OT: Can You Solve The Case?

[WernherVonTrapp]

OK, so first off, I'm bored. Consequently, I've decided to post a real life case that I encountered the other evening. My purpose is twofold (mybe three http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). First, you'll get a better understanding of the things we (police) deal with and second, you'll have a chance to apply your wits and see how far the investigative thought process leads you. I'll give you the opening facts (as I found them), and you apply your investigative resources to the challenge.

The Scenario:
I received a radio dispatch from my sergeant requesting my assistance at a specific location. The sergeant also advised dispatch to have the ambulance and paramedics respond as well.
The scene:
is a darkened (small) parking lot behind an office complex. There is another small parking lot (well lighted) in the front of this same building. Across the street along the main road, there is a Fire Station, a body shop and rows of houses running along both sides. There is another office complex next door (adjacent) to the dark parking lot I've just entered. The immediate vicinity is mostly residential, but the business district is only 1/10 mile up the road. A large city is less than 2 miles away.
The victim:
is a hispanic female in her mid 30s, naked except for a blue t-shirt, lying face down on the asphalt and bleeding from a severe laceration on her right forearm. There are no other apparent signs of injury, the temperature is 24°F with a light breeze, it's 2:00am in the morning and almost no vehicles on the roadway except for an occasional car/delivery-truck every 10 to 15 minutes.
The victim is breathing but barely, there is an easily detected odor of an alcoholic beverage near her, no other vehicles are parked in the lot but two are parked in the front lot. There's a pyramid-type cigarette ashtray lying almost in the middle of the parking lot, approximately 25' away.

What do you think happened (so far) and what would you do next?

The reason I present it this way is for apparent reasons, since I came upon the scene just as described. I had an opinion of what may have happened, but that evolved as the situation/investigation progressed.

Investigators/Law-Enforcement and Fire Dept. personnel are asked to refrain from answering, since you already have experience in such matters. This is strictly for the lay-person.

I will add more details, almost as if you are conducting a real investigation, as your answers progress.
This is not a pass/fail initiative. It's strictly to produce some cognitive fun. Questions are welcome and invited, since I ask myself many while conducting my own investigations. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Hopefully, this will produce some feedback. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Mescator]

Reasonably tired, so i reckon I'll fairly well fail, buttt....

From the point of view of the police, her health is not currently my/our problem. I'd certainly try render assistance, particularly in stopping bleeding, if the paramedics weren't onsite, but if they are onsite as i believe from your description, I'd ignore her and secure the immediate area and get people to look for anyone who could have seen anything and any CCTV cameras that could have had the scene in sight. Car parks in that environment are something we install IR Cameras in fairly often at work.

I'd also photograph the ash tray and pay particular attention to it if it looked recent, which i assume it is. Would you bag it, or is that not your department?

If by this stage our victim was conscious, i'd see if i could get at least a basic description of what had happened.

I'd also probably do a mental checklist of nearby bars and pubs. Anywhere that served Alcohol within a reasonable walking distance.

How are we going so far?

[WernherVonTrapp]

Just to clarify, it was this type of tower ashtray and it was tipped over, laying on it's side in the parking lot.
http://www.eshophere.com/ashtrays/SWP2570-88-PyramidAshtray/SWP2570-88-WHT-300T.jpg
The rear parking lot is a lower level than the front parking lot by about 15' but there's no overhead in the rear lot. It's simply a matter of landscape terrain.
Try to pay close attention to all the details of the scenario and read the narrative carefully. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Wolferz]

Drunk.
Thought processes impaired.
Clothing removed because it was too hot.
Carried ashtray to middle of lot to put out cigarettes. Lacerated arm from climbing the fence. But didn't spill a drop of the drink.
That's why they call it Tekillya.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by Wolferz:
Drunk.
Thought processes impaired.
Clothing removed because it was too hot.
Carried ashtray to middle of lot to put out cigarettes. Lacerated arm from climbing the fence. But didn't spill a drop of the drink.
That's why they call it Tekillya. Serious inquiries only Wolferz. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Remember, this really happened and this poor woman needed immediate attention.

BTW, at first glance, what would you think you're dealing with here?

[Wolferz]

BTW, at first glance, what would you think you're dealing with here?

Possibly a rape or mugging victim.
Need more info.

Yes sir, she was in need of immediate attention. 24 degrees and wearing only a T-shirt? Hypothermia was of more immediate concern than the lacerated arm.
You fellows carry blankets?

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by Wolferz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW, at first glance, what would you think you're dealing with here?

Possibly a rape or mugging victim.
Need more info.

Yes sir, she was in need of immediate attention. 24 degrees and wearing only a T-shirt? Hypothermia was of more immediate concern than the lacerated arm.
You fellows carry blankets? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is precisely the thought that entered my mind too. We used to carry heavy wool blankets, but for reasons which I still don't know, we no longer do. All I had was a throw-away, plastic, fiber filled, bio blanket which I promptly placed over her.
Need more info? What would you do next? I'll provide the clues as you go along.

@Mescator:
Don't worry, it's not a pass or fail proposition. It's sort of like playing a game of Clue, only, Colonel Mustard and Professor Plum are replaced with real players.

As far as health and well being, it is certainly an officer's first "sworn" concern to protect the health, welfare and property of the public, besides impartially upholding the laws of the land. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
So far, we've covered her with some semlance of a blanket. Ambulance and Paramedics are on their way. Note, there are two officers at the scene. One must always stay with the victim. You are now the one who can conduct an initial investigation. What are your thoughts and what would you do next?

It's mostly a matter of: What would a reasonable person do or think? There are no trick questions & answers, I assure you. This is not about getting it right or wrong.
I'll fill in more info as the questions arise.
CLUE:
You have just spoken to the victim, determined that she is somewhat alert, but appears to be drunk and cannot remember what happened. She's pleading for you to help her and asking you "Where am I?"

Any possible CCTV cameras cannot be utilized at the moment since all the businesses are closed.

Note: You have to complete an initial investgative report to be turned into the detective bureau before the end of your tour of duty. The detective bureau will conduct any advanced investigations, unless you solve the case first. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[LouLewis1967]

It's curious that the ash can is in the middle of the parking lot (I assume this is still the back parking lot). Those are usually right next to doorways. What type of business is in the building(s) and what are their employee work hours? If there is a back door entrance to the parking lot, maybe the ash can was there for employee smoke breaks, so checking entrances around the back would be something I would do. If there are only front entrances, that makes the ash can even more curious.

One of the cars in front might be hers. Maybe she works in the building late hours, and was out back taking a smoke break. And was assaulted and tried to use the nearest object in defense, namely the ash can.

[BigDog1701a]

With the butt tower in the middle of the lot, a quick check of the building exits would be in order I think, Checking for any obvious signs of forced entry or any indication of where she might have cut herself near the building. Barring that, it's possible that we have a Christmas party gone very wrong. Alcohol causes people to do very stupid things at times.

[WMMangus]

Call for back-up to secure parking lot and begin perimeter search.

Examine ashtray. Is it where it's supposed to be or laying in a parking space(s)? Recently knocked-over and/or dragged? Look for spilled ashes/butts. Damaged? Where? How high off ground? Hit by car? Secure it. Any fresh tire marks suggesting someone took of at a high rate of speed?

Any sign of blood trail from vic's location, perhaps back to ashtray or anywhere else? Examine bottoms of her feet. Are they dirty, scratched suggesting she was running across parking lot from some place maybe in a semi-straight line from her location to ashtray? Where does that line lead to? If they are clean, might mean she was dumped there. Perhaps after being picked-up on the street.

Is location a known spot for ******s/johns?

Awaiting next clue.

[MWolfe1963]

Well, we need more info.

She was naked in a T-Shirt, neither make sense, who wheres a T-Shirt and goes naked out in the cold.

The ash tray....mmmmm, probably sat at the door or entry of the office building, so somehow it got moved. A rapist of mugger wouldn't move those things, plus as a weapon it would be blunt trauma, not a cut.

No hotel nearby, lot a lot of traffic, prolly not a prostitute, unless they use the back lot to do the deed, but doesn't make sense with other clues.

The cut didn't come from her falling where she was.

You said the odor of alcohol was nearby, not from her, doesn't sound like she was drunk.

Two cars in the front lot....mmmmm

A few questions..



First conclusion.

She was cleaning the office, work typically done my hispanics late at night, maybe that explains the two cars up front, one belonged to her, but that doesn't explain the other one, possible another cleaner that found her and called...because someone found her.

My first guess is she went to take out trash, some guys drinking in the back attacked her. I have seen cleaners carry ash cans to the dumpster and clean them, but overall they clean them on the spot, not supposed to dump them in a dumpster, but safely in another container.

But something else possible comes to mind, but more questions.

Did you smell any alcohol on her?

Did you find any beer can or bottles nearby and were they near the ashcan?

Was the Tshirt fitting to her or was it larger, did it have any emblems on the front of it?

Did you confirm if she was an office cleaner?

[WMMangus]

More about those residential buildings: Single family homes? Townhouses? Apartment blocks? Walk/patrol by them. Any front doors ajar? If apartment blocks, go inside and see if anything is amiss in the hallways.

[MWolfe1963]

You guys are posting fast, but now reading the other clues I am sure Lou and I are correct, she is an office cleaner. Having worked in many offices late at night this is typical and would explain the cars up front.

The ash tray is strange, where I thought she took it to clean, maybe Lou is right...

But I just read Wern said she appeared drunk.....that doesn't make sense with office cleaners.

[fireftr18]

Rasberries to you Wern for not letting me play. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I guess I'm just not one of the cool kids. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[WernherVonTrapp]

Many of you hit on some of the same clues. I'll limit my replies to those that were consecutively relevant at the scene. This will make for less typing by me, and less confusion for you.
Here are some more-
Clues:
Confirmed that she is heavily intoxicated.
No other signs of injury.
T-shirt fits her like a glove and of a typical feminine style. No socks, shoes or injuries to feet.
Further questioning yields little results as the victim is lethargic and continually slips in and out of consciousness.

The office complex is a two story rectangle with typical front and rear access, hence the two parking lots. All the residences are individual homes in an upscale neighborhood. The ashtray indeed, caught my attention.

A cursory check of the three rear (full glass) doors shows heavy blood staining on the two that are farthest away. No glass is broken on any of those doors.

I should also add this clue, which is a given, if you were me at the scene and as familiar with my town as I am:
The woman was clearly, not from the area. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[WMMangus]

Presumably blood smears were on the outside and doors are intact probably indicating she was looking for a way in to get help, didn't find it and took off in another direction looking for help she collapsed. Does this rear parking lot have residences adjacent or beside it, or are they all on the main street in front of the office building?

Blood on ashtray?

Any blood on or near the two parked cars in this rear lot?

Any lights on in the office building (or any other nearby buildings) other than the usual safety/security lights?

[LouLewis1967]

I missed the part about her being drunk and disoriented too.

But I still think running the tags on the cars in the lot would be something I would do. You have to establish how she got to this location, and then whether the crime occurred there, or somewhere else and she was dropped off. You have no ID on the victim, so you do not know if she is local. But finding out who she is and if she belongs there through the course of her normal activity would be something worth knowing.

One fact is missing though, who called this in? I would guess maybe a neighbor who saw or heard something beyond their back fence? Usually responding units get that info, so maybe we just have part of the facts.

[WMMangus]

What Lou said!

[WernherVonTrapp]

Correct. All blood smears are on the outside. All doors are locked and secure. The entrance to the rear lot is off a sidestreet which makes this a corner lot. There are residences all around except for the businesses already mentioned in the first post.
No blood on the ashtray.
No cars are parked in the rear lot. Cars are usually parked in the front lot, but these usually belong to local residents who use the lot after the offices are closed (9:00am to 5:00pm).
No lights on in the building, or in the office complex next door.

No one telephoned this in. It was happened upon by my sergeant who was conducting his normal patrols.

Finally she gives me a first and last name (which I must keep confidential) before slipping back out of consciousness. It's a hispanic name.

[MWolfe1963]

Oh, no hispanic cleaning ladies up north in union territory huh. I thought that was it.

Doe's sound like she tried to get in the building, possibly using the ash can, it would've been near the door and she probably drunk walked off with it not being able to bust that type of glass.

Any blood on the ash can?

It's really hard to assume she got stoned drunk by force, so she got drunk.

I doubt she needed a cigarette so bad she was stealing it, doesn't explain other clues.

It appears she was picked up probably from a bar, assaulted and dumped there, tried to get in the building, etc, but you imply a simplier explanation... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Can you tell us who reported it, that is strange, not likely someone would just happen by.

[WMMangus]

Any priors on the name?

[MWolfe1963]

You guys are posting too fast for me... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Screw you Wern, I hate teasers...

You seem to imply hispanics are rare there, is there an hispanic population there?

Did she speak english, you said you asked her name?

[LouLewis1967]

Everytime I post, Werner has added some info that wrecks my theory!

But yeah, now it seems she may have accepted a ride home from a bar and was assaulted and left there. Is there public transit on the road in front of the building? Like, she way have been so drunk she got there on her own by accident and ran into the wrong people who happened to be congregating in the parking lot. Or maybe someone was following her, waiting to commit a crime of opportunity.

[WernherVonTrapp]

No public transit at all in this area. Remember, it's an upscale town. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
This is a rough sketch of the scene and surrounding area. Maybe it'll shed more light on the scene:
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b456/archangel501/3339971d.jpg
Behind the first office building on the left is where she was found.

[WMMangus]

So far have to believe she was assualted and dumped. Check side street adjacent to parking lot for blood trail or something sharp she might have fallen on if she jumped from a moving car. Strange to be missing so many clothes though, especially shoes. Might have been asleep in one of the residences, assualted/raped by an intruder(s), escaped and ran from the building looking for help. Have to wake some people up and see if the saw or heard anthing.

[WMMangus]

Like the graphic! Got to check those residences on the other side of the side street. Can you plot location of ashtray. Beginning to look like its a non-player.

[Wolferz]

OK, sarge happened upon this unfortunate soul and called for backup.
My next step would be to snap a pic of her and canvas the nearby bars to see if she had been drinking there and whether she was with someone else. did she have a purse?
Was it dropped nearby?
What of the rest of her clothing?
Search the block for additonal clues because this sounds like an attack of some kind. The fact that she's sans warm clothing on a cold night points toward that conclusion. I've never heard of a rapist taking the time to redress a victim after the deed.
I do hope she survived to tell about it.

[WernherVonTrapp]

New Clue:
Can't run any checks on the name. It's a common name and no further info (date of birth, etc.) to check it against.
No clothes or purse nearby.
A second, more thorough check of the rear of the building reveals a stairwell at the far end of the building, leading to the front upper parking lot. There is blood on several steps near a broken window along the stairwell. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[WMMangus]

Window big enough for entry/exit? If yes, call owners of building (emergency data card on front door?) or gain entry (probable cause) and do quick search.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Roger that. Owners of the complex have been notified. They ask is there are any other signs of entry other than the broken window. An intact window blind indicates no entry gained and the owners say that they'll check it in the morning during normal business hours.

[WMMangus]

By far end do you mean end adjacent to side street or the next building to the right?

Is broken glass inside or outside the building?

[WMMangus]

Intact window blind seems to rule out escape from inside. Definitely go check out those residences.

[Wolferz]

OK, now it sounds like she may have stumbled down those stairs and fell into the window breaking the glass and cutting her arm. She continued down the stairs to the rear lot. Now looking for help. It still smacks of assault though.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by WMMangus:
By far end do you mean end adjacent to side street or the next building to the right?

Is broken glass inside or outside the building? By far end, I mean on the side facing the other office complex.
Glass is mostly on the inside, some on the outside.

[WMMangus]

Agree she likely entered the property from the front of the building, stumbled down the steps breaking the glass, got to the rear of the building, tried the back doors smearing blood on them, then headed out across the parking lot going where?

Firehouse likely has someone awake in it. Go check it out. Did she come from there or body shop next door?

[WernherVonTrapp]

Stumbling down the stairs was the conclusion I came to so far. Probably put her arm through the window during the fall. Remember, it's a long fall, about 15' (or 1.5 stories) from the upper parking lot. The Firehouse is empty (Volunteer squad only).

[WMMangus]

Empty firehouse is bad. Any clues obtained checking out front of firehouse and bodyshop. Someone dumped or jumping from a car might try there first if well lit.

If jumping from moving vehicle, said vehicle was likely moving from left to right on main street (object being to get away from whomever as quickly as possible.

Lack of clothing still makes me think she came from a nearby residence.

[WMMangus]

Any late night parties nearby?

No injuries consistent with bailing out of a moving vehicle but what if car was parked on main street or in the front lot? Anything there look out-of-place?

[MWolfe1963]

Oh geesh, hand feeding us clues, like my wife comes in and says "guess what I saw"

So it appears she was drunk, fell down some stairs after cutting herself on glass, probably a mild concussion.

She doesn't live there, naked....someone had to dump her or drop her off nearby.

The question appears to be is this a crime against her or not and the ash can somehow is telling you she got into this trouble on her own....

Obvious you know now if she was raped, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Appears she was dropped off or dumped at main road.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by WMMangus:
Empty firehouse is bad. Any clues obtained checking out front of firehouse and bodyshop. Someone dumped or jumping from a car might try there first if well lit.

If jumping from moving vehicle, said vehicle was likely moving from left to right on main street (object being to get away from whomever as quickly as possible.

Lack of clothing still makes me think she came from a nearby residence. Roger that.
Checked local businesses across the street. Upon returning, I decided to check the two cars parked in the upper lot anyway, even though they usually belong to local residents.
Upon checking the first car, a pair of jeans (leggings type) are found frozen to the rear trunk. They're so thoroughly frozen that, any attempt to remove them will tear the pants. Also, on the front hood is a half eaten bowl of rice & beans along with the victim's purse. A high heeled shoe is found in the street, just off the curb in front of the building, the other matching shoe is found beside the parked vehicle. A check of the purse contents show that she is a medical employee at a major area hospital in the aforementioned city. The ambulance arrives and takes her to the same hospital in which she works. there were no immediate, or apparent signs of sexual assault upon her departure. No reason to believe (being a hospital employee) there's a criminal record so a search is not performed.
Note: Hospital employment (around here) requires a criminal background check.

Also: The Firehouse across the street has a hall which is occasionally rented out for parties (like most volunteer houses). Those parties are always over at 12:00 midnight. The victim was found at 2:00am.

The puzzle pieces should be beginning to fall into place now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[MWolfe1963]

You're really enjoying this aren't ya Wern. You're giving us the clues backwards....

Did you say who the other car belonged?

From experience from my younger days, two lovers meet in the parking lot, eat, get drunk, have sex on the rear hood where she took her pants off. Her lover is drunk in the next car passed out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Hmm, she goes behind the building to take a pee, falls through glass, down stairs...half drunk, half knocked out she either uses the ash can to try to get in building or wants an aftersex smoke....geesh, I use to love to smoke after sex....

[WernherVonTrapp]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif The one vehicle (obviously, and upon registration check) belonged to her. The other vehicle belonged to one of the businesses inside the office complex. No other persons were at the scene. This should almost be solved now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

[WMMangus]

Wow! Presumably not her car? How'd she get there? Walking home from work? Hospital nearby?

What kind of bowl? Left-over supper or fast food take out? Fast food place nearby?

Frozen jeans: You said 24 deg. Is it or had it been raining/snowing and when did it stop? Or were they wet from something else? Soft drink? Paper cup nearby?

Purse empty or full? Robbery?

[LouLewis1967]

Oh wow. I guess you can't even get her for DWI at this point. Maybe just destruction of property for the window?

If the rice bowl is one of those convenience store warm-up things I guess you can back track all the stores between the scene and her place of work and review their tapes to see if she appeared intoxicated in the store. But is that really worth anything at this point?

Any chance she used the ash can to try to break into the building for some reason?

[MWolfe1963]

I don't know, but doe's Cel live near there? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by WMMangus:
Wow! Presumably not her car? How'd she get there? Walking home from work? Hospital nearby?

What kind of bowl? Left-over supper or fast food take out? Fast food place nearby?

Frozen jeans: You said 24 deg. Is it or had it been raining/snowing and when did it stop? Or were they wet from something else? Soft drink? Paper cup nearby?

Purse empty or full? Robbery? No rain all day, just bitter cold. The bowl was a styrofoam type with a plastic eating utensil. The Rice and beans, well, they are what they are. No soft drinks. All cash/credit cards intact. No signs of robbery. Make sure you carefully read my previous posts. The car did belong to her.

The jeans were frozen in a manner suggesting that she was seated on the top of the rear trunk.

Upon presenting these facts to the sergeant, he advises that there was a party at the firehouse earlier in the evening. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

[WMMangus]

Sorry. I was writing mine when you posted your latest info.

Check hospital workplace and see if she worked swing shift that night and who, if any, friends she might have left with.

[MWolfe1963]

Was the ash tray in the front lot near her car or in the back lot? I took your first post it was in the back lot?

[MWolfe1963]

She peed on herself why sitting freezing her pants to the hood....took off shoes and worked her way out of pants....done that drunk before myself..

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
She peed on herself why sitting freezing her pants to the hood....took off shoes and worked her way out of pants....done that drunk before myself.. That's the same conclusion I came to so far. The only deviation is the one shoe in the roadway.
Check the last sentence on my previous post.

[LouLewis1967]

Where are her car keys?

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by LouLewis1967:
Where are her car keys? In her purse. Frost on the windshield. Vehicle hasn't been started for hours.

[WMMangus]

She was at the party where they served beans and rice, had too much to drink, left with her food and decided she was in no shape to drive and wanted to wait awhile. Maybe waiting for someone to come get her. Cellphone anywhere near? Sat down on rear of car and froze her backside to it, panicked, struggled out of the jeans and in her drunken state managed to fall down some steps, breaking a window, hurting herself and passing out in the back parking lot.

I'd think body heat would be enough to keep them from freezing, even if she was semi-conscious enough to stay upright.

[MWolfe1963]

Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
She peed on herself why sitting freezing her pants to the hood....took off shoes and worked her way out of pants....done that drunk before myself.. That's the same conclusion I came to so far.
Check the last sentence on my previous post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the party explains the rest, sounds like it drifted over to that parking lot. We did ask earlier about parties.

If the ash tray was up front, they probably used it for the party that spilled into the lot, not likely they would party too much in the firehouse, get in trouble from that, but being a vol. fireman in my 20's we often had girls over.

Sounds like she was too drunk to know the party ended and hung around a lil too long.

Didn't read all the post, assume she lost her car keys while taking off pants and tried to get in building or fell or too drunk to want to drive.

[LouLewis1967]

Well, it all makes sense now. I never made the connection between a hospital worker and an ambulance crew. VFW's (at least around here) don't fight fires, but provide support and ambulance transport services. She's probably an ER nurse and knows the crew. As others have said, party, food, drunk, etc. Maybe she passed out in the car waiting to sober up and ****ed herself, and put the pants on the trunk to dry.

The one shoe in the street had me still wondering about other people being involved. I've had my share of things thrown at me by angry women, I pictured someone driving off and a shoe being directed at their car.

[WMMangus]

An enjoyable exercise. Made an otherwise dull, boring morning sitting in the pro shop watching it rain pass rather more quickly.

Have to go now. Will check back to see what really happened!

[MWolfe1963]

Well, if Wern would have told us at the beginning about drunk firefighters and nurses that would've explained everything. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

She probably got mad and threw the other shoe at a passing car or a firefighter leaving the scene.

We always have one vol. fireman at the house during nights, usually two, get a call, they drive the trucks and the rest meet at the scene.

Fire Chief probably came by and they all scattered to the wind leaving the poor girl.

Still, was the can in the front or the back, in the front it makes sense.

[MWolfe1963]

Originally posted by WMMangus:
An enjoyable exercise. Made an otherwise dull, boring morning sitting in the pro shop watching it rain pass rather more quickly.

Have to go now. Will check back to see what really happened!

Can't believe I wasted a good two hours on this.
Truth is Wern just used us to figure out the crime so he can go file his report without looking like a total idiot.

[WernherVonTrapp]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
OK, the case is solved. I had a hard time keeping timely replies but here is the scenario:

The Firehouse hall was rented out for a Christmas party, possibly by hospital employees. The party was over at 12:00 midnight, but the victim was far too drunk to even walk, let alone drive. No one wanted to take responsibility for her, yet she could not stay at the firehouse. Other party members, or possibly even the firehouse chaperone, helped to carry her across the street to her vehicle (hence the one shoe in the roadway).
Feeling that some food might help her recover, she was given a bowl of rice and placed on the rear trunk of her car, where she subsequently dozed off. Wearing only jeans and a t-shirt in such cold weather, was probably cause enough for her to urinate where, in her stupor, she then became frozen to her car. Eventually, in her seated position, she fell into a deep, drunken sleep and fell (partially) off the car, held up only by her frozen pants.

Being drunk and unable to right herself back to a seated position, she had no choice but to wriggle out of her pants, where the other shoe came off and rested beside her car.

Still too drunk to stand, the world began to spin and tilt forcing her to sway abruptly toward the stairwell which she then fell down, breaking the window along the way. Once she got to her feat, she used the building to support herself and smeared blood along the glass doors, where she also came into contact with the ashtray, using it as a support and eventually stumbling over it in the parking lot.

I suspect one of the firemen may have left her there and was looking into possible charges, but the security camera in the building (according to the detective the next day) was not in operation at the time.

In the end, she's lucky she was found. She certainly was suffering from hypothermia and would not have survived for very much longer in that bitter cold.

Thanks to you all and a group effort, the case has been solved. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

[MWolfe1963]

Well, your Vol. Firemen there certainly aren't gentlemen, we would've never left a nurse there alone drunk, ...

one of us would've took her home with us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Celeon999]

Dammit. Discovered this thread too late. Would have solved the whole case in a minute.

Was playing LA Noire recently and solved a lot of crime cases.

Naked parking lot, hispanic ashtray, frozen lady, bloody rice bowl. It was right away clear to me what must have happened. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Mucho licor no es bueno ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

You have another case for us to solve Wern ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[fireftr18]

Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
Well, your Vol. Firemen there certainly aren't gentlemen, we would've never left a nurse there alone drunk, ...

one of us would've took her home with us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Now that it's finished, I can talk now. At first, like everyone else, I suspected she was at a bar or party. Had a sexual encounter of some sort, then just dumped. The injuries on her arm were just incidental. Blood on the doors from trying to get in to get help. Interesting how it came out. Like Wern, I've seen an incredible amount of stupid from too much alcohol (and drugs). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
About those who left her, they were probably so drunk themselves they couldn't make rational decisions. If indeed, it was firefighters that left her, then they are shame on all brother firefighters. It is just wrong to leave someone like that. Firefighters take care of each other. That includes law enforcement officers, emergency medical service personnel, and emergency room personnel. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif
About her, she may be such a party drunk that everyone is tired of dealing with her. That can explain why no one wanted to give her a ride. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by fireftr18:
If indeed, it was firefighters that left her, then they are shame on all brother firefighters. It is just wrong to leave someone like that. Firefighters take care of each other. Well, to be fair, I'm not absolutely sure it was a firefighter. I should also explain that there is a history at this one particular house. We have other houses in town and I would never make such a presumption about those guys, so there is a degree of bias on my part.
The town is actually trying to close this particular house for a number of reasons. This house was once trying to hire a new member who had a criminal history. Now, that wouldn't normally bother me since I believe everybody should get a fair shake/second chance.
But, in this particular instance, the criminal history was "Arson". I happened to learn about it by a chance encounter at the house and promptly notified my superiors, who then notified the mayor.
It's all a long story, regarding this house.

[MWolfe1963]

Having known 100's of firefighters, just doesn't sound like something someone would do, maybe no one was really paying attention and she wasn't noticed, but when we had parties like that we were very careful, last thing you need on the news is drunk girl killed or died after a firefighter party, I don't suspect it would go down well.

When we had them at the station, certainly no drinking, partying, etc...I enjoyed being a Vol. for about 12 years, my best friend got on young when we first got into it, now he's about to retire at 50, full benefits and pension the rest of his life.....

[cgkstealth]

Wow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I'm away from the forum for just a few hours and look what takes place.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Oh well, still an interesting read and definitely an interesting case. By the sounds of things I'm assuming that everyone ended (or will end) up ok.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by cgkstealth:
Wow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I'm away from the forum for just a few hours and look what takes place.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Oh well, still an interesting read and definitely an interesting case. By the sounds of things I'm assuming that everyone ended (or will end) up ok. As a matter of fact, yes, she did end up OK. The detective contacted the hospital the following morning (to make sure no sexual assault occurred) and discovered that the victim was released at an early, 8:30am. Still, we're trying to contact her via the city police department to get the story from the horse's mouth. So far, she's not returning our advances.

Originally posted by Celeon999:
You have another case for us to solve Wern ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif There's always a story/case to tell. We get so many that I soon forget the details when the next event occurs. I got to post 'em when they're fresh in my mind, so I can add all the juicy details. I'm currently off duty for a few days, until the 23rd.

[WMMangus]

No doubt too embarrassed to talk about it!

[Wolferz]

So, my initial assumption panned out?
Too drunk to know what was going on.
I'm sure you have responded to many cases of people too drunk to get in out of the cold, falling down and injuring themselves, and later either dying or nearly so.
It's happened to me one time too many, so I quit drinking. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[swamprat69er]

Originally posted by Wolferz:

Too drunk to know what was going on.
I'm sure you have responded to many cases of people too drunk to get in out of the cold, falling down and injuring themselves, and later either dying or nearly so.
It's happened to me one time too many, so I quit drinking. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Been there, done that and that is exactly why I haven't gotten drunk in over 20 years. Half a dozen beers is the most I drink at any time and I never drive either the boat or my 4 wheeler after the decision to have a beer.

[MWolfe1963]

Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cgkstealth:
Wow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I'm away from the forum for just a few hours and look what takes place.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Oh well, still an interesting read and definitely an interesting case. By the sounds of things I'm assuming that everyone ended (or will end) up ok. As a matter of fact, yes, she did end up OK. The detective contacted the hospital the following morning (to make sure no sexual assault occurred) and discovered that the victim was released at an early, 8:30am. Still, we're trying to contact her via the city police department to get the story from the horse's mouth. So far, she's not returning our advances.

Originally posted by Celeon999:
You have another case for us to solve Wern ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif There's always a story/case to tell. We get so many that I soon forget the details when the next event occurs. I got to post 'em when they're fresh in my mind, so I can add all the juicy details. I'm currently off duty for a few days, until the 23rd. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heck, you breathed more forum activiity in two hours than we've had in two months...I say make it a series and make a sticky out of it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[fireftr18]

I'm sure Wernher and others can agree with me. After all we've seen from alcohol and drugs, it surprises me that any law enforcement officers, firefighters, EMT's and emergency room personnel drink like I've seen some of them do. I still have the occasional drink, but only in small quantities and nursing the drink.

[Mescator]

Bah, i make the first post, disappear for a working day, log on tonight after dinner and miss the entire case!

And just after i finished Sherlock Holmes no less, i could have been the Watson to your Heroin Wern http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

[WernherVonTrapp]

To be quite honest, I never expected the amount of interest/feedback that this thread received. It caught me by complete surprise. I had such a difficult time keeping up with the speed of the replies. I would type in one reply, only to find three more requests for more info as soon as my reply was posted. I was clearly unprepared for amount of interest this thread garnered.
I expected that I might post one, possibly two replies each day. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifNever thought it'd all be over in a matter of hours. Besides the popularity, there's my slow/poor typing skills. Heck, throw a handful of seed on a keyboard, and even a pigeon will type faster/better than I can. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

[MWolfe1963]

Yea, by the time I wrote a post and came back, several had already posted, coudn't keep up with the clues fast enough...

Maybe I should hire you to run my next production.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by fireftr18:
I'm sure Wernher and others can agree with me. After all we've seen from alcohol and drugs, it surprises me that any law enforcement officers, firefighters, EMT's and emergency room personnel drink like I've seen some of them do. I still have the occasional drink, but only in small quantities and nursing the drink. Indeed. Every call I respond to, where it turns out that alcohol is involved, it ends up being a bad incident. Every time I've ever been assaulted, the person had either been drinking or on some type of drug. Well, I was assaulted by a psychiatric patient once, but that doesn't count. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif
Anyway, in my experience, both interacting with those who have been drinking, or when I used to drink myself; alcohol is just bad news. There's no two ways about it. Even the guy who sits peacefully at home and has a few beers, ends up falling off a ladder, losing some fingers to a lawn mower or snow blower, or falls down a flight of stairs and breaks a limb. I once had a woman who completely severed three of her fingers with an electric hedge clipper while drinking vodka & orange juice (Screwdrivers). I've seen nothing good come out of drinking any spirits. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Hmmm, "spirits", interesting pseudonym that alcohol has been given.

Maybe that's why nothing ever seems to phase me, i.e., all the excitement I encounter on the job. My off-duty life is intentionally uneventful. My wife wants excitement, while all I want is peace & quiet. It's not intentional but, unless I'm talking with other cops, conversation seems to bore me. Contrastingly, I'm quite the extrovert and conversational. I can talk for hours about anything, yet with the lay-person, my tongue becomes tied or taffy twisted and I quickly lose interest in the topic. Oh well, my couch time is up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[swamprat69er]

Could it possibly be that 90% of the lay people out there, as soon as they find out you are a cop, want something from you? i.e. legal advise?
Ticket 'fix'? Crap like that. Crap that will get your job gone.....

[WernherVonTrapp]

Originally posted by swamprat69er:
Could it possibly be that 90% of the lay people out there, as soon as they find out you are a cop, want something from you? i.e. legal advise?
Ticket 'fix'? Crap like that. Crap that will get your job gone..... Funny you should mention that. I try not to tell people what I do for a living, though my endeavor to be sincere sometimes betrays me. I don't even attend family functions anymore. As soon as a relative tells someone that I'm a COP, sure enough, the person will negotiate the crowd and strike up a conversation with me.
It's a dead give-away but every time, mere minutes into the conversation, the subject will say something like: "So, you're a COP huh?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Likewise of course, the relative who betrayed me is easily discovered when I ask: "How did you know that?" Subsequently, the light of conversation immediately begins to flicker out. I couldn't even begin to list all the questions or topics that that follow the initial COP revelation. They're that numerous. So, yes, that is definitely a factor.

[fireftr18]

Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fireftr18:
I'm sure Wernher and others can agree with me. After all we've seen from alcohol and drugs, it surprises me that any law enforcement officers, firefighters, EMT's and emergency room personnel drink like I've seen some of them do. I still have the occasional drink, but only in small quantities and nursing the drink. Indeed. Every call I respond to, where it turns out that alcohol is involved, it ends up being a bad incident. Every time I've ever been assaulted, the person had either been drinking or on some type of drug. Well, I was assaulted by a psychiatric patient once, but that doesn't count. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've had the same experience. Don't forget, "I yush ha' whuhn." http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Anyway, in my experience, both interacting with those who have been drinking, or when I used to drink myself; alcohol is just bad news. There's no two ways about it. Even the guy who sits peacefully at home and has a few beers, ends up falling off a ladder, losing some fingers to a lawn mower or snow blower, or falls down a flight of stairs and breaks a limb. I once had a woman who completely severed three of her fingers with an electric hedge clipper while drinking vodka & orange juice (Screwdrivers). I've seen nothing good come out of drinking any spirits. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Hmmm, "spirits", interesting pseudonym that alcohol has been given.
Don't forget domestic violence, addiction. I've been to countless falls, alcohol related sicknesses, in home accidents. In Cincinnati, a mother was convicted in the death of her baby. She passed out and the baby fell between the bed and baseboard heater. Most of my worst calls involved alcohol and drugs. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Maybe that's why nothing ever seems to phase me, i.e., all the excitement I encounter on the job. My off-duty life is intentionally uneventful. My wife wants excitement, while all I want is peace & quiet. I feel the same way, even after 10 months of retirement. My wife is the quiet type, so that's easy, but my son likes to do things and sometimes I just want to be left alone. I recently read an article about this. It seems common with firefighters, I imagine it's the same with police officers.
It's not intentional but, unless I'm talking with other cops, conversation seems to bore me. Contrastingly, I'm quite the extrovert and conversational. I can talk for hours about anything, yet with the lay-person, my tongue becomes tied or taffy twisted and I quickly lose interest in the topic. Oh well, my couch time is up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I haven't gotten that way. I think it's the difference with the jobs. I love talking about firefighting and answering questions from the lay-person. The conversation will be different with another firefighter than with a lay-person. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif