UbiRazz's Response to Lack of Info

[WhiteKnight77]

Over on the SHIII forum, it was stated when asked about info on the patch:



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Originally posted by Faamecanic:
I think the LEAST the devs could do is give us a ETA on the next patch.

I still say they should have issued a 1.31 patch to fix the sonar guy....


Yep, i think its unexcusable on UBI's part mostly and secondly the dev team. But, could be UBI's policy for them to stay quiet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To which I stated:

Ubi has been keeping devs quiet everywhere unfortunately. No information gets released until they are ready to release it unfortunately nowadays.

UbiRazz stated this in response:

You make it sound like Ubisoft are telling the developers to shut up, this isn't the case in the slightest. Discussions about announcements and releases are made with full cooperation between both devteams and Ubisoft.

Online communities are very demanding at the best of times and we try to address this as much as possible but sometimes it's not possible to comment. The time to get a patch developed, tested, and ready for release? How long is a piece of string? When we're closer to completion we'll let you know. We've learned from our mistakes in the past and are constantly trying to find ways to stop them happening again.

I then asked:

Razz, if that were not the case, then why have Ghsot Recon fans not had any news on a PC version for over a year? XBox version have had trailers, screens and interviews, yet when asked for PC releated info, we hit a brick wall. The only thing we have heard on PC versions is that it is in development GR2 and 3 then GR2 for PC canceled. No screens, not trailers, not nothing on either iteration. Why?

GRIN has at least give us a few subtle hints that they are listening, but has Ubi allowed them to say anything or release any screens?

GRIN was going to set up forums, but who nixed that idea? Can only be once source.

If Ubi isn't telling devs to be quiet, then why no news on the new patch for SHIII or any thing else except some console games? People want to know Razz.

And UbiRazz responded with:

Well this certainly isn't the forum for a good ol' Ghost Recon argument but I guess it's inevitable.

There was no Ghost Recon 2 PC information until this year as last year we were focusing on the console version. This year it's been cancelled. Next year we see Ghost Recon 3 PC getting released, closer to release we will start building up hype for the game. We will never release screens or movies too early for a release and the PC version of GR3 is subject to this, like all of our games. As I stated before, we work with the devteam who are making the game and we all agree when and what releases/announcements to make - i.e. the devteam for GR3 PC does have a say in what's released. When a brand is making an appearance on multiple platforms we will always focus on the versions for release first â€" in this case console â€" and, when we’re ready, then we’ll focus on later versions. You’re complaining that there’s nothing out there for GR3 PC, maybe it’s because it’s not in a state ready to be seen? Maybe the devteam aren’t satisfied that anything they release will do the final game justice?

Silent Hunter III, the news for the patch is that the patch is in development, when we get closer to release and completion of the patch we will release information. It's got nothing to do with telling people to be quiet or anything, it's about releasing solid information. Would you prefer us to send out a statement saying X, Y, and Z will be in the next patch and then have two of those things dropped for A, B, and C? No, you'd be disappointed. In these cases it's often best not to say anything at all.

This argument has no place here, thread closed.


First, I want to say, Razz, I know you have a tough job. I see you in all the forums I have games. That's quite a few really.

Now to address some of the things you stated in your last response as I am sure others will want to ask similar questions.

You say that the devs will release info when ready after discussing it with Ubi and will show information on the version getting released first. Now according to the GR3 press release:


When will the games Tom Clancy's Ghost Reconâ® 3 be available?

The Xbox, PS2, GC and PC versions will be available for the 2005 holiday season, and the version for the next-generation console from Microsoft will be available for the machine's launch.

Now with the launch of all 5 versions at the same time, they have to all be far enough along to show something. Heck the XBox 360 weren't even in game videos or screens as there were no playable XBox360's. The trailer was being run on Apple computers at E3. Now PCs's are an available platform right now, no waiting for launch. It is known that GR3 has been in development for some time. With a launch date less than 6 months away, surely there is even some early beta screens to be had. GR1 changed radically between first showings and final code. Why was info released then and not now?

As I asked, why wasn't GRIN allowed to start forums on their website? If Ubi wasn't trying to keep close tabs on what was said, do you not think that GRIN would have them or even post here or GR.net? I know that the guys from RSE and GRIN read both here and there, yet, not one lick of information, from you, HangtownSOG or them. Why is that when the games are so close to launch?

With GR2, we knew that work was held up to get the console version out the door (ahead of schedule no less) and once that was finished, work was restarted, but no word of what was happening or an expected ship date. The first word that was given after Christmas as was said, was that it was canceled. Now we all know why, but still, no information from anyone as to how it was gonna play or look.

While I and the others want the devs to work on the game, we do wish more information. If it is as you say that Ubi isn't gagging anyone, then surely, there are early screens that can be relased? Remeber. PCs exist right now and are not a piece of hardware that is awaiting launch.

I didn't mean to get that thread locked in the SHIII forum, just wishing to show that they aren't the only ones lacking for information.

[UbiRazz]

You have my apologies for that, I got myself confused between Lockdown PC and GR3 PC, hence my statements about it 'not being time' for PC information, althought they're still fairly accurate. The Xbox 360 screens/movies released are the only platform that's been released as that's what we're focusing on for E3 (the biggest consumer show in the world and very console orientated). It makes business sense, right? Later on we will start discussing other platforms, including PC.

Why aren't GRIN posting on here? Could it be because everything that is posted on here by an 'official GRIN/Ubi' employee immediately becomes the ‘official word’ of that company and they’d prefer to focus their time towards making the game rather than the fallout of a misunderstood comment â€" which can often happen on here? Could it be they don't have the time to spend hours upon hours discussing, analysing, and trying to address every single point on here? They might not be taking part in your discussions but you already know that they're at least reading and hearing what you say.

[Rogue Agent]

I am starting to see a disturbing trend here. Game companies are beggining to keep their customers in the dark. I saw it first with the ravenshield forums where we waited months for news on a patch. The Ghost recon forums gave PC fans no news for a entire year till they told us it was cancelled. In the Swat 4 forums we still dont know if the game will be supported or if a patch is in the works to fix bugs. We wont know if they will release a patch till the patch is about to be released. This new policy trend is causing a lot of anger with the communities.

[WhiteKnight77]

Still, you have to wonder why no screens for an entertainment expo for a platform that exists unlike CGI movies for a piece of hardware that isn't finalized.

If we PC gamers had video or screens for the PC version, it would go a long way to placating them (me included). If Serellan can spend 4 or 5 days in LA prior and during E3, why not one of the GRIN devs to show off PC? I hope you can see my point of view. It's tit for tat really. If the devs don't post, fine, just release some information. This game is going to be a hard enough sell as it is with a different engine and a different feel from the looks of things. Showing that we are wrong in the presumptions can do wonders.

I know I ask hard questions, but I see things in ways that others aren't. This year has been really eye opening.

[Le Tigre]

Not to mention that it was said that the PC version may also accually be further along then the Xbox360 version.

[X13lazeX]

I belive they listen and read most of everything that have time to read like razz has said...if i was buildin a game i wouldnt want to be bothered by a discusion that has no end too..they take the feedback from the users and build on it or do it better so i belive that ubisoft, grin and all other teams in development of this game will bring back the roots off the orignal game.

13laze
ps... i will game test if needed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[NYR_32]

@WK from my understanding someone from GRIN was at E3, and you have to take into account the limited size of the event floor (which limits how much the companies can show), trust me when I say there wouldn't have been much more room for UBI to show anything else

[ATU_Cutter]

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
If we PC gamers had video or screens for the PC version, it would go a long way to placating them (me included).

A loooooooooong loooooooong way! Just one friggen "PC" screen!! JUST ONE!! I imagine there are still many disgruntled pc fans from the last fiasco that have to see to believe.

Just one screen would do a world of good. I don't think that is asking much considering the shaft the GR PC community got with GR2.

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Rogue Agent:
I am starting to see a disturbing trend here. Game companies are beggining to keep their customers in the dark. I saw it first with the ravenshield forums where we waited months for news on a patch. The Ghost recon forums gave PC fans no news for a entire year till they told us it was cancelled. In the Swat 4 forums we still dont know if the game will be supported or if a patch is in the works to fix bugs. We wont know if they will release a patch till the patch is about to be released. This new policy trend is causing a lot of anger with the communities.

Unfortunatly I've seen the other side as well. During the development of LOMAC the devs were very open about what they were doing during all stages of the development and many things that were mused about became 'promises' to this day that many people complain about. For example they showed a very nice F/A-18 model and the devs mused about they would like to make it flyable someday. Well people still complain that they never followed through with that promise. It got so bad that Matt Wagner, the executive producer for the sim stopped posting on the forum. He now doesn't work in the industry, partly because he got tired of the constant hounding online.

Myself if I was developing a game, I wouldn't release anything until it was confirmed to be in the game and working. It's not worth appeasing a small core auidence so that they can fill your official forums with complaints about misunderstandings.

[WhiteKnight77]

Then something like E3 is not needed anymore. Why hype a game that "shows" something that may not even end up in game? I can care less if devs post or not, I am just asking for the screens and trailers that other platforms get for PC versions. Notice that the next gen consoles haven't launched yet while PCs are available enmass. Why not show something for a platform that already exists? Remember, 5 versions are slated for release at the same time and not a staggered schedule.

[Fyredawg]

Dayglow, Ur sorry guys I gotta disagree with ya WK is right, by now we should have something, some info, screenshots, features, ect. Anything specific for the PC platform. Heck if someone came in here and said guys I dont have much to give ya but here is ONE screen shot, or nothing is for sure yet, but we will have replays in MP. Anything, at this point would go along way.

And the folks at grin said that anything they say on the subject has to go through Ubi for aproval. Now I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer, I mean hey I run into burning buildings for a living but even I would say that sounds like they are being muzzled. Pretty simple stuff.

[DayGlow]

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see something as well, especially after the whole GR2 debacle. I've got a bad taste in my mouth over that one because I was very patient and open to the design they were projecting. I maintained a wait and see attitude for all the new features they were putting into the game, only to have it cancelled.

But I also understand the hesitency of not just Ubi devs, but all devs for not wanting to be public.

(BTW you mattress-backs got the easy life, 2 bbq's and 2 sleep overs for shifts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )

[buddhiraja]

What about a picture of the ghosts standing side by side, from the <span class="ev_code_RED">PC VERSION</span> ? I guess, UBI is sure that the GHOSTS will be there in final version of GR3 pc, or aren't they ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ed_1]

A couple of screens and some basic (and working) features wouldn't kill us..

[Prozac360]

webkit is all im asking for

[UbiRazz]

Why focus on Xbox 360 instead of PC for E3 and the current time period? Xbox 360 is the biggest 'thing' to happen in the games industry for this year, the year of release of Ghost Recon 3, it makes perfect business sense to get in there first with Xbox 360. I'm 100% sure that the Xbox 360 verison of GR3 will sell more than every other platform it's released on.

[kainite]

It's been said before: you're overdoing it guys. No offense intended. I'm sure GRIN and/or UBI have their reasons for not releasing any info or screens at this time. And although some of you will now rush to post how naive I am, I choose to believe we will see something soon.

We've had a lot of indications, enough I would say, to know that GR3 PC is actually in development. We've also heard that it will be released this year, and even if it would get delayed that means the devs should have come a long way already. We've even heard someone say that the PC version is ahead of the Xbox360. (Official source? Can anyone confirm that info?) Us sitting here whining will not get us the info faster. What dev would respect such bs? Really? No wonder they won't talk directly to us.

About the secrets laws of marketing, I know nothing, but I do trust info will come eventually. Just sit tight.

And don't ever flame the messenger.

[buddhiraja]

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Why focus on Xbox 360 instead of PC for E3 and the current time period? Xbox 360 is the biggest 'thing' to happen in the games industry for this year, the year of release of Ghost Recon 3, it makes perfect business sense to get in there first with Xbox 360. I'm 100% sure that the Xbox 360 verison of GR3 will sell more than every other platform it's released on.

I agree with that logic but releasing just a couple of screenshots of the pc version, in a website, would placate the pc players somewhat. Like I said before, a picture of the Ghosts standing together, is not something that UBI can be nailed for later on, even if the skins change marginally.

This has become necessary because GR2 was cancelled and the pc guys are wanting some reassurance from UBI, a friendly gesture from UBI to prove that pc matters somewhat even if xbox 360 is more important. The logic -- that any information released in semicooked state may change later and the on-line community may become too critical then, is sound logic in normal circumstance but because of the cancellation of GR2 pc that policy needs a hard look. The need of the hour is different and a judicious approach would be to change the course of action depending on the situation at hand. The same logic is not applicable always.

I personally think that GR3 will be released on pc and will be a great game, but there are others who doubt it. It seems logical that they should be placated, even if it is with a small gesture.

And Razz, these are my thoughts on UBI's marketing policy, it is in no way directed at you personally. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Cobblers]

People are saying we PC Gamers are jumping the gun, to hold on as news will be released soon...hogwash!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Even if GR3 is released, I bet UBI will leave us high and dry waiting for mystical patches which never arrive. (Remember Rvs?? - What a joke that was!!) There will be lag, unexplained bugs and no support or concrete news to rely on either, as this is UBI's way for the PC.

I'd like information on how long GR3 has been in development? If it's to be released later this year then it's not far off from being complete. Put your money where your mouth is UBI and cough up some proof.

No I didn't think so...

[sneaky_sniper79]

I'd say the problem is that what is considered enough for the fans who are so hungry for GR3 PC info, is real thin for the press - and you can't realease anything just for the hardcore fans.

GR3 is a big title, and anything released is inevitable going to be big news in both online and paper press - it can't be exclusively released for those who nag enough on the forums (sorry, hehe).

For us GR fans any screenshot might do - just because it proves the game is actually being made - but for the casual gamers who maybe haven't heard of the GR games before, and hears about for the first time when their game mag writes about that "any screenshot", it might ruin the entire hype that was supposed to be so well planned. You must consider those guys as well - the unexpecting gamers to whom this "any screenshot" is going to be the first enctounter with GR3.

Therefore, in the greater context, even the itty bitty littlest screenshot or other info that is to be released has to be top notch. Marketing is a science. Not realeasing any info might be bad marketing (at least in the eyes of the expectant fans who already know about the brand), but if the things that would be shown aren't that top notch just yet - that's the way it has to be.

I'm sure if GRIN could release a screenshot only to the fans on this forum, they definately would - but unfortunately that's not possible, since they've got the entire world's game press' eyes on them.

I know your patience has been tested to its limits, but still I say be patient - be even more patient.

[UbiRazz]

You have to remember that each platform will have its own unique game and if we start talking about the differences between them it's likely that the messages will get confused. Right now we're focusing on Xbox 360, it's huge right now and looks like it will be for a while yet.

[ColinCJ]

I thought we had got over the gr2 thing???????

In all honesty it realy is time please give gr2 the rest in peace it deserves.

The frustration ppl are expressing is understandable from a GR2 point of view.

But not from a Gr3 point of view.

Gr3 has been official for a few weeks and already some of you complain that they dont get to see it.

Games with big publishers follow a PR schedule and right now screenshots and detail info is not up for posting according to that schedule - simple but a fact, they stick to the plan.

Why cant some of you accept that.

You aint gonna get nothing at the moment. and thats it.

UBI is not evil or bad in fact they have made millions of people all over the world very happy.

They are a business and they do understand PC gamers.

This is why GRIN has been given the task to deliver the PC VERSION. Otherwise they could just have ported the Xbox360 internaly at a much cheaper cost and be done with it.

They take the PC seriously.

If you dont believe this then thats your problem.

But I know this information to be totally correct.

Colin

[WhiteKnight77]

I wasn't trying to rehash the GR2 business. I was just using it as an example of what we gamers are or rather are not seeing with the games we love.

Are we gamers demanding, most definately. Why is that? We find something we like and we don't want to give it up. As noted in the console forums I believe, people liked GR because it broke the mold for shooters. Was it a hit? Sure and we loved it for what it was. We also got a plethora of information during it's development even if things did change between initial screens and final code. We can live with that, yet we do not recieve it for sequels.

Here is something else that bothers me and it is also part of the reason why we are not being given much, but don't quote me on it though. I noted this in the Rainbow Six Lockdown forums:


Unfortunately, I see a disturbing trend. RSE developed the Tac-Sim genre and developed a following with it. That including developing their own engine to fit their needs. Their games only came out on the PC. Now 7 years down the road after their intial released, their original franchise has been bastardized with the use of the Unreal engine and the game play has changed over what it was. Ubi brought Lockdown back to RSE as after fan unrest (a disturbing trend was started), it ws decided to bring the game back to the developers who started it all, but with the instructions to make it more action oriented. Hmmmmm, sounds like a CS clone to me. To top it off, it is coming out on console first.

I know this is not about the R6 series, but if you read between the lines, you will see similarities between the 2 franchises. An RSE developed game being sent to a different studio.

As it stands right now, the originally developed engine is no more the way I see it. Console versions are being made with the Yeti engine and PC versions are being made with the Diesel engine. That is some information, and we have seen what the Yeti engine may offer, but nothing from the other. RSE has pretty much ceased to be the preeminate Tac-Sim developer, they were and they developed the whole genre to begin with.

[crtChunk72]

I personally don't see what the release of anything will have to do with, well, anything. I've been reading these forums long enough to witness "Soldner is going to kick GR's butt! Have you seen those screen shots?!"

"Far Cry is going to be awesome... look at those screen shots!! GR is dead..."

"No, I'm serious this time, look at the screen shots for FtF. It's going to replace GR on my hard drive. I mean it..."

It doesn't matter (to me) what the screens look like, people follow the eye candy whereever and they still end up with an unsatisfying game. Who cares?!? Who freakin' cares what the screens are going to look like?!? Did the screen shots of FtF get you to love that game more than GR?!? I'm guessing not, since most reviews (from GR fans) that I've read of FtF is "it's ok, but still not good enough".

So what will screen shots do for GR3?!? I don't understand why this is "so important" to so many of you...

[Cobblers]

The reason a screenshot is of such importance is for proof!

Like others have rightly stated, a screenshot would prove that the GR3 PC game is in development, as far as I'm concerned it isn't as yet. Seeing is believing as they say.

UBI have been very short of releasing PC info for some of their previous titles, which have ended up going to the dogs. We are getting (in development terms) very close to a release, yet still no proof of anything PC related apart from someone saying "it is coming".

Some people put this down to a marketing ploy. Give me a break guys. Do any of you buy PC magazines here, or read any kind of reviews? There were screen shots of Splinter Cell 3 released much sooner than the official release date, lot's of information given out to the public, was this game a success? Yes it was.

So why not give us the same respect and let's have some screen shots? Or a system spec, some details of what we the PC gamer might be able to expect.

And don't say that this type of thing is going to get quoted in the press, all the UK based PC Gaming magazines have given up on this game, they feel as digruntled as us at this point.

[ATU_Cutter]

Originally posted by Cobblers:
The reason a screenshot is of such importance is for proof!

Like others have rightly stated, a screenshot would prove that the GR3 PC game is in development, as far as I'm concerned it isn't as yet. Seeing is believing as they say.


That is the only reason I want to see a screen, JUST ONE SCREEN!! It has nothing to do with following the "eye candy" as you put it crtChunk. I think you missed the whole point.

[RWG.Jackal]

BAttlefield 2 has had no Official forums since its announcement.

But there are over 3 screenshots, 10 movies, and a Fan kit available. EA even released a PRE-Alpha video to give the fans something to tlak about.

Comparing GR to battlefield is like comparing Chess and Chutes and Ladders.

My point is, Some companies are rewarding the fans that made the game a hit, and the company a pile of cash.

UbiRazz has put it in writing "The XBox 360 is Huge and will remain so for a while" Why? because it even closer to a pc this time? What about the PS3? it makes the new XBox look outdated and Neither have been released. And with the Dual core CPUs and SLI just hitting both will be sub par graphics before they release compared to the PC.

Ive made predictions in the past that were very close to what ended up happening, and I will make another now.

GRIN will have the PC version completed and ready to ship PRior to the XBox 360 launch, but Ubi will push the PC release date back to at least 90 days after XBox.

Why?

Because there are people out there that will have both and XBox 360 and a PC. No one will buy the PC version and then go out and Buy the XBox 360 version( at least not as many as the other scenerio). But alot of those people will buy the XBox 360 version then the PC version if released later.

[crtChunk72]

Originally posted by ATU_Cutter:
I think you missed the whole point.

Maybe, maybe... but since GRIN's only "existence" on this forum is to make a PC game, there is no reason to doubt it's existence... I guess I'm not as cynical about the game actually being made...

Now, if we want to talk about "gameplay" and "back to its roots", I'm sure we'll all be in agreement over that... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

[UbiRazz]

Originally posted by RWG.Jackal:
UbiRazz has put it in writing "The XBox 360 is Huge and will remain so for a while" Why? because it even closer to a pc this time? What about the PS3? it makes the new XBox look outdated and Neither have been released. And with the Dual core CPUs and SLI just hitting both will be sub par graphics before they release compared to the PC.

Ive made predictions in the past that were very close to what ended up happening, and I will make another now.

GRIN will have the PC version completed and ready to ship PRior to the XBox 360 launch, but Ubi will push the PC release date back to at least 90 days after XBox.
Xbox 360 is the biggest thing to happen this year in gaming â€" announcement, revelation, and launch all this year. PS3 will be next year, maybe next year it’ll be the biggest thing to happen in gaming.

Considering that the PC version of GR3 is based upon the Xbox 360 one (engine-wise, it’ll be changed in order to make it more appealing for you guys) it’s pretty much impossible for it to be finished first.

[Alex_HS]

They cant put out any info until they are 100% sure that the game will actually make it, just imagine if they had posted GR2 information lol.
My bet is we will only see/hear something after the xbox360 game is out on the shelves and when the PC version is developed anough if it isnt canceled again.
They have to give micro$oft has much has possible, they want you to love GR3 for console so much that you actualy buy one of them 360's to play the game, then you can buy the PC version too after...
In my case 360 isnt even an option, i just dont console, its PC or nothing, that simple http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif.

[WhiteKnight77]

Originally posted by Alex_HS:
They cant put out any info until they are 100% sure that the game will actually make it, just imagine if they had posted GR2 information lol.
My bet is we will only see/hear something after the xbox360 game is out on the shelves and when the PC version is developed anough if it isnt canceled again.
They have to give micro$oft has much has possible, they want you to love GR3 for console so much that you actualy buy one of them 360's to play the game, then you can buy the PC version too after...
In my case 360 isnt even an option, i just dont console, its PC or nothing, that simple http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif.
Remember, all versions are to be released at the same time. No lag for any version.

[Cobblers]

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Considering that the PC version of GR3 is based upon the Xbox 360 one (engine-wise, it’ll be changed in order to make it more appealing for you guys) it’s pretty much impossible for it to be finished first.

@ WK - So if what Razz says is true, this means UBI will be waiting to release the Xbox 360 version just so the PC version can catch up?!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

If this is the case then the mind can only boggle at UBI's stratergy behind this one!!!

If what Alex_HS says is true, that "they cant put out any info until they are 100% sure that the game will actually make it" then this makes me worried also, as this kind of enforces my feelings that UBI still aren't 100% behind the PC release of GR2.

Sorry if my last few posts on this board have been, shall we say, sceptical, yet we have no idea what is really going on with this release. So I find myself clutching at straws to find the real answer. There can't be that many possibilities as to what is or will happen and I'm sure it's been suggested here within this and a few other threads.

That being said, I am more and more getting nervous for UBI with regards to GR3 PC.

[CDN_Angus]

Originally posted by Cobblers:
If this is the case then the mind can only boggle at UBI's stratergy behind this one!!!
Let me help you:

XBox360 = Micro$oft.

[X13lazeX]

Originally posted by UbiRazz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RWG.Jackal:
UbiRazz has put it in writing "The XBox 360 is Huge and will remain so for a while" Why? because it even closer to a pc this time? What about the PS3? it makes the new XBox look outdated and Neither have been released. And with the Dual core CPUs and SLI just hitting both will be sub par graphics before they release compared to the PC.

Ive made predictions in the past that were very close to what ended up happening, and I will make another now.

GRIN will have the PC version completed and ready to ship PRior to the XBox 360 launch, but Ubi will push the PC release date back to at least 90 days after XBox.
Xbox 360 is the biggest thing to happen this year in gaming â€" announcement, revelation, and launch all this year. PS3 will be next year, maybe next year it’ll be the biggest thing to happen in gaming.

Considering that the PC version of GR3 is based upon the Xbox 360 one (engine-wise, it’ll be changed in order to make it more appealing for you guys) it’s pretty much impossible for it to be finished first. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ummm razz...i belive that grin is using a differnt engine for the pc version so how can it be the same as the xbox 360 version http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

[RWG.Jackal]

He did state that the Engine would be differant.


And How can The PC version be done first you ask Razz??

Simple, GRIN Knows thier engine inside and out. They wont be wasting time trying to get something to work on a new engine. They may both get to beta stage together, but I would venture that GRIN will have an easier time finalizing than the XBox team will.

But please, if Im off base here let me know.

Plus the XBox 360 is releasing at the same time as GR3, GR 1 and 2 may have been succesfull on the XBox but they were not top sellers.

I bet the majority of the people droping the money on the 360 will only pick up one game with it, and I dont think GR3 will compete with MAdden football, or HALO 3, or DOA, which are the Top games for the XBox.

Im not angry, or trying to argue, but I do have to question the thinking here.

Those of us waiting for the PC version already have our machine. WE wont be running around trying to find a place thats not sold out for the first 12 months.

We will only need to have 49.99 available to get this game, where as Ubi appears to be banking on the fact that everyone will have 350.00 to 600.00 dollars to drop on GR3 and a 360.

Whats wrong with showin some love to the PC crowed, and Hypin the New XBox at the same time?

I respect you Razz, but we have waited longer than anyone for just one solid piece of news.

Im sure when the PC version comes out GRIN will have made a good game, and I will buy it. BUt GR3 PC or console is not going to compete with BF2, FEAR, or CoD2 by playing the Silent game.

[ColinCJ]

RWG.Jackal

On the money bro

[Alex_HS]

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Remember, all versions are to be released at the same time. No lag for any version.

Nope, 360 is the priority and i bet UBI/RSE are putting tremendous eforts in it, it must be done in time and it must be of the highest standards (atleast graphics wise), and i can bet they wont dare releasing PC and 360 versions simultaniously because the idea here is to make a product that will make people run out to buy M$'s 360's, later will come a PC game for the "rest" of us that just dont console (maybe).
If Grin can put up a high quality PC game in less than a year they are the best developing team ever because it just aint realistic, look at all the greatest PC games out there and see how long it took to put them together (years in the making), if they put a game together for a xmas release i wont be expecting much, it just doesnt work like that..

[WhiteKnight77]

Alex, look at Ubi's press release about GR3. They are the ones telling us it will be shipped for 5 different platforms all at the same time. Just because they released the info now doesn't mean that they just started the game. Now if Ubi has since changed proposed release dates for any version, by all means, please post a link to it. I nor has anyone else seen such news. If it were, the uproar would be deafening from the PC camp.

[RWG.Jackal]

HEres some Numbers and Quets for you all to maull over.


The guys at Worthplaying confirmed with a rep from UbiSoft that GR2 for PC is now officially dead due to an underwhelming incarnation and poor sales of the Console version.

1 PS2 GRAND THEFT: ANDREAS 1,553,930
2 PS2 NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 1,044,661
3 PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 935,719
4 XBX HALO 2 900,927
5 PS2 CALL OF DUTY: FINEST 624,341
6 GBA KINGDOM HEARTS: CHAIN 539,847
7 XBX NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 534,815
8 PS2 NBA LIVE 2005 519,289
9 PS2 METAL GEAR3:SNAKE EAT 486,886
10 GCN MARIO PARTY 6 W/MIC 469,014
11 XBX SW:KNIGHT REPUBLIC II 458,761
12 PS2 DRAGONBALL Z:BUDOKAI3 443,378
13 NDS SUPER MARIO 64 DS 437,331
14 GBA THE INCREDIBLES 411,578
15 PS2 TONY HAWK UNDERGRND 2 397,517
16 PS2 JAK 3 389,683
17 GBA THE SPONGEBOB MOVIE 368,012
18 XBX T.CLANCY GHOST RECON2 367,950
19 GBA DONKEY KONG COUNTRY 2 334,731
20 PS2 RATCHET & CLANK: UP 315,979
21 XBX CALL OF DUTY: FINEST 314,756
22 XBX MADDEN NFL 2005 302,994
23 PS2 WWE SMACKDOWN VS RAW 298,342
24 PS2 T.CLANCY GHOST RECON2 294,956
25 PS2 THE SPONGEBOB MOVIE 291,703
26 GBA POKEMON FIRERED W/ADP 285,988
27 PS2 ESPN NBA 2K5 285,319
28 PS2 ESPN NFL 2K5 283,535
29 GCN METROID PRIME 2: ECHO 270,092
30 PS2 WORLD CHAMP POKER 268,160
31 PS2 THE INCREDIBLES 265,071
32 GBA FINAL FANTASY I & II 263,635
33 GBA POKEMON LEAFGRN W/ADP 246,023
34 PS2 SPIDER-MAN:THE MOVIE2 245,041
35 PS2 PRINCE PERSIA:WARRIOR 236,096
36 XBX PRINCE PERSIA:WARRIOR 224,831
37 PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY 3 217,349
38 GCN PAPER MARIO: THOUSAND 214,921
39 NDS SPIDER-MAN:THE MOVIE2 201,522
40 GCN MARIO POWER TENNIS 198,793
41 GBA MARIO BROS 3: MARIO 4 197,773
42 PS2 SW: BATTLEFRONT 196,667
43 GCN THE SPONGEBOB MOVIE 193,650
44 GBA KIRBY AMAZING MIRROR 192,852
45 PS2 NCAA FOOTBALL 2005 180,833
46 XBX NBA LIVE 2005 178,885
47 PS2 KILLZONE 171,062
48 GCN THE INCREDIBLES 169,537
49 PS2 JAK II 164,673
50 PS2 EYE TOY: ANTIGRAV 162,728
51 PS2 SONIC MEGA COLL PLUS 162,179
52 PS2 TIGER WOODS PGA 2005 161,052
53 XBX ESPN NFL 2K5 159,994
54 PS2 GOLDENEYE:ROGUE AGENT 159,789
55 GCN NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 158,473
56 XBX ESPN NBA 2K5 157,968
57 PS2 SPONGEBOB: BATTLE 156,166
58 PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO:VICE 155,122
59 PS2 LEMONY SNICKET'S 155,106
60 GBA NAMCO MUSEUM 154,453
61 XBX HALO 152,976
62 GCN SUPER SMASH BRO MELEE 152,962
63 PS2 X-MEN: LEGENDS 151,875
64 PS2 SOCOM II: NAVY SEALS 151,293
65 PS2 NEED SPEED: UNDERGRND 151,220
66 PS2 DDR EXTREME KONAMI OF AMERICA 150,935
67 PS2 NCAA MARCH MDNSS 2005 150,749
68 PS2 ACE COMBAT 5: UNSUNG 149,082
69 GCN SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE 146,104
70 GCN MADDEN NFL 2005 143,677
71 PS2 ESPN COLLEGE HOOP 2K5 142,973
72 GCN ZELDA: THE WIND WAKER 141,663
73 PS2 NFL STREET 2 139,015
74 GBA MARIO PINBALL LAND 137,152
75 XBX TOURNAMENT PAINTBALL 136,545
76 PS2 LORD RINGS: THIRD AGE 136,466
77 XBX TONY HAWK UNDERGRND 2 133,409
78 PS2 AMERICAN CHOPPER 132,811
79 GBA THAT'S SO RAVEN 131,200
80 XBX SW: KNIGHTS REPUBLIC 128,600
81 PS2 RATCHET & CLANK:GOING 128,475
82 PS2 SLY 2:BAND OF THIEVES 128,377
83 GBA LEMONY SNICKET'S 128,159
84 PS2 SIMPSONS: HIT & RUN 128,145
85 GBA SPIDER-MAN:THE MOVIE2 128,067
86 PS2 SHREK 2 126,364
87 GBA LIZZIE MCGUIRE 2 122,320
88 GCN DONKEY KONGA W/BONGOS 121,574
89 XBX FABLE 121,301
90 PS2 MORTAL KOMBATECEPTN 121,207
91 XBX HALO 2 LIMITED ED 120,367
92 XBX SW: BATTLEFRONT 119,573
93 GBA SHREK 2:BEG FOR MERCY 118,996
94 GCN SONIC MEGA COLLECTION 117,247
95 PS2 TONY HAWK UNDERGROUND 116,770
96 GBA SUPER MARIO CLASSIC 116,560
97 XBX GOLDENEYE:ROGUE AGENT 116,494
98 PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS 116,399
99 GCN SPIDER-MAN:THE MOVIE2 113,896
100 PS2 THE URBZ:SIMS IN CITY 113,291


Valve's Half-Life 2 has sold over 1.7 million copies across the globe.


GTA:San Andreas PC version may reach 4.5 Million sales.

Funny, The #1 selling Console game still under sold the #4 PC game for the last 12 months. But when the Top sonsole comes to the PC in only one day they are talking sales almost 4 times higher than the console.

[th33f.]

Originally posted by RWG.Jackal:Funny, The #1 selling Console game still under sold the #4 PC game for the last 12 months. But when the Top sonsole comes to the PC in only one day they are talking sales almost 4 times higher than the console.


hah! and that's considering millions of people who simply burn their single player games...

[yttocs1966]

just mt thoughts, ubi pulled dev team off pc to get console out in time= consoles come first.so now grin is working on it(outsourced). they got start up money and will be payed a % of sales.that way UBI has min. risk max. profit .grin will probably want to make the best game they can.only problem is UBI still has final say to whats in it.so no matter who makes it its still a ubi game.(grin=scapegoat).

[Alex_HS]

Originally posted by WhiteKnight77:
Alex, look at Ubi's press release about GR3. They are the ones telling us it will be shipped for 5 different platforms all at the same time. Just because they released the info now doesn't mean that they just started the game. Now if Ubi has since changed proposed release dates for any version, by all means, please post a link to it. I nor has anyone else seen such news. If it were, the uproar would be deafening from the PC camp.


Originally posted by UbiRazz:
Considering that the PC version of GR3 is based upon the Xbox 360 one (engine-wise, it’ll be changed in order to make it more appealing for you guys) it’s pretty much impossible for it to be finished first.

There you have it, the PC version will be based on the 360 one but with a diferent engine, so they will definetly finish the console version first, you dont think they would delay the 360 release because the PC version isnt finished yet right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif?

Now what puzzles me is what gameplay diferences will there be betwean the two engines (yeti/diesel) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif, and why will they base the PC game on the 360 one when everybody already showned poor interest in urban warfare in mexico city (really, worst idea ever..), also using a diferent game engine because of gameplay diferences makes no sence at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif.

Far has i can tell this will be the last nail in GR's coffin, every small bit of information we heard this far is far from encouraging or promissing. Its almost like Ubisoft doesnt really expect to achieve much with GR PC games in a very self defeating attittude, this series could have grown into something great..

[WhiteKnight77]

Here is some info, the XBox version has been in development for more than a year. While both versions will share a storyline, they will play different and not share an engine. GRIN, using their engine (they do not need engine development time as it is already built) has been working on the game for sometime too. They didn't just start when the press release was issued. Ubi can get both versions on the shelf at the same time. My best guess, GRIN has been working on the PC version at least a year.

Ubi has also stated that the PC version will feature tactical gameplay while the XBox version gets an action oriented version.

Remember, I may know a few things, but if I do, I can't say anything.

[Alex_HS]

We all know that WK, and 1 year isnt alot, i would expect 2.5 to 3 years for a decent game because even if they have a engine they are familiar with they never did any fps with it, im not sure on this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif. Plus the whole storyline aproach is enough not to capture much atention, if they split development for both platforms (wich is obviously good)they could aswell change the theme and scenario to something we like better. People could end up purchasing both games.

[WhiteKnight77]

Just remember, I am playing a wait and see game too. I want to see a demo that I can play before I lay out hard cash.

[ZA_Corax]

I'm more than willing to wait and see, but a PC screenshot or two might not hurt (mutters to himself: "I really have doubts they have any screens shots at the present time...")

E&sup3 2005 has proven that the console market grown strong and if PC gamers are even so lucky they would only fall under a niche market. Alot of invested money has already been spent on the next generation consoles... everyone want a piece of that pie...

Why am I so glum? Still no light at the end of the GR PC tunnel...

[babydave]

there is no doubt if the game is being released in 2005 that the game will be in some sort of presentable state. a game like GR doesnt get made in the last 4 months. they DO know what the game will feature, if they dont the release will be 2006/07.

I dont wanna bring GR2 stuff up again, but it goes further than that, the PC crowd was abandoned with RVS as well, there is a trend here and we dont want it to continue.

and as wk said, they can release console stuff, but not a single PC screenshot, or even a concrete sentance about it? thats just weird.

[ColinCJ]

New project.
GRIN is currently working with Ubisoft to develop the PC version for the upcoming installment of one of the publisher’s major brands.

We at GRIN are excited and truly happy to be trusted with the development of this game and to bring the legacy forward on the PC. The name of the brand is a no brainer - but we leave it at that for the moment, going covert and stealthy just as it should be.

We want the fans to know that we are fans ourselves and are working hard to bring the classic feeling into the new product.

[silent_strike22]

We want the fans to know that we are fans ourselves and are working hard to bring the classic feeling into the new product.

maybe i will wait and see this one play out if that's there attitude. my fingers are crossed.

[ARDelta]

The complete lack of any info (screens, videos, etc.) for GR3 PC (not to mention Game Cube, PS2, and Xbox) is completely ridiculous.

[CDN_Angus]

Originally posted by ARDelta:
The complete lack of any info (screens, videos, etc.) for GR3 PC (not to mention Game Cube, PS2, and Xbox) is completely ridiculous.
After seeing the GR2PC debacle, I hope you weren't expecting to see anything different. Its the very same thing, very same lack of info as previously.

[Cobblers]

We want the fans to know that we are fans ourselves and are working hard to bring the classic feeling into the new product.

That is nice to hear. And as a fan of GR msyelf, I'd like to have some kind of proof of it's development, so me and my clan don't find ourselves waiting in anticpation for a game that may never arrive.

[ARDelta]

You're absolutely right, Angus. It's the exact same thing.

[Fury23]

I'm not expecting anything anymore from Ubi. This way I won't be dissapointed over and over and over again.

[MiRaGe..]

Wouldnt count on GR3 selling like hot cakes for GheyXbox360 after GR2 for GheyXbox was a shambles (havent played it on gheybox my self, but from movies etc)

People (fans) of the GR PC dont believe that GR3 is in dev after GR2 was supposed to be in dev and didnt even reach the shelves or a demo for that matter. Thats why a screenshot, trailer or something would give us that little something to say, yeah GR3 is in dev for PC oooo cant wait instead of thinking no info means no game like GR2.

[XyZspineZyX]

I have an XBOX and I won GR2 in a contest and I played it but I didn't like it that much cos it wasn't much like GR1. If all Ubi was going to do was make a PC port of the XBOX version then be glad that you didn't get one because it would be a waste of your money if you were looking for a GR1 sequel.

[GabRaz1981]

Thats why a screenshot, trailer or something would give us that little something to say, yeah GR3 is in dev for PC oooo cant wait instead of thinking no info means no game like GR2.


Actually if you go to grin's website, the first thing u see is a 4 pics together in a vertical line. The pics make out the SCAR rifle prototype, a rifle dedicated to special forces (like the Ghosts), the background is of someone's camo pants. So technically you've got the first screenshot right there......Huzzzah!!

[ZA_Corax]

As Bill Cosby would say "The proof is in the puddin'"...

I still don't see a light at the end of this tunnel.

[WhiteKnight77]

Originally posted by GabRaz1981:
Actually if you go to grin's website, the first thing u see is a 4 pics together in a vertical line. The pics make out the SCAR rifle prototype, a rifle dedicated to special forces (like the Ghosts), the background is of someone's camo pants. So technically you've got the first screenshot right there......Huzzzah!!

I can't make out what is in those pics. Being the size they are, I don't see how anyone could see what is in them either.

[GabRaz1981]

Just tilt your head to the left. (btw, don't take it seriously, it was a joke)

http://www.grin.se/images/soldier21.jpg
http://www.grin.se/images/soldier22.jpg
http://www.grin.se/images/soldier23.jpg
http://www.grin.se/images/soldier24.jpg


http://www.desant.com.ua/fotovoor/scar.jpeg

[WhiteKnight77]

I see some black shapes and some light colored shapes but nothing discernable. I can't make out a weapon from it.

[GabRaz1981]

lol, I guess I've been following the evolution of SCAR so closely that I see it everywhere now!

[Squall_Rifleman]

C'mon, WK! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I have never held a gun in my hands, and even I can say that's an assault rifle. I wouldn't be able to tell for sure what weapon is that (mostly because it's a new rifle to me), but that surely looks like a rifle.
Kinda hard to see with the forum's white background, but on Grin's site it is clearly visible.

[ZA_Corax]

Given that it is a rendered image for GR3 PC version. (only GR fans would piece those images, got to love 'em) Would it really kill anyone in UBI, RSE, or GRIN to post some proper screens?

All this aversion reminds me of what happened during the prequel of GR2 PC. C'mon be realistic why don't they just come out and say what they've got done at this point in time? I don't really want to discredit GRIN but they don't really have any FPS history as far as I can tell, sure they have their hands on some keen technology but still doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

I for one am not gonna sit around waiting for sloppy seconds... If the PC development is concurrent with Xbox 360 then its just fair to say they have material just waiting to be posted...

Plus with all the cash UBI has been 'raking-in', can't they hire a PR group to deal with issues such as these. (makes you wonder why they lost a large chunk of their market shares to their competitor)

[WhiteKnight77]

I can't see a weapon in those pics. Like I said, just colored shapes that are not discernable. I saw a pic of a certain XBox dev holding a SCAR and it does not look anything like what is seen in those pics.

[GabRaz1981]

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2791043913/m/91...941002723#8941002723 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2791043913/m/9151031423/r/8941002723#8941002723)

Seems I wasn't the only who noticed, btw got that pic of the devs with the scar somewhere?

[WhiteKnight77]

I am pretty sure we will have a special repoprt about a jaunt that RSE went on to VA with a certain SF operator that I have been known to quote and consult with from GR.net.

[davidz021]

WK: Maybe your browser is resizing the pictures or maybe your monitor's Brightness setting is too low; I can distinctly see the SCAR rifle in the pictures.


Originally posted by GabRaz1981:
Actually if you go to grin's website, the first thing u see is a 4 pics together in a vertical line. The pics make out the SCAR rifle prototype, a rifle dedicated to special forces (like the Ghosts), the background is of someone's camo pants. So technically you've got the first screenshot right there......Huzzzah!!

Nothing is a screenshot unless it has been officially confirmed as being a screenshot. The 4 pictures definitely don't indicate to me that GR3 will have SCARs nor is the picture a in-game screenshot.

[GabRaz1981]

"The 4 pictures definitely don't indicate to me that GR3 will have SCARs nor is the picture a in-game screenshot."

Like I said, take it as a joke. And if SCAR can make it into Summit Strike, I think it would be around in GR3.

[CDN_Angus]

That got me curious and went back to see if I could spot anything else on the Grin site. Hehe, and look what I found, nothing much but they are all on the site, just got to know where to look. Enjoy

http://www.teamcdn.com/postpics/grin1.gif http://www.teamcdn.com/postpics/grin2.gif http://www.teamcdn.com/postpics/grin3.gif

Obviously not in game footage, renders rather.

[SirBrass]

which shows that it's in the works, since to it seems to be a render of one of the game's models http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[GabRaz1981]

That's real cool, thanks for the pics Angus.

[ZA_Corax]

Originally posted by SirBrass:
which shows that it's in the works, since to it seems to be a render of one of the game's models http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

I think everyone is well aware that something is in the works, we're all waiting for tangible GR3 PC news... I grow weary of renderings (aren't you a tad bit curious how the new Diesel engine works à la GR3)... Pretty pictures are good but they lack definitive answers, I need details.

Angus how did you ever find those other images? I browsed through their website and only found the close up.

[CDN_TwelveGauge]

Not to be a negative nelly here, oh wait, too late ... but why assume those renders are from GR3? They could be from any number of Grins' vast catalogue of games.

[davidz021]

I agree with TwelveGauge, those pics just don't...feel...render-y to me, somehow...a gut instinct.

And think about this from the logical side: IF those WERE renders, which would be the first time that GR3 renders were shown, don't you think the devs would make an public announcement about them, seeing as they already have an reputation of not releasing info? By showing renders on GRIN's website and not making a big show of it; that would be the same effect as releasing GR3 tomorrow, and telling no one that it has been released: Just doesn't make sense.

[XyZspineZyX]

Those other ones were easy to find.
You replaced the 21, 22, 23... with 11, 12... and 1, 2...

[splinterfactor]

that rendered dude looks like it was used with splintercell3 graphics...cuz splinter cell charaters and that dude looks EXACTLY the same...or shuld i say texture does...other than the uniform...the shades and everything look the same...and i liked sc3 cuz of no lagg so hopefully no lagg in this game 2

[Bunlover]

I have looked at these posted images quite closley and believe they are definatly GR3 images and not from another GRIN game. Look at the "lip" around the back of the soldiers neck - this uniform design can clearly be seen on the screen shots for the, ahem, console version. It is where the soldiers name appears.
But are they are PC or xbox specific?

UBIrazz highlights a very key point here in this forum when stating that xbox 360 is the biggest thing to happen this year. Consoles reach a huge audience, PC IMHO is becoming a "specialist" market.

I am gutted to say that I dont have a fuzzy feeling at all about PC GR3, and dont believe we will get it. UBI s a business. Right? Profit and loss. Xbox sales will give UBI what they need. sob

Bun anyone?

[Bunlover]

And think about this from the logical side: IF those WERE renders, which would be the first time that GR3 renders were shown, don't you think the devs would make an public announcement about them, seeing as they already have an reputation of not releasing info? By showing renders on GRIN's website and not making a big show of it; that would be the same effect as releasing GR3 tomorrow, and telling no one that it has been released: Just doesn't make sense.

I agree with the above, it is strange - perhaps GRIN are infact under a gagging order from UBI, and so a tiny little subtle indication is what they are trying to do with those images - to give us a little hope without getting grilled? Just a thought

[WhiteKnight77]

OK, now that I have had a chance to revisit GRIN's website (this past Monday on my Mom's computer with a resolution of 800x600 to my 1600x1200), I could make out a weapon instead of just colored blobs. It still doesn't look like what a certain XBox dev is holding at a recent shoot in VA (awaiting clearence from RSE/Ubi to post the report) though.