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hauitsme
03-08-2005, 07:30 PM
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE <span class="ev_code_yellow">READ</span> from the beginning to become informed. Vote your choice on the first page, either before or after reading through the thread. Come back and post your thoughts.

My post above quoted what he saw in the game. When he posted that, instantly, I wondered: Are those modelled in any way? Can they be manipulated in any way? If so, that saves some work for a mod. You can 'guarantee' there will be a mod to include them.

But questions still need to be asked and answered. Got any?

LostGunner
03-08-2005, 07:56 PM
This Lifeboat Thread is haunted I tell ya, it's haunted. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Move over UBI/SH3 there will be lifeboats http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Muwaaahhhaaaaa.

Ok I'm done, now you sane people can take over. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

RedTerex
03-09-2005, 08:08 AM
Is this thread realy nine months old !

And it still keeps cropping back up again LOL.
Its like the proverbial 'bad' penny that one keeps finding in their change.

This thread covered ALL aspects of Lifeboats and one has merely to peruse the 26 or so pages for the full sp on it all.

The controversy continues........

TASKFORCE1x1
03-09-2005, 08:17 AM
I think lifeboats are in the recognition manual arn't they? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif We will see if they have lifeboats soon!

TASKFORCE1x1
03-09-2005, 08:21 AM
Lifeboat Museum (http://www.portorfordlifeboatstation.org/)

RedTerex
03-09-2005, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TASKFORCE1x1:
I think lifeboats are in the recognition manual arn't they? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif We will see if they have lifeboats soon! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah..LOL..." this is a lifeboat, look at it, recognise it Do NOT blow it up ! "
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/RedTerex/angrynono.gif

hauitsme
03-28-2005, 03:48 AM
This topic sleeps, but never dies. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif

Lifeboats ARE already modelled in the game. They've been seen flying through the air after a torp hit, along with the men on deck(see previous page for the post). In fact, read all the posts.

What are your thoughts? What's your vote?

Should they be modded into the game? What features should be included? Excluded?

Wallstein
03-28-2005, 04:20 AM
Lifeboat or not, I`d like to have possibility to abandon ship and at least try to save the lives of men onboard. It would not matter wether to become a POW or not. The idea of possibility to leave the ship is something I miss.

Why bother to blow ballast if you die anyhow? If we don´t get lifeboat, give us at least life jacket instead http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wallstein

Pappy55
03-28-2005, 04:27 AM
Ok this seams a little weird to me..

I understand the devs reasons for not having lifeboats in the water for morality reasaons but doesent seeing men fly through the air into water seam a little more sick?

I am sure they could put them in somhow and make it so when you aim at one it wont fire. because in the notepad it would say lifeboat and they could code it so the weapons guy just sais cant do that sir or somthing if some sick indervidual tried to open fire.

Just a thought...

I agree with Wallstein here,
we need an option to abandon ship or the emergency surface is pointless. If you are close to a home base you have a good chance of survival.

lovecraft1969
03-28-2005, 04:41 AM
My idea was that they could have lifeboats but make them invincible so they cannot be shot or damage anything else. I believe they put men on the warships because it would look silly without them and since they can shoot its a kill or be killed scenario where self defense comes into play. If they were to model crew on the cargo ships and we could see them being blown off the ship from explosions then it turns into a simple case of murdering unarmed non-combatants.

kag9000
03-28-2005, 05:37 AM
I would not like to see this ingame, I think the dev team have the balance about right.

Due to personal family history this would be a little to close to realism than I would like.

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kag9000:
I would not like to see this ingame, I think the dev team have the balance about right.

Due to personal family history this would be a little to close to realism than I would like. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm. Yet in all other ways, torpedoing ships doesn't bother you?

RedTerex
03-28-2005, 06:41 AM
Not wanting to sound like a ****** in any way I noticed that when you man the flak gun...if you turn and point it at a guy in the bridge it wont fire.

RedTerex you are a ******, how would you have fount this out?

well I was firing at an Elco PT boat that was diving in and out and noticed that my gun didnt fire when pointed in the area of da bridge.

Well could they have implemeted this "safe fire" for a Lifeboat as well???????

*shakes head and goes for a lie down in a dark room*

RedTerex
03-28-2005, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kag9000:
I would not like to see this ingame, I think the dev team have the balance about right.

Due to personal family history this would be a little to close to realism than I would like. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm. Yet in all other ways, torpedoing ships doesn't bother you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
rofl

SovietSpetsnaz
03-28-2005, 07:54 AM
Life-boats won't be included, even if you post a hundred polls.

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SovietSpetsnaz:
Life-boats won't be included, even if you post a hundred polls. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't be so sure. Those crates that float after a sinking could be modified to look just like lifeboats. It wouldn't be all that hard. You could modify the crate textures and the 3D models, then it's just a matter of making the crates stay afloat longer, which should be easy.

kag9000
03-28-2005, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hmm. Yet in all other ways, torpedoing ships doesn't bother you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you dont appreciate the difference between the two, that is: an act of war - torpedoing a ship, as opposed to a war crime -opening up with a flak/machine gun on the sailors in the waterthen there is no point arguing with you about it.

Dominicrigg
03-28-2005, 10:18 AM
Hey hello lifeboat thread!! This thing is like a boat filled with cork.

On a related side, i blew up a ship (cant remember which) and the lifeboats flew off into the water. So the models are already there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif im sure some brainiac could make them stay level and stay there for 10 minutes or so. Though putting guys in them would be harder.

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kag9000:
[QUOTE]Well if you dont appreciate the difference between the two, that is: an act of war - torpedoing a ship, as opposed to a war crime -opening up with a flak/machine gun on the sailors in the waterthen there is no point arguing with you about it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just don't see how the difference affects those who get killed, or those who knew them. Dead is dead, whether the killing was done 'honourably' or otherwise.

Anyway, who said anything about allowing the lifeboats in the game to be destructible? If they get in, they won't respond to gunfire. The point of this thread is to talk about including lifeboats, not to talk about shooting them.

kag9000
03-28-2005, 10:32 AM
Ah I see, well I would not have a problem with that - what I do object to is the ability for people to shoot and kill survivors, as requested on some previous posts

Indianer.
03-28-2005, 10:36 AM
i think the u boat crew should get lifejackets before anything else.

not being able to abandon ship seems pretty silly to me. why are we able to blow ballast and not be able to leave the sub once we are on the surface.

seems to me this is one of many important "missing" pieces to this great game.

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kag9000:
Ah I see, well I would not have a problem with that - what I do object to is the ability for people to shoot and kill survivors, as requested on some previous posts <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those people are arcade nuts. You can't expect arcade types to treat an historical simulation with respect. Those folks are nutcases - they like to shoot stuff, period. It might not be wise to allow yourself to get upset by the ravings of such people. This is a simulation, not an arcade game, and what captain in his right mind would kill survivors?

HeibgesU999
03-28-2005, 11:08 AM
How many life boats would there be per ship?

How long should the lifeboats last before they degenerate?

In a mulitiplayer game, if 3 uboats each sank 3 ships, and this created a net gain of 24 objects for the game to track what would be the effects on framerate and stability?

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
In a mulitiplayer game, if 3 uboats each sank 3 ships, and this created a net gain of 24 objects for the game to track what would be the effects on framerate and stability? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see any need to introduce new objects. Just convert the cargo boxes that already exist in the game to lifeboats and have them last longer, and stop them from sinking. No framerate issues beyond what we have now (unless you experience slowdowns when the boxes appear, and that's unlikely unless you see serious framerate problems when an explosion happens).

Just have as many lifeboats as there are cargo boxes (note: even the game's warships drop cargo boxes) and keep them around for 10 minutes or so - long enough so that you leave before their disappearance.

missouridrifter
03-28-2005, 12:01 PM
Lifeboats and people in the water swimming... if you get close to look at the carnage you will face what many sub captains faced... leaving them behind or showing mercey and shooting them (if no lifeboats) as you can take no prisoners.. no room in boat and those were your orders.

Thats why most Caps. just watched from the scope from a distance and where the crew couldn't see.. who wants to face that delima?

The crew was happy just listening to the other ship's back break, creaks and moans of twisting, exploding metal.

That's my spin anyway but yeah, lifeboats would be interesting.

AStotzer
03-28-2005, 12:04 PM
I don't care either way. There are other things that I think are more important.

hauitsme
03-28-2005, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Beeryus:
Those crates that float after a sinking could be modified to look just like lifeboats. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I suggested this July 30 2004(pg7). But can it be done?
Can the Lifeboats that are already included as explosion debris be manipulated?

Voting Results (316 votes counted as of March 28 2005 13:56):
200 (63%) YES. include life-boats with full realism.
51 (16%) YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at
29 (9%) NO. I dont want them.
36 (11%) I'm not fussed either way.

Vote and post your opinions.

Chuck_Older
03-28-2005, 03:30 PM
I haven't read all 27 pages. I'd be amazed if anyone read this post


But I have the answer. Simple, really.

have a 'lifeboat patch' on the SHIII website. If you d/l it, you must indicate that you are over 18 years old before downloading. If somebody under 18 d/ls...well, then they lied, Ubi isn't responsible, and we can all go on our happy way

The lifeboat should also be a toggle: "lifeboats on/off"

Banquet
03-28-2005, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by missouridrifter:
Lifeboats and people in the water swimming... if you get close to look at the carnage you will face what many sub captains faced... leaving them behind or showing mercey and shooting them (if no lifeboats) as you can take no prisoners.. no room in boat and those were your orders.

Thats why most Caps. just watched from the scope from a distance and where the crew couldn't see.. who wants to face that delima?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno either way, but when I read things like that I'm inclined to say no thanks.

I haven't read through this entire thread either but I have to wonder what's to be gained by showing lifeboats? You couldn't animate it to look right without it being the sort of resource hog that would kill the game's frame rate.

It seems that some people don't have an historical grasp of what the real situation with U boats and survivors was. I don't think any feature should be added to SHIII that gives people the excuse to gun people down on the pretence they're doing something realistic. Not in a sim as true as SHIII which, as well as being a very entertaining and immersive sim is also, in it's way, a mark of respect to those that sailed in those times.

The ONLY point I can see for doing it would be to establish the name of the ship - something which was due to be included in the radio intercept, but didn't make it into the game.

Other historical reasons (including giving of food, drinks and directions to land) are completely out of the game's scope - we don't even have food on our sub.

marauderiv
03-28-2005, 04:48 PM
Life boat as realism??? There are many other more important things like U-boat sinking video sequence that should be modeled before life boats!! What are we gonna do with survivors? We can't take them in and we can't kill them. If there's nothing we can do about them, then what's the point to spend valuable computer's RAM for them???? Life boat's presence doesn't concern U-boat sim, it's an issue for Destroyer escort sim. It's escort's job to worry about life boats.

For those who want ultimate realism, maybe we should model toilet in U-boat and make food supply management part of game. Those are more important and relevant to U-boat crews than lifeboats. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

TASKFORCE1x1
03-28-2005, 04:57 PM
Ittssssss backkkkkk!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Lifeboat poll

hauitsme
03-28-2005, 05:03 PM
The DevTeam said THEMSELVES that Lifeboats in the game would make it more 'realistic'!

From what you said, you apparently have no idea what anyone has said on this subject. Read it and learn.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Life boat as realism??? There are many other more important things like U-boat sinking video sequence... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since when has being able to 'see' your own DEATH been realistic?

LostGunner
03-28-2005, 05:47 PM
Well I think its a pretty simple process. If the lifeboats and crew to put into them can be made a mod and said lifeboats and crew cannot be fired at then I say make the mod and those whom do not want the lifeboats Don't Download then everyone should be happy.

hauitsme
03-28-2005, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LostGunner:
Well I think its a pretty simple process. If the lifeboats and crew to put into them can be made a mod and said lifeboats and crew cannot be fired at then I say make the mod and those whom do not want the lifeboats _Don't Download_ then everyone should be happy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How would that make 'everyone' happy?

Why not make them 'shootable', d/l the mod, and still not shoot at them?

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 06:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marauderiv:
Life boat as realism??? There are many other more important things like U-boat sinking video sequence that should be modeled before life boats!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's your opinion, but unless you're the one who decides what mods get made, it doesn't count for much. The mod makers will make up their own minds about what's important. Anyway, it's not really a case of what's important. What gets done is what's easiest to do.

LostGunner
03-28-2005, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How would that make 'everyone' happy?

Why not make them 'shootable', d/l the mod, and still not shoot at them?[/QUOTE]

Of all people on this Lifeboat thread I would have thought you did not want to kill survivors in lifeboats, seems like your suggesting that if you could d/l the mod if it was shootable you'd d/l it, shoot them up and no one would know the difference.( on the forums I mean for I'm sure you would't say <span class="ev_code_RED">now would you ?</span>)

What a nice guy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif


There are people with the Sim who have braged about shooting their own German Merchants and also Neutral merchants and a United States Passenger ship ( now thats sick), so go ahead be like them for its no skin off my nose and make a lifeboat mod that is shootable, guess I was just trying to do like the Devs did by not letting you shoot your own crew ( on the bridge ). Oh believe me if you could shoot your own crew on the bridge a lot of sickos would have allready done it.

So I quit suggesting for it seems to do no good but if someone does develope a lifeboat mod, weather it's shootable or not I'll d/l it and enjoy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BobV_07
03-28-2005, 06:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Lets try to clear this up and go for the vote for once and for all on the issue of having life-boats included in SH3.

RedTerex <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


32 people dont want life boats? Crazy! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0037/0046.jpg

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 06:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostGunner:
...those whom do not want the lifeboats _Don't Download_ then everyone should be happy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup. Hehe, it always strikes me as incredible that people rail at prospective mods that no one ever asked them to approve and that no one's forcing them to use.

I mean anyone would think that: 1 - Marauderiv was the 'mod emperor', with power over every mod-maker and every mod; and 2 - that these mods were being forced down everyone's throat.

The funny thing is, folks like Marauderiv are the least likely to ever make a mod (so it's not like they'll have any say in the process), and they're the people most likely to be spamming the forums in 3 months time asking where they can download the life boat mod.

Triggertime798
03-28-2005, 06:48 PM
I am all for lifeboats, but make it an option for those who want them but dont want to go 100% realism. And then those who dont want them, dont have to. And make it so that if you shoot the lifeboat, it has a negative effect on you in the end somehow.

TeAcH
03-28-2005, 06:51 PM
Its immoral (according to the devs) for there to be lifeboats in this game because we might shoot them but we can torpedo all ships including liners without being able to give the crew or passengers the ability to escape via shots across the bow. Many Uboat captains allowed the passengers to leave and some even towed the lifeboats toward shore using their Uboats.

Just add them and make it a severe renown penalty to fire on them and a minor increase if you save them or tow them close to shore.

marauderiv
03-28-2005, 07:01 PM
Beeryus, I'm not against people making mod for lifeboats, but I'm dead against asking dev. team to include lifeboats in their patch. What are we gonna to do with life boats? What function do they serve? There's a balance between playability and realism here. Remember everytime you put something unnecessarily there the frame rate goes down. You are excluding more people, especially those people with low end machines, from enjoying this otherwise great sim. So I agree with people who want lifeboats more an option to choose from. And again exactly what are we going to do with lifeboats? We can't even decide their purpose on this thread. Like I said in my previous post, it's not U-boat's job to worry about lifeboats. They're nice to look at, and that's it. Don't tell me you're going to tow them to destroyers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Willey
03-28-2005, 07:06 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

BoneDaddy1844
03-28-2005, 07:12 PM
Bring on the lifeboats and their hapless passengers!

It's ugly, but it happened. If the devs want realism, don't stop now...

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 07:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marauderiv:
Beeryus, I'm not against people making mod for lifeboats, but I'm dead against asking dev. team to include lifeboats in their patch. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did anyone (post release) ask for that? Let me make it clear for everyone who may be new to the forums - the developers have already said that they WILL NOT ADD LIFEBOATS INTO THE GAME.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What are we gonna to do with life boats? What function do they serve? There's a balance between playability and realism here. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But that's not going to matter to those who want to make a lifeboat mod or those who want to use one (and look at the poll - the vast majority of players who expressed a preference said they wanted lifeboats). You may think that there's a balance between realism and playability (I disagree), but your opinion on the matter is irrelevant unless you're in a position to stop the mod being made.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Remember everytime you put something unnecessarily there the frame rate goes down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a big assumption, especially considering that we've already figured out a way to do it without affecting the framerates.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You are excluding more people, especially those people with low end machines, from enjoying this otherwise great sim. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Somehow I get the impression that you think this is going to be an official patch. That was a hope prior to release, but it is not the case now. I can assure you with almost 100% certainty that the developers won't have anything to do with lifeboats - and even if they did, there's no reason that lifeboats can't be included without affecting anyone's framerates. Heck, if I had the tools, I could add them and IMPROVE framerates. Anyway, given the fact that no official patch will inclyude lifeboats, no one is preventing anyone from playing the game, because no one will ever force another player to use an unofficial mod.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So I agree with people who want lifeboats more an option to choose from. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no chance that it will be anything but an option.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And again exactly what are we going to do with lifeboats? We can't even decide their purpose on this thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They will exist there as eye candy. That's their purpose. That purpose (pretty graphics) has kept computer games going for the past 10 years, so I don't see why we shouldn't use that as a valid reason.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Like I said in my previous post, it's not U-boat's job to worry about lifeboats. They're nice to look at, and that's it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aha, so you already know their purpose.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Don't tell me you're going to tow them to destroyers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look back in this thread and you'll see that I came out against lifeboats as an official feature ages ago. I said that I didn't see the point because we would never even get close enough to see them. But that was when this was being discussed as a potential official feature. That's no longer the case. Lifeboats are going to be made as an unofficial mod. There's nothing you can do about it, and why would you want to? No one will force you to use the mod so it won't affect you or anyone else who doesn't want to use it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If adding lifeboat doesn't hurt frame rate and computer performance, I'll be for it. But can anyone guarantee that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can absolutely guarantee that. There is absolutely no reason why lifeboats can't be added without hurting computer performance. I guarantee that it can be done with an improvement in performance. It's not difficult.

subnuts
03-28-2005, 07:40 PM
I suppose they should also add the ability to sink your u-boat if the toilet is flushed improperly; after all, it happened about as often as u-boats killing survivors in the water. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

gonzie2005
03-28-2005, 07:45 PM
I struggle to consider a more pointless and un neccecary feature to be added into this game at ANY realism level.

Beeryus
03-28-2005, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonzie2005:
I struggle to consider a more pointless and un neccecary feature to be added into this game at ANY realism level. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, people said that about realistic medals in Red Baron 3D, but I added them and the mod was downloaded hundreds of times. They said it about the fix that I made that added three two-seater planes into the game, and that mod got downloaded hundreds of times. They told me that making a 20MB patch for Red Baron 3D was a waste because they preferred the game as it was, yet many people on this forum remember the mods I made for Red Baron because they used them. People also remember the mod I made for B-17 II, the one for Battleground Waterloo, and for other games. In fact, almost every mod I ever made was railed against by people who said 'What's the point?', yet I had so many downloads of my mods that at one point my server porn filter kicked in - my server thought I must be distributing porn, so my account was temporarily shut down until they got tens or perhaps even hundreds of people calling the server folks up and explaining the situation so that they could get at the mods.

The simple fact is, mods are popular - it doesn't matter how useless some people may think they are, for every one of those people, there are a hundred who are only too willing to install such mods. You may as well try to stop the sun rising in the morning, as try to stop 'useless' mods from being made.

Besides, no one's asking you to use it. If I make the mod (not that I have plans to do so, but I am making other mods), I simply won't offer it to you. It will be out there, but all you have to do is not download it - it's never going to appear on your hard drive unless you demand it. I think you probably have the willpower to avoid downloading it, even if you don't.

Again, it never ceases to amaze me that people will complain about stuff that they have no interest in, and that won't impact them in the least if they would only stop going on about it.

Finally, why should any mod-maker care what you think? What earthly difference will your opinion make to any mod-maker who wants to put lifeboats into the game? If he wants to do it, and if he can do it, he'll do it. Right now I'm working on a mod to make medal awards in the game more realistic. There could be an army of folks on the forums telling me how useless it would be to make such a mod, but if you think I'd give a flying f*** what other people think I should be doing with my spare time, you've got another think coming.

BoneDaddy1844
03-28-2005, 08:18 PM
Well said, Beeryus.

If you want to make it, then do it. If people don't like it, they don't have to install it.

'Nuff said.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

LostGunner
03-28-2005, 09:10 PM
All Right Beeryus, way to go.

A couple of these guys are probably wishing they had lifeboats right about now with the torps you've been sending them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Bottom line we want lifeboats http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TeAcH
03-28-2005, 09:54 PM
Yea Beeryus!!

If you build it..they WILL come!

Look, Im ALL for lifeboats. Why? Because I want it to add to the challenging of cargo ships with my deck gun like Uboat captains did. You know, fire a few warning shots, watch the crew paddle away, then sink it. It was VERY common.

There were only a scant few uboat captains who were barbaric. Most were very decent to other sailors. In fact, on Das Boot, if you recall, the sub crew wept and were outraged when they put finishing torps into a lone burning cargo ship to find crew still aboard..jumping off on fire and such.

Lifeboats are a must...to add historical accuracy but most of all, IMHO, immersion.

In fact, I read that a uboat captain who was towing some lifeboats to shore, cut them loose once a destroyer neared. That destroyer scooped up the lifeboats and the sub left the area.

As it is now, we have to blow a ship to bits without being able to let them escape.

LONG LIVE THE MODDERS!!!!!!

hauitsme
03-28-2005, 11:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LostGunner:
Of all people on this Lifeboat thread I would have thought you did not want to kill survivors in lifeboats, seems like your suggesting that if you could d/l the mod if it was shootable you'd d/l it, shoot them up and no one would know the difference.( on the forums I mean for I'm sure you would't say <span class="ev_code_RED">now would you ?</span>)
What a nice guy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I stated my position here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=857101043&m=102109705&p=7), along with taking prisoners and the possibility of modding the debris into Lifeboats.
Nothing has changed since then.

I'm not suggesting anything like you said. Read the quote and the reply again.
You - ..'lifeboats and crew cannot be fired at then I say make the mod and those whom do not want the lifeboats _Don't Download_ then everyone should be happy'
Me - 'How would that make 'everyone' happy? Why not make them 'shootable', d/l the mod, and still not shoot at them?'

'Everyone' cannot be happy if Lifeboats are not shootable. They HAVE to be. No-one forces you to shoot them. Nor me. But we CAN if we choose.
Some don't want them shootable. I do. That doesn't mean I will.
But I SHOULD be able to. So should you. Everyone should..
If it was possible, it should be available to do.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people with the Sim who have braged about shooting their own German Merchants and also Neutral merchants and a United States Passenger ship ( now _thats sick_) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another moral issue(or bad eyesight). But their morals are not mine. Nor yours I see.
The game does impose some though, giving a penalty.
I definitely am thrilled we CAN shoot ANY ship. Friendly-fire, accidents, and purposefully shooting your own or neutral ships is REAL.
As it should be.
If it was possible, it should be available to do.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...guess I was just trying to do like the Devs did by not letting you shoot your own crew ( on the bridge ). Oh believe me if you could shoot your own crew on the bridge a lot of sickos would have allready done it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There's a discussion about that somewhere, but it was about the Deck and Flak guns firing arc.(can they hit the bridge?)
If it was possible, it should be available to do.
As it should be.

Do you see the pattern of my thoughts?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sailor.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So I quit suggesting for it seems to do no good but if someone does develope a lifeboat mod, weather it's shootable or not I'll d/l it and enjoy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So will I (d/l the mod, but I won't quit suggesting/wanting something REAL). Whether I'll enjoy it is another thing(if it's NOT real: shootable).

If it was possible, it should be available to do.
And keep the morals of it OUT.
I don't want morals FORCED on me.
Do you want them FORCED on you?

Iridium_Layer
03-29-2005, 12:05 AM
Lifeboats would add immense eye candy to this game, even as gorgeous as it is already is. It would also add to situational awareness, by leaving a trail of "debris" (the lifeboats) which, as in real life, would add some assistance with spacial awareness (being more aware of the layout of the battlefield).

For those who decry the "moral" aspects of the game with the inclusion of lifeboats, have you forgotten that a ship sunk without any lifeboats left behind basically means a total and complete loss of all lives aboard anyway? Are we to think that they are all trapped inside and drowning within the hull? I doubt that many would waste too much ammunition, as scarce as it is in a sub, on plinking teeny tiny lifeboats out of the water...with virtually no tonnage benefit. I am sure everyone of us will at one time or another fling one or two shots their way, just to see what happens...but is that REALLY any different from sinking a ship?!?! (big boat, little boat, it is all the same). Perhaps including a loss of renoun for shooting them would be deterrent enough to prevent any abuse.

Consider for a moment the existance of parachutes in flight simulators such as IL-2 or Pacific fighters. The absence of a parachute immediately indicates that you must have killed the pilot. To see a parachute open can actually relieve some players of that moral dispair http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif , and it is only the occasional player who takes pride or joy in shooting down the parachutes.

I think that this is a worthy and deserving mod. I would ideally like to see what was previously suggested, and have some merchants launch lifeboats and abandon ship after a first shot, thus leaving an empty target to easily sink without total loss of life. Oil slicks would be awesome too, as would any persistant debris... but at the very least, I feel that a lifeboat mod would only improve what is already an instant classic!

Beeryus
03-29-2005, 12:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Iridium_Layer:
Oil slicks would be awesome too... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oil slicks are already featured in the game. I think you can even make them last longer by editing their entry in the zones.cfg file.

hauitsme
03-29-2005, 02:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>subnuts:
I suppose they should also add the ability to sink your u-boat if the toilet is flushed improperly; after all, it happened about as often as u-boats killing survivors in the water. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'd d/l that mod.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/drown.gif I want MK-24 FIDO (http://www.uboat.net/allies/technical/fido.htm) Torps also. And ....
And ....
If it was possible, it should be available to do. Dieing in uncontrollable ways too.

LostGunner
03-29-2005, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LostGunner:
Of all people on this Lifeboat thread I would have thought you did not want to kill survivors in lifeboats, seems like your suggesting that if you could d/l the mod if it was shootable you'd d/l it, shoot them up and no one would know the difference.( on the forums I mean for I'm sure you would't say <span class="ev_code_RED">now would you ?</span>)
What a nice guy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I stated my position http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=857101043&m=102109705&p=7, along with taking prisoners and the possibility of modding the debris into Lifeboats.
Nothing has changed since then.

I'm not suggesting anything like you said. Read the quote and the reply again.
You - ..'lifeboats and crew cannot be fired at then I say make the mod and those whom do not want the lifeboats _Don't Download_ then everyone should be happy'
Me - 'How would that make 'everyone' happy? Why not make them 'shootable', d/l the mod, and still not shoot at them?'

'Everyone' cannot be happy if Lifeboats are not shootable. They HAVE to be. No-one forces you to shoot them. Nor me. But we CAN if we choose.
Some don't want them shootable. I do. That doesn't mean I will.
But I SHOULD be able to. So should you. Everyone should..
If it was possible, it should be available to do.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>There are people with the Sim who have braged about shooting their own German Merchants and also Neutral merchants and a United States Passenger ship ( now _thats sick_) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another moral issue(or bad eyesight). But their morals are not mine. Nor yours I see.
The game does impose some though, giving a penalty.
I definitely am thrilled we CAN shoot ANY ship. Friendly-fire, accidents, and purposefully shooting your own or neutral ships is REAL.
As it should be.
If it was possible, it should be available to do.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...guess I was just trying to do like the Devs did by not letting you shoot your own crew ( on the bridge ). Oh believe me if you could shoot your own crew on the bridge a lot of sickos would have allready done it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There's a discussion about that somewhere, but it was about the Deck and Flak guns firing arc.(can they hit the bridge?)
If it was possible, it should be available to do.
As it should be.

Do you see the pattern of my thoughts?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/sailor.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So I quit suggesting for it seems to do no good but if someone does develope a lifeboat mod, weather it's shootable or not I'll d/l it and enjoy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So will I (d/l the mod, but I won't quit suggesting/wanting something REAL). Whether I'll enjoy it is another thing(if it's NOT real: shootable).

If it was possible, it should be available to do.
And keep the morals of it OUT.
I don't want morals FORCED on me.
Do you want them FORCED on you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I do not want morals forced on me and neither will they be. I was making a suggestion as to a mod as NOT being able to shoot the lifeboats, but if the shooting ability is modded so be it, I'll still d/l it.


Yes you stated your position allright:


hauitsme posted Mon July 26 2004 03:38
Yes, there should be lifeboats, and No, you shouldn't shoot them. Save your ammo for something that can shoot at you. Instead, just line up your sub and run em over, back up, and do it again!


If the above was meant as a joke it was not a very good one.


I have read some constructive talk and some degenerate talk from you in your posts in the past but this one that I assume you refered me to look at says you are one sick puppy, unless like I said it was meant to be a joke, but again it was a very bad joke.

just line up your sub and run em over, back up, and do it again! <span class="ev_code_RED">INDEED</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Agritus
03-29-2005, 11:11 AM
I've seen the crew of a small cargo ship flying into the deep black sea when their ship was exploding. I think they would have been happy about life boats.

Agri

trout_007
03-29-2005, 12:57 PM
The proper way to do this is to allow destruction of lifeboats, but have some crew members suffer from lower morale as a result.

You should also run the risk of having a few people transfer out of your boat when you return to port.

Trout

Nin-Urta
03-29-2005, 01:27 PM
Look... I did some target-practicing on the ppl waving at me when I was leaving Wilhelmshaven. THEY DIDN'T DIE!!!

I want a mod... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


No, really... I want lifeboats, but I really don't care if I can shoot at them or not. I like ppl running on the deks; that would be a nice feature - hell, ships that look like SOME living ppl are on them would be a great improvement.

gunnulf229
03-29-2005, 01:34 PM
Well, historically speaking, shooting up a lifeboat would be considered a warcrime, unless the lifeboat had men firing at the u-boat itself, it'd be pretty hard to justify, whatever your reasoning. Furthermore, wasting ammo of any kind on a lifeboat, a completely worthless military target, would be foolish in the extreme. The smallest thing I've shot at was a small coastal vessel (different than a coastal merchant), and I shot it up a bit with my flak gun which made pretty quick work of it. These kinds of vessels were sometimes sunk (but better avoided) since thye likely had radio equipment to radio friendly forces and notify them of a u-boat presence. Killing a boat with radio equipment had a purpose. Shooting a lifeboat didn't. It would be a very callous sailor to fire on unarmed and helpess men adrift at sea. After all...the purpose of sinking the ship they were from was to do exactly that, deny the enemy the ship itself. Take away their power to carry cargo. The "bottom" was more important than the men or even the cargo itself.

I don't know what others might do, but I, for one, have better things to do with my deck gun and torpedoes than to waste them on sailors in a lifeboat.

Having said all of this, it would be cool to see men in boats. It just adds realism to the game. Will somebody out there shoot 'em up? Absolutely...there's always some guns blazing folk out there who just enjoy the guts flying aspect of a game.

I suppose a way around that would be to have to do what skippers and crews had to do in real life. Account for their ammo useage. Bdu would think pretty dimly of an entry saying you'd shot your entire wad of torps at 1 ship and shot and sunk lifeboats with your deckgun and flak gun. Torpedoes and munitions sure didn't grow on trees, even early in the war, so skippers had to make 'em count.

Nin-Urta
03-29-2005, 01:38 PM
It would be nice to have 'shooting at lifeboats' affect the moral of your crew... as it did in reality.

Banquet
03-29-2005, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nin-Urta:
It would be nice to have 'shooting at lifeboats' affect the moral of your crew... as it did in reality. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yes, it no doubt would affect their moral.. but what historical reference do you have for that comment?

hauitsme
03-29-2005, 02:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>hauitsme:Save your ammo for something that can shoot at you. Instead, just line up your sub and run em over, back up, and do it again! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>LostGunner:If the above was meant as a joke it was not a very good one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Was it a joke? I thought it was. I still do.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/yes.gif
But even if it wasn't a joke, so what!
It's not for you or anyone else to JUDGE me on what I do, just like it's not for me to JUDGE you or anyone else.
It's having the ABILITY and FREEDOM to do it that is the point.
Could it happen? YES, and it just may have.
Should it happen? NO, but I won't stop anyone else from doing it.

moggel
03-29-2005, 02:11 PM
Sure, why not. I'd love to see more "life" in general. Crew moving on boats, getting busy if my sub is spotted or when their boat comes under attack. Friendly boats would have sailors waving or send morse signals.

Of course, for sake of FPS, this should be a tuneable/optional feature.

As for shooting life boats. This would require damage models, taking dev.time from more important stuff so I'd say "no" to that.

hauitsme
03-29-2005, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>moggel:
As for shooting life boats. This would require damage models, taking dev.time from more important stuff so I'd say "no" to that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The DevTeam have absolutely NOTHING to do with adding Lifeboatshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif or what we'll be able to do.
They decided to let everyone drown.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/drown.gif

Banquet
03-29-2005, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>moggel:
As for shooting life boats. This would require damage models, taking dev.time from more important stuff so I'd say "no" to that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The DevTeam have absolutely NOTHING to do with adding Lifeboatshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif or what we'll be able to do.
They decided to let everyone drown.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/drown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They didn't model the boats toilet either, that doesn't mean no one takes a *tinkle* for the whole patrol.

Good icons btw http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

----------------------------

Banquet
03-29-2005, 02:29 PM
Oooh, it lets me say ****.. but blanks me on ****

nice touch! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Edit.. ok, got me on both since my post. Sorry mods! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
-------------------------------------
Please try to keep your post as free from bad language as possible.
A lot of people from different age groups actualy visit here.
------------------------------------
you may keep it mean, but keep it clean Banquet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Nin-Urta
03-29-2005, 02:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nin-Urta:
It would be nice to have 'shooting at lifeboats' affect the moral of your crew... as it did in reality. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yes, it no doubt would affect their moral.. but what historical reference do you have for that comment? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
U-Boot crews fought a very abstract war; most of the sailors never saw anybody die except for their comrades if they were attacked themselves. So they - unlike soldiers at the frontline - were not accustomed to bloodshed and corpses. Also take into consideration the fact that - being sailors themselves - the prospect of not being rescued at sea - either starving to death or drowning - was a very terrifying image.

A nice book which covers this is Mulligan's 'Neither Sharks Nor Wolves'.

Banquet
03-29-2005, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nin-Urta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nin-Urta:
It would be nice to have 'shooting at lifeboats' affect the moral of your crew... as it did in reality. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yes, it no doubt would affect their moral.. but what historical reference do you have for that comment? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
U-Boot crews fought a very abstract war; most of the sailors never saw anybody die except for their comrades if they were attacked themselves. So they - unlike soldiers at the frontline - were not accustomed to bloodshed and corpses. Also take into consideration the fact that - being sailors themselves - the prospect of not being rescued at sea - either starving to death or drowning - was a very terrifying image.

A nice book which covers this is Mulligan's 'Neither Sharks Nor Wolves'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, but where's your reference for 'shooting at lifeboats affect the moral of your crew - as it did in reality'

I.e.. apart from one famous incident where the captain was executed for war crimes after the war - I'm not aware on any other occasion when this happened.

RedTerex
03-29-2005, 02:52 PM
At the end of the day, its morality gone up the wall...over it..and off into the distance !

Viz its ok to torpedo ships and blow them up and all of the people on board..no bother..no sweat..its good fun.

but to have lifeboats with survivors in is a no-no ??

I cant understand the logic..is there any...realy ??

I find it to be more anti-moralistic NOT to have lifeboats.

And like I have advocated in past pages...if you line your sights up on a lifeboat and hit your space bar to discharge your gun ...the game ends and with it your renown and all saves.
THAT would be a great deterent.

Lifeboats may make it as a mod..I will one of the first to Dl it. With full realism included...I hope so !..I'm too mature to go blast it like some degenerate, alot of others on this forum are mature enough to handle it too.

Beeryus offers the best solution in modding debris.
And the frame rate drop would be nill.


LOL the controversey continues.......


just to edit my own post.
Full realism would be to pull alongside a lifeboat like we pulled alonside the 'downed pilot' in SH I Commanders Editon. but this time we hit a button on the keyboard and a message pops up saying...:
"A portion of supplies has been given to the lifeboat crew"

That would be a real nice piece of programming !

Nin-Urta
03-29-2005, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nin-Urta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nin-Urta:
It would be nice to have 'shooting at lifeboats' affect the moral of your crew... as it did in reality. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yes, it no doubt would affect their moral.. but what historical reference do you have for that comment? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
U-Boot crews fought a very abstract war; most of the sailors never saw anybody die except for their comrades if they were attacked themselves. So they - unlike soldiers at the frontline - were not accustomed to bloodshed and corpses. Also take into consideration the fact that - being sailors themselves - the prospect of not being rescued at sea - either starving to death or drowning - was a very terrifying image.

A nice book which covers this is Mulligan's 'Neither Sharks Nor Wolves'. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, but where's your reference for 'shooting at lifeboats affect the moral of your crew - as it did in reality'

I.e.. apart from one famous incident where the captain was executed for war crimes after the war - I'm not aware on any other occasion when this happened. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe it didn't happen BECAUSE it would affect moral? Just a wild guess...

Perhaps there are no records about there being such an incident - if it was reported - at the U-Boot force during WW2, but there are a lot of examples of incidents during wartime (e.g. Vietnam) where murder affected moral. So if it happened at sea during 1939-1945 there is a big chance it would have affected moral.

Banquet
03-29-2005, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
At the end of the day, its morality gone up the wall...over it..and off into the distance !

_Viz_ its ok to torpedo ships and blow them up and _all_ of the people on board..no bother..no sweat..its good fun.

but to have lifeboats with survivors in is a no-no ??

I cant understand the logic..is there any...realy ??

I find it to be more anti-moralistic NOT to have lifeboats.

And like I have advocated in past pages...if you line your sights up on a lifeboat and hit your space bar to discharge your ...the game ends and with it your renown and all saves.
THAT would be a great deterent.

Lifeboats may make it as a mod..I will one of the first to Dl it. With full realism included...I hope so !..I'm too mature to go blast it like some degenerate, alot of others on this forum are mature enough to handle it too.

Beeryus offers the best solution in modding debris.
And the frame rate drop would be nill.

This thread is still kicking *** !
LOL the controversey continues....... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your opinion is well stated and I agree in many respects.

However you have to understand that some things are assumed in the game. Walking on deck is assumed. Eating food is assumed. More importantly, virtually every city is assumed, navigating by the stars is assumed.

The sim can't take into account everything.

Just because it doesn't show lifeboats doesn't mean all hands go down with the ship.. We assume lifeboats save some of the crew.

However, if we're talking about a mod.. great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Get going and make one. I'd download it if it were done well and it's none of anyone's business how that mod is used by people.

But, if we're hoping the devs will add it, there are so many things I'd like to see the devs add before worrying about this..

I think this discussion ranks too high compared to other topics that are genuinely trying to raise the bar of SHIII

RedTerex
03-29-2005, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:


Your opinion is well stated and I agree in many respects.

However you have to understand that some things are assumed in the game. Walking on deck is assumed. Eating food is assumed. More importantly, virtually every city is assumed, navigating by the stars is assumed.

The sim can't take into account everything
-------------------------
I disagree..subpens made it as did Nurses, seagulls, coastlines, Dynamic campaign....
-------------------------

Just because it doesn't show lifeboats doesn't mean all hands go down with the ship.. We assume lifeboats save some of the crew.
-------------------------
but we cant see them...
thats the whole issue!
-------------------------

However, if we're talking about a mod.. great http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Get going and make one. I'd download it if it were done well and it's none of anyone's business how that mod is used by people.
-------------------------
agreed.
-------------------------

But, if we're hoping the devs will add it, there are so many things I'd like to see the devs add before worrying about this..
-------------------------
we could have them as well!
-------------------------

I think this discussion ranks too high compared to other topics that are genuinely trying to raise the bar of SHIII <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-------------------------
Yes..but its vintage speaks for itself !
-------------------------

Banquet
03-29-2005, 03:57 PM
You're comparing having coastlines to lifeboats! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fair enough.. I can't argue with that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

LostGunner
03-29-2005, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Was it a joke? I thought it was. I still do.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/yes.gif
But even if it wasn't a joke, so what!
It's not for you or anyone else to JUDGE me on what I do, just like it's not for me to JUDGE you or anyone else.
It's having the ABILITY and FREEDOM to do it that is the point.
Could it happen? YES, and it just may have.
Should it happen? NO, but I won't stop anyone else from doing it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well you sure let me know your age by this last rant of yours so have it your way while I go read the posts from the Adults.

Have a nice day.

BoneDaddy1844
03-29-2005, 05:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostGunner:

just line up your sub and run em over, back up, and do it again! <span class="ev_code_RED">INDEED</span> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hauitsme, I think you damaged his fragile psyche, there...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

hauitsme
03-29-2005, 06:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BoneDaddy1844:
_hauitsme_, I think you damaged his fragile psyche, there...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If so, let's hope he recovers.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/bestwishes.gif

Some just don't get it, or don't want to. (How about you?)
In what other way can it be said? What words can I use?
I'll still continue to want our interaction with Lifeboatshttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif to be <span class="ev_code_yellow">open and unrestricted</span>.
I won't hold anyone else up from doing what they want to do with them, so PLEASE don't do it to me.
Your standards/behavior/morals/ethics are yours. Mine are mine.

What else is there to say?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/think.gif

BoneDaddy1844
03-29-2005, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:

Your standards/behavior/morals/ethics are yours. Mine are mine.

What else is there to say? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Just because others object to unrestricted lifeboat interaction due to some personal, ethical, religious, sanctimonious, or heaven-know's-what reason, doesn't mean that they can or should decide what's the best or most appropriate lifeboat mod for you and I.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

indylavi
03-29-2005, 11:39 PM
I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. Now I'm sure this has been repeated several times so I will be brief. This is a game, killing in a game does not equal killing in real life. It does not make you a bad person if you kill in game. Try going to the nearest police station and tell them you'd like to confess to a murder. Last night I played Grand Theft Auto and I shot somebody on the street. See what their reaction is. I think the moral issue is a very weak position.

A better position would be to argue that it doesn't add anything to gameplay or that it's addition would only slightly add to gameplay and it's affect on the game would not equal that amount of work required. I believe people have to right to consume any product (or variation of a product like a mod) that they choose rather or not I personally like or agree with it. It's freedom of choice.

I for one would like to see lifeboats. I also would like for you to be able to shoot at them. Killing a lifeboat should have a negative impact on your crew. However, I would like the ability to gain more renown for given supplies to a lifeboat or saving people. Perhaps an option to tow them to a neutral port.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 01:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:
You're comparing having coastlines to lifeboats! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fair enough.. I can't argue with that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My answer was based on your poser...
"...The sim can't take into account everything..."
My reply wasnt comparing I was merely stressing that other items made it into SH3 that are pure eyecandy, as lifeboats would inevitbly end up as being.
All the extras that made it into SH3 have not been made an issue of RE: frame rate loss, resources, etc.
Lifeboats would be an addition of realism to the game. Why is it that some disagree or are they just being the devils advocate.

kag9000
03-30-2005, 02:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by indylavi:
I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. Now I'm sure this has been repeated several times so I will be brief. This is a game, killing in a game does not equal killing in real life. It does not make you a bad person if you kill in game. Try going to the nearest police station and tell them you'd like to confess to a murder. Last night I played Grand Theft Auto and I shot somebody on the street. See what their reaction is. I think the moral issue is a very weak position.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The trouble with that argument is GTA has no basis in reality. That is, SH3 is a simulation of a U-Boat and is based on real events in relative recent history - where as GTA is based on mythical places and characters and is largely cartoonish in its violence and humour.

I just do not want this sim turning into another moron's and/or nazi-fanboys pathetic fantasy, and I feel being able to kill survivors in-game will do this. If this game goes that way, and is supported substantially by the community, Ubisoft can have my copy back.

hauitsme
03-30-2005, 02:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>kag9000:
I just do not want this sim turning into another moron's and/or nazi-fanboys pathetic fantasy, and I feel being able to kill survivors in-game will do this. If this game goes that way, and is supported substantially by the community, Ubisoft can have my copy back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You'd best get looking for that box it came in then, with THAT reasoning, or I should say LACK of reasoning and reading skills.
UBI HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH LIFEBOATS.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/titanic.gif

And it definitely is supported substantially by the community. Take a look at the poll on Pg1.
It will be a mod. Don't d/l it!

kag9000
03-30-2005, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
or I should say LACK of reasoning and reading skills.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha thats a bit rich coming from you.

Personal abuse aside, from what I hear so far from your reasoning:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I won't hold anyone else up from doing what they want to do with them, so PLEASE don't do it to me.
Your standards/behavior/morals/ethics are yours. Mine are mine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's just as well we have laws to keep people like you in check.

SaxonThegn
03-30-2005, 04:09 AM
Ask yourself one question. Do you honestly believe that WWII seamen, some of whom are still alive, would approve of a feature in a computer simulation that allows you to kill survivors - all but in a virtual environment and for your simple gaming kicks? I don't think so.

We know that WWII veterans have provided their stamp of authenticity to certain gaming products, so they are not averse to simulating war. However, I'm not sure they would condone such an addition to a €˜game€. It would increase realism (?) but at the expense of trivialising the entire issue due to the medium.

Still, who gives a toss what they might think! Right kids?

Cheers

kag9000
03-30-2005, 04:23 AM
Excellent post SaxonThegn, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

SaxonThegn
03-30-2005, 08:09 AM
I look at hauitsme's sig and when I see those slavering chops and hear what he has to say it sends a shiver down my spine.

Cheers

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 08:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
Ask yourself one question. Do you honestly believe that WWII seamen, some of whom are still alive, would approve of a feature in a computer simulation that allows you to kill survivors - all but in a virtual environment and for your simple gaming kicks? I don't think so. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why are people still talking about this issue as if the developers might put in lifeboats? How many times do we have to say that they WILL NOT be adding lifeboats to the game? This is a mod issue. It's not an official patch issue.

Given that fact, as for what mod gets 'approved' by veterans, who gave any veteran power of approval over mod-makers? What veterans think about a mod is irrelevant. I have personal experience of this: I made a mod for B-17 II which one particular veteran didn't approve of. The mod still got made, the veteran in question wasn't forced to use it, and tens or perhaps even hundreds of people got to use the mod.

Veterans (or anyone else for that matter) can complain until they're blue in the face, but it's not going to stop mod-makers from creating any mod they d@mned well please.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It would increase realism (?) but at the expense of trivialising the entire issue due to the medium. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm. So you don't think that the very act of making a game out of war 'trivialises the entire issue'? I mean how much more trivial can you get? Any veteran who has an issue with lifeboats being added to a GAME needs to get his priorities straight. If he wants to get upset about trivialisations of war, maybe he should start by trying to stop game developers from portraying war in the first place.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 08:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
Ask yourself one question. Do you honestly believe that WWII seamen, some of whom are still alive, would approve of a feature in a computer simulation that allows you to kill survivors - all but in a virtual environment and for your simple gaming kicks? I don't think so.

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

NO, NO, NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have you NOT read anything else of this thread ???

WE WHO WANT LIFEBOATS IN THIS SIM DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT THEM UP!
read page one..look at the vote issue !
read about how the voters FOR lifeboats would NOT shoot at them even if realism was the forte !

I need to see a doctor ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

SaxonThegn
03-30-2005, 08:53 AM
Beery, I never once said the devs would add this feature. It was cleared up a long time ago that the devs would not be adding this. I'm referring to a mod.

I do think that war simulation trivialises the real thing to some degree but I love simulation as do many of us, and I have a healthy respect for those men and women who took part in the conflict. However, for some of us there are limits to simulation we feel it necessary to adhere to in the name of good taste.

It's as Dr. Ian Malcolm says in Jurassic Park:
Yeah, but you were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

You have no such limits. That's fine. I'm certainly not saying you can't write your mod - I'm sure your work will lead onto greater things, as it has done in the past.

What bothers me is the 'frothing at the mouth' enthusiasm some people on here show for shooting crews out of the water - a Quake mod for SHIII!

Good luck with your mod. Cheers.

SaxonThegn
03-30-2005, 09:05 AM
RedTerex, actually the majority vote is 63% for lifeboats with full realism. Hmm considering that the second option is 'YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at' it would appear to me that the majority want to destroy them.

Even you voted for option 1 you doofus. You may have backpeddled with some throw-away comment about handing out cigarettes and food but you voted number 1.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>read about how the voters FOR lifeboats would NOT shoot at them even if realism was the forte ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, I've read some **** in my life and that comment ranks up with the best of it. I presume that when you talk about 'we' you actually mean 'me'. You certainly do need to see a doctor.

Cheers
----------------------------------------------
Yes but voting for for full realism does not mean that I intend or intended to shoot up lifeboats.

If you can see that...I doubt it but its worth a try ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 09:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
However, for some of us there are limits to simulation we feel it necessary to adhere to in the name of good taste. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you won't be forced to use the mod if you don't want to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It's as Dr. Ian Malcolm says in Jurassic Park:
_Yeah, but you were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should._ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no moral issue here. No real people are getting hurt. This is a simulation, and its only real goal should be realism. Besides, you can't legislate morality. If people want to make lifeboats that have human targets in them, there's nothing you can do to stop it, and if you value realism in a sim you shouldn't try, because lifeboats with people in them are realistic. Besides, the mods people make are their own concern, and unless they physically hurt someone, why should you care what people do with those mods? People aren't going to become more ethical simply because they aren't allowed shoot survivors out of lifeboats in SH3, nor are they going to become less ethical simply because they CAN shoot people out of lifeboats in a game. Games allow us to pretend to step outside of our own personalities, but our actions in a game don't fundamentally change our personalities. If they did, there would be people walking around who have literally been turned evil from playing a dark side character in a Star Wars game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>What bothers me is the 'frothing at the mouth' enthusiasm some people on here show for shooting crews out of the water - a Quake mod for SHIII! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It bothers me too. But the fact that some people are idiots doesn't mean that we should limit everyone's gaming experience. Lifeboats were a real factor in the U-Boat war. It is wrong to exclude them purely because of fear that someone might abuse the feature. Everything is prone to abuse, but that shouldn't stop us from using things. Abuse goes on in daycare centres, but that doesn't mean we should close down every daycare centre. The potential advantages outweigh the occasional abuse.

Anyway, there's also the role-playing issue. Some folks may want to run a career where they role-play an out-and-out Nazi who behaves immorally. They may not be immoral in real life, but games allow us to get some idea of how these Nazi idiots behaved and thought, showing us that such behaviour, far from being monstrous, can be all too human. In that way games like this can be a learning tool to show us why such behaviour is wrong, and how regular human beings can adopt a worldview that turns them into war criminals.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 09:40 AM
Maybe I should have put my responce in its own post.
But.........
being a mod it saved me all the hassle of editing it ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The contoversey continues, the heat is on, tempers are flaring, its all go, go, go here at the ole Lifeboat poll thread.

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
Even you voted for option 1 you doofus.

...Hehe, I've read some **** in my life and that comment ranks up with the best of it. I presume that when you talk about 'we' you actually mean 'me'. You certainly do need to see a doctor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless you REALLY want to admit you've lost the argument, you should confine your attacks to the argument, not the person making it.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
Even you voted for option 1 you doofus.

...Hehe, I've read some **** in my life and that comment ranks up with the best of it. I presume that when you talk about 'we' you actually mean 'me'. You certainly do need to see a doctor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless you REALLY want to admit you've lost the argument, you should confine your attacks to the argument, not the person making it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I saw that one as well Beeryus, I let him off though LOL

BTW, Beeryus, your posts are of extreme quality explaining the facts, whys and wherefores in a light that is unbiased and informative..if you like a "brass tacks" and practical sense.
I am well impress with how you present the case and sound reasoning which you portray to a brilliant degree.

Not being a person who " climbs the trouser leg" but more a person who gives credit to where its due for presenting the argument in a proffesional manner.

SaxonThegn:
Your a wee bit santimnious and emotional but your views are welcomed all the same !

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
RedTerex, actually the majority vote is 63% for lifeboats with full realism. Hmm considering that the second option is 'YES. include life-boats that cannot be shot at' it would appear to me that the majority want to destroy them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a non sequitur. It doesn't necessarily follow that people who want full realism want to shoot at the people in the lifeboats. I would like people in lifeboats to be able to take damage, not because I want to shoot them, but for precisely the opposite reason. If I'm shooting at a ship and I see lifeboats in the water, I'll be more inclined to shoot away from areas that have lifeboats in the vicinity.
----------------------------------------

My words EXACTLY

kag9000
03-30-2005, 10:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
Unless you REALLY want to admit you've lost the argument, you should confine your attacks to the argument, not the person making it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats also bit rich coming from you Beeryus, as you have personally attacked myself in a previous post. 'Do as I say, not as I do' eh?

SaxonThegn has not lost the argument, everything he has said is valid. Perhaps you just don't get it, along with quite a few others it seems.

Well I have had enough of this, as discussion seems pointless. Perhaps it's time for action.

SaxonThegn
03-30-2005, 10:08 AM
Beery - lost the argument? I don't think anyone will ever lose or win this 'debate'. However, I do see where you're going with that comment. After fifteen years on the Internet you get to see a great deal of childish flame bait.

I don't understand why you keep referring to people wanting to stop the mod. I certainly don't want you to stop the mod - how could I ever force you to? I voiced my opinion on why I thought it was unethical. Sorry, but I thought that was acceptable, or did I miss a meeting?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's a non sequitur. It doesn't necessarily follow that people who want full realism want to shoot at the people in the lifeboats. I would like people in lifeboats to be able to take damage, not because I want to shoot them, but for precisely the opposite reason. If I'm shooting at a ship and I see lifeboats in the water, I'll be more inclined to shoot away from areas that have lifeboats in the vicinity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All I can say to that is... LOL. Priceless. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

So, I wish you and your groupie, RedTerex, all the best in completing your mod. If you feel that constitutes losing the argument and makes you feel better then so be it. Knock yourself out, my friend.

Cheers

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 10:20 AM
Haha A groupie LOL, thats very funny thanks for the laugh. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I am voicing why I want lifeboats in the game.

YOU have NOT read all of the posts on this thread have you!
I know that by the credulance of you posts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

set aside a night and get updated in all the issues. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The personal attacks are proof of your inexperience at handling a topic of such magnitude.
Ie you whinge on about personalities rather than directing proposition at the real issue. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

SaxonThegn
03-30-2005, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The mind boggles and defies beleif at some of the patronising drivel that appears on these forums sometimes! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That will be an insult...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The personal attacks are proof of your inexperience at handling a topic of such magnitude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice one RedTerex. This is proof of your inexperience at handling a Forum Admin job of such magnitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
-----------------
still on the personal front !Its tough as admin...but I get used to it !
-----------------


Have the last word and let's move on. This isn't going anywhere.
-----------------
Ok your submission is accepted, thanks for
your input see you on another thread.
-----------------


Cheers and all the best.
-----------------
same to you !
-----------------

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kag9000:
Thats also bit rich coming from you Beeryus, as you have personally attacked myself in a previous post. 'Do as I say, not as I do' eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never attack a person unless they attack me first. Show me the quote where I attacked you rather than your argument. When you post the quote, make sure it is indeed you I'm attacking. It's easy to identify so strongly with an argument that one feels personally attacked when someone argues against your position. I think you'll probably find that's more likely the case.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 10:50 AM
A lot of "new names" are contributing to this thread without having first updated themselves on the information and indeed argumants available and the corresponding answers.

Maybe its a bit much now to ask new unaquainted members and those ******ed by not getting updated on this thread to read all 29 pages!

maybe then the success of the thread will inevitably be its own downfall.
BUT the controversey, the attacks, the insults, the bravado, the common sense, the intellect, the sponge pudding headedness, the brio and the rightious still continues......

will this post ever end, die a death..me thinks not..WHY???...it is too much a part of the game of SH3..like it or not.

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That's a non sequitur. It doesn't necessarily follow that people who want full realism want to shoot at the people in the lifeboats. I would like people in lifeboats to be able to take damage, not because I want to shoot them, but for precisely the opposite reason. If I'm shooting at a ship and I see lifeboats in the water, I'll be more inclined to shoot away from areas that have lifeboats in the vicinity. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All I can say to that is... LOL. Priceless. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately, labels don't make convincing arguments. Calling my argument 'priceless' only shows that you either can't, or refuse to, counter my argument. Most people will assume you can't.

Aside from that, your assertion basically indicates that you think I'm lying. I assure you I'm not, and I urge you to give people the respect that you'd like for yourself. If you don't give others respect, why should they give it to you?

Your assertion also indicates that you think that everyone would be tempted to fire on lifeboats if they had destructible humans in them. I think that says a bit more about your personality than perhaps you'd like. Trust me, not everyone is that callous.

Willey
03-30-2005, 12:53 PM
http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif

Banquet
03-30-2005, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:
You're comparing having coastlines to lifeboats! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fair enough.. I can't argue with that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My answer was based on your poser...
"...The sim can't take into account everything..."
My reply wasnt _comparing_ I was merely stressing that other _items_ made it into SH3 that are pure eyecandy, as lifeboats would inevitbly end up as being.
All the extras that made it into SH3 have not been made an issue of RE: frame rate loss, resources, etc.
Lifeboats would be an addition of realism to the game. Why is it that some disagree or are they just being the devils advocate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blimey, this one's rumbling on!

Red, you're saying coastline's are eyecandy? Well in a way they are.. they're graphically shown on screen.. but really.. they are kinda needed aren't they?

I mean, navigating out of Kiel to West of Ireland would be kinda easy otherwise.. oh wait, there would be no Ireland, cause there would be no coastline!! Or are you suggesting we'd just stop moving if we just hit the invisible coast - 'ah, I'm not getting any further.. that must be Ireland!'

I have to say that, yes.. graphically, it'd be cool to see lifeboats.. if done right. On the other hand it could well end looking **** but, if it's a mod, I don't care.. I'll just get rid of it.

But really, you mentioning lifeboats in direct comparison to having coastlines and a dynamic campaign is staggering!

Most of the u boat campaign was fought against convoys. If a ship was hit, another ship.. often a destroyer would pull alongside the stricken ship and take off survivors.. this was far more common and could well be easier to mod. It would also have a bigger (wouldn't be hard) affect on gameplay because the destroyer would be temporarily tied up taking off crew, and therefore out the battle for a while.. That would be a better mod in my opinion.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:

Red, you're saying coastline's are eyecandy? Well in a way they are.. they're graphically shown on screen.. but really.. they are kinda needed aren't they?

I mean, navigating out of Kiel to West of Ireland would be kinda easy otherwise.. oh wait, there would be no Ireland, cause there would be no coastline!! Or are you suggesting we'd just stop moving if we just hit the invisible coast - 'ah, I'm not getting any further.. that must be Ireland!'

But really, you mentioning lifeboats in direct comparison to having coastlines and a dynamic campaign is staggering!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really.
You see Silent Hunter 3 was not going to have a coastline. It was only After I and a few others lobbied for it ie a DC that we had a coastline included.And coming out of the harbour was going to be a cinematic until I and a few others lobbied against that as well.

The devs listened as did the Corporation responsible for SH3 as a whole...we were both amazed and delighted...sadly Lifeboats did not get the same reception...but the lobbying and controversy still continues.

Ok happy with that?

right.

Along the same lines then if this and other stuff could be included in SH3 at our request then why not lifeboats...thats WHY I compare lifeboats to the coastline.


Are you clued up any more now ??

hauitsme
03-30-2005, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>RedTerex:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Banquet: But really, you mentioning lifeboats in direct comparison to having coastlines and a dynamic campaign is staggering! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You see Silent Hunter 3 was not going to have a coastline. It was only After I and a few others lobbied for it ie a DC that we _had_ a coastline included. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Red, I was going to answer this for you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I spent hours last night going page by page, post by post(started on pg1 of course)looking for other threads/comments/links related to the arguments of some 'why should there be Lifeboats'-'what are they good for'. I found some, but not the ones I know are there(which thread is that in? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif ). I figure, by time they're found, the questions won't need to be answered anymore. Oh well. I'll still find them though! So much of this subject has been posted in other threads in a year by quite a few people.

FIX THE SEARCH FUNCTION ! ! !

hauitsme
03-30-2005, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>kag9000: Well I have had enough of this, as discussion seems pointless. Perhaps it's time for action. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Will the site be hacked? Ubi servers blown up? Start a war with China? Oooo!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/white-boggle-eyes.gif
Maybe we should stop discussing this subject. But then again, ....

NOT ! ! !http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/crazy2.gif

Beeryus
03-30-2005, 10:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Will the site be hacked? Ubi servers blown up? Start a war with China? Oooo! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure what he thinks he's going to do. Maybe he still thinks that Ubisoft are likely to add lifeboats to the sim. If not, then maybe he thinks Ubisoft can somehow stop people from making a lifeboat mod, LOL.

hauitsme
03-30-2005, 11:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>RedTerex:
I noticed that when you man the flak gun...if you turn and point it at a guy in the bridge it wont fire.
...well I was firing at an Elco PT boat that was diving in and out and noticed that my gun didnt fire when pointed in the area of da bridge.

Well could they have implemeted this "safe fire" for a Lifeboat as well??????? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm looking for the thread/post where this very question was asked, way back when(firing arcs, gun stops, etc). Had no idea it would be relevent here though!!

FIX THE SEARCH FUNCTION ! ! ! !

hauitsme
03-30-2005, 11:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Beeryus: They will exist there as eye candy. That's their purpose. That purpose (pretty graphics) has kept computer games going for the past 10 years, so I don't see why we shouldn't use that as a valid reason. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've argued against the 'eye-candy' the DevTeam spent time adding into this game while leaving out 'real' items (not just lifeboats btw - where are the Mk-24 FIDO's, enemy subs, etc). Now that the game is out, the 'real' things that should have been included from the start will be added. I can't even begin to count the times people have used the 'eye-candy' argument AGAINST having lifeboats.
Now we can use eye-candy FOR the advancement of realism!!http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/kult.gif

indylavi
03-30-2005, 11:16 PM
I will standby my statement. You should be able to shoot them and/or help them. Both having a bad or good response by your crew. I'm quite amazed that people ALWAYS suspect the worst of people. I also would shoot away from lifeboats. I think it would add a new tactical element to the game. Such as adding hostages in games like SWAT. I can shoot them in that game but I always make an effort even at the risk of my game life to avoid them. That's a big reason why I like the game. It's not all kill. You have to plan out an attack and not just shoot.

If you provide a consequence for shooting them then it would prevent massive lifeboat killings. Your crew could mutiny and your career ends. I seriously doubt somebody would only play this game to end their career that way and do it over and over and over and over. I'll give an example.

Say I'm attacking a costal merchant. I order my watch officer to fire the deck gun. The gun hits a lifeboat being lowered full of people. My officer is devastated and can't perform his job. I've now lost a top officer and have to replace him. That would add a new dynamic to the game and would force me to make better decisions or lose my best crew.

RedTerex
03-30-2005, 11:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:

...I spent hours last night going page by page, post by post(started on pg1 of course)looking for other threads/comments/links related to the arguments of some 'why should there be Lifeboats'-'what are they good for'. I found some, but not the ones I know are there...
FIX THE SEARCH FUNCTION ! ! ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Hauitsme http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif thats very appreciated.
I have tried to look through as well but could only 'skim' through as there is soooo much stuff there.
I know as you do that a few of us lifeboat hardliners have actually answered all these the types of questions/argument/and posers such as 'Banquet' is asking before.

There was some super replies from yourself, Beeryus and a few others, pity I cant find them.

Once again thanks for your support in this thread.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And Beeryus I totally agree that Lifeboats will now more than likely end up as a Mod rather than an add-on by Ubi devs.
Your corect as well that some if not all of the coding for lifeboats is already there in the programming RE: the Debris field.
Also rofl, there are some super lifeboat statics on the ships that could be transferred over somehow..so they dont even have to be made.
LOL it will be a bit like a jigsaw puzzle for a modder to assemble
I just wish my skills extended that far..unfortunately ..they dont !

I thank you for your welcome input into this thread as well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

REF: Search engine...yes its a bit naff.
I will "have a word" in the right direction and see if it can be upgraded, fixed, sorted or whatever! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SovietSpetsnaz
03-31-2005, 01:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
I wouldn't be so sure. Those crates that float after a sinking could be modified to look just like lifeboats. It wouldn't be all that hard. You could modify the crate textures and the 3D models, then it's just a matter of making the crates stay afloat longer, which should be easy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't mean mods. Ubi won't include them. However, if a mod includes them, they should be made invincible.

Beeryus
03-31-2005, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SovietSpetsnaz:
I didn't mean mods. Ubi won't include them. However, if a mod includes them, they should be made invincible. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A mod-maker will make what he wants to make. Who are you (or I for that matter) to say what a person 'should' put in his mod? If you don't like what he produces, don't use it.

Achtung_Englder
03-31-2005, 06:49 AM
how about if you shoot at lifeboats or drowning sailors you lose Renown

problem solved

you can have lifeboats but you if kill anyone stranded on a boat or in the sea you come back with far less or no Renown - in that way you can never progress in the game if you become a viscous bastard

Beeryus
03-31-2005, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kag9000:
Thats also bit rich coming from you Beeryus, as you have personally attacked myself in a previous post. 'Do as I say, not as I do' eh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never attack a person unless they attack me first. Show me the quote where I attacked you rather than your argument. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. I didn't think you could. It's very easy to put false allegations out there. Not so easy to back them up, is it. I think maybe you were confusing me with Hauitsme.

I don't expect an apology, but it would be nice.

hauitsme
03-31-2005, 06:20 PM
Don't put the blame me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

This is your fight, not mine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif

RedTerex
03-31-2005, 06:25 PM
I love this thread, its like a Soap ! LOL

Beeryus
03-31-2005, 08:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
Don't put the blame me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

This is your fight, not mine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you're the only one I saw calling people names. If it's my fight, why is it that you're the one doing all the actual fighting? I'm trying to hold a conversation here. As usual, you're just trolling.

hauitsme
03-31-2005, 08:13 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Beeryus:
Well, you're the only one I saw calling people names. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did I call kag9000 a name?

TASKFORCE1x1
03-31-2005, 10:37 PM
Nothing changes in these threads. LOL Gotta love freedom of speech! (within reason) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

hauitsme
04-01-2005, 01:49 AM
Here's a few links till the search function of this forum gets fixed or I finally find the things that are lost in the last 100+ pages. I'll add more if you like.

Sea-Rescue (http://www.sea-rescue.de/english/)

Urbain's Nautical Page (http://users.pandora.be/urbiehome/index.html)

WW2 People's War (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/Search?searchstring=lifeboats&x=0&y=0)

Merchant Navy (http://www.mikekemble.com/ww2/merchantnavy.html)

Survivors (http://scotland.users.ftech.net/u188p1.htm)


http://hitchcock.tv/mov/ccovers/lifeboat.jpg http://hitchcock.tv/mov/lifeboat/lifeth.jpg

BoneDaddy1844
04-01-2005, 06:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SaxonThegn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The mind boggles and defies beleif at some of the patronising drivel that appears on these forums sometimes! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That will be an insult...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The personal attacks are proof of your inexperience at handling a topic of such magnitude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice one RedTerex. This is proof of your inexperience at handling a Forum Admin job of such magnitude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
-----------------
still on the personal front !Its tough as admin...but I get used to it !
-----------------


Have the last word and let's move on. This isn't going anywhere.
-----------------
Ok your submission is accepted, thanks for
your input see you on another thread.
-----------------


Cheers and all the best.
-----------------
same to you !
----------------- <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me for my tardiness but...

SaxonThegn, you got...

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/misc16.jpg

Banquet
04-01-2005, 06:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:

Red, you're saying coastline's are eyecandy? Well in a way they are.. they're graphically shown on screen.. but really.. they are kinda needed aren't they?

I mean, navigating out of Kiel to West of Ireland would be kinda easy otherwise.. oh wait, there would be no Ireland, cause there would be no coastline!! Or are you suggesting we'd just stop moving if we just hit the invisible coast - 'ah, I'm not getting any further.. that must be Ireland!'

But really, you mentioning lifeboats in direct comparison to having coastlines and a dynamic campaign is staggering!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really.
You see Silent Hunter 3 was not going to have a coastline. It was only After I and a few others lobbied for it ie a DC that we _had_ a coastline included.And coming out of the harbour was going to be a cinematic until I and a few others lobbied against that as well.

The devs listened as did the Corporation responsible for SH3 as a whole...we were both amazed and delighted...sadly Lifeboats did not get the same reception...but the lobbying and controversy still continues.

Ok happy with that?

right.

Along the same lines then if this and other stuff could be included in SH3 at our request then why not lifeboats...thats WHY I compare lifeboats to the coastline.


Are you clued up any more now ?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I'm not really any more 'clued up' thanks Red! That ok with you??

For a start, I simply don't believe that coastline's weren't going to be included in the game until 'both' of your devine interventions. They are so intrinsic to any kind of naval game. Maybe harbours weren't included.. possibly.. but not coastlines!

Secondly, whatever pre-release communications you had with the devs have nothing to do with any realistic link between the importance of lifeboats, coastlines and a dynamic campaign. However, I apologise if I wasn't physic enough to know about you're request to the devs(!)

Just because you and your mate complained about the lack of harbours and lifeboats, doesn't mean that coastlines and a dynamic campaign are in any way comparable in importance to lifeboats in a U boat sim. If 'lifeboats didn't get the same reception' then maybe that's because the devs realised what a pointless, fps sucking, time consuming addition it would be!?

At any rate, I've no further interest in furthering the lifespan of this topic, which you've seemed so keen to revive on many an occasion. Something I've been guilty of as well.. but no more.. we'll have to agree to disagree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

btw, BoneDaddy1844. that picture is in bad taste

RedTerex
04-01-2005, 07:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:


No, I'm not really any more 'clued up' thanks Red! That ok with you??
------------------------------------
yeah thats ok with me !RT
------------------------------------
For a start, I simply don't believe that coastline's weren't going to be included in the game until 'both' of your devine interventions. They are so intrinsic to any kind of naval game. Maybe harbours weren't included.. possibly.. but not coastlines!
------------------------------------
coastlines were to be something like a band of different colour and that was it. It was not MY devine intervention alone but along with others..as stated ! RT
------------------------------------

Secondly, whatever pre-release communications you had with the devs have nothing to do with any realistic link between the importance of lifeboats, coastlines and a dynamic campaign. However, I apologise if I wasn't physic enough to know about you're request to the devs(!)
------------------------------------
psychic enough!! its a well known fact on these forums...for some RT
------------------------------------

Just because you and your mate complained about the lack of harbours and lifeboats, doesn't mean that coastlines and a dynamic campaign are in any way comparable in importance to lifeboats in a U boat sim. If 'lifeboats didn't get the same reception' then maybe that's because the devs realised what a pointless, fps sucking, time consuming addition it would be!?
------------------------------------
me and my mate!!LOL It was a collation of about 80 or so people...the rest of your paragraph has already been covered elsewhere on this thread RT
------------------------------------

At any rate, I've no further interest in furthering the lifespan of this topic, which you've seemed so keen to revive on many an occasion. Something I've been guilty of as well.. but no more.. we'll have to agree to disagree. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
------------------------------------
Thanks for your comments, your welcome to reply any time you wish RT
------------------------------------
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BoneDaddy1844
04-01-2005, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banquet:

btw, BoneDaddy1844. that picture is in bad taste <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

hauitsme
04-01-2005, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BoneDaddy1844:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Banquet:
btw, BoneDaddy1844. that picture is in bad taste <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There's worst. Wanna see?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/oh-no-1.gif

BTW, what did it taste like?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/candy.gif

BoneDaddy1844
04-01-2005, 08:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>BoneDaddy1844:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Banquet:
btw, BoneDaddy1844. that picture is in bad taste <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There's worst. Wanna see?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/oh-no-1.gif

BTW, what did it taste like?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/candy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't know about the taste.

But that smell. That gasoline smell.

Smells like...

Victory!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

hauitsme
04-04-2005, 05:48 PM
Lifeboats/Survivors (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=9091085392&m=4211043992&p=1) - Community Creatives


Before you drownhttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/drown.gif and diehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/grimreaper.gif ,
you should know the stars are where they're supposed to be.
Has anyone else noticed they even put in CONSTELLATIONS?! (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=857101043&m=1801045203)

From Stargazers to Starships (http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/stargaze/Sintro.htm)
Phases of the Moon (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/MoonPhase.html)
Complete Sun and Moon Data for One Day (http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneDay.html)
Determining your Latitude and Longitude (http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~cvm/latlon_find_location.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Stuff/calonboat.jpg

TASKFORCE1x1
04-11-2005, 01:00 AM
That picture calonboat.jpg was pretty intense hauitsme

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Not enough lifeboat for everyone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Nothing ever changes. Big buisness. Big Pride. "oh this ship is unsinkable"

But always its us small guys who suffer in then end. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

BigDaddySauce
04-28-2005, 07:37 PM
Coding lifeboats is a waste of time. Better to code wolfpacks, or something useful.

hauitsme
04-28-2005, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BigDaddySauce:
Coding lifeboats is a waste of time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Who's time?

hauitsme
04-28-2005, 07:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">TASKFORCE1x1:
Not enough lifeboat for everyone. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the guy with the oar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Beeryus
04-28-2005, 08:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigDaddySauce:
Coding lifeboats is a waste of time. Better to code wolfpacks, or something useful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, if we're aiming to waste time, it's far better to waste time on something incredibly complex, like Wolfpacks, that we have little or no chance of ever accomplishing, rather than spending time on something small that we have a good chance of doing.
--------------------------------------------
well said RT
--------------------------------------------

rayban671961
04-29-2005, 09:22 AM
I've paid for the time used for that game... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Shultzz005
04-29-2005, 11:46 AM
I think life boats should be in the game even if it is distastful to some. Maybe have a negative effect on moral (some may argue opposite) if you fire on them. Are lifeboats any different than the guys you blow off the boats?

http://img121.echo.cx/img121/3527/gunnerscantfly3sx.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

http://img121.echo.cx/img121/2826/shultzz005100k6qg.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

"What do you mean the head is broken?"

U-49
04-29-2005, 12:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shultzz005:
Are lifeboats any different than the guys you blow off the boats? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Perhaps the rationale was that the sailers who get blown off their ships quickly drown and die, and are off the screen in an instant?

*shrugs*

Personally, I would've liked to have had the inclusion of lifeboats coded. For me, it would've kept with the theme of the sim and increased the immersion factor. They could've made it a togglable option if they felt lifeboats would be offensive or otherwise distasteful to some gamers. Another possibilty would've been to not allow a sub to fire upon lifeboats -- if they were concerned some people would do that.

Either way, if a someone playing SH3 would potentially be offended by the inclusion of lifeboats -- I can't help but wonder what they're doing engaged in a sim that has them as the commander of weapon of war whos sole purpose it to seek out and destroy the enemy.

I'd feel a little better seeing surviors in lifeboats after I've sunk a ship and am about to move on. As it stands, it appears to be a complete and catastrophic loss of life -- they've all drowned or been otherwise killed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

RedTerex
04-29-2005, 04:05 PM
Nice pic there Shultz005, you captured that image at the right second LOL.

I have also seen poor unfortunates getting blasted to smithereeens on a DD that I deckgunned at point blank with a 10.5 cm HE shell. swiiiishhh LOL did those guys flyhigh.

Well...no lifeboats and the crews of these ships have only one option...blown skyhigh and all to hell.

The reasonable request for lifeboats would have given the crew some chance of surviving our expertise at blowing ships up.

the controversey continues...alive and kicking !

BigDaddySauce
04-29-2005, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beeryus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigDaddySauce:
Coding lifeboats is a waste of time. Better to code wolfpacks, or something useful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, if we're aiming to waste time, it's far better to waste time on something incredibly complex, like Wolfpacks, that we have little or no chance of ever accomplishing, rather than spending time on something small that we have a good chance of doing.
--------------------------------------------
well said RT
-------------------------------------------- </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hard maybe, but impossible? If they wanted to, I sure they could code wolfpacks. If their Christmas bonus depended on it, I guarantee you they could code wolfpacks.

Woldpacks aside, what about the countless bugs still in the game, are lifeboats more important to you than bugfixes?

Basically I see lifeboats as a minor aesthetic feature, which some people would probably disable for various reasons. IMO it seems like a mighty waste of time and resources to code such a feature.

Beeryus
04-29-2005, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigDaddySauce:
Hard maybe, but impossible? If they wanted to, I sure they could code wolfpacks. If their Christmas bonus depended on it, I guarantee you they could code wolfpacks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We were talking about mods. No one has been talking about an official patch adding lifeboats for months. Lifeboats in an official patch is not going to happen - the devs have said so. Mod-makers are the only ones who might give us lifeboats, and no mod-maker is likely to be able to add wolfpacks. Therefore, wolfpacks are a huge waste of time compared to lifeboats.

Messervy
04-29-2005, 07:31 PM
I never really participated in this ancient debate since it was allready "old" when I joined the forum, but it`s a comforting sight to see an "old friend" every now and then!

hauitsme
04-29-2005, 09:37 PM
This topic has been going on <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">before</span> this thread started.
In fact, that's one reason this POLL was started, to see what the concensus was.
There must have been close to a dozen different threads before this one.
Plus it was more or less a single place to let it be known why you felt the way you do about them.

Ubi decided last August they wouldn't touch the subject.
So stop complaining about the 'bugs' or 'fixes' that they should spend their time on instead of <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">LIFEBOATS</span>.


BTW, that's me beating the DevTeam off MY lifeboat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif The DevTeam can get their own! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hauitsme/Stuff/calonboat.jpg

BigDaddySauce
04-30-2005, 12:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">We were talking about mods. No one has been talking about an official patch adding lifeboats for months. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boy do I feel silly. All the same, I probably wouldn't use a lifeboat mod.

blue_76
04-30-2005, 02:10 PM
I'm all for lifeboats. Here's a great story about lifeboats and what a difference they made.. The story about the sinking of RMS Laconia.

http://uboat.net/photos/lac_u156.jpg


The sinking of Laconia (http://uboat.net/ops/laconia.htm)

Beeryus
04-30-2005, 06:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigDaddySauce:
Boy do I feel silly. All the same, I probably wouldn't use a lifeboat mod. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's the great thing about mods. You don't have to.

Maj_Solo
05-01-2005, 12:06 PM
I want them, and with sails too. I was also thinking, during my little experience today, what BdU would do if a sub radioed it was bopping around in the ocean with no steering or propulsion.

I was thinking that they wouldn't do anything immediately and was thinking maybe they skip trying to tow the boat but ask how much food they had left and then have a home turning sub pick them up if not more than 3 - 5 days from shore and sink the boat. If close to base could be worth trying to have another sub tow it, again only if a home turning sub could do the job.

If a life boat it needs sails cause who is going to rescue me and how do I get back into the war again? No I need to sail for a month or so until I reach Brest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

alanschu
05-01-2005, 05:22 PM
All right...who resurrected the dead thread???