So Shogun 2 is out...anyone got it?

[Ba5tard5word]

Review of it calling it the best Total War game so far...

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/str...totalwar/review.html (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/shogun2totalwar/review.html)

Looks pretty good. I guess I'll get it at some point to help me wait for COD. I liked Rome a lot and it became quite a time sink for me for a few weeks, but then I got kind of burned out on it because you're just kinda doing the same thing over and over again. I got Medieval 2 and I didn't like how it felt like Rome--almost the same unit types as in Rome--but it felt a lot more slowed down and more of a slog because battles would take forever especially in a castle where you could send in a massive army in and a few enemy units would slaughter all of my guys.

I guess I'll get this one and try it out though I'm curious about how much the battles and units feel the same to the ones in Rome or Medieval 2.

[steiner562]

Original Shogun was the only one of the series I've played properly, I did purchase Rome but got bored of it in less than a month, are the reviews any good?

[Ba5tard5word]

Well I posted that review...they gave it a 9 out of 10. You can no doubt get other reviews from Metacritic or just googling.

Also by the way you can get it as a download from Amazon for $39.99...Steam has it for $50. Even if you get it from Amazon the game requires you to use Steam, so I think I'll get it from Amazon!

[WTE_Googly]

I've heard from a couple of people who have it. They reckon that the battles are a joke and are generally over in about 5 minutes. Am definately waiting until it's on special and after heavy modding.

Quote from GP forums

"
I definitely dont recommend this game to anyone who like TW for the battles. it is extremely fast paced arcade rubbish. Once contact has been made i haven't had a battle last more that 3 minutes. I play in slow mo and it is still to fast. Cavalry is especially insane with movement speed, although i have been blocked in a circle from left all the way around to right by a single infantry unit keeping up the whole way, even though my cav is running a larger circle that is not legit at all. No one keeps up with a horse at gallop/canter, esp not a fully armored unit of samurai. My cav Just ended up swapping sides.

Campaign map is awesome however aside from feeling small to me compared to Rome/M2/Empire others.
"

[ytareh]

Have played them all and downloaded this demo...it does NOTHING for me as an exclusively battle player...little or no interest or knowledge in era /factions ...maybe it could be modded into something good ,for sure it looks great ...

[Treetop64]

I'm revisiting the Big Map Mod on the original Total War. Still the best one out of the series, IMHO.

[Ba5tard5word]

Well I installed it last night and have been playing it for a bit. It's definitely a very beautiful game though when you zoom in units look a bit cruddy because there's no AA, but that is supposed to be patched within a couple weeks.

Overall the game seems similar to any TW game I've played in the way you construct buildings that improve your provinces or let you build units, the way you deal with taxes, the way you move around and get into battles etc. Units are just about the same--cavalry, archery, sword and spear units with the same pros and cons of other games. Apparently each faction basically uses the same exact units, which is a bit disappointing because I never liked this about TW games--yes they'd have some differences but they'd all still have cavalry/archery/sword/spear units without much variation, and maybe some unique faction units like head throwers which weren't too useful. Shogun 2 I guess doesn't even have that but I don't have enough experience to know just how similar the factions are to one another. But each faction does have different pros and cons, like one faction might have the best archers and farms, and another has the best shipbuilding and naval units, so there's that.

Battles are pretty similar to Rome and Medieval 2--try and hold up the enemy with infantry, whittle them down with archers, and flank them with cavalry to break them up. Yes battles are short but they were usually really short in Rome--just rush the enemy with the above tactic and most battles in Rome were pretty short other than sieges. I didn't like how Medieval 2 felt like a slog because units would take forever to kill one another and cause routing, especially in sieges which usually turned into a boring meat-grinder. Shogun 2 seems more like Rome where battles are quick and evolve very fast. The AI can be tricky, like fooling you into making a frontal assault then sending in cavalry that were hiding in some woods, or waiting until you're off dealing with some rebels in another part of your fief then attacking your castle--this just happened to me but I was able to beat 1311 enemies with 775 men in my castle, causing 884 casualties, then after a few turns I attacked their castle and took it as revenge.

So overall not really an evolution of the TW series but I'm enjoying it, it improves the stuff I didn't like about Medieval 2 and feels kind of like a more updated version of Rome. Also there's a lot of background stuff you can do like tech research, diplomacy, ninja assassins, dealing with European traders and missionaries, etc that I haven't really had to deal with but sounds fun.

[Airmail109]

Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Well I installed it last night and have been playing it for a bit. It's definitely a very beautiful game though when you zoom in units look a bit cruddy because there's no AA, but that is supposed to be patched within a couple weeks.

Overall the game seems similar to any TW game I've played in the way you construct buildings that improve your provinces or let you build units, the way you deal with taxes, the way you move around and get into battles etc. Units are just about the same--cavalry, archery, sword and spear units with the same pros and cons of other games. Apparently each faction basically uses the same exact units, which is a bit disappointing because I never liked this about TW games--yes they'd have some differences but they'd all still have cavalry/archery/sword/spear units without much variation, and maybe some unique faction units like head throwers which weren't too useful. Shogun 2 I guess doesn't even have that but I don't have enough experience to know just how similar the factions are to one another. But each faction does have different pros and cons, like one faction might have the best archers and farms, and another has the best shipbuilding and naval units, so there's that.

Battles are pretty similar to Rome and Medieval 2--try and hold up the enemy with infantry, whittle them down with archers, and flank them with cavalry to break them up. Yes battles are short but they were usually really short in Rome--just rush the enemy with the above tactic and most battles in Rome were pretty short other than sieges. I didn't like how Medieval 2 felt like a slog because units would take forever to kill one another and cause routing, especially in sieges which usually turned into a boring meat-grinder. Shogun 2 seems more like Rome where battles are quick and evolve very fast. The AI can be tricky, like fooling you into making a frontal assault then sending in cavalry that were hiding in some woods, or waiting until you're off dealing with some rebels in another part of your fief then attacking your castle--this just happened to me but I was able to beat 1311 enemies with 775 men in my castle, causing 884 casualties, then after a few turns I attacked their castle and took it as revenge.

So overall not really an evolution of the TW series but I'm enjoying it, it improves the stuff I didn't like about Medieval 2 and feels kind of like a more updated version of Rome. Also there's a lot of background stuff you can do like tech research, diplomacy, ninja assassins, dealing with European traders and missionaries, etc that I haven't really had to deal with but sounds fun.

I and a lot of others hated the arcadey Rome and much prefered the previous games and the latter Medieval 2.

So I may steer clear of this one.

[Low_Flyer_MkIX]

Rome is a totalwarrilly different kettle of unrefined garum when mods are applied.

Some very nice mods available for MTW2, but modded Rome still kicks its' arse. Indeed, I uninstalled MTW2 to accommodate more modded Roman goodness. I was so irked by what I saw of the later Total Wars that I didn't bother. I fear Shogun will share the same fate.

[ytareh]

I think Medieval 2 is still my fave .

[Ba5tard5word]

After playing it for the last couple days, I'm definitely enjoying it a lot. You have to be REALLY careful about how you manage your fiefs compared to Rome where you'd always have tons of money and could build whatever you want, in this you have to make sure you have enough food production which has really been killing me, and it's hard to make any money, it seems like taking over a fief doesn't increase your income a lot like in previous games. Ninja assassins are fun to use to muck up the enemy by wounding or killing their generals before they try to roll on you with a full stack. You can also use metsuke which are some sort of police but I haven't tried them yet. You can also use geisha assassins but I haven't been able to get the building that creates them yet.

Overall if you've played other TW games you'll feel at home. It feels like they've combined the challenging economy of Medieval 2 with the quick and fluid battles of Rome. But the way you have to be really careful about taking over fiefs and managing your economy is really new and it feels like it's much harder to become a freewheeling juggernaut compared with Medieval 2 and Rome. You can't just build up a couple of full stack armies and go around conquering everything, you're lucky to be able to get one full stack, oh yeah and everyone surrounding you just declared war on you.

[Ba5tard5word]

I really am liking this game a lot. Much deeper than Rome and it doesn't have the sort of military and diplomatic irrationality that Medieval 2 had. I gave up on my first playthrough as the Chosokabe because I totally messed up my economy by assuming I could just play it like Rome, and I didn't have enough money to do anything. I restarted as the Date and figured out how to do trading, and made lots of money and have taken over about 3/5ths of Japan and became Shogun last night. Four more provinces to capture I think and I "win" the game but as with other TW games there's still a lot to do.

[huggy87]

Has the diplomacy gotten any better? That was my biggest beef with the TW series. Everyone would declare war on you and they would never accept peace terms, even when completly overwhelmed. If I remember correctly, RTW was the worst culprit. ETW got a little better, which made sense. Nations were constantly in and out of war in the 18th century.

Any idea what is on the horizon next for the TW team? I really hope they return to the ancient world. That would make sense, since they have done medieval europe and Japan now times 2.

[Ba5tard5word]

I've heard rumors that they'd do Rome 2, but that's just rumors.

As for diplomacy in S2, I find it works a lot better than Rome or Medieval 2. You actually have an incentive to use it because it works and it protects you and keeps you wealthier. If you make an alliance, enemies generally won't go back on their word and attack you a couple turns later. And if you make an alliance then attack that ally later on, your daimyo gets "dishonor" which reduces your diplomacy points--stuff you do like honoring treaties, expanding your territory, different religion etc affects your ability to get other clans to go along with your diplomatic requests. If you're surrounded by other clans it's important to form alliances so you can lessen your exposure to being surrounded by enemies who are constantly attacking you.

Even if you aren't allied with clans, it's important to stay on their good side so you can trade with them. Trade is super important, without it you won't have any money. So overall you have to balance alliances, trading with allies and neutral clans, and expanding your empire by attacking other clans. Eventually you get hit with "Realm Divide" which is where the Shogun decides you're a threat and every clan declares war on you and basically there's no point in doing diplomacy, but by that point you should be so big and powerful that you can deal with it, but your income takes a big hit from not being able to trade with anyone. I guess it's a way for CA to keep the endgame interesting and not a pushover.