The snake-cam...........

[Real720]

I hope that the snake-cam won't be as cheap as the heartbeat sensor from Lockdown. Also, this tool should only be available in the easier difficulties.

[Real720]

I hope that the snake-cam won't be as cheap as the heartbeat sensor from Lockdown. Also, this tool should only be available in the easier difficulties.

[RawKryptonite]

I think you're talking about the heartbeat scanner in LD. That was actually in the book, so I'd like to see that back. Not on your screen maybe, but on a handheld monitor would be great. I don't like for difficulty to be increased by being handicapped, I'd rather they just stepped up the AI and number of enemies to create harder difficulty levels. Make it so you HAVE to use all of your tools to be successful, not take them away. Just my 2â¢

I think the snakecam will be great, it's a next gen version of the optic cam from Splinter Cell. Good for slowing down the pace and encouraging playing slower and smarter.

[Choke_A_Smurf]

New game, new tactics to win. I say leave it in.

[crociato1985]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I hope that the snake-cam won't be as cheap as the heartbeat sensor from Lockdown. Also, this tool should only be available in the easier difficulties. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Personally I think that the new "under door camera" (snake-cam) is absolutely realistic, funny & in general one of the the best new idea so I hope that it will be useable in all difficult setting (especially in the harder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif).

P.S. the heartbeat sensor from Lockdown sucks (like Lockdown)

[crociato1985]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't like for difficulty to be increased by being handicapped, I'd rather they just stepped up the AI and number of enemies to create harder difficulty levels. Make it so you HAVE to use all of your tools to be successful, not take them away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100% AGREE, I really hope that UBI listen this one: please put a lot of enemies (intelligent enemies) so the game will be CHALLENGING!

[Daishi6]

If this game goes the way we want it to, ala... Team based, communication based, shoot-move-communicate, the snake cam will become an integral portion of this title. Just think, if it only comes in one particular kit, that player is going to be indispensible to the completion of the mission and providing the intel to reach the objective. I'm for anything that slows down OPTEMPO and forces communication/teamwork.

Remember those guys hiding in the toilet at Airport? Those days will be long gone. I hope all this comes to fruition. I really want my Rainbow back.

[Shishkarob]

SWAT teams all over the united states use snake cams, so of corse they should keep it in.

[Real720]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shishkarob:
SWAT teams all over the united states use snake cams, so of corse they should keep it in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you're right, but they should at least take it out from multiplayer for obvious reasons.

[Daishi6]

Along with what I said earlier... This can only add to the suspense and online experience for this title.

All this speculation does is fuel the imagination and build an imaginary title that can live up to no one's expectations.

[RawKryptonite]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shishkarob:
SWAT teams all over the united states use snake cams, so of corse they should keep it in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you're right, but they should at least take it out from multiplayer for obvious reasons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why take it out of MP? The best MP experience, to me, would be one side playing the team and the other playing the group of terrorists. Not just everyone running stupid gunning each other down--like in pretty much every other online MP game. Use online players to simulate the situations in the SP game.
Give the team the snake cam and their same tools. Give the terrorists trip wire grenades to put out, hostages and control of the security cameras. That way BOTH sides have special tools, and MP can become something more than just too fast paced run & gun action.

[Real720]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RawKryptonite:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shishkarob:
SWAT teams all over the united states use snake cams, so of corse they should keep it in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you're right, but they should at least take it out from multiplayer for obvious reasons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why take it out of MP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Camping......

[GSG_9_Rage]

it would be fair if you could see the camera on the other side. then you could shoot through the door and kill 'em.

[RawKryptonite]

Gadgets work fine in Chaos Theory in VS. mode. Both sides have advantages, so it's still even. Much better than just running around with a gun and grenade like every other shooter. Just because the spy has a sticky cam, doesn't matter since the merc's also have the tracking devices. Checks and balances like that in this game would take it to another level, IMO.

What if the team has the snake cam, but the terrorist team has a trip wire grenades they can put on the door, forcing the team to go slowly to disarm it? Or the terrorists have control of the security cameras where they're holed up? There's a lot that could be done. Just have to leave behind the idea of having every member on each team being the same. Make the teams equally powerful but distinctly different. Team vs terrorists is the way to take this game. Give both gadgets so they're both fun.

[Real720]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
it would be fair if you could see the camera on the other side. then you could shoot through the door and kill 'em. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It would still be much faster for the one who's using the snake cam to spot an enemy on the other side of the door than for the enemy to spot the snake cam.

So basically, the one who's using the snake cam can easily spot the enemy, quickly open the door, and eliminate the enemy.

[GSG_9_Rage]

if they can take it out lightning fast, then yes. but if if the player can take it out slowly, then it would be different.

[SirJOW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daishi6:
Remember those guys hiding in the toilet at Airport? Those days will be long gone. I hope all this comes to fruition. I really want my Rainbow back. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That reminds me! They better bring back the sound like in Rainbow Six 3 and Black Arrow where you can hear footsteps and doors opening and closing. I couldn't believe that they took THAT out in Letdown TOO! That is just ridiculous! Footsteps and door sounds are a very important part of the game (at least in MP.)

Anyway, back to the toilet in the quote, if they fix the sound ala R63 and BA whoever is in the toilet will hear you outside the door and open and shoot before you can put that sneaky snake away:P

[Real720]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
if they can take it out lightning fast, then yes. but if if the player can take it out slowly, then it would be different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't matter, because Rainbow Six Vegas (on single and multiplayer) is a SQUAD based shooter. The player who's using the snake cam can immediately tell his squadmate that there's a hostile approaching.

[GSG_9_Rage]

what's wrong with an ambush? the other team can do the exact same thing right back to them. i did the same thing in raven shield, except with a heart beat sensor. you get a bunch of your team mates. cover all the doors, then stick one guy in the middle with HBS goggles. same basic concept. in RvS, there is nothing stopping me from camping a foor with my HBS, so why should it be restricted with the snake cam. the only reason that i see is the fact that HBS can't tell friend from foe, while the snake cam can, thats the only reason i see, but i think it isn't a big deal

[Ghost Dog 3]

I think the snake cam is smart and needed for Rainbow Six. ((Just dreaming) Using it on windows and ventshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

[Real720]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GhostDog3:
I think the snake cam is smart and needed for Rainbow Six. ((Just dreaming) Using it on windows and ventshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There should at least be an option to disable the snake cam in multiplayer, kinda like how the host in Black Arrow was able to disable grenade launchers and/or thermal vision.

[Ghost Dog 3]

Oops I meant for co op and mission games http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif On multiplayer I wouldn't like it. 3rd person view will already create more campers and if the snake cam is added it would be even worst.

[GSG_9_Rage]

you see, i think the snake cam is just like HBS but only for doors, so i don't see a problem with it.

[AG3OfShadows]

this should make things interesting

[spm1138]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
I hope that the snake-cam won't be as cheap as the heartbeat sensor from Lockdown. Also, this tool should only be available in the easier difficulties. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Key point to note:
It looked really cool on the gameplay video.

[SirJOW]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GhostDog3:
Oops I meant for co op and mission games http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif On multiplayer I wouldn't like it. 3rd person view will already create more campers and if the snake cam is added it would be even worst. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh no! Did you just go and ruin my hopes for this game again?!

Not only do they have to fix the possible 3rd person lean in MP now but the snake cam in MP too? Geez! Thanks a lot GhostDog3! I hadn't even thought about this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[Ghost Dog 3]

Np

[Hstgfreak2005]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RawKryptonite:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Shishkarob:
SWAT teams all over the united states use snake cams, so of corse they should keep it in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you're right, but they should at least take it out from multiplayer for obvious reasons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why take it out of MP? The best MP experience, to me, would be one side playing the team and the other playing the group of terrorists. Not just everyone running stupid gunning each other down--like in pretty much every other online MP game. Use online players to simulate the situations in the SP game.
Give the team the snake cam and their same tools. Give the terrorists trip wire grenades to put out, hostages and control of the security cameras. That way BOTH sides have special tools, and MP can become something more than just too fast paced run & gun action. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HAHA I agree with you 100 %. Just imagine! You are a terrorists and can capture hostages and tie em up to a chair and the Rainbow team has to try and kill you and take the hostage with you to the Helicopter waiting outside! That is,imo, the best online MP experience ever!

[KungFu_CIA]

The issue of the fiber optic camera in R6 brings up something very interesting that we are also discussing on the PC Forums:

R6 and CQB Games - Then and Now (1998-2006) (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3801065024/m/5101085254)

The whole gyst of the thread is the R6 games... Except for the console versions... Depict SF HRT operations as "slow" and "methodical" when in reality speed, agression and surprise are some of the key elements in overwhelming the enemy and not allowing them to mount an effective counter-attack.

Basically, I am challenging the established model that for a game to be "tactical" it has to be slow. I believe this is a false model to a certain degree as far as realism is concerned.

Also, we must specficially differentiate what we mean when we say "tactics"; One being real world, CQB tactics and the other video game tactics -- The latter which most gamers use and refer to whenever you call R6 or any game a "tactical" game, or a "run-and-gun" game.

This is all relevant to the discussion you are having about the snake-cam because on the one side some of you are saying it will make the game more "tactical"... And in essence, slower... But you are also implying:

A) This is a MP CO-OP type situation where your team is working as a real CQB/HR team with a common goal other such as rescuing a hostage, securing intel, etc. than just kill the opposing team like in Team Survival.

Thus, using something like the snake-cam is this kind of MP setting is going to be beneficial and probably a key element to success.

B) Some of you are also saying this in itself promotes more realism/realistic tactics... But that is debatable as how many of you know how to properly breach and clear a room like trained operatives do?

Also, on a related note, how many real world tactics and how much realism is a console game geared toward (mostly younger) mainstream audiences going to reward, or punish players for using such things as real world tactics in comparison to just rewarding typical MP video game tactics, I.E. point-and-shoot with no real thought?

(I don't have an answer; I am just throwing this out for discussion)

The other side of the argument is what others have brought up and that is the snake-cam being used in an MP Adverserial game mode like Ranibow vs. Rainbow, or Rainbow vs. Terrorists.

Again, the same issues/arguments/discussions with regard to the amounts of realism and promoting real world tactics vs. video game tactics is the game going to reward and punish also apply here too.

This is where the real answer to the 3rd person /wall hugging issue and the snake-cam are going to be revealed and until then I don't think there is anything we can do until the game itself, or a demo for it is released and we can actually play it for ourselves.

So, in closing, I am not trying to stop discussion on this topic by any means.

However, I am just bringing up what I feel are relevant points to this on-going discussion in the hopes someone else will address them as the debate goes on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif