Decorations Are Wrong and....

[MoreMP]

First let me say I am extremely pleased with this game!

I really started getting into the character of this game until I got back from my first mission in 1939 and awards from 1944 started to get handed out.

As an expert in German Military decorations, I would like to offer the following recomendations to see if a patch can fix this:

Here is what happend to me on my 6th mission (1940). I sunk two merchants and when I got back I was awarded the Knights Cross with Oakleaves 'AND' Knights Cross with Oakleaves and Swords 'AND' the German Cross. These awards were not yet available for this timeline.

Awarding of the U-Boot Kriegsabzeichen (U-Boat Badge)should not be awarded until on or after the second sortie.

Awarding of the Kriegsorden Des Deutschen Kreuzes (War Order of the German Cross)
should not be available until its inseption date of 28.September.1941. Hense the date 1941 on the gold wreath.

Awarding of the U-Boots Frontspange (U-Boat Combat Clasp) should not be available until its inseption date of 15.May.1944 for the BRONZE and later the SILVER on 24.November.1944. This had to be personnaly approved by Grossadmiral Karl Donitz.

The addition of the Ehrentafelspange der Kriegsmarine (Honour Roll Clasp of the Navy). This award was available on 13.May.1944. The Iron Cross 1st and 2nd classes must already have been won.

Ritterkreuze des Eisernes Kreuze 1.Sept.1939
Eichenlaub (Oakleaves) 19.July.1940
Schwerten (Swords) 21.June.1941
Brillianten (Diamonds) 15.July.2941

[DegreeAbsolute]

Wow. I'll sign on. Good research!

[Beeryus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoreMP:
I really started getting into the character of this game until I got back from my first mission in 1939 and awards from 1944 started to get handed out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too. I'm actually working on a mod that makes medals more realistic, although the way they are implemented there's not much chance of making them truly realistic until we find someone capable of writing a program to alter the config files based on career date.

What I'm doing in the meantime is making the U-Boat Badge get awarded at a rate of about 20 per patrol, so trhat after two patrols everyone will have one.

The Uboot frontspange is the nastiest one. Basically, in order to have it appear in 1944 I'll have to make it really hard to get, and even then it may appear earlier or too late. There's no way to tie it down to a date. It might be easier to just remove it from the game.

The German Cross and the Knights Cross upgrades will be easier to make reasonably accurate - it's just a matter of making them require more work to get them. It still doesn't guarantee accuracy, but it will be a start.

[hauitsme]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>MoreMP:
As an expert in German Military decorations... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since when were awards/decorations handed out like candy at a fair?

At the rate this 'game' hands them out, my crew and officers won't be able to climb any ladders or even walk upright because of the weight of them.

[Beeryus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>MoreMP:
As an expert in German Military decorations... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Since when were awards/decorations handed out like candy at a fair?

At the rate this 'game' hands them out, my crew and officers won't be able to climb any ladders or even walk upright because of the weight of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely right. There is a problem with the game awarding higher level decorations waaaay too quickly. There's also a problem with the game not handing out the Uboat war badge as quickly as they were in reality. I'm hoping to make the medal situation at least a bit more realistic in the mod I'm working on.

[Dunbal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hauitsme:


At the rate this 'game' hands them out, my crew and officers won't be able to climb any ladders or even walk upright because of the weight of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look on the bright side, maybe with all that extra weight your dive time will be reduced? Good for getting under the waves quick when you spot enemy aircraft... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[forager1971]

i have made note of this as well. i have the knights cross with gold leaves, swords, and diamonds. only problem is it is march 1942.

which brings up the next question has anyone gotten other awards after receiving that one?????

[quillan]

You mean the captain's medals? I got the Knights Cross with Golden Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds a while back, and the patrol before this one, I was awarded the U-boat Front Clasp. There was quite a gap between the two.

[RedTerex]

Thats nothing.
I promoted an Officer twice and he outranked me LOL.

So I just stood there for hours wating for him to tell me to go to Full speed and nothing happend. J/K !

[Beeryus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedTerex:
Thats nothing.
I promoted an Officer twice and _he_ outranked _me_ LOL. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the other thing that's bothersome: the game starts you off as a Leutnant zur See, but I don't think any U-Boat commander ever had the rank of Leutnant zur See. They all started at Oberleutnant zur See. In my game I changed the requirement for the Oberleutnant rank to 0 so that it comes immediately, but you don't get to see it until after the first patrol. I guess there's a sort of realism to that though, since usually the rank appointment usually came before the commander got his uniform changed.

[TASKFORCE1x1]

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Messervy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by forager1971:
i have made note of this as well. i have the knights cross with gold leaves, swords, and diamonds. only problem is it is march 1942.

which brings up the next question has anyone gotten other awards after receiving that one????? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! I got U-boot clasp and a front badge AFTER my RK with golden oak leaves, swords and diamonds. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

[Grauwulf]

Good topics!
Not having the major bugs mentioned on this formum myself, would like to see only some realistic gameplay tweaking:

Correct commander rank: Beeryus please tell me how to change the rank (where are these codes and how do you open them... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif)

Correct medal: Super http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif that you work on a mod for this one, any progress? I'm just downloaded a correction from Kap Zig who changed the numbers of renown for medals, not sure yet if it works.

Would also like to see more complete radio updates.
especially a follow up on the first mission objectives. In this area AOD is still superior to SHIII, you were not left on your own on a patrol, even got messages from fellow U boots.

Not sure however if this could be reached in a Mod. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Beeryus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grauwulf:
Correct commander rank: Beeryus please tell me how to change the rank (where are these codes and how do you open them... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Open your Basic.cfg file (in the SH3\data\Cfg folder) using Wordpad, and change the 'RankLevel1' listing to equal 0. That will give every commander a promotion to Oberleutnant zur See after his first wartime patrol.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Correct medal: Super http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif that you work on a mod for this one, any progress? I'm just downloaded a correction from Kap Zig who changed the numbers of renown for medals, not sure yet if it works. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a medal mod I'm working on. I'm still testing it though (all it is right now is basically a doubling of the MedalScore numbers for all the medals after the Iron Cross 1st class). It needs a lot of testing because medals get awarded so infrequently. One thing you can do to get medals working a bit more realistically is to (again in Basic.cfg) change the RenownStep to 50 for the u-boat badge. That way you will be able to give the crew a u-boat badge after their second patrol, as was realistic.

[Otto-Kretschmer]

Nice medalpaints but the awarding system is this far really below all possible critics http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif. I hope that the gamemakers will read your important post http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

Read below and change:

Ritterkreuze des Eisernes Kreuze 1.Sept.1939
Eichenlaub (Oakleaves) 19.July.1940
Schwerten (Swords) 21.June.1941
Brillianten (Diamonds) 15.July.2941

[Otto-Kretschmer]

Beside that only one man in history been awarded the Knights cross with golden oakleaves, swords and diamonds (Stukapilot Rudel). This was with other words the highest decoration you could possible get. You had to be totaly outstanding so allmost non should be aviable to get this in Silent Hunter III.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by forager1971:
i have made note of this as well. i have the knights cross with gold leaves, swords, and diamonds. only problem is it is march 1942.

which brings up the next question has anyone gotten other awards after receiving that one????? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Grauwulf]

Thanks for the info Beeryus!

Will also try out some settings. A lot of possibility's I guess...

I would be very embarrassed when Dönitz handed me over the Ritterkreuz with Eichenlaub, Schwerten und Brillianten for sinking a fishersboat... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

[HeibgesU999]

The problem with modifying the way the medals are awarded is that the "medal" represents increase in skill and knowledge of warfighting.

So by awarding too many of one medal to make awards "realistic", you make the game too easy because there are many benefits associated with winning a medal.

The same could be said for awarding medals later or sooner. They represent abstract ideas so you have to be careful about changing.

[Beeryus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
by awarding too many of one medal to make awards "realistic", you make the game too easy because there are many benefits associated with winning a medal... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, but what you gain on the swings, you can lose on the roundabouts. For my version of the game I've made medals generally harder to get, with some medals not being awarded at all, while some are unchanged, and one (the U-Boat War Badge) gets issued straight away. The result is a nice balance, and I haven't noticed any of my men becoming supermen. The adjustments I've made don't even come close to the kind of effect that the 'fatigue mod' (for example) has on the crew's ability, so I don't think we need to worry too much about the medal situation, as long as we're going for realistic medal awards. If we were changing the medals so that each crewman got a ritterkreuz after every patrol, we might be wise to worry about that, but I don't see that happening.

[Gelignite]

This is my 15th patrol and they all senior seamen and officers have the same rank as i do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[malkuth]

Yeah this was mentioned before I think. Kinda silly they did this huh? I got all My knights Crosses in First 4 missions.

[PsychoFritz]

I just dusted off my "U-boat War" documentary DVD. Its a really good DVD since it has interviews with U-boat crew, aces, british crew from destroyers, and merchant crew.

Anyway there was a point in the DVD where Peter Peterson of U518 said that the captains who were close to getting 100,000 tons of shipping were said to have a "sore throat" because they were going to decorate their throat with knights cross for sinking 100,000 tons of shipping and therefore they were a little more aggressive than the crew liked. So according to this documentary...and a crew member of U518 the captain didn't get the Knights cross until they sunk 100,000 tons of shiping which the narrator said was their ambition during the first few years of the war when they sank 1/5 of the british merchant fleet.