"Variety" gives lukewarm pass to "Valkyrie"

[leitmotiv]

http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&ju...eviewid=VE1117939192 (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&jump=review&id=film&reviewid=VE1117939192)

[tagTaken2]

I had no interest in this until I saw the preview the other night...

WOW


Of course, that's why they make previews, (and tend to have several different edits depending on the main feature) but it looked orsom.
Cruise can act, I'm sure I've seen him do it a couple of times in the past, I'm just hoping he remembers to do it for this one.

[Divine-Wind]

Meh, not too interested in this. I mean yes, it was an important event, but I'm not going to get too excited over another Hollywood "historical."

I mean come on, it's not even in German, Um Gottes willen!

[Breeze147]

I love the start of a movie thread. All of the characters from "The Big Bang Theory" will now come crawling out of the woodwork over the course of the next 15 pages until it gets locked.

http://www.poptower.com/images/db/2183/420/300/the-big-bang-theory.jpg

[ultraHun]

Originally posted by leitmotiv:
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&ju...eviewid=VE1117939192 (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&jump=review&id=film&reviewid=VE1117939192)

Summary: As good as it can get, but we (Variety) do not want to support it because it is about the Nazi Stauffenberg played by the psycho Cruise.

July 20th is by now a timeless story (at least in Germany) just like the Nibelungs, Red-Cappy, and the Red Baron. It will be interesteing to see how it is brought to the cinema this time.

[Blood_Splat]

I wonder how it ends? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

[leitmotiv]

Originally posted by ultraHun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&ju...eviewid=VE1117939192 (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&jump=review&id=film&reviewid=VE1117939192)

Summary: As good as it can get, but we (Variety) do not want to support it because it is about the Nazi Stauffenberg played by the psycho Cruise.

July 20th is by now a timeless story (at least in Germany) just like the Nibelungs, Red-Cappy, and the Red Baron. It will be interesteing to see how it is brought to the cinema this time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the objections were simply that it is not a very good suspense film. The world audience could care less about the history, and suspense is what sells. German history mediated through Hollywood is, well, like American history mediated through Hollywood---to be regarded with extreme suspicion.

[ultraHun]

Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I think the objections were simply that it is not a very good suspense film.

That's the as good as it can get part. The other part is "modern viewers who might wonder why they should emotionally indulge Nazi authority figures" (which S. was not while yet his early Nazi affiliations seem to be skipped in the film) and "Cruise makes Stauffenberg a stalwart, flawed and honorable man, but reveals little sense of his stellar intellectual, artistic and family background." which is not C.'s fault but the storybook.

To me it just seems that Hollywood just does not like morally ambiguous protagonists. His sister-in-law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melitta_Schenk_Gr%C3%A4fin_von_Stauffenberg) would be Hollywood's ultimate challenge.

[leitmotiv]

Originally posted by ultraHun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I think the objections were simply that it is not a very good suspense film.

That's the as good as it can get part. The other part is "modern viewers who might wonder why they should emotionally indulge Nazi authority figures" (which S. was not while yet his early Nazi affiliations seem to be skipped in the film) and "Cruise makes Stauffenberg a stalwart, flawed and honorable man, but reveals little sense of his stellar intellectual, artistic and family background." which is not C.'s fault but the storybook.

To me it just seems that Hollywood just does not like morally ambiguous protagonists. His sister-in-law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melitta_Schenk_Gr%C3%A4fin_von_Stauffenberg) would be Hollywood's ultimate challenge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

O you are sooooooo right---unless it is done in such an overblown, pretentious, "arty", and heavy-handed way, like the current, extremely silly DARK KNIGHT Batman film. Yes, you are right, even a Prussian aristocrat intellectual/aesthete, like v. Stauffenberg is too hot a potato for Hollywood to handle. A pity. The real story of 20 July remains for the Germans to do because they have an audience which can handle ambiguity. The true story of the plot contains so many mixed motives, so many classic European personalities, so many political objectives, and so many different types from the very idealistic v. Stauffenberg to to the Nazi henchman Sepp Dietrich (who said he would support the coup) it could only be done well by a German director. If only Fassbinder were still alive! I am currently watching BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ. Now this is a film!

[DrHerb]

Originally posted by Blood_Splat:
I wonder how it ends? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

He gets to nail Kelly McGillis! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

[VMF-214_HaVoK]

I will just download it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

[Divine-Wind]

Originally posted by DrHerb:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blood_Splat:
I wonder how it ends? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

He gets to nail Kelly McGillis! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
ROFL

[jarink]

Originally posted by leitmotiv:
German history mediated through Hollywood is, well, like American history mediated through Hollywood---to be regarded with extreme suspicion.

+1


Originally posted by leitmotiv:
...it could only be done well by a German director. If only Fassbinder were still alive! I am currently watching BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ. Now this is a film!

A good example of this phenomenon would be to compare "DAS BOOT" with "U-571".
(we really could use a "puking" smiley)

[deepo_HP]

Originally posted by leitmotiv:
... even a Prussian aristocrat intellectual/aesthete, like v. Stauffenberg

he was not prussian.

[leitmotiv]

Whoops! Correction: Swabian.

[deepo_HP]

yep http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

although it probably doesn't matter much, considering the restricted gene-pool of european aristocats

[leitmotiv]

My maternal line is derived from Swedish aristocracy, and, you are right, we are crazy as loons.

[Divine-Wind]

Originally posted by jarink:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
German history mediated through Hollywood is, well, like American history mediated through Hollywood---to be regarded with extreme suspicion.

+1


Originally posted by leitmotiv:
...it could only be done well by a German director. If only Fassbinder were still alive! I am currently watching BERLIN ALEXANDERPLATZ. Now this is a film!

A good example of this phenomenon would be to compare "DAS BOOT" with "U-571".
(we really could use a "puking" smiley) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never seen Das Boot, but man, U-571... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[leitmotiv]

Hollywood:

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/president_to_face_down_monster

[I_KG100_Prien]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The Onion always delivers.

[leitmotiv]

Yep!

[Copperhead311th]

Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Meh, not too interested in this. I mean yes, it was an important event, but I'm not going to get too excited over another Hollywood "historical."

I mean come on, it's not even in German, Um Gottes willen!

Well that may be that becuase it's an Americian film about a German event, filmed for American movie goers, whom the majority of which don't speak German. Not becuse none of them don't desire to speak it....it's just that Germany isn't right next door. there is an ocean involed dontcha know.
Europieans tend to look down on us and think us stupid and uneducated becuse we're a primeraly a singular language society. We truly have no need for a multi lingual society. The only two langauges spoken on our contnentant (other than English) is French and Spanish. Every other is pointless. And even french is useless unless your in Canada or Southern Louisiana. Spanish is the only true langauge spoken with any relvance. We just don't have a need for it.
Somthing ppl over there fail to understand.

[Divine-Wind]

Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Meh, not too interested in this. I mean yes, it was an important event, but I'm not going to get too excited over another Hollywood "historical."

I mean come on, it's not even in German, Um Gottes willen!

Well that may be that becuase it's an Americian film about a German event, filmed for American movie goers, whom the majority of which don't speak German. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Subtitles. If you're going to make an historical film, maybe it would help to make it.... Historical. I haven't seen it, so I don't know how true to life it is, but it's all in the details. I'm guessing that the Hitler and his advisors didn't go around discussing their plans in perfect english? (Or fake German accents...)

Ah well. I guess that's why foreign directors were invented. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

[jarink]

Originally posted by Copperhead311th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Meh, not too interested in this. I mean yes, it was an important event, but I'm not going to get too excited over another Hollywood "historical."

I mean come on, it's not even in German, Um Gottes willen!

Well that may be that becuase it's an Americian film about a German event, filmed for American movie goers, whom the majority of which don't speak German. Not becuse none of them don't desire to speak it....it's just that Germany isn't right next door. there is an ocean involed dontcha know.
Europieans tend to look down on us and think us stupid and uneducated becuse we're a primeraly a singular language society. We truly have no need for a multi lingual society. The only two langauges spoken on our contnentant (other than English) is French and Spanish. Every other is pointless. And even french is useless unless your in Canada or Southern Louisiana. Spanish is the only true langauge spoken with any relvance. We just don't have a need for it.
Somthing ppl over there fail to understand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" was filmed entirely in 'other' languages and yet did extremely well at the US box office. "Das Boot" was also released here in German and English (I'm pretty sure the subtitled version came first?) and did rather well (including 6 Oscar nominations).

Language can play some part in a film's popularity, but in this case, I think it's a non-issue. More of an issue is Tom Cruise's current image (and all the problems it brings with it) and Hollywood's well-earned reputation for screwing up 'historical' movies.

[leitmotiv]

I suspect what caused the trouble was that the film was sold as a big-budget suspense film with an A-list cast. This pretty much dooms anything unless you are wanting to do yet another Bourne film or a Mission Impossible. In a perfect world it would have been done by a seasoned director as a tragedy, in the classic sense (v. Stauffenberg wasn't the man for the job, the Army generals who wanted a coup were incompetent, or total reactionaries themselves unlikely to get a peace, or torn apart by their ambitions, loyalties, and fears). This really needed to be done by a genius, but it was done by journeyman Hollywood types. I'll see it but I'm sure I'll like the popcorn more than the film. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolper documentary-style film done about the plot ca. 1965 is far better.

[Badsight-]

Originally posted by jarink:
and Hollywood's well-earned reputation cannot agree more

[DuxCorvan]

Guys, you'll enjoy when Stauffenberg breaks into the bunker with a MG under his left armpit and a grenade launcher installed in his prosthetic arm, wrecking havoc among the nazi zombies there.

The final fight over the lava pit against Hitler, with hammers and spears, is also great, though it is sad when Tom dies after Himmler creeps onto him and stabs him in the back. Lucky that he manages to break Hitler's magic medallion before dying, thus dooming the Reich to defeat:

-"Nooooooooo!!!! (see the medallion exploding in flames)"
-"Your days are coming to an end, you loony son-of-a-b*tch! Johnny, tell Brenda I love her! (dies)"
(Johnny the American sidekick flees in a P-51 Tank Buster).

But it's all OK, because it's an adaptation of a Miller's comic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Divine-Wind]

Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Guys, you'll enjoy when Stauffenberg breaks into the bunker with a MG under his left armpit and a grenade launcher installed in his prosthetic arm, wrecking havoc among the nazi zombies there.

The final fight over the lava pit against Hitler, with hammers and spears, is also great, though it is sad when Tom dies after Himmler creeps onto him and stabs him in the back. Lucky that he manages to break Hitler's magic medallion before dying, thus dooming the Reich to defeat:

-"Nooooooooo!!!! (see the medallion exploding in flames)"
-"Your days are coming to an end, you loony son-of-a-b*tch! Johnny, tell Brenda I love her! (dies)"
(Johnny the American sidekick flees in a P-51 Tank Buster).

But it's all OK, because it's an adaptation of a Miller's comic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
lol


Actually I'm kind of looking forward to The Spirit.

[Friendly_flyer]

Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Guys, you'll enjoy when Stauffenberg breaks into the bunker with a MG under his left armpit and a grenade launcher installed in his prosthetic arm, wrecking havoc among the nazi zombies there.


They are way ahead of you, Dux:

Nazis on the Moon (Finnish):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KEueJnsu80

Nazi-zombies makes for a bad Easter holiday (Norwegian):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnWjbz6dRpU

[Kurfurst__]

Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Never seen Das Boot...

Fetch me musket. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[DuxCorvan]

http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=SCVc5TaPpe8

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[I_KG100_Prien]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

The funny... it hurts...

[Blutarski2004]

Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I suspect what caused the trouble was that the film was sold as a big-budget suspense film with an A-list cast. This pretty much dooms anything unless you are wanting to do yet another Bourne film or a Mission Impossible. In a perfect world it would have been done by a seasoned director as a tragedy, in the classic sense (v. Stauffenberg wasn't the man for the job, the Army generals who wanted a coup were incompetent, or total reactionaries themselves unlikely to get a peace, or torn apart by their ambitions, loyalties, and fears). This really needed to be done by a genius, but it was done by journeyman Hollywood types. I'll see it but I'm sure I'll like the popcorn more than the film. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolper documentary-style film done about the plot ca. 1965 is far better.


..... Perhaps Tom should have titled this film as "Risky Business II".

[leitmotiv]

Word is there are frantic last minute fixes being made. Apparently, Cruise's "German accent" has some viewers falling out of their seats with gales of laughter. Maybe they should change the title to "A Bridge Too Far"?

[MB_Avro_UK]

Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
Never seen Das Boot...

Fetch me musket. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep..a heretic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[DuxCorvan]

Originally posted by Blutarski2004:
..... Perhaps Tom should have titled this film as "Risky Business II".

No Rebecca DeMornay t¡ts, no business for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif