the sea to suffer the pains of torpedoes and mines of outrageous misfortune.
or to take arms against a sea of lifeboats, and by opposing end to them.
To die, to sleep No more and by a sleep to say we end...in a lifeboat
The heartache and the thousand natural lifeboats that flesh is heir to.Tis a consumation devoutly to be wished. to die to sleep.

RedTerex

jmuhlman
08-12-2004, 08:42 PM
I don't want to sound dismisive of anyone, it seems (correct me if I'm wrong) like alot of the people who want life boats that you can shoot at are wanting a first person shooter type violent game and have very little idea of what the real uboat war was like and seem to only know what they've seen in TOTALLY UNREALISTIC MOVIES LIKE U571. the fact is that shooting of people in life boats only happened a grand total of ONCE during all of WWII. and I've never read an account of a boarding party fighting with anyone. the fact is that sailors and merchant seaman on both sides of the conflict treated each other rather well in such situations and even had a sense of comradship with each other.

RedTerex
08-13-2004, 12:17 AM
I have said my last word on the subject and will now discreetly leave this thread alone until I hear a responce from the elusive DevTeam.

Thank you all for your input in this topic, it has been a pleasure for me to read this thread.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

Results (130 votes counted so far):

70%
YES. include life-boats with full realism.
############################################
##########################&lt;70

18%
YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at
##################&lt;18
4%
NO. I dont want them.
####&lt;4
8%
I'm not fussed either way.
########&lt;8


RedTerex

hauitsme
08-13-2004, 01:20 AM
Too bad, so SAD! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/cry.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
08-13-2004, 09:02 AM
Wait! Its not over! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Make this the 225th post to this thread. I seek further pleasure in adding that Lifeboats could be found at sea empty but with some goods in it that would be useful to the crew that might help moral if its a good find. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif A lifeboat could make a great decoy also. Put some flash powder in it and at night when the timer goes off and your sub is far away it would make a huge flash which can make some DD's come over and investigate while our uboat is safely and in position near and ready to attack their convoy. Better yet we could find some people to interrigate on board and find our some convoy details. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
08-17-2004, 12:51 AM
Not that the DevTeam is paying any attention, but if you haven't voted or given your opinion yet, please do.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
08-17-2004, 07:58 AM
In the book SilentHunters there was a captain that sunk a vessel. That ship had some lifeboats. The crews of 35 or so were taken aboard the uboat for questioning as cargo and destination of their ship. The uboat commander wanted to grenade and 20mm the rafts. They wouldnt sink because of foam in the rafts that they werent aware of. For 5 hours they were fussing with the situation of how to get rid of evidence that could be detected by aircraft. They let the crew go but in the water as the rafts were chewed up but still floating. Some of the crew died because of accidents with the grenades from the shrapmetal. This was all unknown to the crew inside of the uboat till the commander told them all what has happened topside.

The crew MORAL was severly lessened because of this act. The effect on the whole ordeal was severly negative. If the lifeboats were put in this sim it could add yet another historical element to this sim.

Later in the chapter of that uboat they torpedoed and sank another ship. That proved to boost moral.

Check it out. Its all in the book Silenthunters.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
08-22-2004, 11:20 PM
Just in case the DevTeam is paying attention, please vote if you haven't.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
08-25-2004, 07:31 AM
They still might give us lifeboats but maybe it will be an easta egg. When a troop ship goes down there would be slowly hundreds suddenly all being lowered into the water and soon we will be surrounded by lifeboats so fast like oil spreads out in water. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

hauitsme
08-25-2004, 05:55 PM
I've changed my mind. No more hoping for lifeboats. And the DevTeam won't have little 'pixel people' drown. How about little 'pixel tomatoes' floating around after sinking a ship? Then if anyone wants to shoot them all you'll have left is watery ketchup! And you can harvest some for some fresh fruit (yes,they are a fruit and not a vegetable) while at sea! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Just hope they're not the dreaded 'Killer Tomatoes'! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
08-26-2004, 12:26 AM
Tomatoes have feeligs as well you know
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif &lt; two tomatoes from the tomatoe appreciation society.

To market, to market with my brother Jim:
When someone threw a tomatoe at him:
Now a tomatoes, alright when its wrapped in its skin:
But this bugger werent, it was wrapped in a tin !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
08-26-2004, 08:37 AM
RedTerex, Excellent. Now we've a use for the red smilies hehe! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Keep on Smiling'

TASKFORCE1x1
08-26-2004, 08:39 AM
We could always go for shipwrecked smurfs in lifeboats. Maybe even if its an easta egg.


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-26-2004, 09:21 AM
It was only when you mentioned lifeboats as a possible 'easter-egg' inclusion Taskforce that I thought "Aaahh..possible, yes possible" and THAT might be the answer. Hence my interest is again revived. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

what with zero response from the Devs, not a word, not a hint just the deff-out on the whole topic of Lifeboats I did kinda realise it was a dead horse being flogged. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

but now there may be a glimmer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

virtual characters have rights, even in war !
"man the lifeboats" and pack them tomatoes in tight ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
08-26-2004, 09:31 AM
Long Live the lifeboats! I will keep on with the lifeboats. Maybe even if I have to remind everyone with the new nick name Lifeboat1x1 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

We all can chip in with the idea. Our names at sea in a multiplayer game could be ---

Das Lifeboat

Planes trains and Lifeboats,
Lifeboat911,
Lifeboat90210,
Lifeboat4ever,
SexintheLifeboat
ItsAwonderfulLifeboat,
Lifeboat-R-us,
BacktotheLifeboat,
MarriedwithLifeboats
Wayne'sLifeboat
LordoftheLifeboats
Indiana Jones and the last Lifeboat
Raiders of the lost Lifeboat
Run Lifeboat Run
Pirates of the Lifeboat
Lethal Lifeboat 1,2,3,4
ET the extra Lifeboat
All my Lifeboats
General Lifeboat
Fantasy Lifeboat
Harry Potter and the Lifeboats
The Incredible Lifeboat
G.I. Lifeboat
Mr. Rogers Lifeboat
Seseme Lifeboat
Deep Lifeboat
The Perfect Lifeboat
Knight Lifeboat (with David Hastlehoff)
Its a Lifeboat Charlie Brown
Enemy at the Lifeboat
Big Trouble in little Lifeboat
Pulp Lifeboat
Jackie Chans First Lifeboat
Once upon a Lifeboat
Rumble in the Lifeboat
Lara Croft: The Cradle of Lifeboat
Band of Lifeboats
We Were Lifeboats
Curage Under Lifeboat
Force 10 from Lifeboat
Tears of the Lifeboat
Passion of Lifeboat
Rambo-First Lifeboat
Hell in the Lifeboat
Broken Lifeboat
Flight of the Lifeboat
Collateral Lifeboat
Hogan's Lifeboats
McHales Lifeboat
Dances with Lifeboats
Bill and Teds Excellent Lifeboat
Sponge Bob-no pants -no lifeboat



http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

[This message was edited by TASKFORCE1x1 on Thu August 26 2004 at 09:02 AM.]

LostGunner
08-26-2004, 03:28 PM
AS Charlie Brown would have said:

Good Grief http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
08-26-2004, 04:04 PM
I used to be apart of that Flotilla Grief http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-26-2004, 04:45 PM
'Bill and Teds excellent lifeboat' has to be the funniest from that list LOL. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Good stuff there Strikeforce, roflmao.
how do you follow that lot ! lol

except for the obvious one, the one thats been missed....and here it is...

SILENT LIFEBOAT

yeeess waheeyyy ! LOL

RedTerex

hauitsme
08-26-2004, 11:16 PM
Some more:

An American Lifeboat in London
One Flew Over The Lifeboat Nest
Gangs Of New Lifeboat
Natural Born Lifeboats
Saving Private Lifeboat
Full Metal Lifeboat
Debbie Does Lifeboats
Monty Python And The Holy Lifeboat
Monty Python's The Meaning Of Lifeboat
Fast Lifeboat At Ridgemont High
The Sound Of Lifeboat
2001, A Space Lifeboat
Lifeboat's Of The Carribean
Lord Of The Lifeboats
Schindler's Lifeboat
Jurassic Lifeboat
The Bourne Lifeboat

And of course everyone's fav: Das Lifeboote

If the DevTeam won't give em to us, we'll make our own!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/CapSmile.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/beatnik.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/KillerTomato-2.jpg

RedTerex
08-27-2004, 12:20 AM
LOL ok, ok, good ones there, good ones.
'Das lifeboot' being my favourite out of that list. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

sense of humour reign supremo. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Here are my humble offerings( what have you started Strikeforce LOL !)

The lifeboat connection
Terminator 2 Lifeboat day
Chitty Chitty Lifeboat
Snow White and the seven Lifeboats
Indecent lifeboat
Patriot Lifeboats
The Blair Lifeboat project
Kellys Lifeboats
The sound of Lifeboats
Matrix Lifeboats Manned
Demetrius and the Lifeboats
Independance Lifeboat
The day after Lifeboat

RedTerex

Shan_Hackett
08-27-2004, 03:28 AM
very cool. Here's some of mine... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif


Attack of the killer Lifeboats.
Lifeboats from mars.
Dead Lifeboat.
Superlifeboat.
Spiderlifeboat.
The Lifeboat thing.
The Lifeboat below.
Mission Lifeboat.
Ferris Brewlers Day Lifeboat.
The whole Nine Lifeboats.
Star-Lifeboat.
The Empire Lifeboats back.
Return Of The Lifeboat.
Planet Of The Lifeboats.
Lifeboat 13.
Lost In Lifeboat.
Buffy The Lifeboat Slayer.
20,000 Leagues Under The Lifeboat.
Journey To The Centre Of The Lifeboat.
Scary Lifeboat.
The Perfect Lifeboat.
The Good, The Bad, and The Lifeboat.
The X Lifeboats.
The 39 Lifeboats.
Room With A Lifeboat.
The last Lifeboat.
The Shawshank Lifeboat.
Judge Lifeboat.
What Lifeboats want.
Mrs Lifeboat.
DamLifeboats.

TASKFORCE1x1
08-27-2004, 07:57 AM
Hahhaha This is great! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-27-2004, 09:22 AM
LOL, good ones there Shan,

Heres another one, with a clue

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif The lifeboat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

cool eh, trust me to do the obvious one !

RedTerex

TASKFORCE1x1
08-27-2004, 11:21 AM
National Lampoons Lifeboat Vacation

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Keep on Smiling'

SailorSteve
08-27-2004, 11:55 AM
WOW! There are so many, pardon me if I repeat some:

2001 Lifeboats
Revenge of the Lifeboats
Hill Street Lifeboats
The Six Lifeboats of Henry VIII
Lifeboats 11
Catch 22 Lifeboats
The Lifeboats of Navaronne (I saw the sequel, but not the original)
Lifeboats! Lifeboats! Lifeboats!
Monty Python and the Holy Lifeboats
The Lifeboats of Brian
The Meaning of Lifeboats
Trading Lifeboats
A Lifeboat called Wanda
Support Your Local Lifeboat
The Odd Lifeboats
The Pink Lifeboat
A Shot In The Lifeboat
The Longest Lifeboat
A Lifeboat Too Far
Bram Stoker's Lifeboat

And I can't believe no one has mentioned:

Silent Lifeboat III

______________________________

The poster said "Join The Navy, See The World". So I did, and I'm here to tell you, the world is flat and blue.

hippy-dude
08-27-2004, 11:59 AM
13 lifeboats
harry potter and the chamber of lifeboats

I would do more but im rather busy

TASKFORCE1x1
08-27-2004, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Silent Lifeboat III <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL thats a good one heheh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Keep on Smiling'

RedTerex
08-27-2004, 05:28 PM
Sorry SailorSteve 'Silent Lifeboat' HAS alread been mentioned by me. LOL but as a consilation your " A Lifeboat Too Far' is both funny and er rather true as well! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

'Aces of the Lifeboats' anyone ?

RedTerex