Ability Balancing

[Cronstintein]

Just thought I'd open the floor for discussions regarding abilities and how best to balance them.

Now for me currently the best skills are morph and smoke bomb. I don't so much consider them overpowered as properly powered. I'd like the other abilities to be lifted up so as to be equally useful as these two.

Sprint - Is good at what it does but usually only nets you 100 pts so it's not super useful. My suggestion is maybe boosting the points you get for escaping a chase to 200.

Charge - Maybe I'm a dummy, I dunno, but I can't get this to do anything useful for me. I would welcome anyone's ideas as to proper usage.

Throwing Knife - Could last a bit longer but it's not terrible.

Hidden gun - Works for what it is. Same problem as sprint though, only ever going to net you 100pts.

Templar vision - Not a bad little ability, I would make it last longer though. At least twice as much.

Disguise - An elegant weapon, from a simpler time. I respect people who use this successfully. It should really be longer though. Lengthen the base by 50%
Compare 20sec of this to the infinite length of morph and you can see there's a little bit of a balancing issue.

Firecrackers - On paper seems to be a somewhat flexible offensive and defensive tool. Unfortunately fails to live up to it's potential. Defensively it never seems to do jack for me, if it doesn't already it should break target lock on affected pursuers. Offensively in my experience it doesn't do that great. I've been mildly hit a couple times where all it does is raise my brightness and clue me to run. If you're in the radius, you should be blinded. With those two additions I think it could be ok. Maybe increase the radius by 20% as well but that's not as crucial.

I haven't unlocked the last couple so I have no comment regarding those. Feel free to add your suggestions or critique mine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Rainie]

I think the abilities are pretty balanced already, but they only work when the player uses them properly. There is timing is key and if the skills aren't used at the right time they become useless.

For the hidden gun; your points can go anywhere from 100 to 300 (without any killstreak bonuses) depending on if you get your target just walking or if they are jumping in mid-air at the time. If I can, I wait for them to jump off a building and get the +200 midair bonus

For Charge; if you notice your pursuer early on you can use charge to run at them and use stun before they can kill you, so it's pretty handy.

My fave abilities right now are smokebomb, hidden gun, mute and decoy. I'll usually end up using some sort of combo of those. I don't like using morph or discuss because I think it makes you too noticeable, that's my feeling about them I know others will disagree

[Wile E Coyoteee]

DISGUISE
________

I don't have morph yet, but I honestly think I'd prefer to use disguise for 5 reasons. 1: When blending with a crowd, I notice alot of the time the game naturally makes you move to the back of it. Anyone who's impatient will just stab the first thing infront of them - which is you, since you're at the back and that's usually where they come from.

2: Someone's going to follow you in morph for a long time cause they know you're one of the group, and they're waiting for you to break off or make some kind of mistake to differentiate yourself from the others. That's time you could otherwise be going after your target. Infact, if you know that someone in that current game is using morph, you're going to be attracted to crowds that have a high population of that character and wait it out. It actually draws attention sometimes.

3: If you enter a crowd with only 1 npc that looks like you, and you disguise? The other guy will stab that npc 100% of the time and you can move on faster [see #2]. The "best ever" scenario here is if you know your pursuer is behind you somewhere, and you see a crowd infront of you going around a corner that has 1 npc like you. Purposely dash ahead into that crowd and morph and he'll run up there asap to stab the npc, it's hilarious!

4: I use smoke bombs or firecrackers as a secondary, so, in relation to 3, if someone's trailing behind you a decent way, and your disguise runs out? Again, he's either going to run at the crowd, or nut himself because he knows which one you are now. All you have to do is keep the camera behind you wait till you see the guy not moving like an NPC; that's your pursuer. When he gets close, smoke bomb and punch him in the face for an easy 200points! Or throw crackers, run a couple steps, turn, then stun him as he goes to run by you assuming you ran straight lol. It's 50x more humiliating than a smoke bomb!


5: Offense. If you feel judging by your target's movements that he knows who you are, or you're scared that you ran or jogged too close to him in such a way that he's at least cautious that you might be after him instead of someone else.. Then it's best to go behind a fruit stand or something and disguise yourself and then come back out, because he's not gonna be looking for the a different character.

FIRECRACKERS
________

I'm expermienting with these more, and they do help on the super crowded maps where sometimes crowds collide. If you think your target has spotted you already, sometimes you can catch them off-guard by running at them and throwing the crackers, prompting them to run just like you said. If you do it right they'll hopefully be blinded enough to run into a wall or plow into a crowd, which will give you time to kill them, and while it's only 100-150 points that way, it's better than getting shanked by your pursuer while stalking him, or losing him entirely. I notice when you're on roofs the crackers are nice too, because your pursuer will now run into the roof edges while trying to hit you, and even if he does jump the roof? Cool, you just got away for free. Not to mention it's hilarious when you get behind him and donkey-punch him off the rooftop, hahah.

Is it as effective as a smoke bomb? I don't know yet, I need more time with it. One good thing is that it does recharge faster though, which can definately come in handy! There's that one ability that divides recharge time later on too, and if it works by how many seconds each ability has, crackers are the lowest recharge time in the game I think?

Oh, not to mention with crowd dispersal, there's more of a chance that the crowd will get in your pursuer's way unlike a smoke bomb.

Idk, like I said I need more time with it but I'll be testing it out some more!

[Cronstintein]

Disguise - I agree it has some advantages over morph. You don't think it's too short though?

fireworks - I still need to experiment more with this. Seems much worse than smoke on defense but has more offensive abilities so this may be balanced.

charge - if running at your pursuer is the only use for it, it's weak. You can easily be sidestepped while charging. Takes even more time than smoke to get off since you have to face him first and it's slow to start. Overall it's my least favorite ability.

[DeafAtheist]

I mostly use disguise instead of morph. One reason why is because of rooftop runners. If my target is running around on rooftops forcing me to climb it to assassinate him with morph I'm going to look like myself and whoever is targeting me is going to see me obviously climbing and follow. But if I look like someone else there's a chance I could get up there and assassinate my target before my own pursuer(s) realize who I am.

Another reason why I prefer disguise is because morph requires you to be around other NPCs. Disguise is more effective when you don't have any NPCs for cover. With the large percentage of runners in the game who are impatient more often than not they'll kill someone who looks like you who is nearby.

The drawback to disguise tho of course is risk of being seen transforming into the disguise or being seen when it wears off giving yourself away.

Charge is a very effective ability if used right, but unfortunately sometimes it can miss especially when using it defensively. But it works like a charm to use it offensively at a morphed or disguised target hiding in a crowd. It eliminates the chance of being stunned because it doesn't give them a chance to deploy a smoke bomb or mute you. Charge also has the ability to cancel the effects of the throwing knife slowing you down.

Mute works well too since it prevents pursuers from using their abilities. The only weakness to it is the short range and it it only effects whoever may be in the area at the time of activation. Unlike a smoke bomb that remains in effect for a brief period of time that can slow down another pursuer behind the one you used it on. Mute would not effect a 2nd pursuer behind the 1st one the way a smoke bomb could.

Sprint is really only good for escaping pursuers or catching up to someone you're chasing, but the way I play is I try to avoid high profile kills and I try to prevent being chased by attempting a stun. So I don't use it. But it does cancel the effect of a throwing knife.

Throwing knives are pretty much only good for slowing down someone you're chasing or preventing your target from climbing a wall. But like I said I try to avoid high profile kills so I don't really have a lot of need for slowing a target down.

The hidden gun I don't much like either. Low points for it and it leaves you exposed while you're lining up a shot it paints a bullseye on your back for those pursuing you.

I don't find firecrackers very useful.

Templar Vision is nice but I prefer Charge. It's got that extra surprise factor on targets who are hiding in a crowd and waiting for a confused pursuer to stun when suddenly you rush in and kill them before they can react. The same for pursuers. It's funny when you see someone obviously following you but trying to remain inconspicuous and you just turn around and charge stun them. It's especially effective against runners because they're constantly in high profile and give themselves away with the bright red marker glowing over their heads. You just face them and charge stunning them before they can kill you. It's a beautiful thing.

I've tried using Decoy too, but I honestly don't know how effective it is because your Decoy takes off running and I don't see it effect the pursuer. I guess I'd have a better opinion on it if someone used a Decoy on me but that hasn't happened yet.

[G0DFATHER06]

Decoy is used best when paired with Morph or when you have some NPC that looks like you around you..All you do is when you see your pursuer you target the NPC that looks like you and is around you and it runs off making it look like it is you running and they attack it and lose the contract..One of my favorite abilities

[Eavath]

My favorite skill set up I have now is disguise/morph. I use both offensively and defensively. I'll find a somewhat smaller sized groud (3-4) and morph them all. I've gotten many stuns and hidden kills from doing this, and I always make sure that I try to stay towards the middle of the group.

Disguise I'll use if say I find a smaller group, but morph is in cool down. I'll only do it, though, if there isn't any other persona that looks like me. I dunno about everyone else, but if there's a group of 2 and one persona looks like my target, I'll go for the other one.

Also, offensively, if I see a group of multiples of my target, I'll go to the edge so my compass is lit up, and then morph the group, exposing my target ^^

[ghostoftheunion]

Flash is one of my favorites Blind your attacker and move out the way quickly and alot of time they kill the wrong person. or allow you to get a stun. Templar vision will also reveal attackers in a crowd super usefull to reveal your target then quickly scan for attackers before making your kill.

When you morph dont stand in the crowed of people you morphed sit on a bench or in a haystack near by more often then not they kill someone in the crowed.

[MtnDewAssassin]

I like to use smokebomb and gun because it's offense and defense.

[DeafAtheist]

Originally posted by ghostoftheunion:
Flash is one of my favorites Blind your attacker and move out the way quickly and alot of time they kill the wrong person. or allow you to get a stun. Templar vision will also reveal attackers in a crowd super usefull to reveal your target then quickly scan for attackers before making your kill.

When you morph dont stand in the crowed of people you morphed sit on a bench or in a haystack near by more often then not they kill someone in the crowed.


Haystacks aren't effective hiding places because the assassination button hovers over the top of it so you know someone is in there and NPCs don't jump in hay so an observant attacker would notice you were in there. Only an impulsive attacker would go for someone in the crowd missing the hay. Benches are a better hiding places because NPCs use them too. I only use hay for leaps of faith and escapes when I'm far enough away from my pursuer to get a fast cooldown.

[Cronstintein]

Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
Charge is a very effective ability if used right, but unfortunately sometimes it can miss especially when using it defensively. But it works like a charm to use it offensively at a morphed or disguised target hiding in a crowd. It eliminates the chance of being stunned because it doesn't give them a chance to deploy a smoke bomb or mute you. Charge also has the ability to cancel the effects of the throwing knife slowing you down.

Templar Vision is nice but I prefer Charge. It's got that extra surprise factor on targets who are hiding in a crowd and waiting for a confused pursuer to stun when suddenly you rush in and kill them before they can react. The same for pursuers. It's funny when you see someone obviously following you but trying to remain inconspicuous and you just turn around and charge stun them. It's especially effective against runners because they're constantly in high profile and give themselves away with the bright red marker glowing over their heads. You just face them and charge stunning them before they can kill you. It's a beautiful thing.


Hey thanks for this, I'm going to go try it again. I want to get get at least ONE stun with it before hanging it up to pasture.



Mute works well too since it prevents pursuers from using their abilities. The only weakness to it is the short range and it it only effects whoever may be in the area at the time of activation. Unlike a smoke bomb that remains in effect for a brief period of time that can slow down another pursuer behind the one you used it on. Mute would not effect a 2nd pursuer behind the 1st one the way a smoke bomb could.

I've tried using Decoy too, but I honestly don't know how effective it is because your Decoy takes off running and I don't see it effect the pursuer. I guess I'd have a better opinion on it if someone used a Decoy on me but that hasn't happened yet.


Unlocked mute and decoy today and made a test build with both of them. Did REALLY well but the opponents might have been slightly sub-par. The decoy worked much better than I expected, going around a stall and using it when I heard whispers was very effective. At least for 3-4 matches then people started to get wise http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I'm very curious as to whether it fools the compass and the LT icon above the decoy when it runs by. If it doesn't, it should.

I like mute. Takes a few misses to get the timing right but it's a guaranteed stun when you're on. I might even prefer it to smoke bomb. The problem is it's cooldown.




I don't find firecrackers very useful.


Me. Neither. I'm pretty sure I've done more stuns than actually got killed when people use it on me. It should disable stunning for the duration or something because right now it sucks offensively and defensively. I guess it does show who's an npc but vision does the same without tipping your hand.

[Justin125]

The only abilities I use are my beloved smoke bombs and and charge...I'm very defensive...I kill my targets by running towardws their location while out of sight and then I walk by them incognito or in a group to get the most out of my kill...and I charge my pursuers to stun them or use a long lasting smoke bomb to take them out and any other pursuer that may jump into my smoke thinking it doesn't last long... I get most of my wins for stunning all the time.

[Eavath]

I dunno if it's just me, or yeah... But every now and then I'll see a glowing figure, and I know I won't be able to run, I'll give them the kill, but when it shows how many ponits they got, it says that they found me using templar vision... Does templar vision make the user glow like that? Or is it just something weird?

[TempleO]

Originally posted by Eavath:
I dunno if it's just me, or yeah... But every now and then I'll see a glowing figure, and I know I won't be able to run, I'll give them the kill, but when it shows how many ponits they got, it says that they found me using templar vision... Does templar vision make the user glow like that? Or is it just something weird?

That is in fact Templar Vision. The glow's a dead giveaway and a sign that you probably need to do something as soon as you see it. I've gotten quite a few stuns and escapes thanks to that glow.

[Justin125]

Well you know you can make it so the abilities last longer by completing step 3 of a certain challenge...I have it for smoke bomb and charge..I can use them quicker and they last longer.

[Eavath]

Originally posted by TempleO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Eavath:
I dunno if it's just me, or yeah... But every now and then I'll see a glowing figure, and I know I won't be able to run, I'll give them the kill, but when it shows how many ponits they got, it says that they found me using templar vision... Does templar vision make the user glow like that? Or is it just something weird?

That is in fact Templar Vision. The glow's a dead giveaway and a sign that you probably need to do something as soon as you see it. I've gotten quite a few stuns and escapes thanks to that glow. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I guess I'm not gonna use Templar Vision then x_x I guess that does balance it out though. I think I'll stick with my disguise/morph till I find something I really like lol

[Cronstintein]

Oh it's the vision causing that glow? Good to know! I thought it was glitching, heh.

I find the vision pretty much required on Advanced Wanted. With the weaker compass and nobody running around like idiots it's a lot harder to pick out your targets. Plus it's the only way you'll see the baddies coming!

EDIT: regarding the challenge comment. Yes that's true some are unlocked this way (I have the longer smoke). But it's longer OR faster recharge not both, yeah? And I'm talking about the base values before modified by the advanced versions. Though I understand your point about not fully judging an ability before you've tasted it's best version. (That said, I still think firecrackers/charge need work)

[duTiFul]

what no praise on poison yet?

psh. I'm loving poison/smoke bomb. just slip in and out of crowds, nail people with poisons, easy 800-1000 pts every time. Add to that the x2 lost target death streak, and you can rack up some serious points REAL fast.

I actually wouldn't be surprised to see them nerf the poison bonus from +200 to +100.

Other than poison though, decoy works great with morph like someone else said earlier. Sit on a bench opposite the morph crowd, and then send one running when they go to investigate.

[Xkorpio_769]

Hello. In response.



CHARGE - It is both for offense and defensive uses. If your target is in a huge crowd with duplicates of his or herself, then use charge. Kill him without having to think. If you know your pursuer is in front of you, ******ed acts and whatnot, use charge. stun him straight. He wouldn't even have time to run left or right.

TEMPLAR VISION - One reason why they did not lengthen the duration of the TEMPLAR VISION is because if it was too long, the user would be invincible. He would know what would be coming to him, and where his targets will be. That's why only use it in big areas, boosting it's use to the fullest. It can also be used to identify targets hidden in morph/ disguise/ decoy.

DISGUISE - If they made DISGUISE twice as long, you could be invincible. Morph is infinite, makes the mind work as it duplicates yourself. For DISGUISE, you can hide in a crowd with 2 duplicates of yourself, and use DISGUISE, then when a pursuer comes, he'll kill either one. Quite useful, especially when in a CHASE. Hide in a crowd with one copy of yourself, pursuer comes, kills the other copy, earn LURE 100 SCORE and escape, 100 SCORE. Making it 200. Sweet eh?

FIRECRACKERS - Very useful if used in succession and smartly. Firecrackers can be used to differentiate your target from the crowd, if they have MORPHED it, or used a DISGUISE.( you would wonder what is wrong with your compass) I don't normally use it when being chased. I use SMOKE BOMB, and my pursuer gets caught in the SMOKE, I stun em. It also makes the affected person looks ******ed and like a fool as they mostly run straight at walls, even at the restricted area. lol.

DECOY - I haven't heard you mentioning anything about DECOY, so I guess you haven't unlocked them yet. DECOY is extremely useful at some points, to cut down your pursuers from 3/2 to 2/1. Having lesser pursuers, easier mind.

[Xkorpio_769]

Originally posted by Justin125:
The only abilities I use are my beloved smoke bombs and and charge...I'm very defensive...I kill my targets by running towardws their location while out of sight and then I walk by them incognito or in a group to get the most out of my kill...and I charge my pursuers to stun them or use a long lasting smoke bomb to take them out and any other pursuer that may jump into my smoke thinking it doesn't last long... I get most of my wins for stunning all the time.


TEMPLAR VISION AND CHARGE makes the user glow with light. CHARGE makes them glow and they shove. TEMPLAR VISION is just glowing. So when you've got a pursuer, and there's this glow, then run. Or for me, SMOKE BOMB.

[Cronstintein]

Firecracker - After playing a bit more, firecrackers isn't BAD it's just not great. The problem with using it to find your target is it causes them to run... so you get your 100pts but it's less than ideal.
If you're going to use it in defense make sure you have npcs beside you because it removes their target lock on you.

Disguise - well to be fair I said raise it by 50% not double it. It's ok to end a chase but I find if I have room I get away. If I don't, I die so fast a disguise isn't going to help. The only time I really use this is when I'm near-target and don't want to get jumped while I make my approach for poison. The problem is I still fall out of disguise before getting there half the time :/ 20sec at walking pace doesn't get you that far.

charge - I still need to try this some more because on paper it sounds like a flexible move.

Decoy - ok. When it works it makes you feel like a tactical genius but, for me at least, it's got a low% chance. It would be better if it had the "LT" icon above the head and effected the compass. Doesn't fool smart hunters.

Poison - I think it's balanced. +200 is sweet but it runs the risk of someone poaching your kill and you need to get real tight. I like it but only in lobbies with a lot of stealthy players.

[xCr0wnedNorris]

Decoy is an excellent ability when combined with Morph. I think the reason you don't have much success with Firecracker is because you're using it as a defense mechanism. Firecracker is a detection tool that makes your target stand out, and also blinds them.

[obliviondoll]

Originally posted by DeafAtheist:
Haystacks aren't effective hiding places because the assassination button hovers over the top of it so you know someone is in there and NPCs don't jump in hay so an observant attacker would notice you were in there. Only an impulsive attacker would go for someone in the crowd missing the hay. Benches are a better hiding places because NPCs use them too. I only use hay for leaps of faith and escapes when I'm far enough away from my pursuer to get a fast cooldown.
The square is there whether your target's in the haystack or not.

If there's a haystack and a nearby group of NPCs that are in the right place to possibly be my target, I'll go haystack first, though, because it doesn't lose your contract to aim for the haystack when you're wrong.

It does give you away as their pursuer though, and expose you to any possible hunters who are after you.

EDIT: best use for disguise is team games. Nobody expects the barber to kill them when the other team are harlequins.

[E-Zekiel]

I got a 550 gun kill earlier. It's all about timing.

(midair + revenge + hidden I think were all my bonuses...)


Also. Disguise has way more uses than people give it credit for. I'm just saying. I always keep it on me for a reason http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(*cough*there'saguythatlookslikeacharacterinmycrow d...*cough*whatdoIdo...HINTHINT*cough*)

[obliviondoll]

Used properly, every ability has its advantages.

Used badly, any ability can appear useless.

Used well against a player who doesn't know how to counter it, any ability in the game may appear overpowered.

I've had someone shoot me and get midair + greater variety bonuses and that made for a nasty "HOW?!?" moment for me when I saw the score he got for the kill. I was mostly annoyed because it was the only time I climbed anything in the whole match.

[E-Zekiel]

Lmao, yeah. Everytime someone gets a gun kill on me for more than 200 points, I'm like ffffffffffffffffffffffffff.