Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Lockdown Hands-On - Rainbow Returns to the PC (GameSpot)

[MAD_Inferno]

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/gamespace/updates.php?pid=925341&sid=6141888

[inappropriate]

Good review... but the linear style of the map construction worries me.

I guess how the mp demo plays might make or break this game.

The graphics engine looks good, pity RavenShield wasn't built on an engine like that.

cheers,
ons.
PS. Has anyone noticed that Backup Assault1 in RVS weighs 44KG and is only 155cm tall.

[Philipz]

A fairly good review.

[TURBOWNS.]

i dont know what to think anymore. I got the feeling from reading it, this is more an arcade shooter.

[NaRc.op]

gamespot made their own videos? http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/tomclancysrainbowsix4/media.html 3 videos added today with that preview

[Woosy]

Was pretty cool, didn't like there no one hit kill, its just meh. Did you watch the gameplay video by the way? That didn't look too bad. Oh yeah Hurray for helmets, they look super fab! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

[KungFu_CIA]

Originally posted by TURBOWNS.:
i dont know what to think anymore. I got the feeling from reading it, this is more an arcade shooter.

I think... From what we've seen so far... This is going to become an MP-only title for a lot players because if the SP portion is as confined and scripted as it appears most are just going to skip it and play the MP portion where more of a challenge in both opponent skill and unpredictability exists.

[jimmy7685]

anyone notice the Feb 10 Release date on gamespot i do so hope its accurate

[cwimpenn]

I'm not seeing the player peeking around corners before moving out in the videos. Has that control option been removed?

[TURBOWNS.]

Its just too fast paced. rush rush running around at a million miles an hour .. thats not a tactical shooter. Clearing rooms is different that requires speed but all the running around in between (which seams to be a ridiculously fast speed for a man or woman to run with patrol order medium) takes away from the stealth that should exist in the game.

I think the run speed has the potential to spoil multiplayer aswell. It is very fast in the videos. Too fast imo

It should be a great game either way but its the small things that will make or break this title for me.

[Yahweh_]

Run speed is ok. It's just as fast paced as Rogue Spear was.

[Woosy]

Originally posted by Yahweh_:
Run speed is ok. It's just as fast paced as Rogue Spear was.

I totaly agree http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif , i think the speed seems fine.

[MD_Sennet]

Originally posted by KungFu_CIA:
I think... From what we've seen so far... This is going to become an MP-only title for a lot players because if the SP portion is as confined and scripted as it appears most are just going to skip it and play the MP portion where more of a challenge in both opponent skill and unpredictability exists. Got to agree with you KungFu. They can put in all the bells and whistles they want, but at the end of the day the depth just won't be present the way it would with a planning phase and multi-team approach.

The other thing that bothered me more than a little was this line, "If you take enough damage, you lose a health bar". That doesn't sound like the 3 phase system that Rogue Spear had (and that RVS had more or less with the half circle). It sounds like an actual Health Bar. Meaning even if you get shot in the face, or in the gut, or in the HEART, you only lose a bar... Not good.

[deosl]

Originally posted by cwimpenn:
I'm not seeing the player peeking around corners before moving out in the videos. Has that control option been removed?

I belive leaning is the thing now istead of peaking. You can see them lean in the MP screens.

[DJ_BigSM]

thanks nice preview and videos

thats a good way to start the day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

weapon sounds seem to be amazing.

[doylle_]

Hey, did anyone notice that in the last movie (the one with the Night-vision), the guys throws a frag withouth the silly circles... (! spelling). I hope this means that you can either way turn it of, or they just dumped the whole idea of the circles...

[deosl]

Yeah, I think those neon-circles were from the console version as seen in the early builds.
Hopefully they are gone or toogable.

Edit:
Another thing that is bugging me is the knife. It can be seen on medium/heavy armor out-fitting screen on the right leg. And not on the light uniforms.
What gives?

[Dirtydog28]

Well that has not excited me at all really, faster paced, dident see any real stealth tactics at all. Reminded me of BF2 and CCS really. Lot of urban fighting not much room clearing. wish they showed other guns with scopes. Not enthused but as always hopefull.

[Mx21]

I hope that whole no 1 hit to kill is thrown away for the multiplayer game. I don't like the way the levels are linear either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

[Dirtydog28]

We should also note that Lockdown isn't a "one shot, one kill" game like previous Rainbow Six games, either. In early Rainbow Six games, you have the barest margin for error, since a single shot can put a commando out of commission. However, Lockdown is a lot more forgiving, since each commando has a health bar consisting of three bars. If you're wounded, you take damage. If you take enough damage, you lose a health bar. If you lose all three health bars, the commando is dead.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

[deosl]

1 New weapon class under pistol category.
-Shotgun

http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2006/004/review...060104_screen021.jpg (http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2006/004/reviews/925341_20060104_screen021.jpg)

[I._GHOST_.I]

What to think?
I do not like the 'linear' levels. It is like a nintendo platformer. It is programmed for you to reach certain points at certain times and your team say certain things at certain times. Do they not understand that in real life, you can storm an area from any direction with one group or four seperate groups from different directions if you want? This new control freak stuff is not good. Even Mercinaries on PS2 allows you do what you want, when you want and storm the target how you want...

The player threw a frag and it bounced off the wall in front of him... OMG, did you see how far it bounced? (third gamespot movie: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/tomclancysrainbowsix4/media.html).

Yes to make a game where it seems like a swat movie you must put scripted/control freak elements in it but RVS allows you to play exactly how you want (any level in any mode, share out team members over three teams, tangos do not 'generate' when you reach a certain point, attack from where you want/take any route). I do not like not having move with scope. It is frickin stupid. A megnified scope would be hard to run with but a red dot and iron sight??? Come on, to aim he must stop every time. I once practised strafing at full speed past a doorway with my airsoft MP5 RAS and trying to shoot a match box whilst aiming through my iron sights in my house. Yes it was hard but i hit it a few times so hitting a human size target would be easy. This game... This game...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

[Yen Lo]

as far as the linear levels goes lets see how moddable the game is first. Who know how you can build your maps.

[WhiteKnight77]

The first new trailer is the same bank one that is on the XBox/PS2 verison and I know for a fact it is linear.

While they new movies look good, I am worried about the amount of ammo needed to take out a tango. At the ranges they are encountering them, they should be no more than 2 rounds nneded to neutralize one. Very arcade like in execution.

I am still bery undecided about this version of the game. Hopefully a demo (of a different level than the bank level) will help make an informed decision as to whether this is a game I want or not.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Dirtydog28:
We should also note that Lockdown isn't a "one shot, one kill" game like previous Rainbow Six games, either. In early Rainbow Six games, you have the barest margin for error, since a single shot can put a commando out of commission. However, Lockdown is a lot more forgiving, since each commando has a health bar consisting of three bars. If you're wounded, you take damage. If you take enough damage, you lose a health bar. If you lose all three health bars, the commando is dead.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

But what is more realistic? A single shot dropping the commando, even though they are wearing at least Level III, or even IV armour, both able to stop at least 6 7.62 rounds? Even in the book one of the operators took a burst from a SMG and didn't even realize he was hit until after the operation.

[KungFu_CIA]

The XBox version of LD (which I played) was very linear... But that is to be expected since it is a console game in the sense the target audience wants a more cinematic and controlled experience (this is why we no longer can "body-hop" from different team members and are restricted to playing only the hero character, Ding).

However, I thought they would have at least redone the levels for the PC version considering RSE has all the original elements -- map files, textures, sounds, -- So all they would have to do (in theory) is add a few more entry points, cut out some walls and put in a few more doorways, new rooms, etc.

[TedSmith]

The strange part is that I recall seeing in an interview/preview with someone that the devs specifically stated they were going to rework the maps to make them less linear for the PC than the console versions.

[DayGlow]

the only SP map I played was the first one. It was very linear, but also it was a training map, with hint 'bubbles' on it telling the player how to play and some of the game dynamics. As you get to later levels it could very well open up. It probably depends how far the person playing the preview went through. If he is basing his observations off the first few levels, it could not be giving a full idea of what's in the game.

[GSG_9_Rage]

that was a bad review. good writing, upsetting information. they took the game and made it into another FPS. Missions, linear gameplay, one person to play and alot more shooting. going through a parking structure loaded with terrorists, going through the streets loaded with terros, going to a bank infested with terros. what the hell are we doing? fighting a war? i almost cried at the end of the review. Red Storm, i have lost all faith in you, i am really dissappointed.

[GSG_9_Rage]

one thing i will probably miss is the tension of missions. since RSE has loaded the maps up with tons of terros all you are worrying about is if you can spit out more bullets than the terros. in previous versions, there were so few terros, you were wondering where they were, when will they pop up on you, where they could be hiding. you miss the sense of lurking silently room after room. the suspense of where the next terro could be. then the action would explode as your plan comes together and you storm a room, rescuing the hostage or defusing the bomb. RSE... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

[DayGlow]

? From what I remember there has always been a lot of targets in every mission I've ever played in the R6 series.

[GSG_9_Rage]

true, but not as many as i predict there will be, based on the videos.

[DayGlow]

because videos tend to only show the action? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I've always liked playing a custom team game with only 2-4 tangos on a map. Much more what real life would be and it can get very tense when you are sneaking around a level for a long time with no contact.

[GSG_9_Rage]

exactly! thats the kind of tension and anxiety that i would like to see put back n the series. but make it an average of 10-15 terros. that way it would be a good balance of realism, but you still get action.

[MoFo_Savior]

Don't be spastic, nobody is playing R6 LD for the single player, I played RVS hardcore for 2 years and never once played the single player. It's all about the mad tension being built up online with all the extreme talent present here. R6 is one of the only games that I know of that is like the olympics when you play it, every round is intense as hell. Because they slow it down and make it more real to life.

[DayGlow]

actually around 80% of sales make up people that only play sp and never come online.

[MD_Sennet]

Originally posted by I._GHOST_.I:
... tangos do not 'generate' when you reach a certain point If I do get Lockdown, I don't intend on playing the single player anyway, but if the above "feature" is now a part of the campaign, then this series has taken a severe nose dive in quality...

The whole point of the operational setup/planning phase was to evaluate the scenario, structure, and possible location of tangos.

[DayGlow]

From what I saw them when they were scripting the levels they were setting up the different tango patrol zones and awareness states throughout the level. I don't think they spawn at all. They are set from the beginning with variable start points and composition (to add randomness to replay). They explained that there was an individual AI, group AI, and platoon AI. So the AI communicates and reacts to actions in different parts of the level.

[MD_Sennet]

Once again DG succeeds at talking me off a ledge... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[MOJO_Bobito]

I cant belive what I have just ****in read...I cant belive that rse has done to the game...They are listening to ****in console players but wont listen to us wtf!!!!!

No more 1 shot 1 kill - wtf we playing css now?

No sniper rifles - wow how can you remove the sniper weapons...just because a console player has no aim no reason you should have taken them out of the game.

No planning....wow I dont play single player but thats one of the features I enjoyed.

Then we have all types of stupid **** like lazer trip mines (wow thats reaslitic!) Goggle view is gay..I can go on and on about how ****ed up this game is going to be...

And the sad thing is I know im going to be buying it... But seriously why have redstorm raped the game? is it ubi giving the directions.

This is no longer is realistic shooter its a counterstrike wannab...all because they want it to appeal to a wider audience....

FU

[DayGlow]

I suggest you read some more because pretty much wrong on everything, except the no planning stage.

There is no goggle view (I've seen the SS of the condensation, but there is normally no outline of goggles as you play)

There are sniper rifles, the shooting gallery sniper levels have been removed, which pretty much everyone will agree is a good thing.

There are 1 shot kills, but just like every other R6 game you can get wounded as well. They have a 3 bar display to show your state this time instead of a circle.

A lot of things have changed in the game because they have been listening to the players. Not everything is going to be exactly how people want it, but I think RSE has put a huge effort in making LD for PC a much better experience.

[The-Pizza-Man]

It is actually looking very similiar to Close Combat. That had very linear levels, where the tactical decisions were more "how to make it across clearing X to reach objective Y". A linear game can still be very realistic, but maybe not as fun.

[gosscom]

Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
It is actually looking very similiar to Close Combat. That had very linear levels, where the tactical decisions were more "how to make it across clearing X to reach objective Y". A linear game can still be very realistic, but maybe not as fun. Do you mean close combat: First To Fight? iv'e just reinstalled the game, yeah it's very linear, sometimes feels quite tight, probably why it's called close combat lol. To me it's got the most realistic body movements i have seen in a game, especially in walking mode.

[GSG_9_Rage]

Full Spectrum Warrior (xbox, what i played) is very realistic, but it is fairly linear. it does provide some room to manuver, but it is pretty linear.

[SOF_Timber]

I really liked Close Combat:First to Fight. Had a lot of fun doing the single player & the coop. Even though Lockdown will be different from the other R6 games I'm very much looking forward to the game. No doubt it will be fun and I can't wait till its released.

[Osteo1965]

While Full Spectrum Warrior was one of the best combat sims I've played, it was 100% linear for the PC. You could move around the map but had to complete each item in the mission in a step wise fashion. Still a great game, though. Hopefully there will be some variability to LD.

[GSG_9_Rage]

it was very good. a really really great sim. my favorite map is the airport level. but anyways, i got bored of FSW real real fast and i haven't completed the game to do that fact. SOCOM is a great example, it has Direct team command, and it has very open ended maps. if you have to pull this "copy other games" crapola, and have 4 man squads, just one player thing, then SOCOM is the game to copy, not CS/UT.