Visual Quality comparisons- Xbox/PC specific: Not trolling, but not 56K friendly

[TheBrokenDog]

Since a lot of folks are concerned either how well their PC can handle this game, or how the PC and Xbox versions stack up, I'm going to do a bit of visual quality comparisons.

FYI: ALL SCREENS ARE FROM THE PC DEMO!!
I am artificially replicating the visual quality of the xbox based upon changing IQ settings, and quess work. Please be advised.

Furthermore, please be objective about these comparisons. It is my opinion both the PC and xbox releases look absolutely incredible, but all the same, I can't deny what I see. Furthermore, to achieve the absolute best visual quality of the PC version you NEED a very powerful system. Performance MAY be tweaked by game's release, but just asume that it will be until next generation hardware before you can comfortably max out IQ settings. Beyond that, even some more modest settings can drag down modern hardware.

Here are my system specs. Results may vary from one system configuration to the next.

AMD Athlon XP 2500+ @1.82ghz FSB @166DDR
512MB PC2700 DDR in dual-channel mode
Asus A7N8X-E deluxe, neforce2 mobo
PNY Verto GeForce 6800NU 16 pixel, 6 vertex 128MB

Xbox/Min spec PC comparison (@>60-80FPS on the above hardware)

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/1884/xbox640lowquality15vj.jpg
http://img64.exs.cx/img64/3159/xbox640lowquality37ru.jpg
http://img85.exs.cx/img85/2456/xbox640lowqualitysettings9ap.jpg
http://img85.exs.cx/img85/7174/xbox640lowqualitysettingsadv3m.jpg

Note the 'banding' (posterized gradiant) on the speculiar highlight applied to the wall and railing. It's very ugly in motion; however, do not be discouraged. There are few instances where this issue is so apparent. Furthermore, for Xbox owners, it would seem that interlacing on Television monitors would almost eliminate this. If you're on a low spec PC, it may be a better option to opt for an xbox, unless you preffer the mouse and keyboard controls. Much cheaper "upgrade" in the end, for 'perhaps' better IQ.

Next we have settings that I will typically run in. Note, comparisons can only be drawn between SM1.1, and SM3.0 ATM. Though it's feasible one could simulate the SM2.0 effects, I can not determine performance gains/losses.
Resolution for both screens 1024x768

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/5035/1024lowqualitysettingsadv5zv.jpg
http://img164.exs.cx/img164/2053/1024lowquality0hd.jpg
(1024x768, SM1.1 @ 30-65FPS)

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/9192/1024maxqualitysettingsadv3xi.jpg
http://img176.exs.cx/img176/5122/1024maxqualitysettingssm302in.jpg
http://img164.exs.cx/img164/9868/1024maxquality2cp.jpg
(1024x768, SM3.0(2.0?) features enabled @ 10-60)

First off, I have to address something. Anti-aliasing is NOT working. However, from these screens you may notice that it is not that much of an issue. Though there ARE instances where you will encounter some very nasty stair stepping, it just may not be worth the performance hit. Yes, inspite of AA not working, it still drops performance. This may be an issue with the demo, and will be remedied on release, or it is a driver issue particular to my card. Taking some screens into photoshop and applying a gausian blur (though not the same method of AA) produces some EXTREMELY beautiful imagery. So it has yet to be seen whether AA will be worthwihle for Chaos Theory, even at lower resolutions.

Next, I have to bring up HDR. SM2.0 will support this feature (I believe), so all Radeon 9XXX owners who are interested may be able to take advantage of this feature. From the above you can see it produces some rather dazelling effects. All of that "glow" around highlights is product of HDR. Though subtle, it makes for some impressive IQ... at a cost. Even with the supposed performance gains one receives from SM3.0, enabling HDR, and Tone Mapping (necessary for any noticable effect) drops performance some 5-10% if not much more. With frame rates already fluctuating wildly at higher resolutions, it may be an option most will have to forgo, even if it is supported in hardware. (GF5 Radeon 9600 and lower users, I'm looking in your direction...)

Bear in mind that most, if not all images have had brightness adjustments. Tones are not nearly as washed out in game, and there is margin for error in the adjustments I have made between the above images. IE: Brightness adjustments are not uniform between the above images (or any of them for that matter).

For those with a finely tuned 6800Ultra or ATi x800XT PE, top of the line CPU, tons of system bandwidth, and perhaps a disgusting ammount of memory... it's time to start salivating.

Following batch are all @ 1280x720 ('wide' format (I love this stuff) with all SM3.0 features enabled.
http://img147.exs.cx/img147/9496/1280widehighqualitysettings1hc.jpg
http://img147.exs.cx/img147/9967/1280widehighquality13kg.jpg
http://img147.exs.cx/img147/2633/1280widehighquality80tl.jpg
http://img171.exs.cx/img171/324/1280widehighquality222sp.jpg
http://img171.exs.cx/img171/9027/1280widehighquality301pu.jpg
http://img73.exs.cx/img73/5946/1280widehighquality318lz.jpg
http://img7.exs.cx/img7/7138/1280widehighqualitytherm23ry.jpg
http://img7.exs.cx/img7/8985/1280widehighqualitynvg17jx.jpg
http://img7.exs.cx/img7/2723/1280widehighqualitylethal20ty.jpg
http://img107.exs.cx/img107/1175/1280widehighqualitysplitjump29.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/9189/1280widehighqualityinvertneck1.jpg
http://img238.exs.cx/img238/3637/1280widehighqualitylethal44pp.jpg

In case you haven't yet realized, I love this wide aspect. When being viewed on a non-wide monitor, you're going to get the 'letterbox' effect (provided you adjust your monitor's control settings appropriately), but the increased viewing radius is beautiful. It carries a much more cinematic feel, and the already amazing camera becomes even more brilliant as it shifts Sam off to the side a little more, preventing important details from becoming obscured too much as you move about.

Performance doesn't drop much at all from 1024x768. Though, when with all options enabled, frame rates were dropping below a near unplayable theashold too frequently even at 1024. Disabling HDR effects, which makes me sad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif, produces very playable frame rates all the way up to 1280x1024 (I uh... don't have a decent enough monitor to test beyond that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). Anyone with a current generation ATi/nvidia card with 256MBs of video memory could likely scale even higher without any fear.

Having played both Xbox and PC demos, I have to say I am more impressed with the PC, by a substantial degree. Aside from improved resolution and textures (though I feel they could have been even higher res) some of the SM2.0+ effects are extremely impressive. Soft shadows are what SC has been begging for. HDR+Tone Mapping makes for an extremely vivid image, even in almost complete darkness. It's hard to tell from some of these screens, but in gameplay, HDR effects produce a dramatic improvement in clarity, such that you will be capable of pin pointing even subtle details in what "was" a near ink black shadow. I'm sure everyone noticed images with HDR enabled seemed "brighter" which is true, to an extent. Light areas tend to 'bleed', but they do not saturate dark colors. The result are appropriately dark darked, and appropriately light lights. Take another look at the 1024comparisons, and you should get a better idea of this.

Sadly, it's just a huge performance hog. As many games that could benefit visually from HDR, Splinter Cell gains a rather notable edge, because of it's heavy reliance on shadows, and lighting. Hopefully, for the PC users out there, Ubi will at some point fine tune this wonderful feature in a future patch.

Any way you slice it, Chaos Theory is an intensely beautiful game. Sure, PC users can enable High Dynamic Range effects, soft shadows, on top of improved textures, and filters, but I'm still floored by the Xbox. Given the performance hungry nature of the engine, it's hard to beat aproximately a 200-300$ for peace of mind. PC users may be in for "some" disappointment, not to say they should expect anything less than visuals on par with it's console counter-part. It's just that Chaos Theory does not perform like one would expect.

Everyone who has followed along this far, feel free to post screens and your specs/performance. I'd like to see how other people have faired, and see how various features effect different people. Happy gaming, everyone. March is going to be great!

[Nightmarecast24]

I seriously see no difference between PC and Xbox versions.

I may be blind but if there is a difference then I cannot see it.

[Jason-Alaska]

WOW! Thanks for that very indepth walkthrough of the different graphic options TheBrokenDog!!! Those are increadable screenshots!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Knot3D]

Thanx TheBrokenDog for the nice feature !

Can we manually enable and disable HDR in that settings menu ? Or do we have to edit it in the .ini files ?

These are my pc specs :

Pentium 4 Northwood 3,2 Ghz @ 3,4 Ghz
Asus socket 478 mobo fsb800 mhz
2 Gb Corsair Twinx DDR500 @ DDR400 by SPD
Maxtor Diamond 9Plus HD 80Gb 7200rpm
Gainward golden sample 6800GT @ 400/1100
currently back on Forceware 61.77

This rig gets me 12165 3DMark03 points. About 600 better on 67.03 with a slight IQ loss.

What settings would you recommend and what kinda performance do you think I'll get. Personally I 'm leaning towards 1600 x 1200 without AA and 8 AF. Dunno what Trilinear Filtering does. All other settings @ high. HDR is not a must for me, good framerates ARE however. Do you reckon my rig can pull an average of 40 to 60 f/ps on the settings I described ?

[Secret_Shadow13]

Is it just me or there is no difference?

[Osman_H]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Secret_Shadow13:
Is it just me or there is no difference? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
there is once he turns on HDR compare the lights, and once he puts on shader model 3.0 look at the cannon you can see more depth

[Secret_Shadow13]

i had a poroblem with that since dont know which pic is which.

[Osman_H]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Secret_Shadow13:
i had a poroblem with that since dont know which pic is which. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well look at the pics with SM 1.1 and compare to the pics with SM 3.0 and HDR on

[Secret_Shadow13]

No i mean which pic is from xbox and which is from the pc...

[NinjaHerbert]

Heeey... nice shots, BrokenDog. Those of us still without the PC demo are dying here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Can't wait to see that stuff in motion.

[Osman_H]

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/5035/1024lowqualitysettingsadv5zv.jpg
http://img164.exs.cx/img164/2053/1024lowquality0hd.jpg
(1024x768, SM1.1 @ 30-65FPS)

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/9192/1024maxqualitysettingsadv3xi.jpg
http://img176.exs.cx/img176/5122/1024maxqualitysettingssm302in.jpg
http://img164.exs.cx/img164/9868/1024maxquality2cp.jpg
(1024x768, SM3.0(2.0?) features enabled @ 10-60)


1st two pics are SM 1.1 and the last 3 are SM 3.0

[TheBrokenDog]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knot3D:
Can we manually enable and disable HDR in that settings menu ? Or do we have to edit it in the .ini files ?

These are my pc specs :

Pentium 4 Northwood 3,2 Ghz @ 3,4 Ghz
Asus socket 478 mobo fsb800 mhz
2 Gb Corsair Twinx DDR500 @ DDR400 by SPD
Maxtor Diamond 9Plus HD 80Gb 7200rpm
Gainward golden sample 6800GT @ 400/1100
currently back on Forceware 61.77

This rig gets me 12165 3DMark03 points. About 600 better on 67.03 with a slight IQ loss.

What settings would you recommend and what kinda performance do you think I'll get. Personally I 'm leaning towards 1600 x 1200 without AA and 8 AF. Dunno what Trilinear Filtering does. All other settings @ high. HDR is not a must for me, good framerates ARE however. Do you reckon my rig can pull an average of 40 to 60 f/ps on the settings I described ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's in the Shader Model options. I imagine there will be features you can toggle for 2.0, but for cards that support 3.0, look at the settings screens above. Where it says HDR rendering Tone mapping, Parallax Mapping, etc, these can be toggled individually. So if you don't care for soft shadows, but want paralax mapping, you're not stuck with it. You can turn any of the Shader Model features off or on. This can't be done with 1.1 since it's the base line, but I would imagine that for 2.0 enabled cards, users will be able to toggle HDR rendering, and soft shadows, this way if they don't care about one or both, they can get the improved pixel shader accuracy of SM2.0, but without the expence of using the newer features.

As far as your system is concerned, I hoenstly don't know. You will certainly get better performance than I, but by how much, I haven't any idea. Without HDR, and any IQ filtering, it's possible you could crank up the resolution beyond 1280s, but this game to be extremely GPU intensive. More so than most, I would assume, since I see dramatic drops in performance at the 1024 mark, instead of higher, which means even my older CPU isn't the bottle neck. Doubt it's the vmem limitations, either, since a level loads up in under a few seconds, don't experience ANY sudden stuttering as resources are loaded on the fly, so I would think that the GPU wouldn't get overloaded at such low resolutions. Could be something peculiar with my setup, though. I'll see what I can come up with.

For everyone who still doesn't see any difference, I meant to give a comparison of features at the same resolutions...

The following images are links. Open them in different windows to tab back and forth, if you need.

Here is another "Xbox" quality image. 640x480 resolution, low quality textures/shadows, and Shader Model 1.1.
http://img223.exs.cx/img223/4378/xbox640lowquality45wj.jpg (http://img223.exs.cx/img223/4378/xbox640lowquality45wj.jpg)


Here is a "PC" quality image. 640x480 reolution. High quality textures, shadows, maxed AF, and AA, running with all SM3.0 features enabled (HDR, Tone Mapping, Parallax Mapping, and Soft Shadows.
http://img224.exs.cx/img224/3828/640highquality15fi.jpg (http://img224.exs.cx/img224/3828/640highquality15fi.jpg)

Notice how high lights are MUCH more vivid? There is much more detail on the stone railing. The highlight on the cannon (it's almost a straight line on the bottom left of both screens) is MUCH more realistic looking. Banding doesn't occur on the wall Sam's back is against. Color depth in general just seems MUCH greater. Don't get me wrong, everything is rather subtle. It's night and day to me, but that's not to say either look horrible. BOTH look phenominal. In fact, I sometimes perfer the more subdued color pallete of the visuals WITHOUT HDR, but the increased pixel shader accuracy of SM2.0 and 3.0 greatly improves the videlity of spectral highlights. At higher resolutions, this becomes and even more dramatic IQ improvement. So it can be sidestepped a bit by the Xbox. That's not necessarily something to be proud of, since (as far as I'm concerned) the game only looks more and more incredible as resolutions go up, but it fairs a little better at 640x480 than a PC might.

If anyone still doesn't see it, it's no big deal. It's entirely subjective, differences are fairly subtle, and I had no intention of slighting the Xbox. I just wanted to illustrate, as best I could the differences between the two so everyone can make a more informed decission about which version of the game is right for them.

Short of the answer is, unless you ALREADY HAVE a really really kick *** computer, or was planning on getting one anyway, then just get an xbox. The differences are too slight to be worth the difference of some 800 dollars.

PS... EAX is freakin' HORRIBLE on PC as well. ARG! It's one of the worst environmental audio implimentations I've encounered. So again, Xbox users won't have to screw around with this sort of non-sense. It sounds and looks good, right out of the box.

[black ops freak]

nice. Very nice. Can't see TOO much of a difference, but nice.

[HarkoninVSC]

Actually there is a huge difference I'm looking at both right now one on my PC (6800 ultra AMD 64 3700+ 1024 Mushkin dual channel memory) with Vid settings maxed with all options on high and resolution at 1024 x 768 and the Xbox version on my TV. The difference is night and day. I actually posted some screens from the multi play before and the differences in that were pretty clear as well.

Now Im not saying the Xbox looks bad by any means but a console will never be able to match a high end PC in visual quality its jus tnot possible hardware wise. Both versions look excellent but for the bleeding edge gamers the PC is much more breathetaking.

[Bathazar2005]

I have an x800 pro.
Does this card supprt HDR and SM3.0?

[TheBrokenDog]

I imagine that it will support HDR, but it will NOT support SM3.0. That is largely a non-issue, however. The difference between SM2.0b (which ATi X800 series support) and 3.0 is Parallax Mapping. Thus I am under the impression the only feature you will be missing out on is a rather ugly one. Depends on the way Ubi wrote their pixel shaders, however. Since 2.0 isn't an option currently, there's no way to know for certain what difference there will be, or if 2.0 will even be an option.

[SplinterCell_37]

my opinion: they both ROCK! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[Bathazar2005]

ok, as long as ati supports the HDR for this game I am happy. Parallax mapping doesnt have a profound difference.

[Nightmarecast24]

Actually the one representing the Xbox is inaccurate, the light is more vibrant than that, I am looking at it right now and it's more vibrant than that picture.

[Bathazar2005]

So I have an ati x800 pro.
Will I be able to use HDR?
thanks

[SikoraB]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nightmarecast24:
I seriously see no difference between PC and Xbox versions.

I may be blind but if there is a difference then I cannot see it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, very nice comparison, you should work at IGN.com

But I, like NMC24, CAN'T! See the difference? If there is any, it's so small that I don't care at all... I'm going to enjoy the game, just as much as those on the PC, maybe a little more, because I get split-screen MUHAHA! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[cooldude6681]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SikoraB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nightmarecast24:
I seriously see no difference between PC and Xbox versions.

I may be blind but if there is a difference then I cannot see it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, very nice comparison, you should work at IGN.com

But I, like NMC24, CAN'T! See the difference? If there is any, it's so small that I don't care at all... I'm going to enjoy the game, just as much as those on the PC, maybe a little more, because I get split-screen MUHAHA! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm going to enjoy it more because I don't get split-screenhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Knot3D]

Very nice PC screens. 1024x768, 16xAF, All ingame options maxxed, HDR, VDM, High resolution SHadows, Soft Shadows, ect.. ect..

http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showpost.php?p=835712&postcount=1

[I.S.F-Dixxhead]

I just hope they implement a 2.0 Shader... Also they should use the ati shadow mapping... it sucks if the cpu has to do all the shadows http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Harris123]

I dont see much diifferent http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

[Bathazar2005]

Im really upset that there is no HDR for ATI users.

[Terrax213]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nightmarecast24:
Actually the one representing the Xbox is inaccurate, the light is more vibrant than that, I am looking at it right now and it's more vibrant than that picture. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes .. the Xbox version looks better than that. Granted, it's not quite as crisp as the top notch PC pics BrokenDog posted, which I do see an increase in overall quality between the settings, but it (Xbox resolution) does look sharper when you see the Xbox version in person.

[I.S.F-Dixxhead]

its just because your playing it on a TV, the monitor shows it more detailed (and has no motion blur) so you see it more evident http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Drayvn]

Guys, whoever has an X800 or above, ive actually got an X850XT-PE dont worry about all the SM3 options you can choose in the game.

If you look in your main file for SCCT /System/

Click SplinterCell3 the config file.

Have to go just over half way down, youll notice this

ParallaxMapping=(whatever number)
HDR=(again a number)
HQSoftShadows=(and a number again)

For some reason even when you cant choose SM2 or SM2b which is an ATi specific shader model, all those options have a number 1 to them, meaning they are all enabled, well they are for me, and im pretty certain they are for any X800 user. And from those screenshots generously contributed with SM3 it looks like they have only used SM3 for performance use rather than for detail or quality, and the options above can be enabled, and if they arent for you, try enabling them urself.

Hope this all helps.

[Bathazar2005]

Yes! thankyou so much
*writes down*

[Bathazar2005]

Oh and what are the max numbers for parallax mapping, HDR, etc?
Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[I.S.F-Dixxhead]

This is completly impossible! Shader Model 1.1 cant even generate HDR's...

[Str82yoDome]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bathazar2005:
So I have an ati x800 pro.
Will I be able to use HDR?
thanks <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of Course!!

[Drayvn]

Bathazar2005 the max numbers are just 1 and 0

1 for enable and 0 for disable

I.S.F-Dixxhead, your quite wrong there, SM3 doesnt REQUIRE HDR, Soft Shadows or Parallax Mapping to run. Its a feature of DX9c.

HL2 is getting HDR, and already uses Soft Shadows. That doesnt support SM3 only DX9c and up to SM2.

[Bathazar2005]

Ok, how do you find the config file?

[Bathazar2005]

The SCCT/System file doesnt contain the config file.
Where do I find it?

[cooldude6681]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bathazar2005:
The SCCT/System file doesnt contain the config file.
Where do I find it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>don't have the demo yet, but in previous SC's it's been called Default.ini, I'm pretty sure.

[Bathazar2005]

There is nothing in the system file.
Is that normal?

[Bathazar2005]

Drayvn, first of all there is no SCCT/System/ file in my main SCTT demo folder.
Also, there is no config file in my main demo folder.
Any help would be appreciated.
(P.S. the official demo should have a config file, in easy access, right?)

[Drayvn]

Well i found it very easy. This is where i found it.

C:\JRC Games\Ubisoft\Demo\Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell 3 - Chaos Theory\System

Thats where it should be and there is a file called SplinterCell3 which is marked as a config file, it should in fact be sitting right next to the exe file for the game.

Hope this helps

[Bathazar2005]

I found the config file, changed the HDR setting to 1, but I see no difference in the game.
Do I need to set HDR higher, turn off AA, or change some other settings?
Also, why doesnt this game support sm2.0b?
(Hopefully the final game will)
Please help, thanks.

[Bathazar2005]

bump

[KU_]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knot3D:
Very nice PC screens. 1024x768, 16xAF, All ingame options maxxed, HDR, VDM, High resolution SHadows, Soft Shadows, ect.. ect..

http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showpost.php?p=835712&postcount=1 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A thing I noticed in there, and my demo also. Look at the picture third to the top row. AA does not seem to be in good use as you can see the "jaggies" on the bridge. And HDR is a performance hog. Soft shadows are nice, but I look dark shadows like Doom 3.

[simulacra]

There is no AA in the demo, if you turn it on you lose performance but there's no difference in looks.
I hope this demo is an old build of the game, because what we see in the PC demo is in no way releaseable...

[KU_]

Ok, figured. I believe this is from the CES back in Janurary. I hope they add AA in the full version.

[HarkoninVSC]

For NVIDIA users download and install NVHArdPage, enable your level of AA and it will be forced ingame.

[KU_]

What about ATI users?

[Bathazar2005]

I just hope that sm2.0 is supported in the final game. (HDR for ATI users.)