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atvman29
02-18-2008, 02:43 AM
Will you be able to go into the prone position in V2? I think that would be a welcome addition.

GSG_9_Rage
02-18-2008, 02:57 AM
No, you will not be able to go prone in Vegas 2.

KUF_Kazzuto
02-18-2008, 04:10 AM
yep prone's gone!

Saner1981
02-18-2008, 10:04 AM
that's whack! prone is hardcore, ya know? they should allow it, ya know? the LB isn't used for anything in MP, that could be the prone button, ya know? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TheUBERspectre
02-18-2008, 10:11 AM
Actually, sprint is the LB in Rainbow Six Vegas 2. So, actually, it is used now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Though, I don't see why they wouldn't add a prone button. Not like it really matters though, I never use it in games that actually do have a prone button.

RazorWind_NPPL
02-18-2008, 10:25 AM
I hear that most counter-terrorist, SRT, SWAT, dont usually go prone in the middle of CQC...

Leave that **** to an actual war game, its just not suited for Rainbow Six

Ermac2008
02-18-2008, 10:28 AM
I want prone back too, but I don't think it would be good for Vegas's gameplay.

GSG_9_Rage
02-18-2008, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
I hear that most counter-terrorist, SRT, SWAT, dont usually go prone in the middle of CQC...

Leave that **** to an actual war game, its just not suited for Rainbow Six

Snipers would go prone. The prone stance is the most accurate firing stance. Never would you see a sniper crouched.

Saner1981
02-18-2008, 10:40 AM
yeah oh well woulda been a nice feature. hey maybe it could be toggled through a hadoken control combination. like down to right and A+X or something lol. ah Vegas 2 will still be cool. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DOUBLESHOCK
02-18-2008, 11:11 AM
It wouldn't work with the cover system. There'd be no reason to go prone. Why lay out in the open when you could sit behind cover and still see everything without exposing yourself.

AWC_Pest
02-18-2008, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
I hear that most counter-terrorist, SRT, SWAT, dont usually go prone in the middle of CQC...

Leave that **** to an actual war game, its just not suited for Rainbow Six

Outdoor maps on Ravenshield lie Peaks could benefit from snipers going prone and covering an area. The tactics used by Rainbow Six operatives in the books include sniper cover and having to approach an area before CQB action takes place. Prone is entirely a needed part of true R6 gameplay and shouldn't have been removed...and cover mode should never have been added to replace peaking.

GSG_9_Rage
02-18-2008, 02:20 PM
But remember the first Rainbow Six? That didn't have prone. It was a great addition. What happened!?!

Mr.Hanky2005
02-18-2008, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
I hear that most counter-terrorist, SRT, SWAT, dont usually go prone in the middle of CQC...

Leave that **** to an actual war game, its just not suited for Rainbow Six

Snipers would go prone. The prone stance is the most accurate firing stance. Never would you see a sniper crouched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is true, but I think the prone should be restricted to snipers only, or it will become a camping fest.

RazorWind_NPPL
02-18-2008, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by Mr.Hanky2005:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
I hear that most counter-terrorist, SRT, SWAT, dont usually go prone in the middle of CQC...

Leave that **** to an actual war game, its just not suited for Rainbow Six

Snipers would go prone. The prone stance is the most accurate firing stance. Never would you see a sniper crouched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is true, but I think the prone should be restricted to snipers only, or it will become a camping fest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IF they brought prone back making it so only snipers could prone would be the way to go, but honestly snipers have really no significance in rainbow six anymore (i wish this was otherwise), so I would just leave it out altogether because I believe it would just make the gameplay suck. Prone belongs in a more open game like GRAW, CQC is what this game is based around

xoops
02-18-2008, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
... but honestly snipers have really no significance in <STRIKE>rainbow six</STRIKE> <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">HALO</span> anymore (i wish this was otherwise),


Fixed!


Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
I would just leave it out altogether because I believe it would just make the gameplay suck. Prone belongs in a more open game like GRAW, CQC is what this game is based around

Could you please check one of those two vids (they have the same content):

SAS Snipers Training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgQsE4Khmbk)

SAS sniper and assault (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8GjZtKP1G4)

atvman29
02-18-2008, 04:00 PM
well i was just playing attack and defend @ calypso (of course) and I was just thinking it'd be sweet to go prone with a sniper over by the left rappel and snipe those dudes up on the pad but I don't know it won't ruin the game not having it

RazorWind_NPPL
02-18-2008, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by xoops:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
... but honestly snipers have really no significance in <STRIKE>rainbow six</STRIKE> <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">HALO</span> anymore (i wish this was otherwise),


Fixed!


Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
I would just leave it out altogether because I believe it would just make the gameplay suck. Prone belongs in a more open game like GRAW, CQC is what this game is based around

Could you please check one of those two vids (they have the same content):

SAS Snipers Training (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgQsE4Khmbk)

SAS sniper and assault (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8GjZtKP1G4) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alright fine, i'll concede, snipers are used in counter-terrorist situations...
Now if you would please let me know which map in rainbow six you would like to employ these tactics.... there are none because thats not the way the game is set up. There is the occasional long hallway but nowhere that an assault rifle with a scope wouldn't serve you better.

xoops
02-18-2008, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
Alright fine, i'll concede, snipers are used in counter-terrorist situations...
Now if you would please let me know which map in rainbow six you would like to employ these tactics.... there are none because thats not the way the game is set up. There is the occasional long hallway but nowhere that an assault rifle with a scope wouldn't serve you better.

Speaking strictly of Raven Shield and its expansion packs (in single player), the maps I can think of are:

Stock:
Oil Refinery
Shipyard
(MP) Lumber Yard
Kliment Ohridski University
Military Installation
(Classic) Cold Thunder

Custom maps:
Ancient Temple
DP Desal
SriLanka
Stone Set Luxury

Not a whole lot I agree, but I'd like to point out that while there are about 15 or 16 assault specialists in RvS, there are only 5 snipers. This is representative of the fact that you obviously don't need snipers in every mission, but when they find a good use, they REALLY are of good use.

On those occasions, could I use a assault specialist with an assault rifle instead of a sniper? Most of the time, yes. But if I really want to improve my chances of succeeding the mission, I'll use the sniper. For instance, the shipyard mission is easier if I kill from the outside the sniper watching the containers area through the large window. I use a sniper with a gas or flashbang grenade and I kill him from the distance. Could I proceed otherwise and without a sniper? Of course, but it's just easier the sniper way.

And just so you know, on the ''Lumber Yard'' map of Athena Sword, I can kill 75% or 80% of the tangos with a sniper in the Terro Hunt mode. And playing Hostage Rescue on this same map has a greater chance of success if you kill the executioner tango by firing a long shot through one of the large windows from the outside.

On the classic mission ''Cold Thunder'' (in Iron Wrath), I can kill everybody with my sniper without entering the house. I begin by killing everyone outside, and then I slowly circle the house from the edges of the map and kill any tango I see through a window. There is a hostage with an executioner on the second floor. If you place your sniper character at a precise point, you can see the top of the head of the executioner through the window. POW! No excuse me, I should say ''pof'' instead since I use the AW Covert. I can kill almost everybody except the executioner in the basement that way. When this is done, there is a little script that makes the second executioner come to me. Pof! I don't even have to risk the lives of my assault guys by sending them inside the house... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Okay, I agree it wouldn't be that easy in real life, but its fun nonetheless.

But anyway, nobody forces you to use snipers. Like nobody forces anyone to use the planning phase. The real beauty of the old R6 is that it can be played so many different ways. It then has a HUGE replayability. I'm all for the more the merrier.

Dr__Cube
02-18-2008, 08:41 PM
Snipers would go prone. The prone stance is the most accurate firing stance. Never would you see a sniper crouched.

Beat me to it.

Prone should be in the game, even for people with assault rifles and SMGs. Restricting common movements/motions/stances in the name of gameplay is wrong. If I want to go prone with a pistol while I am riding an elevator...well...that's my prerogative.

Picking and choosing certain movements is the type of thinking that kept the sprint feature out of R6V1. The designers may have been worried about players running all over the place but I don't care. I am playing as a special forces operative in peak physical condition. A grenade has just landed at my feet. You're telling me that I have to walk my way out of the blast radius? What is wrong here? Is this a skill that my drill instructors trained out of me?

RazorWind_NPPL
02-18-2008, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by xoops:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
Alright fine, i'll concede, snipers are used in counter-terrorist situations...
Now if you would please let me know which map in rainbow six you would like to employ these tactics.... there are none because thats not the way the game is set up. There is the occasional long hallway but nowhere that an assault rifle with a scope wouldn't serve you better.

Speaking strictly of Raven Shield and its expansion packs (in single player), the maps I can think of are:

Stock:
Oil Refinery
Shipyard
(MP) Lumber Yard
Kliment Ohridski University
Military Installation
(Classic) Cold Thunder

Custom maps:
Ancient Temple
DP Desal
SriLanka
Stone Set Luxury

Not a whole lot I agree, but I'd like to point out that while there are about 15 or 16 assault specialists in RvS, there are only 5 snipers. This is representative of the fact that you obviously don't need snipers in every mission, but when they find a good use, they REALLY are of good use.

On those occasions, could I use a assault specialist with an assault rifle instead of a sniper? Most of the time, yes. But if I really want to improve my chances of succeeding the mission, I'll use the sniper. For instance, the shipyard mission is easier if I kill from the outside the sniper watching the containers area through the large window. I use a sniper with a gas or flashbang grenade and I kill him from the distance. Could I proceed otherwise and without a sniper? Of course, but it's just easier the sniper way.

And just so you know, on the ''Lumber Yard'' map of Athena Sword, I can kill 75% or 80% of the tangos with a sniper in the Terro Hunt mode. And playing Hostage Rescue on this same map has a greater chance of success if you kill the executioner tango by firing a long shot through one of the large windows from the outside.

On the classic mission ''Cold Thunder'' (in Iron Wrath), I can kill everybody with my sniper without entering the house. I begin by killing everyone outside, and then I slowly circle the house from the edges of the map and kill any tango I see through a window. There is a hostage with an executioner on the second floor. If you place your sniper character at a precise point, you can see the top of the head of the executioner through the window. POW! No excuse me, I should say ''pof'' instead since I use the AW Covert. I can kill almost everybody except the executioner in the basement that way. When this is done, there is a little script that makes the second executioner come to me. Pof! I don't even have to risk the lives of my assault guys by sending them inside the house... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Okay, I agree it wouldn't be that easy in real life, but its fun nonetheless.

But anyway, nobody forces you to use snipers. Like nobody forces anyone to use the planning phase. The real beauty of the old R6 is that it can be played so many different ways. It then has a HUGE replayability. I'm all for the more the merrier. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Congratulations, we're talking about rainbow six vegas, and the game has changed a lot since raven shield, i miss it too

Muhad
02-19-2008, 05:54 AM
PC programmers have no idea what they are doing these days.

Quadx112
02-19-2008, 06:33 AM
from my experience it's harder too shoot out of prone than when crouched or standing, especially with guns that have a large magazine. but im just talking about my small caliber airrifle (yes, it is a REAL gun) :P
And in Close quarters i dont think they would take the time to lay down, maybe in larger maps but still... it just doesnt fit in Rainbow six. If your more into army games with laying down etc. go play Ghost recon AW

W..O..L..F
02-19-2008, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Muhad:
PC programmers have no idea what they are doing these days.

funny post: why dont you make a game and show them how its done mate, remember to make it cross platform for more finicial reward...

xoops
02-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RazorWind_NPPL:
Alright fine, i'll concede, snipers are used in counter-terrorist situations...

Now if you would please let me know which map in <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">rainbow six</span> you would like to employ these tactics....

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">My answer...</span>

Congratulations, we're talking about rainbow six vegas, and the game has changed a lot since raven shield, i miss it too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your question was about <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Rainbow Six</span>, not Vegas. Vegas is not Rainbow Six, so I've answered your question with the highest rigour. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Sadly, I have to confess you that I have a tendency to talk about intelligent games, so excuse me in advance for that habit I have to always forget about Vegas and talk about the true R6 games.

Now, I want to add that I agree with Dr__Cube that going prone should be allowed for any operative, sniper or not. For instance, in the R6 book, the Swiss bank episode has Rainbows trying to walk crouched under a large window in order to avoid being seen by the tangos inside the bank. They were able to just crouch but what would they have done if the window had been lower? In the game, a similar scenario could also happen where you might wish to reach a strategic entrance of firing point but you have to go there by crawling in order to avoid detection.

Just for fun many months ago, I have done many Raven Shield missions with only ONE operative, and in order to succeed the ''Meat Packing 2'' mission, I really had to reach a specific point on the map in the ultimate stealthy way. Doing it by crawling was an essential requirement to succeed and if I had not been allowed to go prone, then I wouldn't have succeeded the mission.

Again, like Dr__Cube and Hatchetforce have said before me, if a real operative can do it, then the R6 characters should do it. It also applies to jumping like Hatchetforce has explained in this post (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1991064316/m/3021029236?r=4051074436#4051074436). How many times have I been blocked by the ''textures'' drawn on the floor in Raven Shield? Okay, I'm caricaturing of course, but not that much.

I think the problem with the implementation of jumping in Raven Shield was the friendly AI though. I mean, you can order the AI teamates to wait in some spot, then you can go anywhere else on the map, and then you can call them and they will join you wherever you are. They can do it because the mapper has put some invisible waypoints or path nodes on the ground and on the ladders so that the path finding algorithm will use these path nodes to enable the AI to find the shortest path to reach you.

On the other hand, if you are allowed to jump from rooftops to rooftops, that brings a serious challenge. Could the mappers set path nodes in the air with the Unreal Engine? Or would the AI be able to walk over a complex terrain (rocks and cracks everywhere) where some small jumps are required from time to time? Would the AI be smart enough to figure out how to adequately jump by itself? I don't know, but I'm just suggesting a reason where a given feature (in this case, path finding algorithms for the friendly AI) may conflict with another feature (jumping). I would really appreciate to get the exact answer to this hypothesis, but I know any question to the devs would fall on deaf ears.

RazorWind_NPPL
02-19-2008, 07:33 PM
Yeah i agree it really would be nice to be able to do anything a real operative could, but honestly, if you look at the trends the rainbow six games are taking you'll see more of hollywood theatrics than real world tactics. And since this is the case the last thing I want to see in the game is everyone prone in there favorite corner waiting for someone to come rolling around the corner so they can pop em' or start mashing the B button. And this would happen trust me. Most people that play this game dont even play the old school way without respawns... so I dont see prone adding to the game as much as taking away some fun

AntiPersonnel
02-19-2008, 07:54 PM
i think if they modeled the whole game around a more realistic approach, the prone and even jumping would work. they need to account for all the pros/cons of both and how it relates to a realistic world bound by laws of physics.

doesnt necessarily mean the game would be super hard or boring with "too much realism". i think the opposite. i think by adding more realistic elements, the gameplay is ENHANCED.

i feel like right now, when i play my character is kinda restricted, and this is compensated in very supernatural ways that dont add up, or they just dont make sense logically.

rojasaga1960
02-19-2008, 10:46 PM
im with razorwind on this one, fine its realistic and by all means add prone to single player mode, but mp? snipe fest/camp fest springs to mind. the view hatchet force gave on jumping is a valid one, if they made it so you could jump over things but when jumping you could not fire a weapon of toss a frag you would probably get the best of both worlds.